Wireless charging, 1.9kw @ 1.3MHz Go Disney

[kd6oji]

Well, seems the engineers at Disney have found a way to do wireless charging and power.
http://www.iflscience.com/technology/disney-researchers-make-wireless-power-transfer-breakthrough/

Seems legit, but 1.9kw @ 1.3Mhz in an aluminum faraday cage sounds a bit microwavish to me, lol.
and 1.9kw input to get a few low power devices to charge? inefficient.

Just laymen observation, of course, and I can light a fluorescent tube with a 4W CB radio by placing the tube near the antenna, but it's not a great device by any means.

Hope there aren't anyone using the copper poles for other endeavors lest they get bitten by the RF bug.

[Halcyon]

I did read this arcticle too. Still a few obstacles to overcome. I guess one of the biggest issue has to do with safety. There is a minimum safe distance you need to be away from that transmitter.

[Brumby]

I raised an eyebrow with the statement "Completely safe", just because it complies with what someone has written down - from past experience.

However, as far as I am aware, that past experience does not include data on deliberate immersion of living organisms into fields of such power and for extended periods.

That aside, it has always been a topic of interest to me.

[Ampera]

I did read this arcticle too. Still a few obstacles to overcome. I guess one of the biggest issue has to do with safety. There is a minimum safe distance you need to be away from that transmitter.

They also have that for Ubiquiti APs.

[Halcyon]

I did read this arcticle too. Still a few obstacles to overcome. I guess one of the biggest issue has to do with safety. There is a minimum safe distance you need to be away from that transmitter.

They also have that for Ubiquiti APs.

I have 3 UAP-AC-PRO access points dotted around the house, including in my bedroom. I'm not worried about that. Their higher power and 24GHz gear, yep, wouldn't want to live too close to that.

As for the 1.9kW wireless charging experience mentioned by the OP, no way I'd touch it let alone come too close to it. It's something you only do once. RF burns aren't nice.

Here's an example from a 50kW AM transmitter:

[vk6zgo]

Well, seems the engineers at Disney have found a way to do wireless charging and power.
http://www.iflscience.com/technology/disney-researchers-make-wireless-power-transfer-breakthrough/

Seems legit, but 1.9kw @ 1.3Mhz in an aluminum faraday cage sounds a bit microwavish to me, lol.
and 1.9kw input to get a few low power devices to charge? inefficient.

Just laymen observation, of course, and I can light a fluorescent tube with a 4W CB radio by placing the tube near the antenna, but it's not a great device by any means.

Hope there aren't anyone using the copper poles for other endeavors lest they get bitten by the RF bug.

"Gawrsh, Mickey, that sounds like bullshit!"

[fubar.gr]

I did read this arcticle too. Still a few obstacles to overcome. I guess one of the biggest issue has to do with safety. There is a minimum safe distance you need to be away from that transmitter.

They also have that for Ubiquiti APs.

I have 3 UAP-AC-PRO access points dotted around the house, including in my bedroom. I'm not worried about that. Their higher power and 24GHz gear, yep, wouldn't want to live too close to that.

As for the 1.9kW wireless charging experience mentioned by the OP, no way I'd touch it let alone come too close to it. It's something you only do once. RF burns aren't nice.

Here's an example from a 50kW AM transmitter:

Amazing way to listen to an AM station! You get a free plasma speaker too

[vk3yedotcom]

1.3 MHz is in the AM broadcast band.  It wouldn't meet EMC specifications so even if it did work it wouldn't be able to be sold.

Even in countries that have stopped AM broadcasting there are likely to be harmonics which could interfere with other radio devices.

[MrW0lf]

When I started messing with electric stuff dad (former pro E tech) warned me - in the military they had only one young guy completely bald - it was radio technician
Also it is scientifically proven fact that with nearby high voltage powerlines child leukemia rates spike.
However they were puzzled why rates do not vary as square of distance (mag. field), but are linear instead.
IMHO what was not taken into account in this research - powerlines often act as wideband RF noise source.

[fubar.gr]

I think the link between leukemia and HV lines has been debunked.

[MrW0lf]

I think the link between leukemia and HV lines has been debunked.

Also radiation contaminated food is suddenly ok in Japan after Fukushima etc.
Whatever status quo is made norm and declared safe, theres profit in it.
From USSR times around here I remember many public safety regulations which
were instantly demolished in '91 because stood in the way making profit...

[linux-works]

From USSR times around here I remember many public safety regulations which
were instantly demolished in '91 because stood in the way making profit...

trump likes this idea very much....

;(

[Halcyon]

When I started messing with electric stuff dad (former pro E tech) warned me - in the military they had only one young guy completely bald - it was radio technician
Also it is scientifically proven fact that with nearby high voltage powerlines child leukemia rates spike.
However they were puzzled why rates do not vary as square of distance (mag. field), but are linear instead.
IMHO what was not taken into account in this research - powerlines often act as wideband RF noise source.

