EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: tpowell1830 on October 05, 2018, 02:11:38 pm
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Seems that Fran has a lot of things going against her. I have been watching her channel for a couple of years and these crises seem to vex her. Serendipity is a double edged sword and sometimes the writing on the wall is a specific message i.e. in this case it is saying to move out of Philly.
Fran, if you are reading, I wish you well and hope you find a peaceful place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4)
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Not good:
I recon we could crowd source finding a new place for her if she lets us know the budget and requirements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4)
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I saw that. The described situation is historically quite common. I have seen quite a number of neighborhoods that for one reason or another get the eye of a developer (or a number of developers) that gob up properties and push people out. This was much worse in certain cities in Brazil, and I still recall near my workplace a very tiny lot with a house inserted in the middle of several skyscrapers - someone probably either too stubborn or deed was lost and recovered only years after the buildings were erected.
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Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
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PITA and part of living in the Tenanted world. I have had it happen to me commercially at the end of lease. I was offered a new lease with a 50% hike or else. I suggested impolitely I would be taking the or else option and they could place their bluestone building somewhere appropriate >:D
No need for outrage or response or campaigns just a sad/annoying event in the quirky, offbeat and slightly kooky (good thing) that is Franlabs :-+
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This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
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If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
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If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
Depends on where the new owners are in the development process. If they are ready to start site work in a few weeks, then that might be a possibility.
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I just hope that she takes it in stride and keeps on with the business of making videos of cool things. Not to mention good guitar music and accessories.
The worst thing to happen would be if she lets it get her down.
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I did not watch the video yet,
But based on what people are writing
Isent this the plot of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCp0qLqnCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdCp0qLqnCY)
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The downsides of renting. You're really at the mercy of the landlords/owners and your life can be turned upside down real quick if they make any decisions that affect you.
Hopefully she can somehow find a new place and own it and get set up again but sounds like money is an issue.
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Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
There he goes again. :palm: Get help, this obsession isn't healthy or productive.
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well she does not dress like
wait why am i even
breast implants?
maybe flame thrower boobs like wild wild west? fembots?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYj4YDgwrs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYj4YDgwrs0)
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2000 sq ft? Really for a Lab ? What she builds rocket engines there? Or it is also her living place?
I do not see it necessary to live near restaurants and night clubs, and with today's online supplies procurement i see no problems to run a small business from a suburb.
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uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department
you get a sales call and you say hold up, let me quote you in 3 days after I verify 15 different parts sources? when someone asks to buy some shit you wanna get back to them as soon as humanly fucking possible with a YES.. and deliver, not wonder if people are gonna send you sharp fucked up brackets, tomb stoned PCB and have their laser cutter break down.
2000sqft is small for a work shop.
reasonably accessible table saw, mill, drill press, grinder, lathe, tool cabinets, a few work benches, laser cutter, pick and place, oven occupies all that real fast. add welding, electronics, burn in test area...
a lot of idiots can pack all that stuff real tight but its not good for cleaning, workflow or safety. yea I am talking to you buddy, with that spectrum analyzer 2 feet away from a bench grinder.
if you wanna get stuff done fast too, you wanna setup your production in a round robin fashion, not have to hire a mathematician to do complex analysis on what route to take. less stress and you can actually focus on doing stuff rather then 'juggling space'
then there is always the 'cad factor'. You can setup jigs quickly to do certain jobs to match what you have in your head without going to a god damn computer to make a drawing, then argue about it over a telephone because you forgot to specify some shit someone wants to know about that you just intrinsically know about (quality of a drilled hole, tolerances (you can just tell or do a quick fit test). Wanna make a few parts fast for a small production? Spending hours making blue prints is not the way to go about it. Maybe a few notes on a post it.
If you have a few people that like being tied up with utter bullshit (stop production because some one gets something thats not absolutely perfect and their a fuckin robot) all the time then sure, you can get by just mailing things to different people.. and it makes some sense on extreme mass production.. but for a smaller business that does custom work???? come on.
theoretically you might be able to squeeze some money out of it, but practically your gonna end up looking like professor xavier
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Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
There he goes again. :palm: Get help, this obsession isn't healthy or productive.
Those two are the only other female tech TV show hosts who have publicly asked for help in recent history. (That I know of anyways.)
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department
you get a sales call and you say hold up, let me quote you in 3 days after I verify 15 different parts sources? when someone asks to buy some shit you wanna get back to them as soon as humanly fucking possible with a YES.. and deliver, not wonder if people are gonna send you sharp fucked up brackets, tomb stoned PCB and have their laser cutter break down.
2000sqft is small for a work shop.
reasonably accessible table saw, mill, drill press, grinder, lathe, tool cabinets, a few work benches, laser cutter, pick and place, oven occupies all that real fast. add welding, electronics, burn in test area...
a lot of idiots can pack all that stuff real tight but its not good for cleaning, workflow or safety. yea I am talking to you buddy, with that spectrum analyzer 2 feet away from a bench grinder.
if you wanna get stuff done fast too, you wanna setup your production in a round robin fashion, not have to hire a mathematician to do complex analysis on what route to take. less stress and you can actually focus on doing stuff rather then 'juggling space'
It's possible to shrink down an electronics lab quite a bit without losing too much functionality (been there, done that), but as you stated that's definitely not true of mechanical shops. Stationary power tools take up a lot of space and there has to be lots of clearance to allow for transport of large workpieces. Not to mention space to store materials.
It's often said that the sort of lab that downsizes the easiest is software - all you need for programming is a computer and there's no shortage of efforts to pack lots of computing power into small spaces. Not to mention cloud services for the stuff that really needs a lot of compute power.
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you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard
and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).
maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
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Those two are the only other female tech TV show hosts who have publicly asked for help in recent history. (That I know of anyways.)
This has nothing to do with female or not. You're just inventing reasons to mention the Youtube ladies you obsess about again.
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you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard
and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).
maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
There's a lot between climbing on tables and 2000 square feet.
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Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
Fran is hardly an old lady you cheeky young whippersnapper you!
Now get off my lawn! Pesky kids! :)
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you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard
and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).
maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.
That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.
This has nothing to do with female or not. You're just inventing reasons to mention the Youtube ladies you obsess about again.
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
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you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard
and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).
maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
There's a lot between climbing on tables and 2000 square feet.
challenge accepted
but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc
as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.
like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..
if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories
and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).
You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.
then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.
All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.
i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.
fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.
Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.
also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
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challenge accepted
but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc
as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.
like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..
if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories
and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).
You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.
then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.
All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.
i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.
fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.
Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.
also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.
Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
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The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.
That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
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The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.
That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.
Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
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challenge accepted
but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc
as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.
like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..
if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories
and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).
You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.
then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.
All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.
i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.
fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.
Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.
also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.
Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
and this people, is how your boss keeps costs down
i know your type, your working on a shrink ray aren't you? you wanna run shit out a broom closet to keep rent down
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looking to hire: ant man
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uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department
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Now that was a long post but i have no clue why you went to that extreme. It is about one person, not a full blown company with employees, and the person said it is a Lab (not manufacturing facility).
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cuz someone is loosing a work space and lab and people are like nah you dont need that, your backwards, dont know how to use space, etc
ridiculous , i think she has been doing it for like 20 years
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At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.
Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.
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obsessive is news paper cutout collages in a dim basement, creepy guys with binoculars and lockpicks, love letters being mailed, dmm's, constant current sinks
this is more like advertising for a particular sub segment of a community
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At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.
Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.
I was trying to lighten up the whole thing, and frankly your attitude towards it is a bit obsessive. I don't recall you being appointed as a moderator. it's one thing to call out bullshit, or object to racism, or some other on-the-spot thing that might happen in a normal conversations. It's quite another to announce a campaign where you're declaring that you've decided to moderate a particular user's postings. Some might characterise that as bullying.
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and this people, is how your boss keeps costs down
i know your type, your working on a shrink ray aren't you? you wanna run shit out a broom closet to keep rent down
What makes you think bosses don't care about output? They generally rent what's required for the staff to do their job properly. Staff tends to be a lot more expensive than rent. You turned that into needing a large amount of square meters or choking your staff productivity, but that's a false dilemma.
It's good to remind ourselves that people simply wondered what all that space is required for, as it's a lot of space for a one woman band. That's a fair question.
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I was trying to lighten up the whole thing, and frankly your attitude towards it is a bit obsessive. I don't recall you being appointed as a moderator. it's one thing to call out bullshit, or object to racism, or some other on-the-spot thing that might happen in a normal conversations. It's quite another to announce a campaign where you're declaring that you've decided to moderate a particular user's postings. Some might characterise that as bullying.
I didn't quite read the lightening up part in it, but fair enough. My response was a bit tongue in cheek for sure. It should be pretty obvious I'm not moderating anything. I just felt compelled to address an issue that has bothered quite a few forum members before and which they talked to NiHoaMike about before on a few occasions. Much like how you felt the need to address me, I guess.
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At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.
Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.
Yea OK he has a bit of a problem but you seem to be a bit trigger happy here and now half the thread did become about you obsession about his obsession. If you think there is a problem then please report it.
Are we all happy and calmed down now?
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It's good to remind ourselves that people simply wondered what all that space is required for, as it's a lot of space for a one woman band. That's a fair question.
I have 88sqm spread over two offices, plus a 44sqm storage bunker. Fran is looking for 185sqm.
I have one full time employee but he only takes up one small desk, so let's say it's just me.
We are basically in the same business with similar requirements in terms of space for filming, R&D, stock, assembly, packing and shipping, works in progress, and storage of gear and other stuff.
I have 7 work benches in my lab and its STILL not enough space.
I can totally understand why Fran would be looking for 185sqm.
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a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up, and so you can do things like have a few empty rack mounts in your lab so you can wheel a rack mount over to a bench, configure it up with a bunch of test equipment that might not even have inputs on the front (i am looking at you microwave amplifiers or high power supplies or other specific things) and comfortably work there or possibly leave it running over a long period of time.
People expect you to 'build stonehenge' for some reason. You can have a rotary table but as soon as you have some hook up wires in the front and you need to adjust something in the back, your in trouble and risk kinking the cables with the equipment its self and you can stress the connectors. If its heavy and sinks into a ESD mat then you need to play build the ancient monuments.
I have had to egyptian walk behind crap to do hook ups before, because someones area was housed in a catacomb. Not fun.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_c-FRuQYOFCs/SDWHuoFo4GI/AAAAAAAAAP8/VJwOJ3lvXsk/s320/walk.jpg)
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Not good:
I recon we could crowd source finding a new place for her if she lets us know the budget and requirements.
If there's anyone in the electronics world who deserves that kind of help, it's Fran. Historical preservation is not financially productive, yet IMHO extremely important.
If just a quarter of her 80K subscribers pitched in 25 bucks each, that'd cover moving and construction costs as well as make a massive down payment to buy a building. Renting just isn't viable in the volatile, skyrocketing real estate market of any halfway-desirable US city.
PITA and part of living in the Tenanted world. I have had it happen to me commercially at the end of lease. I was offered a new lease with a 50% hike or else. I suggested impolitely I would be taking the or else option and they could place their bluestone building somewhere appropriate >:D
No need for outrage or response or campaigns just a sad/annoying event in the quirky, offbeat and slightly kooky (good thing) that is Franlabs :-+
This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
This is what angers me about rental agreements in USA: they are barely worth the paper they're printed on, as far as tenant security goes.
<rant>One of the things I (as an American) appreciate about Switzerland is that tenants are very sensibly protected. (In the US, where tenants are protected, it's often poorly implemented, leading to abuse at the expense of landlords.) Like, if you have a lease, and the building is sold… well, tough luck, new owner, you must adhere to the lease, and you can't just kick someone out with a month's notice. That's the thing that I really hate about US leases: you can end it on far too short notice. Here in CH, it's 3 months notice and not before the lease ends. (If a tenant wants to break the lease, they must also give 3 months notice, or find nominate a suitable replacement tenant. This seems like a very equitable system to me.) And you also can't just raise rent arbitrarily — you can raise it to cover costs and then some, just not open-ended. (I moved into my current apartment right as this neighborhood had begun to gentrify, so I essentially locked in a rent quite a bit below market rate these days. And since inflation here is essentially zero, there have been no cost increases to justify a higher rent.)
I realize that USA has designed its real estate system and laws around homeownership, not rental. But given how real estate prices have skyrocketed, and real wages have remained flat, this just isn't a sustainable model. We can do better.</rant>
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Also lets not forget, the stuff Dave sells comes pre-assembled and pre-packaged.
Were the EEVBlog lab being use to assemble PCBs, cases, package equipment etc, it would need a lot more space too.
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I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.
Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
None of the above presents a particularly welcoming environment for fellow EE/tech nerds who happen to genetically differ from the dominant profile in only one of 46 chromosomes... To me, it doesn't have a place here, regardless of how normal and species-survival-critical a behavior might be in the wild, if it doesn't affect what happens in the engineering, I think it's best left aside.
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If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
This is what angers me about rental agreements in USA: they are barely worth the paper they're printed on, as far as tenant security goes.
<rant>One of the things I (as an American) appreciate about Switzerland is that tenants are very sensibly protected. (In the US, where tenants are protected, it's often poorly implemented, leading to abuse at the expense of landlords.) Like, if you have a lease, and the building is sold… well, tough luck, new owner, you must adhere to the lease, and you can't just kick someone out with a month's notice. That's the thing that I really hate about US leases: you can end it on far too short notice.
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy. Around here (MA and NH), a new building owner absolutely does inherit the leases of existing tenants and there are very few cases where commercial tenants can be forced out against their will. (Negotiated settlements and non-renewals do happen all the time, of course.) I'm looking at some commercial property in NH and the very first thing we reviewed with the current owner is the status of the existing leases and renewal options. (In my case, I'm interested in keeping the tenants, but either way, I want to know what I'm buying into.)
Assuming she's not going to be kicked out against her will prior to July '19, she might be able to reach a cash settlement to leave earlier (if that's acceptable/preferable to her) or can stay until then.
If the facts are as above, I don't see this as a particular failure of the US real estate system and norms, but simply a natural conclusion of "you have more control over your real estate if you own it than if you don't".
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a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up
I need a bench like that for the lab. The mailbag bench doesn't cut it as I have to keep it at least reasonably clear.
I'd have 3-4 such benches if I had a big open lab, so you can have a few projects ongoing at once and you can leave then so they don't get disturbed.
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Also lets not forget, the stuff Dave sells comes pre-assembled and pre-packaged.
Were the EEVBlog lab being use to assemble PCBs, cases, package equipment etc, it would need a lot more space too.
Indeed.
I have done some small scale assembly, and have tested thousands of boards in my 50sqm lab. Packaging and shipping was on the floor in a few sqm available:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgbIn_7z8Ng (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgbIn_7z8Ng)
The current 88sqm is too small, 120sqm would be more what I really need to not be cramped. Include my storage bunker and that's close to Fran.
Fran does more stuff than me, so 185sqm is definitely not too big. And Fran said it's the size she's always found she needed for 20 years or whatever, and I can certainly believe it.
I should consolidate my lab and office into one bigger space, but it's about $50k in rent.
Trio Test moved out their office in the same business park which was about 130sqm and it was very nice, but again, about $50k in rent.
Also, setting up a lab with all the required lighting and benches and a zillion parts doesn't make for a clean space when they come around to inspect.
Not to mention the hassle of moving, but it would at least force me to clean up ;D
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She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
That's what just happened to my office space, I'm now on month to month, so they could boot me out any time now.
There was no financial benefit to signing another multi-year lease so I didn't bother.
Getting booted out of the office space wouldn't be much of a hassle, it's just desks and boxes.
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Guys and gals,
stop wasting your time with this useles discussion.
If I were anywhere close, I would offer some assistance in moving all that gear.
Looking at the videos, moving such a lab will involve quite some man and lady power. I'd expect some 80 to 100 man hours (10 volunteers each working 8 to 10 hours or so) to get it all out and roughly back in at the new place, depending on distance of course.
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challenge accepted
but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc
Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.
also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.
Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
I agree. Just look at what Rxpilot is doing with only a 400 square feet garage. More space costs more money.
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i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.
temporary folding table. no.
work bench access being blocked by cabinet.
crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.
I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available. I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.
Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?
that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.
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a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up
I need a bench like that for the lab. The mailbag bench doesn't cut it as I have to keep it at least reasonably clear.
I'd have 3-4 such benches if I had a big open lab, so you can have a few projects ongoing at once and you can leave then so they don't get disturbed.
The number of benches you need will probably turn out to be something like n + 3, where n is however many you currently have or have space for.
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i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.
temporary folding table. no.
work bench access being blocked by cabinet.
crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.
I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available. I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.
Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?
that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.
Sometimes you need to compromise between what you need, and what you can afford. If fran can't afford something, then she needs to figure something else out.
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I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.
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I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.
In most of the cases I see, the new owner is going to demolish the building and replace it with a tower having trendy high end retail in the ground floor and expensive luxury condos above. What the new owner gains is a tremendous amount of profit.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification
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challenge accepted
but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc
Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.
also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.
Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
I agree. Just look at what Rxpilot is doing with only a 400 square feet garage. More space costs more money.
Are any of you even remotely qualified to evaluate such needs?
Do you make engineering videos and have a business manufacturing products?
I'm probably as close as it gets to doing the same stuff as Fran and I have 127sqm total vs Fran's 180sqm, and I can assure you that I could really do with some more space.
If someone has spent decades being productive in 2000sqft then who's to say they don't need all that space again?
Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)
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I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.
It's clear they want the building for their own use. Happens all the time when someone buys a commercial space.
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Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
:-DD
Comment of the week.
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i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.
temporary folding table. no.
work bench access being blocked by cabinet.
crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.
I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available. I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.
Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?
that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.
Sometimes you need to compromise between what you need, and what you can afford. If fran can't afford something, then she needs to figure something else out.
i never said you can't make money or work in that space but I am just saying its not a good work environment. He made a compromise between work space and quality of equipment being used. The quality of equipment that he has is decent but none the less the space is over packed 3-4 times and the storage methods, furniture, work ability, etc is low quality. Most people would be very frustrated to work there.
The human interface design of that room is poor due to the decisions he made, but it seems that for him the juice is worth the squeeze.
The eevblog laboratory is also cramped and has loads of inconveniences like the use of tupperware plastic containers to house equipment, open shelves, tons of stuff on the floor.
In my opinion a good laboratory will have a austere feel to it. Frantone clearly has the same feelings as I do.
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One idea, Detroit. Lots of people in similar situations have ended up in Detroit where large spaces are available for a pittance because of the situation there. Also, other parts of PA. Pittsburgh area for example. Or Cleveland, might have warehouse space to spare.
However, that may be cut off in the future by the price of heating. If the price of natural gas goes up a lot like they say it will, due to exports, its going to be insanely expensive heating a large place, nomatter where it is in the US. Like it is in Europe.
These kinds of situations put people under a kind of stress that even just by itself is neurotoxic. I can't overemphasize the importance of this. A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.
If I were her I would try to pare down the bulk of my stuff. If she does that in a well thought out methodical way she'll be able to keep the things that matter to her but she cant be wasting any time hoping its going to change, if a miracle occurs, great but she cant count on that. This huge shift is happening everywhere. It happened to me. I had to give away 3/4 of what I owned. Its impossible to sell things on short notice.
It will not be easy finding another place to live, let alone a 'lab' in an urban area, without a very well paying job and perfect credit. And often they want a little under the table too. Thats what she should focus on. Living space. Its very very hard to find a live work space. The future is people living in dorm like shared spaces (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-grown-ups-san-francisco.html). Basically living like college students again. (Blessedly now, they might be able to find a unit with its own bathroom! That would be almost as good as a small apartment in a city where there are often good, cheap ways to eat out)
It can get really desperate. When I lived in SF several times I had to extricate people from spaces in my building they werent supposed to live in (under the front stairs, where we kept the garbage cans, and old abandoned storage rooms in the damp dark basement. Whos to say if we wont end up in rabbit hutch like "cage homes (https://allthatsinteresting.com/cage-homes-hong-kong)" like the poor in Hong Kong do.
When people are trying to drive you out, what can I say. Its not a safe situation to be in.
She could end up in a really bad situation.
Wealthy people don't understand the rest of the human race's values when they have dollar signs in their eyes. They see buying properties, tarting them up and reselling them to make a quick profit as their entitlement. Really. "Everybody else is getting rich", they say, doing this, why not them too? Its like a game for them.
If poor people try to hang on to spaces they have professionals who they hire to come in and drive them out. Professional building clearers. They can make it impossible for anybody who has to keep a job or who needs to sleep, breathe, etc. to live in a building. The stories I could tell people would just blow your minds. I've been through this.
She really doesn't want to become a speed bump on their highway to riches. If she cannot afford an attorney to fight it out (and it looks like that would be really hard to find, as they are super expensive.) she should just be happy she has some time because of her lease, and move. Try to find another place to live first. Thats the #1 priority. She needs to get on top of it because other things are likely coming that will displace lots of others so soon she will be competing with them. And many of them will likely be better off financially. Still working and needing to stay near jobs, nearing retirements, etc. Thanks to our President, the REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER.
Older people like Fran and myself are still living in another, gentler era. We're not really so realistic. For better or for worse, thats just the way we are.
Fran if you read this, your health is the thing you need to think about, the sooner you decide to deal with this and start finding good places for your stuff and self, the better off you'll be in terms of your chances of finding a new lab too. Don't become a paralyzed 'deer in the headlights', if you do you will sink into despair and not be able to find a new place. Paradoxically, like employment, the more you 'need' something like that the harder it is to find it. All that old equipment may be interesting for historical reasons but its big and bulky and not as useful as newer equipment in a pragmatic electronics sense. You have to move on. Thats how to improve your chances of finding another challenge and maybe you will luck out. Its more likely than not if you rise to the challenge, but if you dont its going to be very hard.
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Detroit is an area that could really use a little gentrification. The problem is that once the ball starts rolling, it's really hard to stop.
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Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)
Are you sure you measured the sq ft properly? My space is 270 sq ft and yours does not look 4 times bigger.
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She speaks of being able to safely walk to the supermarket and restaurants where she lives now and of not really needing an automobile. So the need is not just for a new workspace but a new neighborhood.
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Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)
Are you sure you measured the sq ft properly? My space is 270 sq ft and yours does not look 4 times bigger.
My lab is 50sqm
I have two separate spaces in two different buildings. Three if you count my storage bunker.
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The eevblog laboratory is also cramped and has loads of inconveniences like the use of tupperware plastic containers to house equipment, open shelves, tons of stuff on the floor.
In my opinion a good laboratory will have a austere feel to it. Frantone clearly has the same feelings as I do.
Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
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At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.
:(
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Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
I've always wondered about why you've chosen to rent multiple spaces rather than consolidating, though I understand you might not want to share anything and everything.
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One idea, Detroit. Lots of people in similar situations have ended up in Detroit where large spaces are available for a pittance because of the situation there. Also, other parts of PA. Pittsburgh area for example. Or Cleveland, might have warehouse space to spare.
I thought about the same exact thing. However, since she mentioned on the video she is concerned about the neighbourhood safety, I can't help but think what copper thieves would do with a treasure trove of "metals for scrapping" at her lab in the middle of an abandoned area of Detroit (IIRC, certain areas are not even policed anymore due to lack of residents/funds, but I am not sure if this was FUD I read somewhere).
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At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
I knew someone that had a small retail store in a mall. It was a good location and was doing OK. Then the large main anchor store moved out. That killed a lot of his walk ins, the "oh while we are here let's take a look traffic". On top of that his share for the HVAC and maint of the common space when up. The store that moved, because they rented the largest space, paid a large share of those costs. The cost got re-calculated and all the smaller shop renters had to make up the difference. As more stores moved out, the costs to the others skyrocketed.
It is not all about location.
A small 5-6 unit strip mall. One unit was a salon that was run by the landlord and couldn't make a go of it. It sat empty for some time until two people I know leased it. Since it was already setup as a salon, it didn't take much for it to get up and going. They did great, mainly because their long term customers stayed with them, and they did really good work at a good price. When the lease came up for a second renewal, the landlord seeing how much business they had just about doubled the rent, pushing them out. The landlord thought that now it has a lot of traffic, She could take it back over, just a change of owners and staff and name, the same people will keep coming to the salon.
Of course the plan didn't work for the landlord, and on top of that traffic to whole strip mall crashed and the pub next door with very good food closed up.
Greed.
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Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
I've always wondered about why you've chosen to rent multiple spaces, though I understand you might not want to share anything and everything.
It's a bit complicated financially, logistically, and plus market availability wise.
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
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The problem is, thats what everybody wants.
Ironically, its the people who really need walkability who are suffering the most by the shifts. (maybe they don't own a car or even drive, but still need to get to work.)
People who were born in and grew up in city neighborhoods but whose incomes have not kept up are the ones who are getting forced out in large numbers now. And there really is no place for most of them to go thats likely to work out well. Its going to get much worse before it gets better (if it ever does)
She speaks of being able to safely walk to the supermarket and restaurants where she lives now and of not really needing an automobile. So the need is not just for a new workspace but a new neighborhood.
There are a lot of people in this situation and they should join up and set up organizations to buy properties in areas unlikely to gentrify soon. Outside of towns so unlikely to be added to redevelopment projects.
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lol detroit walkability, more like driving around in dead reckoning
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My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
Out of curiosity, in what way? Bear in mind that most of us non-antipodeans have no clue what's happening in your local economy.
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At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Well, there are incubators and makerspaces, which can be very helpful to our types of people. One incredible one is Tx/Rx labs in Houston. I visited there once for a conference, and it was amazing. They also had the best electronics facilities I've ever seen in a makerspace. But, there are a bunch of others that are also pretty good.
At least some parts of Detroit may be too far gone to be a viable location right now, but there are plenty of other cities where crime is tolerable and property values are not crazy. I don't know if Fran really WANTS to stay in New York, but there are a lot of other places that could be a lot more affordable. I'm in a suburb of St. Louis, MO, and have my lab/production facility in the basement of my house. I have a Bridgeport mill converted to CNC, a 3500-Lb lathe, a sheet metal shear and finger brake, pick and place machine, and electronics lab down there. At least, in the past, I made great use of the home office deduction, too, although the tax laws have been changed, so they may not do as much in the coming years.
Jon
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My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
Out of curiosity, in what way? Bear in mind that most of us non-antipodeans have no clue what's happening in your local economy.
Two years ago there was a massive shortage of stock in my business park for rent or for sale.
I would prefer to buy a bigger place, but there simply wasn't anything for sale at the time and I needed the extra space.
Not to mention that prices have more than doubled in my business park for commercial realeststate, something that was almost unprecendented before (commercial realeststate never goes up like residential)
So if I wanted to buy, I needed to do that about 3 years ago, I missed that boat.
Now there is a lot more stock available for rent, so there is more choice to find something suitable.
And rents haven't gone up so now renting one big space makes sense where it didn't before, it made more sense to buy instead of rent 3 years ago.
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A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.
No sources cited.
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At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.
:(
If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?
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Look at the emerging science of psychoneuroimmunology - and especially allostasis and allostatic load (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=allostatic+load).
These insults are cumulative. Racism is the most studied but other forms of similar discrimination are identical physiologically. So are certain other kinds of visceral pain, say the realization that one has been cheated out of something important, by some trick, the sickness or death of a close family member, or even a messy divorce. Health care costs, paradoxically, increase health care costs.
Fear of loss of housing is also a severe shock that figures high up in Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
The things that are then measurable are things like "all source mortality"(death) (and/or "morbidity"(disease)) They can use other statistical techniques.. comparing deaths in one cohort to another, say between countries with otherwise similar sets of conditions and development. Another useful search term is "excess deaths"
Usually used in a context like "excess deaths amenable to improved health care" and or "excess deaths amenable to improved access to health care".
But the new development is our understanding of where the allostatic load fits in and why these problems occur. Stress hormones - glucocorticoids (steroids) are powerful stimulants of the immune response made by the body to keep us alive when we are facing a direct threat to our survival. But they also are neurotoxins. This is why people just fall apart when subjected to continuous stress. Cortisol will dysregulate the HPA and destroy large amounts of grey matter in the brain over time. (The brain actually shrinks, causing the sunken eyes effect.) They also impact the delicate structures connecting the two sides of the brain. This is why people who have been under a lot of stress for a long time (more than a few weeks) often develop incurable brain damage ("PTSD") It was first observed in World War I in soldiers in the trenches of warfare.
Some substances, curcumin is one, may be neuroprotective but come at a cost in terms of loss of the (necessary for survival) fear response.
This science is still in its infancy.
You can find out much more on PubMed.
A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.
No sources cited.
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At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.
:(
If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?
Getting richer flipping property is relatively easy, getting rich, not so much. You really need to have a substantial amount of cash on hand to buy up a lot of those properties, can't just go take out a bank loan and if you do, the interest will eat up much of the profit. Once one has a certain amount of wealth it gets progressively easier to acquire more wealth.
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you also want to be willing to deal with massive amounts of utter bullshit.
there is the hidden cost of going to visit those properties and having to maintain some kind of vision. Then renting and being a land lord to some degree or hiring people that don't suck. It;s a headache. You could try to get by with heavy handed lease agreements and stuff but that limits client base.
Then you have all sorts of bullshit relating to industry in the area, zoning, chemicals storage for business use. And you can easily get involved in litigation.
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Ah, OK, so it's not such a free and easy path to riches then which I think was a59d1's point...
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Ah, OK, so it's not such a free and easy path to riches then which I think was a59d1's point...
If you hire professionals to do everything for you, you can get by just being an ideas man but the margins become slimmer and slimmer.
Even for a simple rental something like a shady HVAC repair man or plumber can fuck you in the ass hard.. you need to patrol that shit or just be willing to have alot of exposure. If you have alot you might need to hire managers, which you then need to super vise. It's basically similar to running a business. If you know how to do all that stuff to some degree to where systems remain maintained and functional you can save a pretty sum of money.. but then you need to be on call basically. Otherwise you just need to trust that a repair is good.. or you might end up fighting with contractors.
It can be the stupidest shit, like say you have an out door HVAC unit and you hire a lawn care guy. Tennant does not give a shit, but wants the AC back on as per the lease. Then you need to either shell out hard for a repair.. or if you wanna save money you can investigate the manner yourself to see if maybe the lawn care guy broke it, or if you can prove he broke it. Easy 2000$ loss right there. Typically if you own the property your pretty careful to at lease observe, determine if damage occurred after services, work being done, etc but you can't really 'demand' the tenant do that.
It still either comes down to having a good relationship with the tenant to have him do some leg work (inspection, pictures, talking to the repair people), or for you to work as a remote facilities manager, or just write some insane lease that says you don't give a fuck if something breaks (which people don't wanna go for unless its really cheap). The financially reasonable/easy way is to get property where you are and organize your life so you have time to deal with those issues. If you are working a 40 hour a week job and the property is 3 hours drive, you can go mad if you had to work late then you need to deal with some broke crap in another city. Home owner might know how to use a snake to unclog a toilet. Tenant will likely ask for a plumber. Thats 200$ for a clogged john. God forbid the heating goes out in the winter.
I don't know how it scales financially when you own alot of properties though.
Also keep in mind when your own property breaks, you usually know the town/city and have contacts, so you know whats reasonable, and you might call a few services to shop around.. and over time you get to know the best services etc so you can save money. If you need to do that for 10 houses in 10 different locations imagine how much home work you have. It's not like you have good neighbors you can ask.. your just some land lord.
You can also get blood pressure raising stuff like someone demanding a carpenter to come in to tighten a screw on a cabinet door (for real). Electrical inspection because someone 'smelled something'.
Someone in my family was a super.. and believe me it can be super frustrating. Going to your property and you see the place is a pig sty.
You kinda need to treat it like a investment I think, set rules for yourself and follow them (i.e. make a plan to actually be professional and call a plumber or tech immediately, rather then trying save a few bucks by begging tenants to do things, or be tempted to decide to 'drive around doing over time' to save a few bucks... ) then you can focus on buying more property.. but its hard to accept stupid ass cash hemorrhaging that can theoretically be prevented. When your big its probobly easier, but then you can end up getting a bad reputation because you don't do your homework with correct service choice (if you end up having a brand name etc).. people get pissed if they talk to someone in the area and they find out your hiring the biggest slack asses.
There is a old funny cartoon about this, called the PJ's.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1tMr5yEwM0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1tMr5yEwM0)
then there is also that movie with Joe Pesci 'the super'. I probably like this movie more then most since I grew up with someone in my family being a super in a rather bad building with super greedy owners.
As for flipping, thats everyones plan... homes can take a while to sell but rent quick.
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I keep hearing that everything connected to the US and investment is being puffed up tremendously by large investment from Asia in particular. There is a perception that the US (and Australia) are two of the safest places to invest - while many other countries are - at least their inhabitants believe, so extremely corrupt, so corrupt they are on the verge of revolutions.
Also there is the huge demographic hump of older people, coming as it is just as technology is eliminating (soon) billions of jobs. Plus we have trade obligations where other countries claim we owe them access to the shrinking pools of jobs we have, in perpetuity! After all, they are cheaper.
This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets. Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.
:(
If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?
Getting richer flipping property is relatively easy, getting rich, not so much. You really need to have a substantial amount of cash on hand to buy up a lot of those properties, can't just go take out a bank loan and if you do, the interest will eat up much of the profit. Once one has a certain amount of wealth it gets progressively easier to acquire more wealth.
Yes, exactly. Just ask our President, the "self made billionaire". (cough)
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LMAO no. The US is not special in this.
Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).
This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets. Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
:-DD
Riiight.
The UK is dumping its social safety nets because the tories are just as heartless, deluded, and evil as the GOP.
Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically.
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LMAO no. The US is not special in this.
Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).
I'm a little surprised they don't have serious problems with squatting if that many are uninhabited. I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors. I certainly wish they'd do that down in my area. Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
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I'm a little surprised they don't have serious problems with squatting if that many are uninhabited. I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors.
They’re generally high-end urban properties, many are apartments, many are row houses, some are standalone buildings. In any case, as investment properties that they use instead of hotels when in town, they will have caretakers. I’ve heard of roads in London where the only actual residents are the handful of live-in caretakers hired to keep the houses safe and clean, and to manage the gardeners, etc. :(
From an economics standpoint, a problem is that they’re only used a short time out of the year, if at all, or even if there’s a live-in caretaker, it might be one person in a house that should live 8...
I googled a bit and it also seems that a ton of the foreign-owned buildings are rental properties. So off the market for local buyers, but not unoccupied at least.
I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors. I certainly wish they'd do that down in my area.
Indeed!!! I’m not entirely sure what the motivation is for places like London and New York to not restrict foreign buyers, given the acute affordable housing shortages in both. Is it just property tax greed?
Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
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The Internet (in its capacity as a surveillance wet dream come true) is replacing the safety nets.
I venture to say we will not see many more revolutions (than we did in the past).
Nor, I suspect are we likely to see true democracy, (meaning the kind that can actually fix things) unless a great many things change. FTAs that limit the policy space for things of economic relevance, in the interest of certainty for MNCs, (with a sop thrown in to pay lip service to economic integration) are incompatible with democracy. Because people would vote to fix problems, and they would never vote to do things that maximized the income stream for investors, as policy is forced into now.
For democracy to work, people need to have a 'commons' where everything can be discussed - even policy not desired by the MNCs.
With the number of working people likely to decline greatly, society has to figure out what to do about the people who suddenly find themselves and the skills they worked for so long to gain, unable to earn income. In the environment we are entering carving anything in stone is a mistake, but that is exactly what is being done, in a panic reaction. very bad decisions are being made in a rush to "future proof" the future.
Right now, most of us, are very lacking in understanding of the implications of, for example, machine learning. Why? Part of it is intentional, people who think the current state of everything will continue as it is are much easier to manipulate. Also, people who think a current state of employment is about to end have statistically been shown to be far more likely to commit frauds.
Although some want to give up on educating people (whats the point, they say, "if few will be good enough to ever get jobs", why give people unrealistic expectations") thats very stupid because what is likely to happen when people are freed of work is ironically, an explosion of hugely creative activities that ironically are likely to create lots of new wealth.
But only if people have health, and a good quality of life and friends to share it with, what you were saying, tooki.
What a shame that they have made expanding safety nets a "taking" that must be compensated to corporations, isnt it? The kinds of "public good" that we all can see would be a plus in communities, is forbidden because its encouraged by a government entity, who are supposed to never hurt businesses investments.
So no more non-market anything, unless it already existed 20 years ago and isnt changed. It can only be privatized, never re-nationalized, thats the ideology. A one way ratchet exists. (Shhh!)
This is what I mean about people being ignorant.
People also really need to understand computer science better, thats for sure.
And its implications for 'civil society' in all sorts of ways. Especially employment.
LMAO no. The US is not special in this.
Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).
This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets. Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
:-DD
Riiight.
The UK is dumping its social safety nets because the tories are just as heartless, deluded, and evil as the GOP.
Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically.
Tooki: "Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically."
Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.
Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.
The democracy we can't be allowed to have, now, as some see it. Precisely because we need it so badly.
Imagine you are on top of the world now.
To you, every change is a threat, because you're on top NOW.
By on top I don't mean any specific country, I mean the people who are on top in all countries, and nobody else.
As far as the rest of us, everywhere, we're representative of the so called "mob's" thinking (yes, some people actually do use that term)
So, divide and conquer.
Therefore the stuff we're getting from the media is lacking any coverage at all on most of the most important issues and dominated by issues that are designed to divide and conquer us when in fact we would all agree on the important stuff we're not told about.
We're being manipulated VERY skillfully to create a 'record' for the future of fake consent to things we've never (and will never be) told about.
Look up 'shock therapy' in the context of what we've done to other countries. (Most Americans don't know anything about this.) But now they are getting ready to do the same things to us. Thats why there is all the commotion.
Both 'parties' in the US are playing a 'good cop bad cop' routine.
And the political candidates in many cases limit themselves to these wedge issues.
To cover up never getting anything fixed for as long as possible why they try to nail future policy down via backroom FTAs. (which do an end run around democracy)
The very few (you could count them on your fingers) candidates who discuss the real issues are either ostracized by all the rest, and everything they say is spun in a way as to shred any sense it makes, by the media, or fake and very skilled at deception, and likely plan to never win. By this the will of the people is frustrated.
This pattern is likely being replicated all around the world.
Here its easy to prove by how they structure it. But people are so heavily misled they wouldn't recognize it when they saw it. They often think the bits of real news are "fake news"!
I would be willing to bet the exact same thing is going on now in the UK. And MANY other countries.
Just wait and see, They are 20-30 years ahead of us on this. Thats why they are rich and we're not.
They see themselves as the true owners of everything. Its kind of like the enclosures of the past, what they are doing. Shifting the beneficial ownership of the planet's resources and policy totally to themselves.
I can't go any deeper into this because I'd get tossed off this blog. Do some research in the academic literature on trade and you'll see the disconnect.
Some day this will all be uncovered and people are going to be disgusted by how sordid it is.
It will make all these other issues seem insignificant. They all really must be having a good laugh at all of our expense over drinks at the end of the day.
I could be wrong I suppose, and I am sure I am on some of the minor points Ive made. My mental model is just a hypothesis. But, the anomalies that I see are so damning that its 100% clear to me that the model most of us think is true, isn't.
If it was we would have fixed a lot of our problems long ago. We're very much victims of abuse who fail to realize how brutal it was until after its over because we've not ever had a state of non-abuse to compare it to.
Hint, things would work for people. Most people would have happy lives.
Diversity of opinions and backgrounds would be celebrated - not just tolerated, or even worse, attacked.
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Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
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Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
Yeah, I think a lot of Americans (at least) really overextended themselves when buying, and bought properties they could afford the mortgage on, but not the maintenance. :/
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Two words, eminent domain.
If you live in the US, everything changed in 2005-2006. Now its perfectly legal for some real estate developer to displace you because they have some money making proposal which your local government sees as awarding benefit, to them.
Why let you capture the increase in value when your track record of moneymaking is generic, while that of Mr. Developer is good.
As real economic activity declines, churning increases exponentially.
Nobody makes any money by people just staying where they are and living nice lives. Thats their attitude. In some areas there is precious little other economic activity (other than churning) and its going to get far worse as more and more things are automated and tax receipts fall.
Few communities, even the ones you think would or should, take the long views that need to be taken. When they try to, they eventually find that FTAs stand in the way. This is, and will become more and more difficult to change because its an international game where everything is now 'tradable'. Including jobs.
Because there are far too few one eyed, let alone sighted men and women in the kingdom of the blind.
...
Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
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Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.
Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.
I doubt that the rate of knowledge increase is exponential. I can't see any mechanism that would be substantially higher than quadratic with time. (The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.)
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The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.
World population isn't really growing anymore, or rather, the birthrate is more or less constant now. The population is still growing for a little while longer because there are still fewer people in the oldest generations that are dying than the youngest generations having babies, but that will change and stabilise pretty soon.
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Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.
Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.
The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.
World population isn't really growing anymore, or rather, the birthrate is more or less constant now. The population is still growing for a little while longer because there are still fewer people in the oldest generations that are dying than the youngest generations having babies, but that will change and stabilise pretty soon.
Parts of the world is actually experiencing a population decline. Germany has been on this track for quite a while and has heavily relied on eastern European workforce brought over thanks to EU and Schengen Agreement. Even in China almost all major cities, Peking, Shanghai, Guangzhou and HK are all suffering from an aging population and a decline in local workforce, and having to rely on people from other places to even run the city. The Chinese example is particularly alarming since the customs of family reunion during Chinese New Year means during that time the major cities are almost empty with a lot of semi-essential services shut down. (It is lucky that China has employed AI and automation in those cities, so during that holiday the essential services can be largely left on unmonitored autopilot.)
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If she was an owner and was getting pushed out by eminent domain she would be entitled to "fair market value" but studies show that often the former owners got substantially less than fair market value at the time, and right after that it shot up.
As a renter, it depends on if her community has a 'just cause' eviction /condo conversion law.
But they - those kinds of laws, which generally limit rent increases and other changes to an arbitrary figure based on the estimated "consumer price index" - as well as other laws that require some 'below market rate' housing (which is still way too expensive for the people being displaced, who often don't even drive so living in rural areas, will be at best life changing, more likely than not it will be unmanageable.) be built, instead of all multi-million dollar condos) are on shaky legal ground nationally, because of the changes that have been occurring here recently.
(Also, what happens when or if the bubble breaks which you know it must, eventually.)
Miraculously, most people here, for the most part, have been kept completely oblivious to these changes by obviously phony candidates that puff up their confidence by telling them what they think they want to hear, even if it has little if any resemblance to whats really going on.
Generally, even in cities which are alleged to be the most favorable to renters, the owners hold pretty much all of the cards, that is, unless a bigger fish comes along and is able to displace them. Which happens a lot if an area doesn't maintain its spending.
This is why ending so called "net neutrality" is so important to certain people. An incredible amount of data collection is enabled by a total lack of entitlements to privacy.
It will make it possible to make all sorts of decisions, including city planning decisions based on the real data of how much the residents in neighborhoods spend. (and what they spend it on) Also their health status and habit, friends, everything.
Sort of like China's "Social Credit" system if it was strictly based on profit and spending.
The real change has come about because of a new emphasis on profit, and a shift in the body of law (see Ronald Coase's 1960 paper, "The Problem of Social Cost," ) that says that breaking contracts of all kinds at all levels of society is okay if more money is made by breaking them than by keeping them, its 'more efficient'..
"Efficient". Remember that word.
Obviously this shift is music to the ears of the very wealthy, all around the world, after years of being told their behavior was immoral and antisocial, now its not only okay, its desirable for might to make right. That is basically what fascism said, with a modernized spin to it.
Because this obviously would reduce profits for people to know this was happening, the general populace has been kept ignorant of these changes- so people have not reduced spending or started saving every penny, thats more profitable!
In country after country, government is prohibited from doing anything that reduces profits, pretty much now. This includes the profits of foreign investors, or its supposed to. Illustrating how countries no longer matter, class does. The wealthy would rather help out other wealthy people, than help poor people anywhere.
So a justification can be found for basically anything.
The argument against limits on rent increases and arbitrary evictions is a market based one, that laws which limit rent increases for existing tenants prevent the building of lots of new market rate housing which would in theory lower costs for new people moving into a city.
In practice that rarely if ever happens, though.
The other side of the coin is that longterm tenants who have been reliable tenants and have paid the increases without complaint, become less and less desirable to keep compared to new tenants who might may not only the going rate, they also may pay fees, or even bribes which are non-refundable.
Tenants of bad landlords may often find themselves increasingly on the front lines of a war. They cant even offer to pay more money because thats forbidden by the laws. And moving into another apartment in the same city will require much more money plus an annual income customarily two or preferably three times the rent.
Some tenants may be able to pay that but long term tenants rarely are, also they tend to not understand the big picture because its been years since they had to look for a place to live.
Plus the government,federal, state and local governments are not supposed to build any new public housing. As far as replacing existing public housing. That may also be prohibited.
In the near future it likely depends on whether they have carved out that service sector in advance. (The text I got that from was an EU document, the EU claiming it was for 'transparency' published a single, exceedingly vague document which gives an outline of the changes. The US position is likely just as aggressive or more so but its not public. Australia is also involved. )
So what this means is that money is everything.
As within a period of a decade or even less, the 'going rate' likely soars/has soared.
What then happens is some (a minority) of landlords - depending on their intrinsic mean spiritedness or not, some landlords either totally stop maintaining buildings, or they start activities which are calculated to be 'legal' but which have the effect of driving the better situated existing tenants out.
Ive had the bad luck to be in that situation and I can tell you its total hell.
They might not burn a building down but they might stop maintaining critical systems which seriously impact the tenants, even things as important as a (often shared in older buildings) hydronic heating, fire alarms and sprinklers (common) and lighting in common areas. (or often they steal the electricity for it)
Even in areas where laws then require they stop collecting rent some period after citations issued by building departments are ignored, and notices given (even fining them if they ask for it) tenants are so terrified by the possibility of not ever being able to rent again that they pay anyway.
Even as the landlord is trying to drive them out!
If pipes freeze that will cause flooding which causes a major mold problem that if not immediately addressed makes a building virtually uninhabitable for its future, until its literally gutted and cleaned out. Roofs can literally be falling in on tenants. Still they pay rent.
Because- where are they going to go once blacklisted?
Another tactic is hiring 'work people' (often fake) to do 'renovations' that never end, and 'security guards" and even fake other tenants, to harass the inhabitants. They go to lengths to find the weak spot of somebody (for example, say somebody is sick, maybe they have AIDS, or asthma or RA, and are on drugs that leave them vulnerable to opportunistic infections, well, rent an apartment and fill it full of garbage and sick cats and have the litter boxes, overflowing and never cleaned, right next to them - where they share a balcony.
They exploit every possible weakness they can find.
Another tactic is to - as tenants who can move somewhere else, leave, rent the vacant units out on airbnb, to party groups, which makes it impossible for the other tenants who typically have jobs they must go to every day, having slept the night before, making it exceedingly hard to get sleep.
Another tactic is to barrage them with notices of various work which needs to be done, giving the minimum 24 hours notice, making it impossible for people to leave their apartment for any kind of extended period. (even as they make it hell.)
Imagine living in a nice multifamily building thats sold and suddenly apartment after apartment becomes short term rentals.
Housing in US cities like San Francisco and New York is extremely difficult to find. So difficult its increasingly common to find homeless working people. Or maybe they are not officially homeless but desperate enough to live in closets, garages and even camp out in backyards and on roofs.
There is a web site "the worst room" where you can see what your money might buy you in NY and SF now.
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those nail houses always impressed me.
Sometimes I wonder if Leonidas was reincarnated as chinese.
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Sokoloff,
For the purpose of this discussion is the difference between "quadratic" and "exponential" growth that material?
Its an interesting comparison.
Suppose we just are discussing what matters to us, the knowledge which comes into the possession of ourselves, the world's population of human beings.
As more and more knowledge is being extracted from data by other means, a certain percentage of that knowledge now and likely more and more in the future will be collected and recorded in manners which make it difficult for us to fully understand it, or perhaps even understand it at all.
That possibility seems to me to illustrate what I meant about technology changing everything really well.
But unless one is directly involved with science (enough to have to deal with this speeding up in a visceral manner) you're far less likely to ever have thoughts about things like the rate of change and if it is accelerating exponentially or quadratically, and instead one likely bases life decisions on inherently flawed estimates of the rate of change in the future, flawed because they are based on one's own perception of the rate of change in the past.
Thats why politicians, economists, etc, again and again make horrible mistakes hugely underestimating the disruption caused by technology, the disruption it causes.
Back in the day, we used to joke that on the Internet everything happened in dog years. In other words, seven times faster.
(That situation likely was the inspiration for the famous New Yorker cartoon.) The Internet may not be the science where the biggest most earthshaking changes are happening any more, but its still changing the world very quickly, and not in a way thats likely to have a positive impact on employment.
Unrelated but important. The hype train and the cult of putting 'growth' and 'efficiency' for its own sake above everything else in a sort of race to the bottom on everything that matters to the people of the human race makes no sense to any smart person and indeed it is a Pied Piper leading us into (multiple) disasters.
At its core, its a bad model thats trying its best to obfuscate and steal the amazing gifts technology is giving us. Upon examining its core tenets, one sees that despite its hype, its not trying to facilitate progress, its actually trying to prevent and steal it.
Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.
Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.
I doubt that the rate of knowledge increase is exponential. I can't see any mechanism that would be substantially higher than quadratic with time. (The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.)
We need to start thinking about something important. Setting a good example for our offspring. Being good parents.
Treating others, no matter who or what they are, with respect in the way we ourselves would like to be treated.
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The melodrama seems to be getting high here.
This is a simple case of a commercial lease and a new owner wanting to end the lease once it's up. Nothing new here at all, happens all day every day in every city in the world.
Fran has a lease, and I doubt they can throw her out until the lease is up, subject to local laws.
It's the risk every company takes when they lease a place. And also the risk the owner takes in giving a lease (that usually includes extension "options"), in that they can't get it back until the lease expires.
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I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors.
Believe it or not, the amount of foreign investment is small.... it is NOT the main reason for prices going up, at least not in Toronto. I don't think that's the case necessarily in Vancouver either, or any of the other major cities.
The main problem is low interest rates, lack of new developments and generally just immigration of mostly ethnic populations (now the MAJORITY in many large Canadian cities) who wish to move to the large cities where they find their communities (food needs, religious, social, language, etc).
I happen to be a minority as well, just not VISIBLE... who happens to live in Toronto also to be close to my community that shares the same needs (schooling, religion, food, social groups, etc). And many people I work with are VISIBLE minorities who also wish to stay close to their ethnic communities. There is a lack of housing, historically low interest rates, and demand/supply is skewed... hence the housing "bubble".
We blame it on the foreign investors but even with them taken out of the picture or taxed like crazy, there is still a huge problem. If you move out of the major cities into small-town Canadian white-majority population areas you will not see this kind of housing feeding frenzy, and you can buy a huge house with tons of land at prices that have barely moved up.
The destruction and renewal of building spaces in large cities is necessary to create more space vertically for condos or other types of tentants because location is key, and the urban sprawl cannot continue indefinitely as it creates even worse traffic, pollution and inefficiencies.
Also, there is a general thought that purchasing property is a means of savings so even if you are paying a huge amount, you figure that it will go up in value and you will eventually cash out when you down-size. So as long as interest is fairly low and you can afford to pay, you buy... even if it seems a crazy amount, because when you rent you will save up NOTHING and build absolutely no equity. And also the longer you wait to enter the market, the harder it will be..
So once again, foreign investors are just a scape-goat for problems caused by our own country that nobody wants to really dig deep and look at. Americans may be more thinking of "melting-pot" mentality so ethnic people will go almost anywhere as long as it is close to their job. But Canadians are used to more of a "patchwork quilt" and so the major cities are attracting and keeping more people because that is where their ethnic social fabric and family and needs are.
Remember... the FREE MARKET will eventually push people away to other smaller cities/communities that are more affordable as long as people are willing to do it, and can give up their ties or rebuild new ones. How bad does it have to be before you leave Toronto? You can ask the same about New Yorkers... they love living in NYC and cannot imagine leaving, even though it costs them more and adds more stress to their lives, they have a love/hate relationship with the city. I lived and commuted through NYC for a number of years and talked to many people about this.
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Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.
Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.
I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China)
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.
https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2 (https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2)
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf)
Consequently, local governments ultimately control the rules for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed real estate is much more than the compensation fees given to the evictees.
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For the purpose of this discussion is the difference between "quadratic" and "exponential" growth that material?
When discussing or contemplating the pace at which society must adapt to any type of sustained change, the difference between "adapt at a linear rate" (the first differential of x2) and "adapt at an exponential rate" (the first differential of 2x) is massive, IMO.
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Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.
Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.
I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China)
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.
https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2 (https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2)
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf)
Consequently, local governments ultimately control the rules for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed real estate is much more than the compensation fees given to the evictees.
At least in Shanghai the local authorities is currently maintaining a stiff upper lip regarding evictions - the government can help you hanging out banners, but it is up to the developer to negotiate, and no force is allowed or face immediate criminal liability. As of renters protection most of the residents are renters but they get the same treatment as homeowners really, since there is a belief in China that people should not be stripped of their last roof over their head. Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
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Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.
Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.
I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China)
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.
https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2 (https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2)
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf)
Consequently, local governments ultimately control the rules for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed real estate is much more than the compensation fees given to the evictees.
At least in Shanghai the local authorities is currently maintaining a stiff upper lip regarding evictions - the government can help you hanging out banners, but it is up to the developer to negotiate, and no force is allowed or face immediate criminal liability. As of renters protection most of the residents are renters but they get the same treatment as homeowners really, since there is a belief in China that people should not be stripped of their last roof over their head. Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
does she live at her shop? the rules are usually quite different for homes and "professional"
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Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
Until someone clearly says that this is more than "we're not renewing anyone's lease once the term runs out", I'm going to work under the assumption that that's what happening, which is a simple, clear, and fair "both sides lived up to the bargain to which they agreed" outcome. I haven't heard anything to the contrary yet.
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Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoPnYgAVsAE1FVY.jpg:large)
This clearly demonstrates, that Nature abhors vacuum.
Specifically in an electronics lab.
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You can also get blood pressure raising stuff like someone demanding a carpenter to come in to tighten a screw on a cabinet door (for real). Electrical inspection because someone 'smelled something'.
Someone in my family was a super.. and believe me it can be super frustrating. Going to your property and you see the place is a pig sty.
I have been a small landlord for 32 years. Only two units. Everything, and I mean everything, that you have mentioned is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. It is a whore job.
On top of it, insurance and taxes have been skyrocketing faster than what I can increase the rent.
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Paterson, NJ, birthplace of beat poet Allen Ginsburg, and the American labor movement, was also the link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0oHPPhF_Q)
...birthplace of the industrial revolution in the US (because of easily available hydro-power from the nearby Passaic River, which Alexander Hamilton and others harnessed).
Paterson still has a lot of huge, well-illuminated (from natural light) surviving red brick industrial buildings from that period.
I don't know the current status of the buildings (besides the fact that the area recently attained status as a national historic park (https://www.nps.gov/pagr/learn/historyculture/the-birthplace-of-the-american-industrial-revolution.htm)) but my gut feeling is that, if one can deal with the issues of a community thats still struggling with lots of poverty, (IMHO the best way to do that would be by providing a resource that helped interested people learn about technology!) that it would be an ideal and welcoming place for a maker renaissance, with lots of available warehouse space, and that because of that rich tradition, something like a big maker space could likely get lots of support from the local community and maybe even grants from ???.
It sounds like the kind of proposal that can sometimes get supported by grant funds in various ways.
Because it helps people learn and get their lives going in a positive direction.
I should add the caveat though that parts of Paterson are still very poor, and it has its share of urban problems. The area near the falls however is pretty and there are still many visible remnants of a thriving industrial area.
Although the area has the classic Rust Belt feel, the huge old buildings have a lot going for them because of the habit back then of providing factories with lots of natural light. The ones that remain, (that have not already been torn down) for the most part have NOT fallen into quite the level of disrepair I've seen elsewhere.
You can check the area out using Google Earth.
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Paterson, NJ, birthplace of beat poet Allen Ginsburg, and the American labor movement, was also the link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB0oHPPhF_Q)
...birthplace of the industrial revolution in the US (because of easily available hydro-power from the nearby Passaic River, which Alexander Hamilton and others harnessed).
Paterson still has a lot of huge, well-illuminated (from natural light) surviving red brick industrial buildings from that period.
I don't know the current status of the buildings (besides the fact that the area recently attained status as a national historic park (https://www.nps.gov/pagr/learn/historyculture/the-birthplace-of-the-american-industrial-revolution.htm)) but my gut feeling is that, if one can deal with the issues of a community thats still struggling with lots of poverty, (IMHO the best way to do that would be by providing a resource that helped interested people learn about technology!) that it would be an ideal and welcoming place for a maker renaissance, with lots of available warehouse space, and that because of that rich tradition, something like a big maker space could likely get lots of support from the local community and maybe even grants from ???.
It sounds like the kind of proposal that can sometimes get supported by grant funds in various ways.
Because it helps people learn and get their lives going in a positive direction.
I should add the caveat though that parts of Paterson are still very poor, and it has its share of urban problems. The area near the falls however is pretty and there are still many visible remnants of a thriving industrial area.
Although the area has the classic Rust Belt feel, the huge old buildings have a lot going for them because of the habit back then of providing factories with lots of natural light. The ones that remain, (that have not already been torn down) for the most part have NOT fallen into quite the level of disrepair I've seen elsewhere.
You can check the area out using Google Earth.
This kind of reminded me that some rust belt cities might even have above average universities and other infrastructure built back in their heyday but the land price there plummeted due to the factories closing down. If Fran move there she might get easy access to materials and manufacturing services from the remaining factories, can just outright buy what remains of a closed down factory an sell whatever that is in the building to recoup some of the money, a steady source of well educated employees from the universities there, and MIT isn't far from there if she really need a star engineer on her team.
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but moving to NJ or a 'rust belt' state could be pretty depressing.
not quite moldova but not exactly ivy league . and NJ smells bad.
even driving through some parts of PA I was like 'damn' .
what is it, like ancient turn of the century ware houses with those slatted windows on the ceiling your supposed to open up to keep the heat down?
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The buildings I've seen have huge south facing windows, lots of them. This was because they were built before electricity was common, for natural light, when factories were largely powered by water. The mills were typically built right alongside major waterways. Those kinds of buildings, when renovated, are really nice.
That is, if they don't turn out to be filled with liquid mercury, as one in Hoboken, I think was. (Unusual situation which displaced an artists collective.)
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Just my 2c worth...
These replies seem to miss the point of the OP's video....
Fran clearly stated that she has a money problem both with money generally and money in the short term to pay for a move.
So the real issue seems to be revenue generation... There seem to be a number of approaches to that... The most obvious being YouTube ad revenue and Patreon but also Fran has a portfolio of products, both electronic and textile, that have made money in the past.
Perhaps the solution lies more in scaling those products to make money (and possibly outsourcing manufacture to places where labour and space is cheap)?
(Cost of premises is a universal problem... e.g. London Hackspace has just had to move out from central-ish London to the wilds of NW London for similar reasons)
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These replies seem to miss the point of the OP's video....
Fran clearly stated that she has a money problem both with money generally and money in the short term to pay for a move.
So the real issue seems to be revenue generation... There seem to be a number of approaches to that... The most obvious being YouTube ad revene and Patreon but also Fran has a portfolio of products, both electronic and textile, that have made money in the past.
Perhaps the solution lies more in scaling those products to make money (and possibly outsourcing manufacture to places where labour and space is cheap)?
(Cost of premises is a universal problem... e.g. London Hackspace has just had to move out from central-ish London to the wilds of NW London for similar reasons)
I think if she just did a GoFundMe to move, she'd get a fair amount.
I still think if she makes her budget and requirements public (for the space + living + how far she's willing to move) and get the crowd to work on finding a suitable place she'd find somewhere nice.
As someone who is currently searching for a bigger combined place, just assessing all the option in my current business park is hard work. There are probably dozen of nice options she hasn't even thought about.
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I believe that Dave has nailed it.
She has some loyal followers, and if each one donated say $20US, she would obtain a significant amount of money.
I certainly would.
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If she could get some kind of grant to do education for what she does that might help (may have to be for kids though, as adult education in the US is now commercial.)
Does anybody in Philadelphia get to live in boats? (Are there stable communities of boat-dwellers anywhere?) Owning a small boat (they might be sold by a previous resident who is leaving the area, cheap) is a good way to have a cheap(er)(sometimes), semi-permanent place to live in some areas. In the not too distant past it was like that in the Bay Area, with lots of small marinas, some of which were also communities of boat dwellers.
Don't know the situation now. Back then it was somewhere in cost between living in an RV and renting. (RV's are another possibility but they can also be a trap when they are not in good shape, as can boats)
One friend I had back in the day had spent I think around $30k to buy a small piece of a much larger boat that was shared by a bunch of people and used as a home and office space. It was in Sausalito. At Gate Five. He got a small suite of rooms out of the deal. It was a pretty big boat. Similar communities exist even on the usually insanely expensive Peninsula. (i.e Silicon Valley) At the edges of the Bay. Worth taking a trip around the edges of your local waterways to explore them on a nice weather (weekend) day and ask residents.. who will often be out enjoying the sun or working on their boats- now you know where to look. Also check out web sites for boaters. See the one below.
That seems like both potentially fun (if one makes the right choices which would seem to me to need help) and has the potential to be suitable for a semi-normal life.
At least with self-owned boats of moderate size, depending on the local environment for boat residents it may or may not have an advantage of being able to move it if your ability to tie it up in one place ends.
In SF, over the years I've had a number of friends who lived on their own, or shared boats. My mom who lived in Sausalito for a while in the 50s, before I was born, had friends who did too, back then. All sorts of artists and writers lived there back then and as far as I know, at least some still do.
Its (sometimes) less expensive than many other kinds of housing/rentals. Plus if you fix your boat up, you get the benefit of that work, not your landlord.
Flat boats, houseboats that are more for inland waterways than the ocean seem to be more appropriate for long term living. Bigger sailboats (with motors for backup) that are seaworthy are popular for living too, and there is a huge 'cruiser' community who travel and live on boats now. (Check out "Cruisers Forum" for info. The very cool boaters charting and navigation program OpenCPN is maintained by a core group of people who hang out there)
Boats aren't always cool.. they only are when they aren't holes people pour their money into - or traps for the unwary, which has always been my biggest fear (and should be Fran's)
This is where having a community of online supporters can really help. She has the best chance of finding a stable housing and work space if she's flexible in what she does next.
If only it wasn't for all that old "boat anchor" equipment it likely would be a lot easier for her. A small number of modern tools could likely replace a whole rack of old test equipment and work so much more flexibly she would never look back as far as most of it.
If in the future she finds a place to expand (not unlikely as many people get more resourceful in creative ways as we get older) she likely could rapidly accumulate a similar wealth of old test equipment quickly because of this housing and work space crunch. If someone has access to a vehicle, they often can get tech stuff for next to nothing, because its often advertised in local papers, craigslist for free, or close to it, if somebody would just come and pick it up.
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The weather in San Francisco is much more live-aboard friendly than in New England.
People do it (in very limited amounts) up here, but the winter conditions (cold, ice, snow) make for a "more sacrifices required" lifestyle than is true in climates without a deep winter.
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Good point (about the weather) Philly is quite a bit warmer than New England (in both winter and summer) but not quite Florida either. Not by a long shot.
I live not super far from there and although the weather is getting warmer, we're not even remotely at the point yet where its sub tropical.
Still, despite our cold winters, a few of the hardiest most cold-tolerant palms are beginning to be seen around here, in actual plantings (not pots)
although they all are pretty small, and subject to die back in a real cold snap.
Things I have read recently are making me wonder if perhaps the potential for very rapid climate change is increasing. Thats what experts seem to be saying now.
In particular, the situation with methane clathrate - is scary, Methane ice is trapped around the world in Arctic permafrost and along the coastal areas in the Continental shelf.
A look at the phase diagram for methane will show why its hydrate is problematic.
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I believe that Dave has nailed it.
She has some loyal followers, and if each one donated say $20US, she would obtain a significant amount of money.
I certainly would.
My idea was to make a "no IT knowledge required" cryptocurrency miner to help her. As an American, she should have no problem accepting Bitcoin which really expands what coins would be workable - basically any coin that's profitable to mine. I vote Curecoin/Foldingcoin to get some medical research done at the same time.
I thought about giving her my latest Amazon gift card from exchanging some Swagbucks, but had to abandon the idea since the exchange is not very trustworthy and best practice is to redeem the cards ASAP. (There's exactly one thing I like about Swagbucks and that's the high mining efficiency, even though it's way down compared to what it was last year.)
