Work in electronics until death?

[VK3DRB]

Here in Australia the politicians are pushing to raise the pension age to 70, saying "the country cannot afford to pay the pensions". (Strange how they can afford their own big pay rises, and bloated pensions after leaving politics.) They see it better for the elderly to pay taxes rather than being paid as some compensation for all their taxpaying over many decades.

Bricklayers, plumbers, carpenters etc say their bodies start giving out physically around 60 - they cannot be expected to work like a young bloke up until 70. This creates a big problem for them, especially those who have not stored up a large sum of money to live on.

Can electronic engineers, technicians and software programmers still work effectively beyond the age of 60 to as late as 70? Or have most burned out by then?

Are they still as smart at 70 as they were at, say, 40? What concerns me is old people find it more difficult to learn new concepts than young people (eg: new languages). I am in my 50's. What scares the crap out of me is if I start slowing down mentally as the years progress.

Another concern is the very common practice of ageism, where older people are illegally discriminated against in getting a job, or even in the workplace where they are employed. I personally have not experienced this, but I know of others who have.

[NiHaoMike]

The famous "analog superstars" Jim Williams and Bob Pease were doing very well at that age. It helps that most electronics work isn't very physically demanding, yet paradoxically, the lack of physical work contributes to worse health in old age.

[KJDS]

The pension age of 65 was set in Britain at a time when average life expectancy was 67.

That life expectancy has now increased to 87 and we're only just starting to bump up the retirement age.

Society needs to get better at either working out how to work for longer or for saving for our old age. Whilst I don't expect the typical bricklayer to carry on laying bricks forever, I suspect that most have other useful skills.

[EEVblog]

Here in Australia the politicians are pushing to raise the pension age to 70, saying "the country cannot afford to pay the pensions". (Strange how they can afford their own big pay rises, and bloated pensions after leaving politics.)

The shit thing, they can do that well well before retirement age.
I can't recall the exact time they have to stay in office to get their lifetime pension, but that 20yo who won a federal seat at the last election can likely retire at 30 with a lifetime pension. It's disgusting.

[EEVblog]

Society needs to get better at either working out how to work for longer or for saving for our old age.

Here in Oz we have compulsory superannuation, currently set to 10% of your income (usually paid on top of salary by your employer) per year. I think that is rising to 12% or so.
Only problem with the system is that it's run by private companies who mostly invest your money in shares unless you specifically opt-out of that. So it's possible to lose a huge chunk of it at any time, and they take their couple of percent cut every year regardless whether they make you money or lose your money. There is no option for a fixed interest rate government guaranteed system which is what is really needed.

[Gribo]

And who will pay that interest? the younger generation, the same ones who are having fewer and fewer children? We have exactly the same situation here in Israel with the same corrupt politicians and public workers having a lifetime guaranteed pension off the state's budget. This is simply theft by the state.

[David_AVD]

Here in Oz we have compulsory superannuation, currently set to 10% of your income (usually paid on top of salary by your employer) per year.

Slight correction;  It started out at 9% and went up to 9.25% July 1st 2013.  It is due to rise in the future as you say.  From memory, super is payable to any employee earning more than $400 a month.

I was advised many years ago not to assume that there will be any pension available for me when I retire.  I guess there will always be a very basic safety net, but it won't be enough to have any real life. (except for those that rort the system)

[nihilism]

I'm hoping i'll be at least semi retired by the time i'm 55 (self funded), i'm 31 now. If that doesn't work out i guess i should start planning my political career soon.

[SL4P]

Salaries and entitlements are the crux of the matter. As always - follow the money.

I'd suggest that a maximum income span is mandated - regardless of politics, public service or private enterprise.

I remember in the 60's and 70's that it was said if we paid more to our politicians, we'd have better management of public funds... how did that work out?

That includes salary, benefits, commissions, shares and other forms of remuneration.
Any excessive 'over the top' benefit is only payable upon permanent retirement at minimum age 60.

The span - something like 20x between the lowest and highest paid in an organisation.  No sneaking around that by splitting a company into the worker's division ($20kpa - $60kpa), and the 'management' division! (That would still allow top management to earn as much as $60K x 20 (=$1.2M), but nothing like the multi-millions earned by the slackers today.

Now that means even the mail-room clerk in a stockbroking firm will determine the maximum that can be earned by those in mahogany row.

[fcb]

The pension age of 65 was set in Britain at a time when average life expectancy was 67.