You do realise cancer itself doesn't cause baldness? It's the chemotherapy that causes that. Maybe the guy was bald from all the stress :-)

As someone has already pointed out the living near HV power lines does not correlate to higher rates of cancer. If I had to guess, it's the quality (or more to the point lack thereof) of food these days. The amount of processed crap people eat is astonishing, even in a country like Australia where fresh produce and good quality dairy and meat is widely available for a reasonable price.

[Alex Eisenhut]

Paul Brodeur, is that you?

[vk6zgo]

Here's an example from a 50kW AM transmitter:

The Bullshit is strong in this one!

We are supposed to infer that the mast involved is connected to an active 50kW AM Transmitter.
This is not so, for the following reasons:-

(1)
The antenna is initially shorted, then when the cable is removed, an arc appears.

A Transmitter seeing a short on the feeder will  turn off for a few seconds, then try again, & if the short is still there, lock itself down, requiring manual restoration.
That being so, it cannot supply power after being shorted for some time.

(2)
The arc which occurs is too small, & the "singing arc" too low level & noisy.

When I worked at a 50kW site, a favourite trick was to place a short  cct between two nominally earthed points, the mast hut downpipe & the chainlink fence surrounding the mast base.
We got a nice "singing arc", (a bit louder & cleaner than the video), but it was eventually banned by the Boss, as we had burnt too much off the downpipe!

On another occasion, as I was returning from doing "mast hut readings", a distant lightning bolt caused one of the "horngaps" at the mast base to arc over.
The RF maintained the arc until it travelled up the horn & self-extinguished.
During this time, the "singing arc" bellowed out the Football results at a similar level & quality to a large PA system----much louder than in the video.

My suggestion is that the mast he is playing with, is in fact,disconnected from any Transmitter, & the RF appearing at the feeder is pickup of the signal from the active antenna.

[Halcyon]

Here's one from Australia. I particularly love the bit where he said "I certainly wouldn't be standing here if it was running, unlike those numpty Russians with their plants".

https://youtu.be/2MPtdHcm4i8

[Red Squirrel]

Interesting thread.  I would have figured that a AM tower being grounded  would make it safe to touch and not able to cause burns like that.  Is it basically the transmitter coupling with the tower so when you touch it, some induced voltage just takes a different path (you) to ground?  I guess when they climb the tower do they have to just jump on the first steps, then they're ok?  Or I guess they would shut down the transmitter?

[Red Squirrel]

Hmm would have figured that simply being cemented in the tower would still be a half decent ground.  I guess if the cement is dry it basically just acts as an isolator.  Probably gets interesting when it rains lol.

[SeanB]

The tower for AM and shortwave is the actual antenna, not something they bolt onto it. Thus they have to isolate it, and there is a buried copper mesh ground plane as big as the tower down there to act as the other half of the dipole antenna. The lighting has an isolation transformer with AM parallel traps to remove the transmit  frequency, so they can feed 115VAC or 230VAC at around 10A up the tower for the light feeds.

These as you see are in shielded conduits, and the lighting is designed to have long life, easily lasting 10 years between relamping, even with the 300W incandescent lamps they use. Lamps are on 24/7/365, and are run with a current monitor to detect low current from failed lamps, and generally each lamp position has 2 lamps installed for redundancy, except at the topmost position where they often install 4 or more. As it costs a lot of money to both turn the tower off for a day, plus send a tower crew up for a single lamp failure, having multiple lamps pays off, just change all when half are dead, or during regular inspection. LED lamps though are now very common, though the current draw is lower and thus you need to adjust the warning systems, but they still install redundant ones.

Want to climb one, just be really fit, not afraid of heights and not get sick from the swinging motions of the tower, even in apparently still air.

[Marco]

Why use a pole? Can't you just build the cage and inside the cage make part of the ceiling a separate conductor with the modulated voltage? Moves the concentrated part of the electric field out of the way.

[MrW0lf]

As someone has already pointed out the living near HV power lines does not correlate to higher rates of cancer.

Says who? Authors of some other special "debunking study"? In true science noone has final truth. Id say subject is open to discussion as any other. When subject is suddenly "closed" or "debunked" usually there is some "greater interest" at play.

I did actual environmental survey when looking for new house. First found suitable place located about 800m from powerlines. But these were two of them located in V shaped manner surrounding property. Recorded general background level about ~80nT of 50Hz AC magnetic field varying quite logically in relation to lines. This was same as in some apartment with totally incompetent electrical installation (lighting phase/neutral in different wires on opposite sides of room). In average apartment with competent install level is 2nT or less. To put things in perspective ~80nT is usually recorded at 50cm distance from working high power electrical appliance (oven, heater etc). Would you live and raise children while basically sitting on top of high power heater all the time? Or hassle with nasty 50Hz background in lab just looking for any conducting object to chew on? Not to mention wideband RF noise flood...