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Patreon video, but I'm sure will be released shortly, shows the task ahead of her in moving, and she has about 7 weeks before the building is knocked down.
She can of course "stay" until her lease is up in July ::) how generous of them.
They aren't buying out her lease.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKPjZxnOGG4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKPjZxnOGG4)
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I'm not surprised. Their permits probably don't allow them to work until all the leases were due up anyway. Typically permits aren't until done, you need a date so putting an early date in hopes you can start would be risky since it could shift your finish date. Of course in that case they can apply for new permits but why raise the costs for no reason.
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Patreon video, but I'm sure will be released shortly, shows the task ahead of her in moving, and she has about 7 weeks before the building is knocked down.
She can of course "stay" until her lease is up in July ::) how generous of them.
They aren't buying out her lease.
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
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Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
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Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
Exactly. The pressure to leave becomes unsurmountable, which may include recklessness (on purpose or not). I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
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Fran,
Snap out of that apathy and get busy with the move!
Clean out the stuff rarely used first, move it to temporary storage (or sell it) and go for something smaller than 2000 square feet, half of it will do fine. You will feel better when it's over, less boxed up junk in the lab, less shit to worry about. It's hard to feel sorry about your situation when most us make do with far less space, and less junk.
Use that insomnia for something useful instead of whining. If you need cash via Patreon or similar it's always easier by being specific, set goals where people can help with each part which also makes it less overwhelming. Looking forward to more of your videos about electronics, but no more whining, that sucks.
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i wanna see someone throw old vacuum tube at bull dozers
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Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
I agree. However from the video I also get the impression Fran is a bit of a hoarder as well. It seems to me 75% can be thrown away because A) it isn't used and B) it is cheaper to buy when needed instead of paying for storage.
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Too many home electronics labs looks like hoarder's rooms. It might be a professional disease, or some side effects caused by too much soldering fumes.
Please don't take this as offensive. I am an electronics hoarder myself, too.
Let's look for a moment at the funny side of owning "stuff". ^-^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac)
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I think it just comes with the territory. Engineers see the world differently, we know what's inside stuff, when something is broken we often see value in some of the parts contained within and think that some day we might repair the thing or harvest parts from it. I certainly do both of the above, although I also have a lot of stuff I haven't gotten around to doing anything with yet and may never.
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One idea would be to find something amongst all that hoarded stuff/junk that is worth $3500 and sell it. Then use this to rent a nearby 1 bed flat for 6 months. Use the existing building for 'storage' until most of the stuff is sold. Also, this gives time to find an alternative (smaller) premises. If you don't sell or dispose of all the excess in time then I guess you can leave some of the clutter behind to get demolished with the building.
Otherwise it is going to cost a lot of money to move and store that stuff and also fund somewhere to live.
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If you don't sell or dispose of all the excess in time then I guess you can leave some of the clutter behind to get demolished with the building.
I don't think leaving stuff is a good idea. I bet the lease contract says that the premises must be left clean. Leaving stuff usually means the land lord hires cleaners at your expense and they don't choose the cheapest ones.
I think it just comes with the territory. Engineers see the world differently, we know what's inside stuff, when something is broken we often see value in some of the parts contained within and think that some day we might repair the thing or harvest parts from it. I certainly do both of the above, although I also have a lot of stuff I haven't gotten around to doing anything with yet and may never.
That is the hoarder's prayer. I used to hoard stuff as well and in reality you use maybe 0.01% of it. The space to store it costs more than the components are worth. Things get different if you turn it into a repair business but then you have to be disciplined and throw the really old stuff out. For example: back in the day when I repaired PCs I bought some boxes with PC parts. So when I got to an older computer I'd always have a spare VGA card or IDE interface to fix an old PC cheap. When I stopped fixing PCs I threw most of the stuff out or sold it. Discipline is everything.
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i cant see accumulation of expensive high tech equipment as hording.
I always saw it as a test equipment library. Can you really fault someone for owning a library? So long you don;t have a pile of shit to the sealing and its ergonomic how is it hording?
If you had a nicely arranged library in your home thats dust free, properly maintained an ergonomic no one would say shit. One of my big regrets was selling a old vacuum powered electrometer. I thought I got a digital one, but shortly after I sold it I realized it's nice to have more then one when working on weird circuits like hybrid amplifiers.
To me it seems hording is almost always proportional to your wealth, because wealth is required for proper storage and organization. If someone kept a private library of easily accessible old news papers to archive their towns history or something, and it was neat, no one would say anything bad about it, other then notice someone has money to spend and they have a fancy of archival of information. At that point its considered a private library.
If the same library of old news papers was found in poor conditions, unorganized and stacked in a way thats condusive to fire hazard, mold etc.. then it would be considered the road to a mental illness... even if all the news papers are theoretically readable...
But to follow best practice in manufacturing, like making test circuits in data sheets and all that stuff to categorize your circuits well, you need ALOT of stuff. Look at the PROPER requirements for something like a spectrum analyzer calibration (as per a HP manual). Its a room full of shit for one thing.
If you deviate that means you trust yourself to do research, compare equipment, etc. this can take alot of time for weird tests. Some people want to do it right and don't want to follow rules of thumb that work most of the time or spend their lives becoming a 'substitution expert'. While valuable for a companies bottom line, its not necessarily pleasant to do something like categorize an unknown comb generator to to some test... or figure out why you might get away without needing one
Same with high end mechanical shop. Imagine having all the go-no go gauges, different calipers, different standards etc.. quickly it looks alot different then shoving a bridge port, few end mills and calipers in your garage and calling it a equipped machine shop
Reading this thread I see alot of 'commercial get her done' talk, not actual deep interest in underlying physics, quality, etc.
I call this 'transfer functionitus', where you start to save money and time by making assumptions or making transfer functions equal to eachother in your head in order to solve electrical problems. There is alot more to engineering/design then just transfer functions. Also the more you get into metrology the harder it is to make substitutes. Everything starts to appear as a specifically engineered solution to a specific problem
TLDR:
"u don't work for NASA LOL NO NEED' (and the ~ is EVERYWHERE in your work)
Same thing for shop tools. I did work with my old family crap before I accumulated my own stuff and got used to working at a certain pace, at a certain stress level and certain expected quality per time/energy investment.
When I got higher quality tools of my own, more optimized to the tasks even with things like simple ergonomics, cordless, etc.. all aspects of the job were improved so long I planned out how to use everything. When I got certain tools I got criticism (whats the difference with the drill we had), then after a year I am the one complaining my tools don't get put back in the right spot. Sometimes it was the smallest most insignificant detail that changed how a problem is solved... to the point where I was scared that I wasted money.
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Fran, you've accumulated far too much stuff, you got to sell some of it, stuff is nice to have but do you really need it ? Sell the stuff you don't use or the stuff that gets seldom use, it's a difficult decision because there is always that "I can use it for this or that" excuse so I will keep it. What is important is the stuff you carry around in your head, the ideas, the projects, the knowlege you can pass on to others, that's something you carry around all day 24/7 and it takes up optimum storage space. It's what is in your head, your persona, that's what defines you woman and not the shiney toys, so just ditch the shiney toys because they are luggage you don't need.
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I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
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I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning
I wasn't calling the equipment toys but more like the attitude of the collectors, look at me I've got a whole shelf full of toys I seldom use.
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I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Even the highest quality equipment becomes old junk at some point. It is not easy to see because you get older as well. I have fallen into that trap myself by buying equipment which was way too old. Nowadays you can often buy better performing equipment which is much smaller and/or cheaper. It is better to have less space to fill because it forces you to think about what you really need in order to be effective. Having one oscilloscope which can do 3 things well is better and easier than 3 old boat anchors each with their quirks and short comings. Sometimes less really is better.
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I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Even the highest quality equipment becomes old junk at some point. It is not easy to see because you get older as well. I have fallen into that trap myself by buying equipment which was way too old. Nowadays you can often buy better performing equipment which is much smaller and/or cheaper.
The problem is that in many cases, the modern replacement just doesn't have the charm of the original. It's not very difficult to build a digital audio player that will outperform any record player, but it just isn't the same overall experience.
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I sort of feel like the osciloscope is a edge case in terms of test equipment. Its something thats really useful to everyone so I feel like its been hyper focused on for development.
But in terms of practical use, its difficult to compare a quality tektronix analog oscilloscope to something like a rigol 1052e. I find low end oscilloscopes downright annoying to use, plus you need to consider all the very advanced plugins that were made for certain scopes. With low end stuff you can get hit by firmware bugs.
I actually think that just now you can start to get really good quality digital scopes.. I think I also prefer the trigger system on older scopes.
There is also the repair factor, which can be a big thing, and the up time factor, if your scope breaks and its real expensive you can be in a world of hurt (say a 8000$ scope vs some 100$ old ebay deal).
But some other stuff, like power supplies, there is little reason for the modern ones. Something like a old lambda precision series PSU is a great value, and other then the fact that the display is limited, its very stable, very low noise and very cheap. I would actually consider it a questionable business decision to buy things like a 800$ wheras you can get like 3-5 high quality power supplies (between 1-3 channels each) on ebay for the same price, or even more, to have redundancy and ruggedness, high quality parts being used, established documentation.
I think that tools useful for digital circuit work have reduced in cost vastly, but still, I would never use a freaking bus pirate over something like a 1660 logic analyzer system, and there are even merits to using things like serial mainframes/mini computer things for some work so you have known good hardware that will work. Easy to access setup, quality cables, good UI, your never gonna be writing fucking useless code to test blink LED's if you have a setup like that.
This is a bit of a stretch, but take something like a PLUTOSDR that I bought. Extremely cheap, extremely good capabilities for the cost in terms of digital/communications work.. but I have had to struggle to use it, pretty much I need to run a separate with a version of linux I don't like to make the thing work, without too much work, otherwise I will be on linux forums all day.
All the minaturization and modern design trends are not all peachy IMO.
I for instance have some Sorensen power supplies for high current use, which are remarkably small and light for their power output but they are a complete bitch to fix, built super compact.. I actually would prefer to dedicate a space to a big old hunking linear supply to work with for the same power levels.. and they are pretty noisy (in both senses) too. I don't wanna deal with that shit when I am making a prototype really. I see it as something to use post development on a test bench after some high power subassembly is already tested in categorized, to approximate what can happen in a realistic power use scenario (where you might use something like a meanwell switcher of the right kind to power it). You end up dealing with more variables that can mask intrinsic problems.
I have a large 3A/8V power supply from HP. Made in 1960. All I ever needed to do with it was replace capacitor.. I see no reason why its junk or why I should replace it with anything else. I can take it off the shelf, put it anywhere I want and do something like a circuit burn in, remote module test, all sorts of things, with no effort to build a power supply, relocate primary lab units, etc. Boat anchor digital stuff often has weird input ranges that make it robust too. You can conveniently probe some weird signal level along with all the other ones without making adapters etc. If its some gigantic digital stream your gonna need to go with the poorly engineered cheap modern solution, but for nuts and bolt shit, keep it in a drawer. So much less frustrating.
But to be fair, I do have a fair bit of damaged/broke gear that is partially usable. But a economic and space analysis shows me that it siting on a cheap wire rack in the basement, with its cost, still is worth while compared to buying pricier equipment.. just the psychological factor is hard to get over sometimes. It mostly stays broke because there are fucking annoying ass design features which make it hard to fix (there is a HP function generator made of 4 PCB's all connected to each other in a cube made out of card edge connectors). Complete bitch to probe compared to some things. But I consider it a outlier compared to some other stuff. But I have also been getting side tracked alot and not planning it well. If I had to do it for a job, rather then enjoyment, it would all be fixed promptly with minor investment... I could strip and solder in the 40 or whatever bodge wires pretty quickly so it can be laid out on a bench and fixed, but I just dont wanna do that in my free time... if I got paid to do it though it would be done in a jiffy
with it being a hobby its just so easy to find other more entertaining things you can do once you reach a critical mass of crap...
***I do pitty the fool that does not have a digital oscilloscope
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Too many home electronics labs looks like hoarder's rooms. It might be a professional disease, or some side effects caused by too much soldering fumes.
Please don't take this as offensive. I am an electronics hoarder myself, too.
I won't show a photo of the current state of my 44sqm storage bunker...
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQsGiiPVFo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bQsGiiPVFo)
for some reason this song comes to mind with some of the responses in this thread, in regards to being condescending lol
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She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location? As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?
I tend to believe that the problem is mainly psychological and not practical reasons. Tired of moving, bored of the process etc.
Alexander.
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She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?
My guess is 1k patreons, after all fees and taxes, means way, way less than $1500.
https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon
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When are you guys going to realize that relying on donations is not a sustainable business model. If what Fran is doing is not making her living she should think about doing something different. Like it or not.
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?
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I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?
I do live in my own place, and have done so for many years. But not everybody does, because not everybody has a sufficient (and sufficiently steady) income to afford property and convince the bank to bridge the gap. Or people live in rented property by choice, because they actually want to stay flexible and mobile: In Germany, only 45% of the population own the place they live in. The cost of selling and buying a new place adds up to around 10% of the property value; so you are far less mobile once you own property.
But whether someone lives in rented space by choice or by necessity -- I would not demand that they reduce their lives to the contents of a couple of suitcases. Or tell them "that will teach you" when things go wrong and they have to (painfully) figure out new solution for their life.
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She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?
My guess is 1k patreons, after all fees and taxes, means way, way less than $1500.
https://theoutline.com/post/2571/no-one-makes-a-living-on-patreon
I calculated that if supporters were to use some old smartphones/tablets to mine Swagbucks (at current profitability - i.e. including the recent halving) and send her all the profit, it would only take a little more than 100 supporters (each running one old smartphone/tablet) to basically double her donation income.
Now I wonder how to make use of that to actually help her. If I release the code used to make my miner run so well, would supporters be encouraged to set up their own mining rigs and pass a significant amount of the profit onto her or would all I end up accomplishing is destroy the only thing I like about Swagbucks - the high mining profitability?
There are other coins to mine, of course. Given it's entering winter in the northern hemisphere, maybe some less efficient coins are also worth considering?
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?
I don't think owning or renting a place is the issue. Even if you own a place you can be evicted for various reasons (toxic ground, unstable ground, building a road, etc, etc). The trick is to buy or rent something which is not going to be subject to those kind of problems.
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I don't drive so for me it's public transport. Last year I was made redundant, owed two months salary and was living away from home in a single rented room, quite a large room. No money for rent so I sold the two TEK7000 scopes and all of the plugins. Had enough to pay the rent and I managed to bundle all of the other miscellaneous crap into a taxi to get me the 150 miles back home.
It was an easy decision to sell the TEK gear, I needed the money and didn't have room for it back home. Loads of stuff just went into the local "electrical waste" recycling bin, some of which I regret, but you got to make tough choices. It took me about a week to sort everything out and finally move, dump the stuff you don't need and pack to stuff you might need. Managed to get it all into three 42L plastic storage containers and one of them was for books ! In the six years living and working away from home I had managed to collect a reasonable sized pile of stuff and out of 5 scopes I sold two, dumped two and kept a working one. Maybe I should have kept the 2465 and 2235 both with only one working channel but they came with the 54610B at auction. That was my biggest regret.
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I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
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I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
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Good luck Fran.
Sure if she owned the place there would be no question. Sure if she was making a lot more money it would be easier. Not everyone does either though.
A lot of creative people tend to accumulate tools and parts and think more about their passion and making stuff than about potential long-term issues.
That's just how it is. As long as it's not hurting anyone...
Since we don't know squat about her life outside of this (at least I don't), there's not much we can say. Just hope she'll be able to relocate without having to give up too much.
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I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
Sure, and that can vary case to case. However most people I've known end up collecting stuff they don't need over time(For working or hobbies). I was an automotive technician who moved into electronics design. I have 2 10' wide, 3' deep, 8' tall shelves in the garage, a large and a small toolbox, 4 large inside shelving units, and 2 decent size workbenches(one for each discipline). I have way more stuff I could get rid of than I need. Probably close to 4:1, in volume it'd be even greater. I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of anything not damn near worth its weight in gold and if it makes you money it probably is. Some stuff will absolutely make sense to keep, way more isn't worth the hassle if I had issues. I stopped using storage units years ago because I decided if I was storing it, it was likely losing me money. I'd be better off selling it or getting rid of it rather than letting it get old(er) in storage and paying for the privilege.
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I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
That's two different perspectives on "gear" business or hobby. How much gear do you really need and Fran has collected one hell of a lot gear. So if there is anyone in Philly please drop by Frans lab and give her a hand to help sort shit out or a least organise and help pack it, the clock is counting.
How many guitar effects pedals did FranTone Labs sell ? I don't know I don't play guitar.
That's the problem with creative people, we are like moths we flit from one "light bulb" to another, and collect all of the gear we need for the next "light bulb".
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Reminds me of an old Mad TV skit where Oprah is explaining how she deals with post-9/11 economic uncertainty: “Three words: Buy. A. Mountain!”
https://youtu.be/pzsErLOip-Y
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
It is a bit condescending. And yet, if you’re used to what it’s like renting in Europe, it may come as a shock that it’s also totally true. In most places in USA you can be kicked out with little to no notice. The US’s history as a place where homeownership is expected (outside of a few major cities), means that renting has always had a clear “second rate citizen” status. It’s something you do because you’re young and haven’t figured things out yet, goes the story. That it’s untrue, and that we need to create more equitable relations between landlords and tenants, gets forgotten in the “homeownership is the goal” chatter.
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
Engineers tend to lack tact.
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I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
That's two different perspectives on "gear" business or hobby. How much gear do you really need and Fran has collected one hell of a lot gear.
Fran has lots of interests, that tends to accumulate more stuff as a result.
Her Twitter username is ContourCorsets, she's had a sewing business for a long time as well.
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The life of a renter. Not an exclusive club.
I’m not even sure why this is a thread. There’s a period I moved more often than Fran mentioned.
I just sold up a large and rare collection of retro computing in anticipation of it.
It’s heartbreaking, but I don’t expect the details to interest anyone else.
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The life of a renter. Not an exclusive club.
I’m not even sure why this is a thread.
Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
I'm looking at a big move right now. I currently own the lab and rent the 2nd office. This was always a stop-gap because the 50sqm lab was too small and buying a larger space wasn't really an option. My required 100sqm would cost >$800k. And it's next to impossible to get credit for commercial property.
So the options are:
1) Stay with what I've got.
2) Consolidate the lab and office into one bigger rented space, and then rent out my lab space.
I have found I space I like, the rent is reasonable, but they are being aggressive on terms. I'm not sure what to do.
Why bring it up? Because it impacts my audience too, I'd have to move the entire lab and set it up practically from scratch again.
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Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
Viewership is typically far less than 10k views per video. Looks like some significant downsizing is required with funds being raised by selling some of that stuff. The move itself looks like a major endeavor.
Over the past few months I have been looking at my own stuff, in the context of making a will, and thinking how awful it would be to sort this out after I am gone. I'm planning on selling or throwing my hoard but it is hard work parting with things that might have a use in the future ;)
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The hoarders back in 1588 had a solution
http://www.openculture.com/2017/09/behold-the-book-wheel-the-renaissance-invention-created-to-make-books-portable-help-scholars-study-1588.html (http://www.openculture.com/2017/09/behold-the-book-wheel-the-renaissance-invention-created-to-make-books-portable-help-scholars-study-1588.html)
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That might be true, but it’s not the crux of the OP, nor what it occurs to me the video is about.
I relate to it sure, but sympathy, not from me.
In your case, I’d guess the move would be quite the undertaking, but in Fran’s case... I’m quite sure my stuff is much heavier, at least as much drama, and at least as often.
I’m glad I don’t work on vehicles.
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Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
Viewership is typically far less than 10k views per video.
What does that imply?, that's it's not worth discussing here?
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Looks like some significant downsizing is required with funds being raised by selling some of that stuff.
I don't think that needs to be the case, and I've outlined a plan to help with that.
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are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
i noticed in USA i heard stuff like 'sell it' quite a bit. It was always a fucked up last measure in my head. It's much less stressful to borrow money then to sell property.
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are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.
That can make it very uneconomic, to regularly buy and sell (move) property. Because a significant chunk of the money (in percentage terms), goes straight to the government. So, if you borrowed most of the money, anyway. The loss is especially hard hitting.
Hypothetical countries example:
Loan $250,000 to buy property.
24 months later, sell for $250,000
You now owe the government $25,000 (or some percentage)
You still owe the loan people $250,000
So you have to somehow magic up $25,000 plus all the loan interest rates and other bills.
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are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
i noticed in USA i heard stuff like 'sell it' quite a bit. It was always a fucked up last measure in my head. It's much less stressful to borrow money then to sell property.
If you have a short-term, temporary cash crunch and otherwise strong prospects for mid and long-term income, borrowing is better than selling useful assets.
If you have a long-term, structural deficiency on your income statement, borrowing money is only going to delay and worsen the inevitable day of reckoning and selling assets might be a better course of action.
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are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.
If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.
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are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.
If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.
Same in the UK (capital gains tax), but I know little about Australia, so that is interesting to know, thanks!
Despite being the other side, of a big planet. It is amazing (at least to me), how much similarity there is between the UK and Australia. Driving on the left, language, etc etc.
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Despite being the other side, of a big planet. It is amazing (at least to me), how much similarity there is between the UK and Australia. Driving on the left, language, etc etc.
Strange... I wonder how that came about... ::) ;)
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Strange... I wonder how that came about... ::) ;)
If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.
Ignoring obvious language differences.
I somewhat consider Germany, more similar (especially culturally) to the UK, than America.
Despite the history, of how the UK/Britain's involvement with the creation of America/Australia etc.
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If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.
Some English subjects didn't want to stay in England and sailed to the new America, changing some bits just to make a statement.
Some English subjects wanted to stay but was forced to sail to Australia.
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Back on topic.
Because Fran is just one person, there seems to be a huge amount of stuff and not much time to deal with the situation.
I think that things are not going to go, too well.
But maybe Fran's apparent intention, to put a huge number of things, into more storage, may ease up the situation enough, to give her time to settle things better in the longer term.
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Strange... I wonder how that came about... ::) ;)
If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.
Ignoring obvious language differences.
I somewhat consider Germany, more similar (especially culturally) to the UK, than America.
Despite the history, of how the UK/Britain's involvement with the creation of America/Australia etc.
It's almost as though the radically different histories of USA and Australia could have had an impact on the end result!
As for USA vs Germany… (FYI, I'm an American who's lived in Europe for about 17 years.) Well, for one thing, "German" is the #1 self-identified background in USA, even above English, Irish, Italian, etc. And let me tell you, northern Germany is clearly where many American traditions came from. But ultimately, USA is a melting pot of countless influences.
As for differences in English by country: USA tends to have retained the historical (original) forms of many words which then changed in British English (and from there went on to be exported to the younger colonies). For example, the widely known difference in "can/can't" (where American English pronounces the vowels the same, while British English pronounces them differently) is not the result of American laziness (as is usually claimed), but because that was the original form, the form used when the American colonies were established.
Add to this new words added to both vocabularies, changes that happened on one side or the other, and the influx in USA of other native English speakers (namely, Irish and Scottish, and the occasional Welsh), and it's no surprise the accents are different. But at the same time, it's important IMHO not to dwell on the 0.1% that's different, and instead to remember the 99.9% that's the same. :)
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What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
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Well, in the UK we have a kind of financial bubble in which houses fetch crazy prices, far more than they are worth. In fact it isn't so much the house that's worth that amount, but the land. You can pay almost as much for a plot with planning permission as land with a completed house. Whilst a plot which can't get permission to build is worth little. At the same time, interest rates on savings are next to nil. The lack of returns on other ways to invest money pushes investors to buy-up land or housing as an investment, and that exacerbates the housing price problem.
Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.
I've often thought of moving to other European countries where I could have a far better house and workshop, and some cash to spare, for the price of this place. That, and the taxes would be lower. Of course the incomes are lower too, that's the only thing.
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{I've intentionally NOT replied to the secondary "English/UK" discussion, I accidentally seemed to have started. In an attempt to NOT derail the thread. Which could be important, for Fran. Sorry, if it affects you}
If Fran is truly, fed up with moving and all the hassle of dealing with huge amounts of equipment. Being moved from place to place and re-installed/sorted-out in the "new" premises.
Then, significant reduction in the amount of stuff she has, is probably required.
Just putting it all into extra storage, is only really a very short term fix.
I feel sorry for her. Because the more I think about it. The more of a problem, I can see with her current situation.
It is annoying that they are (in real terms), NOT giving Fran plenty of notice/time to sort things out.
They should be compensating her, for the shortened lease/contract time, as well.
I guess life can be hard, at times.
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are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.
If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.
surely that would depend on there being a gain
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Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. Almost always in the cases I've seen, the storage bill far outweighs the value if the items.
IMHO the only time a storage unit makes sense is when there is a short term need with a finite timespan and a well thought out plan for dealing with it. We used one once to deal with an influx of stuff from a deceased relative so their house could be sold but we decided ahead of time it would be for no more than 3 months and then set right to work going through things deciding what to keep, what to sell and what to give away. I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
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Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. Almost always in the cases I've seen, the storage bill far outweighs the value if the items.
IMHO the only time a storage unit makes sense is when there is a short term need with a finite timespan and a well thought out plan for dealing with it. We used one once to deal with an influx of stuff from a deceased relative so their house could be sold but we decided ahead of time it would be for no more than 3 months and then set right to work going through things deciding what to keep, what to sell and what to give away. I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
That is similar to what I fear is going to happen.
I get the impression from the unpublished-video in this thread, that Fran, is (sadly) in denial of this situation.
They really need to NOT have a lot of the stuff. There are all sorts of ways of getting it to a good home or disposing of stuff.
I'm too far away to help (directly), and would probably not be the right sort of person, to be able to help, either.
But they just seem to have far too much stuff, and don't seem to properly realize it.
Without a massive home or workshop, they are going to get into big difficulties.
I think the real problem here, is they have way too much stuff. If they had a normal amount of stuff, like most people. This would be an easy problem to sort out.
Find a new rented or bought place and spend a day moving the stuff into it. Problem sorted.
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I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;)
Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...
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I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
In Chicago, they used to just hire crackheads to break into your place to "burglarize" it every 3 weeks until you leave.
If I had nothing better to do, 9 months left on my lease, and no buyout offer, I might consider buying every type of insurance to cover any theft or incidental damage and maybe come out on top, lol. If your lease is costing the owner hundreds of thousands of dollars, they could at least make a decent offer for a buyout.
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I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;)
Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
Which accumulates over the years, to become a somewhat big total, of fairly wasted money.
Which would be better spent, towards buying somewhere permanent to live or other things.
I.e. Maybe it would be better, to treat the situation, like a failed/bankrupt business.
Have a big "fire" sale, and get rid of most of the stuff.
I guess it's easier said than done, in practice.
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Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. […] Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
Indeed. I wouldn't recommend anyone get a storage unit for long-term occupancy unless they have a really good, usable inventory system to keep track of what's in there and also exactly where in the storage unit each item is. Preferably they would also reasonably expect to put in and take out items on a regular basis, such that they keep the storage unit and contents in mind.
Regarding Fran & Dave downsizing: Why not sell stuff to subscribers and other fans? That would keep the equipment in good hands, and raise a bit of money for moving. Possibly add a condition that the buyer give yearly updates on what they've done with it, even if the update is nothing more than "it's still here" or "I sold it on", to ease everyone's minds about nixie gear getting scrapped and the like.
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Before you sell you need to inventory the stuff, then you need to ship the items, let alone create listings for sale. This is huge work.
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Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.
This isn't true - the problem with UK vs other EU countries like Germany are 6 month short hold tenancies. You WILL be kicked out every 6 months by default if your landlord decides there are better paying tenants or just doesn't like you on a whim, or that the latest batch of "refugees" are far more profitable as they are paid and guaranteed by the state.
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What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Google “glottal stop”. It’s a common sound in many languages.
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She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location? As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?
I tend to believe that the problem is mainly psychological and not practical reasons. Tired of moving, bored of the process etc.
She is hiding her donation dollar total, which many people do, but it could be anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per month ($951 x $1-3).
For comparison: Dave $2.73 donation per person, Julian I. $1.56, Micah $4.33. Its nice that some post the info publicly to compare.
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Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.
This isn't true - the problem with UK vs other EU countries like Germany are 6 month short hold tenancies. You WILL be kicked out every 6 months by default if your landlord decides there are better paying tenants or just doesn't like you on a whim, or that the latest batch of "refugees" are far more profitable as they are paid and guaranteed by the state.
here that is because if the contract is not time limited, the landlord lets the renter stay beyond the limits and bunch of other traps it basically
becomes interminable
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She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location? As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?
I know plenty of people that live paycheck to paycheck and are constantly "broke" and need to borrow money for any trouble in their life. Sure, they have a retirement account worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. But they are "broke," and that's the story they stick with.
this is the new modern day thing. Socking away most of your savings into a 401K, have a nice retirement account, and still live the bohemian life.
But if she's making 1000 a month from Youtube and she's actually broke, then she probably makes a large percentage of her income from Youtube, compared to w/e she's doing with the other 1500 square feet of metro real estate/workshop/production (making guitar pedals/effects or w/e she does). Maybe she ought to take a trip to the dumpster and downsize a little, if she wants to stay in the city. Focus on what brings in the net profit per square foot of lease.
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the bohemian life is pretty shit.
people get stuck doing that stuff. leaving the lights on turns into some kind of capital offense. don't you notice your sanity slowly leaving you around those kinds of people?
went to college, designed high tech equipment for rich people, pp&j on toast for lunch? :scared:
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Only an idiot would dip into their 401k to pay for day to day expenses. Most people greatly underestimate the amount of money they need to retire and do not save nearly enough, not the other way around. This is one reason that retirement is a pipe dream for many.
Taking in $1k/month would be poverty in this area. You'd be lucky to scrape by renting a room in someone's house and relying on public transit.
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What is the city she lives?
Alexander.
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What is the city she lives?
Alexander.
It is perfectly acceptable to actually read the thread (or at least, say, the original post) before asking questions. :P
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What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Google “glottal stop”. It’s a common sound in many languages.
Or ask any native of the East End of London to pronounce "glottal stop" for you — a dialect in which that phrase is self-defining, alright Guv?
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She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?
She is hiding her donation dollar total, which many people do, but it could be anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per month ($951 x $1-3).
Fran for whatever reason has a few trolls that post in every single one of her videos.
Comments like "stop begging for money" "what is this [swear word]" etc.
It's about the time this started, that she hid the total donation amount.
My understanding is the donations cover the youtube channel and related projects, without that money the channel would be abandoned mostly a the time spent making things to sell instead.
However given the recent landlord decision to screw Fran out of a year's lease, she needs the money.
To the fools telling Fran to just bin most of her stuff, and move into a caravan or something. You owe Fran an apology.
You have no idea what Fran owns, what she uses it for, or what it's worth.
If someone binned your most useful but ugly looking tool/machine as it was taking up space, you would be livid.
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But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price
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Regarding Fran & Dave downsizing
I'm not downsizing, in fact I'm upsizing, I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
And I'll be saving money by upsizing actually.
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I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
I hope it was selected purely on the basis of the other tenants.... i.e. the dumpster room potential :)
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But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price
So about £16 per square foot per annum - which is the standard way of thinking about commercial rents in the UK. To put that into perspective, the current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
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I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
I hope it was selected purely on the basis of the other tenants.... i.e. the dumpster room potential :)
Same dumpster room!
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The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
:o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.
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It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...
(https://www.history.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_768/MTU3ODc5MDg0MDE5MzYxNTAz/vladimir-lenin-portrait.jpg)
Does anyone actually have alot of respect for their land lord? :-DD
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The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
:o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.
The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.
Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?
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It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...
Maybe that owner actually worked running a factory or doing R&D to afford to buy the land in the first place?
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The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
:o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.
The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.
Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?
That would usually include some joint facilities management fees (which are almost inescapable in UK rented commercial properties) but excludes everything else. UK commercial property has always been expensive and recent (10-20 yrs) general shifts in the property market have made it even more so. You can get better rates in the north of England, but most technology companies are in the South/South East where rents are the highest. At the very bottom end it can be a little cheaper, renting a single (grotty) office with a desk over a local shop would set me back £300 per month.
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It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...
Does anyone actually have alot of respect for their land lord? :-DD
At somewhere along the way, rather than using money to consume, someone used money to invest in land, buildings, or other rentable improvements. That they are now reaping the benefit of that foregone consumption is no more offensive to me than someone enjoying the shade of a tree they planted 20 years earlier.
I respected all three of my individual landlords. One was a divorced woman renting a third of her house where she'd done some remodeling to block off a hallway, add a kitchen and bath, and make what would be an illegal apartment in most cities (but out in the unincorporated area, it was likely legally unfettered). She was giving up a third of her house to me to make ends meet. The second was a mid-60s (estimated) handyman who converted his basement of a split-level into a similar setup and renting to me to make ends meet. The third was a real-estate agent who bought a triplex, lived in the bottom unit, rented the top two out to make the mortgage, then moved out and bought another triplex to continue to the same process and I moved into his old owner's unit. He was doing better financially than the previous two, but there was an obvious linkage between his sacrifice (of time and money) and the little real estate empire he was beginning to build for himself.
So, yes, I have a lot of respect for all three of them. The commercial landlord I rented from I have no information or knowledge of, but given that their investment allowed me to live in a place that I enjoyed and couldn't afford to buy and that they lived up to every aspect of their end of the lease, I also respect them.
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The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
:o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.
The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.
Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?
Yes, my price does not include "outgoings" as they are called here.
The smaller the office gets the more expensive per sqm. For example, my current office is about $500 sqm for the 33sqm, $400sqm for a larger one, again, not including outgoings. But it's probably the best and most prestigious building in the park and has a front desk concierge. Really schmick, I hate to leave it actually.
In the park across the road you can get large office spaces for under $200 sqm, like this random one:
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-nsw-castle+hill-502666534 (https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-nsw-castle+hill-502666534)
The combined warehouse/office thing is cheaper again at about $180sqm
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-industrial+warehouse-nsw-castle+hill-502898898 (https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-industrial+warehouse-nsw-castle+hill-502898898)
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My old lab will be available for rent shortly, anyone want me as landlord? ;D
Actually, most commercial (and residential) places are run by management agencies, so you never really know who your landlord actually is.
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Fran should maybe investigate rural-ish western PA - the rural areas around Pittsburgh, in Washington County, etc.
I don't know the situation around Philadelphia but rural western PA is extremely depressed and yet not that far from "civilization".
I'd donate to a GoFundMe.
(This thread is increasing my resolve to hold a garage sale.)
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But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price
It is a fairly expensive thing, at those prices.
For you, with a thriving YouTube and other stuff, business. You can justify (business case) and afford it.
Similarly, if the area in the US's, storage rental rates can drop enough, in a unpopular, not so convenient location. Which I hope is possible, but I'm not familiar enough with the US, to be sure.
Maybe Fran's YouTube and business activities, can afford the storage.
If they CAN'T afford them, then solutions, such as downsizing, need to be considered.
But maybe Fran could raise prices (on the other activities) and attempt to make more money via the YouTube things.
In fairness to Fran and others, stuff in life costs money. If Fran has effectively created a tiny/modest TV channel like thing (YouTube), then there is a need for some revenues to come in and pay for things, like rent etc.
I've seen and enjoyed some of Fran's videos, in the past. Such as weird, somewhat long forgotten, display devices. Which they very determinedly, researched and got it working, for the video. It was very nice to watch.
Actually, I've just had a look, to refresh my memory.
I've really enjoyed, lots of Fran's videos, on various rare things. Such as rare electronics kits, rare LED's, space related electronics etc.
I'm now beginning to feel guilty. I'm not particularly good, at brand recognition. I tend to just watch interesting videos, without necessarily remembering the channel it was. I'd forgotten how many of Fran's videos I'd watched and enjoyed.
Unfortunately, I'm the sort of person, who watches electronics related videos, but who doesn't send any money. (I don't want to admit my adblock status, but you can probably guess ).
In the case of Daves EEVblog, he does sometimes sell things, which I am at least tempted to buy, at times. Such as multimeters, and microcurrent devices. So, sooner or later, I could end up contributing, indirectly, financially.
This post has got, too big, sorry.
Modern life seems to have created this YouTube channels thing, whereby MOST viewers, can just not directly pay any money for it (i.e. it is "free"). Rightly or wrongly, that is the way of the world (of youtube), at the moment. But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.
i.e. A sort of Netflix for YouTube. So if you watch lots of electronics related videos, they get a significant chunk of your subscription to youtube. Hence can carry on, doing their stuff.
But I'm a tiny/minute cog, in a massive machine, full of giant cogs, so can't initiate changes like this, myself. Unless I turn into Bill Gates, or similar, and do it myself.
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And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;)
Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...
That sounds like a good way to waste a lot of really valuable stuff potentially. No sense in throwing the baby out with the bath water, at least take some time to go through it, I regularly find treasures I forgot I had or didn't know what I had done with when I clean out a closet or the garage.
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Before you sell you need to inventory the stuff, then you need to ship the items, let alone create listings for sale. This is huge work.
What I've done a few times and helped others do is do is first do a quick sort between keep and dispose of, then do another quick sort through the dispose of pile, cherry picking all the stuff that I'm fairly sure will fetch enough to be worth the trouble of selling, then I get a bunch of flat rate boxes from the post office and start listing a few items each evening on ebay, packing them up in a shipping box as I finish listing them. Then I start going through the less valuable stuff and make some collections of similar stuff and list these for sale as small lots, then if I have time I list some of the lower value stuff or just give it away. Anything not worth selling that I can't give away, that's when I consider tossing it out. The key is to make sure you deal with a few items every day, until it's all gone.
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But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price
It is a fairly expensive thing, at those prices.
For you, with a thriving YouTube and other stuff, business. You can justify (business case) and afford it.
I actually own my own 44sqm storage unit and rent it to myself ;D (yes, it's legal)
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But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.
They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
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I actually own my own 44sqm storage unit and rent it to myself ;D (yes, it's legal)
That makes perfect sense. The UK is similar, where similar things are done, to (usually fully legally), allow you to pay the tax you need to, but not more. But some extreme tax saving schemes are both morally wrong (arguably), and potentially illegal these days. Which for example, some massive plc companies do.
They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
I will seriously consider that, for the coming future.
Google messed up partly, because some time ago, I was seriously considering getting it. But then found out, that at that time, it was NOT available in the UK :(
Now that it is available, I can look into it.
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But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.
They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
Alas, only available in a few handfuls of countries. :(
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Youtube is down hard at the moment - can't be good for anyone's video based business!
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It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...
Maybe that owner actually worked running a factory or doing R&D to afford to buy the land in the first place?
Good point. ;D
Thing is, in some countries, real productive work is actually taxed more than rental income. That's probably this part that is highly debatable, not the fact you can make money off owning a property - and the fact that some owner actually worked hard (and got taxed accordingly at the time) to own a property (which is not always the case but obviously happens) doesn't really change the idea that this tax policy is biased.
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Lots of people who put stuff in storage lose their possessions to the bills, which mount up. It ends up being auctioned off to whomever shows up with cash.
And its just heartbreaking to see people pleading to get some prized item, family photo or important document out of the auction items. Lots of the time, of course, they dont even know its going to be sold, not having an address to receive the notification at. Evictions and homelessness in the US are at all time highs.
Best to just sell the bulky stuff and not put things in storage unless they are really irreplaceable. The cost is too high for storing anything like old electronics unless it really is valuable. Not just interesting.
Personally, I think its a bubble that is bound to break. There is less and less real wealth creation, much of what we see is just churning, money-mad landlords displacing good tenants like Fran in order to get some pie in the sky deal that may never pan out.
Last I looked my old apartment in SF was still on the market for one and a half million dollars. Or had it been sold and then resold. It doesnt matter. It was a nice top floor flat. I lived there a long time, and it made me really ill. A super toxic challenge for anybidy because the mold was just inside everythunbg inside the walls and they never cleaned it out. Just painted it over. beware, the inside of the building's walls were is a mold trap.
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Now I own and my walls are my own. Thank god.
Looking to finish a survey of my house I am doing for Photogrammetry
Dense point cloud....
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Thing is, in some countries, real productive work is actually taxed more than rental income.
Such as Finland, with work-based income taxed quickly at 70%, while capital income is at 34% max. (Both progressive as of now, but the latter is almost linear.)
The progressivity which quickly gets over 50% causes interesting things, and the whole system works around no one actually getting a big payroll, but through other legal, "gray" or even illegal ways, so after this, we basically have a non-progressive tax system. For example, we have a system in which the employer can pay tax free money for the employee driving their own car quite arbitrarily, by a rate much more than the car maintaining or fuel costs, which encourages people to drive as much as possible to get extra tax free money. This is freaking great for our environment...
This is designed so that it's best to either be super rich (being able to circumvent the taxes in multiple ways), or be in the "higher low class" with low enough income so that the progression doesn't feel yet, then live wisely with what you have. Middle class easily pays 50-60% taxes (and they often feel they need to have high-class symbols they can't afford, typically bought with loans), and the absolutely lowest class tends to drop out through the gaping holes in the overly-complex social security system, whose primary purpose is to give "social security" to the social security workers themselves by having as many different parallel systems as possible, and a lot of paperwork. Here, it's rare not to receive any kind of monetary social benefit directly or indirectly, usually meaninglessly small for the big picture, but it keeps the bureaus running.
What it's worth, it's inevitable that living in a largish city with big premises is going to be expensive, but I guess this isn't news to anyone. While most seem to be suggesting downsizing the space requirements, my suggestion wouldn't necessarily be downsizing, but instead, maybe compromising with the location. Yeah, not that much café culture on countryside, but living peacefully closer to the nature may work as well. For me, my heart is in the forest, in serenity. (Which is one of the reasons I like being where I am, even though I loathe "the system".)
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This is designed so that it's best to either be super rich (being able to circumvent the taxes in multiple ways), or be in the "higher low class" with low enough income so that the progression doesn't feel yet
Absolutely, same as in France. I guess those countries that have (or at least pretend to have) heavy social programs actually tend to favor the super-rich. Something to think about.
Additionally, taxing productive work too much is counter-productive IMO and as you said, tends to be an incentive for tricking the system when you can. Not morally sane IMO.
What it's worth, it's inevitable that living in a largish city with big premises is going to be expensive, but I guess this isn't news to anyone. While most seem to be suggesting downsizing the space requirements, my suggestion wouldn't necessarily be downsizing, but instead, maybe compromising with the location
Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
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Absolutely, same as in France. I guess those countries that have (or at least pretend to have) heavy social programs actually tend to favor the super-rich. Something to think about.
Additionally, taxing productive work too much is counter-productive IMO and as you said, tends to be an incentive for tricking the system when you can. Not morally sane IMO.
Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
Even if your job doesn't tie you to a specific location, jobs tend to be clustered around city areas and also higher paying in those places. Only if your job is fully independent of the location it really pays.
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Two words: Services Liberalization (http://www.thefutureworldofwork.org/media/35389/tisa-foul-play-uni-global-union-web-spreads.pdf).
Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
Even if your job doesn't tie you to a specific location, jobs tend to be clustered around city areas and also higher paying in those places. Only if your job is fully independent of the location it really pays.
Enjoy your life while you can! Just don't make any binding financial commitments based on things remaining as they are. Churners - like Fran's new LL, are likely to over-leverage themselves and find themselves in debt to the Mob. Except this time the Mob will be overseas investors who have no mercy. The sharks are circling.
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They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
What % of the fee actually goes to the creators? What about creators who do not have it set up to accept payments? I don't think the ad free part is worth much when there are many free adblockers for that, but the premium content might be worth it. (What is "premium" content anyways? Movies?)
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What % of the fee actually goes to the creators?
Complex algorithm. Depends on how long they watch, and how many others to watch. It gets auto-magically divvied up
What about creators who do not have it set up to accept payments?
Anyone who has a monetisation enabled gets Premium income as well if a premium user watches their video.
I don't think the ad free part is worth much when there are many free adblockers for that, but the premium content might be worth it. (What is "premium" content anyways? Movies?)
Movies and shows like Kobra Kai (worth it just for that!)
I think I can make content Premium users only, but haven't looked into that.
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I'd be quite reluctant to pay for a service that "promises" to pay the creators without proof of how much actually goes to them. It could be something like 10% or less in which case it would be even more of a scam than record company deals. In contrast, Patreon boasts that 90% goes to the creator and some cryptocurrencies (not Bitcoin except for large transactions or special cases) do even more than that.
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She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!
https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/ (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/)
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Is she able to accept Paypal or Bitcoin?
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She has already exceeded her 10k goal in 13 hours.
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She has already exceeded her 10k goal in 13 hours.
Which is roughly 5% of the time that EEVBlog forum wrung hands and tossed opinions about it... ;)
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And now over $20K in just 2 days! :)
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She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!
https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/ (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/)
:-+
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Thats great. I hope she can get enough to find a good new space with room for her equipment.
Philly, with its gentrification, is still nowhere near as bad as SF or NYC!
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I'm still creaming at the screen to let us help crowd source a place!
99% of the recommendations might be not suitable, but all it takes is that one gem of a place to make it all worthwile.
Finding a new place to uproot your life too must be very difficult, it's not like she it just moving a lab, it's her home as well.
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In two days Fran has raised over $21 thousand of her $10 thousand goal on Gofundme.
In an update video she said her landlord is helping to pay for moving, and the donation $$$ will go for a down payment on rent-to-buy in her new place.
Ref: https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home)
https://youtu.be/RDO-lZfi_UE (https://youtu.be/RDO-lZfi_UE)
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I'm still creaming at the screen
Too much detail Dave, we already know you have a thing for the vintage test equipment, even if it is in the background!!
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Thats great but - Fran if you read this, please try to raise more money. $20k may seem like a lot but - trust me, it isn't in any urban context. You should try to have this next move be a permanent one, i.e. try to buy a place to work and live if possible. Otherwise its not at all unlikely you'll find yourself in the same position again and all this is going to get old fast.
Some urban areas change so quickly you go away for a few years and when you come back you almost don't recognize it. The funky livable areas become popular and trendy and thats what kills them. All that oppressive trendy-ness makes it too popular which ruins everything, and of course its soon too expensive for the people who made it happen in the first place and they flee.
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In her latest update video, Fran reveals that she doesn't qualify for a mortgage for the very reasons @cdev reviewed. She (and millions of people) are condemned to be life-long renters because of their economic status. :(
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I had edited my post so let me recap them.. landlords 1.) want prospective renters to have perfect credit, as in have established credit, not just (like me) credit averse people who won't/ never buy things on credit. Many current city dwellers lack the credit history of suburbanites with their car and home loans, so right there they are at a huge disadvantage.
2.) Income - So they want people be not just employed and have an income, they want to see you employed with some well established firm and making at least 3 times the monthly rent, or have collateral that can be put up as security or
3) a co-signer, (who is often some rich young person's parents who assume the risk)
Also I had been told that now many people are broadly hinted that substantial bribes to the real estate agent will get them first crack at apartments that five or ten people with perfect credit and checkbooks at the ready all want.
All this works against most of us.
When I lived in San Francisco some people did a study and they concluded that something like 95% of the residents of San Francisco at that time could not afford to re-rent in the city if they lost their apartments and had to find another. (They also found that many older people who lost their rented homes ended up on the streets and soon 'were lost to follow up' as doctors writing medical papers put it. Vanished, in many cases died or were forced to move to places unknown. No forwarding address.. stuff put out on the sidewalk.)
I don't know how many of you live in the Bay Area but if you do and ride Cal Train you will notice that all along the railroad right of way there are countless homeless people living in corners and under highway overpasses, any place that affords even the slightest amount of shelter. Many, perhaps most of those people used to have normal lives. But something happened, somebody decided to buy and flip their building, is a common story, and poof.
That could be any of us.
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You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.
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Back in the pre-gentrification San Francisco, there was a fair amount of very inexpensive housing that people were living in very creatively.
Housing is crucial to having a creative community.
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I've never been to Philly and don't know it, but a quick search for >2000sqft places for rent under $1k/month found 84 places.
Are these dodgy areas?
(https://i.imgur.com/Ywsn95q.jpg)
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To put that into perspective, the current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
I can't reconcile your numbers... We have 3750 square feet in Theale near Reading. This is a < 10 year old office/warehouse on a high-tech business park in a fully landscaped location with gigabit internet etc.
Your £70/sqft/annum figure is almost an order of magnitude higher than we're paying!
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If somebody is willing to live in an area thats not so trendy, deals are still out there.
What some of us are dealing with is the situation you can see laid out on sites like worstroom.com - the situation for residential spaces in places like SF, NYC and maybe a few others, where costs are sky high. (and I use that term "residential" in a bit of an inappropriate way, as you will see if you look at it.)
Whats best is if you can live close enough to the city (whichever one it is) to get there by reliable, fast, public transportation in a short enough time to work there, without having to pay that much.
Thats getting harder and harder to find but its still out there. Many areas also have large industrial buildings that are not getting used to their full potential.
NJ might be more expensive than Philly, but then again it might not be. The downside is, apart from the downtown areas of the older communities its not that walkable really. People do their shopping in malls.
I wonder if there are spaces in the "Oranges"? Thats the former home of Thomas Edison's laboratory which is now a national monument. They seem to be very welcoming of innovative educational businesses.
Don't know about vacancies or cost. It might well be higher than Philly's environs. Or maybe not. I don't know.
Bloomfield, right next door to Montclair, has a walk in electronics parts counter, NTE electronics, (website https://www.nteinc.com (https://www.nteinc.com) ) that handles all the major lines.
Really convenient for a small manufacturer to have that nearby.
Although many NJ areas are 'walkable' to a point, some areas more than others, realistically, unless she really planned things out, she would need to have a car to get around, especially when it comes to shopping for groceries, etc.
Any car that passed the quite thorough inspections. Meaning one with low emissions, etc. Any car manufactured in the last 15-20 years or so would likely pass. A tiny car - ideally a hatch-back, would be fine.
One big plus is, its not that trendy, compared to NYC, SF, etc. Not by a long shot. But its still pricey compared to many other areas. So, hard to say whether it would be a good choice.
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She would need to have a car. Any car that passed the quite thorough inspections. Meaning one with low emissions, etc. Any car manufactured in the last 15-20 years or so would likely pass. A tiny car would be fine.
She owns a motorcycle and renting a truck would be the way to go for the move.
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She would need to have a car. Any car that passed the quite thorough inspections. Meaning one with low emissions, etc. Any car manufactured in the last 15-20 years or so would likely pass. A tiny car would be fine.
She owns a motorcycle and renting a truck would be the way to go for the move.
U-Haul works out well. Thats definitely a good way to move. I don't trust other people to handle my electronic items. Many of them could be damaged by improper handling. There are also firms that will let you rent a metal box, a small storage container, which they pick up and drop off, which you put your own lock on. That works out really well too.
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You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.
countries with an extensive social safety net still have homeless people, usually a result of a mix of mental issues and substance abuse
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Commuting to NYC would also be possible for me, although a lot more expensive than when I was a kid and I could get into the city for $0.95 ($0.60 for bus and another $0.35 for PATH train) And there is much more traffic now too. Its congested and people go nuts on the bus when its stuck in a traffic jam and they need to get to some meeting.
Also, if you commute, the fares add up quite a bit and come out of your pretax income.
Commuting costs coming out of pre-tax income is a good thing, right?
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The thing is, just outside the city limits of Philadelphia would save a ton in taxes - they city is higher than the surrounding areas plus they have an additional sales tax above the state one, AND heaven help you if you are stuck within the city and like to have an occasional soda or other sweet drink, as there is a special extra tax on those things. Property is many of those just outside the city places would likely be less expensive as well.
But I get it, some people are just city people. I know at least two other people who live well within the city of Philadelphia. They moan and complain about things all the time, but if you suggest there are other alternatives they immediately get defensive and complain that it's so much easier for them to get to things without a car (yet they pay a fortune to keep a car parked in the city so they can go to other places on occasion - go figure. Where I live, no, I can't walk ot the mall (easily) or many of the restaurants around me, but those things also aren;t far. The traffic is not like driving in the city - it takes me 5 minutes to drive from my house to my office. Were I younger and in better shape, I could possibly bike it in nice weather, but I do live at the top of a fairly steep hill. Getting To work would be a breeze, it's getting home that would be less fun. I did live in Philly at one point, just started my first job out of college, and I was by myself, so a small place was affordable. Still had to drive to work, but I did have several close things I could walk to, which was nice. Thing is, when I later switched jobs and move outside of the city, the same rent money got me a larger 2 bedroom place that was as nice as the place I had in the city. It's all tradeoffs - for me I'd rather live where I have space (I have a decent size yard) rather than pay extra to live inside city limits, yet I am not in such a fancy area that housing costs are unaffordable - my house was relatively inexpensive compared to some places around me, but the neighborhood is good and fairly quiet.
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You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.
countries with an extensive social safety net still have homeless people, usually a result of a mix of mental issues and substance abuse
Yea
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A big problem everywhere is churning and churners. Insiders who radiate a particularly disturbing kind of aggressive entitlement. Their attitude is "all these other people have gotten rich off of X" "I have a right to do it too". Except X is some activity that ruins peoples lives and THEY have no escape from it. The limits that used to exist in the past have been quietly removed and now normal people are fair game for what amounts to a global shakedown.
That is likely to create a huge amount of homeless people in the US, people who did nothing wrong, who just had the misfortune to be alive now and in the way of greedy peoples profit-churning activities. And the totally infuriating thing is, vast legions of these cult-like people don't listen to any kind of logic, and nomatter where in the world they are from, if you discuss them with them for awhile, the truth comes out, they consider these kinds of nasty things to be their entitlement. If you play along with them, the truth comes out.
Its a predator-prey relationship.
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Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Lots of homeless people now have jobs. Somehow they manage this. Probably by staying with friends in a serial fashion or living in their cars.
Many jobs don't pay enough to keep a roof over ones head in the US. Add the coming changes which are being driven by new AI technologies and energy price increases due to export, and the large scale elimination of safety nets, using 'trade barrier' as an excuse, and the planned large scale outsourcing of many jobs using the Internet, and we have a recipe for a major, unprecedented disaster in the coming years.
You don't have to be in the bay area to see homeless people. Almost anywhere in california is like that right now.
countries with an extensive social safety net still have homeless people, usually a result of a mix of mental issues and substance abuse
Yea
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Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
If you are putting Mexico in the "developed world" bucket, there are much worse places than US to be poor.
Quite frequently, disputes between drug cartels become quite violent in the slums of the main cities in Brasil. This one was a big one about a year ago:
https://youtu.be/uFZF3f8RtPY?t=20
(there are some fireworks mixed with guns, but a certain point you can hear what it looks like a .50 cal)
That is another in an area known as Gaza Strip in Rio:
https://youtu.be/7Ls36bf5uyM?t=1
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Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world". Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US. If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice.
If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day? Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written. Are they all fools?
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The thing is, just outside the city limits of Philadelphia would save a ton in taxes - they city is higher than the surrounding areas plus they have an additional sales tax above the state one, AND heaven help you if you are stuck within the city and like to have an occasional soda or other sweet drink, as there is a special extra tax on those things. Property is many of those just outside the city places would likely be less expensive as well.
But I get it, some people are just city people. I know at least two other people who live well within the city of Philadelphia. They moan and complain about things all the time, but if you suggest there are other alternatives they immediately get defensive and complain that it's so much easier for them to get to things without a car (yet they pay a fortune to keep a car parked in the city so they can go to other places on occasion - go figure. Where I live, no, I can't walk ot the mall (easily) or many of the restaurants around me, but those things also aren;t far. The traffic is not like driving in the city - it takes me 5 minutes to drive from my house to my office. Were I younger and in better shape, I could possibly bike it in nice weather, but I do live at the top of a fairly steep hill. Getting To work would be a breeze, it's getting home that would be less fun. I did live in Philly at one point, just started my first job out of college, and I was by myself, so a small place was affordable. Still had to drive to work, but I did have several close things I could walk to, which was nice. Thing is, when I later switched jobs and move outside of the city, the same rent money got me a larger 2 bedroom place that was as nice as the place I had in the city. It's all tradeoffs - for me I'd rather live where I have space (I have a decent size yard) rather than pay extra to live inside city limits, yet I am not in such a fancy area that housing costs are unaffordable - my house was relatively inexpensive compared to some places around me, but the neighborhood is good and fairly quiet.
I am with you on this. When I lived in S Florida, I rented a 1 bedroom apartment in a so-so neighborhood that Mrs GreyWoolfe laughingly called the room under the stairs, 550 sq ft, for $600 a month. When I bought the house we have now in Central Florida is a small city of about 20K people, we have 3 X the size, 3 X the bedrooms for less than twice what I paid to rent. Granted, the only thing we can walk to is the small convenience store outside the subdivision that is about a half mile away but everything we need is a short drive. On top of that, I am a remote FSE working from home and Mrs GreyWoolfe works less than 3 miles from home.
If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day? Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written. Are they all fools?
No, they are the smart ones. We the people are the fools that keep electing government officials that encourage this to happen so they get extra, often illegal votes so they can stay in power.
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Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world". Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US. If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice.
I think you’ve got it all wrong. You do realize that a HUGE percentage of drug (and alcohol!) addiction is self-medication for otherwise untreated mental health problems? Nobody wants to become a heroin addict. It starts as an escape from some situation that feels even worse.
As the Vietnam war was wrapping up, there was a huge worry back home that returning GIs were going to become a huge wave of heroin addicts, because heroin use in the Vietnam war theater was rampant. But what actually happened was that very few veterans remained heroin users. As it turns out, the heroin use was popular over there because it was a way to cope with the horrors around them. Once removed from that situation, nearly all of them simply stopped using it.
Similar experiments performed more recently on rats show that they behave the exact same way: if their living situation is awful (i.e. a small cage with nothing to do), the rats will choose to use drugs, often choosing it in lieu of food. Take the same rats and put them into a “rat paradise” and they stop using the drugs, even if they remain available.
So, if you were homeless, do you think that’d be happy? Or do you think you’d feel desperate? Do you think you might want a little mental escape from that? (And before you compare developing nations, consider that relative wealth does make a difference mentally. Being destitute in a fundamentally rich country is a very different individual experience than it is in a country where almost everyone else is destitute, too!)
Yes, some people become homeless because of drug addiction (this is almost always due to unresolved mental health issues or traumas). But many become addicts because of homelessness and destitution!
So, maybe consider having a bit more sympathy for our homeless and those with substance abuse problems. Their story isn’t as simple as you think it is.
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No, they are the smart ones. We the people are the fools that keep electing government officials that encourage this to happen so they get extra, often illegal votes so they can stay in power.
Yeah, all those illegal votes that have proven to be pure fantasy invented by one party to create FUD. :rant:
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Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world". Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US. If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice.
If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day? Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written. Are they all fools?
I think you need to add some gradients here. I'd guess that a lot of the homeless people became homeless due to an inability to work and no social security or family to fall back on. The rest of the misery probably followed later.
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I think you need to add some gradients here. I'd guess that a lot of the homeless people became homeless due to an inability to work and no social security or family to fall back on. The rest of the misery probably followed later.
Absolutely. Most Americans are less than one paycheck away from being broke. 40% of Americans cannot afford an unexpected $400 expense! (https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/27/could-you-come-up-with-400-41-of-americans-cant.aspx)
And with American austerity-based safety nets in a political climate that assumes poverty to be a personal moral failing, meaningful safety nets do not exist.
Depending on who you believe and how it’s counted, 4% (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/) to 62% (https://www.thebalance.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729) of personal bankruptcies in USA are due to illness/disease (medical bills, loss of income, etc.). IMHO, it’s scandalous that even one person should go bankrupt due to illness or disease. Never mind hundreds of thousands per year. Not in a country that, as a whole (per-capita), is as wealthy as USA.
So one unexpected $500 medical bill, and almost half of Americans are at financial risk.
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I think you need to add some gradients here. I'd guess that a lot of the homeless people became homeless due to an inability to work and no social security or family to fall back on. The rest of the misery probably followed later.
Absolutely. Most Americans are less than one paycheck away from being broke. 40% of Americans cannot afford an unexpected $400 expense! (https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/27/could-you-come-up-with-400-41-of-americans-cant.aspx)
And with American austerity-based safety nets in a political climate that assumes poverty to be a personal moral failing, meaningful safety nets do not exist.
Depending on who you believe and how it’s counted, 4% (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/) to 62% (https://www.thebalance.com/medical-bankruptcy-statistics-4154729) of personal bankruptcies in USA are due to illness/disease (medical bills, loss of income, etc.). IMHO, it’s scandalous that even one person should go bankrupt due to illness or disease. Never mind hundreds of thousands per year. Not in a country that, as a whole (per-capita), is as wealthy as USA.
So one unexpected $500 medical bill, and almost half of Americans are at financial risk.
Now how many of those people have new phones and cars? Health insurance with high premiums and deductibles? There are other things you can't measure reliably too, steps taken to improve the situation, earnest efforts to keep some money around. Actual skills vs what is required near them. There is never a single reason which is why the individuals are generally considered to be at fault. I read an article today on cnn where Seattle raised the min wage to 15 but people actually only make 1-2% more due to cut hours. This is in a busy urban area. Nothing said about cost of living changes though.
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Simple: US wages are too low relative to cost of living. Nobody wants a high-deductible insurance policy. Phones are a necessity, as are reliable cars in nearly the entire country. You cannot set aside money you don’t have.
But go ahead, try and argue the poverty-as-a-moral-failing angle...
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P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.
(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)
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P.P.S. Funny that you mention Seattle, since I just saw another article saying that the situation in Seattle is actually looking much better now than initially thought. https://apple.news/Ao8FDA_OmR7qNSQEJ-8rlvA
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P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.
(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)
Actually I used to be poor. We had stores where things were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the normal chain stores. They had limited selection but everything you'd need. Bread, eggs, milk, cheese, canned goods, fresh fruit and vegetables, cream, some other "luxury" food stuffs but mostly essentials. As for Seattle the article is likely based on the same research which I haven't read so I'm not going to try to say much more than what I read. actually it looks like mostly the same article but on cnn business rather than just cnn.
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It depends a lot on where you are. Some places have cheap stores like that. Many poor urban neighborhoods do not, leaving people reliant on expensive corner stores.
Here’s a pertinent recent event from my adopted hometown, Baltimore: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore)
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Please don't get me wrong. This is my home and even with its problems I love it. I wouldn't complain if I didn't think there was hope. Its just that well organized, quite evil and cynical people are literally trying to steal all we hold dear and our futures. In ways that none of us would agree with. And they are also doing their best to divide us. Using contrived 'wedge issues' that divert attention and prevent discussion of the real problems.
No, I won't blame the victims. The people in places like LA's huge "Skid Row" area are just as often as not people who had some major misfortune happen to them and it just ruined their lives. The health care situation in the US in particular is absolutely criminal. And the situation, artificially prolonged by means of FTAs and endless negotiations over them, has kept our problems from ever getting solved. Even as huge numbers of Americans have died unnecessarily. This is clear as the nose on your face when you dig into the finer points of the connections between the General Agreement on Trade in Services and health insurance and other health care related issues. Healthcare/+ insurance/ + patients + medical staffing have become pawns - or maybe poker chips in a cynical international game.
If this became more widely known the media would be forced to cover it.
Few if any countries in the world have the homeless problems the US has.
The US is the worst country in the developed world by far to be poor in, with the possible exception of Mexico.
Dunno how much traveling you have done around the planet, especially the "3rd world"?
Non-working transients with drug (including alcohol) addictions to support have it infinitely better in the US than hard-working, honest, sincere clean-living people in most of the "3rd world". Visiting many parts of Africa, Asia, and Oceania lowered my sympathy for many of the homeless in the US. If they want to stay high on mind-altering substances all day, that is their choice.
If the US is all as bad as @cdev and others paint it, why thousands of people try to break in every day? Including a well-publicized army of >10K people working their way up from Central America as this is written. Are they all fools?
Why do we try to overthrow governments in other countries that attempt to better the conditions for their people, including Honduras, quite recently. Why?
BTW, those people from Honduras would be welcomed with open arms if they coughed up around $500,000 USD per person as an 'investment' in a condo. A representative of the very well connected K****** family was recently reported to be giving seminars in China on how to do exactly that. WTF?
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It depends a lot on where you are. Some places have cheap stores like that. Many poor urban neighborhoods do not, leaving people reliant on expensive corner stores.
Here’s a pertinent recent event from my adopted hometown, Baltimore: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore)
Yea, I was in kansas. There are some places where it's not great to be broke and poor but at some point you should consider moving then. It's what I did. Multiple times actually. If you don't give up you can improve your situation. If you do give up or wait for someone else to change things for you though you probably have a low chance of improving things. This isn't for people with legitimate disabilities but I'm fairly certain that's not the majority of poor people in america.