That life expectancy has now increased to 87 and we're only just starting to bump up the retirement age.

Society needs to get better at either working out how to work for longer or for saving for our old age. Whilst I don't expect the typical bricklayer to carry on laying bricks forever, I suspect that most have other useful skills.

There is no retirement age in the UK anymore. Some companies (who can justify it) can mandate a retirement age though (airlines, transport, etc..) - but we scrapped a mandatory retirement age.

There is a minimum age to draw a UK state pension though (68 at present for most), private pensions are separate issue altogether.

[EEVblog]

I guess there will always be a very basic safety net, but it won't be enough to have any real life.

The pension has never provided any decent standard of living, nothing has changed there.

[SeanB]

Here it is a state pension. Can you live on $100 per month? No car, no medical ( state medical facilities are barely functioning, and basically they are "Waiting to Exhale" writ large) cover for you, and definitely no house unless you are living in an "informal settlement" and no electricity, water or water borne sewage indoors.

[Rerouter]

at least in Australia i wonder what would happen if the ministerial pension was cut back to a fixed 1.5 - 2x the minimum wage, (they would never agree to 1x) they keep on crying poor about money, but how many fat paychecks are there towards the top of the ladder?

[Tris20]

Yet youth unemployment is at a record high...

Something's gotta give.



Also, after graduation, I intend to avoid all pension schemes and just put money aside myself when I'm ready. Over the years I'll hopefully earn enough to own a house (wishful thinking I know) and then mortgage that if I can no longer work. It won't be long before they start teaching our kids about pensions in history classrooms.

[Legion]

The pension age of 65 was set in Britain at a time when average life expectancy was 67.

That life expectancy has now increased to 87 and we're only just starting to bump up the retirement age.

Society needs to get better at either working out how to work for longer or for saving for our old age. Whilst I don't expect the typical bricklayer to carry on laying bricks forever, I suspect that most have other useful skills.

Life expectancy can be a misleading metric. Most of that 20 year difference is borne out of lower infant mortality rates. If you look at life expectancy after 40 you'll see human life spans haven't really improved.

When I was growing up we were told how the baby boomers would be retiring when we got into the workforce and that would create a lot of jobs for us. But what a lie that was. Between tanking the economy and using a multi level marketing style pension system it's no wonder people have to keep working instead of retiring.

It's hard for me to understand how people across many countries came to the conclusion that a state run pension program could work. You're investing your money over the course of 10+ administrations. 10+ administrations full of politicians who's only goal is to be re-elected and will gladly pull the rug out from under you if it suits them. And they have the power to make law. I wouldn't invest with a bank that had the power to draft a new contract in the middle of an investment. "Due to adverse economic conditions, your mortgage has been extended to a 100 year amortization. But good news, your payments remain the same!"

[KJDS]

The pension age of 65 was set in Britain at a time when average life expectancy was 67.

That life expectancy has now increased to 87 and we're only just starting to bump up the retirement age.

Society needs to get better at either working out how to work for longer or for saving for our old age. Whilst I don't expect the typical bricklayer to carry on laying bricks forever, I suspect that most have other useful skills.

Life expectancy can be a misleading metric. Most of that 20 year difference is borne out of lower infant mortality rates. If you look at life expectancy after 40 you'll see human life spans haven't really improved.

A quick look at the ONS website states that most deaths in 1980-82 were at 77, whereas in 2010-12 that had risen to 85. That's seven extra years in three decades.

Source:- http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_356439.pdf

[zapta]

Also, after graduation, I intend to avoid all pension schemes and just put money aside myself when I'm ready. Over the years I'll hopefully earn enough to own a house (wishful thinking I know) and then mortgage that if I can no longer work. It won't be long before they start teaching our kids about pensions in history classrooms.

Starting to think about retirement at young age is very wise, compound interest works for you. Not relying on Big Government is even wiser.

There are some schemes though that are worth consideration. For example here in the US we have 401K/IRA where you invest pre tax money and the employer partially matches your contribution.  It has higher management fees than normal but is considered a good choice in general.

For people that are looking for a solid long term investment strategy I highly recommend this book http://amzn.com/0399535993. Luckily I read it before the  2008 crisis.  (it's US centric, don't know how applicable to other countries).