BTW I initially discovered that "incompetent electrical install" because got quite nasty electrical shocks from shielded CAT cable just laying on the floor. Measured 60V AC... Dunno what current was, but enough to cause nasty painful "buzz". Essentially apartment was 1 huge transformer loop Think there was large E-field also because measured mag field not enough to cause mess like that.

[SeanB]

Why use a pole? Can't you just build the cage and inside the cage make part of the ceiling a separate conductor with the modulated voltage? Moves the concentrated part of the electric field out of the way.

How do you support the cage? Making the tower as part of the antenna saves a lot of money, and you need a support structure in any case.

For towers at the base you have a spark gap, so that a lightning hit ( they are excellent lightning rods) is just shunted to ground via the counterpoise, and the transmitter sees the pulse of power, turns the RF power down for a half second and the resumes again, so the station has a tiny blip in sound in a storm, but is still on the air. That is why you have power transmitter valves, they do not mind the 20kv pulse being applied to the anode for a few milliseconds after it has traversed the power filtering and harmonic traps on the output.

you oftem also have other services on the same hot tower ( like TV transmitter antennas, FM radio antennas and now cellular stations, and these are simply done by putting all the stuff inside the steel girder stage aside from the antennas, putting in another really big power isolator feed for them and then having the data come up and down using fibre optic cabling, which generally does not mind the RF field much. You just use really well shielded cabinets up there, with it makinbg a Faraday cage inside for the equipment, and the RF on the outer surface does not penetrate, though you really have to make good RF joins at connectors.

[Halcyon]

As someone has already pointed out the living near HV power lines does not correlate to higher rates of cancer.

Says who? Authors of some other special "debunking study"? In true science noone has final truth. Id say subject is open to discussion as any other. When subject is suddenly "closed" or "debunked" usually there is some "greater interest" at play.

I'll let you do some homework, take your pick of any number of Government, university, medical and private organisations all around the world who have conducted very reputable studies (including the Cancer Council in Australia). No one has absolutely ruled it out 100% (just like no one can 100% rule out Jebus/God), but I'll sooner die of old age than cancer "caused by" living in the vicinity of power lines.

I did actual environmental survey when looking for new house. First found suitable place located about 800m from powerlines. But these were two of them located in V shaped manner surrounding property. Recorded general background level about ~80nT of 50Hz AC magnetic field varying quite logically in relation to lines. This was same as in some apartment with totally incompetent electrical installation (lighting phase/neutral in different wires on opposite sides of room). In average apartment with competent install level is 2nT or less. To put things in perspective ~80nT is usually recorded at 50cm distance from working high power electrical appliance (oven, heater etc).

I have absolutely no doubt that your measurements and figures are correct. But so what? You're stating the obvious, yes, there is background electromagnetic noise... and... ? It's like I'm waiting for a punchline to a joke that never arrives.

I think you're trying to confuse us with figures in attempt to back up your theory, but all you're doing is quoting numbers. You draw no line between your "survey" and what you're insinuating. I'll throw some figures at you: We had 2.0mm of rain yesterday, my desk lamp has a colour temperature of about 3000K, there is a 80% chance I'm going to have Banh Mi for lunch today and the fuel tank in my car is about 95% full. What does all that mean? Absolutely nothing.

Would you live and raise children while basically sitting on top of high power heater all the time? Or hassle with nasty 50Hz background in lab just looking for any conducting object to chew on? Not to mention wideband RF noise flood...

A high power "heater", no, no I would not. I like things on the cooler side. Power lines on the other hand, apart from the eyesore, I'd have no problems with whatsoever. Pretty much every room of my house, office, lab, the street I walk down every day is buzzing with 50Hz background noise. I think you'll find it hard pressed finding an area that isn't. It has no effect on me or any of the things I do every day.

In fact, 50Hz buzzing is responsible for this lovely cup of coffee I just made. "Thank you 50Hz buzzing, I heart you."

Honestly, try to use the "scientific method" a little more in your thinking.

[MrW0lf]

Honestly, try to use the "scientific method" a little more in your thinking.

Well technocrats usually do not bother, they just say it "has been debunked somewhere". So I do not bother as well. I just say there are lots of studies confirming that organism with electrical comms system (humans) has limits to its error correcting algorithms and only fool would push them. It a bit like analog TV vs digital. With primitive analog TV you have instant indication of compromised signal. With digital you usually have little or no warning (despite error correcting doing hard work) and then it's all pixels. Sort of like cancer. Due to unique education system where biologist effectively knows nothing about electrical engineering and vice versa it's unlike that complex understanding will arrive soon Reminds me of those excellent heat resistant asbestos brake pads, all made to strict regulations

[Red Squirrel]

I grew up with a humming transformer sitting right in my yard.  I turned out fine.  I think?  The voices in my head tell me I'm ok.