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I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
many (poor people who should be risk-averse) who are barely surviving buy expensive HDHPs (which were designed for rich, healthy people only) (because otherwise the insurance costs more than they make in wages) and find that they are designed to strip them the poor of their coverage immediately when they get a serious illness (thats what the health insurance companies are experts at) So they pay faithfully for years until they get some diagnosis and then zap, the bills just push them out. Thats the way they are designed, their intent.
I do support a higher minimum wage because otherwise, peoples time gets all used up and they don't make any money. If they make a wage thats more substantial, sure, they don't have to work as many hours to make the same amount. Then its possible that they might be able to do something in that other time to get out of the rut, learn some new skill or get a better paying job.
Also, keep in mind that because of how austerity and also trade deals work, that minimum wage may become a great many peoples wage at some point. Including many engineers. (although getting their employers to actually pay it may be impossible as the wages might be paid overseas into overseas workers accounts, as was the case with the proposed $6.47/hr wage for the Malaysian engineer in the "Matter of i-corp" case.)
Here is the problem, young people's from around the world's parents now seem to be on the verge of paying so they can work. Sort of like internships in other fields, desperate people will have to work for almost nothing (well, actually, its possible US minimum wage, or maybe not, as it will be very hard to enforce in practice, because the money stays outside the country, and its disputed whether we even have the right to tell foreign staffing firms what to pay their workforce, who are likely talented young people just like our own. Desperate for some work experience. They are kept in a state of disempowerment - working for very little - for as much as several years - or maybe forever if the situation keeps getting worse. And it may, thanks to the technology we're creating.
... Paying for the experience.
The horrid experience..
The point I am getting at is that technology is changing the world in entirely new ways and we have to be aware that there are important debates we need to be having which are being suppressed.
This is being done to against all odds, (one would think that democracy would be seen as our way out, the democracy we have not had in a long time) But instead we're being so deluged with noise to put us and keep us in an ever deeper rut. Common sense is all we need, that and truth. We are all in this together.
Now how many of those people have new phones and cars? Health insurance with high premiums and deductibles? There are other things you can't measure reliably too, steps taken to improve the situation, earnest efforts to keep some money around. Actual skills vs what is required near them. There is never a single reason which is why the individuals are generally considered to be at fault. I read an article today on cnn where Seattle raised the min wage to 15 but people actually only make 1-2% more due to cut hours. This is in a busy urban area. Nothing said about cost of living changes though.
Cost of living is not considered in setting wages under neoliberal ideology, its all based on the market, and supply and demand. Thats what we're headed for. So any explosion in labor saving technology (basically AI is functionally identical to workers who will work for almost nothing, just electrons) may be accompanied by huge falls in wages. This could happen even without the outsourcing and offshoring they will claim they "need" to do to 'restore profitability'. See where our greed takes us, if we tune out and fail to see how democracy is in danger globally in a way that hurts everybody?
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I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.
Then there are the most visible poor, the homeless population. Of the ones you see, a large majority are suffering from mental illness and/or drug addiction. I see them every day walking between my bus stop and office.
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Actually I used to be poor. We had stores where things were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the normal chain stores. They had limited selection but everything you'd need. Bread, eggs, milk, cheese, canned goods, fresh fruit and vegetables, cream, some other "luxury" food stuffs but mostly essentials. As for Seattle the article is likely based on the same research which I haven't read so I'm not going to try to say much more than what I read. actually it looks like mostly the same article but on cnn business rather than just cnn.
There's a place like that down in Shelton, I often stop there when I'm in the area. They have all kinds of stuff that is past the "best by" date, damaged packages, discontinued, etc. I shop there not because I'm poor but because I'm cheap and I don't care if the box of cake mix is squished or a bottle of BBQ sauce is a little past the best by date. They also have produce for typically less than half the price of a regular grocery store, I sometimes buy several pounds of apples for dehydrating. You can't tell they're less than perfect once they've been dried.
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It depends a lot on where you are. Some places have cheap stores like that. Many poor urban neighborhoods do not, leaving people reliant on expensive corner stores.
Here’s a pertinent recent event from my adopted hometown, Baltimore: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore (https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/27/597304848/salvation-army-opens-first-grocery-store-ever-in-baltimore)
Yea, I was in kansas. There are some places where it's not great to be broke and poor but at some point you should consider moving then. It's what I did. Multiple times actually. If you don't give up you can improve your situation. If you do give up or wait for someone else to change things for you though you probably have a low chance of improving things. This isn't for people with legitimate disabilities but I'm fairly certain that's not the majority of poor people in america.
(I lived in Kansas from age 3-5! :P)
The problem is that many of America’s poor simply don’t even have the means to move. :( It’s another of those things that perpetuates poverty. (A slightly related issue is the one of transportation to work. I read recently that good public transit is one of the reasons why socioeconomic mobility is now better in Europe than in USA: A person can take a job that’s farther away, but pays much better, even if they don’t have a car to commute with. This is a HUGE problem in USA, where poverty causes people to be unable to have reliable transportation, without which they can’t get or keep a better job. American public transit is largely so bad as to be irrelevant.)
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I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Those people aren't poor, they are just poor at money management.
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I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Those people aren't poor, they are just poor at money management.
If you have a total net worth below $0 (or hell, below $2K), you're poor in my book. If we use that definition, I see a lot of poor people with new phones, new cars, drinking $5 cups of hot water poured over beans, and regularly eating meals prepared for them.
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I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Those people aren't poor, they are just poor at money management.
If you have a total net worth below $0 (or hell, below $2K), you're poor in my book. If we use that definition, I see a lot of poor people with new phones, new cars, drinking $5 cups of hot water poured over beans, and regularly eating meals prepared for them.
:palm:
Those people aren't poor if they have a $1000 iPhone, a fancy car, and are eating smashed avo toast (aussies will know what I mean) and three cafe coffees every day. They are simply crap with management of their money and spend beyond their means.
Poor is having no money to begin with, not having money and blowing it all on lifestyle choices so you end up being forever in debt.
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Those people aren't poor if they have a $1000 iPhone
You are talking two orders of magnitude more money to buy a house. The problem is that houses, like designer clothes, fetch silly prices. They aren't even worth what you have to pay for them.
As for drugs being self-medication for mental health problems, that might be right on the nail where teenagers and school is concerned. A major overhaul of that institution is needed.
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At my local chain drugstore they sell prepay smartphones which look just like top of the line cellphone brands.
Price, around $30. They look expensive but aren't.
Also, some cities have programs to give poor people prepay phones with a small number of calls, basically so they can be notified of appointments they need to keep. (also they can probably be tracked via GPS)
The cell phones are basic Android based cell phones.
As far as new cars, that is - just wrong.
Maintaining any car successfully (and keeping it out of the impound garage in any city) requires resources that poor people rarely if ever have.
Just simply renting a garage or parking space in many urban areas costs substantial sums of money.
(Insurance does too!)
Parking a car on a street and moving it when that is needed, requires knowledge of when streets are going to be cleaned and a daily attention to detail, as well as having immediate access to funds to bail a car out if its towed, that is guaranteed to trip up those who don't have a stable life situation.
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I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.
It's very easy to demonise people for living beyond their means, but you don't know their financial situation.
In the UK, the average salary is £27,000, but the average house is over £250,000, so only high earners or lucky well-paid professional couples can buy them. Even a basic two-bedroom flat in the SE of England, where many well paying jobs are located, will cost your north of £200k.
The only option you have if you ever want to escape the cycle of renting is to mortgage a house for 90% of its value (and finding £30,000 to put down, once agents fees and moving costs are accounted for) and hope that house prices don't crash because if they do, you will be trapped in negative equity for the next twenty years, unable to move out of the house you now despise.
So we've built a society that essentially continues propping up house prices and rents to support those who own, because we're so afraid of the damage this could cause, but this is just at the expense of everyone else who don't own homes. This problem is unsolvable without upsetting a substantial portion of the population, namely the ones who tend to vote (older generations, baby boomers typically.)
When you see people with the latest iPhone or drinking coffee from Starbucks, perhaps that's their escape from their financial destitution. At the end of the day, I really doubt £40 a month makes much difference when your paycheque is ~20% more than your rent every month. They are never going to be able to afford to buy a home. And a brand new car - who knows how they're paying for that? But you can finance cars for under £100 per month in the UK, that can be less than an unexpected mechanical bill on a used car. What if you don't have the £5k to buy a decent used car up front, anyway? You end up trapped in a loop on credit after credit.
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P.S. Look into how expensive it is to be poor. Everything you use costs you more than if you have money. From grocery stores in poor neighborhoods charging more (often a lot more), to not having the cash up-front to buy things in bulk (never mind afford a Costco membership), to how you pay more for insurance, etc.
(And “poor” is relative: many Americans work 2–3 jobs just to stay afloat, never mind have the time or money to pay for school, or childcare to make the time, etc. There’s no way to save in those situations.)
And sickness (not even cancer) for a month or less can and have made some go into personal bankrutt!
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It's very easy to demonise people for living beyond their means, but you don't know their financial situation.
In the UK, the average salary is £27,000, but the average house is over £250,000, so only high earners or lucky well-paid professional couples can buy them. Even a basic two-bedroom flat in the SE of England, where many well paying jobs are located, will cost your north of £200k.
in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to chance
The only option you have if you ever want to escape the cycle of renting is to mortgage a house for 90% of its value (and finding £30,000 to put down, once agents fees and moving costs are accounted for) and hope that house prices don't crash because if they do, you will be trapped in negative equity for the next twenty years, unable to move out of the house you now despise.
has there ever been a time where it took more than max 10 years to break even?
So we've built a society that essentially continues propping up house prices and rents to support those who own, because we're so afraid of the damage this could cause, but this is just at the expense of everyone else who don't own homes. This problem is unsolvable without upsetting a substantial portion of the population, namely the ones who tend to vote (older generations, baby boomers typically.)
how would you change that houses are worth what people willing to pay for them, mandate a maximum price? here there are certain type of houses that have a fixed price, when that is much less than the free market value it usually means bags of cash change hands to
be the "lucky" buyer
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She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!
https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/ (https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/)
Just checked the page but no Paypal button??
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in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change
Technology changes things rapidly.
Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?
Then lots of housing may become available in the areas where jobs are lost, all around the world, because people who have loans may be unable to meet payments.
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in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change
Technology changes things rapidly.
Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?
That ain't gonna happen.
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jose_Duarte/publication/227229384/figure/fig1/AS:316765855862797@1452534273235/Worker-feeding-machine-Still-from-Charlie-Chaplins-Modern-Times-s-1936_W840.jpg)
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in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to change
Technology changes things rapidly.
Suppose AI explodes in the next decade, making it possible to do most jobs without workers or even computer programmers?
Then lots of housing may become available in the areas where jobs are lost, all around the world, because people who have loans may be unable to meet payments.
yes, so where there are no well paid jobs housing will be cheap
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Parking a car on a street and moving it when that is needed, requires knowledge of when streets are going to be cleaned and a daily attention to detail, as well as having immediate access to funds to bail a car out if its towed, that is guaranteed to trip up those who don't have a stable life situation.
People survive for a long time without any of that preparation.
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If someone is drinking coffee at Starbucks and have the latest iPhone to escape their financial situation, they're doing it wrong. That is irrational behavior, behavior which I was able to easily avoid so I know it's not that hard. When someone is living sensibly and still struggling then I'll be far more sympathetic.
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Latest update.
She can get into a nice space, but they want 1 years rent up front, $30k or so, which seems crazy.
I wonder if she can separate working and living spaces. i.e. get a small apartment to live in and rent a commercial lab space somewhere?
Does Philly have commercial business parks like we do here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI)
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Just had a quick look at commercial realestate in Philly, and I can't seem to find prices on anything, is this normal?
https://www2.colliers.com/en/Properties/#sort=date%20descending&f:propertytype=[Office,Industrial]&f:_91F90D81-D1CE-4EF8-AC35-41F58B651EE8=[2000..5000]&f:lat=[39.11795702025965..40.17534721445156]&f:long=[-78.61342166379006..-71.62886355832131]&location=Philadelphia%2C%20PA%2C%20USA&offeringtype=For%20Lease
https://www2.colliers.com/en/properties/class-a-office-building/USA-1020-laurel-oak-road-voorhees-nj/USA1023571
Here we have lease prices on almost all listings and consolidated websites were all the different agents list their properties on one website.
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Probably not right inside the city like we do in suburbia. My memories of Philly the times I have been there is that its the classic East Coast city with a downtown of a mix of older, mostly red brick industrial spaces and some modern buildings, a fair amount of modern buildings but many of them are themselves aging, maybe dating back to the 70s and 80s. Philly also has lots of very old houses, some single family, others converted into flats. The last time I was there was around six years ago, and even though many many neighborhoods have seen a lot of restorative energy and fresh paint, and are kind of gentrified, it still has its share of run down housing thats not that far from abandonment. Some towns in the area (on the NJ side of the river) are realistically, close to being slums.
Riding through Philly on the train in the distant past (a really long time ago and memories are very hazy) not regularly, (because I lived in CA back then) what is called the Eastern corridor, I used to see a lot of English looking row housing, some of it nice, but most of it kind of run down. (Thinking about it though, I may be confusing Philly with Baltimore, thats quite possible, the Amtrak train goes through both areas)
Much of that is likely gone by now. Some parts of that area are also very upscale. NJ has a lot of industrial parks, one area that has a lot of electronics is the Princeton area which is not that far from Philly. But its expensive. Probably way too expensive for Fran.
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in an area with well paying job housing will be more expensive, that's never going to chance
Thing is - it's all over the country
Unless you live absolutely in the middle of nowhere, you're going to be paying at least £150,000 for a home. For instance I live in the NE of England, where the average salary is £23k and the house price average is still around £180k. That's still a ratio of >7:1 so most banks will not loan you the money to buy the house without a substantial downpayment...and good luck putting that downpayment down when you're paying £7-8k a year in rent alone.
how would you change that houses are worth what people willing to pay for them, mandate a maximum price? here there are certain type of houses that have a fixed price, when that is much less than the free market value it usually means bags of cash change hands to
be the "lucky" buyer
There's no free market with houses, we have a bunch of people who own land in vast swathes, who continue to sit on that land because it appreciates in value. Building houses would decrease the value of their land, so few homes get built.
The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes. Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created, which is not easy.
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The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes. Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created, which is not easy.
Building homes goes against the general idea of concentrating people in cities. So building home needs to be difficult and expensive. Here they made sure it wont be even a habitable home by forcing A energy rating on new private buildings from 2020. This will mean unreasonable amount of insulation materials and everything rotting forever with even slightest issue with vapor control membranes or violation of building procedures. They are experimenting with this in Scandinavia for some time in public building sector and these are notorious mold nests. Kindergartens, schools etc...
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The only way to fix the housing crisis in most of Europe, and it is already a crisis in the UK and not too far from being a crisis elsewhere, is to build more homes. Supply and demand will take care of prices there. The trouble really is then trying to solve the negative equity bubble that's just been created, which is not easy.
Building homes goes against the general idea of concentrating people in cities. So building home needs to be difficult and expensive. Here they made sure it wont be even a habitable home by forcing A energy rating on new private buildings from 2020. This will mean unreasonable amount of insulation materials and everything rotting forever with even slightest issue with vapor control membranes or violation of building procedures. They are experimenting with this in Scandinavia for some time in public building sector and these are notorious mold nests. Kindergartens, schools etc...
Some people don't want to live in cities. And raising children is awful in a flat. So we need more homes.
But anyway, we are still not even building enough flats, when a flat in the city centre of Leeds costs £300,000 for two bedrooms. Even outskirts, lower than £150,000 is rare.
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This (see link (http://members.iinet.net.au/~jenks/GATS_BC2001.html)) is relevant to the housing problem everywhere, just about, too. Worth reading, it explains a lot.
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The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
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The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
At least you have swaths of habitable land, and there is no need to literally blow a mountain up to construct infrastructure if people are to be spaced out. With that geography it is possible to space out the population if the government is willing to invest in the infrastructure.
Countries like China has swaths of inhospitable mountain ranges and deserts. Every inch of halfway habitable land is already densely populated yet we still have to put people into those hostile locations and have trouble lift them out of poverty. Here in China almost the entire southwestern quarter of the mainland of the country is covered in one of the largest mountain ranges and the highest plateau in the world - this mountain range starts not far west from Shenzhen really. And the northern half, with the exception of the strip next to ocean, is desert. A newly constructed highway, G7 Beijing-Urumqi Expressway running almost the entire length of northern China, has a few hundred-mile stretches crossing literally no man’s land, not even a gas station. just road.
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Well you Chinese have lots of sea-shore as well. Call Arcadis and have them convert sea (or lakes) into land. Problem solved.
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It seems that China might do well to buy some additional land in the northeast from Russia.
We should be less obsessed by growth and put more energy into improving the quality of life for people.
The root of the issue is that there are just far too many people who want to live in certain geographical areas. The US for example has vast swaths of sparsely populated land, but nobody wants to live in the middle of the country. Everyone flocks to coastal areas like Seattle where the population is becoming unbearable. Building more homes attracts more people like widening a road generates more traffic. It brings with it additional load on all the other infrastructure. Traffic gridlock downtown is a daily occurrence, even the buses get packed to standing room only. There is nowhere to build enough housing to meet the demand, people continue to flood in by the tens of thousands.
At least you have swaths of habitable land, and there is no need to literally blow a mountain up to construct infrastructure if people are to be spaced out. With that geography it is possible to space out the population if the government is willing to invest in the infrastructure.
Countries like China has swaths of inhospitable mountain ranges and deserts. Every inch of halfway habitable land is already densely populated yet we still have to put people into those hostile locations and have trouble lift them out of poverty. Here in China almost the entire southwestern quarter of the mainland of the country is covered in one of the largest mountain ranges and the highest plateau in the world - this mountain range starts not far west from Shenzhen really. And the northern half, with the exception of the strip next to ocean, is desert. A newly constructed highway, G7 Beijing-Urumqi Expressway running almost the entire length of northern China, has a few hundred-mile stretches crossing literally no man’s land, not even a gas station. just road.
I do think that the world generally including the US has lots more build-able and habitable land than many make out. One problem you pointed out, frankly, they aren't willing to invest in the infrastructure.
Imagine a landlord who is fixated on short term profit generation, and not investment for the long haul.
The very good thing is technology. Technology is the return on the investment by the entire human race in knowledge, an investment that now is paying back large dividends, gains which uniquely, could be shared without taking from people. Technology by itself is a radically win win thing, not a zero sum game.
We have to rise to the challenges it presents us and figure out what to do. Its the biggest challenge we've ever faced.
We could easily solve the housing problem by applying technology to the making of high quality homes. Houses can be manufactured and not be cheaply made. It would be smart to do that. But ... (see the link I posted earlier to the web site in Australia, the same applies to us)
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I have never in my entire life seen a poor person who had an expensive new phone. Nor an expensive new car.
I sure have, lots of them. That's not to say it's a leading cause of poverty or anything but I'm shocked you haven't known or even met at least a couple people who can barely pay the rent at the end of the month but always seem to have a top of the line smartphone and/or a nice ride.
Then there is a whole other group of people who would not normally be considered poor, they make a decent wage but if you look at their finances their house is mortgaged to the hilt and they are living far beyond their means and deep in debt.
Then there are the most visible poor, the homeless population. Of the ones you see, a large majority are suffering from mental illness and/or drug addiction. I see them every day walking between my bus stop and office.
Indeed. Just come here and I will take you into the city I live just outside of and show you the cars, which aren't fancy, but have sets of wheels and tires on them worth probably 10x what the car is, with a stereo system installed that is so loud you can hear them coming from blocks away. It's quite common around here. Enough so that there are plenty of places to take advantage of these people's poor money management and decision making skills - often the wheels and tires are RENTED - yes, you can RENT TO OWN wheels and tires for you car, so even if you don't have a couple thousand dollars for the bling bling rims, you don;t need to feel left out. The stereo and speakers are probably rented, too. Now, many are quick to condemn these companies for taking advantage, but they most definitely are not forcing anyone to pay their ridiculously high prices (after the terms are up, you do own whatever it is you are renting, however by that time you will have easily paid 2-3x or even more vs just buying the item. But then if you can't afford to just outright buy the item - but these aren't necessities, a better money manager would just save up and do without until they can buy the desired item, or really not buy it at all because you simply don't need it.). No one is standing outside these stores and tossing people inside and making them stay until they sign a rental agreement for some piece of electronic gear, or furniture, or whatever. These places exist because there ARE people who will pay their prices just to get things NOW. Who's fault is that really?
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If young people are denied opportunities for advancement in the system thats dominant, they will create alternative hierarchies "subcultures" they can rise in - its a primal need thats tied to reproduction.
Evolutionary biology explains a lot of things people do, in ways which might not be obvious at first but when you see it, it makes perfect sense.
OTOH, IF we were smarter, we would protect poor people from predatory lending instead of encouraging it.
Oh, and electronics of certain kinds is now cheap enough so that it at least, should not be that expensive.
Music is good for all of us. Basic furniture doesn't have to be that expensive either. Furniture can be nice without being expensive. There is no law that says we have to have a society that attempts to make people miserable unless they buy lots of stuff they can't afford. That attempts to measure people's intrinsic worth by how much they spend. But we do.
But, if people had a better support network and less stress they wouldn't need to buy useless stuff to feel happy. Actually, learning is a flow experience that competes positively with all the others well. It can help keep people sane in a world of problems.
Learning is fun. Everybody needs to have some fun from time to time. Fun doesn't necessarily cost money. Its good for people.
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Latest update.
She can get into a nice space, but they want 1 years rent up front, $30k or so, which seems crazy.
I wonder if she can separate working and living spaces. i.e. get a small apartment to live in and rent a commercial lab space somewhere?
Does Philly have commercial business parks like we do here?
youtube.com/watch?v=LAGe4G_HAvI
Gofundme is at 41k, so she has the money.
Some prices here: https://www.loopnet.com/pennsylvania/philadelphia-commercial-real-estate/ (https://www.loopnet.com/pennsylvania/philadelphia-commercial-real-estate/)
Anywhere from $6-25 /sf/yr. $30k for 4,000 sqft would be $7.50 which is reasonable I guess.
Rent for apartment would be another $700-1k per month.
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I just rented the new lab at $40k gross a year. It's certainly not cheap (well, actually it is kinda cheap for my business park), but I'm paying for the privilege of being close to home, i.e. basically no commute to work (2 minutes by car, 5 minutes by bike, 17min walk)
If would be a different story if I was single with no dependencies like Fran, there would be far more options to uproot where and how I live.
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For sure.
One thing that Fran hasn't said, but perhaps could be a factor in her reluctance to move out of her neighborhood in Philly, is her belonging to a minority group that is currently under active, rabid siege by the conservative right (all the way up to the White House, which has now erased all mention of that group from all federal websites). On the one hand, she's not going to want to move to a state where attempting to use the bathroom could get her beat up or arrested, and on the other hand, she probably has a substantial social/support network in Philly that she does not want to leave behind. (I know that as a gay man, there are many parts of the USA I would be hesitant to move to, and I understand the importance of having people like yourself around.)
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It's an interesting experience being a minority straight person/couple in a mostly gay neighborhood. The thing to take away is that its really safe for people of all kinds. Because gay people are attacked all the time, or at least were, in the past, many gay people carried/wore/wear whistles. If they were being attacked, they could blow a whistle and lots of people would be out on the streets to protect them, in seconds.
Plus its clean and well kept up. And stores, like food stores are open late. Its also child friendly, lots of gay couples are parents, they adopt. Culturally, its not that different than any other urban area with just these few exceptions.
The downside now is of course, then and especially now, the whole urban everything is insanely expensive, especially nicer neighborhoods.
While there, I also had trans neighbors. Once my trans neighbor and I had to fend off a crazy person who had come down our air shaft and gotten trapped in the small space outside our two apartments. They ended up climbing back up to the roof on the piping. (Our landlord in that building was not into repairing things like the front door's electric lock, so homeless people would get in, sometimes take drugs in the hallways, and sometimes we had to call the police to get them out of there.)
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It is fucking absurd to say that Fran is being chucked out because of trans when she is the final victim (and she is a victim as all the tenants have been)
Everyone is treated like shit here. :--
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I saw that last video and I found it disturbing that they regard Fran as someone who is not good or high class for not earn a stable income and they want rich people with steady incomes only to have the space equivalent to the lab and that money may run out next year and may end up homeless.
Most food citizens work part time and I'd imagine Fran lives to work all day and night as for living there.
I think of greedy Landlords as being blood sucking vampires who sink their fangs into their victims savings and income.
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I've been thinking about this a lot, and trying to search for places, and I ultimately think Fran needs to take a risk and move out of Philly.
Many of the Youtube comments have interesting points about being able to buy a place or at least put a put deposit on place in a smaller town.
I know in her position you have to pick your locations carefully, but surely that's not impossible. Maybe hop on the LGBT forums (I assume there are ones) and ask around for location recommendations.
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Thats not true. many landlords are not big property owners. Maybe they have a house and needed to rent it for some reason. A common situation is a job takes somebody somewhere else but they want to come back in the future. A bad tenant who damages the property or doesn't pay rent can be financially devastating to a small landlord. Its a complicated situation that broad generalizations don't do justice to.
I saw that last video and I found it disturbing that they regard Fran as someone who is not good or high class for not earn a stable income and they want rich people with steady incomes only to have the space equivalent to the lab and that money may run out next year and may end up homeless.
Most food citizens work part time and I'd imagine Fran lives to work all day and night as for living there.
I think of greedy Landlords as being blood sucking vampires who sink their fangs into their victims savings and income.
Sometimes that is quite true, but more often than not its not. I've probably rented more than a dozen places in my life and Ive only had bad landlords three times, and two of them were really bad. (So bad they were both in serious trouble with the local building authorities over safety violations) But the others were all good. Several were like family.
Edit: That said, there are so many people being forced out of cities now, its really horrible. People should be aware that the choice to vote for any kind of not for profit anything has been taken away by trade agreements and nobody has been told this. The same has occurred for other once public services. Even public higher education is under attack. All this is being hidden. So our votes are being stolen, if thats what we want from politicians, they rigged the system so we wont get it without telling anybody. All around the world. That basically means that cities, where the decent public transport is, where most of the jobs are, have been made unaffordable for most of the people who live in them today. We just don't know it yet.
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After watching the last video, I cringed at the idea of even considering giving so much money upfront for a rental unit - imagine if that was the case at her current place? If such place seems to be looking for upper class citizens (and presumably "clean" and "spotless" units), I can't help but imagine the owners or direct neighbours (assuming it is either a strip mall or an office park) would try to push her out anyways if they consider her business undesirable for the place - it could go from simple petty harassment to the extent of "accidents" or other shady rental contract clauses. The difference in this case would be the heavy financial leverage the owners would have over her.
At any rate, if time is of the essence (considering the old place will become a construction site), she could plan renting one or a few air conditioned storage facilities to place 90~95% of the lab equipment, get a small month-to-month rent place to sleep and take one or two months (not more than that) to carefully search properties in the area. After getting the unit, clear the storage entirely so you don't bleed financially storing unused equipment.
We did this when we sold our previous house but did not have another one lined up - it took us exactly two months of an apartment rent and a storage unit. However, the key word in this is discipline - if you slack or get analysis paralysis, the transitional phase becomes permanent.
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Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
I've learned that even if you own you still need to be mobile. The neighborhoods around ours were 'gentrified' and so everyone who was forced out of those came into ours. We had houses being flipped and hiding from baby's daddy renters along with the typical drug dealers and wannabe gang bangers. We had to sell and move.
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In the latest video Shocking! Terrifying! Halloween Toy Autopsy! on The Raven Poems it sounds really sad, maybe i am getting the wrong end of the stick but the poems seem connected to the situation. I also mean with the trouble of being locked out of Patreon and not getting the donations through.
"A visitor tapping on the chamber door only this. Nothing more."
"Had to borrow from books sir case of sorrow"
"I opened wide the door, darkness there, nothing more."
It can be like Fran clutching at straws if things don't go well after the move.
Made me feel miserable hearing that.
Sounds caught in a trap in not being able to secure property with a mortgage.
I suppose everyone will have to donate even more down the line so that Fran doesn't end up becoming homeless.
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It is fucking absurd to say that Fran is being chucked out because of trans when she is the final victim (and she is a victim as all the tenants have been)
Everyone is treated like shit here. :--
Yes. It would be absurd to say that she’s being chucked out for being trans. But literally nobody said or otherwise suggested that.
I brought up being trans as a potential explanation for why she is so intent on staying not just in Philly, but in the neighborhood, as opposed to moving to the countryside (where real estate is cheap) as many people have suggested to her.
And just to be clear, this is just idle speculation on my part, as a gay person myself. She’s said absolutely nothing about this issue either way. It could be entirely other reasons behind her desire to stay local.
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In the latest video Shocking! Terrifying! Halloween Toy Autopsy! on The Raven Poems it sounds really sad, maybe i am getting the wrong end of the stick but the poems seem connected to the situation. I also mean with the trouble of being locked out of Patreon and not getting the donations through.
She is locked out of Patreon, but I don't think the donations will stop, her existing bank account setup should continue to work just fine.
She just can't access it to say thanks and post updates etc. Still sucks of course.
Sounds caught in a trap in not being able to secure property with a mortgage.
I suppose everyone will have to donate even more down the line so that Fran doesn't end up becoming homeless.
That' why I think she needs to make the move now, otherwise it's just kicking the can one year down the road.
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And just to be clear, this is just idle speculation on my part, as a gay person myself. She’s said absolutely nothing about this issue either way. It could be entirely other reasons behind her desire to stay local.
It is a factor, trust me.
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Here in the US I can see a very wide range of communities ranging from welcoming to indifferent to hostile to different people. (Meaning different of every kind) The tolerant communities are the ones where people do the best in. And living with different people we realize that they are oftentimes more like ourselves than we realized. And, then we get along. Even get along great.
We really do need to step back and take a look at ourselves and realize that intolerance is not a trait that is positively correlated with either survival or prosperity.
The people some want us to be is not the people we are or that we want to be. We're not the people the haters are trying to turn us into.
Its surprising how people from wildly divergent backgrounds can and do get along when they find themselves in welcoming environment with one another. I've seen it happen.
Thats when magical things happen in terms of creativity, too.
What are we afraid of, success?
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Why is Fran locked out of Patreon?
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I live in the greater Portland, Oregon area and Portland is the 2nd ranked LGBT-friendly city according to NerdWallet
Ref: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/ (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/)
The #1 city is San Francisco (surpassing Seattle). However, SF is also the #1 most expensive city to live in the US.
Portland has a good maker-community and Fran would find a much more friendly reception here. And Portland plays the role of "San Francisco" to the Silicon Forest" which is well beyond just Intel and Tek and Micron, et.al.
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I live in the greater Portland, Oregon area and Portland is the 2nd ranked LGBT-friendly city according to NerdWallet
Ref: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/ (https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/top-lgbt-friendly-cities-2015/)
The #1 city is San Francisco (surpassing Seattle). However, SF is also the #1 most expensive city to live in the US.
Portland has a good maker-community and Fran would find a much more friendly reception here. And Portland plays the role of "San Francisco" to the Silicon Forest" which is well beyond just Intel and Tek and Micron, et.al.
For sure. But Portland is also very expensive. I haven’t looked at any numbers, but I doubt it’s much cheaper than Philly — and the cost of moving the lab cross-country would consume a significant amount of budget.
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Here in the US I can see a very wide range of communities ranging from welcoming to indifferent to hostile to different people. (Meaning different of every kind) The tolerant communities are the ones where people do the best in. And living with different people we realize that they are oftentimes more like ourselves than we realized. And, then we get along. Even get along great.
We really do need to step back and take a look at ourselves and realize that intolerance is not a trait that is positively correlated with either survival or prosperity.
The people some want us to be is not the people we are or that we want to be. We're not the people the haters are trying to turn us into.
Its surprising how people from wildly divergent backgrounds can and do get along when they find themselves in welcoming environment with one another. I've seen it happen.
Thats when magical things happen in terms of creativity, too.
What are we afraid of, success?
:::sigh:::
The sad thing is that so many Americans seem to have forgotten the extent to which our diversity enriched us as a nation, and have now reverted to “everyone who came before me is OK, but no more!” and rabid interpretations of the Bible to justify their internal bigotry. But above all, they’ve been emboldened. As a multiple targeted minority (gay and half Latin American, and the bonus of being honorary “eurotrash” for having lived here — yes, I’ve been called that in USA), this both saddens and terrifies me.
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is Philadelphia a ghetto?
yep confirmed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLTkIhdyYjY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLTkIhdyYjY)
have faith
'Even if your hood looks bombed and depleted don't let your soul be defeated. Faith in Jesus Christ saves eternally. This life is temporary. Material things will always fade and crumble. '
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They should tax houses that sit vacant really really heavily. I think that is the #1 beef about housing - many East Coast Americans cite Europeans, but really, the problem is not evenly distributed. Some Russians are absentee landlords, on the West Coast people blame Chinese but I think reently laws there have limited foreign investment.
The buying up of housing and people not living in it is not confined to any one country. On the West Coast vacant houses that are kept empty - but are investments are called 'ghost houses'. many of them are not kept up and they just sit there, a constant reminder of growing inequality.
Here in the US I can see a very wide range of communities ranging from welcoming to indifferent to hostile to different people. (Meaning different of every kind) The tolerant communities are the ones where people do the best in. And living with different people we realize that they are oftentimes more like ourselves than we realized. And, then we get along. Even get along great.
We really do need to step back and take a look at ourselves and realize that intolerance is not a trait that is positively correlated with either survival or prosperity.
The people some want us to be is not the people we are or that we want to be. We're not the people the haters are trying to turn us into.
Its surprising how people from wildly divergent backgrounds can and do get along when they find themselves in welcoming environment with one another. I've seen it happen.
Thats when magical things happen in terms of creativity, too.
What are we afraid of, success?
:::sigh:::
The sad thing is that so many Americans seem to have forgotten the extent to which our diversity enriched us as a nation, and have now reverted to “everyone who came before me is OK, but no more!” and rabid interpretations of the Bible to justify their internal bigotry. But above all, they’ve been emboldened. As a multiple targeted minority (gay and half Latin American, and the bonus of being honorary “eurotrash” for having lived here — yes, I’ve been called that in USA), this both saddens and terrifies me.
I have it from somebody I trust that there are fake bigots online, people who are literally being paid to go online and pretend to be bigots. At least thats what I think he was trying to tell me in our short half hour long lunchtime conversation over beer.
This person is an ad industry veteran who came here from Europe during an era when everybody in Europe smoked. He went to work defending 'smokers rights'. Now he no longer smokes and has put on a lot of weight.
he knows a lot about the darker side of the online world. I hadn't seen him in years, since before the Internet existed, so thats what we talked about.
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They should tax houses that sit vacant really really heavily. I think that is the #1 beef that many East Coast Americans have with Europeans, their buying up housing and not living in it. There is a similar problem on the West Coast with so called 'ghost houses'. many of them are not kept up and they just sit there, a constant reminder of growing inequality.
I've heard Europeans accused of many things by Americans, but believe me, this isn't one of them! I have absolutely no idea where you got this idea, but it's got no foundation in reality. I can't rule out that it might be the case in some very specific locations, but it's absolutely not the case on the east coast as a whole. Heck, Europeans don't even buy homes in their home countries nearly as much as Americans do, never mind vacation or investment homes in USA. (Most of USA is not that attractive to Europeans, to be blunt.) I'm not saying that no Europeans own US real estate, but this just is not a reason why Americans hate on Europeans!!!
I don't think you can generalize about the west coast, either, but in San Francisco specifically, you have a weird situation where there is a severe housing shortage AND high vacancy, because their tenancy laws make it essentially impossible to evict a tenant, so when people buy a building they want to convert back into a single-family house, or merge a few apartments into a bigger one for their own use, they cannot have anyone living in it. So as tenants move of their own volition, they don't re-rent, but just keep it vacant until the building (or the adjacent units) is free and they can begin construction.
Meanwhile, look at places like London and New York, which really do have tons of high-end real estate being bought as investment properties by ultrawealthy investors from China, Russia, and the Middle East. (Switzerland largely put an end to this, to stop such investment from making mountain resort villages desolate outside of the ski season, as well as pricing locals out of the real estate market. Some of those villages passed laws outlawing vacation home sales, i.e. mandating that it must be a primary residence.)
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Yes, I know that's a real thing. But few Europeans are responsible for that, and even fewer Americans put this anywhere on their list of gripes about Europeans! ;)
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Yes, I know that's a real thing. But few Europeans are responsible for that, and even fewer Americans put this anywhere on their list of gripes about Europeans! ;)
When you used that term, "euro trash" thats what my mind immediately went to because thats what younger people call them.. these people are legendary. Yes, many of them are probably Russian, etc.
The term which I think is much more appropriate for them is the one the "old Russians" use, "New Russians".
"Euro Trash" to me means much more people like Edina and Patsy in the BBC series Absolutely Fabulous. Kind of dated but very descriptive of people who existed in large numbers back in the 90s.
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You're thinking way too specifically, man! ;)
The people who call someone "eurotrash" simply for having lived in Europe for a few years are a) not the kind of people who know anything about Europe (or any place outside USA, for that matter, or even much within USA, really!), and b) don't actually care about any particular characteristics, they just use against you whatever you've got. It's just a handy xenophobic insult they can hurl at anyone who isn't a flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot". The same kind of people who, when we were kids, admonished me to "go back to Guallamalla" [sic].
My entire point was that the world-ignorant bigots in USA who used to be somewhat kept in check now feel emboldened to wear their bigotry with pride, and are taking that to ever-increasing violence, too.
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I totally agree with you about racism and other forms of discrimination.
Since this thread was originally about housing, and the phenomenon of profit mad investors, and flippers and their ilk, making housing impossible for normal people to afford, and driving people out of their homes without even a by or leave, as Dave would say, its important to see how communities of all kinds are threatened by these changes. This is being done to disempower all communities. Its what Hannah Arendt calls 'atomisation' .
Housing is really important. Affordable housing is necessary for progressive communities to exist and that is under attack for reasons that go way beyond simple profit seeking.
Anyway, I wrote out a long post but decided not to post it, its not super relevant to this thread now, but let me just say we have to be pro active and fight for new housing to be created especially for creative people and non-commercial activity.
Which is being targeted. Anything thats not for profit is under attack.
I also feel that we're being manipulated, people everywhere now are being manipulated in a coordinated way to cover up a huge theft that we would all agree is wrong.
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That' why I think she needs to make the move now, otherwise it's just kicking the can one year down the road.
IMHO Looking after your mental health is the #1 issue and so it's really good to see the GoFundMe being so successful and and the effect that it had on Fran's outlook. From a dark place to a more optimistic one.
It is a sad reality that suicide rates are depressingly high.
Moving away is hard and strains support networks... far better to 'rightsize' but stay as close to where you want to be as you can, the Northern Liberties sound cool.
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You're thinking way too specifically, man! ;)
The people who call someone "eurotrash" simply for having lived in Europe for a few years are a) not the kind of people who know anything about Europe (or any place outside USA, for that matter, or even much within USA, really!), and b) don't actually care about any particular characteristics, they just use against you whatever you've got. It's just a handy xenophobic insult they can hurl at anyone who isn't a flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot". The same kind of people who, when we were kids, admonished me to "go back to Guallamalla" [sic].
My entire point was that the world-ignorant bigots in USA who used to be somewhat kept in check now feel emboldened to wear their bigotry with pride, and are taking that to ever-increasing violence, too.
I don't see much difference between calling someone "flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot"" and
calling someone eurotrash
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I don't see much difference between calling someone "flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot"" and
calling someone eurotrash
Stereotypes, langwadt, stereotypes. Just like single out christian religion when talking about bigotry (one reference here (https://www.npr.org/2018/06/16/620651574/faith-leaders-oppose-trumps-immigration-policy-of-separating-children-from-paren)).
Anecdotal evidence but, in my experience, people of all backgrounds that are open to listen to another opinion (actually listen and not pretend to) tend to be very reasonable. I happen to live in Texas and know *a lot* of "flag-waving, pickup-driving, gun-toting super-"patriot"" that are absolutely reasonable about immigration/foreigners and care to listen to contrary opinions. And some of them are not from here, but also migrated from many other areas of the country and the world.
That' why I think she needs to make the move now, otherwise it's just kicking the can one year down the road.
IMHO Looking after your mental health is the #1 issue and so it's really good to see the GoFundMe being so successful and and the effect that it had on Fran's outlook. From a dark place to a more optimistic one.
It is a sad reality that suicide rates are depressingly high.
Moving away is hard and strains support networks... far better to 'rightsize' but stay as close to where you want to be as you can, the Northern Liberties sound cool.
Definitely. The mental stress of moving is very high, especially when you have a lot to do yourself.
At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
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rsjsouza, what do you mean, how much do you pay, and what do you mean by 'maintenance'?
Do you live in a place where they force you to pay for landscaping?
This reminds me of something..
Poor and working people 'who are given opportunities' to rent 'below market rate housing' in newly constructed environments of all kinds in the US, rarely manage to hold on to these 'homes' for long.
(builders had or sometimes have agree to build in some low cost housing when they are displacing lots of non-wealthy people)
So suppose a displaced family, after waiting years on a waiting list, is given the opportunity to rent in their old neighborhood in SF, NYC, Philly or wherever, at way below market rate in one of these new buildings, maybe they build in a separate entrance for them in back.
Anyway, its been found that they rarely last long in these situations because various other costs and fees just add up to often make the situation totally unworkable for them, and they lose these supposedly affordable homes. This is because those fees, unlike their rents, are not specifically supposed to be affordable.
A similar situation applies to health insurance where oftentimes, costs passed on in toto to supposedly insured people which are not covered materialize and those fees can be totally unexpected and astronomical.
For example, $70,000 unexpected fees arriving after a spine operation because a surgeons regular anesthesiologists canceled and rather than put off the operation they used an out of network one. This stuff, which is called 'drive by doctoring' happens all the time.
The message is, stay away from using your insurance if you are poor, or we'll make you pay a high price.
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In my opinion, there is a lot of truth to the opinions expressed by poor people everywhere these days, including the working class people who many try to frame as 'rednecks' (an interesting term that in the distant past referred to trade unionists !) who say that the system has been turned into one that no longer represents them. I have rarely seen those people be bigots, more often than not they see more in common with other people in their economic condition and its not based on race.
More often than not, these days the gatekeepers to access to the media fall over backwards to find some excuse, any excuse to trivialize and dismiss their staements or arguments, nomatter who they come from.
Around the world these excuses vary quite a bit but the aggressive way they are squelched and intelligent conversation prevented is common to all of them.
They try to fit them into a number of constructed frames which have been stripped of essential contextual information in order to hide the truth in them.
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Nivag Swerdna, what do you mean by 'maintenance'?
Did I say that?
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Nivag Swerdna, what do you mean by 'maintenance'?
Did I say that?
I think it was directed to me. I repeated myself while writing my post :palm:
What I meant to say is:
"At any rate, owning a place also adds a lot of costs - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance."
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It's not just property flippers Fran has had trouble with.
University asked her to help clear out a lab, after answering everyone questions about what things were and leaving, the students and staff promptly cleared everything out including most of what she put aside to collect.
No doubt it's all been listed for sale on ebay, by people who barely know what it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_znnfw0tQFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_znnfw0tQFc)
Yes I hate ebay flippers too, if you have no clue what something is don't buy it to sell at a profit!
Not to mention all the stuff they bin as it's not 'worth' their time to sell it, or they think no one would want it.
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It's not just property flippers Fran has had trouble with.
University asked her to help clear out a lab, after answering everyone questions about what things were and leaving, the students and staff promptly cleared everything out including most of what she put aside to collect.
No doubt it's all been listed for sale on ebay, by people who barely know what it is.
If its a university then good chance its gone into electronics recycling/garbage, same as would be done at most companies. I wouldn't assume malicious intent yet.
If you take extra effort to sell it, profit goes to the company. So it means more work for you for zero benefit.
Lesson learned: don't put things aside to collect, take them at the time they are offered.
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She probably had to get a friend with a car to help. Poof, equipment gone.
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This is crazy, she needs to GTFO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJPK-99gMw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJPK-99gMw)
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She needs to get out. She only has one life, one set of lungs.
She should *shed stuff and not acquire any new stuff*.
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i think she can race the local youth on quads or motorcycles to make some money like in the fast and the furious according to my research about that city
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At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.
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I see more money is being poured into the GoFundMe campaign.
If it gets any better hopefully she can buy a property.
Not including those who donated using Paypal.
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There are a lot of other factors that determine the value of property. One of them is the proximity to employment. The value of a place to live is determined by both the value to people of living near family and friends, as well as work. Weather, and cultural life and especially, the intangible but very important things like government and level of integrity or corruption matter a great deal. All the other stuff in the world matters little if a country is not safe too. There is a huge benefit to being in an environment where people trust one another because they are in fact, trustworthy. Property may be grossly overvalued if it is in a place where the people in charge are not in fact trustworthy, while people think they are.
There is also a phenomenon, similar to the not invented here phenomenon, or familiarity breeds contempt, which leads many people to tend to want to invest elsewhere, oftentimes its not necessarily because of common sense, its just based on perceptions which may be wrong.
At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.
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Recently in England many are trapped in what they call "Fleeceholds" sold under fancy names such as "Virtual Freeholds" which they are often misconstrued as "Virtually it is a freehold" nonsense and it has gotten so bad they recently banned new homes without including the land it is sold on. I read the investments firms the land is sold charge £108 for queries like to find out how much it is to buy the freehold, over £600 for a pet license and over £120 to put up picture or a blind on ground clauses and after consent for building works they want four figure sums if they went ahead.
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In Scotland, leasehold is largely a thing of the past, with a previous government having ruled that leaseholder could buy-out their feu by putting down a sum which would return a given amount in interest.
Most blocks of flats here are jointly owned by the residents. :-+
Of course you can still rent office space or the like, as a tenant.
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At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
Your commentary is sensible and, historically speaking, property ownership tends to have an ever increasing but very long term significant return on investment.
However, such skewed economy that turns property into pure investments (flippers, empty houses, etc.) increases the risk of such long term financial commitment and makes people pause before hedging their savings on this - mortgage and taxes can be an unsustainable part of the income of young people and families, not to mention gentrification (the subject du jour). This is specially true after entire families have been burned by the 2008 crisis, where financially independent younger generations are moving this down on their list priorities (a while ago I read this in a few references around). Another thing that contributes to this is the immense college debt.
With a heated economy, the allure of the financial market flips the equation towards having the down payment money invested in finance products and recovering their rental expenses through it - in other words, you build your equity not in a house but in cashflow. In the long run it tends to pay off or at least get close enough, but obviously this always depends on your own financial skills or advice.
As anecdotal evidence, twelve years ago a very financially savvy friend used to have three properties for rental in two states and was considering adding a one more to his portfolio. Fast forward to today, all his money is on the finance market. Another friend living in California went upside down on his house and ten years later he has yet to recover from that loss.
In another country and era (2002), I paid for my apartment in full with my savings and lived on it for a few years. Economy tanked, my job moved to another the country and I got almost no return in selling it (strenuous consequences, but still a fact of life). My parents have about four properties (apart from their own) and the return is about 0.5~1% a year when comparing to the total value of the properties - that on a country with an economy that pays 6~7%/yr interest in a conservative investment.
To me this is quite similar to the folks that challenge the cost of higher education: with the amount of money saved, one could potentially invest it now and gain in the long run, but that takes discipline and skills. Not everybody will be successful.
All that said, I still own a house and bleed every year we make a comparison with rental - financially it is a disaster, but there are many other practical/psychological factors involved, especially when you have kids.
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Was that before or after January 1, 1995?
In Scotland, leasehold is largely a thing of the past, with a previous government having ruled that leaseholder could buy-out their feu by putting down a sum which would return a given amount in interest.
Most blocks of flats here are jointly owned by the residents. :-+
Of course you can still rent office space or the like, as a tenant.
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All that said, I still own a house and bleed every year we make a comparison with rental - financially it is a disaster, but there are many other practical/psychological factors involved, especially when you have kids.
Would it still be a disaster though if you look 10, 20 or even 30 years into the future? I don't know how old you are, but let's say you decide to retire and downsize, move into a rented apartment or assisted living home. If you own your house, in the case of most people it would be paid off by then and will have appreciated substantially. I know people sometimes get underwater with houses but I've never met someone who has owned the same house for 20+ years and is still underwater. Anyway if you own, you have a valuable asset you can sell or rent out to someone else, whereas if you had rented all that time you'd have nothing. Someone else would have that valuable asset you helped pay for.
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No investment is risk free.
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No but some are much safer than others, and if you never take any risk at all you will never have any reward either. If you make investments, there is a risk you will lose. If you don't invest in anything, you *will* lose.
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Have you seen the figures on student debt?
The level of student debt is insane.
At least one's house is something you can use. This is why real estate is called real.
But, good luck making enough money, the jobs and housing situation for young people is really horrible.
It was bad when I was their age but its ten times worse now.
So the advice to people to 'invest' seems *sigh* like a cop out.
Many Americans don't even have the money to buy basics, let alone invest.
A huge chunk of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
They are working two or more jobs and just barely keeping a roof over their heads.
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I'm young and I have a house, 3 cars, 2 kids a motorcycle. You know what I did with my student debt? I paid it off and didn't get a degree in gender studies. Young people have problems but a lot of them are THEIR problems. Not the worlds. I don't know why you keep leaving 3 messages for every single 1 but it's pretty excessive.
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Many Americans don't even have the money to buy basics, let alone invest.
A huge chunk of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
They are working two or more jobs and just barely keeping a roof over their heads.
I saw a documentary a couple of months ago and I cannot remember the name of it but they showed people in California living in caravans and lorries all parked up on the roads in some areas because the landlords raised the rent so much and some of them had respectful jobs. One of them lived in a car and worked for Google.
A place was opened for them to go toilet, wash and shower.
They said they find that they are able to save something that way even though it still won't be enough to afford a house there but it is better than loosing all the money to the landlords or blood sucking vampires.
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I'm not saying there aren't problems, or that wage inequality is not an issue, or that living in some areas is even viable for most people, but that doesn't change the fact that for virtually anywhere, renting is much more expensive in the long run and property is generally speaking a very sound, conservative investment. When looking at time periods in the 20-30 year range I think one would be hard pressed to find an instance where property value had not increased.
A long time ago I set a goal for myself to buy a house by the time I was 25 and I just barely squeaked by and accomplished that. Things were very tight for a while, I borrowed $5k from my mom which was the most she could afford to loan me, I packed a lunch every day instead of eating in the cafeteria at work for a couple years. I had to get one of those scary adjustable rate mortgages and a separate equity loan and after signing the papers I had a whole $52 left to my name. I immediately rented out a room to somebody and had at least one roommate for the first 7 years I was in the place. As soon as I could afford it I started paying extra principal each month and when interest rates bottomed out I refinanced to a 15 year mortgage which again was cutting things a bit close. I've never bought a new car, I rarely eat out, instead of buying things like a new TV I've always gotten broken ones for free and fixed them myself. For about 10 years I didn't have much extra money but now things are starting to change. The amount I still owe is less than $100k which is a nice psychologically pleasing threshold. My house is worth well over twice what I paid for it, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I'll be paid off and own my home free and clear by my mid 40s. That is something I greatly look forward to, it will be a big weight off my shoulders and I cannot imagine the feeling of gloom I would have knowing that instead of relief I could look forward to a lifetime of paying more and more money into something that would never be mine. Even if my salary never increases beyond what I make today, I'll be doing just fine. Without a mortgage to pay each month I could even get by on minimum wage if I had to.
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In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.
Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?
I think it might have something to do with the landlord or building company.
It is not like Fran insulted some some religion of have extremist views and I see nothing political in the videos.
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Her landlord probably has retained a slumlord lawyer to harass her, which might at this stage be things like demands for inspections or demands for various work-peoples access or notifications that the power or water or heat will be off.
If, 'having been given legal notice' she doesn't do whatever the law requires her to let them do then they would claim grounds for a lawsuit against her.
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All that said, I still own a house and bleed every year we make a comparison with rental - financially it is a disaster, but there are many other practical/psychological factors involved, especially when you have kids.
Would it still be a disaster though if you look 10, 20 or even 30 years into the future?
It could go either way. My crystal ball is out for repairs.
What I can say is that, some of the expenses required for infrastructure work in my house in the past few years will never be recovered. A lot can be said about how houses are cheaply built with damn wood that rots away after a few decades (give me a brick and mortar house any day), the terrible Dallas soil that obliterates any slab foundation after 15~20 years, the EPA merry-go-round that outlaws refrigerant gases every two decades or so (and air conditioning unit repairs become more and more expensive), the neighbourhoods that suffer natural disasters or become surrounded by rundown places which contribute to your own property, and so on.
As I said before, I know people that went underwater and ten years later are still in the very long path to recover. Others that have moved away from this. You can build your equity in many ways along your life.
My biggest criticism is to not take at face value the belief that you will ALWAYS be better if you buy a house.
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My biggest criticism is to not take at face value the belief that you will ALWAYS be better if you buy a house.
Buying a house is always about location location location location.
I see a lot of similarities between james_s' story and my own situation (except for the room mate ^-^ ). When bought at the right price and in the right location a good quality house is a good pension fund. My home isn't particulary expensive or special but it sits in (what turns out) an excellent location. Whenever a house in the street is for sale it is sold within a couple of weeks. Even during the worst part of the 'credit crunch'.
In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.
Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?
Paranoia maybe. But then again she is kind of a public figure and that usually attracts all kind of crazy people. Over a decade ago I co-owned a company directory website and you really don't want to know how bat-sh*t crazy some people are.
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At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.
The most important thing about owning a property is that you become your own bank.
All your repayments go into an offset/redraw account and you can without that money at any time for any purpose at all, and at low housing interest rates, no bank approval needed.
For example, I bought my current lab with cash from our home loan. The same interest rate to buy commercial property on a separate commercial loan would have been about double. In effect I loaned my myself the money.
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At any rate, owning a place also carries a lot in maintenance - at least where I live, owning a properly in a residential area costs a lot more than renting mostly due to taxes and maintenance.
In the short term yes, in the long term that doesn't add up. If it were cheaper to rent than own, nobody would be a landlord.
I remember ~15 years ago people told me I was nuts to buy a house because renting was cheaper. Well at the time renting was cheaper but today a house like mine rents for a few hundred a month more than the payments on my current 15 year mortgage. In about 6 years my house will be paid off, I'll own it free and clear, and my monthly payment will drop to just tax and maintenance. If I were renting there would be no light at the end of the tunnel, I'd have to keep renting forever and when I become too old to work and/or rents increase to a point I'd be forced to move elsewhere. This way if I decide to move some day, I'll have a very valuable asset I can sell, I'll very likely get back everything I paid into it and then some. I've encountered quite a few people who seem not to grasp that renting does not save you from paying property taxes and maintenance, you're just paying someone elses property taxes and maintenance and it's rolled into the rent, and when you move out you get nothing, all that money has been paid into someone elses equity.
The most important thing about owning a property is that you become your own bank.
All your repayments go into an offset/redraw account and you can without that money at any time for any purpose at all, and at low housing interest rates, no bank approval needed.
For example, I bought my current lab with cash from our home loan. The same interest rate to buy commercial property on a separate commercial loan would have been about double. I in effect loaned my myself the money.
and house prices tend to follow each other, so when you own and want to move any increase/decrease of prices will affect the house you are selling in the same way as the one you are buying
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In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.
Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?
She pulled the video?
I didn't get to see it.
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I see a lot of similarities between james_s' story and my own situation (except for the room mate ^-^ ). When bought at the right price and in the right location a good quality house is a good pension fund.
Actually your house is an asset that produces zero income, and that doesn't help you at all in retirement unless you sell it and "down size" and pocket the difference in cash. In that respect it's often described as "dead money" although not in the same way as rent is.
The house in theory will go up in value with time though, so it's better than having the equivalent of cash in the bank or a share portfolio, but it's not like compounded interest.
Best way to think of a house is as a bank account indexed to inflation.
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Maybe we should try to find out the company/companies not being nice and let the crowd send them a flood of complaints by phone and email. Even if it doesn't stop them, costing them resources sounds like a way to get back at them. Maybe they'll even get some bad press.
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In Fran's latest video no packages will be opened unless confirmation is received first of what it is.
Fran mentions about an incidence with the post recently in the news but that has been going on for years.
Why now and not before?
She pulled the video?
I didn't get to see it.
Yes it is gone like it was never there.
This is the link from history (just called Youtube in history) but it was the last video that I saw last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBH8nUoSj-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBH8nUoSj-4#t=0m00s)
I left a comment which read something like:
"Wise. You might get something nasty off the landlord or building company".
Can't find any mirror copies elsewhere.
Just now I have incidentally found a blurred video thumbnail of the video Fran pulled down when I opened another copy of Chrome in the tiles page.
Looking at the picture and I think it was called "New Rules for Viewer Mail"
On searching there is keyword link to a Youtube clone website abcTube.org but the video is no longer there or in cache but the description:
Quote
"Sorry kids - You'll have to let me know what you're sending in for Viewer Mail in advance, and any ..."
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The lawyers who work for some developers are experts at terrifying people. bad developers are often real monsters. I don't know if that applies in this situation but having met many (other) would be developers and heard them laugh about what they do, and how they wont give people a moment of rest, I could easily imagine why she might have good reasons to be nervous.
Under that scenario, it could be a really really stressful situation for her.
I have met many of these would be princelings and princesses socially.
People have to understand, in the US, there is NO 'right to counsel' in civil cases, and winners often get to sue the losers 'for their legal costs' as well.
By not spending the hundreds of dollars an hour for a lawyer, somebody in a civil case where the law is stacked in favor of building owners, (giving them the benefit of the doubt in cases where they are "trying to improve their property") is certain to make some procedural mistake which loses their case.
The paralysis poor people exhibit when faced with this existential threat is for a good reason, they are statistically very likely to lose, even if they are still naive and unaware of the typical non-existence of any comprehensive system that in other countries always exists to protect them, something that often they don't grasp for some time, going around to various agencies and looking for help that is not there. This hunt for help and frustration wastes precious time and the inaction as the system sees it, plus the fatigue courthouse workers often overwhelmed cant help but feel at the endless stream of self-represented poor people who don't understand how the courts work, stacks the cards against them.
Fighting back for ones rights such as they may be, is only a rich persons game and rich people know that.
If they are that kind of developer, whatever she does now, they might try to work it into some attack on her.
Here, rich people, the ones with the lawyers, are always 'right'.
The statistics show that its a housing bloodbath out there right now for poor people, with evictions higher now than they have ever been before.
In this atmosphere, the sheer numbers of people who need help long ago began to cause a breakdown in all the structures that are supposed to protect them, and attorneys focus on 'triage' for the most unambiguous easiest cases, and try mostly to exact concessions from developers like more time for the soon-to-be dispossessed.
The kinds of services available illustrates how poor peoples lives are being destroyed, families broken up, in a systematic manner.
Compared to many others, Fran is actually a person whom one can see might actually be in physical danger outside of a city.
Its likely a visceral burden she's carried for a long time.
I doubt if she is in so much of a fighting mood - because of all her stuff that she feels is a part of her identity as a YouTuber.
But the stuff, and the urgent need she has for help getting a decent buyout, may be making it harder in terms of her ability to fight for what should be her right to compensation.
There will be more stuff in her future if she finds another place. Tons more old hardware is likely to become available as space becomes harder and harder to find. People will be giving it away.
She needs to put that stuff out of her mind and find a place to live. And be flexible as far as her next home, maybe it will just be a slightly larger apartment than the one she might get otherwise.
It seems to me to be almost impossible for a stressed person facing eviction, a non-attorney - to successfully make arguments for a settlement on behalf of themselves.
Slumlord and developer lawyers are very very slick and they have hundreds of ways they force people out of their homes and into the streets. Nomatter how smart or street-savvy a person may be, they are very very unlikely to win without a lawyer.
Its only when somebody is represented by counsel in the US that they are likely to get justice and almost no actual urban poor people are eligible for free help either.
People who have any kind of income are falling through the cracks in large numbers.
Once you have any income at all you are deemed capable of playing the game. Which is just a ludicrous proposition given its costs.
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No, that would likely not help at all. This is not the YouTube or the Internet.
The thing that she needs is a kick ass attorney who is on her side and affordable.
And especially, a place to live. A place to call home.
Maybe we should try to find out the company/companies not being nice and let the crowd send them a flood of complaints by phone and email. Even if it doesn't stop them, costing them resources sounds like a way to get back at them. Maybe they'll even get some bad press.
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Fran replied to someone in her new video "New Camera" about the video that was pulled down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qzxT19Zpaw&lc=Ugx1otEvQswPzjzxn5J4AaABAg.8nMqpvw3hVO8nMwPkUjMfk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qzxT19Zpaw&lc=Ugx1otEvQswPzjzxn5J4AaABAg.8nMqpvw3hVO8nMwPkUjMfk)
Quote from: Fran Blanche in video comment "New Camera"
I originally put up a video saying I'd do that but the comments were quite vitriolic, so I took that down and had to rethink the idea of viewer mail altogether.
vitriolic
filled with bitter criticism or malice
I wonder:
Were some of the mailbag viewers unhappy that they have to confirm what they send in.
Did the haters behave like that after watching because they had their plot spoiled by the requirement.
I wasn't around to see it any of that.
It sounds like she recently had some hate mail.
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A number of US cities have set up programs to stem the flood of evictions of unrepresented tenants by runaway gentrification.
Hiring an attorney in the United States is often beyond the means of poor as well as middle income tenants who fall through the cracks of a legal system that has no concept of a civil right to counsel like most other developed countries do.
This has led to an open season on tenants who live in areas where rents have been rising. ('Churning')
Philadelphia has recently been looking at providing help to the poorest tenants.
http://philadelphiabar.org/page/NewsItem?appNum=2&newsItemID=1001829 (http://philadelphiabar.org/page/NewsItem?appNum=2&newsItemID=1001829)
"if the City were to invest just $3.5 million annually to provide counsel for all low-income tenants facing eviction, it would receive a return of $45.2 million annually."
"only 7 percent of Philadelphia tenants are represented, compared to 80 percent of landlords"
"represented tenants are only displaced 5 percent of the time, compared to 78 percent of pro se (self-represented, i.e. lawyer-less) tenants."
For coverage of the report see:
Philadelphia Tribune
http://www.phillytrib.com/news/legal-aid-beneficial-to-tenants-study-says/article_e128fb37-0114-54fc-8cd5-8b65f3989634.html (http://www.phillytrib.com/news/legal-aid-beneficial-to-tenants-study-says/article_e128fb37-0114-54fc-8cd5-8b65f3989634.html)
WHYY
https://whyy.org/articles/study-philly-tenants-facing-eviction-too-often-lack-legal-representation/ (https://whyy.org/articles/study-philly-tenants-facing-eviction-too-often-lack-legal-representation/)
Philadelphia Weekly
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news/new-report-claims-city-could-save-millions-by-providing-lawyers/article_98e5bfca-e734-11e8-bb05-9f515a683ebc.html (http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news/new-report-claims-city-could-save-millions-by-providing-lawyers/article_98e5bfca-e734-11e8-bb05-9f515a683ebc.html)
PlanPhilly
http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/11/13/study-spending-now-on-legal-aid-for-renters-would-save-city-down-the-road (http://planphilly.com/articles/2018/11/13/study-spending-now-on-legal-aid-for-renters-would-save-city-down-the-road)
Next City
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/what-philadephia-could-gain-from-expanding-legal-aid-for-tenants (https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/what-philadephia-could-gain-from-expanding-legal-aid-for-tenants)
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It should be said though that everybody should be able to get help, not just the very poor. People whose income is more than the poverty line don't suddenly become able to afford $300 or more an hour fees.
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New York City’s first year of right to counsel kept 84% of tenants in homes
The New York City Office of Civil Justice has released its 2018 report
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/hra/downloads/pdf/services/civiljustice/OCJ-UA-2018-Report.pdf (https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/hra/downloads/pdf/services/civiljustice/OCJ-UA-2018-Report.pdf)
84 percent of all tenants who were provided an attorney in Housing Court remained in their homes (21,955 New Yorkers representing 7,847 households). It is especially notable that the 84 percent figure exceeds the 77 percent figure estimated by the NYC Independent Budget Office. Moreover, 97 percent of those receiving legal services for NYCHA administrative termination of tenancy were able to remain in their homes. These results demonstrate the incredible effectiveness of a right to counsel in preserving housing stability. In considering the reasons for that effectiveness, it is meaningful that nearly three-quarters of those receiving legal assistance for Housing Court obtained full representation.