[tszaboo]

I dont expect any government to pay me my retirement (although the country I currently live is probably stupid enough to pay me). But I have a very aggressive savings plan, and honestly, right now, I enjoy building stuff, later I would rather sit on the upper level of the ladder, making those bad decisions. There is only so much time, I can accomplish something. I see older engineers having trouble keeping up with the computers, phones and new measurement equipment, yet doing any real, original work.
So no, there is no way, I do electronics until death.

[VK3DRB]

at least in Australia i wonder what would happen if the ministerial pension was cut back to a fixed 1.5 - 2x the minimum wage, (they would never agree to 1x) they keep on crying poor about money, but how many fat paychecks are there towards the top of the ladder?

I wish we were this gutsy... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/violent-protests-in-france-over-retirement-age/ And that was only raising the retirement age from 60 to 62.

The only thing our politicians agree here unanimously on is their own pay rises. They tell lies they don't agree with their whopping pay rise way above that of rest of us, but they all vote YES and say "we just accept the recommendation of their 'independent' tribunal". This is usually timed around the holiday season so their pay rise barely gets a mention in the media and people can't organise a protest. It has been going on since 2007. They shout "wage restraint!" but not for themselves, as they punish single mothers with their cruel welfare cuts.

The justification a recent ex-PM gave for why politicians get a (very) generous retirement fund is upon leaving politics is they might need the money because a life in politics is not guaranteed. A LIFE IN ELECTRONIC ENGINEERING IS NOT GUARANTEED EITHER, nor for that matter any profession.

Why aren't there engineers and technicians in politics? I am not sure skilled electronics professionals would want to work with technically incompetent people who boast they don't know how the use a laptop. Electronics people generally don't move the needle on the meter near as high as a politician.

I think after 40 years of work, a person has a right to retire on a government paid pension irrespective of his other income as a reward for services rendered to the public purse of all those years.

I don't give a rats arse if we are all living longer. I probably won't. But what is good for the rest of us should be good enough for the politicians. Those who make the rules should lead by example.

[VK3DRB]

Salaries and entitlements are the crux of the matter. As always - follow the money.

The span - something like 20x between the lowest and highest paid in an organisation.  No sneaking around that by splitting a company into the worker's division ($20kpa - $60kpa), and the 'management' division! (That would still allow top management to earn as much as $60K x 20 (=$1.2M), but nothing like the multi-millions earned by the slackers today.

Now that means even the mail-room clerk in a stockbroking firm will determine the maximum that can be earned by those in mahogany row.

http://www.aflcio.org/Corporate-Watch/CEO-Pay-and-You

A really good, but shocking documentary is called "Inequality For All" by Robert Reich.

[nuhamind2]

Why aren't there engineers and technicians in politics?..............

Why are you removing your comment about engineer have too much integrity and honesty? It actually corrent isn't 
The only president who do any good to my country is an engineer and currently the next president candidate who considered to win presidential election is an engineer (It is the year of election here).
I should learn how to became politician as soon as possible 
Dave should make a Politic 101 for engineer video 

[TMM]

Yet youth unemployment is at a record high...

Doesn't mean they aren't looking for jobs.

Unemployment is at a record high in every age group.

[KJDS]

I think after 40 years of work, a person has a right to retire on a government paid pension irrespective of his other income as a reward for services rendered to the public purse of all those years.

I don't think that this is a government issue. If someone wishes to save and put money aside so they can stop working at a convenient age then they are welcome to do so.

[nctnico]

IMHO there are two problems with pension systems: the people currently working pay for the people who are retired even when they say this isn't the case. Secondly the premiums are too low. A few decades ago the stock value was sky rocketing allowing the pension funds to make high returns on their investments. Those days are over and are very unlikely to return. The best thing to do is safe money yourself.

[FJV]

IMHO there are two problems with pension systems: the people currently working pay for the people who are retired even when they say this isn't the case. Secondly the premiums are too low. A few decades ago the stock value was sky rocketing allowing the pension funds to make high returns on their investments. Those days are over and are very unlikely to return. The best thing to do is safe money yourself.

Actually in the Netherlands we are waaaayyyyy richer than anytime during the 1980's, but somehow we cannot pay for retirement anything near of what it used to be. (way richer even when corrected for inflation)

Basically a few people are rigging the system in their favor and Mr silly, the taxpayer, is paying for their huge fortunes. All this crap we're currently going through has been predicted in detail during the 1990's.



The majority of the population can look forward to waiting at least 30 years for a pay raise while getting their pay after infation adjustment cut.