Author Topic: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?  (Read 20342 times)

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Online Kjelt

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2019, 07:03:01 pm »
We may have to agree to disagree on the preference of the "average customer".
No problem for me, I am just quoting the outcome of marketing research from a previous company I worked for.
There are always people with other tastes.
Statistics 101 , a single sample/customer does not significantly change the outcome of the average if the sample size was big enough.

Second colour temperature oK says nothing about Lumens. Yes the higher the colourtemperature and fixed Wattage the Lumens will increase but increasing Wattage also increases Lumens.
Mistake nr1 is to place warm white yellowish light but too low Wattage, you are then comparing apples with pears (dutch expression in english probably some other fruit is applicable).
My advice is to place a dimmable Led fixture with enough Lumens and use it at the appropriate levels. You can cut your food excellent with enough Lumens to have good contrast. You don't need 4000K for that. For pro kitchens and workareas 4000K is preferred because it keeps the concentration higher due to the more blueish component in the light where humans have a weakness for. (simply said: reddish/yellowish light people think it is the end of day and go to sleep mode, blueish light people wake up and have better concentration. This is also scientificly proofed and tested and applied in schools and hospitals BTW so don't think I am making this up).

Besides there are many functions in the kitchen, many people besides cooking eat their meal in their kitchen and there is this show/display function.
I am not sure how many people like to enjoy their dinner with 5000K lighting , even worse MacDonald and other fastfood restaurants have used this cold light to make sure customers don't spent too much time there :)
 

Offline nfmax

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2019, 07:11:49 pm »
Quote from: Kjelt link=topic=39664.msg2104429#msg2104429 date=1547020981
Mistake nr1 is to place warm white yellowish light but too low Wattage, you are then comparing apples with pears (dutch expression in english probably some other fruit is applicable).

In (British) English we say "comparing apples with oranges", so it's understandable why it would be different in Dutch :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:13:17 pm by Simon »
 

Online Simon

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2019, 07:14:25 pm »
I have heard people use apples and pears in the UK as well.
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2019, 08:12:08 pm »
Quote from: Kjelt link=topic=39664.msg2104429#msg2104429 date=1547020981
Mistake nr1 is to place warm white yellowish light but too low Wattage, you are then comparing apples with pears (dutch expression in english probably some other fruit is applicable).
In (British) English we say "comparing apples with oranges", so it's understandable why it would be different in Dutch :)
Ah yes, still I am puzzled why, since there are not many orange trees growing in the UK ..........  :) oh well back on topic  ;)
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2019, 08:27:58 pm »
We may have to agree to disagree on the preference of the "average customer".
No problem for me, I am just quoting the outcome of marketing research from a previous company I worked for.
There are always people with other tastes.
Statistics 101 , a single sample/customer does not significantly change the outcome of the average if the sample size was big enough.

Yeah, OK.  I acknowledge my statistical error - three sigma seems so far away.


But I'm still not touching that kitchen light.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2019, 03:01:21 am »
I have heard people use apples and pears in the UK as well.
In English, apples and pears is rhyming slang for stairs. Its not a comparison metaphor. Its only some mainland languages which compare apples with pears.
 

Online Simon

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2019, 03:04:50 am »
Ah yes and knowing me I am going around talking about comparing apples to pears :)
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Offline Edison

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2019, 04:26:27 am »
In the Czech Republic also apples / pears    :blah: :-DD
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Online soldar

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2019, 05:11:40 am »
Yea, we finally found a better technology than CFL and use it to replicate the main defect of CFL, carry on making yellow lights. Personally i suspect that many CFL's marketed as 2700K were below.
I agree with you in general terms. I have recently replaced a lot of CFLs with LED fixtures and the difference is astounding. The CFL were nominally 2K7 while the LED are 4K. The power draw is about the same or slightly less for the LEDs and yet the perception is that there is a lot more light. In the kitchen, the bathrooms, the working are, it feels SO much better and brighter.

But maybe there are places, like the bedroom, where you want to have a more subdued atmosphere when you bring in your date for the first time. That is why I have on the nightstands incandescent lights with dimmers. 

But, yes, we are probably conditioned by our past of incandescent lights and CFLs just replicated that.
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Online Simon

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2019, 05:36:18 am »
Well I landed up with a couple of 2700K 3W bulbs. Whilst i used my bedroom as a study I had a 10W 5500K but recently swapped it with the 3W on the landing so that I could leave it on over chrismas and have some light show in every room to deter breakins. I have not actually bothered to take the 3W 2700K light out of my bedroom yet as the only thing I do there now is sleep I figured I did not need the 10W 5500K bulb. But given my aversion to warmer light as my colour perception is off I must have "daylight" anywhere else and i never have a problem going to sleep even in front of a computer screen that experts recommend we not use for a couple of hours before going to bed.
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Online Nusa

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2019, 06:26:11 am »
Apples and pears are much more closely related than apples and oranges. They all grow on trees, but apples and pears both require a cold weather cycle to produce, while citrus trees only do well in warm climates.
 

Online Simon

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2019, 07:48:02 pm »
To not be comparing apples to apples is something I hear more often
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Offline coppice

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2019, 08:57:32 pm »
To not be comparing apples to apples is something I hear more often
Yeah, I know, but I could care less.  :)

Lots of people hear expressions, don't get the idea, and oddly misstate them.
 