Evictions conducted by (NYC) City Marshalls have dropped by 27 percent overall since 2013, and have declined steadily in all but one year since then;
30 percent of all tenants are now represented by an attorney
The right to counsel is reaching those most in need: the largest represented group was those making less than 50 percent of the federal poverty level, and half of the legal services recipients were receiving public benefits.
The 2018 report's release was covered by WNYC
https://www.wnyc.org/story/more-tenants-lawyers-city-says-evictions-are-dropping/ (https://www.wnyc.org/story/more-tenants-lawyers-city-says-evictions-are-dropping/)
and
The Real Deal
https://therealdeal.com/2018/11/14/why-eviction-rates-are-dropping-in-nyc/ (https://therealdeal.com/2018/11/14/why-eviction-rates-are-dropping-in-nyc/)
Media coverage of similar programs elsewhere.
The Arizona Daily Star
https://tucson.com/news/local/more-affordable-housing-right-to-legal-counsel-could-ease-tucson/article_29beed58-e769-11e8-8312-23aee3ac4e68.html (https://tucson.com/news/local/more-affordable-housing-right-to-legal-counsel-could-ease-tucson/article_29beed58-e769-11e8-8312-23aee3ac4e68.html)
looks at a number of different ways in which the eviction crisis in Tucson could be addressed, including the right to counsel.
The Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-tenant-advocates-launch-program-that-aims-to-help-renters-on-the-verge-of-eviction/500542492/ (http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-mayor-jacob-frey-tenant-advocates-launch-program-that-aims-to-help-renters-on-the-verge-of-eviction/500542492/)
covers the recent expansion of housing representation, and highlights the great work of Mid-Minnesota Legal Aid in Hennepin County (where a pilot has been running for a while).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These links are from http://civilrighttocounsel.org/ (http://civilrighttocounsel.org/)
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Insane!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRQ9wyZXJ2k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRQ9wyZXJ2k)
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Well even if you own a home the neighbours can start doing noisy construction work as well at 8 in the morning. Why hasn't Fran started packing yet???
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Why hasn't Fran started packing yet???
She has been. She has set up a storage facility with custom racks.
The problem is she hasn't found another place. I'm sure if she did have a place all her stuff would be packed and gone within days.
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Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.
Additionally, the building used to be a brake shoe company, so has anybody tested the air for asbestos fibers? If they are present, they need to stop stirring up the dust and set up negative air pressure blowing outward so it doesnt get blown into her space.
Also, are the workpeople doing that work, qualified to do asbestos remediation? Are they wearing appropriate personal protective equipment?
City inspectors need to know this kind of info.
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Not if they have asbestos there. If they do they need to follow special procedures such as hosing down the areas they are demolishing to reduce dust and disposing of the debris carefully so that it doesn't cause cancer for people. .
Well even if you own a home the neighbours can start doing noisy construction work as well at 8 in the morning. Why hasn't Fran started packing yet???
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Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.
These companies (and the law) don't care about what you deserve. Her lease is until July.
If it was me, almost everything would go straight to storage, and I'd find the cheapest medium term AirBnB (or equivalent) I could find and modify my content and business as required until a longer term solution can be found.
One of the problems is she's holding out for a longer term solution.
A list of co-working spaces in Philly:
Mostly not suitable, but some may be.
https://phillyviews.com/coworking-space-philadelphia/
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Right, exactly.
If they collect rent or have a contract to rent, there is an implied warantee of habitability during that period.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/implied_warranty_of_habitability (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/implied_warranty_of_habitability)
All US states except Arkansas have similar laws.
However, it seems as if the state's lack of a law could be challenged as if a business collects people's money they are expected to provide what people pay them for, a habitable space.
Not collect free money.
For a PA. example, see https://theincline.com/2018/01/05/the-renters-guide-to-surviving-pittsburgh-winters-frigid-apartments-and-frozen-pipes/ (https://theincline.com/2018/01/05/the-renters-guide-to-surviving-pittsburgh-winters-frigid-apartments-and-frozen-pipes/) about another Pennsylvania city, Pittsburgh.
Contrast Arkansas with California
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Apartment-Ceiling-Collapses-in-Logan-Heights-After-Water-Damage-490299071.html (https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Apartment-Ceiling-Collapses-in-Logan-Heights-After-Water-Damage-490299071.html)
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Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.
These companies (and the law) don't care about what you deserve. Her lease is until July.
True. And there is probably something in the leasing terms about allowing construction work on the property. Better to get out ASAP and be done with it.
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Given that she still has several months on her lease, and she is paying to live there, she deserves a habitable space for that entire time.
It's USA… such sensible concepts are generally not recognized by law. The "implied habitability" you mention is so pro-landlord that it usually doesn't cover quality of life in any meaningful way. :( (Or if they do, it's only for dwellings, not commercial properties.)
(Even here in Switzerland, where tenant protections are much stronger — while still being fair to landlords, I might add — you can't complain about construction being done in adjacent units, provided the work is done outside of the statutory "quiet hours" of nighttime and lunch.)
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I agree, she does need to get out because of her health.
But - really, what may be happening may have a lot of ominous overtones.
In one of her videos she shows where something white and fluffy and fibrous that looks like asbestos was just painted over previously.
She explained the fact that the building used to be a company that manufactured brake shoes .
If its got an addressable asbestos issue, its not rocket science, it just means that any demolition work should be done with the proper precautions, by people qualified to do it, after the building is vacant.
If there is asbestos in the building, what they may be doing, given that she still has a lease, could be seen as more akin to a deliberate attack on her life and health, not 'just' a condition incidental to 'the work'. If there is danger, also a failure to inform everybody appropriate of the issue may also endanger others, such as the workpeople, -
Its really evil if a hazard exists and they are not made aware of this potential hazard.
If the building indeed used to make brake shoes, those owners likely bought the building at a discount because of this history. So doing a proper cleanup would likely come with the territory. No cleanup, no future healthy building. They could likely get grants which go to such things, especially if they are in economically distressed areas.
In Hackensack, NJ, a picturesque old industrial building was bought and fixed up by an artist collective. It turned out to have previously been a factory that made mercury sunlamps and the building was heavily contaminated to the point of having pools of liquid mercury collect in voids inside the buildings walls. Inhabitants were beginning to show symptoms of mercury intoxication. It was condemned as unsafe and after a lengthy and expensive cleanup process was put on the market as a bunch of million dollar condos.
The distinction between dwellings and commercial property likely doesn't extend a permission to expose tenants of any kind to unhealthy or carcinogenic materials in any situation.
Yes, I think Fran should get on top of moving her stuff out, ASAP, even if she has no place to go, she has to do her best to minimize the damage to her future health.
If she cannot clean her stuff (she shouldn't because it will take up precious time) she should just bag it all up, put it in trash bags double bag it and mark it with red tape, for future cleaning, and then get out of there.
The disposable N-95 or P95 mask (if that is what it is) she is wearing is likely not good enough for this situation, she needs a P-100 HEPA filter (magenta colored) I use a pro-quality half-face North respirator for even the most mundane dusty tasks. The filters though are not as cheap as I would prefer but it gets the job done. She could also use it with pancake filters which are a lot cheaper but I don't think quite as good.
She should wear disposable PPE clothing over her regular clothes and throw them out at the end of the day. Or she is going to have that stuff in her clothes.
She has to put her own health first. And get out of there.
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lol fuck them, you can spill a bag of asbestos fibers into a vent and fucking cost everyone major money. all that time sensitive investment bullshit some fucking v is worrying about can be easily dwarfed by abatment contractors and permits.
that kind of thing does not happen unless someone has some insane time sensitive financial theory. It;s probably small too. it's probobly some cracked out bullshit about the 'post holiday season xxre==k' or something. I swear. If a board of investors had to listen to why this is occurring, they would fall asleep. some insane amount of planning probobly went into crunching a few percent off the price at everyone elses expense. that should be turned around.
imo the action of those workers constitutes as chemical and psychological warfare.
also all the shit applying to residential etc does not apply to some shitty factory thats been converted into a living space. You have different transmittance of forces/noises/dust in such a environment then residential. If my neighbors did heavy work it would be much more tolerable then some giant ass wall designed in 1930 being pounded on the other side. their wormy fucks and they def know it being in the trades. those cunts know how it will sound and feel on the other side cuz they worked in that kinda shit before. the roof structure is also different and it is less tolerable/isolating of work most likely.
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Subcontractors often hire work-people by the day for jobs like that- to do the actual work -
They are just people who are trying to feed their families.
They are likely not trying to be noisy, they likely were hired for the day or a few days off the side of the street, given a sledgehammer or a crowbar and told 'demolish this'.
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someones paying them and making a work schedule though
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I can see why it is going to be troublesome moving out.
In her later videos I see there is a lot more in the lab and the heavy machinery.
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Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
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You can say that again. A couple of years ago a friend sold for the price of a fancy coffee a Tek 7000 mainframe with two plugins simply due to the sheer lack of space (it wasn't anything out of this world in specs, though). Unfortunately I was in a very special situation and could not take it. :(
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Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
Also the huge hassle in trying to sell it. Logistics sucks for big heavy items.
It's even too much hassle for people to come pick it up for free.
I'm starting to toss out stuff that I hate to do, but I know it's just too much hassle otherwise.
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Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
We tend to look at gear and dream about it. The reality is that the real estate gear occupies quickly becomes more expensive than the gear itself, especially the more sizeable stuff. Square meters are expensive.
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Also the huge hassle in trying to sell it. Logistics sucks for big heavy items.
It's even too much hassle for people to come pick it up for free.
I'm starting to toss out stuff that I hate to do, but I know it's just too much hassle otherwise.
That is why dumpster rooms exist. Your junk, someone else's treasure. :P
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Perhaps the main reason so very much older equipment is on the market for so little (or even tossed out) is the sheer cost of the space one needs to keep it in.
We tend to look at gear and dream about it. The reality is that the real estate gear occupies quickly becomes more expensive than the gear itself, especially the more sizeable stuff. Square meters are expensive.
Lab office space in my business park is $300-$400 sqm
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Just seen a picture of her
lab factory on Patreon.
It looks much more than lab like a factory setting all nicely arranged in the middle but a bit cramped
She disabled comments on her last video.
The situation is becoming worse and she is pleading for more help.
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She disabled comments on her last video.
The situation is becoming worse and she is pleading for more help.
That's because it's not a normal video, it's just a promotional video to be viewed on Patreon.
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Is that per year or - gasp - per month?
Lab office space in my business park is $300-$400 sqm
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Is that per year or - gasp - per month?
Lab office space in my business park is $300-$400 sqm
Oops, per year. I pay about $30k a year (not including outgoings, which is also largely based on sqm) for my 100sqm lab.
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Fran could use some of that equipment to help set up a hacker space/nonprofit and perhaps get some community or redevelopment grants to do it.
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She got a new space! :-+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB6_IonNvhI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB6_IonNvhI)
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This is really good news.
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It is going to be a good Christmas.
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I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.
I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.
What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
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I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.
I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.
What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
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I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.
I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.
What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
I know she doesn't own it. So even though she paid her lease they can still kick her out before the lease with some notice of course or take legal action to delay it which I can see may cost a lot.
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I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.
I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.
What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.
The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
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they can still kick her out before the lease with some notice of course or take legal action to delay it which I can see may cost a lot.
And that's the trick. They don't care and they know she doesn't have the money to fight it.
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I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.
The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.
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Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.
This is a complex subject and laws vary by state and by city. There are very great differences between jurisdictions.
I do not know of any jurisdiction which obligates the tenant to fulfill the term of a lease and yet allows the landlord to evict the tenant before the lease is up. I do not believe such thing exists and if there was even such law on the books I do not believe it would be upheld by the courts.
Something does not add up in the picture being presented which I find low on facts and charged with much emotion.
I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
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I tend to agree that we are not privy to all the facts in this conundrum, especially the contract terms (conditions for a commercial zone, applicability of penalties and determination of culpability, etc.), thus the discussion will forcefully be lead by emotions and guesswork.
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All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own. If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me. Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff.
Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord. Still need a form of down payment and steady income though. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own. If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me. Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff.
Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord. Still need a form of down payment and steady income though. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
The problem with that often is that everything becomes much more of a pain and that finding suppliers can be painful. People concentrate in cities for good reasons, even if that means space becomes woefully expensive.
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All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own. If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me. Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff.
Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord. Still need a form of down payment and steady income though. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
You are right Mr Squirrel. It is typical for a building owner to lease a building to someone to start a retail business, let's say selling ice cream. If it is successful, the lease will not be renewed and the owner then starts his own ice cream business in the same location. It is best to own your building if you want to operate a business.
AFAIK, Fran can live anywhere. Housing is cheap in upstate NY but you don't have all the "culture" or "entertainment" available to you that is in NYC or Philly.
Louis Rossmann in NYC has a thriving business, some of which is walk-in traffic. But Jessa Jones, who does similar work at iPad Rehab is in upstate NY, Honeoye Falls, NY (Population 2,674). Most of her business has to be mail in.
Good luck to Fran. I hope things work out for her.
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The problem with that often is that everything becomes much more of a pain and that finding suppliers can be painful. People concentrate in cities for good reasons, even if that means space becomes woefully expensive.
So what's so special about Philly (or NYC, or Silicon Valley, for that matter)?
At least as far as "local suppliers" in the electronics game, there isn't really anywhere in the US (or perhaps any other country except possibly China) Detroit is an example of the failure of concentrating in cities. That was a phenomenon of a previous century, at least for supply lines. Today we have the world-wide internet and global deliver services.
Although the number and size of mega-cities continues to grow in the 21st century. But it doesn't seem to have any relationship to supply lines. And the next pandemic will be devastating in mega-cities.
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I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
A transgender person.
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I was looking at the patreon channel and they sacked the negotiator and went back on their "promises" and they are not replying to her emails now.
I think she said about the landlord/builders wanting everyone out by March and her lease runs out in July.
What about refunding part of the lease.
How can that be legal?
It's the US. If you don't own it, it's not your decision.
I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.
The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
I suppose you mean a type of credit reporting agency? (In USA, the term “credit union” is already taken, and means a type of community-owned bank.)
And yes, it sounds like a great idea!
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I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
Broken?! That’s kind of an extreme opinion...
Meanwhile, she actually has a certain following specifically because of her voice, which they find calming.
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I have a co-worker who is a healthy man in his 30s but has voice of a 90 years old person. So that happens.
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It reminds me of Eevblog video but I can't remember what it was called.
It was about saving your money for when you're out of a job and Dave called it "screw you money."
In this case it seems the opposite.
The landlord makes profit out of the residents and screws them over by shortening their duration and using other various means with their own money from the leases. Any legal resistance will be met with more screw you money that the landlord throws at the lawyers to screw over the residents further.
Just an idea.
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If the average rent for an area is going up really fast, say 15% a year, and because lets say almost nobody's income is rising that fast, lets say that as a sort of act of desperation, a law gets passed by a municipality saying that no matter what rental agreements or leases say, people who rent for a month or longer are protected from arbitrary evictions and rent increases larger than the CPI, lets say that is 3.5% a year, for as long as they stay in an apartment, as long as they are a good tenant and pay rent on time and don't break laws.
However in a few years the going rate may be twice or more what long term tenants are paying.
What happens then? What is the solution? This is a real problem.
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She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public but the whatnot's? have yet to see the real "snowflakes" in her building in the form of dust or unless they themselves don't care about working in it and I thought builders were wearing protection from the dust and noise but it sounds in her videos like they're not.
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So what's so special about Philly (or NYC, or Silicon Valley, for that matter)?
At least as far as "local suppliers" in the electronics game, there isn't really anywhere in the US (or perhaps any other country except possibly China) Detroit is an example of the failure of concentrating in cities. That was a phenomenon of a previous century, at least for supply lines. Today we have the world-wide internet and global deliver services.
Although the number and size of mega-cities continues to grow in the 21st century. But it doesn't seem to have any relationship to supply lines. And the next pandemic will be devastating in mega-cities.
Maybe electronics is one of the more favourable fields, but that's not the only field of interest. I've worked out in the boondocks and getting things done is a hassle. Simple things can become a chore and tight planning becomes much more vital while still occasionally blowing up in your face. The advantage of a place like Silicon Valley is that everything and anything you could need is readily available. It's like a chemical reaction where all the required parts are readily available. It'll bang instead of fizz.
This does come at a price, so you'll have to see whether that makes sense to you.
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I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.
The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.
The problem is the ease enforcing those rights. Fran might very well have every legal right to stay and not have them demolish around her, but when I big company doesn't care and starts to do it, how easy is ti to enforce your right?
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Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord.
She doesn't want to leave Philly for various reasons.
Yes, she could buy a house on her own land in a small town with the crowd funding money, but that's not what she wants to do.
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So what's so special about Philly (or NYC, or Silicon Valley, for that matter)?
Party because it's a trans friendly city.
But a big city being a big city with it's extremes everywhere, you might be able to argue that a small town could be potentially safer.
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I really wish there is a credit union or such that monitors lenders and landlords. This way she can report that incident to that credit union and make their business that bit harder when they want to rent out anything again.
The state-run credit system of China currently monitors both ends of the contract. If a landlord goes back on a contract without proper compensation the tenant can report the incident to the landlord’s bank, which will result in a strike in the landlord’s general credit report.
Some basics rights protecting the renter would do, but the US system tends to heavily favour the landlord.
The problem is the ease enforcing those rights. Fran might very well have every legal right to stay and not have them demolish around her, but when I big company doesn't care and starts to do it, how easy is ti to enforce your right?
Exactly. The problem is, almost anybody who has the money to live in a major US city has too much money to get low cost help, and there lies the problem.
The rising rents have made it seem desirable to bad landlords to keep tenants moving in and out every few years. This subset of apartment building owning folk sometimes express feelings to the effect that they are missing out on huge profits by having long term tenants stay and pay rent on time for more than three or four years in the same apartment. They are the exception rather than the rule and many of them are new owners, but ... arrgh..
Sometimes in the past in some cities, (NYC) where neighborhoods were gentrifying rapidly, this occasionally quite hideously devolved into an arson situation.
There are now professionals who advertise their services in driving people out, who move in pretending to be just another building dweller and then drive the people living around them out by every dirty trick possible.
They advertise in apartment owners association yellow pages.
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She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public
I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
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Honestly, at this point, I think she should devote some quality time to asking other trans people about smaller towns. Along the Hudson River there are a lot of smaller towns (Nyack is one) that are not so gentrified, are nice, artsy, and I suspect would be welcoming, not hostile to her and her cool stuff.
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She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public
I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
I see on Patreon "I wish I could help... and if we all chpped in etc" maybe they can all help Fran by also exposing the situation about the building.
But I suppose for those that live far out, I am not sure if some live close or not, that they would have to travel there which maybe impractical.
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I see on Patreon "I wish I could help... and if we all chpped in etc"...
Is funding currently the biggest problem to be solved? Regardless, I would say that it wouldn't hurt and it's something a bit of distributed computing can help with.
https://pastebin.com/XvACe09K
I calculate that if just 1% of Fran's subscribers each set up a miner and share 80% of the profit with her, she would end up getting on the order of $11k per month. Seems too good to be true, but the percentage of viewers on a tech-oriented show who happen to have a Raspberry Pi and old Android phone or tablet lying around would probably be quite a bit more than 1%?
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Honestly, at this point, I think she should devote some quality time to asking other trans people about smaller towns.
I suggested that some time ago.
Too late now, she has a new lease signed.
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She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public
I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
That would be certainly an interesting fight. The problem is that, once this bottle is opened it can't be closed again. In one of her videos she mentioned the aversion to interact with people - imagine with journailsts, where several are specialists in the art of deception and distortion. That and the fact she would expose her businesses to public scrutiny.
She is a smart person and probably calculated all these risks, including personal safety - unfortunately, as I said before, we are not privy to all details about her lease contract and her business affairs.
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She is concerned about her viewers leaving her and that she will be called a snowflake and whatnots if she goes public
I don't really understand this thinking, people are always going to get behind the underdog. Small video blogger who has a rental contract gets screwed and the building around her containing asbestos gets demolished as she sleeps. This is a 6 o'clock news worthy David vs Goliath fight, and could be national coverage if played right. That fact that it involves family relations to Trump makes it all the more a juicy story.
That would be certainly an interesting fight. The problem is that, once this bottle is opened it can't be closed again. In one of her videos she mentioned the aversion to interact with people - imagine with journailsts, where several are specialists in the art of deception and distortion. That and the fact she would expose her businesses to public scrutiny.
She is a smart person and probably calculated all these risks, including personal safety - unfortunately, as I said before, we are not privy to all details about her lease contract and her business affairs.
So she wants to use her time and energy to continue with what she doing with the work to the best she can and not get distracted or derailed by unwanted attention.
I see that what keeps the subscribers in and the support and the videos going.
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All this situation makes me fortunate that I'm in a situation where I own. If I did ever build up a hobby into a business I don't have to worry too much about having the rug pulled from under me. Though I guess there is the whole thing of municipalities often not liking people doing business in their home, but it's easier to hide for online stuff.
Since Youtube is what she does wonder how viable it would be for her to just move somewhere really cheap where she can own a property and not be at the mercy of a landlord. Still need a form of down payment and steady income though. Stuck between a rock and a hard place.
You are right Mr Squirrel. It is typical for a building owner to lease a building to someone to start a retail business, let's say selling ice cream. If it is successful, the lease will not be renewed and the owner then starts his own ice cream business in the same location. It is best to own your building if you want to operate a business.
AFAIK, Fran can live anywhere. Housing is cheap in upstate NY but you don't have all the "culture" or "entertainment" available to you that is in NYC or Philly.
Louis Rossmann in NYC has a thriving business, some of which is walk-in traffic. But Jessa Jones, who does similar work at iPad Rehab is in upstate NY, Honeoye Falls, NY (Population 2,674). Most of her business has to be mail in.
Good luck to Fran. I hope things work out for her.
Louis Rossmann just got it stuck to him by the owner of his building. There has been no gas heat in his building for 3 months. Management gave him 3 tiny electric heaters to use to heat his work area. Guess who is sitting in the cold? Guess who pays for the electricity!
Own your space!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o)
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Louis Rossmann just got it stuck to him by the owner of his building. There has been no gas heat in his building for 3 months. Management gave him 3 tiny electric heaters to use to heat his work area. Guess who is sitting in the cold? Guess who pays for the electricity!
Own your space!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfn0A3Wpa3o)
Or move to a place with decent laws protecting the renter. In many places that wouldn't fly. You'd simply hire a repair main and send the bill to the owner, or deduct it from the rent.
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This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
Can confirm.
Back in 2016 I had to move from my surprisingly decently priced 1br off Yesler because the owner sold the building. Now there's $500k condos in its place. 🙄
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I suspect she would be overjoyed to get out of the city a bit. She would be able to afford more space, have a garden, get some sunshine, not worry so much about parking, crime, etc.
Suburban areas outside of large cities may no longer be as hostile to non-traditional people as she might remember from her past, if she grew up in some non-urban area.
She should move because the longer she stays, the more time recovery (as far as her health) from the current situation could take, I suspect.
If I were her, though, I would save money- if she buys a place, she should only buy right after the next crash, which seem to occur almost like clockwork every ten years or so. And not get a variable rate mortgage, or ideally, any mortgage. There are communities where people can buy houses for very little. Big parts of the country cost very little to live in, unlike the Northeast or West Coast. Finding one that also is a positive place that wont be hostile to her being trans, seems like a big job but it would be made a lot simpler if she finds people who have successfully made similar transitions and gets advice from them. They must be out there somewhere.
Todays nice affordable small town often becomes tomorrows unaffordable small town so its a moving target.
At one point in my life I was considering moving to the area around Santa Fe, NM, in the US Southwest, because I really like the food, artistic, tech and social matrix, and awesome scenery and hiking around there. And at the time it was really cheap. Not any more! Now its just insanely expensive. People have to act on things like that when they can.
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You seem to make an awful lot of assumptions about that Fran would like and is looking for, cdev. I can only assume she's evaluated various options, including ones which mean moving around.
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She certainly would be an asset to any community I would want to live in.
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I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
A transgender person.
Never watched any of her content - But it she a he? :wtf:
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I think her voice is likely raspy right now because of the junk in the air she's likely inhaling. She needs to get out of there.
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Never watched any of her content - But it she a he? :wtf:
I think she was outed like 2008, or something. Maybe 2012? And she is now more or less open about it.
It was obvious to me within a few seconds of seeing her on video, but I've lived in LA. After your first surprise, you see it everywhere. But it's like when someone is obviously pregnant. You can't be 100% sure, so you just keep it to yourself. Plus there's nothing to gain from acknowledging it. If you're wrong, you pissed off a female. If you are right, you disappointed a transgender who thinks she is passing. Fran's style of hair and clothing for her age is as big a tipoff as her voice. 40 somethin' with pigtails and tight T shirts. Yeah, ok.
It surprises me that it surprises anyone. Female tech level nerd who isn't a total frump. When something's too good to be true... If she were a biological female, she would have been snapped up by the feminist SJW's ten years ago, made the face of some tech company or otherwise having her name and face plastered all over the internet. Ala Jerry Ellsworth or Meredith Perry. She would have some gig better than scraping up Pateron cash for a place to live.
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Lots of people don't wear age-indicative clothing. My 83-year old aunt comes to mind...if you were to see her from behind in any non-formal setting, she'd look like a 5' teenage girl in t-shirt and jeans with a ponytail down to her waist.
I'm sure Fran would be happy you think she is that young...you missed by a decade. But that might also indicate your observational skills aren't quite as sharp as you claim. Also remember the shirts Fran wears on-stream are being modeled. You can buy them.
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I'm sure Fran would be happy you think she is that young...you missed by a decade
Like with the pregnant woman. If you're not sure, you better guess low. :) See, I have no problem with trans persons. I treat her like a woman, still.
I get it. I still remember how hard it is to cross that line in your head the first time. When someone looks close enough and they present and act like a woman, you just give them the credit. Heck, my first big surprise was a 3rd date. :) My friends met her and didn't know, either. There are probably a lot of trans woman I wouldn't guess, but Fran isn't one of them.
I don't mean to reinforce stereotypes, but I didn't entertain for more than a second or two that she might be a biological woman. Living alone in a utilitarian warehouse surrounded by (expensive!) tools and junk instead of decorations and colors, but her own appearance being so... feminine and meticulous. I would probably be fooled if she dressed in a sack, didn't care about her makeup, and she ate her own earwax. That would be believable.
I don't mean any of this as a put down or insult. If anything, it would be incredible if there was a biological woman raised in the 70's that turned out like Fran. It would be also be nice if unicorns existed. You can mark me as a fan and supporter of Fran as a person. I'm subscribed. I like her. I just don't watch. Her electronics related content just doesn't interest me. The rants, neither. I like her YouTube analytics and conspiracy theories.
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Honestly, at this point, I think she should devote some quality time to asking other trans people about smaller towns.
I suggested that some time ago.
Too late now, she has a new lease signed.
Yeah, and she wouldn't have had to go far even. New Hope is right there. If ever there was a place friendly to all sorts of alternative lifestyles, that's certainly it. Although being such an artsy area it's also not a cheap place to live. Though I kind of think at one point she did mention that. Since most people here are NOT familiar with this area, Google it - New Hope is quite an eclectic place.
Water over the bridge, since she has a new place all lined up already and everything, so little point in dwelling on it now.
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I have no idea who this woman is and I did not know her channel but she has a broken voice which I find grating.
A transgender person.
Never watched any of her content - But it she a he? :wtf:
No. She is a trans woman, which is not a “he”.
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Why are some guys insistent on calling engineering women fake? And then expect women to be nice to them?
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I don't care what gender she is she does good videos and shares it.
I understand the majority of things she is explaining.
I have seen Thunderfoot's channel where he exposes some fake whatnots? but he argues it is not about their gender.
Edit: Actually just remembered I don't think they were actually engineers but more scientists of some sort.
I think Fran is much more than a real engineer and a machinist with all that machinery and she has a lot to show for it in the videos.
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I sense a shit storm brewing in this thread. Get your rain slickers. Tornado is approaching the treatment plant.
Alternative life styles like what kind of degenerate behavior are you thinking of? Stuck thinking about a 70s disco or something? You meant to say a location not occupied by phobic paranoid dickheads?
Thunderfoot is shit. I wanna see if he can open a can of beans. That guy fused with the armchair.
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FranLab FLOODED! :palm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU)
She seems to have three options:
- Just continue to take it up the arse
- Give up and walk out right now, get an AirBnB or something in the mean time and make do until the new space is ready
- Engage lawyers at 12 paces
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Lots of people don't wear age-indicative clothing. My 83-year old aunt comes to mind...if you were to see her from behind in any non-formal setting, she'd look like a 5' teenage girl in t-shirt and jeans with a ponytail down to her waist.
I'm sure Fran would be happy you think she is that young...you missed by a decade. But that might also indicate your observational skills aren't quite as sharp as you claim. Also remember the shirts Fran wears on-stream are being modeled. You can buy them.
I'm the odd one out in my building - shorts, silly t-shirt (today it's Thunderbirds), sandles. The rest look like corporate drones.
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I hope Fran has some form of business or renters contents insurance cover, that way it would be trivial to claim damages and let them fight for the money at no cost to her.
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FranLab FLOODED! :palm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1eSWY2HgYU)
She seems to have three options:
- Just continue to take it up the arse
- Give up and walk out right now, get an AirBnB or something in the mean time and make do until the new space is ready
- Engage lawyers at 12 paces
At this point you really have to wonder whether it's a somewhat coordinated campaign. Just be such a pain that people decide to pack up and leave.
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No. She is a trans woman, which is not a “he”.
She is, but you know what would be cool - just viewing Fran as Fran.
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Unfortunately I called this scenario a few months ago...
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
Exactly. The pressure to leave becomes unsurmountable, which may include recklessness (on purpose or not). I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
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The latest flooding video has been removed.
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Why?
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I'm the odd one out in my building - shorts, silly t-shirt (today it's Thunderbirds), sandles. The rest look like corporate drones.
I had to go into the city this morning (normally I'm just on the other side of Darling Harbour in Ultimo & Pyrmont), I think I saw more men in suits in that half hour than I do in an average month normally.
A good well-fitting suit can be quite comfortable, although a dark suit in the middle of the Australian summer? Not sure I could be paid enough for that one.
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They peed on her apartment and with the video taken down I expect they are going to compensate and fix the damage.
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Wow, that really sucks. I hope she has insurance and/or can sue or something.
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ugh.. this sounds like San Francisco's real estate wars, not Philly's.
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They peed on her apartment and with the video taken down I expect they are going to compensate and fix the damage.
The direct approach - I love it. It can work faster and with more positive results than any lawsuit. I hope that is what is happening. It may also motivate them to help her move.
Best of luck to her.
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Since the flooding video is gone, what did it say?
When I saw "flooded" I assumed it was perhaps related to a broken pipe from the epic cold wave, etc?
Especially since the building is in some intermediate state of being demolished?
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Iirc they had cut of pipes to the sprinkler system around the building (or something equivalent) and then someone turned on the valve again.
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Other than the bit at the beginning and the bit at the end, that video was mostly of the camera pointed at the room during cleanup. That included a somewhat heated conversation with one of the building representatives, followed by some conversations with a couple of the girls hired to help mop up the water.
And that is probably also why Fran pulled the video once she thought about it. She was probably OK on the video portion of it, but Pennsylvania generally requires both parties be aware of audio recording in non-public places, and I'm pretty sure the building guy wasn't aware the camera was on. (Surveillance laws vary significantly among the 50 states. In many states this would be legal with only one party consent.)
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I hope this situation leads to them simply saying "this is nuts, just give her some money to bugger off".
But given that any liability on this will likely not waste any of their time, and cost will be handled by insurance, I'm not holding my breath.
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Other than the bit at the beginning and the bit at the end, that video was mostly of the camera pointed at the room during cleanup. That included a somewhat heated conversation with one of the building representatives, followed by some conversations with a couple of the girls hired to help mop up the water.
And that is probably also why Fran pulled the video once she thought about it. She was probably OK on the video portion of it, but Pennsylvania generally requires both parties be aware of audio recording in non-public places, and I'm pretty sure the building guy wasn't aware the camera was on. (Surveillance laws vary significantly among the 50 states. In many states this would be legal with only one party consent.)
Even if legal, her lawyer (which she said she was going to engage) might have advised her to remove it.
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I hope this situation leads to them simply saying "this is nuts, just give her some money to bugger off".
But given that any liability on this will likely not waste any of their time, and cost will be handled by insurance, I'm not holding my breath.
You could call the work or safety inspection on them due to dangerous situations being created by the work they do. Contractor cowboys love a good OSHA inspection.
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Fran is looking for a job (request toward end of video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhtXP2Gn8U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhtXP2Gn8U)
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I have just seen that. I don't know if the changes have come in effect but if they start to dictate what they think I want to see not what I select (Interfere with my search and refuse content) despite me paying for Premium and cause the channels that I go there for to see to go out of business I think that may be a cut off point for me.
All colour tiles in stuck there in yer face and I could imagine that giving someone an epileptic fit.
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Here we go again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbLNfYe8ls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbLNfYe8ls)
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She has a six year lease.
:shrug: ball is in her court entirely unless the lease isn't worth the paper it was written on.
She gets to stay there as long as she wants (up to the lease expiry), and a reasonable chance that if she finds somewhere better she could probably get out early and maybe be paid to do so if the cards are played right.
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She has a six year lease.
In Australia you have to buy it with the lease, but in the US? :-//
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I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?
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I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?
But the new landlord can make your life hell if he wants you to leave: Start noisy and dirty renovations in the rest of the building, "accidentally" cut off or damage water, heating and electricity supply, etc.
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I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?
But the new landlord can make your life hell if he wants you to leave: Start noisy and dirty renovations in the rest of the building, "accidentally" cut off or damage water, heating and electricity supply, etc.
Which is precisely what happened to her with her previous lease. The building was practically being demolished around her, while she tried keeping the lab running and the dust and noise out.
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I don't know about Pennsylvania but it seems pretty likely the lease holds. Also after being given so much money I expect she had a lawyer look at the lease?
But the new landlord can make your life hell if he wants you to leave: Start noisy and dirty renovations in the rest of the building, "accidentally" cut off or damage water, heating and electricity supply, etc.
A good lease agreement should include a Quiet Enjoyment term, "noisy and dirty renovations" lasting long period of time, "accidentally" doing things on a recurring nature, that sort of thing would breach such a Quiet Enjoyment clause.
If a lease agreement didn't have such a clause, well, it wouldn't be a very good lease agreement!
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A good lease agreement should include a Quiet Enjoyment term, "noisy and dirty renovations" lasting long period of time, "accidentally" doing things on a recurring nature, that sort of thing would breach such a Quiet Enjoyment clause.
If a lease agreement didn't have such a clause, well, it wouldn't be a very good lease agreement!
Landlords almost always have the upper hand, especially in situations like Fran's, they would have absolutely zero incentive to allow a noise clause. And even if Fran had such a clause she would have to sue to enforce it at her own expense.
If the new buyer's goal is to renovate and flip, her best bet is they offer a few months rent to buy out her lease and move on.
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Here we go again!
That is just sad. How much bad luck can a person get? :o
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Landlords almost always have the upper hand, especially in situations like Fran's, they would have absolutely zero incentive to allow a noise clause. And even if Fran had such a clause she would have to sue to enforce it at her own expense.
If the new buyer's goal is to renovate and flip, her best bet is they offer a few months rent to buy out her lease and move on.
Buy out is likely what's going to happen. I remember she had to do a pretty substantial advance payment on the rent, too. But it's really tough on Fran. It was quite hard for her to get this place, being self-employed and such. It's quite a shame. Landlords and banks get to ask substantial securities while they really don't offer any safety against loosing the lease in return.
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I foresee a slew of folks pointing the fingers and saying "I told you so" on many angles and opinions... :(
I wonder: isn't there in the lease contract a break clause with a hefty penalty proportional to the length of time remaining on the contract? All things aside, that could easily offset the moving expenses - not the mental breakdown, though.
I don't know the rules around here in the US - it varies from state to state and maybe even from city to city.
Perhaps bring the new/prospective owner to the bargaining table would help?
I once had to deal with this and the owner sent a letter saying the property was being offered for sale, gave us priority to buy it or leave within 60 days. Obviously that, without cash, we were forced to leave but fortunately the law didn't match the owner's planned schedule for his own sale plans: we had 30 days to reply, then 90 days more to vacate the premises (this was in Brasil). Also, the lease contract had a break clause with a hefty penalty to cover the moving expenses. In the end we left the property within 60 days but we got lots of extra benefits from the owner for the expedited process, such as one month free and paid moving expenses (on top of the break penalty).
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Oh dear - I am so sorry to hear this Fran! I had to keep looking at the date to verify this is new bad news.
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Here we go again!
That is just sad. How much bad luck can a person get? :o
Never enough ;D or as we say: давай нахуй быстро, сука блядь! But seriously, if he's constantly in trouble to pay rent then maybe it's a sign that it's time for a career change? Software development is less demanding while offering a pay good enough for her to continue electroncis tinkering as a pure hobby.
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Here we go again!
That is just sad. How much bad luck can a person get? :o
Never enough ;D But seriously, if he's constantly in trouble to pay rent then maybe it's a sign that it's time for a career change? Software development is less demanding while offering a pay good enough for him to continue electroncis tinkering as a pure hobby.
Lack of awareness? Being able to pay the rent isn't the issue here at all!
Also, you're being pretty insensitive/insulting with your choice of gender pronouns, never mind the unsolicited advice you're offering.
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If the new buyer's goal is to renovate and flip, her best bet is they offer a few months rent to buy out her lease and move on.
I believe Fran has a long lease, like 6 years or something, maybe even with options to extend.
I don't know what building she is in, I assume it's a residential apartment type block, but it's likely a new owner won't be looking to buy and just sit on it for 6+ years and eek out the rent.
How common is property "flipping" in Philly?
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She has a six year lease.
:shrug: ball is in her court entirely unless the lease isn't worth the paper it was written on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjaLsBdKGrY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjaLsBdKGrY)
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I wonder if she should have banded together with some other makers to buy a shared shop where real estate is cheap, as Laura Kampf did.
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She refuses to move outside of the area she's in.
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In that case the situation is likely to repeat. What's that saying, something about insanity being trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome?
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She refuses to move outside of the area she's in.
And she fully and openly explained why she prefers to stay near friends in a community that embraces her.
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I don't care why. Sometimes your biggest problem is in the mirror, like it or not. Her friends should be pushing her to do what she NEEDS to do, not what she wants to do.
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In that case the situation is likely to repeat. What's that saying, something about insanity being trying the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome?
I wouldn't put it that way but there is some truth in it. When choosing an older (cheap) building in an upcoming neighbourhood the chances are high the building will be renovated / demolished some time soon. So the trick is to rent something which has been built/renovated recently. That is going to be more expensive; it could be Fran's wishes don't match her income so she may have to make a tough choice.
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I believe Fran has a long lease, like 6 years or something, maybe even with options to extend.
I don't know what building she is in, I assume it's a residential apartment type block, but it's likely a new owner won't be looking to buy and just sit on it for 6+ years and eek out the rent.
How common is property "flipping" in Philly?
Flipping property is common all over the US and the lease could have easily had provisions for such an event, many do.
In any case, if the new owner wishes her out, they can make her life miserable, fighting it will just prolong the misery.
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And she fully and openly explained why she prefers to stay near friends in a community that embraces her.
Are her friends also interested in better housing? Maybe a shared shop building would be the best solution, whether mostly common areas or partitioned.
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I don't care why. Sometimes your biggest problem is in the mirror, like it or not. Her friends should be pushing her to do what she NEEDS to do, not what she wants to do.
It‘s not about her friends’ needs, it’s about Fran’s own needs. And they matter, a lot. Trans women are being murdered left and right in USA right now. Choosing a place that is accepting is not a matter of convenience. It’s about personal safety. It’s about specialized healthcare. It’s about having (or being able to acquire) a support network. These are all things that any rational person would take heavily into consideration when choosing a place to live. As a gay man, I can assure you that they’re all things I think about a LOT when choosing where to live.
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Probably but such a choice should also include getting a job or keep trying to be self-employed. In the end it all boils down to having enough money to live the way you want. You have to find the lesser of all evils (a compromise).
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I don't care why. Sometimes your biggest problem is in the mirror, like it or not. Her friends should be pushing her to do what she NEEDS to do, not what she wants to do.
It‘s not about her friends’ needs, it’s about Fran’s own needs. And they matter, a lot. Trans women are being murdered left and right in USA right now. Choosing a place that is accepting is not a matter of convenience. It’s about personal safety. It’s about specialized healthcare. It’s about having (or being able to acquire) a support network. These are all things that any rational person would take heavily into consideration when choosing a place to live. As a gay man, I can assure you that they’re all things I think about a LOT when choosing where to live.
Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were. I don't care about Fran's friends either and I wasn't talking about their needs. I have a trans family member and more gay friends than I can count and talking honestly is always the best course of action. Not scaring people, not making them think they're going to be murdered but pushing them to have the best life they can even if you never get to see them again. This could be a really good example of WHY Fran should leave the area she's in if her friends are making her afraid to leave.
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Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)
Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016. >:(
I don't care about Fran's friends either and I wasn't talking about their needs. I have a trans family member and more gay friends than I can count and talking honestly is always the best course of action. Not scaring people, not making them think they're going to be murdered but pushing them to have the best life they can even if you never get to see them again. This could be a really good example of WHY Fran should leave the area she's in if her friends are making her afraid to leave.
Where did you get the idea that her friends are telling her to be afraid to leave? She never said that. AFAIK we haven’t been told anything that her friends might have said.
All we know about this (and I’m not even sure this is from the horse’s mouth, as I believe it’s more what we have speculated in this thread) is that she has a support network in Philly that she doesn’t want to leave, and IMHO that is a perfectly valid reason to choose to stay.
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Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)
Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016. >:(
getting totally off topics but , ...
from google:
"According to the Williams Institute, in 2016, approximately 0.6 percent of adults in the United States identified as transgender."
from the article you linked:
"In 2018, advocates tracked at least 26 deaths of transgender people in the U.S. due to fatal violence"
26*100/0.6 = 4333
from FBI:
"In 2017, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 17,284"
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Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)
Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016. >:(
I don't care about Fran's friends either and I wasn't talking about their needs. I have a trans family member and more gay friends than I can count and talking honestly is always the best course of action. Not scaring people, not making them think they're going to be murdered but pushing them to have the best life they can even if you never get to see them again. This could be a really good example of WHY Fran should leave the area she's in if her friends are making her afraid to leave.
Where did you get the idea that her friends are telling her to be afraid to leave? She never said that. AFAIK we haven’t been told anything that her friends might have said.
All we know about this (and I’m not even sure this is from the horse’s mouth, as I believe it’s more what we have speculated in this thread) is that she has a support network in Philly that she doesn’t want to leave, and IMHO that is a perfectly valid reason to choose to stay.
I assume her friends would be like you telling her trans people are being murdered all the time so she can't go anywhere. Feeding her fears and making her stay put. A support network can change, and maybe hers should.
Notice how most of the transgender deaths have been Black people? This has been a running trend for YEARS. Murder rates in black populations are high so the fact that they're transgender doesn't mean people are murdering transgenders at any specific rate, it's more likely being black and in a black community was a bigger part of it. No, it's also not racism. People generally murder people like themselves. The uptick(a couple more a year) is most likely attributable to the number of people identifying as transgender.
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Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016. >:(
It says 26 people in a whole year. I don't know how many trans people there are in the USA but given there are two of them just in my own little circle of friends they can't be *that* rare.
Is it a problem? Sure, it would be great if 0 people were being murdered, but I still wouldn't say it's "happening left and right". I think in most large cities a trans person is more likely to be killed by a drunk/texting driver or be the victim of a random crime than to be targeting specifically for being trans.
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26*100/0.6 = 4333
And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.
I'll give you a hint. Population of the USA is about 330 million. Some of those are children, so call it 250 million adults. 0.6% may be a small percentage, but it's still a lot of people.
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26*100/0.6 = 4333
And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.
I'll give you a hint. Population of the USA is about 330 million. Some of those are children, so call it 250 million adults. 0.6% may be a small percentage, but it's still a lot of people.
26 out of 0.6%, extrapolate to 100% you would expect 4333, the actual number is ~17000 iow the rate is less than 1/4 of the average for the population as a whole
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26*100/0.6 = 4333
And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.
This was a test on how to interpret statistics and you failed >:D
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Trans people are not being murdered left and right, not in America. Considering how few there are there probably wouldn't be any left if they were.
Yes, they are: https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019 (https://www.hrc.org/resources/violence-against-the-transgender-community-in-2019)
Given the relatively small number of trans people, that’s a shockingly high number, and that murder rate has been ongoing for a few years now, after taking a sharp upward turn right around 2016. >:(
Nope, sorry.
0.6% population is trans best figure I can find (I doubt it's that high, but it's an often quoted number), so that's 1.96M people US wide.
26 trans deaths US wide, or 0.0013%, assuming all are deaths because they were killed just for being trans (they aren't, but worse case).
Homocides in Philly alone were 351 for 2018, so right there you are vastly more likely to get killed randomly on the streets of Philly than killed for being trans.
You can't live your life in fear.
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As for moving somewhere else, I've tried my best to convince Fran to do that but she keeps assuring me it's not possible. I still don't believe it's not easily possible, but what do I know. I tried.
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She grew up in a time when misogyny was even more of a problem than it is now, maybe she's under the false impression that the area she's living in is less misogynistic than the places she lived in previously?
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Well you can lead a horse to water...
Eventually it sometimes becomes clear that a person is just going to keep making poor life choices and it gets harder to be sympathetic.
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Could part of the problem is that it's mostly guys giving the advice? Problem is that there aren't many well known women who have recently dealt with similar situations regarding housing - Laura Kampf and Naomi Wu are the only ones I can think of. But they both figured out that cheap real estate is the way to go to have the room to work and keep expenses down.
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I don't see how this is a gender issue, it's a common problem that anyone who is renting will need to figure out. If you live in an inexpensive older building in an area that is gentrifying there is a very good chance you'll soon be looking for a new place to live.
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they both figured out that cheap real estate is the way to go to have the room to work and keep expenses down.
Brilliant! ;)
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26*100/0.6 = 4333
And what number is 4333 supposed to be? You didn't say.
I'll give you a hint. Population of the USA is about 330 million. Some of those are children, so call it 250 million adults. 0.6% may be a small percentage, but it's still a lot of people.
26 out of 0.6%, extrapolate to 100% you would expect 4333, the actual number is ~17000 iow the rate is less than 1/4 of the average for the population as a whole
You STILL haven't said 4333 what, although now that you've explained it a bit more I get where you were going from context.
Anyone with a teacher hat on would probably take points off for not actually stating the units or the conclusion.
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:palm: :palm: :palm:
This should be obvious from the calculation itself.
Dividing the number of murders in a 0.6% subpopulation by 0.6% gives you the expected number of murders in the entire population, assuming the same density. Turns out, the actual number of murders in the rest of America is 4x higher.
Most likely "the activists" failed to count some deaths that happened or that SJW thinktank inflates their 0.6% statistic or both.
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Fran is officially looking for an "investor" to buy her lab:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBOg1SFVCY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBOg1SFVCY)
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I hope that's plan B while plan A is moving along.
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I hope that's plan B while plan A is moving along.
This is plan Alpha, preempting the need for a Plan-A
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Got it.
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I don't see how this is a gender issue, it's a common problem that anyone who is renting will need to figure out. If you live in an inexpensive older building in an area that is gentrifying there is a very good chance you'll soon be looking for a new place to live.
She refuses to move to an area with cheap real estate, claiming that as a woman, she wouldn't feel safe in those areas. (Yet she feels perfectly safe "grounding" outlets to the neutral wire, go figure...)
I wonder if she's aware that not too long ago, a little Chinese girl, faced with a similar problem, did just that - get a nice, big shop in a cheaper part of the city.
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I only hope she does not burn her credibility for new supporters and stretch the patience of her existing by having yet another unfallible plan that pretty much resembles the former one. The supporters may feel they are giving money to someone that is not making reasonable monetary decisions and the risk of a steep drop in income is quite real.
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Don't understand what the fuss is this all about ?
Isn't this exactly like ordinary problem that we're all facing in the world ?
Want to live "and work" in a nice cozy neighborhood but cheap and affordable ? This can't be right.
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I only hope she does not burn her credibility for new supporters and stretch the patience of her existing by having yet another unfallible plan that pretty much resembles the former one. The supporters may feel they are giving money to someone that is not making reasonable monetary decisions and the risk of a steep drop in income is quite real.
Agreed and to a fair degree she has lost me as a regular viewer while I am still a currently subscriber (along with 50 other channels :palm:). People airing their business issues publicly for sympathy or monetary gain for what most of us consider general life problems isn't conducive to viewing their other content. This doesn't mean don't do it but there is a downside risk to your bottom line when you make content for part of your living. Youtube if done as a business is just that and some last and some fail.
If the business model isn't sustainable in the current location/area she is comfortable with then time to move on either location or business wise.
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Personally, I would like to see her settled in Trump Tower, complete with living + her workshop space enough for all her stuffs, that will be perfect.
But alas, just don't have the spare money to help her, just supporting emotionally.
That place is pretty safe I guess, as US Secret Service personnel usually wondering around in vicinity.
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Don't understand what the fuss is this all about ?
Isn't this exactly like ordinary problem that we're all facing in the world ?
It would be if it's just were she lived, and her lab space was separate, but this involves her lab, so automatically becomes part of the audience care factor.
AFAIK she lives in the same space.
FYI, I found houses under $250k within 5km of Philly central, and big townhouses for $120k. I can see no sensible reason to pay $389k to be were she is (presumably in a nice "safe" area of Philly CBD).
I can understand liking a city, but surely looking 5-10km out isn't such a big deal?
She could probably raise $100k-$150k to buy a place outright or put a huge deposit on if it was done right, but it can't be like last time were is just sold effectively as a "stop gap" fund raising to keep her going another year.
And it is very difficult to get loans in her circumstance, but with say a 50% cash deposit I don't believe for a minute that it shouldn't be possible if you find the right broker.
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The last time this happened she went on for quite a bit about "gentrification" and how people purposely buy properties and whole neighborhoods for the purpose of improving them so that the lower income and "less desirable" people can no longer afford to live there.
I think that is assuming a lot about the situation that probably is not true. What is boils down to most of the time is one thing:
People with money want to invest their money to make more money. One way to do this is to buy a property and "add value" by improving it, then sell it for a large profit, or by rent it for a much higher rate than would have been possible before the improvements. That's all it is -- an investment.
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FYI, I found houses under $250k within 5km of Philly central, and big townhouses for $120k. I can see no sensible reason to pay $389k to be were she is (presumably in a nice "safe" area of Philly CBD).
I can understand liking a city, but surely looking 5-10km out isn't such a big deal?
This.
Sorry but I've just known too many people like that and used up most of my sympathy. What they are doing obviously is not sustainable so you offer them several viable solutions to their problems and they shoot them all down with various excuses and keep moaning about their situation and blaming external causes that they have no control over. Someone who lives and works in the same space has little reason to be stuck in a big city, and using safety as an excuse is just silly. Cities in general are statistically far less safe than the suburbs and either way there are only a few pockets scattered around the country that I would consider genuinely unsafe to live in.
I mean I get that she'd like to continue living in the area she's living in, ok well I'd like to live in a big house on a lake but the simple reality is that one has to live within their means. Fran has the fairly unique situation of being self employed in a field that relies only on having decent internet service and adequate space, there are countless affordable places all over the country that are arguably nicer and certainly much less stressful than moving from one dumpy building to the next in an area that is in the middle of gentrification. Count me as another who stopped watching the videos when they became soap operas that remind me of the circle of friends I had in my early 20s rather than interesting technical videos about random unusual stuff.
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The last time this happened she went on for quite a bit about "gentrification" and how people purposely buy properties and whole neighborhoods for the purpose of improving them so that the lower income and "less desirable" people can no longer afford to live there.
I think that is assuming a lot about the situation that probably is not true. What is boils down to most of the time is one thing:
People with money want to invest their money to make more money. One way to do this is to buy a property and "add value" by improving it, then sell it for a large profit, or by rent it for a much higher rate than would have been possible before the improvements. That's all it is -- an investment.
That is exactly it, it is nothing personal, it's strictly a business decision. If a property is available relatively cheaply in an area that is increasing or projected to increase in value, it's only natural that people are going to buy it, improve it and attempt to profit off it. I don't like gentrification either generally, I hardly recognize Seattle anymore but it isn't happening to get rid of undesirable people, it's happening because there is a lot of money to be made and by and large everyone likes making money. People love to ride their moral high horse until they themselves have an opportunity to profit.
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To me, she is just milking the audiences, purely opportunistic move, if it fails she has nothing to loose, and if succeed, yay .. hooray.
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Well, I guess that's that. She's completely given up on other options :(
If the place does get sold and "flipped" then she's probably screwed given the amount of grief it was last time.
[attachimg=1]
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She has a 6 year lease, unless that lease was written on the back of a piece of toilet paper by a drunk lawyer, then she should just quit worrying about things that might not, and probably won't, be a problem.
Just because the property is for sale, doesn't mean that things are going to change. Plenty of properties are bought and sold all the time with existing leases in place, it doesn't mean they are going to, or are able to, push you out, it means you get to change the bank account you are depositing your rent into.
I've never even met my commercial tenants, they were there when I acquired the property, and are still there today 6 years later, as long as the rent is in my account each month I'm a happy landlord.
Even if the property is sold to somebody who wants to redevelop, that doesn't mean they want or are even able to redevelop NOW, properties are commonly purchased and simply held for years, the new owners just sitting on the rental income until ducks are in a row, and that often means waiting for the existing leases to expire.
She has a lease, the purpose of a lease is to provide long term certainty, if it is not doing that, then that lease is terrible.
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Well, I guess that's that. She's completely given up on other options :(
If the place does get sold and "flipped" then she's probably screwed given the amount of grief it was last time.
Being honest, I think she correctly sees that a new crowdfunding will fail - after all, it would happen way too close to the previous one. IMHO people always deserve a second chance, but most feel they already gave that to her.
Regardless, what sleemanj mentioned is correct: would having a new owner automatically mean ejecting a steady source of income? Or is this a reasonable fear (but still only a fear) she has, due to her previous encounters with landlords?
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There's no issue unless
A) The sale happens
and
B) The new owner makes things hard to try and make her leave.
For all we know, she could get a really nice new owner.
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She has a 6 year lease, unless that lease was written on the back of a piece of toilet paper by a drunk lawyer, then she should just quit worrying about things that might not, and probably won't, be a problem.
She got royally screwed over last time, they literally demolished the building around her, so that would be the catalyst for the fear.
You could argue she shouldn't have told anyone (or even worried about it) until it was sold and the problems start.
But also it's not a bad strategy to float it out there like she did and see if someone guaranteed friendly wants to buy it.
I reckon paying some homeless people to conveniently hang around the building when the inspection times happen could extend the sale indefinitely ;D
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I reckon paying some homeless people to conveniently hang around the building when the inspection times happen could extend the sale indefinitely ;D
A couple of cases of cheap beer or wine should cover it. :popcorn:
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She got royally screwed over last time, they literally demolished the building around her, so that would be the catalyst for the fear.
You could argue she shouldn't have told anyone (or even worried about it) until it was sold and the problems start.
But also it's not a bad strategy to float it out there like she did and see if someone guaranteed friendly wants to buy it.
I reckon paying some homeless people to conveniently hang around the building when the inspection times happen could extend the sale indefinitely ;D
If all you have to do to make a healthy profit on real estate is to scare away a few hobos everyone would be jumping in.
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If all you have to do to make a healthy profit on real estate is to scare away a few hobos everyone would be jumping in.
I think you misread the proposal. Quite to the contrary, it suggests that all you have to do to scare away a real estate buyer is to invest in a few hobos. ;)
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I don't think it would make any difference. At least here in Seattle piles of trash, used syringes and feces scattered around ratty tents doesn't seem to slow anything down. When a building is being demolished crews sweep the camp which soon pops up somewhere else nearby. Unfortunately well meaning people trying to advocate for the homeless mostly end up enabling addicts to live like this more so than helping but that's another topic.
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Like I commented on her video: Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships. You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage. Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.
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Cities in general are statistically far less safe than the suburbs and either way there are only a few pockets scattered around the country that I would consider genuinely unsafe to live in.
Not only this, but Philly has to be one of the worst cities for any kind of woman to live in. The street people in Philly are the most aggressive and privileged I have ever encountered. I have seen them follow a 70 yr old lady down the street, within arms reach and yelling so loud you can hear the harrassment from down the block, word for word. If they don't get your money, that won't stop them from marking "their territory" and making you feel unwelcome. And this isn't in the ghetto. It's everywhere there are restaurants and shops and businesses, and especially in the touristy areas.
I can't think of a worst place, other than small pockets of larger cities which are easily avoided and best forgotten. Baltimore might be up there, too, but Philly sure leaves an impression. I have no doubt Fran has friend that make her feel safe, there. But in 99.9% of the country, she wouldn't feel as unsafe to begin with, I imagine.
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Like I commented on her video: Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships. You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage. Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.
For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.
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Like I commented on her video: Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships. You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage. Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.
Sole proprietors worldwide can generally get a loan if they have a good track record and figures to back them. A good mate of mine recently got a 90% loan for a house and has had a sole trading business for 7-8 years as an example but his accountant is a good one and the business has been doing well.
If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
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Like I commented on her video: Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships. You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage. Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.
For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.
That's not Carl's point. Fran has made the assertion that she flat out does not qualify for a home loan because she is a sole proprietor.
I agree with Carl, I can't see how that fact alone can be possibly true. There must be a way to get a loan given enough deposit and income.
Fran is not looking for a commercial business space, or a business loan, she's looking for essentially a home loan (or large apartment space) for a space she can live in. The fact that she operates a sole proprietorship from the space is inconsequential.
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If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?
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If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
Even if you have plenty of income.
The banks do not like self employed people who get income in tiny amounts but from many sources. Even if they have plenty of total income to service the loan.
They prefer a self employed person who gets paid all their money from doing one or two tasks.
This makes no sense to me, but that's the way they think.
Maybe they are required to investigate and document all the sources of income and can't be bothered looking over 100 separate sources.
Or maybe they don't like 100 little sources coming and going from week to week.
Yeah, it's probably less about the person proving they had plenty of income in the past, and more about the bank knowing their sources of income are static and never changing.
i dunno.
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Like I commented on her video: Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships. You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage. Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.
For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.
You do have a point there but it doesn't totally disprove my point. :)
Probably a lot of those sole proprietorships are like you mention, a kid shoveling snow that has support of his parents for a place to live. Or people that run a side business from home but have a "real" job or a spouse with a "real" job that qualifies them for a mortgage on the home they live in.
But Fran was saying that if you are a sole proprietor you can't get any sort of mortgage, even for the home that you are going to put that desk and computer in to run your home based business, which is not true. A significant portion of those sole proprietors are people that have no other income to qualify for a mortgage.
The problem is not being a sole proprietor. Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.
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The problem is not being a sole proprietor. Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.
Maybe not reliable, as you can prove reliability by looking at past history.
But definitely regular and consistent is the key issue.
If money comes in randomly and from random sources they wont touch you.
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When the bank loans you the money, they own the property. 50% down is a no brainer. Default on payment, they get the property, they keep your 50% down. And they have to pay only for evicting you and cleaning up the property.
Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.
If she can't get a mortgage with 50% down, I would bet dollars to donuts it is because she has bad personal credit and/or the property is way overpriced to begin with. I don't care if she's a sole proprietor. I live in the US, and I'm a sole proprietor. IME, the bank mainly cares to see 3 things. That your last two months of deposits checks out with the annual income you are claiming, your personal credit history, and your asset to debt ratio, e.g. bank accounts and other loans and credit card balances.
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If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?
I was thinking the exact same thing. You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half. But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
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If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?
I was thinking the exact same thing. You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half. But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
50% of what and if that source of lump money is not your own then that is also a consideration to loan the $. That then Guarantor needs to be part of the loan agreement in most/all cases.
I have been a sole trader and or an unemployable bum for about 20 years so I have had plenty of exposure to banks and how they treat sole traders.
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If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?
You would think so, wouldn't you?
The problem in the US is that a lot of banks are either extremely risk-averse or are large enough to not care.
If you have a perfect credit score, a "normal" easy-to-sell property, a large down payment, and a lot of wage (not self-employed) income, then things are fairly easy. The more ways you differ from this the fewer options you have.
One thing most people don't realize is that a very large percentage of loans (almost all?) are done through an automatic underwriting package which uses verifiable information to come up with an approve/deny based on weighted factors. There are still manual underwriters out there but they're few and far between. The automatic underwriters all seem to have 'hard qualification' issues.
For instance:
1) I've attempted to get a loan on a property which had a residence on just over 20 acres (like 20.05). A lot of lenders won't write on anything over 20 acres. Even if it was 20.05.
2) A lot of lenders won't write to anyone who doesn't have wage income (as opposed to self-employed income).
3) A lot of lenders won't write to anyone who has a business on the property. For example FHA (government guaranteed) loans don't permit loans on property with over 25% of the square footage being dedicated to business or non-residential use.
4) A lot of lenders won't write for anything slightly unique. I once owned and lived in an old church which had been converted to a residence. Because it looked like a church, most lenders wouldn't even consider a loan. Add in the fact that I've pretty much always been self-employed, and financing it and refinancing it was typically a year-long process due to repeated rejections from different lending companies, usually due to the nature of the property, even though there are several properties like this in the neighborhood and they have historically sold very quickly - assuming a buyer can find financing.
5) If you have a business on the property, many home insurance companies won't write an insurance policy. All lenders require you to have an insurance policy in place.
6) If you're self-employed, lenders are VERY VERY fussy about proving consistent income which meets their thresholds and rules. Anything perceived as not long-term is often a disqualification.
Combine more than one of the factors above (and probably others), and you'll find that getting loan is very difficult. Especially if you don't have a perfect credit score.
My experience has been that down payment actually makes little difference to the lenders. All they seem to care about is that you have either 20% to not have to pay extra for mortgage insurance, or if you qualify, even less is accepted but with mortgage insurance being charged every month.
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The problem is not being a sole proprietor. Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.
And not having found the right broker who can help. There are almost 5000 banks in the US, and this is a list of banks in Pennsylvania:
https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm (https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm)
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If you are struggling or marginal and a sole proprietor you won't as for a start any sensible bank puts you in a higher risk category. This is an example of where Fran's recent content would make that all the harder.
But what if you had say a 50% deposit? Wouldn't that be a slam dunk for any sensible bank?
I was thinking the exact same thing. You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half. But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
Err, that's the point.
The bank owns your property, let's say valued at $200k contract price.
You put down 50% deposit and borrow $100k to buy the place.
You can't make the repayments, the bank can sell the property easily for $100k to recover their costs. Let's say $120k to include any foreclosure costs or whatever.
It's almost zero risk, unless you were completely hopeless at valuing properties, or the value more than halves.
Damn, I'll take that deal every day of the week, seriously, I'll go into the lending business. I'm not kidding. Anyone who wants to give me the title deed to a $200k housing asset to borrow $100k, I'll loan you the $100k no questions asked.
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I was thinking the exact same thing. You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half. But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
But...
This person can take out a second mortgage with another lender, taking loans/credit on that original 50% down, then fuck off into overspending with no way to repay any of it. The second lender may be able to put a lien against the property.
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I was thinking the exact same thing. You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half. But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
But...
This person can take out a second mortgage, taking loans/credit on that original 50% down, then fuck off into overspending with no plan to repay any of it.
That is largely irrelevant to the first mortgage holder, since they get paid before the second mortgage holder gets any. That's on whoever gave/authorized the second mortgage.
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I have been a sole trader and or an unemployable bum for about 20 years so I have had plenty of exposure to banks and how they treat sole traders.
In that case you probably have a better view of the situation than I do. I just have a problem with her attitude that this is an unsolvable problem.
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I actually had a friend a couple years ago who bought a house and his situation wasn't TOO much different. He made his money working on cars for people. He didn't have a proper business set up but he had a shop and regular customers. When he went to buy his house I helped him with that. The bank basically needed a record of money coming in and money going out going back 2 years. Wasn't quite as simple in the moment with lots of back and forth but that's about what it came down to. He got an FHA loan and only put down 3.5% so I really doubt she can't get a loan.
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I was thinking the exact same thing. You would think putting 50% down would pretty much guarantee the loan as you can use that 50% as collateral against the other half. But maybe the banks still worry about how you are going to make payments on the other half.