Offline Ducttape

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2019, 03:30:28 am »
This is pretty trivial, but I just thought I'd mention that if you're very far into 'warm' room lighting, then the band colors of a resistor in hand won't match the colors of the bands in a resistor band chart on your monitor. Of course it'd still match a printed out resistor band chart.
 

Online Simon

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2019, 03:40:04 am »
To not be comparing apples to apples is something I hear more often
Yeah, I know, but I could care less.  :)

Lots of people hear expressions, don't get the idea, and oddly misstate them.


There are no rules about these sayings, they change over time based on what the majority prefer to say.
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2019, 05:44:10 am »
We need a more EE version of the saying.

Let's not go comparing scopes with multimeters here.  :P   
 

Online TERRA Operative

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2019, 05:39:31 pm »
According to the white balance setting on my cameras with the white balance card, my bench lighting is about 4100K.
I made sure to use high CRI led strips too, as accurate colour rendition is arguably more important than colour temperature IMO.

Bright, wide-spectrum light means less eye strain in the long run I've found. The absolute colour temperature isn't as important beyond personal preference (within reasonable values).
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2019, 07:29:46 pm »
I made sure to use high CRI led strips too, as accurate colour rendition is arguably more important than colour temperature IMO.
Yes if you are in the fashion , graphical industry or make YT vids.
Otherwise meah. As long as they are real white leds with phosphor not the RGB leds those are horrrible an abonimation for the term white led (and I am not being racist here for the PC crowd).
You're brains compensate perfectly what you were expecting to see.
Try a red can of cocacola and put it in 2200-2700K light, wait two minutes and keep looking.
Now put it in 6000K light and again keep looking for two minutes.
Interesting he?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 07:34:22 pm by Kjelt »
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2019, 06:13:55 am »
Are T8 bulbs considered to have good CRI?  Or is that strictly a LED thing?   Thinking of putting some fixtures in my computer room.  2 dual bulb fixtures should do the trick.  I have a lamp stand with a single LED bulb now but not quite as bright as I'd like it.  I do plan to do some YT stuff in there as well.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2019, 06:17:41 am »
Are T8 bulbs considered to have good CRI?  Or is that strictly a LED thing?   Thinking of putting some fixtures in my computer room.  2 dual bulb fixtures should do the trick.  I have a lamp stand with a single LED bulb now but not quite as bright as I'd like it.  I do plan to do some YT stuff in there as well.
There is no generic rule on CRI. You have to check the datasheet of the bulb for the actual number.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online rdl

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #95 on: January 12, 2019, 06:25:52 am »
Yeah, incandescent and halogen almost always have very good CRI, but you can find fluorescent and LED with either bad or good CRI. It depends on how they are made. You have to check the specifications for which ever ones you are interested in.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #96 on: January 12, 2019, 06:28:54 am »
I like the 11w fluorescent daylight bulbs and I got a couple of them.

They seem to make the room like nice in the dark.
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #97 on: January 12, 2019, 06:59:35 am »
Are T8 bulbs considered to have good CRI?  Or is that strictly a LED thing? 
Depends on the series.
For instance the Philips 9a0 series have very good cri where a = colourtemperature.
So 940 is 4000K , 930 is 3000K
The 8a0 series has less good CRI.
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #98 on: January 12, 2019, 09:04:58 am »
I'm looking to change some of my lighting to lower temp bulbs in hopes that might improve my sleep, which is not very good.  If this is the goal then is 2700K to be preferred to 3000K or is the difference not so significant.  I currently have many LED bulbs for lighting and my workbench has LED strip lighting and all of them are 5000K or higher so the blue light might be playing a role in my sleep problems.

If sleep is an issue what factors play a role?  Assuming you have some lighting that's say, 5000K+ and other lighting at, say 2700K -- how long before bed should the cooler lights be turned off?  A similar problem is related to PC usage as most modern monitors are LED backlit and the color temp tends to be above 5000K -- how long before bed should you shut the PC down to limit blue light problems?  Is there an app or widget that you can use to toggle between two monitor color settings so that near bedtime you can switch to a warmer color?

What are some good brands of 60W and 100W equivalent LED's in the 2700K range that can be purchased on Amazon?


Brian
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #99 on: January 12, 2019, 10:08:13 am »
Lower colour temperature is preferable before sleep. I have two hue bulbs in a fixture in my bedroom and half hour before sleep I put them on very yellowish light and dimmed to low lumens, 15 minutes before sleep I put them on another preference setting making it orange and even lower lumens.
I kind of imitate the sun going down and get sleepier.
Ofcourse you can not read a book anymore and phone ir pad usage is not preferred although they nowadays also have a night setting with lower colourtemperature.

TV or PC is very cold white for good colourrendering, I thought about 6500K, and should be avoided at least an hour before bedtime, it will just upset your biological rhythm.

I am no expert but there must be tens if scientific articles about it.
Google "sleeping and color temperature" and "light and biorythm" that sort of keywords should result in many hits.

Each person is unique so you might want to experiment, write down your light and times before sleeping and next morning how you slept. Find your own optimal lighting formula. Some people are night owls some are early raisers.

The biggest win I myself have gained is with waking up with light with the lightalarmclock. Since I have that my wintermood when awakening is gone. I was always grumpy and miserable when my alarmclock went off in the cold and dark wintermornings. This lightalarm starts with very low red light 20 minutes before time to wake up and goes to bright warm white light when it is time. Works for me.
 


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