But...
This person can take out a second mortgage with another lender, taking loans/credit on that original 50% down, then fuck off into overspending with no way to repay any of it. The second lender may be able to put a lien against the property.
The first lender physically holds the deed, they own it.
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The problem is not being a sole proprietor. Probably the problem is not having a regular consistent and reliable stream of income from that business.
And not having found the right broker who can help. There are almost 5000 banks in the US, and this is a list of banks in Pennsylvania:
https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm (https://www.usbanklocations.com/pennsylvania-bank-list.htm)
I agree with finding the correct broker helps. I finally found a local bank which makes a lot of their money with being a mortgage broker, which has helped greatly with my most recent loans. They only make money if they can place a note with someone, so they have a LOT of options which they can sell the mortgage to once originated.
Which brings up another point - although there are 5000 banks in the US, very few actually carry their own paper. Instead, the vast majority of them rely on being able to sell the note to someone else, which is why once you get outside "normal" your options shrink. In the US, 90% of Mortages are either held or insured by one of the federal loan programs (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae), so the loans which are to be sold to those programs have to meet their borrowing requirements. What you find as a result is that a large portion of lenders have a very similar set of lending requirements. So much so that I can definitely understand why someone who is outside these requirements would feel like they can't get a loan at all.
Which comes back to the whole, yes, finding the right mortgage broker is important once you step outside the norms.
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Like I commented on her video: Google says 70% of all businesses in the US are sole proprietorships. You can't tell me that none of these business owners qualify for or have any sort of mortgage. Being a sole proprietor is not an automatic disqualification.
For comparison, that's a meaningless stat unless you quantify how many of those actually need to rent a large space in a major metro area similar to Philadelphia. Sole proprietorship is basically everyone who works for themselves, without using separating business and personal assets and liabilities. The bulk of that 70% are probably home-based and consist of a desk, a computer, and maybe some equipment in the garage or business vehicle. Heck, if the neighborhood kid shovels snow for pizza money every year, even that is a sole proprietorship. When I was doing consulting work, I was a sole proprietorship....other than a drawer full of records, I didn't need to buy any business assets at all.
That's not Carl's point. Fran has made the assertion that she flat out does not qualify for a home loan because she is a sole proprietor.
I agree with Carl, I can't see how that fact alone can be possibly true. There must be a way to get a loan given enough deposit and income.
Fran is not looking for a commercial business space, or a business loan, she's looking for essentially a home loan (or large apartment space) for a space she can live in. The fact that she operates a sole proprietorship from the space is inconsequential.
My mom is a sole proprietor and has a mortgage, it was not easy for her to get qualified but she did. That is the only data point I have, but it is proof enough that it is possible.
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Even if you have plenty of income.
The banks do not like self employed people who get income in tiny amounts but from many sources. Even if they have plenty of total income to service the loan.
They prefer a self employed person who gets paid all their money from doing one or two tasks.
This makes no sense to me, but that's the way they think.
Maybe they are required to investigate and document all the sources of income and can't be bothered looking over 100 separate sources.
Or maybe they don't like 100 little sources coming and going from week to week.
Yeah, it's probably less about the person proving they had plenty of income in the past, and more about the bank knowing their sources of income are static and never changing.
i dunno.
This is one reason many managing directors in the UK struggle to get mortgages, even when running £1m+ turnover businesses.
You will want to pay yourself a salary. My boss had the same issue. No one would lend him £300k to buy a house, despite business turnover being 10x that, because he was paying himself in dividends only.
He had to draw down a salary, take the mortgage, and then switch back to dividends. Cost him a bit more in tax, but made the mortgage achievable.
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When the bank loans you the money, they own the property. 50% down is a no brainer. Default on payment, they get the property, they keep your 50% down. And they have to pay only for evicting you and cleaning up the property.
This shows no understanding of how banks operate legally. That is not the way things work.
In any case, most banks have no interest in executing mortgages, their interest is in having performing loans which pay their interest regularly. If the bank does not want to foreclose it does not matter if you put 90% down, they are not interested. They want to see ability to pay and meet your obligations.
Go to your local grocery store and tell them you want to leave your gold watch as collateral and come back to pay next week. They can't lose. Still, they will not accept because that is not the business they want to do. Maybe you can pawn the watch elsewhere but not at the grocery store even they might win a watch in exchange for a can of beans.
Most banks are not interested in foreclosures. It is not the business they are looking for and they try to avoid it. Arguing that they are protected is useless because it is not a business they are interested in. They will tell you to go find another lender who might be interested.
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It's almost zero risk, unless you were completely hopeless at valuing properties, or the value more than halves.
Damn, I'll take that deal every day of the week, seriously, I'll go into the lending business. I'm not kidding. Anyone who wants to give me the title deed to a $200k housing asset to borrow $100k, I'll loan you the $100k no questions asked.
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
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I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
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It's almost zero risk, unless you were completely hopeless at valuing properties, or the value more than halves.
Damn, I'll take that deal every day of the week, seriously, I'll go into the lending business. I'm not kidding. Anyone who wants to give me the title deed to a $200k housing asset to borrow $100k, I'll loan you the $100k no questions asked.
I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
Nope, I'd make a killing.
If I can get a place for half the current market rate then I can make a killing reselling that. Like I said, unless you are an absolute fool and don't know the market and prices.
I'd be begging people to default on their loan instead of paying the pathetically low interest rate.
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When the bank loans you the money, they own the property. 50% down is a no brainer. Default on payment, they get the property, they keep your 50% down. And they have to pay only for evicting you and cleaning up the property.
This shows no understanding of how banks operate legally. That is not the way things work.
Of course it is, it's called foreclosure, that's why the bank keeps the legal deed to your property, they own it until you pay it off.
They can and do sell your property if you fail to repay the loan. They may not want to do that, but it happens all the time. New Jersy for example has the highest rate, one in every 600 or so.
https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/do-you-live-in-one-of-the-10-states-with-the-highest-foreclosure-rates-in-the-us/ (https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/do-you-live-in-one-of-the-10-states-with-the-highest-foreclosure-rates-in-the-us/)
In any case, most banks have no interest in executing mortgages, their interest is in having performing loans which pay their interest regularly. If the bank does not want to foreclose it does not matter if you put 90% down, they are not interested. They want to see ability to pay and meet your obligations.
Of course that is their business, but they hold the deed to the property, they own it.
What that means is that all things being equal, any bank would rather give a $500k loan on $1M property deed than a $900k loan on that same property. i.e. that $500k loan is a vastly lower risk than the $900k loan.
Most banks are not interested in foreclosures. It is not the business they are looking for and they try to avoid it. Arguing that they are protected is useless because it is not a business they are interested in. They will tell you to go find another lender who might be interested.
Sure, but that's a different argument entirely. Banks look very favorably on large deposit loans for a reason, they are lower risk.
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I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
Here in Australia it's a national sport. We have dozens of TV reality shows devoted to it.
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Even if you have plenty of income.
The banks do not like self employed people who get income in tiny amounts but from many sources. Even if they have plenty of total income to service the loan.
They prefer a self employed person who gets paid all their money from doing one or two tasks.
This makes no sense to me, but that's the way they think.
Maybe they are required to investigate and document all the sources of income and can't be bothered looking over 100 separate sources.
Or maybe they don't like 100 little sources coming and going from week to week.
Yeah, it's probably less about the person proving they had plenty of income in the past, and more about the bank knowing their sources of income are static and never changing.
i dunno.
This is one reason many managing directors in the UK struggle to get mortgages, even when running £1m+ turnover businesses.
You will want to pay yourself a salary.
Salary makes no difference in Australia, if you have a controlling interest director position in a company you are deemed to be self employed, and a majority of bank will not touch you.
That's the reason I took the money out of my own home loan in order to buy my lab, I became my own bank. And it's why I've never paid off my house, I use it as a line of credit.
Ironically, most banks are happy to take your existing home and give you 80% of the value as a line of credit, but want to buy the same value home with a 20% deposit - nope.
I went through this the other year for an investment property, but luckily Mrs EEVblog has a regular job which made it more manageable. Still we had to go through a broker to find us a bank willing to give us a 2nd look because I'm "self employed".
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Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
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So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
Finaly a legit reason to save some money for a vacation to aussieland! :D
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Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
Make sure the last part is true. I know of a few countries where it isn't.
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So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
Finaly a legit reason to save some money for a vacation to aussieland! :D
I could rent out a room on AirBnB ;D
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Jaws: "I think you'll need a bigger barbie.."
The only downside I can think of if moving the lab to a house, which btw is a great long term move :-+
is you will lose Dumpster Diving privileges/access to corporate tosses :(
or, you could go nuts now/hoard overdrive and stock up with 12 months worth and wack it in storage :)
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Most banks are not interested in foreclosures. It is not the business they are looking for and they try to avoid it. Arguing that they are protected is useless because it is not a business they are interested in. They will tell you to go find another lender who might be interested.
Sure, but that's a different argument entirely.
It's not a different argument. It's the argument I am making. It is my entire and sole argument.
If a bank is looking to sell loans that will perform and is trying to avoid loans that will result in foreclosure telling them they are protected in the case of a foreclosure is useless because that is what they are trying to avoid.
If the applicant's profile looks like they might default the bank decides it is not interested regardless of the applicant's ability to put down a substantial percentage. Another bank might be interested but many are not. Really, it's not difficult to understand.
What I don't understand is why some people feel they are entitled to tell a bank or other business how they should manage their business. You are entitled to do business with whoever you want on whatever terms you want and the rest of the world is entitled to the same privilege.
Some years ago a friend of mine got very upset when his bank cancelled his credit card. He took it very personally and was quite upset because he had perfect credit and payment record. I offered to go to the bank with him and the bank officer explained it had nothing to do with him personally; it was just that the bank needed to reduce certain activities and exposures, etc. But my friend just couldn't understand why they would cancel HIS credit card when he had a perfect record.
It serves no purpose to argue why a bank should lend you money. They have their policies and business model. If you don't like their services better try to find some other bank you like better.
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is you will lose Dumpster Diving privileges/access to corporate tosses :(
Nope, I'm still an owner and have the key ;D
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I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
But Dave isn't talking about flipping but lending people the money and then getting the house 'cheap' when they can't afford it. My point is that Dave is underestimating of all the hidden costs before you can sell a home for a profit. The 'flippers' have to be creative to make a profit and usually they won't touch a home which is fubar. If you are the lender you have to sell whatever junk gets thrown in your lap.
I've seen how bad this can get first hand when they foreclosed the neighbours a few houses away. First they had to haul away 3 large dumpsters of junk, then 4 weeks of repairing, cleaning and painting including filling in the DIY basement which wasn't built according to code. And these are homes build from bricks and concrete (including pilings) so wood rot, foundation problems and termites aren't an issue.
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The first lender physically holds the deed, they own it.
If I may digress on this topic for a moment, the deed and who holds it are pretty much a "bill of goods", quite literally.
The concept of mortgage, that is a loan secured by real estate, exists pretty much in every western nation I know. But the old English system of deeds and chain of title is being replaced gradually by a system of registry. In nations like France and Spain there never really was a deed and chain of title system and it always was a registry system. Whoever appears in the registry as the owner is the owner and all interests, liens, etc. need to be registered to be enforceable.
Australia, with Torrens, was one of the first Anglo countries to switch to a registry system.
In a registry system the registered owner of record is the owner for legal purposes. A lien or mortgage holder will have that interest recorded but they are not the owner. Rights on real property take precedence by date of recordation, not by date of creation.
What matters with a deed is that it is recorded. After that you can frame it and hang it in your bathroom if you like.
https://epilawg.com/2012/08/torrens-vs-abstract-property-whats-the-difference/ (https://epilawg.com/2012/08/torrens-vs-abstract-property-whats-the-difference/)
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/planning-and-property/certificates-of-title/torrens-titles (https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/planning-and-property/certificates-of-title/torrens-titles)
https://www.reisa.com.au/publicinfo/general-tips-and-traps/torrens-title-explained (https://www.reisa.com.au/publicinfo/general-tips-and-traps/torrens-title-explained)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrens_title (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrens_title)
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is you will lose Dumpster Diving privileges/access to corporate tosses :(
Nope, I'm still an owner and have the key ;D
Umm, didn't you mention "12 months left on the current lease"?
Are you owning or renting the current lab? (Just curious...)
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I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
But Dave isn't talking about flipping but lending people the money and then getting the house 'cheap' when they can't afford it. My point is that Dave is underestimating of all the hidden costs before you can sell a home for a profit.
My entire point is that the bigger your deposit the more likely you are to find a willing lender. I've experienced this first hand several times.
If Fran went to a broker with say $100k cash and said she wanted to buy a $200k property, that broker has more to work with than if she rocks up with only $20k.
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Umm, didn't you mention "12 months left on the current lease"?
Are you owning or renting the current lab? (Just curious...)
I own my old lab. It's currently rented to a bunch of lawyers I found via Gumtree.
The new lab is rented, both are in the same complex and share the same garbage room.
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Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
Or you could stumble across a property the family actually likes for living in, and turn your old house into a lab.
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Or you could stumble across a property the family actually likes for living in, and turn your old house into a lab.
Or get a house on enough property to build a lab out back, or a bigger house with a full basement and build it down there. Because why commute somewhere when you can have your office right in your own back yard?
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Or get a house on enough property to build a lab out back, or a bigger house with a full basement and build it down there. Because why commute somewhere when you can have your office right in your own back yard?
I bought a rental property two years ago with a 1100sq ft house and a 3000sq ft shop with office for $95K on 3 acres.
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Speaking of labs, time flies and I'm starting to think about a new lab. Soon it'll be 12 months months left on the current lease, and it doesn't make sense to continue leasing with interest rates so low now.
Let's say the next 10 years, at (currently) $40k a year (lease + outgoings), that's $400k.
A similar size commercial business park office is $800k-$1M depending on quality and location, and I think the prices have gone crazy.
I can actually buy a house nearby on it's own block of land for that, maybe even under $800k for a small run down place.
But let's say $800k, at 3.8% that's only $30,400 a year in interest, the same as I'm paying in rent now, but there are no commercial outgoings that add another $10k. Just council rates and odds and ends.
So over the next 10 years I can either be $400k in the hole, or have that $400k going into a property I own, no brainer.
So the new EEVblog lab might be an entire house, I'll invite everyone around for a barbie ;D
No law against not living in a house and just using it as a private business were no one comes and goes except the courier guy.
If you can get the loan approved and the interest rate fixed for the entire period it seems like a good deal. Renting is expensive. I'd be wary of zoning laws though and perhaps you may change your mind and do a higher volumes. Neighbours may start to complain due to traffic. Also see if big trucks have easy access.
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I bought a house with virtually no money on the bank - but a steady income.
Loaned 110% of the value. Interest about 6% (early 90s), 20 years. The amount I had to pay every month was comparable to renting a place.
The house was under hypotec (deed? I don't know the English term) by the bank until the very last day of the mortgage - meaning they could sell it if I failed two payments, even if in the 20st year when I virtually payd everything back.
During the years, I used that hypotec to get new loans from the same bank. It means that you can take out money at the same interest rate. The payments go up but the duration stays the same.
But a payment that hurt in the early 90s (approx. 600 euro) was almost neglectable in the 2000s, when I worked longer and both my partner and I earned more.
So as long as the interest rate on my house was lower than the going rate for a financial loan, I've been using it as a vehicle to loan and pay off money when it made sense.
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I bought a house with virtually no money on the bank - but a steady income.
Loaned 110% of the value. Interest about 6% (early 90s), 20 years. The amount I had to pay every month was comparable to renting a place.
The house was under hypotec (deed? I don't know the English term) by the bank until the very last day of the mortgage - meaning they could sell it if I failed two payments, even if in the 20st year when I virtually payd everything back.
During the years, I used that hypotec to get new loans from the same bank. It means that you can take out money at the same interest rate. The payments go up but the duration stays the same.
But a payment that hurt in the early 90s (approx. 600 euro) was almost neglectable in the 2000s, when I worked longer and both my partner and I earned more.
So as long as the interest rate on my house was lower than the going rate for a financial loan, I've been using it as a vehicle to loan and pay off money when it made sense.
at the moment the interest on a mortgage is silly low, here you can get 15 years fixed 0.00% or 30 years fixed 0.50% so it is much cheaper than renting, but since the last financial crisis you can't borrow more than ~4x your annual income
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In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
The reason the bank wants a big down payment isn't so they get more money in a foreclosure and sale, it is to ensure that if they have to go through that process that will be able to sell the property quickly and for enough money to cover the debt. They also don't want to go through this process, so they want the borrower to be incentivized to make their payments (or sell the property themselves to pay off the debt).
The primary issue with self-employed borrowers is the bank needs to see consistent income for many months (typically 2 years). There has to be some assurance that the borrower will still be able to make the payments for the next 3-4 years (at which point, enough equity has been built up to mitigate most of the risk). Many sole proprietors tend to co-mingle their personal and business accounts (or simply don't keep business accounting records), or try to structure their income in such a way as to show little to no income (by writing off everything, typically for tax purposes). Unfortunately, you can't tell the IRS that you only make $10,000/yr and then try to tell a bank that you really make $100,000/yr. You also can't say I make $10,000/mo, if you can't demonstrate (with documentary evidence) that you actually receive (personally, as payroll income or cash taken out of the business, properly documented and taxed) this amount every month from a source that will continue at that rate indefinitely.
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The house was under hypotec (deed? I don't know the English term) by the bank until the very last day of the mortgage
German Hypothek is mortgage. A loan secured by real property.
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The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
I think in reality it's the same. I used the word deed but lien may be the correct English term.
The bank does not own the property, but they can force a sale if you fail to pay back. Once the bidded price is higher then your outstanding costs and additional legal fees and interests read:never), you get the rest of the mony.
So the bank can not make a gain. It stops when they have all their losses and costs back.
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In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.
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The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
I think in reality it's the same. I used the word deed but lien may be the correct English term.
The bank does not own the property, but they can force a sale if you fail to pay back. Once the bidded price is higher then your outstanding costs and additional legal fees and interests read:never), you get the rest of the mony.
So the bank can not make a gain. It stops when they have all their losses and costs back.
That could depend on local law.
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Is it different in The Netherlands when you fail to pay back a mortgage?
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I think in reality it's the same. I used the word deed but lien may be the correct English term.
Not quite. The deed is the legal statement of ownership - that is typically in the name of the buyer. A lien is an "encumbrance" on the property. Basically, it prevents the owner from selling the property until the lien is removed. Even a carpenter remodeling a kitchen can get a lien on the property if the work isn't paid for.
More dry technical details:
Note that some states allow the use of a "Deed of Trust" instead of a mortgage. This then effectively "splits" the ownership, where the buyer holds the "equitable title" and the lender holds the "legal title".
The lien doesn't give the bank the right to sell the property. First, they must go through the courts to take ownership of the property through a foreclosure - this typically must be approved by a judge (depending on state law) and can be contested. Only after the foreclosure is complete, does the bank own the property and can proceed to sell it. Some banks will simply "sit" on a house if the market is down (although the ongoing maintenance costs to the bank add up). During the U.S. housing crisis, some banks were even letting people live in their foreclosed property for free as long as they maintained it, likewise many foreclosures were delayed indefinitely because the value of the house was below the amount due, so there was no benefit for the bank to take possession. It is also possible for the homeowner to purchase the property back from the bank after foreclosure, possibly for less than the amount owed (by being the high bidder at a real estate auction).
Some states (including California and Texas) allow for "power of sale" clauses which, upon default, permit the lender to sell the property even though they don't own it. They are essentially forcing the sale on behalf of the owner to satisfy the lien(s).
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Not quite. The deed is the legal statement of ownership - that is typically in the name of the buyer. A lien is an "encumbrance" on the property. Basically, it prevents the owner from selling the property until the lien is removed.
Yes, that Lien is what I wanted to say. I have the deed, the bank has the lien.
Not a native English speaker.
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Is it different in The Netherlands when you fail to pay back a mortgage?
No but it may be different in the US and other countries based on the 'English' law system.
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The reason the bank wants a big down payment isn't so they get more money in a foreclosure and sale, it is to ensure that if they have to go through that process that will be able to sell the property quickly and for enough money to cover the debt. They also don't want to go through this process, so they want the borrower to be incentivized to make their payments (or sell the property themselves to pay off the debt).
Correct. I was not suggesting otherwise, the banks aren't in the foreclosure business, but it's a thing they have to deal with and factor in.
Bigger deposit = lower risk = better chance of getting a loan. It's a part of their risk formula.
The primary issue with self-employed borrowers is the bank needs to see consistent income for many months (typically 2 years). There has to be some assurance that the borrower will still be able to make the payments for the next 3-4 years (at which point, enough equity has been built up to mitigate most of the risk). Many sole proprietors tend to co-mingle their personal and business accounts (or simply don't keep business accounting records), or try to structure their income in such a way as to show little to no income (by writing off everything, typically for tax purposes). Unfortunately, you can't tell the IRS that you only make $10,000/yr and then try to tell a bank that you really make $100,000/yr. You also can't say I make $10,000/mo, if you can't demonstrate (with documentary evidence) that you actually receive (personally, as payroll income or cash taken out of the business, properly documented and taxed) this amount every month from a source that will continue at that rate indefinitely.
This is Fran's big problem, but I think she can work her way out of this issue.
Incorporate a company, get seriously back into Frantone where she has brand recognition, and make that the mainstay income source. FranLab income isn't going to cut it.
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In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.
Here legally the bank does not have to go through the court system to repossess and sell your house. But for home owners they usually do that so that it gives a sheriff the power to come around and legally change the locks and physically evict you. They don't legally have to though, they can in theory just sell the house and have the new owner deal with throwing you out.
If the house is rented then the bank can take the repayments without a court order. Of course you can contest this in court and make them go through that process if you have the money to do that. But if you had that money you would have just repayed the loan.
Basically, the bank controls title on your home and can legally operate on the title without court order. In theory they could even legally do that whilst you are still repaying the loan, and it would be up to you to then sue them for breach of contract or some such.
https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-resources/mortgage-stress-handbook/3.-can-the-lender-take-my-house-what-is-the-process (https://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-resources/mortgage-stress-handbook/3.-can-the-lender-take-my-house-what-is-the-process)
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In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.
Ultimately I would say it doesn't really matter to the person buying the house. You get approved for a mortgage, you keep up on your payments and eventually own the property outright. If you fall far enough behind on the payments your loan can get foreclosed and the property is taken away, eventually to be sold.
The area where a lot of people could benefit is understanding the advantages of paying off excess principal faster than required. As soon as I earned enough to afford it I have paid a couple hundred bucks extra each month toward the principal and ultimately it is chopping off a significant amount and resulting in a very substantial savings. I found an online calculator years back and ran the numbers experimenting with different amounts of excess principal to pay and settled on a value where the benefit of paying more was starting to plateau.
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The area where a lot of people could benefit is understanding the advantages of paying off excess principal faster than required. As soon as I earned enough to afford it I have paid a couple hundred bucks extra each month toward the principal and ultimately it is chopping off a significant amount and resulting in a very substantial savings. I found an online calculator years back and ran the numbers experimenting with different amounts of excess principal to pay and settled on a value where the benefit of paying more was starting to plateau.
Yep, it makes a HUGE life changing difference down the track.
Not only in reduced compounded interest, but in terms of forced saving and having equity you can pull out later.
Like I said before, I bought my own lab with zero approval required from anyone, and zero paperwork. I am my own bank. I simply took out the money stored in the home loan, and then payed off a commercial property at low home loan interest rates.
For those who don't know, if you think it's often hard getting a home loan, try getting a commercial property loan. At best (here in oz anyway), you need a 40% deposit and the interest rates are double home loan rates.
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For those who don't know, if you think it's often hard getting a home loan, try getting a commercial property loan. At best (here in oz anyway), you need a 40% deposit and the interest rates are double home loan rates.
When we moved houses, the year was 2010 and the banks were very shy in lending money without a minimum of 20% down payment, percentage of income, mandatory escrow* and other things. We were able to workaround these requirements and get the lowest rate by giving a down payment of about 40% of the total value. This was high enough that the bank was comfortable in removing the requirements and low enough that the bank would still make good profit. Above 60% down payment and the interest rate would start to increase again.
*For foreigners: escrow is when the money to pay taxes is added to every monthly payment. This is supposed to benefit the loaner, as he/she don't get a massive impact at the beginning of the year when the tax has to be paid. Since we are very responsible with money, we don't like this as the money generates zero interest for us loaners while the bank withholds this money scot-free.
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In the U.S., the mortgage holder (e.g., the bank) has NO ownership interest in the property. When someone buys property, they borrow money from a bank and then use that money (plus some of their own) to purchase the property. The property is then transferred to the new owner. When you get the mortgage, the bank is going to require that you give them a lien on the property. If you fail to pay the mortgage, the bank then has to go through the foreclosure process to take ownership of the property. Only then can they sell the property, and they are only allowed to keep as much money as necessary to pay off the outstanding debt, any extra goes back to the debtor.
The whole notion of "giving the property back to the bank" is incorrect, as is the idea that the bank can sell the property and make a profit.
Well said. A lot of people have a very loose and often mistaken idea of how mortgages work.
Ultimately I would say it doesn't really matter to the person buying the house. You get approved for a mortgage, you keep up on your payments and eventually own the property outright. If you fall far enough behind on the payments your loan can get foreclosed and the property is taken away, eventually to be sold.
The area where a lot of people could benefit is understanding the advantages of paying off excess principal faster than required. As soon as I earned enough to afford it I have paid a couple hundred bucks extra each month toward the principal and ultimately it is chopping off a significant amount and resulting in a very substantial savings. I found an online calculator years back and ran the numbers experimenting with different amounts of excess principal to pay and settled on a value where the benefit of paying more was starting to plateau.
maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
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maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
In USA you definitely can make extra payments on a mortgage, though it's important to specify that one wants it applied to the principal and not the interest, otherwise the bank will apply it as is most advantageous for them, not for you! :P Doing so does not, however, delay or replace any of the regular scheduled mortgage payments due. (This has caught many people off guard, who sent in payments early, but without the proper payment slip, resulting in "missed" payments despite actually having paid early.) This is different from paying off the whole mortgage early in one transaction, which does often involve a fee of some sort.
The details of course vary by the terms in the mortgage contract.
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maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
In USA you definitely can make extra payments on a mortgage, though it's important to specify that one wants it applied to the principal and not the interest, otherwise the bank will apply it as is most advantageous for them, not for you! :P Doing so does not, however, delay or replace any of the regular scheduled mortgage payments due. (This has caught many people off guard, who sent in payments early, but without the proper payment slip, resulting in "missed" payments despite actually having paid early.) This is different from paying off the whole mortgage early in one transaction, which does often involve a fee of some sort.
The details of course vary by the terms in the mortgage contract.
here a the bank is only doing the paperwork, mortgages are from separate institutions that does nothing else
but real estate mortgage bonds, I think the fee for paying extra is ~$100
but at the moment you where you can get fixed interest rates at close to 0% so does it really make sense to
pay off faster ?
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I bought a house suitable to my needs - not "the biggest house the bank said I could afford based on my income". Doing so has allowed me to pay extra principal every month, and getting me under an 80% loan to value figure just over 5 years in to a 30 year mortgage (straight calculation based on the original amount borrowed - I also put 10% down at time of purchase). This is allowing me to remove the $120/mo cost of mortgage insurance, but since I am more than comfortable with my payment as is, rather than take a reduction in payment, I will keep paying the same and add that additional $120 to the principal payment. I don;t want to be paying a mortgage after I retire, I want to have this paid off. Of course - in the US, that STILL doesn't mean I own my home - if I fail to pay my taxes, they can take my home. Yup, fail to pay a tax of $5000 and they can take a house currently worth about $240k. As in - I get nothing, kicked out to the streets. This is where a lot of the flippers get their properties, from tax auctions, all the selling party is looking to get is the taxes owed plus auction fees, so you have extravagant properties selling for pennies on the dollar. Of course, it IS an auction so if there is much competition, the price could go way up.
What Dave wants to do in regards to buying a house and making that the new EEVBlog Lab - that wouldn't work in most US communities due to zoning laws. No one generally says anything if you use a spare bedroom as an office and run a consulting business out of your house, or sell baskets or something as a side line. But unless the zoning allows commercial use of the property, you can't set up a full fledged business, even if the only difference is you might get a few more delivery trucks compared to the average person (yeah, so I order a lot from Amazon - big deal). Even if there is no noise, smells (well, so much for blowing up capacitors...) or constant coming and going disturbing the neighbors, it's simply not allowed in an area zoned residential.
As for Fran's situation, without the verifiable income, she's out of luck. ANd many banks have limits on how much of your down payment can come from gifts rather than directly from your own savings. You will often need to produce documentation proving it truly is a gift, even from family members, and not a loan you are expected to pay back. This generally applies to significant sums - say your parents gift you $10k towards a down payment, most banks will require a signed letter from your parents stating that this is a gift, free and clear of an obligation.
And I've said it before, In the city limits of Philadelphia is about the worst possible place to live. There is an extra sales tax above the state one. There is an extra income tax above the state one. There are other nearby places to live that you can also manage without a car, that do not have these extra taxes. There are also plenty of places in this state where no one will care about LGBTQ status. There are for sure places she would NOT want to live in this state, but downtown Philadelphia is NOT the only 'safe' place. Good example, not that housing there is cheap, for sure, but I'm willing to bet she'd find even MORE acceptance in New Hope, just a short distance north of Philadelphia. None of the extra taxes, but hosuing costs there are quite high, so it's not ideal across the board, but on the lifestyle issue, it probably doesn't get much better.
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maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
In USA you definitely can make extra payments on a mortgage, though it's important to specify that one wants it applied to the principal and not the interest, otherwise the bank will apply it as is most advantageous for them, not for you! :P Doing so does not, however, delay or replace any of the regular scheduled mortgage payments due. (This has caught many people off guard, who sent in payments early, but without the proper payment slip, resulting in "missed" payments despite actually having paid early.) This is different from paying off the whole mortgage early in one transaction, which does often involve a fee of some sort.
The details of course vary by the terms in the mortgage contract.
here a the bank is only doing the paperwork, mortgages are from separate institutions that does nothing else
but real estate mortgage bonds, I think the fee for paying extra is ~$100
but at the moment you where you can get fixed interest rates at close to 0% so does it really make sense to
pay off faster ?
I think my interest rate is 3.28%, it's very low but non-zero and when the principal is several hundred thousand dollars it doesn't take a very high percentage to add up to real money. Even paying extra I'm pretty sure I will ultimately pay more for interest than I do for the house.
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And we are now just a touch off topic ::)
Domestic housing loans to wage earners have little to ZERO relevance to the sole trader / self elmployed person getting a loan and in particular buying commercial property.
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maybe mortgages are different here, but afaik you can't just pay extra without fees or basically getting a new mortgage with a shorter period, which can only be done at certain intervals
Here in Australia most loans will have one of two options, or both:
1) An "offset account" that is a bank account you put money into, the balance of which is subtracted from the loan remaining amount. So if your pay goes into this account you automatically reduce your interest. And you pay your bills and live your life using this transaction account.
2) A "redraw facility" lets you take out extra money you have payed into your loan account. e.g. if your repayments are $1000/month and you pay $2000/month, in a year you'll have $14,000 you can redraw from your loan to use for whatever you want. I used this to buy my old lab outright. of course your principle has gone down if you withdraw it so your interest goes back up accordingly.
As for "line of credit" type loans. Let's say you own your home, you set up a line of credit loan, on say a $1M house they will give you an account with $800k in it you can use for anything you want. if you don't take the money out, you don't pay any interest and it just sits there like an $800k bank balance.
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Domestic housing loans to wage earners have little to ZERO relevance to the sole trader / self elmployed person getting a loan and in particular buying commercial property.
I don't believe Fran is buying a commercial property, I believe it's just a big residential apartment. I stand to be corrected though.
You usually can't live in a commercial property.
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but at the moment you where you can get fixed interest rates at close to 0% so does it really make sense to pay off faster ?
In theory, no, but in practice yes, because it forces you to save instead of pissing your money away like most people end up doing.
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Here in Australia most loans will have one of two options, or both:
1) An "offset account" that is a bank account you put money into, the balance of which is subtracted from the loan remaining amount. So if your pay goes into this account you automatically reduce your interest. And you pay your bills and live your life using this transaction account.
2) A "redraw facility" lets you take out extra money you have payed into your loan account. e.g. if your repayments are $1000/month and you pay $2000/month, in a year you'll have $14,000 you can redraw from your loan to use for whatever you want. I used this to buy my old lab outright. of course your principle has gone down if you withdraw it so your interest goes back up accordingly.
As for "line of credit" type loans. Let's say you own your home, you set up a line of credit loan, on say a $1M house they will give you an account with $800k in it you can use for anything you want. if you don't take the money out, you don't pay any interest and it just sits there like an $800k bank balance.
We don't have those options (offset or redraw) in the US. If you pay down your mortgage, you lose the optionality. We do have "HELOCs", but they are much more expensive than first mortgages.
I don't believe Fran is buying a commercial property, I believe it's just a big residential apartment. I stand to be corrected though.
You usually can't live in a commercial property.
You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
In practice, you can get away with either.
(There are also properties that are legal live/work.)
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With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
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With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
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You usually can't live in a commercial property.
I do, have been for 6 years. Officially homeless. No issues whatsoever. I need a "lab", and I need to live; and it's easier to do the lab / business thing in a commercial/industrial setting. This way, I get rid of half of the expenses. Here, we don't have any specific law that actually forbids it, it's just something people seem to assume and fear of doing. A key to avoid unwanted discussions or actions is to actually have commercial things going on (like me, or Fran, do). No law prevents you from working all night at your workplace. No law prevents you from having a sofa or bed at your workplace, or adding a shower. No law prevents you from taking a short nap while working. Quite the opposite, if a trendy Silicon Valley company implemented this, there would be articles of how well they take care of their workers.
Finally, no law prevents you from giving your "workplace" address to everyone, including authorities, so you get all the official mail. Homeless people (including those who really live on the streets) need to have an address as well, it's a normal procedure to come up with something.
It's just that if it becomes obvious that you are misusing a commercial property to live in, and not using it for the intended purpose, someone may get upset, and depending on legislation and actual contracts, may have leverage for actions. This is easily avoided by using it for the intended purpose and keeping low profile about the fact that your "naps" are 8 hours, not 30 minutes. This is easy, because it's your private area.
No one, including my landlord (I'm renting) or fire inspectors, have never had anything to say about this. They can clearly see I "quite" live here, but they clearly don't see it as an apartment, because the business + hobby is predominant.
And as a plus, I can drive a car in my living room.
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I do, have been for 6 years. Officially homeless. No issues whatsoever. I need a "lab", and I need to live; this way, I get rid of half of the expenses. Here, we don't have any specific law that actually forbids it, it's just something people seem to assume and fear of doing.
Not so here. Every commercial office complex I have seen has a clause in the strata law that forbids living on the premises.
Of course if Mrs EEVblog booted me out I'll be conveniently working really late nights at the lab for the foreseeable future.
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With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?
Because she refuses to even consider moving out of a certain part of Philly, and she has given up trying to get a loan.
But she also had limited time previously so had to find something quick. So even if she wanted to buy a place, that takes more time and effort.
After moving into the new space she only had $14,270 left from the GoFundMe, and said that will last another 8 months.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XpsuUPgY6k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XpsuUPgY6k)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY)
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission for extensions soley used for business, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY)
Watching that again she said that the her new lab was for sale before, she could have bought it, and wanted to, but couldn't get the loan.
Now she seems surprised it's going up for sale?
Maybe I missed a video and it's not the same place she's talking about?
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
In Croatia, there is even category of sole proprietor called something like "silent business" that legally allows just that. Electronics, computer programing, even lawyers and such are in that category.
You make a home office and run business from there.
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
In Croatia, there is even category of sole proprietor called something like "silent business" that legally allows just that. Electronics, computer programing, even lawyers and such are in that category.
You make a home office and run business from there.
Here, you can tax deduct up to 50% of your rent (probably your loan payments as well, wasn't relevant for me at the time) if you work as a sole proprietor in your home and can show (for example, using a floor plan and photographs) that said percentage is used to run the business.
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With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?
Because she refuses to even consider moving out of a certain part of Philly, and she has given up trying to get a loan.
But she also had limited time previously so had to find something quick. So even if she wanted to buy a place, that takes more time and effort.
After moving into the new space she only had $14,270 left from the GoFundMe, and said that will last another 8 months.
If that is the case then she has bigger issues: not enough income. She should be getting more money in the bank, not less. I fear this situation isn't going to end well.
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With all her whining artistic talent all she needs to do is make another video. The donated money may be sufficient to use for a downpayment .
Why wasn't the 44K last time used as a down payment?
Because she refuses to even consider moving out of a certain part of Philly, and she has given up trying to get a loan.
But she also had limited time previously so had to find something quick. So even if she wanted to buy a place, that takes more time and effort.
After moving into the new space she only had $14,270 left from the GoFundMe, and said that will last another 8 months.
Maybe she is just trying to proof that actually, beggars can be a choosers.
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My 2c worth...
The elephant in the room is that FranLab is not a going concern.
The April video explained that of the $44K donated that after expenses that the ongoing costs were only 63% funded.
i.e. the spare cash from the donations would be burnt in 8 months and here we are approx 8 months later.
Indeed the move has made things much worse than they were... Previously Fran said she was 100% funded in the old space but now is maintaining storage, sewing and lab areas so cost has increased and income hasn't... A recipe for going bust.
Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
As Dave pointed out recently the number of 100k sub channels has hugely increased so the FranLab channel in itself looks more like an indulgence rather than a way of life.
Maybe a brutal downsizing is required and maybe realise some $ from the stuff in storage.
Either that .. or find a sugar daddy Patreon!
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Either that .. or find a sugar daddy Patreon!
There's a website for that: https://www.seeking.com (https://www.seeking.com)
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission for extensions soley used for business, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
Not only is it fine, it's frequently positively encouraged, in terms of family friendly rights, mandated flexible working and limiting environmental impact. As a business, you also claim back a portion of your mortgage repayments or rent on your tax based on the proportion of the area used for your business.
It is possible to come unstuck if you're in breach of lease or planning terms. In practice, any action is extremely unlikely to be taken as long as you make efforts to get on with your neighbours, keep your head down, and don't generally accept visitors, or else the curtain twitchers and self-appointed parking wardens will start complaining. I have at least one or two daily visits from one or other logistics firms, which is frankly not a million miles away from some purely domestic residential units nowadays.
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
We are talking about a hypothetical situation of applying for a mortgage to buy such a space. The mortgage lender would know about it when she applied for a loan based on the income she would be getting from operating the business in that space. They probably would not go for that.
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It is possible to come unstuck if you're in breach of lease or planning terms.
Yes, even just for basic lab stuff even. I had to make sure that the lessor understood what I'd be doing in the lab, and got that added to the lease. Soldering, chemicals etc. Because that's fairly unique in an office complex building that is used to having just lawyers, accountants, and realestate agents etc. And an "engineering" firm like I have across the corridor is thought of as a bunch of engineers with big screens, calculators, and an A0 plotter.
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Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
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I think the market for old fashioned analog effects has dramatically reduced in favor of digital effects, especially as older musicians start to retire.
Maybe once she realizes there is no choice but to move to a cheaper area will she do so.
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission for extensions soley used for business, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
Not only is it fine, it's frequently positively encouraged, in terms of family friendly rights, mandated flexible working and limiting environmental impact. As a business, you also claim back a portion of your mortgage repayments or rent on your tax based on the proportion of the area used for your business.
how does that work with tax? here gains when selling a home you have lived in is tax free. If you jump through all the hoops to claim back a portion of your mortgage repayments I'm sure that will also mean being taxed on part of the gains when selling
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I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
I believe forum member Calambres (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=156976) specializes in this type of thing.
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You also can't have a light industrial business in a residential property :-//
If there's a low volume Internet based (no clients on site) business operating in a residential space without annoying neighbors, how would anyone even know about it, let alone complain?
In the UK at least, "Working from home" is completely fine. The only potential issue is planning permission, but if you get away with it for 6 years, nothing can be done about it.
In Croatia, there is even category of sole proprietor called something like "silent business" that legally allows just that. Electronics, computer programing, even lawyers and such are in that category.
You make a home office and run business from there.
here called usually a "liberal profession", providing services but not producing or selling goods
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I think you'll be out of business quickly. First you'll need to hire people to get the house cleaned & fixed up (people who have no money likely don't maintain their home). Then you'll need to get an auctioneer in to sell the house for you and hope there will be bidders who want to pay a lot and not a bunch of 'house flippers'. By that time you'll be losing money. Your best bet to make money from lending is to have people pay back their loans.
House flipping has become popular enough for it to guarantee a decent return. There's quite a bit of competition.
House-flipping is a sport here in the US. "Investors" will buy properties in foreclosure, deal with the issues and make repairs as necessary, and put in new cabinets and such. Then six months to a year later they'll put the house back on the market at market price, and they can make a tidy profit. The trick, of course, is to not overextend yourself; too many flippers have gone under when market conditions weren't what they had hoped for when the houses were put back on the market. Some flippers at that point may choose to just rent out the houses until the market improves.
The main thing a flipper needs is access to cash to buy the properties. You have to have money to borrow money, and thus to make money. Some flippers will take equity out of a home they own and use it as a down payment on an investment property/house to flip. It is these people who get screwed in a downturn, as they now have two mortgages to pay.
Another thing about the flippers: a lot of the work they do on the properties is purely cosmetic. Fresh paint, new floors, new cabinets, all of which is the cheapest possible and the sort of things a homeowner who intends to stay in a home would never choose.
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That was one of the big draws to me when I bought my house. It was looking a little tired but it was almost all original and unmolested. I loathe the cheap flipper remodel jobs where they try to update an old house to make it appear modern. It almost always ends up crappy, I'd much rather have original. Those remodel jobs always seem to involve knocking out walls to make one huge room out of the kitchen, dining and living spaces. I hate that, walls exist for a reason, to divide up areas used for different purposes so they can be used simultaneously. Then there is the fact that as mentioned everything is the cheapest of the cheap crap available.
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I think the market for old fashioned analog effects has dramatically reduced in favor of digital effects, especially as older musicians start to retire.
Not really. There's a pretty significant dichotomy between players who use digital multi-effects and old school analogue. I'm not going to put it in the same category as audiophile purchasing habits, but there are players who will spend $200 on a single pedal that does limited tone shaping. Sometimes it's the retro effect, other times it happens to be a particular pedal that does just the right tone shaping.
I just wouldn't rely on that market for a business. Maybe a supplementary side business at a residential location, but I wouldn't take out a loan based on that model!
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You usually can't live in a commercial property.
I do, have been for 6 years. Officially homeless. ..................
No one, including my landlord (I'm renting) or fire inspectors, have never had anything to say about this. They can clearly see I "quite" live here, but they clearly don't see it as an apartment, because the business + hobby is predominant.
And as a plus, I can drive a car in my living room.
Lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.
Look at it from their potential POV:
Premises in use 24/365 and the additional wear and tear that creates.
Higher insurance risk.
Greater/faster property depreciation/higher maintenance.
Have you ever considered if the landlord isn't factoring into the lease these additional costs imposed upon them from live-in commercial tenants then they're subsidizing your lifestyle ?
A buddy that has commercial tenants won't allow such live-in tenancy agreements other than 12hr/6 day occupancy.
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Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead of clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.
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Living in commercial properties varies vastly. Some of the normal exceptions are 'caretakers' and 'security' which will get you around the red tape in some cases. Giving advice of what you have got away with or seen gotten away with and the actual local rules may be two very different things. Australian rules vary by state for example and then on top of that local councils can also impose additional layers of :bullshit:
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Australian rules vary by state for example and then on top of that local councils can also impose additional layers of :bullshit:
And then you have the corporate strata conditions where that restriction is common. It's hard to enforce that, especially if an owner does it, but it's there and the corporate body can take legal action if needed.
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I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
There is, but it has become a very niche market. I don't know enough about Frantone to have an opinion here. But all I can say is that these days, you have to have some kind of "high-end" offering to pull that off. And you have to put a lot of effort in marketing to have a chance to sell enough to make a living out of it.
Again I don't know Frantone much, but if she wants to make this more profitable, she'd probably have to re-think her product line a bit and offer new things. Also make the activity a bit more diverse. For instance, design guitar amps as well, offer some kind of additional service, etc. And of course, ADVERTISE! I think a brand new and modernized web site would be in order as well.
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Again I don't know Frantone much, but if she wants to make this more profitable, she'd probably have to re-think her product line a bit and offer new things. Also make the activity a bit more diverse. For nstance, design guitar amps as well, offer some kind of additional service, etc. And of course, ADVERTISE! I think a brand new and modernized web site would be in order as well.
I'm sure a viewer with web experience could help with that.
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I still don't get why she needs that much space. I don't get why Dave needs that much space, lol. After you're done reviewing your o-scopes, you can get rid of 29 of them and just keep the 2 you use, right?
I have seen Fran use a small lathe. I'm sure she has a drill press and some other basic tools. What the heck do you need a commercial property for to use such equipment? Garage. Fran, look it up. I bet RX8 has a higher amount of more used and useful equipment in his garage. Collin Furze is building hoverbikes and hydralic Edwards scissor hands every two weeks, and getting million of subscribers, and he does this out of his garage. My Carlson's Lab seems to be a room the size of my bedroom closet filled oscilloscopes and with room for only a chair, his head, and about 1 square foot of bench space. I've never seen a Fran video on anything that couldn't be done out of a bedroom, not counting making a small wooden housing for a radio, smaller than a volleyball.
Perhaps Fran wants her Youtube channel to support her lifestyle. But her lifestyle is maybe not necessary in order to produce the content she currently makes. Well, take that back. Her lifestyle and personal issues are increasingly = to her content.
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Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead of clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.
Musicians who prefer limited-scope pedals rather than a does-it-all digital box like how they have immediate access to everything during performance. The digital boxes work quite well if you spend the time to program them in advance and have your set list all sorted, but if you get into any sort of improvisation then nothing beats having those knobs at your feet.
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Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead of clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.
Musicians who prefer limited-scope pedals rather than a does-it-all digital box like how they have immediate access to everything during performance. The digital boxes work quite well if you spend the time to program them in advance and have your set list all sorted, but if you get into any sort of improvisation then nothing beats having those knobs at your feet.
Yes I agree.
The problem is that electric guitar/bass (and related item) sales have been declining for a long time now.
There's a ton of boutique pedal effects makers chasing this shrinking market, not to mention a flood of cheap effects coming in from China, as was mentioned.
https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/ (https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/)
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Dave suggested increasing income via Frantone as a way out and it looks like that could be a way out either by manufacturing or perhaps licencing?
Coincidently she just mentioned in her latest video that Frantone is dead because there is no market for it. The only interest she gets is weekly requests for writing articles about the history of Frantone etc.
I know jack about the music scene, but I'm sure there is still a market for hand made analog gear, effects pedals etc, surely?
the market is completely flooded with both top dollar hand mades and cheap chinese knockoffs and its also declining as the newer generation move to digital modelling amps that fit in your bag instead of clunky old expensive tube amps which weigh tonnes.
Musicians who prefer limited-scope pedals rather than a does-it-all digital box like how they have immediate access to everything during performance. The digital boxes work quite well if you spend the time to program them in advance and have your set list all sorted, but if you get into any sort of improvisation then nothing beats having those knobs at your feet.
Yes I agree.
The problem is that electric guitar/bass (and related item) sales have been declining for a long time now.
There's a ton of boutique pedal effects makers chasing this shrinking market, not to mention a flood of cheap effects coming in from China, as was mentioned.
https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/ (https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/05/10/electric-guitar-sales/)
On top of all this, most of these classic "tone" pedals are fully documented and reversed engineered and are quite simple to build as hobby projects for anyone with a soldering iron and a few bucks. The pedal world is full of Audio Woo (tm) and much drama is made of transistors and an op amp brands.
eg: Frans big muff type pedals https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic
Hers costs $300 ish, Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.
Personally, I used to have a tube amp and a pedal board of unique pedals, it does sound *better* than a digital modelling board in a one to one analysis however the moment you have to mic up the amp, or play in a musically dead room, or carry that crap around, that small difference in sound quality becomes much harder to hear.
As for creativity Im finding the digital one more creative because it has such a big range of virtual pedals Id never bother buying in boutique form.
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On top of all this, most of these classic "tone" pedals are fully documented and reversed engineered and are quite simple to build as hobby projects for anyone with a soldering iron and a few bucks. The pedal world is full of Audio Woo (tm) and much drama is made of transistors and an op amp brands.
eg: Frans big muff type pedals https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic
Hers costs $300 ish, Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.
Personally, I used to have a tube amp and a pedal board of unique pedals, it does sound *better* than a digital modelling board in a one to one analysis however the moment you have to mic up the amp, or play in a musically dead room, or carry that crap around, that small difference in sound quality becomes much harder to hear.
As for creativity Im finding the digital one more creative because it has such a big range of virtual pedals Id never bother buying in boutique form.
Hmm I wonder if a DSP pedal would sell. The pedal comes doing exactly nothing by default, but you can load arbitrary program into it (up to memory limitation) to make it perform any function...
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On top of all this, most of these classic "tone" pedals are fully documented and reversed engineered and are quite simple to build as hobby projects for anyone with a soldering iron and a few bucks. The pedal world is full of Audio Woo (tm) and much drama is made of transistors and an op amp brands.
eg: Frans big muff type pedals https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic
Hers costs $300 ish, Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.
Personally, I used to have a tube amp and a pedal board of unique pedals, it does sound *better* than a digital modelling board in a one to one analysis however the moment you have to mic up the amp, or play in a musically dead room, or carry that crap around, that small difference in sound quality becomes much harder to hear.
As for creativity Im finding the digital one more creative because it has such a big range of virtual pedals Id never bother buying in boutique form.
Hmm I wonder if a DSP pedal would sell. The pedal comes doing exactly nothing by default, but you can load arbitrary program into it (up to memory limitation) to make it perform any function...
the teensy boards come with synth and audio processing libraries that exploit the DSP on the high end arm micro's (cortex m4) and you can buy a case with input/output buffered circuits for them
https://www.tindie.com/products/Blackaddr/arduino-teensy-guitar-audio-shield/ (https://www.tindie.com/products/Blackaddr/arduino-teensy-guitar-audio-shield/)
a realtime FGPA version would possibly be popular but the skill required to make it sound nice is possibly a step too far for the hacker market, so you would also need to do a gui that provided building blocks.
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...
eg: Frans big muff type pedals https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis (https://www.electrosmash.com/big-muff-pi-analysis) are $20 worth of parts and an easy schematic
Hers costs $300 ish, Aliexpress has them for $40 ish and its one of the settings on my digital modeller for free.
...
Joyo overdrive was $25 but its gotten so many positive reviews from pro's that the price went up to $35-40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfuAkR1V2o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQfuAkR1V2o)
Hmm I wonder if a DSP pedal would sell. The pedal comes doing exactly nothing by default, but you can load arbitrary program into it (up to memory limitation) to make it perform any function...
There's a ton of those around already but DSP pedals tend to cost more and have more features... why not, its just additional software/firmware...
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I still don't get why she needs that much space. I don't get why Dave needs that much space, lol.
I don't actually need 100sqm now that David works from home, so it's just me and a part time packing and shipping person.
The old 50sqm lab would be enough if I didn't have packing and shipping, that takes room. We used to do packing on the floor because of the lack space. So I need somewhere between 50-100sqm.
Could I get by with less? yeah, if I had to, but I don't have to any more so I choose not to.
Bench space is important, my old 50sqm lab had 6 benches. It's not about equipment storage, it's about working bench space to put stuff in progress etc. I have a storage bunker which helps a lot, it holds all my stock and my "hoard". Every week or two I bring up boxes of stock from the bunker.
Just having a permanent mailbag "set" takes room.
As for Fran she has sewing and all sorts of mechanical construction stuff. I can see her easily needing 200sqm+ when she lives there, works there, and uses it for storage.
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Oh. I didn't realize you regularly made and shipped stuff. I forgot about the Bryman DMM thing.
I recalled the scientific calculator from like a decade ago. And I guess the uCurrent is still selling? Wonder what else I missed.
As for Fran she has sewing and all sorts of mechanical construction stuff. I can see her easily needing 200sqm+ when she lives there, works there, and uses it for storage.
200 square meters is a fairly cozy house. I mean that's about 1800 square feet, right? I guess she doesn't want to live in a residential area, though. I guess I haven't seen too many of her videos where she uses/features/demonstrates any of that stuff. Had no idea about the sewing. I wonder if that generates any income.
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Oh. I didn't realize you regularly made and shipped stuff. I forgot about the Bryman DMM thing.
I recalled the scientific calculator from like a decade ago. And I guess the uCurrent is still selling? Wonder what else I missed.
http://eevblog.com/store (http://eevblog.com/store)
I have many hundreds of meters in stock at any one time, I order pallet loads of them at a time.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuNRuwnV4AApDK3?format=jpg&name=900x900)
As for Fran she has sewing and all sorts of mechanical construction stuff. I can see her easily needing 200sqm+ when she lives there, works there, and uses it for storage.
200 square meters is a fairly cozy house. I mean that's about 1800 square feet, right? I guess she doesn't want to live in a residential area, though. I guess I haven't seen too many of her videos where she uses/features/demonstrates any of that stuff. Had no idea about the sewing. I wonder if that generates any income.
Her Youtube username is actually ContourCorsets, as is her Twitter name, not FranLab, or FranTone. She makes custom corsets, but not sure how much these days.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ContourCorsets (https://www.youtube.com/user/ContourCorsets)
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Lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.
They don't need to know every detail. The point is, don't do anything that causes any harm or risk to them, and they'll have nothing against you (formally or informally). Be a good customer, in other words.
Look at it from their potential POV:
Premises in use 24/365 and the additional wear and tear that creates.
I generate an order of magnitude less wear and tear than a typical tenant, which is a car repair shop by day, and hobby car repair shop by night.
Sleeping on a bed for 8 hours generates 0% more wear and tear than sleeping for 30 min, which is clearly allowed and normal.
Higher insurance risk.
Err, nope. No difference whatsoever.
Greater/faster property depreciation/higher maintenance.
Nope, see the first point.
I have been able to report things like roof leaking during heavy rain in the middle of the night with zero latency. My landlord likes me thanks to this fact.
Have you ever considered if the landlord isn't factoring into the lease these additional costs imposed upon them from live-in commercial tenants then they're subsidizing your lifestyle ?
No, because this is based on your imagination based on non-facts caused by not properly reading what I wrote, then extrapolating between the lines. Please don't make assumptions on my "lifestyle".
A buddy that has commercial tenants won't allow such live-in tenancy agreements other than 12hr/6 day occupancy.
Such agreement isn't in place. Sometimes you need to stop looking at things legal/paper side first, and concentrate doing the right thing, and being excellent to each other.
I have no more comments regarding this, let's keep on track.
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Lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.
They don't need to know every detail.
Why not, it's their property and investment after all and their right to set terms to protect it.
Sure, you pay for the right to use it at terms agreeable to you both however not disclosing full facts of usage is deceit.
Anyways as I posted earlier, lucky you, not all landlords are that accommodating.
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There are certainly areas within easy walks of all sorts of things in Philadelphia that are small homes with garages. I lives in the Northeast section of the city immediately after college, and while I lived in an apartment building with 5 apartments, the rest f the residences on my street were single family homes with even small yards and garages, yet I was only 1 block off the main street with all sorts of shops - I could and did walk to most everything except my job which was several miles away. And it was a bit far to carry a week or more worth of groceries by walking, so instead of the fairly nearby place, I usually stopped on the way home from work since I already was in my car anyway. There are similar areas where there are no yards, just blocks of houses, but they have garages, not the ancient style row home built in an age before the automobile. At the time, this fit my lifestyle, but after a year and a half or so I took a better job and needed to move closer to that because the commute was killing me.
Mostly pointless to talk about, Fran will do as she wishes. There are options which can keep the same thing from happening to her over and over again, but as the old adage goes, you can lead a horse to water...
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Fran is having money problems again, new Patron's aren't replacing Patron who drop off, as well as Youtube not sharing her content as per usual:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J6woVfpChk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J6woVfpChk)
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Which should surprise absolutely nobody.
To be honest, I largely stopped watching after it seemed there was more drama than interesting engineering, not that I watch a lot of youtube videos to begin with.
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Fran is having money problems again, new Patron's aren't replacing Patron who drop off, as well as Youtube not sharing her content as per usual:
Still getting shared to me but IF I do or choose not to watch it has changed in frequency over the public pleas of 'help poor me'. For someone who has been largely or totally self employed like Fran for more than a few years including pre youtube, if it isn't sustainable then the $ stops with them to sort it out.
For the bulk of the last two decades I have been self employed and in the case of one Retail business which was becoming increasingly unsustainable I closed it. Some didn't understand then that I wanted more than Beans on Toast and a Tent to live in and some still don't understand now after 8 years but that was my pragmatic decision to change what I do/did for a $.
Time for Fran to face the financial reality and change course!
edit there she is right beside an EEVBlog video I did watch some time ago ;)
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Yep, time to get another job. Keep milking the patrons I guess for whatever with occasional videos. When they're all gone just stop entirely.
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Yep, time to get another job. Keep milking the patrons I guess for whatever with occasional videos. When they're all gone just stop entirely.
No need to get another job, she could start selling branded stuff. Not just merch but useful stuff like meters like what I sell. Sure you have to pony up the money to buy stock, but if you chose the right stuff that has good margins and perhaps scarcity, then it can make the enterprise profitable with minimal time outlay.
My packing and shipping business is big enough to employ someone casual for a couple of hours two days a week, and I can (and do) do that myself when she's not available. It's not a huge time sink even when I do it.
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Yep, time to get another job. Keep milking the patrons I guess for whatever with occasional videos. When they're all gone just stop entirely.
No need to get another job, she could start selling branded stuff. Not just merch but useful stuff like meters like what I sell. Sure you have to pony up the money to buy stock, but if you chose the right stuff that has good margins and perhaps scarcity, then it can make the enterprise profitable with minimal time outlay.
My packing and shipping business is big enough to employ someone casual for a couple of hours two days a week, and I can (and do) do that myself when she's not available. It's not a huge time sink even when I do it.
I suppose it depends on your point of view but I do think that's another job even if it's related. You're absolutely right though she should probably invest in something like that before there is nothing to invest. It just seems like she expected to coast through the rest of her life doing the same thing until... Millions showed up in her lap?
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I suppose it depends on your point of view but I do think that's another job even if it's related. You're absolutely right though she should probably invest in something like that before there is nothing to invest. It just seems like she expected to coast through the rest of her life doing the same thing until... Millions showed up in her lap?
When it's building upon your "brand" I can't see how it's another job, you are just expanding your brands and services (product sales in addition to content creation).
I for one could not survive if it was just Youtube and Patreon income. US$42k last year in Adsense revenue and almost the same in Patreon income. That's pretty good money, about US$80k a year, but that's before expenses and my wife and two kids. I could earn more as a 9-5 engineer. And my audience is 7 times bigger than Frans. I only stay afloat at this because of the additional product sales and extra website advertising.
So she absolutely cannot continue to survive on just Adsense and Patreon income, unless she cut her expenses drastically by moving to a much cheaper area, and/or got a partner than could double the income and split expenses. So the only way forward seems to be product sales or some other associated business that builds upon the brand.
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I suppose it depends on your point of view but I do think that's another job even if it's related. You're absolutely right though she should probably invest in something like that before there is nothing to invest. It just seems like she expected to coast through the rest of her life doing the same thing until... Millions showed up in her lap?
When it's building upon your "brand" I can't see how it's another job, you are just expanding your brands and services (product sales in addition to content creation).
I for one could not survive if it was just Youtube and Patreon income. US$42k last year in Adsense revenue and almost the same in Patreon income. That's pretty good money, about US$80k a year, but that's before expenses and my wife and two kids. I could earn more as a 9-5 engineer. And my audience is 7 times bigger than Frans. I only stay afloat at this because of the additional product sales and extra website advertising.
So she absolutely cannot continue to survive on just Adsense and Patreon income, unless she cut her expenses drastically by moving to a much cheaper area, and/or got a partner than could double the income and split expenses. So the only way forward seems to be product sales or some other associated business that builds upon the brand.
You have created a monetizable "hangout" for electronics engineers and hobbyists from all over the world... (thank you!). I don't know if that is what you set out to do, or if it just kind of happened... either way, in the words of the philosopher Goethe, "Boldness has genius and power and magic in it". To my mind, boldness is the essential ingredient that separates the "Great" from the "Good" when it comes to pretty much any human activity or product. But it is not enough on its own.
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So she absolutely cannot continue to survive on just Adsense and Patreon income, unless she cut her expenses drastically by moving to a much cheaper area, and/or got a partner than could double the income and split expenses. So the only way forward seems to be product sales or some other associated business that builds upon the brand.
Yup.
And related to a previous discussion, there really seems to be renewed interest for analog guitar effects (pedals) lately. At the last NAMM show (which I think Fran should attend if she doesn't already), there were a good number of them.
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I suppose it depends on your point of view but I do think that's another job even if it's related. You're absolutely right though she should probably invest in something like that before there is nothing to invest. It just seems like she expected to coast through the rest of her life doing the same thing until... Millions showed up in her lap?
When it's building upon your "brand" I can't see how it's another job, you are just expanding your brands and services (product sales in addition to content creation).
I for one could not survive if it was just Youtube and Patreon income. US$42k last year in Adsense revenue and almost the same in Patreon income. That's pretty good money, about US$80k a year, but that's before expenses and my wife and two kids. I could earn more as a 9-5 engineer. And my audience is 7 times bigger than Frans. I only stay afloat at this because of the additional product sales and extra website advertising.
don't you think that much of that product sale is fueled by the large community you maintain with this forum, regular videos, etc. ?
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Well there is also constant exposure to others of this forum through hackaday where articles always mention "xxx at eevblog forums...".
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I don't know why she does produce more guitar pedals. A couple of years ago she was going to restart and outsource production with another company. But nothing appears to have come from it.
Small scale production with no middle man, and sell from her own website. She could just build to order, so no need to hold much stock. I know some parts in her old designs are obsolete, but enough in low volumes could be tracked down, if she does not want to design in replacements.
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To me the title of this song sums it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH-i8IvYIcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH-i8IvYIcg)
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You have created a monetizable "hangout" for electronics engineers and hobbyists from all over the world... (thank you!). I don't know if that is what you set out to do, or if it just kind of happened...
It just kinda happened. Absolutely no thought about making monkey from this gig. When I started the channel and set up this forum practically no one in the world was making any money on Youtube let alone a full time income from it.
I've set up many forum in the past for various, it's just something I did to let people discuss stuff. I had the old aus.electronics Yahoo forum, and a couple of others forum for various things I was into.
I had no idea how much to charge for advertising on the forum when someone asked, so when I got the first request SupplyFrame (who still advertise above), i had just been retrenched from Altium and I looked at how much money I was getting from Adsense + kit sales at the time, and the difference between that and how much I was making at Altium was how much I charged SupplyFrame and they accepted. And overnight this whole thing became my full time job.
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I suppose it depends on your point of view but I do think that's another job even if it's related. You're absolutely right though she should probably invest in something like that before there is nothing to invest. It just seems like she expected to coast through the rest of her life doing the same thing until... Millions showed up in her lap?
When it's building upon your "brand" I can't see how it's another job, you are just expanding your brands and services (product sales in addition to content creation).
I for one could not survive if it was just Youtube and Patreon income. US$42k last year in Adsense revenue and almost the same in Patreon income. That's pretty good money, about US$80k a year, but that's before expenses and my wife and two kids. I could earn more as a 9-5 engineer. And my audience is 7 times bigger than Frans. I only stay afloat at this because of the additional product sales and extra website advertising.
don't you think that much of that product sale is fueled by the large community you maintain with this forum, regular videos, etc. ?
Of course, I've spent the last 10 years building this "brand" and community. Fran is no different, just smaller in scale, but her audience are no less willing to buy products and mech to help out.
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To me the title of this song sums it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH-i8IvYIcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH-i8IvYIcg)
Sounds all a bit "1950's conformist dad". You, not the song.
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The lead singer of The Offspring has PhD in molecular biology.
Pedals/music toys are a hard business to be in, even if you're a recognised brand.
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Fran is having money problems again, new Patron's aren't replacing Patron who drop off, as well as Youtube not sharing her content as per usual:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J6woVfpChk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J6woVfpChk)
And after having this video recommended almost everyday if not several times a day I have finally ticked the NOT INTERESTED button as I have no plans to watch a poor me whine session. This is the ONLY one of Frans Videos that youtube has shown to me in the last week or so.
Looking at her recent channel views seems the Algorithim likes whining and bitching over proper content :-//
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Fran is having money problems again, new Patron's aren't replacing Patron who drop off, as well as Youtube not sharing her content as per usual:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J6woVfpChk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J6woVfpChk)
And after having this video recommended almost everyday if not several times a day I have finally ticked the NOT INTERESTED button as I have no plans to watch a poor me whine session. This is the ONLY one of Frans Videos that youtube has shown to me in the last week or so.
Looking at her recent channel views seems the Algorithim likes whining and bitching over proper content :-//
Looks like their "AI" is more than a little narcissistic. It really likes when people talk about it, good or bad.
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And after having this video recommended almost everyday if not several times a day I have finally ticked the NOT INTERESTED button as I have no plans to watch a poor me whine session. This is the ONLY one of Frans Videos that youtube has shown to me in the last week or so.
Looking at her recent channel views seems the Algorithim likes whining and bitching over proper content :-//
Well it's not getting that info from the title, the description, or the keywords, as she is doing nothing special to tag and identify the video as a "whine session".
From the last 22 videos it's only one of two with >30k views, the other is a repair. Maybe people just like rants and repairs, wouldn't surprise me, and the algorithm picks up on the extra view rate/comment ratio.
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Given the the Automated nature of Copyright for music and auto subtitles (flawed as they are) maybe big brother Algorithm also works over what is said in the video to figure out what to promote :-//
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Given the the Automated nature of Copyright for music and auto subtitles (flawed as they are) maybe big brother Algorithm also works over what is said in the video to figure out what to promote :-//
All videos are text translated within 10's minutes of upload, what is done with that text though in terms of algorithm, no one knows.
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Given the the Automated nature of Copyright for music and auto subtitles (flawed as they are) maybe big brother Algorithm also works over what is said in the video to figure out what to promote :-//
All videos are text translated within 10's minutes of upload, what is done with that text though in terms of algorithm, no one knows.
More than likely, the speech-to-text is included by the search algos. Anything else wouldn't make sense...
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How many of her current supporters/viewers are actively playing electric guitar? For that reason, guitar pedal effects is obviously the wrong merch to hawk via her YT channel. This seems so obvious to me. :-//
Simple electronics kit. Something like a gag, really. A FranLab soldering challenge with 50 cent PCB with various footprints + BOM of $0.004 parts? A blinking LED 555 kit? A continuity tester PCB with a set of 1.00 test probes? Just as long as she puts her logo on it and pretends to be excited about it. Something that promises 30 minutes of distraction from your daily grind, and will look nice on a shelf or hanging on the wall after that 30 minutes is over.
I don't think time and money is necessarily very significant, here. And would it NOT make for good video content if she showed some of the dev, the design, the arrival of the first box from China and opening it like a X-mas prezzie? I dunno, because I'm not sure what qualifies as "good content" to her subscribers or regular viewers, but it seems to be this is two birds with one stone.
1-3 dollar total cost. Sell it for 15 or 20 bucks. First class shipping, only. If it doesn't get there, ship another. You buy it, you help Fran, and you get a little experience and trinket out of it. Vs sell a guitar pedal to 10% of the 1% of viewers who play the electric guitar, and which will have a tiny profit margin and huge investment in comparison.
Heck, maybe she could sell other peoples' kits for a percentage of gross?
T-shirts? Where does she sell her T-shirts, even? Or does she?
Dunno why she thinks that making the channel self-sustaining without any merch is the "only way it works." Or why this would be insanely expensive. The most amazing thing about electronics is how incredibly cheap it is to get into, today. Free dev and PCB tools out there, millions of components at low prices, Chinese PCB manufacturers coming to us, now, directly on the internet with websites made for us in our languages. No more middlemen or translators needed. And of course all the info and datasheets available on the web, today, clickity click.
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You make some good points, KL27x.
Subscribers will support the content creators they follow by buying merchandise. But it has to be either 1) something they want/need, or 2) inexpensive and not completely useless.
I have some uRulers sitting in a desk drawer that can attest to that. I have also bought the books written by some of the content creators I follow.
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^ Yeah, you get me. It's like a one-time Patreon donation, but you don't have to sign up for Patreon. Cuz lots of people have heard of it but aren't ready to learn/trust/sign-up-give-your-info-out to Patreon, yet. You just have to do something most of us do at least once a week, these days, already. Buy stuff on the internet. The viewers understanding/knowing the profit margin is generous and the actual value is not, this is actually a good thing in this case. You get a warm fuzzy feeling. You get a group experience out of it, esp if she shows some of the process and shows the PCB website/email on the delivery date, and she makes it like a real time thing viewers can follow and or look forward to. She needs some more of that. Something positive/happy to look forward to, IMO.
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You make some good points, KL27x.
Subscribers will support the content creators they follow by buying merchandise. But it has to be either 1) something they want/need, or 2) inexpensive and not completely useless.
I have some uRulers sitting in a desk drawer that can attest to that. I have also bought the books written by some of the content creators I follow.
I remember some of the woodworkers on YT talking about how very few who buy they plans they sell actually
build the thing
I also remember Matthias Wandel telling the one time he did sponsored video sales of plans instantly dropped,
so an indication that people will buy stuff they don't really need to support a channel, if they think the channels
needs it
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Another way that I have supported content creators it through Humble Bundle purchases.
One of the YouTube video game creation channels I follow will create a video and provide an affiliate link to video game creation related bundles. You can donate a pretty large chunk of the sale to the person that provided the affiliate link.
Fran or Dave could make a small fortune if any electronics-related bundles ever come up. I do happen to remember there was a Make Electronics e-book bundle not too long ago.
Edit: LOL. I guess I should have checked before posting. Humble Bundle actually has a "DIY Electronics 2.0" bundle going on as we speak. Fran or Dave should set themselves up as an affiliate and put a plug in for it. Only 5 days left, though, so hurry.
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I an already see it. I'm thinking $1000 for the actual product/inventory to see what shakes. The webstore would cost more, if you can't do that yourself. But maybe she can just link to eBay or Etsy or something, if she can't do/afford the webstore.
And then... I imagine win/win, either way. If it does great, just turn on the camera and talk about it. Smile, laugh, cry, thank the viewers. If it does poorly, ditto. Another end-of-the-world video with a bow on it. Ratings. Win. If she has any acting chops, this will be great.
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube. Sometimes it happens, Dave pulled it off, at least for now, but it could evaporate at any time so it would be foolish to not have a backup plan. It's clear to me that Fran is going to have to get a real job of some sort and then she can keep doing the videos on the side as time permits.
I watched several really interesting technical ones, I particularly remember one about the radios that were used to receive Muzak, that was fascinating. I don't care one bit about personal drama though, that sort of reality TV bs is largely what drove me away from traditional TV. The last thing I want in my life is more drama.
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Total aside, but since Dave and others continue to post Fran stuff to this megathread, perhaps the title could be changed to something less depressing. It definitely shades my perception that I read "Franlab is getting evicted!" every time there's seemingly any new Fran-related post. :-//
This is 27 pages from 18 months ago. How long does the eviction process take in Philly? :-DD
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Total aside, but since Dave and others continue to post Fran stuff to this megathread, perhaps the title could be changed to something less depressing. It definitely shades my perception that I read "Franlab is getting evicted!" every time there's seemingly any new Fran-related post. :-//
This is 27 pages from 18 months ago. How long does the eviction process take in Philly? :-DD
Depends on how many ways a person can find to delay the inevitable.
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube.
Agreed. Every youtuber should have that posted on the wall. Hard to come across one who hasnt complained lately how hard their life on yt is.
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube.
Agreed. Every youtuber should have that posted on the wall. Hard to come across one who hasnt complained lately how hard their life on yt is.
My life is pretty sweet ;D
But then again, I have never been 100% dependent on Youtube and/or Patreon income.
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Another way that I have supported content creators it through Humble Bundle purchases.
One of the YouTube video game creation channels I follow will create a video and provide an affiliate link to video game creation related bundles. You can donate a pretty large chunk of the sale to the person that provided the affiliate link.
Fran or Dave could make a small fortune if any electronics-related bundles ever come up.
I make a pretty decent chunk from Amazon and Aliexpress. AliExpress affiliate has since surpassed Amazon as an income source.
If you start to see regular videos with links to Aliexpress gadgets you'll know I'm in financial trouble ;D
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How many of her current supporters/viewers are actively playing electric guitar? For that reason, guitar pedal effects is obviously the wrong merch to hawk via her YT channel. This seems so obvious to me. :-//
Simple electronics kit. Something like a gag, really. A FranLab soldering challenge with 50 cent PCB with various footprints + BOM of $0.004 parts? A blinking LED 555 kit? A continuity tester PCB with a set of 1.00 test probes? Just as long as she puts her logo on it and pretends to be excited about it. Something that promises 30 minutes of distraction from your daily grind, and will look nice on a shelf or hanging on the wall after that 30 minutes is over.
I don't think time and money is necessarily very significant, here. And would it NOT make for good video content if she showed some of the dev, the design, the arrival of the first box from China and opening it like a X-mas prezzie? I dunno, because I'm not sure what qualifies as "good content" to her subscribers or regular viewers, but it seems to be this is two birds with one stone.
1-3 dollar total cost. Sell it for 15 or 20 bucks. First class shipping, only. If it doesn't get there, ship another. You buy it, you help Fran, and you get a little experience and trinket out of it. Vs sell a guitar pedal to 10% of the 1% of viewers who play the electric guitar, and which will have a tiny profit margin and huge investment in comparison.
Heck, maybe she could sell other peoples' kits for a percentage of gross?
T-shirts? Where does she sell her T-shirts, even? Or does she?
Dunno why she thinks that making the channel self-sustaining without any merch is the "only way it works." Or why this would be insanely expensive. The most amazing thing about electronics is how incredibly cheap it is to get into, today. Free dev and PCB tools out there, millions of components at low prices, Chinese PCB manufacturers coming to us, now, directly on the internet with websites made for us in our languages. No more middlemen or translators needed. And of course all the info and datasheets available on the web, today, clickity click.
If I was in Fran's financial position I would totally start doing sponsored videos rather than let the channel die and have to get a "real job".
I'd be incredibly surprised if she doesn't already get sponsorship offers, every Youtuber does.
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The musician stomp pedals and accessories market is still pretty strong,
and a lot of ladies have been getting into it (or should be!) as well
I would suggest Fran consider something in that field as she has the experience already and a Youtube channel to back it up,
and well, truth be told afaik, most ladies will trust the recommendation of other ladies
before considering any gentlemens sales pitches flogging the same or similar items
Just a thought, and best of luck to Fran :-+
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The musician stomp pedals and accessories market is still pretty strong,
If memory serves she's talked about this. Modern pedals are all digital and she's only interested in the old school analog stuff.
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Another way that I have supported content creators it through Humble Bundle purchases.
One of the YouTube video game creation channels I follow will create a video and provide an affiliate link to video game creation related bundles. You can donate a pretty large chunk of the sale to the person that provided the affiliate link.
Fran or Dave could make a small fortune if any electronics-related bundles ever come up.
I make a pretty decent chunk from Amazon and Aliexpress. AliExpress affiliate has since surpassed Amazon as an income source.
If you start to see regular videos with links to Aliexpress gadgets you'll know I'm in financial trouble ;D
When you start doing Gearbest reviews all hope is lost ;)
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Guitar effects could be good for content. But if you have 100,000 subscribers (and average view count of 4k) to a show about old electronics, my gosh you could sell a whole 20 of them a year, lol.
I don't think you get more than single digit percentage of guitar players who watch a Fran video will buy one. And then how many guitar players out of those viewers? I think half her viewers have a soldering iron, and there are probably plenty more who might be interested in buying one (from her affiliate link, maybe?) just to participate.
I'm technically a guitar player, and I'm not interested to pay for Chinese PCBA salaries $60 bucks so that Fran can make $10. Also, I haven't played in a long time. I learned on electric a long time ago, but now I own an acoustic (which I bought in a mid life crisis, tuned it, put it on a stand. I think I might still have it; I might have actually tossed it without every playing it, lol). :)
3-5k for her content videos. 30k+ on her rant videos. I wonder how many of these 100K subs even own a soldering iron.
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The musician stomp pedals and accessories market is still pretty strong,
If memory serves she's talked about this. Modern pedals are all digital and she's only interested in the old school analog stuff.
Surely there's still a market for boutique analog pedals, however I think it would be extremely difficult to make a living from that. It could be a hobby to make some fun money on the side but I'd hate to have to try to pay the billls off selling niche market stuff like that.
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clearly you can just make an app for that ::)
with a built in autotuner
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Surely there's still a market for boutique analog pedals, however I think it would be extremely difficult to make a living from that. It could be a hobby to make some fun money on the side but I'd hate to have to try to pay the billls off selling niche market stuff like that.
Yeah, would be tough. You'd have to charge a real premium for the hand made and Frantone brand. And a totally revamped professional website.
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube.
Agreed. Every youtuber should have that posted on the wall. Hard to come across one who hasnt complained lately how hard their life on yt is.
It saddens me that for so many enterprising, smart cookies on y/t, so many of them don't understand what comes after a boom..
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My local hackspace moved to a new location...
expenses > income
the predicted, by some, increase in income, has surprise surprise not materialised
leaving...
expenses > income
“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
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expenses > income
Technically, my business made a loss last year for the first time ever. Cash flow can be a bitch.
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ebbs and flow.. you can be building connections, infrastructure, process, (market) research gathering, that will benefit you in the future
Just because you did not make money does not mean its not useful because you might have figured out something difficult on why you did not make money because you did not understand a segment because its not intuitive. its not always the case that you need to stabilize positive cash flow on an arbitrary 1 year cycle, thats planetary alignment and not business time
don't pound on it like its a corn crop
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube.
Agreed. Every youtuber should have that posted on the wall. Hard to come across one who hasnt complained lately how hard their life on yt is.
It saddens me that for so many enterprising, smart cookies on y/t, so many of them don't understand what comes after a boom..
Yeah. I'm finding the CNBC program 'The Profit' very educational where it comes to running a retail business. Lot's of people with great ideas but some have their heads so far up their asses they can't see how to change their business from losing money to making money. And often it is just little things which make all the difference.
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube.
Agreed. Every youtuber should have that posted on the wall. Hard to come across one who hasnt complained lately how hard their life on yt is.
It saddens me that for so many enterprising, smart cookies on y/t, so many of them don't understand what comes after a boom..
Yeah. I'm finding the CNBC program 'The Profit' very educational where it comes to running a retail business. Lot's of people with great ideas but some have their heads so far up their asses they can't see how to change their business from losing money to making money. And often it is just little things which make all the difference.
You're electronics professional, cmiiw, I assume you're also fully aware that 'great ideas' in electronics doesn't mean anything. Its all about the devil, that is in the details that matter.
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I know. I always say a great idea is only worth something if you can sell it. But that is the thing with the companies they show in the TV show 'the profit'. The people often can sell their ideas but just lack the knowledge/insight of running a business. If you have some following on Youtube you obviously can sell yourself as a brand. The next step is to turn that into a revenue stream. Fran should somehow learn how to tap into that too.
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Yeah. I'm finding the CNBC program 'The Profit' very educational where it comes to running a retail business. Lot's of people with great ideas but some have their heads so far up their asses they can't see how to change their business from losing money to making money. And often it is just little things which make all the difference.
Assume anything on television has essentially zero to do with real life. Even though the show seems based on real people and companies it's cut and mangled to make an interesting show. Shows need a narrative and networks tend to create the most appealing one they can make with their footage.
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Yeah. I'm finding the CNBC program 'The Profit' very educational where it comes to running a retail business. Lot's of people with great ideas but some have their heads so far up their asses they can't see how to change their business from losing money to making money. And often it is just little things which make all the difference.
Assume anything on television has essentially zero to do with real life. Even though the show seems based on real people and companies it's cut and mangled to make an interesting show. Shows need a narrative and networks tend to create the most appealing one they can make with their footage.
For sure they choose businesses and people which make the most interesting TV (like any reality show does) so it isn't a good view on how the average American business is run. It is still interesting from an educational perspective because the extremes are highlighted.
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I think it's futile to set out to make a living on YouTube.
Agreed. Every youtuber should have that posted on the wall. Hard to come across one who hasnt complained lately how hard their life on yt is.
It saddens me that for so many enterprising, smart cookies on y/t, so many of them don't understand what comes after a boom..
Yeah. I'm finding the CNBC program 'The Profit' very educational where it comes to running a retail business. Lot's of people with great ideas but some have their heads so far up their asses they can't see how to change their business from losing money to making money. And often it is just little things which make all the difference.
It the youtuber tech-pundits that are funny. They fawn after the Zuckerburgs and Dorsy, spending the money the channel makes like drunken sailors. Then complain when the pockets are empty. If they instead funneled the bonanza cash of youtube into the 'next' youtube they'd never have to worry about cash ever again. Live the dream.
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For sure they choose businesses and people which make the most interesting TV (like any reality show does) so it isn't a good view on how the average American business is run. It is still interesting from an educational perspective because the extremes are highlighted.
They don't just pick interesting people and businesses but also produce and cut the material to represent something the base material did not. The public needs a basic story with a good guy and a villain and some production and cutting room magic ensures every episode has that. The public isn't interested in real life nuances and shades of grey. The extremes you see are propped up and outright created instead of merely observed. Television is make-believe and that includes so called "reality TV". The article below does a decent job describing how things work.
https://hackaday.com/2017/06/05/hacking-on-tv-what-you-need-to-know/
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expenses > income
Technically, my business made a loss last year for the first time ever. Cash flow can be a bitch.
That does get technical which is why having professional accountancy advice is IMHO worth every penny. Profit/Loss and cash flow... and assets/liabilities... all part of the rich creative tapestry of accounts. ;)
However, consistently spending more than your income and using that expenditure for ongoing expenses rather than asset purchases just won't work long term; not unless you win the lottery, get loads of people to GoFundYou, marry a sugar daddy, rob a bank, etc.
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For sure they choose businesses and people which make the most interesting TV (like any reality show does) so it isn't a good view on how the average American business is run. It is still interesting from an educational perspective because the extremes are highlighted.
They don't just pick interesting people and businesses but also produce and cut the material to represent something the base material did not.
This is a problem why? A clever person can still filter out the relevant bits. In one of the more recent episodes of 'the profit' they showed a company where the manager made a ton of money, didn't perform but the investor kept throwing money at it. Sure there is more to it (as usual there are two sides of the story) but the bottom line "hire people that add value to the business and fire those who don't" is still valid. And it is a good example where a business owner kept his head stuck in his ass.
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UPDATE: Eviction 3.0 :o
She has 2 months to get out. The building has been sold and the new owner I guess is not renewing any leases.
Really bad timing, as she just blew a load of money on the zero-g flight and the flight school.
Video on her Patreon channel.
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Technically, my business made a loss last year for the first time ever. Cash flow can be a bitch.
Me too! I went out and bought a new(er) pick and place machine. It ended up costing me over $7500, with accessories and repair parts. The machine at auction price was only $500, then there was shipping, a forklift rental, lots of parts needed to get it running and then feeders, lots of feeders. Details in the assembly section.
Jon
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UPDATE: Eviction 3.0 :o
She has 2 months to get out:
Really bad timing, as she just blew a load of money on the zero-g flight and the flight school.
This is nothing against Fran on a personal level, but this just has poor life choices written all over it. Given how old this thread is she has to have known this was coming for a long time. Something like a zero-G flight sounds like a blast, but it sounds expensive too, I am reasonably comfortable financially and yet I don't think it's something I would consider, certainly not if there was any uncertainty to my living situation. Sadly I have known a lot of people, some of them even quite intelligent by most measures, who just make one bad choice after another and for a long time I tried to help the ones that were close personal friends but eventually realized it was an uphill battle. Some people are just bound and determined to mismanage their lives and the only way that will ever change is if THEY make a firm commitment to change it. The number of people who are chronically short on money yet find all manner of frivolous things on which to piss away vast sums of it is mind blowing. I once dated a girl for a while who was struggling just to pay the rent, I worked on her beater car a few times to keep it going since she couldn't afford to replace it and yet she found money to get a tattoo and other non-essential stuff and of course I was the asshole for pointing this out. :palm: Call me un-caring, but I ran out of shits to give years ago and never got around to restocking.
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I like Fran, her channel, almost all what she does.
I have supported her during bad times in the past and chances are that I will help her again.
That being said, I must admit that this time will be a bit harder for me, some internal struggle to fight against. The thing is, that I can't help to find the arguments expressed by this gentleman James_s here above fairly reasonable...
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UPDATE: Eviction 3.0 :o
She has 2 months to get out:
Really bad timing, as she just blew a load of money on the zero-g flight and the flight school.
This is nothing against Fran on a personal level, but this just has poor life choices written all over it. Given how old this thread is she has to have known this was coming for a long time. Something like a zero-G flight sounds like a blast, but it sounds expensive too,
OTOH you can see it as an investment to make new content and it seems this flight was sponsored by her supporters on Patreon. The question however is what the cost versus benefit is. I don't know the exact costs but business wise it likely is a large risk. In that light Dave is pretty clever with his test equipment review, mailbag and dumpster-diving repair videos. Costs him next to nothing in purchases / materials to make.
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OTOH you can see it as an investment to make new content. The question however is what the cost versus benefit is. I don't know the exact costs but business wise it likely is a large risk. In that light Dave is pretty clever with his test equipment review, mailbag and dumpster-diving repair videos. Costs him next to nothing in materials to make.
That is a valid point, although it seems like a bit of a risky investment. There are some fascinating videos she has done, I liked the series in the Apollo DSKY, and the various esoteric display technologies are fascinating. Those sorts of topics are relatively low cost (and thus low risk) and fairly high reward in that they are interesting content.
Either way if I were in her position with regards to housing, I would put the youtube channel on the back burner and look for a job, any job that will pay the bills. There is a massive labor shortage across the USA right now. We need truck drivers, that doesn't need any kind of degree or even a whole lot of training. We need people in the trades, that usually needs an apprenticeship but you get paid. On the engineering side we need software engineers, my employer has been hiring like crazy and can't find enough senior SDEs, they can even be approved to work fully remotely if desired. Her living situation has already been discussed to death but sometimes the simple reality is that a person has to find somewhere different to live, something she has apparently been totally unwilling to do. There are numerous solutions to the problem and yet from my admittedly limited view of the saga, it appears she is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.
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I'll just leave some Swagbucks mining code (instructions in Python script comments) in the hopes that makers can use it to make a bit of profit to support her and other makers in need. I don't make much from it (about $10-15/month with an old Nexus 7 motherboard) but even 1% of her subscribers running it on their own setups would add up to a sizable amount of money. (Current subscribers is 230K, 1% of that is 2300, which would be $23000/month total!)
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UPDATE: Eviction 3.0 :o
She has 2 months to get out:
Really bad timing, as she just blew a load of money on the zero-g flight and the flight school.
This is nothing against Fran on a personal level, but this just has poor life choices written all over it. Given how old this thread is she has to have known this was coming for a long time. Something like a zero-G flight sounds like a blast, but it sounds expensive too, I am reasonably comfortable financially and yet I don't think it's something I would consider, certainly not if there was any uncertainty to my living situation. Sadly I have known a lot of people, some of them even quite intelligent by most measures, who just make one bad choice after another and for a long time I tried to help the ones that were close personal friends but eventually realized it was an uphill battle. Some people are just bound and determined to mismanage their lives and the only way that will ever change is if THEY make a firm commitment to change it. The number of people who are chronically short on money yet find all manner of frivolous things on which to piss away vast sums of it is mind blowing. I once dated a girl for a while who was struggling just to pay the rent, I worked on her beater car a few times to keep it going since she couldn't afford to replace it and yet she found money to get a tattoo and other non-essential stuff and of course I was the asshole for pointing this out. :palm: Call me un-caring, but I ran out of shits to give years ago and never got around to restocking.
I think there is a correlation with people who are musicians. Or is it starving artist? Dunno. But it does seem consistent.
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UPDATE: Eviction 3.0 :o
She has 2 months to get out:
Really bad timing, as she just blew a load of money on the zero-g flight and the flight school.
This is nothing against Fran on a personal level, but this just has poor life choices written all over it. Given how old this thread is she has to have known this was coming for a long time. Something like a zero-G flight sounds like a blast, but it sounds expensive too, I am reasonably comfortable financially and yet I don't think it's something I would consider, certainly not if there was any uncertainty to my living situation.
To be fair:
a) She didn't seem to have any uncertainty about her living situation, sounds like this building sale came out of the blue. I'm sure she would have done the flight had she had any inkling of this.
b) The Zero-G flight was also an attempt to create some content that would get some or all of the money back in ad revenue (admittedly a bit of a long shot)
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Either way if I were in her position with regards to housing, I would put the youtube channel on the back burner and look for a job, any job that will pay the bills.
If I was in the same position, the last thing I'd want to do is go look for a real job. When working for yourself for so long, it would be very hard to go back working for the man 9-5. You'd have to exhaust every possible opportunity first.
Her living situation has already been discussed to death but sometimes the simple reality is that a person has to find somewhere different to live, something she has apparently been totally unwilling to do. There are numerous solutions to the problem and yet from my admittedly limited view of the saga, it appears she is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.
I mentioned this in the Youtube comments:
You mentioned you can't get a mortgage, well, unfortunately you are going to have to try again, because that does seem the best option if you can pull it off. You can't just assume that you got rejected last time so you'll get rejected again. Knock on 100 doors if you have to, make it a full time job applying for loans until someone cracks.
Assuming that fails, option 2 would be reconsider living in the burbs somewhere. I know you said it's dangerous, but surely it's better than moving into some miserable tiny space that would be a financially self spiraling productivity killing drain.
And I know you said people will just bombard you with Zillo listings, but we care, and one of them may pay off. Once again I think a solution can potentially be crowd sourced here. 99/100 leads will not play out, but you only need that 1 that does.
She seems very set on staying in Philly, and I've tried to talk her out of that before to no avail.
If it was me I'd be on the LGBT forums (I assume there are such things) and find a smaller cheaper city that is already proven to be LGBT friendly. Philly can't be the only place she can feel safe.
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I'll just leave some Swagbucks mining code (instructions in Python script comments) in the hopes that makers can use it to make a bit of profit to support her and other makers in need. I don't make much from it (about $10-15/month with an old Nexus 7 motherboard) but even 1% of her subscribers running it on their own setups would add up to a sizable amount of money. (Current subscribers is 230K, 1% of that is 2300, which would be $23000/month total!)
Actually, that's an interesting concept. Kind of like BOINC, she could start a campaign where people donate spare processing cycles which would all add up.
In any case, her problem doesn't seem to be income or money so much at this point, she said she can afford a mortgage, the real problem is getting one.
Any rental thing is going to have her eventually back to quare one again, she needs to find a way to get a mortgage and buy a place. Someone out there must know a banker who can help her out.
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Either way if I were in her position with regards to housing, I would put the youtube channel on the back burner and look for a job, any job that will pay the bills.
If I was in the same position, the last thing I'd want to do is go look for a real job. When working for yourself for so long, it would be very hard to go back working for the man 9-5. You'd have to exhaust every possible opportunity first.
After 20 years of self employment I consider myself unemployable >:D
The main question really needs to now be after getting the commercial lease term security WRONG multiple times, clearly the lesson isn't being learned or sorted out prior to signing a contract :palm: Either Fran is hiring the wrong lawyers or worse is her own and failing at simple due diligence.
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The main question really needs to now be after getting the commercial lease term security WRONG multiple times, clearly the lesson isn't being learned or sorted out prior to signing a contract :palm: Either Fran is hiring the wrong lawyers or worse is her own and failing at simple due diligence.
Can anyone remember what her lease term was? I think its pretty close to spot on 3 years from when she moved in?
Maybe only a 3 year lease was possible on this place?
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The main question really needs to now be after getting the commercial lease term security WRONG multiple times, clearly the lesson isn't being learned or sorted out prior to signing a contract :palm: Either Fran is hiring the wrong lawyers or worse is her own and failing at simple due diligence.
Can anyone remember what her lease term was? I think its pretty close to spot on 3 years from when she moved in?
Maybe only a 3 year lease was possible on this place?
Seems we are maybe two years on from last time around on a quick check back.
Unless USA leases are written really differently to Oz it is normal and in a lot of cases now part of the initial lease to include an extension of another or even two terms providing the Tenant signs up appropriately. Typical terms in Victoria at least are 3x5's for the last two I have signed.
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Perhaps someone with more software experience could figure out how to virtualize an Android VM on a Raspberry Pi, then make a preconfigured image for Swagbucks mining with a Pi? I think if that were made, a lot more than 1% of her subscribers would run it. Theoretically, if it gets up to 5-10% or so it would be right in the territory of making enough profit to buy a house in a month or two, although at that point I would expect the difficulty to rise a lot making things hard to predict.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/virtualization-on-arm/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/virtualization-on-arm/)
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She said no bank will give her a mortgage, what about a credit union?
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She said no bank will give her a mortgage, what about a credit union?
Look at the history online alone of money issues and requests. Then add to that self employed and any other associated risks that comes with that before you even get to an actual credit history. This has been done earlier in this thread sort of to death too.
The more likely and only option for finance on a building loan will be an Angel investor of some sort but that will come with its own set of generally control type issues.
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Seems we are maybe two years on from last time around on a quick check back.
Oct 2018:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l62gc9fH2Oo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l62gc9fH2Oo)
I think she foudn the new space a few weeks after this, so basically 3 years ago.
Unless USA leases are written really differently to Oz it is normal and in a lot of cases now part of the initial lease to include an extension of another or even two terms providing the Tenant signs up appropriately. Typical terms in Victoria at least are 3x5's for the last two I have signed.
Yes, common here to have a fixed term plus options for further terms if needed. And these leases transfer to any new owner, you can't just have the owner sell the building and get booted out by the new owner.
In Fran's case maybe they had planed the leases to all lapse at this time and hence sold the building and the new owner can then boot everyone out.
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I was basing two years ago on this one :-//
Here we go again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbLNfYe8ls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqbLNfYe8ls)
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Either way if I were in her position with regards to housing, I would put the youtube channel on the back burner and look for a job, any job that will pay the bills.
If I was in the same position, the last thing I'd want to do is go look for a real job. When working for yourself for so long, it would be very hard to go back working for the man 9-5. You'd have to exhaust every possible opportunity first.
EEVblog I Feel you on that one. I've been working for myself for only 2 years now and I can't imagine going back. Then again my work experience before that was military they won't take me back haha. In all seriousness I had a really good job offer fall into my lap and it would be a really cool experience but I really love working for myself. I don't know if I will take it.
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Lifelong Philly area guy here. Horrible timing. It is an absolutely awful time right now to find housing in the Philly market. There is zero home inventory for sale. Depending upon the specific area, decent properties around here sell above asking price (offer/bidding wars) without home inspections and other common contingencies. It is beyond crazy.
Rental properties are equally nuts. We have rental properties in a bordering county to the city and we have zero problems finding tenets willing to pay above market rates.
She’s got a real mess ahead without a good solution if she wants to stay in the area.
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She seems very set on staying in Philly, and I've tried to talk her out of that before to no avail.
If it was me I'd be on the LGBT forums (I assume there are such things) and find a smaller cheaper city that is already proven to be LGBT friendly. Philly can't be the only place she can feel safe.
I have several LGBT friends, some areas are more friendly to them than others, though none of the more notable ones are known for having a low cost of living, but there are pockets of them everywhere. If someone asked me to list every place I could think of that I would associate with that culture, the entire state of PA would not even cross my mind. There are absolutely forums catering to that culture, and virtually any other subculture you could imagine. Frankly it's bizarre to me that *anyone* would consider Philadelphia to be "safe" in any sense of the word. I've never been there myself and maybe things have changed, but it at least was known for having a very high crime rate, with a lot of violent crime in particular.
Edit: Reading the post that came in while I was typing this, it sounds like maybe things have changed. Sounds a lot like Seattle in terms of exploding housing prices and scant inventory. I'm not even sure where all the people are coming from.
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EEVblog I Feel you on that one. I've been working for myself for only 2 years now and I can't imagine going back. Then again my work experience before that was military they won't take me back haha. In all seriousness I had a really good job offer fall into my lap and it would be a really cool experience but I really love working for myself. I don't know if I will take it.
Well, different strokes I guess. Personally unless I was already wealthy it would drive me nuts to be working for myself and have that uncertainty and variable income. I'm not very motivated by money on a day to day basis so without a boss to answer to I'm not sure I'd be able to stay focused on tasks that earn me money. Either that or I'd focus too much on earning money and forget to set aside time for anything else. I really like that I can go in (or in more recent times log in), do the work I'm assigned to do, sign out and the same amount of money appears in my bank account twice a month. I put in my 40 odd hours a week doing what the company asks me to do, the compensate me with money and benefits and the rest of the time is mine.
I might feel a little different if I lived somewhere where benefits like healthcare weren't typically provided by an employer. An individual will pay a fortune for health insurance, to be self employed here you'd have to earn a LOT more compared to a company that can get a group plan.
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Needs some TLC, but only $180k in west Philly for 2000sqft
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/6032-Lansdowne-Ave-Philadelphia-PA/23914193/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/6032-Lansdowne-Ave-Philadelphia-PA/23914193/)
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I might feel a little different if I lived somewhere where benefits like healthcare weren't typically provided by an employer. An individual will pay a fortune for health insurance, to be self employed here you'd have to earn a LOT more compared to a company that can get a group plan.
No one outside the US can relate to that I'm afraid. The US is nuts.
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This has Franlab written all over it!
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ/23620532/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ/23620532/)
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/A0bOsjKwUTklDwPmKloQlXCN4A8Wy5s5RSmT1lH9PCg/116/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ-003_1978_Federal_St_340192_640449-5-LargeHighDefinition.jpg)
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/1Mzwnc5prDPMnCzilwCQr7iOAP9v6FmqvkXD_EqkZfY/116/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ-020_1978_Federal_St_340192_640449-2-LargeHighDefinition.jpg)
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No one outside the US can relate to that I'm afraid. The US is nuts.
I like most things about the US but that is one aspect I'm not crazy about, but given the polarized political climate I don't expect that to change. If they do ever manage to implement some kind of universal healthcare they will find some way to completely screw it up to the point that it turns out even worse than what we have now. Whatever the case, it is what it is, a self employed person is going to need to come up with $600-$2k a month for health insurance. Companies can negotiate better rates, the larger the company, the better the chance of getting a good plan.
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This has Franlab written all over it!
That looks totally cool, and it seems like a bargain too. You couldn't buy a 1 bedroom studio condo in a run down building around here for that price.
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$79k for an almost 3000sqft place if she moves to Reading 80km out from Philly.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/)
Reading even has a local LGBT centre
https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/ (https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/)
To me that's an absolute no-brainer unless there are drive-by shooting every weekend or something.
She could probbaly crowd source the entire $79k to buy it.
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I'm addicted, I can't stop!
$148k for 3500sqft in 2 commercial spaces + apartment + garage, again only 80km away.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1217-1219-S-Main-St-Phillipsburg-NJ/24090728/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1217-1219-S-Main-St-Phillipsburg-NJ/24090728/)
(https://i.imgur.com/hlMPdv0.png)
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Edit: Reading the post that came in while I was typing this, it sounds like maybe things have changed. Sounds a lot like Seattle in terms of exploding housing prices and scant inventory. I'm not even sure where all the people are coming from.
Well it's bit late in life to be having to explain this to you, but: When a Mommy and a Daddy love each other very much ... :)
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This has Franlab written all over it!
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ/23620532/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ/23620532/)
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/A0bOsjKwUTklDwPmKloQlXCN4A8Wy5s5RSmT1lH9PCg/116/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ-003_1978_Federal_St_340192_640449-5-LargeHighDefinition.jpg)
Yeah, but I can hear anyone I know from the Northeast US going "But it's in Jersey!".
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$79k for an almost 3000sqft place if she moves to Reading 80km out from Philly.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/)
Reading even has a local LGBT centre
https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/ (https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/)
To me that's an absolute no-brainer unless there are drive-by shooting every weekend or something.
She could probbaly crowd source the entire $79k to buy it.
If you scroll down a bit there's another $45,400 in property taxes - I presume annually (James, care to offer an explanation of how property taxes work in the US?).
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$79k for an almost 3000sqft place if she moves to Reading 80km out from Philly.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/)
Reading even has a local LGBT centre
https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/ (https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/)
To me that's an absolute no-brainer unless there are drive-by shooting every weekend or something.
She could probbaly crowd source the entire $79k to buy it.
If you scroll down a bit there's another $45,400 in property taxes - I presume annually (James, care to offer an explanation of how property taxes work in the US?).
:wtf: for a property valued at $80k? How is that even possible?
I knew property taxes are a PITA in the US, and many people move states beceause of it, but I thought like 10% was considerd very high?
New Jersey one would likely be the state average of 2.4%?
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This has Franlab written all over it!
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ/23620532/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ/23620532/)
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/A0bOsjKwUTklDwPmKloQlXCN4A8Wy5s5RSmT1lH9PCg/116/1978-Federal-St-Camden-NJ-003_1978_Federal_St_340192_640449-5-LargeHighDefinition.jpg)
Yeah, but I can hear anyone I know from the Northeast US going "But it's in Jersey!".
In any case it seems that one is under contract. I really like the other one in Jersey.
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:wtf: for a property valued at $80k? How is that even possible?
I knew property taxes are a PITA in the US, and many people move states beceause of it, but I thought like 10% was considerd very high?
New Jersey one would likely be the state average of 2.4%?
Kind of why I appealed to James for some local knowledge because I haven't a clue how that works. For all I know that assessment could represent a one time purchase tax, an annual tax, or a tax levied every 5/10 years. It's the kind of thing that you're expected to understand before you read the listings and is opaque to "furriners" like thee and me.
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Property taxes can be insane in some places. Not any better here in Canada. Our cinema is for sale for $1 but taxes are showing as 50k/year. My guess is with covid they lost so much money and owe backtaxes so they just want to get rid of the building and buyer probably has to pay the taxes. The only logical thing I can see happen is the building gets converted to housing. Taxes in my city go up each year too which is insane. Recently bough 40 acres in an unorganized township as I know I won't be able to afford to stay in my house forever and I want more land. Unorganized townships don't require permits or any of that BS either which is nice and taxes are around $100/year instead of like $5000+ and continuously going up.
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Either way if I were in her position with regards to housing, I would put the youtube channel on the back burner and look for a job, any job that will pay the bills.
If I was in the same position, the last thing I'd want to do is go look for a real job. When working for yourself for so long, it would be very hard to go back working for the man 9-5. You'd have to exhaust every possible opportunity first.
And yet getting a real job (even if it is part-time) is the sensible thing to do if being self employed no longer pays the bills. Beats poverty or even living on the street. There is this movie with Will Smith called 'The Pursuit of Happyness' where the main character keeps on chasing his dreams and destroys his family in the process. Ofcourse this is fiction (in the very end he succeeds) but for me this movie has a clear message: get your head out of your ass and be realistic!
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And yet getting a real job (even if it is part-time) is the sensible thing to do if being self employed no longer pays the bills.
The thing is her income does seem to be paying the bills, and she implied it's enough to pay a mortgage. The problem is not being able to get a mortage and "get ahead" of the mouse wheel that is renting.
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$79k for an almost 3000sqft place if she moves to Reading 80km out from Philly.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/)
Reading even has a local LGBT centre
https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/ (https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/)
To me that's an absolute no-brainer unless there are drive-by shooting every weekend or something.
She could probbaly crowd source the entire $79k to buy it.
If you scroll down a bit there's another $45,400 in property taxes - I presume annually (James, care to offer an explanation of how property taxes work in the US?).
:wtf: for a property valued at $80k? How is that even possible?
I knew property taxes are a PITA in the US, and many people move states beceause of it, but I thought like 10% was considerd very high?
New Jersey one would likely be the state average of 2.4%?
I think you're confusing yourself with the word "assessment", probably because of usage differences on your sides of the pond. In this case, it refers to what the property is currently assessed (=valued) at (land+improvements), for tax purposes. However, a sale usually generates an automatic reassessment to the purchase price, so it's a moot point for the buyer. Worth noting that New Jersey is one of the highest property tax states in the US. Significantly higher than Pennsylvania anyway.
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And yet getting a real job (even if it is part-time) is the sensible thing to do if being self employed no longer pays the bills.
The thing is her income does seem to be paying the bills, and she implied it's enough to pay a mortgage.
But up to what extend? It also looks like Fran hasn't been able to save up for a downpayment. I'm also not convinced that it is impossible for her to get a mortgage. Likely she is presenting her income the wrong way to banks; as if it she is not running a business but messing around a bit with Youtube and Patreon. In the end all banks care about is that you have a steady income from an activity you are serious about.
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We are arguing a lost case here. If the person is that stabborn just leave her alone. And people should stop trying to feed the dead horse by offering their spare change.
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:wtf: for a property valued at $80k? How is that even possible?
I knew property taxes are a PITA in the US, and many people move states beceause of it, but I thought like 10% was considerd very high?
That is the current tax assessment (value) that the annual tax is based on. The actual tax would probably be 2-3% of that, which is on the high side. California would be ~1%, but the values are much, much higher. 10% property tax would cause a rebellion!
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I'm also not convinced that it is impossible for her to get a mortgage. Likely she is presenting her income the wrong way to banks; as if it she is not running a business but messing around a bit with Youtube and Patreon. In the end all banks care about is that you have a steady income from an activity you are serious about.
Actually it can be quite difficult here for the self-employed. It isn't just a matter of a banker willing to listen and use some common sense--most affordble lending programs have pretty rigid requirements due to government regulation and investtor demand. For a purchase of a mixed-use property, she is probably excluded from any residential mortgage program and would need to have a 40% down payment, then pay an interest rate 3-4% higher than a regular residential mortgage, all at an amortization rate of 20 years or less and often on 'balloon' terms, where the loan is amortized for 20 years, but is actually due in 5--so you need to refinance every 5 years.
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It's the same everywhere. If you're a "standard issue" employee with a steady income and a good credit record, you'll get a mortgage (10 years fixed interest rate) for reasonable conditions. Especially with your house as a safety. Even better if you're state employed. Self-employed is a real issue. Even if you have 50 employees and turn over a million each year, banks are going to add a premium to cover their risks. A sketchy setup like FranLab doesn't stand a chance, unless you're desperate and ready to accept completely unreasonable conditions. Hasn't gotten easier after the Lehman Brothers defaulted.
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I'm also not convinced that it is impossible for her to get a mortgage. Likely she is presenting her income the wrong way to banks; as if it she is not running a business but messing around a bit with Youtube and Patreon. In the end all banks care about is that you have a steady income from an activity you are serious about.
Actually it can be quite difficult here for the self-employed. It isn't just a matter of a banker willing to listen and use some common sense--most affordble lending programs have pretty rigid requirements due to government regulation and investtor demand. For a purchase of a mixed-use property, she is probably excluded from any residential mortgage program and would need to have a 40% down payment, then pay an interest rate 3-4% higher than a regular residential mortgage, all at an amortization rate of 20 years or less and often on 'balloon' terms, where the loan is amortized for 20 years, but is actually due in 5--so you need to refinance every 5 years.
Probably, but an easy way around is to buy a residential property with a big garage / shed. Plenty of companies working from garages / sheds.
It's the same everywhere. If you're a "standard issue" employee with a steady income and a good credit record, you'll get a mortgage (10 years fixed interest rate) for reasonable conditions. Especially with your house as a safety. Even better if you're state employed. Self-employed is a real issue. Even if you have 50 employees and turn over a million each year, banks are going to add a premium to cover their risks. A sketchy setup like FranLab doesn't stand a chance, unless you're desperate and ready to accept completely unreasonable conditions. Hasn't gotten easier after the Lehman Brothers defaulted.
That is nonsense. I have refinanced my mortgage last year and all I had to do was prove that I had a steady income during the last 3 years. A quick Google reveals that the US is more or less the same.
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Well, if you say so. I've been through this in 2011 when we built our house. You mentioned that you "refinanced" your mortgage, so clearly the proof of income wasn't the only thing that worked for you.
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She seems very set on staying in Philly, and I've tried to talk her out of that before to no avail.
If it was me I'd be on the LGBT forums (I assume there are such things) and find a smaller cheaper city that is already proven to be LGBT friendly. Philly can't be the only place she can feel safe.
Frisco is also a good place for that, but housing prices out here are insane compared to most of the country.
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Well, if you say so. I've been through this in 2011 when we built our house. You mentioned that you "refinanced" your mortgage, so clearly the proof of income wasn't the only thing that worked for you.
I went to a different bank where I wasn't a customer. So basically an entirely new mortgage for a new customer. Ofcourse it is easier to finance an existing house compared to one that needs to be built. I also didn't have to finance 100% of the current value. Alternatively; having money to put a significant downpayment on a house certainly helps to get a mortgage.
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A quick Google reveals that the US is more or less the same.
::)
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If you scroll down a bit there's another $45,400 in property taxes - I presume annually (James, care to offer an explanation of how property taxes work in the US?).
They're based on the value of the property, so in my case my property taxes have been going up by leaps and bounds over the past 10 years, I honestly don't understand why people get so excited about the value of their home increasing, it's only wealth on paper unless you're able to sell it and live somewhere cheaper.
Anyway it's never a situation I've been in, but I believe a property can come with back-taxes owed on it, so for example if someone doesn't pay their property taxes for one reason or another and they die or skip town, the tax bill is still tied to the property and becomes the responsibility of the next owner. Again not a situation I've been in but that's how I recall it being explained. After my dad died we found out he had made an error and owed over $20k in federal taxes which were still owed even though he was no longer around to pay them. Uncle Sam gets his cut one way or another.
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Well it's bit late in life to be having to explain this to you, but: When a Mommy and a Daddy love each other very much ... :)
LOL :-DD
I know where people come from in that sense, but that doesn't explain the massive influx in just the past 20 years or so, or the equally massive increase in housing prices. From the data I've seen, actual population growth has slowed considerably, although still far from enough. Having grown up in this region I'm seriously contemplating leaving once I can retire. I love the climate and geography but I'm suffocating under the masses of people and really miss the days when there was more green open space and I could actually enjoy driving somewhere and not get caught in gridlock even at odd hours of the day and night.
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It's the same everywhere. If you're a "standard issue" employee with a steady income and a good credit record, you'll get a mortgage (10 years fixed interest rate) for reasonable conditions. Especially with your house as a safety. Even better if you're state employed. Self-employed is a real issue. Even if you have 50 employees and turn over a million each year, banks are going to add a premium to cover their risks. A sketchy setup like FranLab doesn't stand a chance, unless you're desperate and ready to accept completely unreasonable conditions. Hasn't gotten easier after the Lehman Brothers defaulted.
I can remeber getting our first place. We were DINKY (Double Income No Kids), both with professional jobs. Every bank said they would loan us over $1M no questions asked (that was huge back then), no haggling or anal probing.
Forward to the Youtube era when we refinanced and practically owned our home, just wanted an 80% line of credit. None of the main banks would touch a "self employed" person, had to go to a smaller place through a broker and get analy probed. Credit card with a $20,000 limit even though we had a 20 year track record of paying it off in full every month, nope, that will stop you getting the loan, drop it to $10k limit and we can talk. No amount of cash in the bank or savings history mattered, they simply assumed you were going blow it all on Lambo's.
At the same time DINKY relatives with normal jobs were handed money like candy.
Self employed sucks, and I can testify that the income coming from Patreon donations matters a lot. In fact I'm sure Fran is right when she says they class her as unemployed.
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But up to what extend? It also looks like Fran hasn't been able to save up for a downpayment. I'm also not convinced that it is impossible for her to get a mortgage. Likely she is presenting her income the wrong way to banks; as if it she is not running a business but messing around a bit with Youtube and Patreon. In the end all banks care about is that you have a steady income from an activity you are serious about.
I can testify to the opposite, she is right when she says they want to know the source of the income. I have been speciicaly told that Patreon and other donation income, and even Youtueb ad revenue is not counted.
Doesn't mean there isn't a bank or credit union out there that can help, but the struggle is real.
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FYI, I have just spoken to Fran and it's Philly or bust for reasons I won't go into.
She did say in the video she can afford a mortgage, so I presume she has done the numbers on a place, but I'm not sure I see how she can afford that amount of space in Philly.
She'll be lucky if she can find another space big enough at the current rent, which I think is the most likely outcome here, back on the rent wheel :(
Speaking of the rent wheel, I've had a video on the cards for while about rent vs buy, might have to do that. It was actually in response to a Louis Rossmann video.
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Youtueb ad revenue is not counted.
But the us treasury is quick to tax it ,even if your not a us citizen
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FYI, I have just spoken to Fran and it's Philly or bust for reasons I won't go into.
She did say in the video she can afford a mortgage, so I presume she has done the numbers on a place, but I'm not sure I see how she can afford that amount of space in Philly.
She'll be lucky if she can find another space big enough at the current rent, which I think is the most likely outcome here, back on the rent wheel
Lots of people don't want to pack up and move to the middle of nowhere to save a buck. And nobody wants to move to Camden....
Forget a mortgage, she may have enough trouble getting landlords to rent to an unconventional business. Here the typical light industrial condos are full right now except for the crappy ones, and if they do happen to have an odd unit available here or there, they want full financials and so forth just for a crummy glorified storage unit.
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FYI, I have just spoken to Fran and it's Philly or bust for reasons I won't go into.
She did say in the video she can afford a mortgage, so I presume she has done the numbers on a place, but I'm not sure I see how she can afford that amount of space in Philly.
She'll be lucky if she can find another space big enough at the current rent, which I think is the most likely outcome here, back on the rent wheel
Lots of people don't want to pack up and move to the middle of nowhere to save a buck. And nobody wants to move to Camden....
Forget a mortgage, she may have enough trouble getting landlords to rent to an unconventional business. Here the typical light industrial condos are full right now except for the crappy ones, and if they do happen to have an odd unit available here or there, they want full financials and so forth just for a crummy glorified storage unit.
When your back is up against the wall, sometimes you have to make big changes. THis is not just about saving a buck, it's about keeping what she loves.
She is single, works for herself from her own space, and AFAIK doesn't have any major family ties to Philly. Technically there is nothing stopping her buying a cheap place outside of Philly, she could probably even crowd fund the entire place, or maybe half of it for a desposit. But unfortunately she has completely ruled that out. She has explained her reasoning to me, but I'm convinced the reasoning is sound. Having said, it's easy to say that not being in someone else's position.
Many people have asked me why I don't move into a bigger home and consolidate my home and lab. And I think I have sound reasoning, it's because of my kids (mostly) and my wife. If it was just me, it would certainly be an option.
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I just watch the video again and realised that she currently has 4 spaces. The home/lab, the factory, and two storage spaces.
She is just being booted out of the home/lab, so the problem seems to be getting another live/work space big enough. And as she said in the video, those places are all vanishing from Philly.
I think the factory might be a co-working space, so she proably has friends and a community there she doesn't want to leave, so that's fair enough.
I think even if she bought a place in Philly, she'd still be renting the factory and maybe the storage spaces.
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It's the same everywhere. If you're a "standard issue" employee with a steady income and a good credit record, you'll get a mortgage (10 years fixed interest rate) for reasonable conditions. Especially with your house as a safety. Even better if you're state employed. Self-employed is a real issue. Even if you have 50 employees and turn over a million each year, banks are going to add a premium to cover their risks. A sketchy setup like FranLab doesn't stand a chance, unless you're desperate and ready to accept completely unreasonable conditions. Hasn't gotten easier after the Lehman Brothers defaulted.
I can remeber getting our first place. We were DINKY (Double Income No Kids), both with professional jobs. Every bank said they would loan us over $1M no questions asked (that was huge back then), no haggling or anal probing.
Forward to the Youtube era when we refinanced and practically owned our home, just wanted an 80% line of credit. None of the main banks would touch a "self employed" person, had to go to a smaller place through a broker and get analy probed. Credit card with a $20,000 limit even though we had a 20 year track record of paying it off in full every month, nope, that will stop you getting the loan, drop it to $10k limit and we can talk. No amount of cash in the bank or savings history mattered, they simply assumed you were going blow it all on Lambo's.
At the same time DINKY relatives with normal jobs were handed money like candy.
Self employed sucks, and I can testify that the income coming from Patreon donations matters a lot. In fact I'm sure Fran is right when she says they class her as unemployed.
A couple of things. Sydney banks are threatening to tighten the rules drasticly yet I still see some people with jobs scoring some very worrying loans that are precarious.
As for being self employed, you have to understand the bank's standpoint. No offence but youtubers do have a nasty habit of blowing it all. I realise that it is often because of a change in y/t policy. Youtube success is like lightning and you won't convince the bank that you'll rebuild everything instantly on another platform. Unlike a regular job that even if you're fired, you could have a new job within a day and the bank wouldn't be any the wiser in regards to repayments.
I was self employed, so I'm not attacking you.
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It's the same everywhere. If you're a "standard issue" employee with a steady income and a good credit record, you'll get a mortgage (10 years fixed interest rate) for reasonable conditions. Especially with your house as a safety. Even better if you're state employed. Self-employed is a real issue. Even if you have 50 employees and turn over a million each year, banks are going to add a premium to cover their risks. A sketchy setup like FranLab doesn't stand a chance, unless you're desperate and ready to accept completely unreasonable conditions. Hasn't gotten easier after the Lehman Brothers defaulted.
I can remeber getting our first place. We were DINKY (Double Income No Kids), both with professional jobs. Every bank said they would loan us over $1M no questions asked (that was huge back then), no haggling or anal probing.
Forward to the Youtube era when we refinanced and practically owned our home, just wanted an 80% line of credit. None of the main banks would touch a "self employed" person, had to go to a smaller place through a broker and get analy probed. Credit card with a $20,000 limit even though we had a 20 year track record of paying it off in full every month, nope, that will stop you getting the loan, drop it to $10k limit and we can talk. No amount of cash in the bank or savings history mattered
That is normal. There simply is a limit to what you can lend and a credit card (and other credit facilities) typically take away a large sum (much larger than the limit) of what you can lend as a mortgage. Getting a loan is all about cash flow in and cash flow out. If your new mortgage combined with existing loans / lines of credit can result in a larger cash flow going out, then the lender won't give it to you. Money in the bank doesn't matter because they have to assume you are going to spend it all. Why would you need the loan if you have money to spend?
A way around Youtube / Patreon is likely to form a company that receives the money and then get paid by that company. When I refinanced my mortgage (being 100% self employed!) the bank didn't ask how I made the money. They just wanted the tax records to show a steady income for the past couple of years.
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If you want a lesson in how not to do real estate look up Nile Niami. He built a house worth(?) 500 Million in LA, a modern day playboy mansion. Half way through building, metoo happened. Then the coof hit.
Anyway. Now they think the house would sell for pennys on the dollar and the guy is selling gold-plated credit cards.
The other lesson to be learned is don't do coke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H2xmRseiDw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H2xmRseiDw)
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That is normal. There simply is a limit to what you can lend and a credit card (and other credit facilities) typically take away a large sum (much larger than the limit) of what you can lend as a mortgage. Getting a loan is all about cash flow in and cash flow out.
There's another example where rules vary a bit globally--and even from state to state in the US. All of that would be incorrect in a US context. High but unused credit lines are almost always a help, not a hindrance in obtaining credit. And getting a loan, especially residential, is about satisfying the specific requirements of the ultimate underwriter of the loan, which is usually not the bank itself.
Amusingly I'm actually stuck in that it would be inconvenient and difficult to refinance the small remaining balance on our house due to a quirk of how it was financed in the first place. Fortunately I'm only losing out on a miniscule savings since rates were astonishingly low when we bought in 2012. But there are always snags that can hamper any financing process, and here for the self-employed or business owner, those snags are a whole bramble bush.
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OTOH you can see it as an investment to make new content. The question however is what the cost versus benefit is. I don't know the exact costs but business wise it likely is a large risk. In that light Dave is pretty clever with his test equipment review, mailbag and dumpster-diving repair videos. Costs him next to nothing in materials to make.
That is a valid point, although it seems like a bit of a risky investment. There are some fascinating videos she has done, I liked the series in the Apollo DSKY, and the various esoteric display technologies are fascinating. Those sorts of topics are relatively low cost (and thus low risk) and fairly high reward in that they are interesting content.
Either way if I were in her position with regards to housing, I would put the youtube channel on the back burner and look for a job, any job that will pay the bills. There is a massive labor shortage across the USA right now. We need truck drivers, that doesn't need any kind of degree or even a whole lot of training. We need people in the trades, that usually needs an apprenticeship but you get paid. On the engineering side we need software engineers, my employer has been hiring like crazy and can't find enough senior SDEs, they can even be approved to work fully remotely if desired. Her living situation has already been discussed to death but sometimes the simple reality is that a person has to find somewhere different to live, something she has apparently been totally unwilling to do. There are numerous solutions to the problem and yet from my admittedly limited view of the saga, it appears she is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results.
When you dig, the wages they want these workers at are unrealistic. A lot of these alleged jobs are not good jobs at all. They are not even real jobs where they intend to hire people. They just want to document how they failed at hiring Americans. Its for some work visa form.
If Fran looks for work judging by where she is, a signifcant number of advertised jobs will be these fake jobs. As a trans person my hunch is that that fact also is going to limit her job opportunities significantly, here in the tradition bound East Coast. I would hope that wouldnt be the case but I suspect it might be. Does she have transportation? if she doesnt own a car, maybe she should buy a motor scooter.
If she buys a car, It needs to be reliable.
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That is normal. There simply is a limit to what you can lend and a credit card (and other credit facilities) typically take away a large sum (much larger than the limit) of what you can lend as a mortgage. Getting a loan is all about cash flow in and cash flow out.
There's another example where rules vary a bit globally--and even from state to state in the US. All of that would be incorrect in a US context. High but unused credit lines are almost always a help, not a hindrance in obtaining credit.
That is not the issue. The question is: do you get to keep those high credit lines together with the mortgage? I would be highly surprised if that is the case because it would allow you to accumulate more outgoing expenses than your income can support.
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That is not the issue. The question is: do you get to keep those high credit lines together with the mortgage? I would be highly surprised if that is the case because it would allow you to accumulate more outgoing expenses than your income can support.
Yes, they're generally a non-issue. I've never heard of anyone being asked to close or reduce credit card lines in order to get a mortgage--or another credit line.
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$79k for an almost 3000sqft place if she moves to Reading 80km out from Philly.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1262-Cotton-St-Reading-PA/23133224/)
Reading even has a local LGBT centre
https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/ (https://www.lgbtcenterofreading.com/)
To me that's an absolute no-brainer unless there are drive-by shooting every weekend or something.
She could probbaly crowd source the entire $79k to buy it.
If you scroll down a bit there's another $45,400 in property taxes - I presume annually (James, care to offer an explanation of how property taxes work in the US?).
:wtf: for a property valued at $80k? How is that even possible?
I knew property taxes are a PITA in the US, and many people move states beceause of it, but I thought like 10% was considerd very high?
New Jersey one would likely be the state average of 2.4%?
I think you're confusing yourself with the word "assessment", probably because of usage differences on your sides of the pond. In this case, it refers to what the property is currently assessed (=valued) at (land+improvements), for tax purposes. However, a sale usually generates an automatic reassessment to the purchase price, so it's a moot point for the buyer. Worth noting that New Jersey is one of the highest property tax states in the US. Significantly higher than Pennsylvania anyway.
Right. Just to clarify, for that particular property, the annual taxes to be paid by the owner are about $2000.
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That is not the issue. The question is: do you get to keep those high credit lines together with the mortgage? I would be highly surprised if that is the case because it would allow you to accumulate more outgoing expenses than your income can support.
Yes, they're generally a non-issue. I've never heard of anyone being asked to close or reduce credit card lines in order to get a mortgage--or another credit line. They'll let you have as much rope as you want. I have an absurd amount of credit card credit line that stays unused. OTOH, it is common for cash-out refinancing to demand that you pay down actual debts on credit lines.
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As for being self employed, you have to understand the bank's standpoint. No offence but youtubers do have a nasty habit of blowing it all. I realise that it is often because of a change in y/t policy. Youtube success is like lightning and you won't convince the bank that you'll rebuild everything instantly on another platform. Unlike a regular job that even if you're fired, you could have a new job within a day and the bank wouldn't be any the wiser in regards to repayments.
Yes, I'm not really compaining, I'm just saying it is a big problem, and that Fran is right.
The problem I have is that the fear on the banks side is (supposedly) that you can't repay your loan if that income falls through, but they will refuse to consider your other liquid assets like cash, gold, crypto (maybe fair enough), stocks (except dividend paying ones which is income) etc. It's bullshit. I could have millions in liquid cash and gold savings, yet I would find it hard to get a $500k loan if Youtube was my only income.
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That is normal. There simply is a limit to what you can lend and a credit card (and other credit facilities) typically take away a large sum (much larger than the limit) of what you can lend as a mortgage. Getting a loan is all about cash flow in and cash flow out.
There's another example where rules vary a bit globally--and even from state to state in the US. All of that would be incorrect in a US context. High but unused credit lines are almost always a help, not a hindrance in obtaining credit.
That is not the issue. The question is: do you get to keep those high credit lines together with the mortgage? I would be highly surprised if that is the case because it would allow you to accumulate more outgoing expenses than your income can support.
The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
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There's another example where rules vary a bit globally--and even from state to state in the US. All of that would be incorrect in a US context. High but unused credit lines are almost always a help, not a hindrance in obtaining credit.
The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
No, I lived in the US for many years, having credit & using it to maintain a credit history was vital to getting a loan, renting an apartment, or buying a house.
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As for being self employed, you have to understand the bank's standpoint. No offence but youtubers do have a nasty habit of blowing it all. I realise that it is often because of a change in y/t policy. Youtube success is like lightning and you won't convince the bank that you'll rebuild everything instantly on another platform. Unlike a regular job that even if you're fired, you could have a new job within a day and the bank wouldn't be any the wiser in regards to repayments.
Yes, I'm not really compaining, I'm just saying it is a big problem, and that Fran is right.
The problem I have is that the fear on the banks side is (supposedly) that you can't repay your loan if that income falls through, but they will refuse to consider your other liquid assets like cash, gold, crypto (maybe fair enough), stocks (except dividend paying ones which is income) etc. It's bullshit. I could have millions in liquid cash and gold savings, yet I would find it hard to get a $500k loan if Youtube was my only income.
Yeh. That's the bank manager's predicament. Why do you need to go into debt when you have so much equity or indeed liquid assets? That kind of thinking is reserved for a different income class to you and me. :D
You have to demonstrate that you can make money in your sleep and not just ride a bull market. When gauging repayment ability, the capital you have has no bearing because who knows how you acquired said capital: inheritance, insurance payout, stock market jackpot. There is a different type of investor you need to back you in this field. Banks aren't interested, as we know.
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The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
That is definitely not the American Way! In the US system, your credit score--the very first thing lenders look at to classify you--will be the highest if you have 18-20 open credit cards but only use a small proportion of the credit lines. The more accounts open and the longer the average ages of those accounts, the higher the score (assuming you make each and every payment on time). Income, assets and money in the bank--not a factor. Your score will determine not only whether you get a loan, but also whether you can rent an apartment, how much you pay for insurance and in some cases even whether you get a job. The last two are prohibited by law here in California, but the issue plagues people with credit issues elsewhere in the country.
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The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
That is definitely not the American Way! In the US system, your credit score--the very first thing lenders look at to classify you--will be the highest if you have 18-20 open credit cards but only use a small proportion of the credit lines. The more accounts open and the longer the average ages of those accounts, the higher the score (assuming you make each and every payment on time). Income, assets and money in the bank--not a factor. Your score will determine not only whether you get a loan, but also whether you can rent an apartment, how much you pay for insurance and in some cases even whether you get a job. The last two are prohibited by law here in California, but the issue plagues people with credit issues elsewhere in the country.
Sometimes here, the lender will encourage you during the application process of a loan to clip the credit limit on a credit card or perhaps even close accounts on all but one. Credit cards have a minimum payment due per month (if you don't wish to pay the full amount). With the loan, those minimum amounts calculated on the max credit limit and that figure is gets deducted from your income figure upon application. It's a waste of time applying for a loan if you have excessive credit card debt.
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With the loan, those minimum amounts calculated on the max credit limit and that figure is gets deducted from your income figure upon application.
That does make some sort of sense, but nobody does that calculation here. If I maxed out all my credit cards the minimum payments would be more than double my mortgage. As I said, they'll let you have all the rope you want.
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That is normal. There simply is a limit to what you can lend and a credit card (and other credit facilities) typically take away a large sum (much larger than the limit) of what you can lend as a mortgage. Getting a loan is all about cash flow in and cash flow out.
There's another example where rules vary a bit globally--and even from state to state in the US. All of that would be incorrect in a US context. High but unused credit lines are almost always a help, not a hindrance in obtaining credit.
That is not the issue. The question is: do you get to keep those high credit lines together with the mortgage? I would be highly surprised if that is the case because it would allow you to accumulate more outgoing expenses than your income can support.
The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
That is pretty much the same over over here. To me it is perfectly logical; in the end it is to make sure people can actually pay back the money they borrow. In the NL there is a central register where all loans & credits are registered with the amount and whether you are paying on time or not. But you can only get negative points, no positive points.
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FYI, I have just spoken to Fran and it's Philly or bust for reasons I won't go into.
Lots of people don't want to pack up and move to the middle of nowhere to save a buck. And nobody wants to move to Camden....
(...)
When your back is up against the wall, sometimes you have to make big changes. THis is not just about saving a buck, it's about keeping what she loves.
Well, I wish all the best for her, but it seems this scenario seems to be configuring itself to be a repeat of what I said two years ago, which is also expressed in james_s' (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg3747940/#msg3747940) and rodcastler's (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg3747958/#msg3747958) previous posts.
I only hope she does not burn her credibility for new supporters and stretch the patience of her existing ones by having yet another unfallible plan that pretty much resembles the former one. The supporters may feel they are giving money to someone that is not making reasonable monetary decisions and the risk of a steep drop in income is quite real.
Sure, she mentioned not spawning a gofundme this time, but at a certain point some financial plan will have to be put in place to escape this. Ownership and less expensive location are the options with the longest roadmap. The country changed a lot in the past few years w.r.t. acceptance, thus that would be a venue to be revisited.
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Lots of people don't want to pack up and move to the middle of nowhere to save a buck. And nobody wants to move to Camden....
Forget a mortgage, she may have enough trouble getting landlords to rent to an unconventional business. Here the typical light industrial condos are full right now except for the crappy ones, and if they do happen to have an odd unit available here or there, they want full financials and so forth just for a crummy glorified storage unit.
This is not a matter of want, we are talking basic survival and having a roof over one's head. When you need a place to live, you do what you have to do. If that means packing up and moving to the middle of nowhere so be it. It doesn't have to be a permanent solution, once you own a property it is much easier to buy a different property because you now have that asset that hopefully has a bit of equity. Lots of people buy a home, live in it for a year or two and then sell it and buy a nicer home. Fran works from home, she can live anywhere that has broadband. From the sound of things though this is just going to repeat and this thread will start up again with the same discussion in a year or two. I've seen this whole thing play out similarly before with other people, offer them a handful of viable options but they invent reasons why none of them will work and just keep trying the same thing over and over hoping for different results. Rent something affordable in a region that is rapidly gentrifying and this is going to be the result, every time.
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When you dig, the wages they want these workers at are unrealistic. A lot of these alleged jobs are not good jobs at all. They are not even real jobs where they intend to hire people. They just want to document how they failed at hiring Americans. Its for some work visa form.
If Fran looks for work judging by where she is, a signifcant number of advertised jobs will be these fake jobs. As a trans person my hunch is that that fact also is going to limit her job opportunities significantly, here in the tradition bound East Coast. I would hope that wouldnt be the case but I suspect it might be. Does she have transportation? if she doesnt own a car, maybe she should buy a motor scooter.
If she buys a car, It needs to be reliable.
That was certainly the case for a while, but right now there are genuine shortages. A friend of mine is a carpenter working for a company that remodels houses and he's up to his eyeballs in work and they can't find enough people. I work in the software industry and we have been interviewing like crazy and can't find enough mid and senior level software engineers, I've been interviewing at least 2 candidates a week for several weeks now and my team is only one of several that has been doing it. We have made offers to several candidates only to have them already accept a job somewhere else and right now we are pretty much treading water, hiring just enough people to fill in for people who departed for greener pastures. My partner manages an animal hospital and she has been interviewing regularly and can't find enough veterinarians or techs. Friends of mine own a machine shop and finally resorted to hiring a highschool kid to do some assembly work, $16/hr is not fantastic money around here but it's a job that anyone can do with minimal training. A few weeks ago I was at Home Depot and it took 45 minutes to find someone who could cut and thread a piece of iron pipe, they said they were short staffed and couldn't find enough help. There are jobs to be had right now, some of them better than others, but they are available.
I don't see the relevance of her being trans, frankly I didn't even know she was until it was mentioned here a while back, certainly it isn't something an employer is going to ask about.
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The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
I have a credit card only for the layer of security it provides. If I buy something online and the number gets stolen and used for fraudulent purchases, which has happened to me twice, I simply call them and report the fraud and I don't have to pay the bill. If the same happens to a debit card as happened to a friend of mine, you can still get the money back eventually, but only once the investigation is completed. They drained his bank account and he only realized his card number had been stolen when he tried to buy lunch and the card was declined. This was over 10 years ago so it's possible things are different now, I don't know.
When I bought my house 16 years ago I don't recall my credit card being a factor one way or the other, I've always paid it off in full every month with exception of once or twice when I simply forgot.
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Well managed credit cards (i.e. where you carry a debt of max 25% of your overall credit limit or less) are actually a boost to your credit score.
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Every time I see this thread appear at the top I think it could not be good news before looking.
UPDATE: Eviction 3.0 :o
She has 2 months to get out:
I didn't know she was in trouble again with the building be sold for renovations.
I read today in the UK that some flat leaseholders? are looking to go bankrupt with being charged for the removal and replacement of fire Grenfell style fire prone cladding that they had no choice in and in some cases costing more than half of what flats were brought for.
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Lots of people don't want to pack up and move to the middle of nowhere to save a buck. And nobody wants to move to Camden....
Forget a mortgage, she may have enough trouble getting landlords to rent to an unconventional business. Here the typical light industrial condos are full right now except for the crappy ones, and if they do happen to have an odd unit available here or there, they want full financials and so forth just for a crummy glorified storage unit.
This is not a matter of want, we are talking basic survival and having a roof over one's head. When you need a place to live, you do what you have to do. If that means packing up and moving to the middle of nowhere so be it. It doesn't have to be a permanent solution, once you own a property it is much easier to buy a different property because you now have that asset that hopefully has a bit of equity. Lots of people buy a home, live in it for a year or two and then sell it and buy a nicer home. Fran works from home, she can live anywhere that has broadband. From the sound of things though this is just going to repeat and this thread will start up again with the same discussion in a year or two. I've seen this whole thing play out similarly before with other people, offer them a handful of viable options but they invent reasons why none of them will work and just keep trying the same thing over and over hoping for different results. Rent something affordable in a region that is rapidly gentrifying and this is going to be the result, every time.
In Canada, you don't even need to sell the first house to get a 2nd house. You leverage the equity in the first house to get downpayment for 2nd house and you add potential rental income from first house to your income and next thing you know, you're shopping for house #3. As long as the bubble keeps growing, we'll be fine ;)
Get a house in a nice area and you can pretty much guarantee people will pay whatever rent you ask for because a lot of people just can't seem to say: "no, that's too much, I'm moving somewhere cheaper."
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Sure, she mentioned not spawning a gofundme this time, but at a certain point some financial plan will have to be put in place to escape this. Ownership and less expensive location are the options with the longest roadmap. The country changed a lot in the past few years w.r.t. acceptance, thus that would be a venue to be revisited.
Unfortunately I'm now 100% sure that's not going to happen.
Unless she can raise a crazy amount of money for a big deposit for a Philly unit, and get a mortgage, she will be stuck in the rental trap forever :(
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I don't see the relevance of her being trans
It shouldn't matter. Unfortunately it is the essential reason she is not going to move out of the city of Philly.
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The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
I have a credit card only for the layer of security it provides. If I buy something online and the number gets stolen and used for fraudulent purchases, which has happened to me twice, I simply call them and report the fraud and I don't have to pay the bill. If the same happens to a debit card as happened to a friend of mine, you can still get the money back eventually, but only once the investigation is completed. They drained his bank account and he only realized his card number had been stolen when he tried to buy lunch and the card was declined. This was over 10 years ago so it's possible things are different now, I don't know.
This.
I only ever use a debit card for cash withdrawals and very large purchases ( like a car).
If you have a credit card, it makes little sense to use a debit card for routine payments as protections are stronger with a CC ( this probably varies by country but I believe true to some extent everywhere).
In the case of fraud or dispute, the amount is frozen - worst case if the card company doesn't play ball you have the option to not pay and tell them to sue you for it.
In the case of a debit card, your bank account could be empty (or overdrawn) immediately, which is a much more serious issue and potentially a lot more hassle to deal with. Even getting hold of a real person at a bank or card company can be difficult these days.
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I basically treat my credit cards as debit cards paying them off using their app as soon as it posts. My reasons are similar to Mike mentioned above about any issues are easier dealt with if needed. My Capital One Quicksilver card adds an additional year warranty which I haven't needed to use but it comes as part of the membership. Some cards have diff perks like insurance for rental cars, % cash back bonuses, etc... I earn a small chunk of rewards cash I usually apply to whatever balance I have at the time every couple of months.
I forgot the biggest bonus for them to me is online purchases as Capital One offers a virtual credit card generator (Eno) that will generate a number for the site you are on and then you can cancel the number later if needed.
https://wallethub.com/answers/cc/capital-one-quicksilver-extended-warranty-2140670320/
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Speaking of rentals in Philly, there's a channel on youtube, 'Airbnb Automated' where Sean explains how to do rental arbitrage: rent homes and then host them as STRs (short term rentals). Sounds like he has lots of places in Philly and is considering getting out of some. Maybe he can help Fran find something, maybe in return for Fran making him some security devices.
In this video, Sean mentions regulations in Philly are changing on Apr 1, 2022. That may make it harder to host STRs which could bring some extra long term rentals to the market soon.
"The Hard Truth About Airbnb Arbitrage and WHY I may give it up"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n0wxfA435o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n0wxfA435o)
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In the case of a debit card, your bank account could be empty (or overdrawn) immediately, which is a much more serious issue and potentially a lot more hassle to deal with.
No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
Over here most regular shops don't even accept credit cards. Credit card companies do charge a high commision which in the end needs to be paid somehow by the consumers.
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Speaking of rentals in Philly, there's a channel on youtube, 'Airbnb Automated' where Sean explains how to do rental arbitrage: rent homes and then host them as STRs (short term rentals). Sounds like he has lots of places in Philly and is considering getting out of some. Maybe he can help Fran find something, maybe in return for Fran making him some security devices.
In this video, Sean mentions regulations in Philly are changing on Apr 1, 2022. That may make it harder to host STRs which could bring some extra long term rentals to the market soon.
I've sent that to Fran.
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It shouldn't matter. Unfortunately it is the essential reason she is not going to move out of the city of Philly.
Is she not aware that there are trans people in other places too? I've personally known a couple of them and have seen others around. I fail to see what is unique about Philadelphia in that respect. Like I said before, I didn't even know she was trans until somebody mentioned it here, I doubt the average person walking past on the street would notice or care.
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No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
Over here most regular shops don't even accept credit cards. Credit card companies do charge a high commision which in the end needs to be paid somehow by the consumers.
It's different in the US. I've never encountered a business that would accept debit cards but not credit cards. You can set a limit on withdrawal from an ATM machine but I don't think it applies to retail and online purchases. The fraudulent charges are covered by the bank, eventually, but you are out the money during the course of the investigation.
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It shouldn't matter. Unfortunately it is the essential reason she is not going to move out of the city of Philly.
Is she not aware that there are trans people in other places too?
She is, but I believe her reasoning is basically better the devil you know in Philly.
Unfortunately this thinking has her trapped in Philly.
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In the case of a debit card, your bank account could be empty (or overdrawn) immediately, which is a much more serious issue and potentially a lot more hassle to deal with.
No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
That is something that will differ by country and bank. I've twice bought cars for >£10K on a debt card with no check or verification from the bank - just normal chip & PIN.
Over here most regular shops don't even accept credit cards. Credit card companies do charge a high commission which in the end needs to be paid somehow by the consumers.
I've never seen that in the UK in retail, only some time ago in a few higher-value business-orientated situations like factory liquidation auctions.
You do see occasional places that don't accept any cards, but that's reducing due to the cheaper options available nowadays - it's actually become more common to see places that don't take cash
The bottom line is that a credit card will give a layer of isolation from your bank account, which if nothing else buys more time to deal with any problems, more so if you have more than one card.
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No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
Over here most regular shops don't even accept credit cards. Credit card companies do charge a high commision which in the end needs to be paid somehow by the consumers.
It's different in the US. I've never encountered a business that would accept debit cards but not credit cards. You can set a limit on withdrawal from an ATM machine but I don't think it applies to retail and online purchases. The fraudulent charges are covered by the bank, eventually, but you are out the money during the course of the investigation.
It's still common for shops in Germany to refuse credit cards, some who do accept them ask for a processing fee, which means there is apparently a considerable percentage of the total going to a payment processor. SEPA debit charge is almost for free in comparison.
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Actually you can use credit cards to "earn" profit. Some banks offer so called 'cash back' credit cards which accumulate a percentage of amount spent on eligible purchases ( typically when you buy groceries, gas, and when you pay bills using that credit card). You take advantage of it by being disciplined and paying off the card balance twice a month so interest does not kick in. Then the bank pays you the accumulated cash back amount per the agreement, usually at the year end. This way i get $400-$800 every year as a Christmas gift. What not to love? ;D
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Actually you can use credit cards to "earn" profit. Some banks offer so called 'cash back' credit cards which accumulate a percentage of amount spent on eligible purchases ( typically when you buy groceries, gas, and when you pay bills using that credit card). You take advantage of it by being disciplined and paying off the card balance twice a month so interest does not kick in. Then the bank pays you the accumulated cash back amount per the agreement, usually at the year end. This way i get $400-$800 every year as a Christmas gift. What not to love? ;D
Something inside me says that you are getting your own money back with some profit deducted that goes into someone else's pocket.
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Banks want consumers to use THEIR's (that bank's ) issued cards. It is a fight for getting customers in the competitive environment. So banks come up with all sort of offers to acquire more customers. In this case the catch is certainly in the expectation that most of the customers will still carry a balance and not pay it off monthly, so the bank will still charge interest. That is why i said you have to be a disciplined cardholder to game the system.
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Actually you can use credit cards to "earn" profit. Some banks offer so called 'cash back' credit cards which accumulate a percentage of amount spent on eligible purchases ( typically when you buy groceries, gas, and when you pay bills using that credit card). You take advantage of it by being disciplined and paying off the card balance twice a month so interest does not kick in. Then the bank pays you the accumulated cash back amount per the agreement, usually at the year end. This way i get $400-$800 every year as a Christmas gift. What not to love? ;D
Something inside me says that you are getting your own money back with some profit deducted that goes into someone else's pocket.
Each time you pay with your credit card, the merchant pays the powers that be (banks, card issuer, network etc.) a “processing” fee typically a fixed amount + percentage of the transaction. I imagine the cash back comes from these fees and is intended to encourage you use a certain card and not other one.
Of course, you have to be careful and pay on time your balance in full, otherwise they’ll hit you with a late fee and start charging interest on all your balance and you’ll end up paying much more than you earned by cash back. That’s probably the other source for the funds they use to give you “cash back”.
Why would you have to pay your card twice a month though?
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You pay the same price whether you pay cash or whip out your CC. I used to redeem my CC points to get merchandise, ten years ago I got a Breville toaster oven that I still use today, of course I did have to repair it once. But the quality of the merchandise you can get with points these days is not as high so I use cash back. This year I paid part of my property taxes with cash back.
I also don't know why you'd pay twice a month. I am curious. Maybe to follow your pay cycle?
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This Thread
https://giphy.com/gifs/train-trainwreck-wreck-JYEEdjzlsb280
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Myself and most of my friends live out in the sticks, we'd all welcome her.
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I used to be Fran's frequent supporter. I even sent some extra when se asked for help last time she had to move. After that she decided to include "rainbow message" as part of her channel and I stopped supporting and unsubscribed.
Well... I was a frequent supporter for Dave too but after he stated I must be stupid bringing facts on the table, I stopped that too...
But I hope Fran gets all sorted out. What ever it takes.
A
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After that she decided to include "rainbow message" as part of her channel and I stopped supporting and unsubscribed.
That says more about you than her...
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She is, but I believe her reasoning is basically better the devil you know in Philly.
Unfortunately this thinking has her trapped in Philly.
Well you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. This pretty much just reaffirms my previous thought that this whole thing is futile and is just going to keep repeating. It's a waste of time and effort trying to help someone who has set up rigid constraints that virtually ensure failure. Within the constraints set the possible options I see are come up with a massive amount of money out of thin air, or find some other affordable place to rent again and get evicted again in a year or two when the building is sold to redevelop.
The harsh reality is that unless you own the property, it is simply not always possible to continue living in the same area forever. The area I have lived in most of my life used to be a sleepy little agricultural area that was affordable, now it's an expensive suburb with a median house price of $1.1M. If I hadn't bought my house years ago there is no way I could afford to keep living here, renting even a dumpy house today would cost way more than my mortgage payment. That's just life.
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After that she decided to include "rainbow message" as part of her channel and I stopped supporting and unsubscribed.
That says more about you than her...
You got that right because I just wrote what I did. Point of your comment was... what exactly?
On second though I did support Dave recently...
A
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2018 GoFundMe raised $44K and then the recent Zero-G $12K so it might be possible to survive based on GoFundMe's but it really doesn't look sustainable.
However FranLab YT channel subscribership has doubled in the last few years so there are the same number of new supporters as old ones...
So maybe another GoFundMe would work.
I would recommend selling stuff to raise some cash... there must be lots of interesting bits of stuff that could be flogged off to raise cash... and you cannot take it with you.
(I'm considering reducing my hoard so my executors don't have to sell or dump it)
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Speaking of rentals in Philly, there's a channel on youtube, 'Airbnb Automated' where Sean explains how to do rental arbitrage: rent homes and then host them as STRs (short term rentals). Sounds like he has lots of places in Philly and is considering getting out of some. Maybe he can help Fran find something, maybe in return for Fran making him some security devices.
In this video, Sean mentions regulations in Philly are changing on Apr 1, 2022. That may make it harder to host STRs which could bring some extra long term rentals to the market soon.
I've sent that to Fran.
Funny timing, Sean just posted a video about how he's taking on more rentals in Philly :( Says new regs might push out smaller hosts but it's not such a problem for bigger ones.
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While I understand her reasoning and agree that country or small town is probably a bad option, I don't think what she wants really exists anymore. There are other cheap (relatively speaking these days) LGBT friendly cities, but that sort of big cheap residential rental property she's after (if I'm understanding correctly) just isn't around anymore. Even Detroit and outlying cheap friendly areas (Ferndale comes to mind) are getting expensive, rebuilt/remodeled, and gentrified in a hurry, and has been for a decade.
She's going to have to figure out some way to buy something eventually (shell corp to make her income look more bank respected?), and/or learn to operate out of a house, owned or rented. You just can't go out and get a cheap loft or bigass historical apartment anymore, they were a product of history, and now are becoming history themselves. It sucks, but it is what it is.
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IMO, there are people around us that will make choices that we view as foolish, impracticable or worse. We can only express our views in a respectful way and then let it go. It does not matter if we believe the behavior is misguided, misinformed or result in a worse outcome had they made a different decision. So long as they will not be physically harmed, or harm themselves as a result of their decisions, there is little to nothing we can realistically do.
So long as people continue to support her financially, she’s free to do whatever it is that she desires. Should that funding dry up, then she might be forced to re-think her approach but until something changes, I sincerely doubt anyone is going to change her desired path, regardless how unobtainable it may appear to us to be.
Someone dropping support is not wanting to support the behavior. At some point, you make the decision that you cannot or should not continue to be an enabler. Anyone with problematic family member understands this all too well.
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Myself and most of my friends live out in the sticks, we'd all welcome her.
That's the vibe here also. Fran might even enjoy the banjo music.
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There's another example where rules vary a bit globally--and even from state to state in the US. All of that would be incorrect in a US context. High but unused credit lines are almost always a help, not a hindrance in obtaining credit.
The thing is they will usually refuse to acknowledge that you have a long track history of paying off the credit card on time every month. You are actually better off having a debit card. And in fact we have just ditched our credit card in favour of a debit card for this very reason, it's one less thing they can hold against you when you apply for a loan.
No, I lived in the US for many years, having credit & using it to maintain a credit history was vital to getting a loan, renting an apartment, or buying a house.
Black Sheep is correct. I'm in the US. The whole credit-rating thing is completely weird and non-obvious. Having a large amount of "available credit" is considered a Good Thing by the data-miners like TransUnion. They like when you have "long term credit." That is: a credit card you got 20 years ago and you pay in full each month is excellent.
They don't like high usage-to-available-credit ratios. That is: if you have $10,000 available credit and you carry a balance of $5,000 a month, that's bad -- even if you pay the balance in full every month and never incur interest charges.
The hilarious thing is that it's actually quite easily for an adult to have $50,000 or more in available credit-card credit. If you carry a $5,000 monthly balance and pay it in full each month, then your usage ratio is low even though the balance might seem high and they like that.
So here in the US credit card usage history is one of the most significant parts of your "Credit Score" © ® ™ . Never cancel a credit card or close the account as that counts against you in the "time since opening the account" category. Just don't use the card. Put it in a drawer. Make a charge at a candy machine with the card once a year to keep the account active.
The absurdity: if you don't have credit cards you don't have a "credit usage history" and the dataminers use that against you. You're not credit worthy because you have never needed credit.
(I won't even get into how landlords and even employers will pull a credit report on potential lessees/hires. That's pure evil.)
On the gripping hand, all of the credit card issuers want your business because they want the swipe fees. They are willing to give "cash back" rebates on purchases. Of course those rebates come right out of the swipe fees merchants pay, and that comes right out of your pocket as the merchants add the cost of the swipe fees to the selling price of whatever you're buying. The point is that if you are disciplined enough to control your spending and ensure you pay balances in full each month, there's no benefit to paying in cash or with a debit card.
Credit-card issuers add more gravy on top -- extended warranties for purchases, insurance for rental cars, and of course the big one, which is the ability to start a charge back if a vendor is problematic.
As for debit cards linked to a checking or savings account: NEVER EVER EVER use them for purchases at point of sale in a store or online. EVER. Why? Because if the card is compromised, the Bad Guy can wipe out your checking account before you know it. Eventually you'll be made whole by the bank, but what happens if the account is cleared out then your mortgage payment hits? Bounce city, a mess to clear up, and guess what? Bouncing a mortgage payment is a nice big ding on your credit history.
anyway.
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In the case of a debit card, your bank account could be empty (or overdrawn) immediately, which is a much more serious issue and potentially a lot more hassle to deal with.
No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
I should check with my credit union to see what kind of limits they put on debit card usage. But the Bad Guy won't try to charge $5,000 worth of stuff on a debit card. They'll do hundreds of dollars at different merchants, all of which are under any "limit" but aggregate to wiping out your account balance before the bank catches up.
But that said, banks are getting good at catching fraud and they'll usually halt "strange" charges.
Over here most regular shops don't even accept credit cards. Credit card companies do charge a high commision which in the end needs to be paid somehow by the consumers.
Yes, the swipe fees ultimately get paid for by the consumer in the form of higher prices, but the reality is that at last here in the US the tide has shifted well in favor of electronic payments over cash. Any business that wants to do cash only won't stay in business for very long. Maybe bars and restaurants but other than that, forget it. Hell, a friend and I had lunch at one of the great local joints last week, first time since COVID, and I went to the cash machine because that restaurant was cash-only. I was surprised to see that they accepted credit cards and Apple Pay.
I'm not at all in favor of the trend to no-cash businesses because too many people do not have credit cards.
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In the case of a debit card, your bank account could be empty (or overdrawn) immediately, which is a much more serious issue and potentially a lot more hassle to deal with.
No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
I should check with my credit union to see what kind of limits they put on debit card usage. But the Bad Guy won't try to charge $5,000 worth of stuff on a debit card. They'll do hundreds of dollars at different merchants, all of which are under any "limit" but aggregate to wiping out your account balance before the bank catches up.
But that said, banks are getting good at catching fraud and they'll usually halt "strange" charges.
Over here most regular shops don't even accept credit cards. Credit card companies do charge a high commision which in the end needs to be paid somehow by the consumers.
Yes, the swipe fees ultimately get paid for by the consumer in the form of higher prices, but the reality is that at last here in the US the tide has shifted well in favor of electronic payments over cash. Any business that wants to do cash only won't stay in business for very long. Maybe bars and restaurants but other than that, forget it. Hell, a friend and I had lunch at one of the great local joints last week, first time since COVID, and I went to the cash machine because that restaurant was cash-only. I was surprised to see that they accepted credit cards and Apple Pay.
I'm not at all in favor of the trend to no-cash businesses because too many people do not have credit cards.
here no cash is not allowed
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Black Sheep is correct. I'm in the US. The whole credit-rating thing is completely weird and non-obvious. Having a large amount of "available credit" is considered a Good Thing by the data-miners like TransUnion. They like when you have "long term credit." That is: a credit card you got 20 years ago and you pay in full each month is excellent.
They don't like high usage-to-available-credit ratios. That is: if you have $10,000 available credit and you carry a balance of $5,000 a month, that's bad -- even if you pay the balance in full every month and never incur interest charges.
The hilarious thing is that it's actually quite easily for an adult to have $50,000 or more in available credit-card credit. If you carry a $5,000 monthly balance and pay it in full each month, then your usage ratio is low even though the balance might seem high and they like that.
I think it makes perfect sense and don't find it particularly weird although it can seem unfair it is all based on statistical data. Somebody who has a significant amount of credit available but doesn't max it out and carry a huge debt suggests that they are financially responsible. Lenders want to loan money to people that have a history of paying back money that they borrow. If someone hasn't borrowed anything and have no history then they're an unknown so naturally that will count against them. If they have a bunch of cards that are maxed out all the time they probably aren't very good at paying back what they borrow, so naturally that will count against them. It isn't really very hard to build a good credit rating, all I did was sign up for a credit card when I was 18 that I used to mail order stuff and I paid it off each month. I used it to buy groceries and gas for my car, relatively small amounts and never carried a balance, pretty soon I had a good credit score because I deliberately did what I knew would result in that.
I don't even know what my credit limit is anymore, they kept raising it despite the fact that I never hit it and never asked for it to be raised, I stopped paying attention when it got to $15k. I've never charged more than $4500 and I paid that off in full the same month.
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I don't even know what my credit limit is anymore, they kept raising it despite the fact that I never hit it and never asked for it to be raised, I stopped paying attention when it got to $15k. I've never charged more than $4500 and I paid that off in full the same month.
You're exactly the type of customer the credit card company hates. :)
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While I understand her reasoning and agree that country or small town is probably a bad option, I don't think what she wants really exists anymore. There are other cheap (relatively speaking these days) LGBT friendly cities, but that sort of big cheap residential rental property she's after (if I'm understanding correctly) just isn't around anymore. Even Detroit and outlying cheap friendly areas (Ferndale comes to mind) are getting expensive, rebuilt/remodeled, and gentrified in a hurry, and has been for a decade.
That's because there are investors, both companies and individuals that are actively scouting out these sort of properties so they can snap them up, renovate them or redevelop the land and make a huge profit. They have cash on hand and can make a compelling offer for a quick sale and this has been exacerbated by the well meaning but poorly thought out eviction moratoriums that effectively encourage landlords who have problem tenants or worry that they might to sell their properties because that is an easy way to bypass the moratorium and evict the tenants. The circumstances that exist virtually ensure the pattern will continue to repeat, if she does manage to find another similar space it is only a matter of time before an investment group finds that same property and makes the owner an offer they can't refuse.
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You're exactly the type of customer the credit card company hates. :)
I'm well aware of this, and I give exactly zero shits. I often round up to the nearest dollar when I pay the bill resulting in carrying a small positive balance on the card most of the time just because it amuses me to see the angry looking bold red numbers on the statement. I have no qualms whatsoever about exploiting the services they offer, they may hate me, but that doesn't stop them from sending me offers for other credit cards.
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Well... I was a frequent supporter for Dave too but after he stated I must be stupid bringing facts on the table, I stopped that too...
Care to elaborate?
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Within the constraints set the possible options I see are come up with a massive amount of money out of thin air, or find some other affordable place to rent again and get evicted again in a year or two when the building is sold to redevelop.
Yes, that is sadly the almost guaranteed outcome I'm afraid.
She might have to consider a regular apartment of some sort, like 2 or 3 bedroom and convert the other bedroom(s) into lab space.
Adequate for electronics work, but pretty crap for other bigger and messier stuff she does.
But the good thing about youtube is that she could pivot to entirely electronics and other small stuff for content and still keep the channel going, while the other stuff goes in storage.
Not ideal, but certainly better than the channel folding, which I don't think can actually happen.
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2018 GoFundMe raised $44K and then the recent Zero-G $12K so it might be possible to survive based on GoFundMe's but it really doesn't look sustainable.
However FranLab YT channel subscribership has doubled in the last few years so there are the same number of new supporters as old ones...
So maybe another GoFundMe would work.
At a minimum I'd say she'd be lucky to find another place of the same size and rent in the next two months considering how hard it was to find the current one.
IIRC the $44k last time (minus taxes) was barely enough to sustain her, so it'll likely be similar again.
I would recommend selling stuff to raise some cash... there must be lots of interesting bits of stuff that could be flogged off to raise cash... and you cannot take it with you.
It actually takes a lot of time and effort to sell stuff, and I suspect it will be pretty much a full time job to find a new space at this point.
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As many businesses are looking at downsizing their property due to making at least some work-at-home permanent, an option may be to find a friendly local business that is prepared to sub-let some of their space.
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As many businesses are looking at downsizing their property due to making at least some work-at-home permanent, an option may be to find a friendly local business that is prepared to sub-let some of their space.
Worth looking at.
One potential problem is that it's her home and lab, so I presume that rules out generic office space.
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Well... I was a frequent supporter for Dave too but after he stated I must be stupid bringing facts on the table, I stopped that too...
Care to elaborate?
I rather not to open that box again since the topic was closed quite some ago. It was not the best moments for the community. IMHO.
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I don't even know what my credit limit is anymore, they kept raising it despite the fact that I never hit it and never asked for it to be raised, I stopped paying attention when it got to $15k. I've never charged more than $4500 and I paid that off in full the same month.
You're exactly the type of customer the credit card company hates. :)
They still bank the merchant fees (typically 1.5-3%) and then pay you out your rewards (typically 0.5-1.5%), but importantly, you spend money that encourages/forces merchants to keep accepting their credit card.
They don't love you as much as the people paying 18% on $10K forever, but they don't hate you.
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Emergency over:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwAxSmvrtxQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwAxSmvrtxQ)
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:phew:
Really surprised she found something so quickly, it didn't sound good for a while.
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I'm still betting we'll be discussing this again within a couple of years. :popcorn:
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:phew:
Really surprised she found something so quickly, it didn't sound good for a while.
Unfortunately I think you are right.
Either another eviction, or the money will dry up. AFAIK she is mostly supported by the Patreon money.
IIRC she did that video analysing the finances and at the time is seemed like it was only going to last 12 months or something. It's obviously turned out better than that, but still I don't think there is much margin there.
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In the case of a debit card, your bank account could be empty (or overdrawn) immediately, which is a much more serious issue and potentially a lot more hassle to deal with.
No. There are daily withdrawal limits you can set to minimize the damage. Many banks have quite low defaults so the damage is minimal. On top of that, unintentional withdrawels by criminals are covered by the banks.
I should check with my credit union to see what kind of limits they put on debit card usage. But the Bad Guy won't try to charge $5,000 worth of stuff on a debit card. They'll do hundreds of dollars at different merchants, all of which are under any "limit" but aggregate to wiping out your account balance before the bank catches up.
No, the limits are daily limits. Not per purchase limits.
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Good news! ^-^
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I'm still betting we'll be discussing this again within a couple of years. :popcorn:
Or sooner... probably sooner. If not getting evicted, then leaving Youtube. Or something else.
But lets not list all that can be interpreted as negative feedback. Majority of the content is interesting. Hoping that Fran gets all sorted out.
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(I won't even get into how landlords and even employers will pull a credit report on potential lessees/hires. That's pure evil.)
The landlord credit bureau is all about that and they help good tenants increase their credit rating. I haven't tried them, found them when considering getting tenants but it's still too much risk for me. Out here it takes about 1 year, or at least it did before 2020, to get tenants out. No matter how little they've paid or how much damage they've done. Allowing a tenant into your house is a big risk and it makes sense to do some due diligence first.
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I'm not very familiar with FranLab but I'm guessing she doesn't sell the things she makes. Most maker channels I've seen ignore that and I wish they wouldn't. I haven't found many people talking about how to turn all this work and knowledge into money. Dave's videos about his current meter and subsequent DMM were some of my favorites.
Sounds like Fran is a great maker, why doesn't she sell things and make money?
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Sounds like Fran is a great maker, why doesn't she sell things and make money?
There's a completely different set of skills required for making a 'one off' or a handful of things and reliably, efficiently, and economically manufacturing and selling hundreds, thousands of millions of something. It's a bit like the difference between being a good cook and a good restauranteur.
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Sounds like Fran is a great maker, why doesn't she sell things and make money?
she did,the company was called frantone.
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Sounds like Fran is a great maker, why doesn't she sell things and make money?
she did,the company was called frantone.
Thanks. Sounds like she had some good products but was copied and ignored. I think that is a common problem and it would be great to see her overcome it.
She did say she would give it another go if someone wants to manufacturer for her or license it. This has the makings of a great underdog story that would end with Fran buying her competitors buildings and evicting them.
Youtube - What Happened To Frantone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc00CpPvhlI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc00CpPvhlI)
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Sounds like Fran is a great maker, why doesn't she sell things and make money?
There's a completely different set of skills required for making a 'one off' or a handful of things and reliably, efficiently, and economically manufacturing and selling hundreds, thousands of millions of something. It's a bit like the difference between being a good cook and a good restauranteur.
Yes it is a different skill set but they go well together and often get combined. Whether as an entrepreneur or an employee, it is valuable to know design, manufacturing and business.
I think a lot of makers dream about making money eventually and would enjoy learning how to do everything required for that. It can be a pain to get sidetracked by all the business stuff but it's also a pain getting sidetracked by having insufficient funds.
I bet many cooks dream of becoming a chef and then opening their own restaurant.
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Products designed (and often manufactured) by a content creator is something I have found a good way to support makers. I might be alone with this, but I am willing to pay more for a product that has "maker's touch" on it. Let me give you examples: I have bought plans from Matthias Wandel's shop to support. I have absolutely no intention to make a chair. I have bought a DMM from Dave. I have tons of those already. And I could buy one much cheaper if I needed to.
I have bought a game from 8-bit guy. I do not have any suitable computer for it.
So... I think it does not need to be mass produced. And it does not need to compete (with price) against china-manufactured versions.
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Frantone was caught in the turmoil of the 9/11 terrorist attacks when it was just about to take off. She was based out of NY at the time. That blow and rezoning of her neighborhood forcing her to move out was what effectively killed Frantone off. She talked about it in a recent video on YT that she later delisted after YT flagged it due to the 9/11 related content. She said she was evicted effectively overnight and had to break into the building to save as much of Frantone assets as she could carry away in one night. Tools, materials, inventory. Seems to be a recurring thing for her.
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If you are selling "your brand" and your name brand is a trusted one, then people would rather buy and support you than a knockoff.
Encapsulating a PCB in epoxy is a good deterrent to make the thieves work harder, especially with random scrap electronic pieces thrown in the mix.
Add some wires to and fro to confuse things a bit more.
3D circuit boards, i.e. 90° verticals and horizontals make it harder to "decap" without destroying something.
Use SMD parts.
Never use the Chinese PCB maker's software and expect not seeing it sold for pennies later.
Leave values off the PCB when sending to the fab.
Nothing will stop the copycats.
Just make it hard for them to do it.
Just my 43 cents to protect hardware IP.
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(I won't even get into how landlords and even employers will pull a credit report on potential lessees/hires. That's pure evil.)
The landlord credit bureau is all about that and they help good tenants increase their credit rating. I haven't tried them, found them when considering getting tenants but it's still too much risk for me. Out here it takes about 1 year, or at least it did before 2020, to get tenants out. No matter how little they've paid or how much damage they've done. Allowing a tenant into your house is a big risk and it makes sense to do some due diligence first.
How is a person's credit rating an indicator of their behavior?
Many people have low credit ratings because they cannot get credit or get "enough" credit from lenders. It's a vicious cycle. Just because someone doesn't have a $50,000 credit limit across a half-dozen credit cards, with no outstanding balances, doesn't mean that they don't pay their bills on time. In fact, it's more likely that they do pay bills on time -- because when everything is cash, bills are paid immediately!
It's also further proof of the observation, "It is very expensive to be poor," because a low credit rating means that the cost of borrowing is higher than it is for someone with "better" credit.
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If you are selling "your brand" and your name brand is a trusted one, then people would rather buy and support you than a knockoff.
Encapsulating a PCB in epoxy is a good deterrent to make the thieves work harder, especially with random scrap electronic pieces thrown in the mix.
Add some wires to and fro to confuse things a bit more.
3D circuit boards, i.e. 90° verticals and horizontals make it harder to "decap" without destroying something.
Doesn't work. The only way is to stay ahead. Have the next product ready and let the copycats eat your dust.
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Frantone was caught in the turmoil of the 9/11 terrorist attacks when it was just about to take off. She was based out of NY at the time. That blow and rezoning of her neighborhood forcing her to move out was what effectively killed Frantone off. She talked about it in a recent video on YT that she later delisted after YT flagged it due to the 9/11 related content. She said she was evicted effectively overnight and had to break into the building to save as much of Frantone assets as she could carry away in one night. Tools, materials, inventory. Seems to be a recurring thing for her.
I assume she was renting that place as well. It seems to me that operating a business in the US from a rented space in a residential area is a guaranteed recipy for disaster.
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If you are selling "your brand" and your name brand is a trusted one, then people would rather buy and support you than a knockoff.
Encapsulating a PCB in epoxy is a good deterrent to make the thieves work harder, especially with random scrap electronic pieces thrown in the mix.
Add some wires to and fro to confuse things a bit more.
3D circuit boards, i.e. 90° verticals and horizontals make it harder to "decap" without destroying something.
Doesn't work. The only way is to stay ahead. Have the next product ready and let the copycats eat your dust.
I like that strategy and often suggest it when people want to add more features to V1 before getting any sales.
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I'm not very familiar with FranLab but I'm guessing she doesn't sell the things she makes. Most maker channels I've seen ignore that and I wish they wouldn't. I haven't found many people talking about how to turn all this work and knowledge into money. Dave's videos about his current meter and subsequent DMM were some of my favorites.
Sounds like Fran is a great maker, why doesn't she sell things and make money?
My incomes sources from this Youtube gig are, roughly in order of revenue.
Product sales
Website advertising
Youtube ad revenue
Patreon
LBRY/Odysee income
Paypal and crypto donations direct
I've tried to convince Fran to sell products, and have even given her some of my wholesale contacts and margins etc, but she says it's impossible from a logistics point of view in Philly in terms of courier and postage access/reliability or some such. I don't know the details of exactly why though. I guess it's another way Philly is holding her back.
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So... I think it does not need to be mass produced. And it does not need to compete (with price) against china-manufactured versions.
I've learned to stay away from the low margin and low priced stuff, it's not worth the effort packing and shipping something worth $10 for example.
If you are looking to rebedge/resell a product, it's actually quite hard to find something that is not well marketed elsewhere and has a good margin.
This is why Brymen was a great find for me, their marketing and strict dealership rules makes it quite difficult to get their products. And as a bonus the margins are good.
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Just needs to move out of the big city and settle down somewhere, buy a place of her own, and continue her work. Seems obvious to me, but I'm sure there's more to the story.
Not like she needs to be around basically anything to continue her business/job. Reminds me of the people in SF who are struggling to pay for their 1 bedroom apartment that costs $60,000 a year along with other astronomical living expenses.
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Just needs to move out of the big city and settle down somewhere, buy a place of her own, and continue her work. Seems obvious to me, but I'm sure there's more to the story.
There is, it's in the video. It's because she's trans and does not feel safe anywhere else.
Whether or not the threat is as bad as she thinks is kinda beside the point. It's real enough to her to keep doing the "safer" option of staying in Philly.
Anyway it's a done deal now, she has a new lease.
And the other hand, I'm looking at taking my own advice and once again thinking about buying a house and moving the lab into that. The numbers seem to work out even at Sydney's stupidly high prices.
I just missed out on a place that would have been perfect I think. And old delapidated house nearby that was used a surgery, sold as demolish/land only, but I'm sure it could have been usable as a lab.
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Buyers paradise.
Mad if you don't. :)
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Buyers paradise.
Mad if you don't. :)
Buyers paradise? :-//
More like a sellers paradise at the moment.
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Buyers paradise.
Mad if you don't. :)
Buyers paradise? :-//
More like a sellers paradise at the moment.
;D
Ha!
I suppose it depends on your standpoint.
The fish are on no matter where you drop the line.
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I've learned to stay away from the low margin and low priced stuff, it's not worth the effort packing and shipping something worth $10 for example.
Not sure are you agreeing with me or correcting. But anyway, I know nothing about youtube-business, but I do know something about the topic in general. And I think that both options are valid for a content creator as well. Of course, sending t-shirts is probably not time well spent. Someone else can do more effectively. Low margin, but high volumes: something that matters below the bottom line.
But my point in the first place was: I can buy a $5 t-shirt, but I have bought several $30 "Negative feedback" t-shirts (or what ever the price is shipping/tax included).
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I've learned to stay away from the low margin and low priced stuff, it's not worth the effort packing and shipping something worth $10 for example.
Not sure are you agreeing with me or correcting. But anyway, I know nothing about youtube-business, but I do know something about the topic in general. And I think that both options are valid for a content creator as well.
Yes, I agree with you. She should be selling products.
Selling low margin products only makes sense if you have it completely automated and/or someone else is doing all the leg work, otherwise it's time wasted. And if you are doing the sales as a supplementary side income you can't be wasting a lot of time, otherwise you are working minimum wage.
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I wonder how these eBay companies are set up. They must have massive warehouses here in the US where they stock thousands of items. All of them will be low-margin items basically straight from AliExpress but have the incentive of being delivered within a week rather than the usual month. I imagine a lot of them are the same suppliers in China on Ali who move someone to the US to manage their inventory/shipping here.
[attach=1]
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I wonder how these eBay companies are set up. They must have massive warehouses here in the US where they stock thousands of items. All of them will be low-margin items basically straight from AliExpress but have the incentive of being delivered within a week rather than the usual month. I imagine a lot of them are the same suppliers in China on Ali who move someone to the US to manage their inventory/shipping here.
Likely just all automated drop shipping and they include faster shipping from China instead of the normal shipping.
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There are some that have US warehouses. There was a company next to where my friend's machine shop used to be that sold random trinkets from China. I don't know exactly how the business worked or what sort of specific products they sold but he had a good sized space and I know he stocked a lot of the more popular stuff locally. I think he did a mix of selling local stock and drop shipping direct from China. I would speculate companies like that make most of their profit on the higher cost items and sell the cheaper stuff as loss leaders.
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Encapsulating a PCB in epoxy is a good deterrent to make the thieves work harder, especially with random scrap electronic pieces thrown in the mix.
Not really. I got quite adept at reverse engineering and even repairing potted bricks, I used a combination of xray images and in some cases de-potting. In fact I would say that potting something is a good way to entice me into working out what is inside it, whereas I might otherwise just ignore it. You only need to de-pot one single example, and if you don't care about destroying the sample it is really quite easy.
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I wonder how these eBay companies are set up. They must have massive warehouses here in the US where they stock thousands of items. All of them will be low-margin items basically straight from AliExpress but have the incentive of being delivered within a week rather than the usual month. I imagine a lot of them are the same suppliers in China on Ali who move someone to the US to manage their inventory/shipping here.
Likely just all automated drop shipping and they include faster shipping from China instead of the normal shipping.
I think so too. I have noticed that Aliexpress is delivering very quickly nowadays. Typically 10 days.
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They have started to bundle packages to the US now. I placed an order a few weeks ago that was from several different vendors, all showed up in the same bag, with the individual items postmarked in smaller bags inside.
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I posted this comment on the video:
I can confirm the Patreon thing is not counted as "income" for loan purposes. I do wonder though if there is a way to structure it so that it would be counted as income? Like setting up a company or trust and having Patreon pay into the trust account and then Fran works as full time employee as the company director? If it's a trust or some other structure, the banks might not go asking questions. If they do, then you are just a regular self-employed person. Still hoops to jump through, but maybe not insurmountable then. You just need to hide that the income is a donation.
It's not illegal, and if the bank doesn't bother to jump through extra hoops to do its due diligence on the source of the companies funding, that's their problem.
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Don't they call that a shell company? I mean I guess if wealthy people can game that for their own purposes there's nothing wrong with a regular person doing it. Another option is to cosign with somebody, or buy a building together with a partner. Doesn't have to be a romantic partner, it can be a business partner. It can be risky and I wouldn't do it, but it's an option.
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I posted this comment on the video:
I can confirm the Patreon thing is not counted as "income" for loan purposes. I do wonder though if there is a way to structure it so that it would be counted as income? Like setting up a company or trust and having Patreon pay into the trust account and then Fran works as full time employee as the company director? If it's a trust or some other structure, the banks might not go asking questions. If they do, then you are just a regular self-employed person. Still hoops to jump through, but maybe not insurmountable then. You just need to hide that the income is a donation.
Feeding the money through some kind of organisation (could even be a non-profit!) sounds like a very wise thing to do. From there you can pay yourself a salary. I don't see why income from donations is a problem for an organisation. Lots of charities and political parties rely on donations to pay their staff and other bills. It is not like the people working at a charity can't get mortgages.
Yes, there will be some extra work involved at the administrative side which may incur a learning curve but nothing extraordinary.
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I've heard this is a good plan for consulting also. Clients pay your business and you take salary from your business.
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I know a guy who used to do a lot of 1099 (independent contractor) work and put it all through a shell corporation with himself on the payroll, he claimed it saved him tax money, even after paying an accountant to set up and maintain it.
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I know a guy who used to do a lot of 1099 (independent contractor) work and put it all through a shell corporation with himself on the payroll, he claimed it saved him tax money, even after paying an accountant to set up and maintain it.
I always take these kind of stories with a grain of salt. You can probably save some taxes by spreading out income more evenly across several years and put money into a retirement fund if the money is received by a company. Over here money put into a retirement fund is not taxed until you start to draw from it once you are retired. But more likely the guy you know didn't investigate much into how to deal with his income in a tax friendly way; in such cases an accountant is worth the money.
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I know a guy who used to do a lot of 1099 (independent contractor) work and put it all through a shell corporation with himself on the payroll, he claimed it saved him tax money, even after paying an accountant to set up and maintain it.
I see claims like this all the time, but for small businesses (S Corps, sole proprietorships) the "savings" is less than you might think.
Remember a sole proprietorship is not incorporated. You just say "this is my business." As the "owner" you get all of the profits but you are personally responsible for debts. With a sole proprietorship, you (the owner) does not get paid a salary. Instead you pull an "owner's draw" which is what it sounds like: you pull cash out of the business to pay personal expenses. But! For tax purposes, the IRS considers the business's profits (that is, money left over after expenses) to be your income. Your business could net $100,000 but you took a draw for only $25,000 -- this means your personal income is $100,000 and you owe personal income taxes on that (minus various deductions available to regular taxpayers) and you also owe the 15.3% FICA tax in full and the ~4% Medicare tax, too. (Though half of the payroll taxes are a business expense and as such will be deducted from business income.)
It's also worth noting that if you do the sole-proprietor route, your self-employed status means you are required to make quarterly payments of estimated income and payroll taxes.
With an S Corp the IRS requires the owner to pay themselves a "reasonable" W-2 salary. (There's a lot of wiggle room there.) The usual taxes are deducted from the paycheck: Social Security, Medicare, state and federal income taxes. The corporation owner is also allowed to do a draw in the form of a "shareholder distribution." Because of our peculiar tax laws, this distribution is taxed at a lower rate than personal wage income, and they are not subject to withholding for payroll taxes. Also, whatever profit is left over in the business at the end of the year is taxed at the lower corporate rate, not the higher personal rate. This might be where "your guy" is saving money.
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I don't see why income from donations is a problem for an organisation. Lots of charities and political parties rely on donations to pay their staff and other bills. It is not like the people working at a charity can't get mortgages.
Yes, it would be a matter of scale. I'm sure that legit charities with lots of employees have no problem getting loans.
But for an individual to rely (almost sole in Fran's case I think) on donations and Youtube income alone, that can vanish in an instant I can see why it doesn't count.
I've been told essentially that by banks. In my case though it wasn't my sole or major source of income, and I had a long business history behind it.
One of Fran's problmes is that she doesn't have a history of company income and paying herself wages. It just doesn't look legit enough. She needs to at the very least set up a ocmpany now and start paying herself a wage. In a few years it may pay off.
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Is she okay now?
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donations and Youtube income alone, that can vanish in an instant I can see why it doesn't count.
This.
I would expect it will vanish at some point, well probably not vanish but significantly dwindle. There are people who may donate once to help a person in need, maybe twice, but they're not going to keep doing it if the person keeps finding themselves in the same situation. Then there is the fact that celebrity tends to be fleeting and there is the very real chance that Fran will run out of interesting content to produce, or just lose interest in doing it, or the winds of trends and fads will shift and people will just become interested in some other form of entertainment. All it takes is a recession like we've had a few times and people cut their expenses, donations tend to be one of the first things to get cut.
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Is she okay now?
She is ok in that she has a new lease in a new place, so will not be leaft homeless in 7 weeks. But she is still in the same lease position as before, so the problem will almost certainly reoccur again.
It's easy to do nothing when things aren't broken. I think she really needs to start doing something now.
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No worries :horse:
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It makes me wonder why there's not a Kickstarter/GoFundMe equivalent but for giving people a small loan.
I'm sure Fran has enough viewership to loan her enough money to get a house.
It's probably a legal nightmare to setup unless done on trust with no obligation to actually pay it back, and if you did that it would be a hotbed for scammers.
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It makes me wonder why there's not a Kickstarter/GoFundMe equivalent but for giving people a small loan.
I'm sure Fran has enough viewership to loan her enough money to get a house.
It's probably a legal nightmare to setup unless done on trust with no obligation to actually pay it back, and if you did that it would be a hotbed for scammers.
GoFundMe is entirely built on trust -- trust that the person running the campaign will use the donations as advertised, and not just take the money and fuck off to Las Vegas for the weekend.
And it's true that many GoFundMe campaigns really are just grifts. There is no real recourse for anyone donating.
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It makes me wonder why there's not a Kickstarter/GoFundMe equivalent but for giving people a small loan.
I think there is, kind of. Google 'peer to peer lending' or check out https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peer-to-peer-lending.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peer-to-peer-lending.asp)
But this kind of thing expects repayment of the loan, which GoFunding doesn't.
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It makes me wonder why there's not a Kickstarter/GoFundMe equivalent but for giving people a small loan.
I haven't checked US, but microloans are quite common in many countries.
Indeed it is still a loan that needs to be paid back and could perhaps help with the downpayment for a long term mortgage, but I think that Fran's issues were to actually go over the barriers of securing a loan, not just the downpayment...
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I'm sure Fran has enough viewership to loan her enough money to get a house.
Not in Philly, and that's essentially the problem. She won't consider a reasonably priced place outside the city.
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Not in Philly, and that's essentially the problem. She won't consider a reasonably priced place outside the city.
It’s the Philly cheesesteak sandwich, isn’t it? I know guys who would kill for a good one …
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Not in Philly, and that's essentially the problem. She won't consider a reasonably priced place outside the city.
It’s the Philly cheesesteak sandwich, isn’t it? I know guys who would kill for a good one …
I'll be in Philly in March -- I'm definitely getting a cheesesteak.
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I'm sure Fran has enough viewership to loan her enough money to get a house.
Not in Philly, and that's essentially the problem. She won't consider a reasonably priced place outside the city.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see" John Heywood circa 1546
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"It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave" Justin Hayward circa 1969
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"Wop-bop-a-loo-mop alop-bom-bom"
Little Richard, 1955
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"Iacta alea est"
Julius Caesar, 49BC
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"Trust me, I'm a doctor."
My doctor, yesterday.
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"Trust me, I'm an engineer!"
Haha, when you need to resort to an argument of authority, it's usually that you are not very convincing.
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I'm sure Fran has enough viewership to loan her enough money to get a house.
Not in Philly, and that's essentially the problem. She won't consider a reasonably priced place outside the city.
She said she could afford to repay a loan, but just can't get one.
So one would assume that means she can afford the loan repayments needed to buy a house where she wants one.
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I'm sure Fran has enough viewership to loan her enough money to get a house.
Not in Philly, and that's essentially the problem. She won't consider a reasonably priced place outside the city.
She said she could afford to repay a loan, but just can't get one.
So one would assume that means she can afford the loan repayments needed to buy a house where she wants one.
You won't get a house in the centre of the city of Philly though, it'd be an apartment.
Then there is the question of where the deposit comes from.
And then the problems of finding a suitable live/work space close to her other spaces, and the ongoing costs of those other spaces (5 spaces total).
I suspect that buying a place in the downtown city of Philly, even if possible, solves the getting booted out problem, but will still be a large financial cash flow burden.
The argument from many people remains the same, it's vastly cheaper to consolidate into a large combined space in the suburbs.
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Sadly it looks like financial crunch time for Franlab :(
Either the Patreon income increases to keep it afloat, or she has to progressively shut down the 3 spaces she has (4 actually, two storage spaces, factory, and the apartment)
This time I proposed in the comments that if she wants to save it all then she has to consolidate the two storage spaces and factory and daily commute to a single cheaper bigger space. And also maybe downsize the Philly apartment.
At the moment I believe all 3 spaces are walking distance or a very short trip from her downtown apartment, and she is paying a huge financial penalty for that.
$90k/year is the cost for all the rent and expenses.
EDIT: She has since commented that's not an option, so it's Patreon or bust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRQ23ylwQbE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRQ23ylwQbE)
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Advertising and all of the businesses that rely on it will now be winding down slowly, then perhaps abruptly in the near future. General advertising budgets are being slashed as companies reexamine their operations and economics. Companies that are still willing to pay are going to want things like in-channel endorsements, not skippable ads randomly applied by Youtube or Google's algorithms. Content creators that value their integrity and don't want to be paid shills are going to have to make some adjustments.
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I obviously don't know all Fran's constraints and all. But just a thought is that she's been renting several places for pretty high rents for years. Wouldn't she have been able to buy a place with all this money and not have to be at the mercy of landlords?
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I obviously don't know all Fran's constraints and all. But just a thought is that she's been renting several places for pretty high rents for years. Wouldn't she have been able to buy a place with all this money and not have to be at the mercy of landlords?
Probably not, especially in her area which she is adamantly unwilling to leave. First off, many of these types of commercial buildings are rarely sold and she may not even be renting an entire building. Second, you'd need the money up front because obtaining financing for this type of operation is nearly impossible. It's a very tough spot.
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I obviously don't know all Fran's constraints and all. But just a thought is that she's been renting several places for pretty high rents for years. Wouldn't she have been able to buy a place with all this money and not have to be at the mercy of landlords?
She has explained that many times and why it's not an option.
For personal security reasons she doesn't want to leave Philly. And Philly no longer has any live/work spaces that don't cost way more than she's already paying.
This time I suggested living in Philly for personal lifestyle and commuting to a big consolidated space just outside Philly somwhere, but it seems this also isn't an option for her.
I'm afraid she's stuck and will have to abandon all her stuff and spaces within the the next 6 months tops :(
She seems not at all willing to consider giving up some perceived personal safety to commute or live elsewhere in order to save FranLab as it currently exists.
As to buying a place, being self employed it's all but impossible to get a loan. But she can't afford anything in Philly anyway AFAIK.
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She has explained that many times and why it's not an option.
For personal security reasons she doesn't want to leave Philly. And Philly no longer has any live/work spaces that don't cost way more than she's already paying.
This time I suggested living in Philly for personal lifestyle and commuting to a big consolidated space just outside Philly somwhere, but it seems this also isn't an option for her.
I'm afraid she's stuck and will have to abandon all her stuff and spaces within the the next 6 months tops :(
She seems not at all willing to consider giving up some perceived personal safety to commute or live elsewhere in order to save FranLab as it currently exists.
As to buying a place, being self employed it's all but impossible to get a loan. But she can't afford anything in Philly anyway AFAIK.
Unfortunately I'm pretty much all out of shits to give at this point, she's created this problem for herself by having unreasonably rigid artificial constraints. We all knew exactly what was going to happen given the current trajectory which amounts to trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I really don't understand the irrational obsession with Philly or the insistence that is is safer. In terms of LGBTQ friendly areas I'm not even sure it's in the top 10 that would come to my mind. Statistically rural areas are far safer, and while the individual people in those areas may not be as LGBT friendly I don't think it matters, even in the deep red conservative parts of the USA most rural people mind their own business and like to be left alone. Most of the people outside the very specific engineering/maker subculture probably don't know who she is, would have no idea she was trans (I didn't until it was mentioned here) and would leave her alone. Certainly it is extremely unlikely that anyone would threaten her physical safety, Philly is widely known for being a high crime city, it isn't somewhere I'd even want to visit and I certainly wouldn't feel safe walking around downtown and I'm a >6' tall straight male. For the whopping $90k a year she could easily afford a nice detached house with a large workshop on several acres in a rural part of the country, and with a bit of luck a bus ride away from some sort of urban environment. It would be objectively safer, I just can't even imagine why somebody would rather live in an urban city unless they spend all their time going out to clubs and work in the office at a large downtown company.
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James' nailed it. I've been following this discussion and have been wondering the same things. I can tell you for a FACT that there are plenty of areas in the US that are LGBT friendly and that she wouldn't have any trouble in; and that are also a lot safer (for anyone) than Philly, and that are much more affordable.
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Patreon support should be considered a bonus. It blows my mind that someone would rely on Patreon for living. Back few years when her troubles with renting started i said counting on Patreon is a wrong thing because it is not a sustainable source of income. This video has confirmed that.
OK, lets assume the Patrion supporters increase their pledges. Two years from now it will be eaten away with inflation and increased rents, and she will be back begging again.
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Patreon support should be considered a bonus. It blows my mind that someone would rely on Patreon for living. Back few years when her troubles with renting started i said counting on Patreon is a wrong thing because it is not a sustainable source of income. This video has confirmed that.
OK, lets assume the Patrion supporters increase their pledges. Two years from now it will be eaten away with inflation and increased rents, and she will be back begging again.
Exactly. I fail to understand what some people think YouTube and Patreon is.
Youtube before the ADpocalypse was not a reliable way of making money, now even worse. Patreon as a plead support exists but is not reliable because as YouTube how many people go for the premium/paid subscription? YouTube with uBlock you can say bye to ads on the start of the videos (or if you use a VPN choose a country like Taiwan - it's the one I normally connect and to this day I'm still waiting to see an ad pop up in the beginning or middle of a video. Same can't be said if I choose Japan or Hong Kong). The YouTuber have a promotional ad inside the video? Just hit twice the arrow to scrub 10sec and ad finished.
Some YouTubers now going to services like Nebula who have a subscription with Curiosity Stream, including having content only available in such service. Just a search on reddit and you can see such content on pirate streaming websites.
People who don't want to pay will not pay, end of story. Be not being able, be believing that entertainment should be free, whatever the reason.
YouTubers and other content providers should change their approach and understand that YouTube and other services are another avenue for revenue, should not be the main one. They should have a work, a product or a shop or some kind of main revenue to support them.
Or course this is not true for big channels as MKBHD, LTT and Kurzgesagt as an example, but those channels grown in their respective fields in the golden age of YouTube. But even those channels had to diversify - both the 3 above do commercial work, as you can rent then to do corporate training videos (LTT) or educational videos (Kurzgesagt) or even company filming/ad production (MKBHD).
For all successful channels said above a ton are underperforming or failing to be able to break the water line. The tech/review sector is flooded of people trying to do the same others do, without anything that makes them differently of their peers in the same area of interest.
This will happen even more as companies cut ad costs, price increases because of inflation or other non controlable reasons.
Wanna share context to the masses, great do it, but don't expect to make a living on that.
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James' nailed it. I've been following this discussion and have been wondering the same things. I can tell you for a FACT that there are plenty of areas in the US that are LGBT friendly and that she wouldn't have any trouble in; and that are also a lot safer (for anyone) than Philly, and that are much more affordable.
It might take a whole bunch of fellow trans people to convince her, but I suspect even that won't work as I've tried to convence her to jump on LGBT forums and find a suitable locations but she was't interested.
When she was looking at buying instead of renting some time back I found a nice place in a smaller town just near Philly that has a great big standalone place for sale at like $100k or something and there was a big LGBT centre just down the road. She wouldn't even consider it, it's philly or bust.
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OK, lets assume the Patrion supporters increase their pledges. Two years from now it will be eaten away with inflation and increased rents, and she will be back begging again.
I hate to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure its not going to work. All of us creators have seen a general decline in Patreon support, and we can't even get 10% of our already paying Patrons to watch an exclusive video when we release it to them, let alone increase their pledge.
You would think that paying Patron are more passionate about your content than most viewers, but it turns out they aren't that much different, in that it's hard to get 10% of them to even action something that takes them little effort.
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Many people are using Patreon as a significant source of income. It's just part of a content creator's strategy these days. So I don't think it should be considered as a "bonus". The only thing to consider here IMO is as with anything else - don't put all your eggs in the same basket. Diversify your sources of income. Easier said than done probably in her case.
Ultimately, her problem is very simple: how to make more money, at least enough to cover expenses and some extra to save. That's pretty much the problem everyone is facing, except that when you're an employee, your only problem if you need more than you earn is to ask for a raise, and if it doesn't work, find a new one. When you have your own business, it requires a lot more work and imagination to get there.
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I can tell you for a FACT that there are plenty of areas in the US that are LGBT friendly and that she wouldn't have any trouble in; and that are also a lot safer (for anyone) than Philly, and that are much more affordable.
Every situation is specific. If you've struggled to fit in for many years and finally made some friends and connections and you feel comfortable in your environment, packing up and leaving is not an easy thing to contemplate.
So no judgements from me on that account. OTOH, I'm sorry to say the overall business plan is doomed, IMO.
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Ultimately, her problem is very simple: how to make more money, at least enough to cover expenses and some extra to save.
Or slash costs.
IMO she has to stop the cash bleeding now instead of later.
She said the first thing to go will be "factory" that has her lathe, paint shop woodworking etc. I don't think we've ever seen that on camera?
Then the two storage units.
So it's either sell it all shut them down, or move them all into one big cheap location that's outside of Philly and have to live wih the commute when needed.
I don't know Philly, but I can't imagine there not being a big cheap space available somewhere within say an hours drive? :-//
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I can tell you for a FACT that there are plenty of areas in the US that are LGBT friendly and that she wouldn't have any trouble in; and that are also a lot safer (for anyone) than Philly, and that are much more affordable.
Every situation is specific. If you've struggled to fit in for many years and finally made some friends and connections and you feel comfortable in your environment, packing up and leaving is not an easy thing to contemplate. So no judgements from me on that account.
I agree, which is why this time I suggested staying in Philly but moving the rest outside Philly. Better to have it all in storage somewhere cheap and hardly ever access it than to get rid of it all when it's so clearly of huge value to her personally.
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James summed it up quite well. No one gives a rip about what her personal history is, I have lived all my sixty plus years in the two counties bordering Philly and I’ve got to tell you, her perceived security in the city is an absolute false belief. She’d be far safer out here in the burbs, away from the crime and insane cost of living were she insists on living. It sounds more like it is small lgbt community where she now lives that feels safe to her but in reality, it’s anything but.
FWIW, I rent a storage area that is 2 minutes from my home that costs $90 a month for about 1000 cubic feet. I drive a truck and I’d volunteer to move her stuff to the burbs but I honestly doubt she’d ever agree to do it, especially so when she finds out I was probably “one of the old grumpy guys” at her local Heathkit store she mentions in some of her videos.
When people create narratives to explain their behavior and to continue to do what they’ve always done, there is virtually nothing any one can say or do to change them. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and too painful to watch, the classic train wreck. At some point, you just have to turn your back and let it happen because that’s what they really want and they’re actually making that happen in spite of what they say to the contrary. I hope that’s not case here but it sure looks that way.
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Some of us were never allowed to spend even a fraction of the time Fran has had playing around with this stuff. Only a real job kept the lights on if we wanted a certain living standard.
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Ultimately, her problem is very simple: how to make more money, at least enough to cover expenses and some extra to save.
Or slash costs.
IMO she has to stop the cash bleeding now instead of later.
She said the first thing to go will be "factory" that has her lathe, paint shop woodworking etc. I don't think we've ever seen that on camera?
I admit I don't understand much about that part. She has repeatedly said (at least as far as I got) that the production of her pedals - so the "factory" part - was way too expensive to be sustainable these days and I even thought she wasn't even producing pedals anymore. She probably has to make a decision with this and cut her losses.
As I think I've said before, if she wants to keep making pedals, she should probably stop the hand painting and the hand assembly and go for something more automated. That might not have as much "handmade" image to it then, but I'm sure that if she kept production under control with strict requirements and she did the final control, outsourcing production would work way better financially.
Or, if she wants to stop with the pedals entirely, so be it and then she'll have to cut her losses and get rid of anything related to the "factory". Yes, some decisions are tough.
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FWIW, I rent a storage area that is 2 minutes from my home that costs $90 a month for about 1000 cubic feet. I drive a truck and I’d volunteer to move her stuff to the burbs but I honestly doubt she’d ever agree to do it, especially so when she finds out I was probably “one of the old grumpy guys” at her local Heathkit store she mentions in some of her videos.
I wonder if she would accept an offer to help from another woman.
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Ultimately, her problem is very simple: how to make more money, at least enough to cover expenses and some extra to save.
Or slash costs.
IMO she has to stop the cash bleeding now instead of later.
She said the first thing to go will be "factory" that has her lathe, paint shop woodworking etc. I don't think we've ever seen that on camera?
I admit I don't understand much about that part. She has repeatedly said (at least as far as I got) that the production of her pedals - so the "factory" part - was way too expensive to be sustainable these days and I even thought she wasn't even producing pedals anymore. She probably has to make a decision with this and cut her losses.
I'm not sure what she does at the factory any more?
She certainly hasn't made pedals for years, and AFAIK that's the same for the dressmaking side of the business.
Maybe she has talked about this more in the live shows. But in any case she said the factory would be the first to go.
I think that decision needs to be made right now to help preserve savings.
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Some of us were never allowed to spend even a fraction of the time Fran has had playing around with this stuff. Only a real job kept the lights on if we wanted a certain living standard.
I've made a living out of just bumming around in my hobby lab ;D
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Some of us were never allowed to spend even a fraction of the time Fran has had playing around with this stuff. Only a real job kept the lights on if we wanted a certain living standard.
I've made a living out of just bumming around in my hobby lab ;D
..but you're unreal, don't forget.
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It might take a whole bunch of fellow trans people to convince her, but I suspect even that won't work as I've tried to convence her to jump on LGBT forums and find a suitable locations but she was't interested.
When she was looking at buying instead of renting some time back I found a nice place in a smaller town just near Philly that has a great big standalone place for sale at like $100k or something and there was a big LGBT centre just down the road. She wouldn't even consider it, it's philly or bust.
So it's bust then. Sorry but within the constraints she has set for herself she is finished, period, her life is going to collapse and it's entirely her own fault for being so ridiculously rigid and stubborn, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. There has got to be some kind of mental illness going on here because any rational person can look at the facts and quickly determine that an entirely different plan is the only hope. You simply cannot keep repeating the same actions and hope for a different result, it doesn't work.
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You simply cannot keep repeating the same actions and hope for a different result, it doesn't work.
The problem(?) has been that the Patreon income has been just enough to keep it all going. And then there was the crowd funding for the move, and then I think a 2nd crowd funding?
When you are just getting by living the dream it must be hard to think it can't be sustained by doing the same thing and hoping things will improve just a bit to make it viable again.
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OK, lets assume the Patrion supporters increase their pledges. Two years from now it will be eaten away with inflation and increased rents, and she will be back begging again.
I hate to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure its not going to work. All of us creators have seen a general decline in Patreon support, and we can't even get 10% of our already paying Patrons to watch an exclusive video when we release it to them, let alone increase their pledge.
You would think that paying Patron are more passionate about your content than most viewers, but it turns out they aren't that much different, in that it's hard to get 10% of them to even action something that takes them little effort.
The Patreon money I can spend is only what doesn't make a significant impact on my my bottom line. I support a few creators because I enjoy the content, but I'm not willing to take a hit myself to support certain lifestyle choices. It's reasonable to assume that other Patrons are in a similar situation. With economies tanking everywhere, there's less money in the hands of people and thus less Patreon money. I wouldn't bet on that to make a living.
Fran, with the style of content she primarily posts these days (telecined film rolls) is very prone to getting hit by copyright trolls and content matches. Youtube is just broken for her and no complaining on her side will change that. Youtube will not change their ways, with copyright laws themselves being broken as they are. They will not employ more humans. They will not make the appeal process more friendly to creators. And guess what, other services, as they grow, will find themselves in the focus of the "copyright industry" in due time and will either change their ways as well or drown in lawsuits.
Either way, Fran will have to change something. She's very adamant (or stubborn, if you prefer) in what she wants to do and how she wants to live. But in the end, something will have to give. I cannot judge if there's a real threat to her safety if she moves somewhere else or if she's just too fearful. But if she only tries to pull through, I'm afraid there's no going to be much left of her in not so many years.
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I don't want to downplay the more local and personal information that she has, but it seems to me that she would have little to fear (differentially to any other person) by moving out to a cheaper suburban area. In every aspect of life other than perhaps dating, she would go entirely unnoticed (aka "passes easily") as she goes about her business; I had no idea of her being trans until this thread mentioned it and that's after watching at least a half-dozen or so of her videos. (I even doubted the claim initially.)
I think Dave hit it on the head when he said (paraphrasing) that her current income might be "almost, but not quite enough" to sustain her and that could easily lead one to hope that with just a small improvement that it would become sustainable. Unfortunately, she seems to be exclusively chasing/hoping for improvements on the income side rather than working on concrete reductions on the expense side. I can understand that way of thinking; I just think it's too dangerous to pursue that to the exclusion of cutting expenses and making sacrifices to "get ramen profitable" first and then try to grow from there.
I wish her the best; I don't think the economic times we're steaming towards is a time to be pinning all your hopes on a substantial increase in patronage from a global audience.
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Fran, get yourself a talent agent.
You're worth a lot more than you know ;)
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Fran, get yourself a talent agent.
You're worth a lot more than you know ;)
quite possibly, or not quite as much :-\
recently, last year or so I've got lots of recruitment agency requests to apply for various education posts - not exceptionally well paid but certainly better than it has been.
May be this is something which appeals, or will keep the wolf from the door?
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James' nailed it. I've been following this discussion and have been wondering the same things. I can tell you for a FACT that there are plenty of areas in the US that are LGBT friendly and that she wouldn't have any trouble in; and that are also a lot safer (for anyone) than Philly, and that are much more affordable.
It might take a whole bunch of fellow trans people to convince her, but I suspect even that won't work as I've tried to convence her to jump on LGBT forums and find a suitable locations but she was't interested.
When she was looking at buying instead of renting some time back I found a nice place in a smaller town just near Philly that has a great big standalone place for sale at like $100k or something and there was a big LGBT centre just down the road. She wouldn't even consider it, it's philly or bust.
Dave, I was watching the saga as it was unfolding and I think you went above and beyond trying to help out but that fell on deaf ears. Stubborn people do not deserve compassion, I think we are dealing with a stubborn person case.
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Here is the graphic. She said expenses were $70k last year, and it will be $80-90k this year with inflation. So that would be the green line. And I think she said not including tax, but she mentioned $9000/month is needed now so I guess that is income required including tax to stay afloat as-is.
I believe she otherwise lives a fairly frugal lifestyle, so it's mostly all rent and utilities for the 4 spaces (apartment, factory, two storage units, for a total of 8 packed rooms).
Saving will run out in April. From the $2300/month ad revenue I think it was and the graph, savings look to be about $30-$35k.
She'll probaly get a small boost from this video which might keep her afloat for a bit longer than that, but inflation is going to be a killer, rent has already gone up 20%. The end is near unless she does something drastic. :(
I suspect the rent increases might have been recent because it wasn't that many months ago she was taking flying lessons which would have been expensive.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/?action=dlattach;attach=1611511;image)
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I can't help but wonder if there is some very real reason why she persists in maintaining her locale that is something to which the rest of the world has no right. I'm not going to speculate on any specific ideas but the possibility does exist. If that is the case, then all this "helpful advice" is rather oppressive.
If, however, it is simply a matter of her wanting to stay in her "comfort zone" then she is paying a high price for such a preference and one that could easily result in financial disaster - especially as things are already heading in that direction.
I would ask Fran to do one thing: Ask herself why she wants to stay in the area she has set out. Write these reasons down, making a note of the pros and cons and then address each one as if it were an outsider passing judgement. I would strongly suggest the "because I feel safe" reason be considered very carefully - and critically. Based on what others familiar with the area have indicated, I find it quite credible that there would be places at least as safe, if not safer ... and that if her reasoning is based on fear of the unknown, then that is something that needs to be faced square on.
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You could be right but I don't think that it's our place to pry into her reasons or to argue with her and try to convince her to choose a different path. She's an adult and knows what the situation is and what the likely outcome is, and she is capable of making her own choices, good or bad.
Rising rent prices (and home sales prices) were already big problem in the US this year, and that was before hurricane Ian! I think with the number of people that have lost their homes in hurricane Ian, it's going to be MUCH worse next year and the year after! The point is that unless she makes a very serious change in her financial situation, she will be facing this problem again next year and the year after that, etc etc.
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I can't help but wonder if there is some very real reason why she persists in maintaining her locale that is something to which the rest of the world has no right. I'm not going to speculate on any specific ideas but the possibility does exist. If that is the case, then all this "helpful advice" is rather oppressive.
If, however, it is simply a matter of her wanting to stay in her "comfort zone" then she is paying a high price for such a preference and one that could easily result in financial disaster - especially as things are already heading in that direction.
She has said many time it's the trans safety thing, and I can also personally confirm this is the main reason. Which is why this time I suggested staying in a Philly apartment but moving the shop and storage to a place she can drive directly to and from.
The other reasons are the usual ones like enjoy Philly as a city etc, and that's totally understandable.
She also said in the comments she lived for 10 years in a rural town and would not go back.
I'm not sure how much she could save by moving into a smaller apartment in Philly, although her new place isn't big, it's also not exactly a bedsit. But I don't think it's worth saving expenses there.
I suspect that if she just consolidated the factory and storage unit into one outside Philly she could save a bucket. But she replied to me on Patreon saying that she intimately knows the Philly and surrounding markets and has already got the best deals possible. I want to believe her, but I suspect that's not the case. I can't believe there isn't a single concolidated place available outside Philly that's say within a 30min drive away. :-//
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The problem(?) has been that the Patreon income has been just enough to keep it all going. And then there was the crowd funding for the move, and then I think a 2nd crowd funding?
When you are just getting by living the dream it must be hard to think it can't be sustained by doing the same thing and hoping things will improve just a bit to make it viable again.
I simply can't imagine being content just getting by and renting. I bought my house when I was 25 and sacrificed a lot to make it happen but it was the single best decision I ever made. Over time rent always goes up, and for quite a long time now rent has been going up faster than wages are in a lot of areas and if I hadn't bought I would have to move somewhere else. The writing has been on the wall for many years, Philly is gentrifying and the sort of spaces where Fran has been living/working are going away, that's happening and it's not going to change, those spaces are not coming back in that area any more than horse and cow pastures are going to make a return in my home town, they're just gone. I don't like that sort of progress but stopping it is like trying to stop a freight train by grabbing onto it and dragging my feet. If she wants to maintain the current lifestyle then moving locations is the ONLY option. If she wants to stay in that general part of Philly (for stated reasons that don't sound at all rational to me) then it's going to require a significant lifestyle change, ie move into a much smaller space and get a regular job. Maintaining the status quo is just not going to happen, especially as we edge into a recession.
I still cannot make any sense of the idea of someone wanting to live in Philadelphia because it's safe. Safe compared to what? Somalia? Afghanistan? :-// Looking up the stats I found this:
2022 statistics, crime ranked from 1 (lowest) to 100 (highest)
Philadelphia, PA New York, NY United States (overall)
Violent Crime 50.8 28.2 22.7
Property Crime 46.6 24.9 35.4
So violent crime is more than twice as high as in the country as a whole, and nearly twice as high as NYC which is not exactly known as a shining example of safety. I have not yet seen a breakdown comparing other major cities across the nation but to my knowledge as a lifelong northwest coast resident, Philly has always had a reputation as place infested with violence and gang activity. Fran is the first person I've heard in my entire life mention feeling safe as a reason for living there, that's just bizarre.
I also looked up listings of the most LGBT friendly cities in the USA and nothing in the entire state of PA even made any of the lists I found.
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These are the places on Loopnet near Philly that are under $10/sqft/year
But I've tried to find her places before and I know she wants me and other to stop looking for her, it seems to upset her if you even try :(
Heck, putting the feelers out might be able to net her a cheap barn or something someoen isn't using. Better than just scrapping it all.
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$7/sqft/year
multiple spaces available, 6km from the centre of Philly, you could ride a bike there every day.
3000sqft would be $21k/year
Even 1000sqft at $7k/year is almost twice the size of my lab and would at least let her store most of her stuff, with maybe a small work area.
I have a total of 50sqm+42sqm+31sqm = 1323sqft
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/845-873-S-55th-St-Philadelphia-PA/24578417/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/845-873-S-55th-St-Philadelphia-PA/24578417/)
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These are the places on Loopnet near Philly that are under $10/sqft/year
But I've tried to find her places before and I know she wants me and other to stop looking for her, it seems to upset her if you even try :(
Heck, putting the feelers out might be able to net her a cheap barn or something someoen isn't using. Better than just scrapping it all.
Some people just seem to be hell bent on their own destruction, I really think there is some sort of mental illness going on here because nothing adds up in any rational way. On a smaller scale I've encountered a few people who behave the same way. They get themselves into a doomed situation and then patently reject every suggestion of a viable solution and stubbornly continue on their downward spiral. After seeing it happen a few times I just stopped getting caught up in the drama and victimhood. As I said earlier, the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" applies here. Fran has been offered multiple solutions and has rejected every one of them outright. Fine, the train is speeding toward the end of the line and I'm done making any attempts to stop it.
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If a person ignores reality, reality can overwhelm them faster than they can run away from their situation. When a person cannot look within and evaluate their situation, they become their own cult member drinking the Kool-Aid. Religion, marketing and politics are dependent on people not taking charge of their own lives. Stubbornness isn’t a virtue and only works for people like Steve Jobs; and then other traits may have obtained even better results.
I don’t feel that anyone on this forum is pushing Fran to make decisions; they are merely suggesting alternatives worth considering. When the rest of one’s life is dependent on a major life decision, all reasonable and semi-reasonable avenues should be carefully explored.
I have lived in rural US for many years as well as big cities and find most rural neighbors are much more friendly than city neighbors, especially toward actual owners of property. Most rural people I have encountered evaluate others on their own interactions as long as the newcomer doesn’t have to remind them how special they are because of their gender identity or religious belief. The whole aura around LGBTQ has changed a lot since Fran lived in a rural area.
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These are the places on Loopnet near Philly that are under $10/sqft/year
But I've tried to find her places before and I know she wants me and other to stop looking for her, it seems to upset her if you even try :(
Heck, putting the feelers out might be able to net her a cheap barn or something someoen isn't using. Better than just scrapping it all.
Some people just seem to be hell bent on their own destruction, I really think there is some sort of mental illness going on here because nothing adds up in any rational way. On a smaller scale I've encountered a few people who behave the same way. They get themselves into a doomed situation and then patently reject every suggestion of a viable solution and stubbornly continue on their downward spiral. After seeing it happen a few times I just stopped getting caught up in the drama and victimhood. As I said earlier, the old saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" applies here. Fran has been offered multiple solutions and has rejected every one of them outright. Fine, the train is speeding toward the end of the line and I'm done making any attempts to stop it.
While I get your reasoning, no one public-facing shares everything publicly.
It's highly likely there are other limiting factors we don't know because she doesn't share them with us.
So recommending life-altering solutions to problems based solely on the info she has shared is pretty pointless.
IMHO
It's easy to assume we know everything that is going on in someone's life but we never do.
It's never as simple as it seems.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
It's good to know but still is just a temporary bandage. She needs to find a definite solution.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
It's good to know but still is just a temporary bandage. She needs to find a definite solution.
Maybe. Or maybe not. Nothing is definitive in life anyway.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
I think she had a reasonably good argument about existing subscribers going up a level. Having $1 / 2 / 3.14 / 5 levels might seem to make sense if you just want to increase the number of subscribers, but anyone who watches much can pay $2 as easily as $1. At least that's true in the US.
It is too bad about her pedal business. To make that work she would need to team up with someone entirely outside the pedal/guitar/music crowd to get away from whatever issues happened there. I don't suppose we'll see her on Shark Tank, but something like that done privately might be a winner.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
It's good to know but still is just a temporary bandage. She needs to find a definite solution.
Maybe. Or maybe not. Nothing is definitive in life anyway.
This kind of crisis has happened practically ever year for the last 4-5 years now, and Patreon income has been naturally dropping for most creators as it happend to her. She was lucky to get the boost again this time I think.
I'd put the odds at 90% we are here again by this time next year.
Anyway, it's made me think about my spaces and how I'm not using them to their full advantage. I have 123sqm of total space, the bunker is a dump, and the dungeon is in danger of becoming one also.
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Anyway, it's made me think about my spaces and how I'm not using them to their full advantage. I have 123sqm of total space, the bunker is a dump, and the dungeon is in danger of becoming one also.
You could run a gaming den or possibly a bath house, if you um, wanna get your hands dirty.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
I'm afraid this won't be sustainable. And it must be humiliating. These videos essentially boil down to begging: "Please give me more money, not because I have something new and interesting to offer, but because I need it now."
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I don't know what it's like overseas but here in Melbourne rental prices have been increasing exponentially, to the point where many simply cannot afford to keep a roof over their heads anymore. I go for long walks almost daily and it's quite disturbing to see the number of properties with a For Rent sign and peoples possessions stacked out on the nature strip.
Even some poor kids Peri the Panda got left behind. :( :'(
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
Right, until the exact same thing happens again within a year or two because nothing has changed. A recession is looming so her income is likely to drop sharply in the near future. Business as usual is the whole problem here, she's continuing down the same bone headed path that caused the previous crises and another will follow. I don't even know why people continue to hand her money, I would have stopped supporting after seeing how futile it was before. I enjoy Fran's technical videos but I have zero interest in the drama and self induced messes. This is one of those times when the cost of staying in one's comfort zone is enormous. It's even more frustrating when I just cannot even fathom why someone would so stubbornly choose such a shit hole to live in when there's an entire country to choose from, especially when the stated goal is safety. Philly is not as safe as most of the country by any measure, this is an objectively true fact.
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Extremely & obsessively hard headed.......and thats it.
Ian.
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I don't know what it's like overseas but here in Melbourne rental prices have been increasing exponentially, to the point where many simply cannot afford to keep a roof over their heads anymore.
Not a major increase in commercial rents in my business part. But I'm glad I don't rent any more and downsized back to the windowsless place that I own. I could still have afforded to rent that place at $32k/year, and it's twice the size as my one and has windows. But I'd be paying for the lifestyle and more room to put my junk.
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
Right, until the exact same thing happens again within a year or two because nothing has changed. A recession is looming so her income is likely to drop sharply in the near future.
For my contrary opinion that nobody asked for, here's mine albeit perhaps just a theory at this stage.
If a for-real zombie apocalypse happens, Fran might be better off there, from a security standpoint.
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For my contrary opinion that nobody asked for, here's mine albeit perhaps just a theory at this stage.
If a for-real zombie apocalypse happens, Fran might be better off there, from a security standpoint.
I'm thinking she's using the "The Devil you know is better than the Devil you don't know" line of thinking.
Or perhaps Hamlet's thinking process -
"The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry
And lose the name of action."
OK I'll go away now. :)
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Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
The continuum of support shows how the base pulls through in times of need, but it resembles the scenario of giving money to an addict. I ceased support after a series of ranting videos about the insufferable weight of her life choices, despite having enough clout to do unimaginable things such as changing Google results about her or being able to financially pull out of crisis after crisis.
The criticism about suggestions provided by outsiders is impossible to curb, especially when the reasons and line of thought are supposedly made public. I mentioned years ago: when you receive money from someone, it can come with a slight loss of leverage on what you do, as spending choices start to become much more scrutinized by the public (such as the flight school or the near space event).
I only hope she does not burn her credibility for new supporters and stretch the patience of her existing by having yet another unfallible plan that pretty much resembles the former one. The supporters may feel they are giving money to someone that is not making reasonable monetary decisions and the risk of a steep drop in income is quite real.
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As long there are sympathizers, fans, admirers and etc to be milked on, "for years", why stop ?
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Such a safe and wonderful place to live, full of brotherhood...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ1Wq7gHSyI
There is none so blind as he who will not see..... :horse:
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As long there are sympathizers, fans, admirers and etc to be milked on, "for years", why stop ?
I would not advocate stopping, I mean it's free money that is given voluntarily, I wouldn't expect anyone to turn that down. I just don't care about her struggles anymore because they are self induced, I agree with the comment above that it's a bit like giving money to an addict, it's just enabling poor choices and it is IMHO a poor investment. If she were purchasing a permanent location with the money then I would consider contributing but when I spend money I expect a solution, not just kicking the can down the road. The Fran rent crisis keeps happening over and over, because she's doing the same thing over and over and steadfastly refusing to do anything differently to change the outcome. The end result eventually is that something is going to force her hand, and change will come out of necessity, and she will have much less control over the outcome than if she had made the change happen herself.
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Such a safe and wonderful place to live, full of brotherhood...
The Open Society :-+
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Extremely & obsessively hard headed.......and thats it.
Well, asking for help and denying any solution that is not what the person had in mind initially is an extremely common behavior.
We unfortunately see this on a regular basis with clients. (Whoever has never run into this issue with a client, please raise your hand!) This can be very, very frustrating.
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These are the places on Loopnet near Philly that are under $10/sqft/year
But I've tried to find her places before and I know she wants me and other to stop looking for her, it seems to upset her if you even try :(
[...]
I doubt she's upset with you so much as she's upset with the facts that you are sharing. Stubborn people often get upset while fighting off their stubbornness.
Just a guess: maybe she wants people to know how awful bigots and landlords are and she's willing to go broke to prove it.
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With so much money contributed she should have purchased a place when the first eviction happened, end of story for me.
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With so much money contributed she should have purchased a place when the first eviction happened, end of story for me.
I agree. But some people are just so stuck in their ways and people around them enabling them to continue their bad behaviour. I watched some episodes from a US TV series called hoarders. It is about people that got stuck in their situation (by hoarding stuff) and only a serious intervention + therapy can help them crawl out of the hole they dug for themselves.
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As long there are sympathizers, fans, admirers and etc to be milked on, "for years", why stop ?
You don't stop what's working, but if you are smart then you realise you are on the edge all the time and plan accordingly. In this case that would be dramatically lower expenses and save as much cash for when you inevitably fall on the bad side of the edge again.
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Not only hoarders, but there were also shows about the lives of über-overweight people and there was always an enabler behind the scenes, as the people themselves were sometimes unable to even leave their beds or houses, let alone go out to buy groceries. These relationships were usually based on guilt with a very controlling person - something similar to the current fad of glorifying obese people.
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Such a safe and wonderful place to live, full of brotherhood...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ1Wq7gHSyI
Wow, I checked.
I know there are bad neighborhods in every city, but damn.
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These are the places on Loopnet near Philly that are under $10/sqft/year
But I've tried to find her places before and I know she wants me and other to stop looking for her, it seems to upset her if you even try :(
[...]
I doubt she's upset with you so much as she's upset with the facts that you are sharing. Stubborn people often get upset while fighting off their stubbornness.
FYI, she just sent me lengthy email thanking me for my help and concern. We are in regular contact about this stuff. Problem is the engineer in me wants to help solve the problem and I go overboard by doing the research to try and find her alternatives, I can't help myself :-\
From the original gofundme video she said she needs about 2000sqft
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Here I am doing it again :palm:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1724-Ridge-Ave-Philadelphia-PA/26394808/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/1724-Ridge-Ave-Philadelphia-PA/26394808/)
2000sqft office space smack in Philly downtown, new build, $10.80/sqft/year, or $21k a year.
Sure it's not factory, but you can do electronics and basic mechnical in an office environment. Ditch the lathe and heavy industry gear.
So with her apartment, surely that wouldn't come out less than the $90k expenses (minus misc utilities, say $10k) she's paying now?
If she just gave a slightly better budget breakdown she could crowd source a cheaper solution. I'm not even trying here.
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I don't know about the exact area, but a really nice smick 3BR apartment in downtown philly is $1465/mo or $17,580/year.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1810-W-Susquehanna-Ave-1834-Philadelphia-PA-19121/2080049285_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1810-W-Susquehanna-Ave-1834-Philadelphia-PA-19121/2080049285_zpid/)
One BD to sleep in, one for an office, one for a small electronics lab.
That leaves an awful lot left over from her current $90k/year spend for an additional office/industrial space?
Have I got this wrong? :-//
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5BR almost 2000sqft she is after for $2649/month = $31,800/year.
She said it's all currently "8 large rooms", so just ditch the "factory" and 5 rooms + living area would be enough maybe? :-//
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1315-N-15th-St-1517-3F-Philadelphia-PA-19121/2062271599_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1315-N-15th-St-1517-3F-Philadelphia-PA-19121/2062271599_zpid/)
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I just got confirmation that Philly is indeed an absolute unsafe shit hole. I'm bowing out helping her stay there :(
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<<<
That's 35k posts Dave. :clap:
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Let us not forget, its just over the bridge neighbour, Camden New Jersey...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD_DSYr7OyQ
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I just got confirmation that Philly is indeed an absolute unsafe shit hole. I'm bowing out helping her stay there :(
youtuber Nick Johnson drives around rough areas and offers commentary
https://youtu.be/N3LiT1-YC9A
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These are the places on Loopnet near Philly that are under $10/sqft/year
But I've tried to find her places before and I know she wants me and other to stop looking for her, it seems to upset her if you even try :(
[...]
I doubt she's upset with you so much as she's upset with the facts that you are sharing. Stubborn people often get upset while fighting off their stubbornness.
FYI, she just sent me lengthy email thanking me for my help and concern. We are in regular contact about this stuff. Problem is the engineer in me wants to help solve the problem and I go overboard by doing the research to try and find her alternatives, I can't help myself :-\
From the original gofundme video she said she needs about 2000sqft
Sounds like you've found some solutions so that's a win. Convincing her to try them is a whole other problem.
It's nice to get a look into the thinking behind a strong desire to live in a specific area. This is common in Canada and I've never understood it. Tons of space and great cities where homes cost 1/4 and wages pay 1.5x what they do in our 5 biggest cities. Those are some of the least affordable cities in the world, people overcrowd them and refuse to leave even if it means living in a tent.
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Here's more interesting videos
https://youtu.be/aQfDxQRVf78
https://youtu.be/lzuFD4QcBVk
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I just got confirmation that Philly is indeed an absolute unsafe shit hole. I'm bowing out helping her stay there :(
It really depends upon exactly where she is, Philly is really about ten cities sharing the same name. West Philly, Kensington, Mayfair, Fishtown and several others are downright war zones as seen in that Kensington video, which has some of the worst drug use in the US.
The Northeast, Center City and parts of south Philly would be much safer but still way higher crimes rates than the suburbs. I’m about 40 miles northwest of the city and crime rate here is incredibly low. Some property crime but it’s rare, personal crime is virtually zero. I open my windows and all I hear are the birds and the livestock across the road.
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Sounds like you've found some solutions so that's a win. Convincing her to try them is a whole other problem.
Fran has contacted me about this, and I can guarantee that's not going to happen :(
I won't go into further details. All I can say is do not try and suggest alternatives, she doesn't want them.
I wish her the best of luck with the Patreon income, I hope it can keep her afloat.
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Let Nature take its course.
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I just got confirmation that Philly is indeed an absolute unsafe shit hole. I'm bowing out helping her stay there :(
The same can be said for many places in the US, cities & small towns alike. Philly is just the most recent to end up in the spotlight for it's problems. While the problems are very real, they're not all that unique. Often the metrics used to gauge how dangerous or bad a place is here are deeply flawed.
That being said, as a FranLab patreon supporter going back quite a few years, I'm somewhat unsure what I'm supporting at this point. I still enjoy many of her uploads, but the last few years it's started to feel like I'm just supporting someone to make videos about needing more support.
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the engineer in me wants to help solve the problem
I think it's the liberal in you, trying to prove to yourself something that you believe.
AI could accurately predict the next 399 pages of this thread.
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Not only hoarders, but there were also shows about the lives of über-overweight people and there was always an enabler behind the scenes, as the people themselves were sometimes unable to even leave their beds or houses, let alone go out to buy groceries. These relationships were usually based on guilt with a very controlling person - something similar to the current fad of glorifying obese people.
I saw one of those shows once, I couldn't even watch more of it, it's too frustrating. You're absolutely right, there is ALWAYS an enabler, these people were too fat to get out of their bedroom, that should be self limiting, if you can't get to the kitchen you can't eat.
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the engineer in me wants to help solve the problem
I think it's the liberal in you, trying to prove to yourself something that you believe.
And what do I "believe"?
That there is a solution to Fran's financial problems? Yes, I believe that, in fact I'm pretty sure it's demonstrably true. But it's not up to me to make the leap.
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Sounds like you've found some solutions so that's a win. Convincing her to try them is a whole other problem.
Fran has contacted me about this, and I can guarantee that's not going to happen :(
I won't go into further details. All I can say is do not try and suggest alternatives, she doesn't want them.
I wish her the best of luck with the Patreon income, I hope it can keep her afloat.
I get why Fran wants to stay. Likely all her friends are nearby so it is not just her home but also her social life that is in Philly. Many people really do need their social circle with them while others are of the 'where my hat is, is my home' type.
Still it would be good to question Fran on needing so much space. From a business perspective the question is: is the stuff worth spending so much money on for the rent? I'm a bit of a hoarder myself but nowadays I also look at the cost of storing stuff and keeping track of what I already have. In many cases buying new and throwing leftovers in the bin is cheaper than storing the leftovers (which you may never use).
My own example: Recently I came across a bit of expensive cable for a project for one of my customers. The last time I built one of the devices, I bought new cable because I didn't know I still had that cable. That is just money wasted twice (the bin I stored the cable in, isn't free either). :palm:
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Sounds like you've found some solutions so that's a win. Convincing her to try them is a whole other problem.
Fran has contacted me about this, and I can guarantee that's not going to happen :(
I won't go into further details. All I can say is do not try and suggest alternatives, she doesn't want them.
I wish her the best of luck with the Patreon income, I hope it can keep her afloat.
I get why Fran wants to stay. Likely all her friends are nearby so it is not just her home but also her social life that is in Philly.
That is why this time I suggested staying in her place and simply consolidating the other three spaces into one slightly further away that she can (safely) commute to in order to slash expenses at the small inconvenience of a commute. I have been told this is not an option. There is no option at all as it turns out.
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Another youtuber with space constraints and waaaaaaay too much stuff is Techmoan. Space can be tight in England and he found out years ago, for marital harmony at least, a remote storage solution is the thing. He often has to drag items out and back to the house for a video.
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Another youtuber with space constraints and waaaaaaay too much stuff is Techmoan. Space can be tight in England and he found out years ago, for marital harmony at least, a remote storage solution is the thing. He often has to drag items out and back to the house for a video.
Has he done a video on that?
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Another youtuber with space constraints and waaaaaaay too much stuff is Techmoan. Space can be tight in England and he found out years ago, for marital harmony at least, a remote storage solution is the thing. He often has to drag items out and back to the house for a video.
Has he done a video on that?
I wanna say prolly not cos of the value of much of the stuff he's got tucked away.
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There is no option at all as it turns out.
Well, there you have it.
I'm sorry to hear that Fran has determined she has no options, but that being the case, there's nothing that can be done.
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Such a safe and wonderful place to live, full of brotherhood...
There is none so blind as he who will not see..... :horse:
Wow. Didn't expect that place to have its own Wikipedia entry...
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Sounds like you've found some solutions so that's a win. Convincing her to try them is a whole other problem.
Fran has contacted me about this, and I can guarantee that's not going to happen :(
I won't go into further details. All I can say is do not try and suggest alternatives, she doesn't want them.
I wish her the best of luck with the Patreon income, I hope it can keep her afloat.
I get why Fran wants to stay. Likely all her friends are nearby so it is not just her home but also her social life that is in Philly.
That is why this time I suggested staying in her place and simply consolidating the other three spaces into one slightly further away that she can (safely) commute to in order to slash expenses at the small inconvenience of a commute. I have been told this is not an option. There is no option at all as it turns out.
And the real kicker is that with the income she generates, a serious reduction of expenses can quickly build up enough cash at hand to buy her own place (or at least do a significant downpayment that makes getting a mortgage for the rest of the sum not so much of a problem). Suddenly gentrification becomes a blessing because the house becomes worth more without needing to do anything (except making sure that property taxes can be paid).
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Well, there you have it.
I'm sorry to hear that Fran has determined she has no options, but that being the case, there's nothing that can be done.
I'm increasingly convinced that this is some form of self destructive behavior. There are lots of options, lots of places that are not only much safer but also cheaper and have everything she's looking for and she has categorically pushed all of those off the table without even looking. Staying in Philly indefinitely while relying on donations is not feasible, especially if she gets too focused on her living situation and drama instead of playing with interesting technical stuff. I expect her income will drop sharply over the next couple of years as the recession settles in and people all over start cutting unnecessary expenses like supporting youtube producers and focus on supporting themselves. This might also cause rent to drop a bit but not enough to keep up with the drop in income. This sort of thing is very frustrating for me because I'm a very rational and logic driven person. I don't want to move somewhere else but if I were faced with Fran's circumstances I would be actively exploring other areas in search of somewhere I find suitable. I'm quite certain that after a few months I would feel at home in any number of towns across the US.
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I'm increasingly convinced that this is some form of self destructive behavior. [...]
Not referring to your post only, but to several others before: I think this kind of public remote psycho-analysis is quite impertinent and intrusive.
You (and I) might not agree with Fran's decisions. But do you really feel that entitles to try and dissect her (perceived) personality in public? We are talking about a real human being here, who may or may not read this, and who may have deep personal motives for her decisions. Could you leave her alone please?
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..... Could you leave her alone please?
To some extend I agree with you, but on the other hand she made herself a public figure and invites people to donate money to solve her problems. Sure it does not give the right to psycho analyze her behavior, but going on Dave his comments she is not open to helpful suggestions and that can make people wonder and speculate. It is what happens when you put yourself out there on youtube or whatever public platform.
And looking back in this thread shows it happened before, and some speculate it will happen again.
Edit: And don't forget some people thrive on this kind of talk about them. Want nothing more than being in the public eye. I'm not saying that this is the case here.
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I think this might just be our engineering reflexes at work -- trying to troubleshoot a problem from a distance by forming hypotheses and making debugging suggestions. But what is great when trying to help with a technical problem might be inappropriate when addressing personal matters.
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And Patreon as a company may go tits up, can't exclude that possibility.
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I think this might just be our engineering reflexes at work -- trying to troubleshoot a problem from a distance by forming hypotheses and making debugging suggestions. But what is great when trying to help with a technical problem might be inappropriate when addressing personal matters.
Maybe, but we are all humans and have possible insights in other things then engineering.
Crisis averted.
I heard from Fran that Patrons have come through and made up the loss, so it's business as usual, at least for now. She'll do a follow-up video.
I'm afraid this won't be sustainable. And it must be humiliating. These videos essentially boil down to begging: "Please give me more money, not because I have something new and interesting to offer, but because I need it now."
But apart from psycho analyzing, you participated yourself too, in offering some interpretation of the situation and what emotions it could bring. (No offense, just the devils advocate)
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I'm increasingly convinced that this is some form of self destructive behavior. [...]
Not referring to your post only, but to several others before: I think this kind of public remote psycho-analysis is quite impertinent and intrusive.
You (and I) might not agree with Fran's decisions. But do you really feel that entitles to try and dissect her (perceived) personality in public? We are talking about a real human being here, who may or may not read this, and who may have deep personal motives for her decisions. Could you leave her alone please?
OTOH you can reason that her videos are a cry for help in some form. Yes, more psycho analysing. However, if Fran didn't want to have this part of her life discussed publicly, then I doubt she would have made repeated video content with her sharing / discussing her financials and living situation. I'm not saying that public figures have no right to a personal life, but bringing parts of their personal life out in the open means other people are going to have an opinion about it and discuss it in public.
I have no doubt everyone here is aware Fran is a real human being who is facing some very though choices and everyone here wishes her the best.
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It's hard seeing someone struggle with finances particularly when they have so much technical skills. The main reason I'm trying to acquire technical skills is so I don't struggle with finances.
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Maybe, but we are all humans and have possible insights in other things then engineering.
My point was that these insights should be offered in a different way than technical advice. And some should not be offered at all, or at least not in a public forum, in my opinion.
But apart from psycho analyzing, you participated yourself too, in offering some interpretation of the situation and what emotions it could bring. (No offense, just the devils advocate)
Sure. But I believe I drew the line on the right side of "intrusive". (Which is a judgement call of course; others might draw their lines elsewhere.)
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It's hard seeing someone struggle with finances particularly when they have so much technical skills. The main reason I'm trying to acquire technical skills is so I don't struggle with finances.
Having technical skills is no guarantee to a healthy financial situation. Being able to spend your money in a sensible way is of much more importance.
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Maybe, but we are all humans and have possible insights in other things then engineering.
My point was that these insights should be offered in a different way than technical advice. And some should not be offered at all, or at least not in a public forum, in my opinion.
But apart from psycho analyzing, you participated yourself too, in offering some interpretation of the situation and what emotions it could bring. (No offense, just the devils advocate)
Sure. But I believe I drew the line on the right side of "intrusive". (Which is a judgement call of course; others might draw their lines elsewhere.)
I agree, and will refrain from participating in talks about her. But by responding to you I'm know trapped in this thread :-DD
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Fran is a genuine creative person with a passion for space, technology and engineering.
Through her Fran Lab channel she has become an excellent science communicator and, ambassador for the big picture.
Fran deserves our universal respect for her long standing efforts and, our understanding for the circumstance in which she finds herself.
You go girl :-+
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Not referring to your post only, but to several others before: I think this kind of public remote psycho-analysis is quite impertinent and intrusive.
You (and I) might not agree with Fran's decisions. But do you really feel that entitles to try and dissect her (perceived) personality in public? We are talking about a real human being here, who may or may not read this, and who may have deep personal motives for her decisions. Could you leave her alone please?
Yes, when somebody makes their dirty laundry very public as Fran has done, then I absolutely feel entitled to analyze anything I can using any information that has been given to me. I am not rooting through her private emails, hacked documents or spying on her at home with a telescope, I am merely looking at what she has presented to the world and presenting a hypothesis based on what I'm seeing. If you don't want people trying to remotely psycho-analyze you, don't put your unusual behavior on public display for the world to see.
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I'm kinda wondering if she got the Microelectronics book I sent at an inconvenient time, either just before or after her last move...
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Whatever her problem is, Python can solve it. :)
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And the real kicker is that with the income she generates, a serious reduction of expenses can quickly build up enough cash at hand to buy her own place (or at least do a significant downpayment that makes getting a mortgage for the rest of the sum not so much of a problem).
She would still have the very real problem of not being able to get a mortgage, being a self employed (and single) Youtuber where Patreon is not actually considered income. It sucks, especially in the US I've heard. But still, I'm sure there would be a way to do, but again, she'd have to be willing to move I think. Although I do recall her saying in a video at one point that she could actually afford a mortage for a place in Philly if she were able to get a loan. Don't know if that's still the case. But either way, she'd still have the factory and two storage units rented.
I spent something like 5 years looking for a suitable storage unit for sale in my business park, it was not easy. But I eventually nabbed the biggest and best storage unit in the park.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBZWIF-MgOI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBZWIF-MgOI)
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And the real kicker is that with the income she generates, a serious reduction of expenses can quickly build up enough cash at hand to buy her own place (or at least do a significant downpayment that makes getting a mortgage for the rest of the sum not so much of a problem).
She would still have the very real problem of not being able to get a mortgage, being a self employed (and single) Youtuber where Patreon is not actually considered income. It sucks, especially in the US I've heard.
and afaiu getting a mortgage for a business is even worse
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And the real kicker is that with the income she generates, a serious reduction of expenses can quickly build up enough cash at hand to buy her own place (or at least do a significant downpayment that makes getting a mortgage for the rest of the sum not so much of a problem).
She would still have the very real problem of not being able to get a mortgage, being a self employed (and single) Youtuber where Patreon is not actually considered income. It sucks, especially in the US I've heard.
and afaiu getting a mortgage for a business is even worse
Yes.
Coincidently, this video showed up as recommended, Google is spooky...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VFaCQLjEY)
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It's difficult but not impossible, people do manage to do it. My mom is self employed and she bought her house, granted that was around 20 years ago. Fran could find somebody to cosign, or she could have downsized greatly the first time this happened and started saving up money for a large downpayment. Once a place is owned she could rent out a room or turn part of it into a separate unit for supplemental income.
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It's difficult but not impossible, people do manage to do it. My mom is self employed and she bought her house, granted that was around 20 years ago. Fran could find somebody to cosign, or she could have downsized greatly the first time this happened and started saving up money for a large downpayment. Once a place is owned she could rent out a room or turn part of it into a separate unit for supplemental income.
I suggested to Fran once about potentially doing some tricky company/trust structure so it appears as though she gets a wage from a normal company.
One of the major problems of course is that she doesn't have a partner. Dual incomes looks infinitely better to the banks.
In your 50's, single, and your income mostly coming from Patreon donations for the last few years, your application would go straight in the trash. Doesn't matter if you have a 20% deposit.
I'm surprised one of her viewers doesn't work in banking and could try and help out.
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It's hard seeing someone struggle with finances particularly when they have so much technical skills. The main reason I'm trying to acquire technical skills is so I don't struggle with finances.
There are no guarantees and it can happen to the best of us regardless of your technical skills, qualifications or life experiences. I was also self employed and built up successful business over decades with a fantastic client base and then found myself suddenly cursed with severe medical conditions at a really bad time. I had dozens of unfinished jobs and was sitting on huge amounts of expensive stock ordered specifically for those jobs.
I didn't anticipate getting so sick and due to time constraints and the complexity of the work I could not get anyone else to take over and complete the jobs. I could not invoice for the work I had completed so was never paid and ended up many tens of thousands out of pocket.
Long story short, I couldn't return to work and at 55 now find myself on full disability support after a five year tormenting battle with Centrelink (welfare my arse, they fabricate shit on the fly). Anyway, I have an entire garage and spare room stacked with stock, tools, gadgets and equipment which, in practical terms no longer has any value. I have extensive experience and knowledge in particular fields which now counts for nothing as I no longer have the ability to use or apply it.
Lessons learnt:
1. A plan B is not good enough, and neither is a plan Z, it can all turn to shit.
2. Buy only what you need when you need it, don't buy stuff on a whim.
3. Get deposits from customers, particularly where there are large outlays.
4. Friends and family are worth far more than your most valued customer.
5. Keep well, eat well and live well. All the bad stuff you do will come
back to bite you on the arse when you least expect it.
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It's hard seeing someone struggle with finances particularly when they have so much technical skills. The main reason I'm trying to acquire technical skills is so I don't struggle with finances.
There are no guarantees and it can happen to the best of us regardless of your technical skills, qualifications or life experiences. I was also self employed and built up successful business over decades with a fantastic client base and then found myself suddenly cursed with severe medical conditions at a really bad time. I had dozens of unfinished jobs and was sitting on huge amounts of expensive stock ordered specifically for those jobs.
I didn't anticipate getting so sick and due to time constraints and the complexity of the work I could not get anyone else to take over and complete the jobs. I could not invoice for the work I had completed so was never paid and ended up many tens of thousands out of pocket.
Long story short, I couldn't return to work and at 55 now find myself on full disability support after a five year tormenting battle with Centrelink (welfare my arse, they fabricate shit on the fly). Anyway, I have an entire garage and spare room stacked with stock, tools, gadgets and equipment which, in practical terms no longer has any value. I have extensive experience and knowledge in particular fields which now counts for nothing as I no longer have the ability to use or apply it.
Lessons learnt:
1. A plan B is not good enough, and neither is a plan Z, it can all turn to shit.
2. Buy only what you need when you need it, don't buy stuff on a whim.
3. Get deposits from customers, particularly where there are large outlays.
4. Friends and family are worth far more than your most valued customer.
5. Keep well, eat well and live well. All the bad stuff you do will come
back to bite you on the arse when you least expect it.
That must have been a really hard time. I hope things have at least improved somewhat with disability support.
In my late 30's now and I'm slowly learning these lessons. My hobbies switched from snowboarding, dirtbiking and video games to hiking, home renos and growing food. Much better for my finances and my health.
Having no skills pretty much guarantees bad finances. I've never thought tech skills guarantee good finances, but I think it increases the likelihood. I think a lot of people get into electronics hoping to invent something and make lots of money. That's always been my goal. With a side goal of earning a good income while working from home. I like to imagine once one acquires sufficient skills and resources, they can make that happen but I know there is a lot more to it. I watch Dragon's Den and Shark's Tank and get inspired and then I read about Fran here and think maybe I should focus on home renos and real estate.
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I can't give guidance in regards to being successful but will say one thing, be the best at what you do even if it means focusing on one particular product or field of electronics. If your focus is on the money you will never see it, if you focus on the work then money will follow. :)
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Whatever her problem is, Python can solve it. :)
AI can solve it!
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Whatever her problem is, Python can solve it. :)
I did post a Python script to manage Swagbucks mining (so that viewers can mine a bit of profit to give to her) but that's no longer profitable.
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Having no skills pretty much guarantees bad finances. I've never thought tech skills guarantee good finances, but I think it increases the likelihood. I think a lot of people get into electronics hoping to invent something and make lots of money. That's always been my goal. With a side goal of earning a good income while working from home. I like to imagine once one acquires sufficient skills and resources, they can make that happen but I know there is a lot more to it. I watch Dragon's Den and Shark's Tank and get inspired and then I read about Fran here and think maybe I should focus on home renos and real estate.
Having no skills virtually guarantees failure. Success is never guaranteed no matter what, but having skills certainly increases the odds, especially if they're marketable skills that relatively few other people have.
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Whatever her problem is, Python can solve it. :)
AI can solve it!
Windows 11. :-+
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Lessons learnt:
1. A plan B is not good enough, and neither is a plan Z, it can all turn to shit.
2. Buy only what you need when you need it, don't buy stuff on a whim.
3. Get deposits from customers, particularly where there are large outlays.
4. Friends and family are worth far more than your most valued customer.
5. Keep well, eat well and live well. All the bad stuff you do will come
back to bite you on the arse when you least expect it.
Good list :-+
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< snip list ....>
Good list :-+
I could waffle on for days about lessons learnt but won't, a very important lesson I should have included in that list was this:
6. Don't take on too much, focus and finish one task at a time or risk becoming overwhelmed and incapable of doing or completing anything.
This is in fact where I failed miserably, I took on too much and suffered as a result, it started with the heart then everything else fell apart. :(
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I have the same affliction as Dave: I keep looking for solutions and alternatives, when someone is in a bind (but is not necessarily asking for any). :-[
What I can offer, is this: Life is change.
Even when "I just want things to stay as they are", it is important to have options, because change always happens, sooner or later. Nothing alive stays unchanged for long; that's what being alive is.
It is even more important to consider options rationally, because what might feel awful and horrible and impossible now, might be the best thing ever the day after tomorrow.
Just because I believe this is the best place for me to be now and in the future, it may not be true at all. Opinions are opinions, and beliefs are beliefs, nothing more. They need to be carefully, critically, rationally examined, to find out the truth in them. I have definitely been mislead by my own opinions and beliefs before, and have suffered a lot because of not being prepared to change things. I'd hate to see others repeat my mistakes.
Seeing someone reject all alternatives because "I just want to things to stay as they are right now" reminds me of how I dug a hole for myself doing exactly that, and makes me thoroughly sad. I know, from experience, that that road only leads to unnecessary suffering. Better change things before the change is forced on you by reality, I say, while you have options and alternatives to choose from.
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I know of plenty of people who have resisted a move for as long as possible, but once they have done so have never looked back. Quite often they say they wish they had moved sooner. I guess most of us don't like change, but sometimes change is a part of life that helps us evolve and grow.
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I have the same affliction as Dave: I keep looking for solutions and alternatives, when someone is in a bind (but is not necessarily asking for any). :-[
What I can offer, is this: Life is change.
Even when "I just want things to stay as they are", it is important to have options, because change always happens, sooner or later. Nothing alive stays unchanged for long; that's what being alive is.
It is even more important to consider options rationally, because what might feel awful and horrible and impossible now, might be the best thing ever the day after tomorrow.
Just because I believe this is the best place for me to be now and in the future, it may not be true at all. Opinions are opinions, and beliefs are beliefs, nothing more. They need to be carefully, critically, rationally examined, to find out the truth in them. I have definitely been mislead by my own opinions and beliefs before, and have suffered a lot because of not being prepared to change things. I'd hate to see others repeat my mistakes.
Seeing someone reject all alternatives because "I just want to things to stay as they are right now" reminds me of how I dug a hole for myself doing exactly that, and makes me thoroughly sad. I know, from experience, that that road only leads to unnecessary suffering. Better change things before the change is forced on you by reality, I say, while you have options and alternatives to choose from.
Fran and I are good friends and we have dicussed this a lot over the last few years. And in the last few days since this video she has sent me even more extensive reasoning behind all this which gives me a greater insight into why she is doing what she is doing.
I won't disclose details, but suffice it to say that I don't agree with her reasoning. Indeed I thin kthat some of those reasons are glaring red lights that she should makes changes.
*snip* I removed some stuff, I can't help but talk too much about this. And it also kinda annoys me that I should stop for various reasons.
I have decided that whilst I will of course still be there to discuss it and help as a close friend if she asks, I won't make suggestions any more on the issue. She needs to make her own life choices. I wish her the best of luck, and she seems very happy again that the Patrons have come through again for her.
Sadly I suspect we'll be back here in 6-12 months, you can't continue to walk the tightrope forever.
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FYI, the video has been delisted as she was getting a lot of abuse in the comments.
As an aside, re the comments on the video about ebaying various parts and making some bank from that, I agree with Fran that it doesn't work like that. Some people don't realise how much work is involved in listing stuff like this on ebay.
I put off listing my hoard on ebay because of the work involved for ultimately not much financial return. And I've sold many hundreds of items on ebay over the years.
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I can't help but talk too much about this.
Hopefully she realizes that it is only because you're a friend, and care.
I have decided that whilst I will of course still be there to discuss it and help as a close friend if she asks, I won't make suggestions any more on the issue. She needs to make her own life choices. I wish her the best of luck, and she seems very happy again that the Patrons have come through again for her.
It's not easy to stop making suggestions to try and solve the problem, because that's the way many of us naturally show compassion and consideration.
But for sure, everyone must make their own life choices. It's just .. painful to see someone walk a road you know isn't safe, thinking this is the safest road for them.
FYI, the video has been delisted as she was getting a lot of abuse in the comments.
Opening up like that on a media like Youtube is surefire way to attract the attention of trolls and haters (people externalizing their own unhappiness in themselves by attacking others). Add to that asking for financial support, well, that's a red flag to many others, especially to those who don't have her resources or options to begin with, even if otherwise very supportive of Fran.
(I do not like to talk enjoy talking about my own history and issues, but do so because advice or opinion without context is not really useful: I use myself as a datum, necessary for my advice to have any relevance or context. I know how it changes some peoples' perspective of me, for the worse, when I do.)
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I can't help but talk too much about this.
Hopefully she realizes that it is only because you're a friend, and care.
She does.
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I put off listing my hoard on ebay because of the work involved for ultimately not much financial return.
Similar reasoning here for a mini-hoard, but I reckon it's worth doing for the space regained. Making a bit of dosh would be icing.
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I was a follower of Fran on youtube, not Patreon.
The old film content was interesting to me, but the 'rants' on other things were not.
The rants including the troubles regarding the lab do repeat without any sight of improvement (whatever reason may be behind it).
Therefore I decided to unfollow Fran on youtube.
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I put off listing my hoard on ebay because of the work involved for ultimately not much financial return.
Similar reasoning here for a mini-hoard, but I reckon it's worth doing for the space regained. Making a bit of dosh would be icing.
I unhoard regularly by putting everything in boxes and listing the whole lot on a local 2nd hand website. I do want 5 euro though because listing stuff for free attracts the wrong crowd.
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I unhoard regularly by putting everything in boxes and listing the whole lot on a local 2nd hand website. I do want 5 euro though because listing stuff for free attracts the wrong crowd.
I've listed stuff for free on Gumtree (local ebay owned site that's for face-face used stuff) and my phone has messages so quickly I couldn't get into the app to close the listing.
Recently got rid of that huge ultrasound machine carcass from my bunker, I thought surely no one would want it, but someone picked it up for free with a giant trailer.
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I put off listing my hoard on ebay because of the work involved for ultimately not much financial return.
Similar reasoning here for a mini-hoard, but I reckon it's worth doing for the space regained. Making a bit of dosh would be icing.
Yep, my bunker is currently filled with boxes of stuff from the old bigger lab and storage tubs with all sorts of crap. I moved out in a hurry and dumped it all there. I need to spend a few days sorting, tossing, and giving away stuff. Hard to find the time to justify it though when it doesn't really cost me anything to keep it there.
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The de-cluttering journey is its own growth process - in my experience longer than you imagined it would be but the keep/dispose choices are clearer and intuitive.
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You mean it's not normal to have boxes of 30 year old linear wall warts with voltages nothing uses anymore?
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Other towns and cities CAN become home very quickly. It's so sad that Fran is just so hard headed about this......not to mention, the more I think about it, the money she has received in these past few years from folks must amount to quite a big sum.......and that could have been put to much, MUCH better use.
Dave has always been completely public about EEVblog circumstances and when you follow it through across all his years I'd say not many people could have done any better........
Will Fran come out of this in the months/years to come?.......I highly, highly doubt it. I fear for her future.
Ian.
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I unhoard regularly by putting everything in boxes and listing the whole lot on a local 2nd hand website. I do want 5 euro though because listing stuff for free attracts the wrong crowd.
I do that too. Sometimes when the person gets here to collect it if they seem friendly I'll just say forget about the money and take it, but it's useful to filter out the bottom feeders and flippers.
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I've listed stuff for free on Gumtree (local ebay owned site that's for face-face used stuff) and my phone has messages so quickly I couldn't get into the app to close the listing.
Recently got rid of that huge ultrasound machine carcass from my bunker, I thought surely no one would want it, but someone picked it up for free with a giant trailer.
Probably a scrapper, they'll show up for anything containing metal.
Surely you have some friends that share your interest in various technical junk? I've helped several of my friends clean out storage units, they let me pick through it and take anything I'm interested in that they don't want and I help haul the rest to disposal.
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You mean it's not normal to have boxes of 30 year old linear wall warts with voltages nothing uses anymore?
I always grab linear ones when I find them, yeah they're less efficient but they're so much more reliable in always-on applications. The voltage is not much of an issue now since so many things have their own onboard regulators, broadband routers for example, they most often accept 12V but they will actually work fine on anything from about 5V to 20V or more. I was replacing the switching PSUs once every 2-3 years but a linear one will last decades.
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I've listed stuff for free on Gumtree (local ebay owned site that's for face-face used stuff) and my phone has messages so quickly I couldn't get into the app to close the listing.
Recently got rid of that huge ultrasound machine carcass from my bunker, I thought surely no one would want it, but someone picked it up for free with a giant trailer.
Probably a scrapper, they'll show up for anything containing metal.
Surely you have some friends that share your interest in various technical junk? I've helped several of my friends clean out storage units, they let me pick through it and take anything I'm interested in that they don't want and I help haul the rest to disposal.
Same here but sadly I've outlived almost all of my buddies that know anything about electronics or that are interested in electronics. My kids have zero interest and I think that once I'm gone that they're going to call in a dumpster and cleaning crew and just pitch everything.
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Same here but sadly I've outlived almost all of my buddies that know anything about electronics or that are interested in electronics. My kids have zero interest and I think that once I'm gone that they're going to call in a dumpster and cleaning crew and just pitch everything.
That's a shame. Hopefully you can sort out the most valuable stuff and put it in a separate place. Certainly stuff like test gear is easy to unload, I've been consistently shocked at how high prices have been on that stuff since Covid came along. I haven't found any bargains on ebay since then.
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Asking prices have just gotten plain STUPID on Ebay! I keep looking but I haven't bought any TE there for several years now.
But I've ran out of patience dealing with excessive charges from E-bay, PayPal and the various shipping companies and with the Ebay fraudsters. IMO, it's not worth the head aches to try to sell anything there any more. I'm just going to hang onto my TE until I kick the bucket, and then it's going to be someone else's problem!
I've taken some good TE to the local hamfests but no one seems to know what most of it is any more. The only thing that most buyers are interested in is very late model radios or TE that they can buy for 20% of it's value and then flip on E-Greed. I'm convinced that most "buyers" there have no knowledge or interest in electronics and are just E-flippers.
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Asking prices have just gotten plain STUPID on Ebay! I keep looking but I haven't bought any TE there for several years now.
The heyday of bargain shopping on eBay is about five years in the past, now it's more about serendipity. Either for TE or 8 bit computer junk.
You have to search for typos or general descriptions and you can get lucky.
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Well there are plenty of people on here looking to buy test equipment, although generally they're looking for bargain prices. Local outlets like craigslist and facebook marketplace might be worth trying too, there isn't much on there and what does turn up is usually inflated prices so if you set fair prices you might unload it pretty quick.
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She has released a new video on Patreon about FranLab 3.0 from the factory.
TLDR;
She works for the Patrons now, not Youtube subscribers, and is asking for a people to help out with Youtube comment moderation.
Off the hampster wheel of daily videos, back to projects and more videos in the factory with new lighting and sound upgrades.
Sounds great from a content point of view, but no changes to the financial situation. She mentioned she's good for a least another quarter.
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I'm really not a fan of Patreon. If they supported one-time donations there are content producers I'd support occasionally, but I have a severe allergy to recurring subscription bills.
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Well that good news at least, all this talk of getting rid of perfectly good equipment and spare parts was starting to sound like heresy.
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I think she deserves a new thread. She's not getting evicted, that's way out of date.
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Yes, lets call the new thread "FranLab's serial begging"
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and is asking for a people to help out with Youtube comment moderation.
:-DD
Fuck that.
Sounds great from a content point of view, but no changes to the financial situation. She mentioned she's good for a least another quarter.
A Patreon audience can certainly carry you. But you have to keep asking the audience what they want to see and then do that content. That's a treadmill if there ever was one. I wish her all the best. I'm happy when people walk away from bloody youtube but not for this reason, obviously. Nag her to release occasional content on YT and ODSY to keep jagging new Patreons.
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and is asking for a people to help out with Youtube comment moderation.
Fuck that.
Why? From a creator perspective it's rather helpful, especially for those who can't handle the bad comments, or get so many of them it's overwhelming.
Very common. Louis Rossmann has them for example, and he strikes me as a guy who can handle flack like a boss. In fact he gave me moderator privledges on his channel.
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and is asking for a people to help out with Youtube comment moderation.
Fuck that.
Why? From a creator perspective it's rather helpful, especially for those who can't handle the bad comments, or get so many of them it's overwhelming.
Very common. Louis Rossmann has them for example, and he strikes me as a guy who can handle flack like a boss. In fact he gave me moderator privledges on his channel.
Whilst I see your point, yt comments can be a dumpster fire. The algo seems to work against everybody. A good community will shout down the numpties. But at the same time she's saying to the yt audience the focus is elsewhere. I'm following the logic but not the sense.
edit: I added more to the above post to try and balance out the response.
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I think she deserves a new thread. She's not getting evicted, that's way out of date.
Best to keep everything in the one serial thread. And she's actually been evicted twice already, a third one is sadly not out of the bounds of possibility.
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Whilst I see your point, yt comments can be a dumpster fire. The algo seems to work against everybody. A good community will shout down the numpties. But at the same time she's saying to the yt audience the focus is elsewhere. I'm following the logic but not the sense.
That's the risk. Ignoring Youtube in favour of focussing on Patrons.
Seems obvious because the major bulk of revenue comes from Patreon, but as a creator on Patreon I can tell you it's rather weird, and Fran's audience on Patreon is no different.
By weird I mean that you'd think that your paying Patrons are the most loyal audience who will watch every video you release and vote in every poll etc, but that's not actually the case.
When I (and other creators) release a video early on Patreon as one of the perks, we are lucky to see 10% of the Patrons actually watch the video (and it's easy to get that stat). Same goes for polls on Patreon, maybe 10% might respond.
A lot of us creators have actually discussed this stuff many times over the years, and what are the benefits of actually releasing videos and other perks early on Patreon. When it seems that the majority (say 90%) of Patron just see it as some sort of automatic donation because they like your channel.
So the risk if you try and focus on Patrons exclusively, you might lose the potential 90% or whatever that are just ordinary Youtube subscribers.
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A lot of us creators have actually discussed this stuff many times over the years, and what are the benefits of actually releasing videos and other perks early on Patreon. When it seems that the majority (say 90%) of Patron just see it as some sort of automatic donation because they like your channel.
So the risk if you try and focus on Patrons exclusively, you might lose the potential 90% or whatever that are just ordinary Youtube subscribers.
As an example, here is a behidn the scenes video I released to Patrons. It has 87 views from over 1000 Patrons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrIl-abYOyg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrIl-abYOyg)
But I will revise my number on polls. My last poll on Patreon got 175 responses, but that's still only like 15% response.
My current pre-release video on Patreon has 61 views.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BScnU4BT4xk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BScnU4BT4xk)
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I think it's the liberal in you, trying to prove to yourself something that you believe.
And what do I "believe"?
That there is a solution to Fran's financial problems? Yes, I believe that, in fact I'm pretty sure it's demonstrably true. But it's not up to me to make the leap.
Well, if there is a solution, and if it's a simple one, why it hasn't been applied yet?
Political correctness blinds you (and others) to a big red flag: you are dealing with somebody deeply and obsessively involved in engineering how others perceive them, even beyond the usual scope of the "politically correct" issue that you may think explains it. I recall you noticed something like that at one point and remarked it's unhealthy, but I don't think you appreciate full implications of your own statement.
My experience with people so devoted to perception engineering is that no matter what it is they try to engineer, they share a few common traits: their personal lives are a constant and all-around mess of incomprehensible dimensions, it's all tediously hidden from bystanders behind more perception engineering, until it can't be contained and blows up and leaks into professional or public life, and then people are caught by surprise and don't know how to react and try to help by addressing whatever tip of the iceberg issue they can see. If you are in this position, your best bet is probably going to patreon.com ::)
About this case you surely know more than I do, I have just watched a few videos linked on the forum and correlated with other events.
There is likely still much more to be known than you know.
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About this case you surely know more than I do, I have just watched a few videos linked on the forum and correlated with other events.
There is likely still much more to be known than you know.
Correct, I know a lot more about this than most people.
I stand by my comment, there are solutions to the financial situation, but she is the one that has to make the leap, and be comfortable doing it.
Of course they aren't easy solutions from her point of view, otherwise she would have taken them already.
Fortunately the Patrons have come through and she doesn't have to make any changes, at least for a while. In fact she seems very happy again and we can expect some great content.
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So the risk if you try and focus on Patrons exclusively, you might lose the potential 90% or whatever that are just ordinary Youtube subscribers.
The way I see it is that Patreon and YouTube work hand in hand. You watch content on YouTube and support the creator through Patreon. So yes, YouTube is important. I noticed many creators ask to support them through Patreon.
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Whilst I see your point, yt comments can be a dumpster fire. The algo seems to work against everybody. A good community will shout down the numpties. But at the same time she's saying to the yt audience the focus is elsewhere. I'm following the logic but not the sense.
That's the risk. Ignoring Youtube in favour of focussing on Patrons.
Seems obvious because the major bulk of revenue comes from Patreon, but as a creator on Patreon I can tell you it's rather weird, and Fran's audience on Patreon is no different.
I'd expect YouTube to be the major funnel to Patreon patronage for most video creators; is that not the case?
If so, ignoring the realities of YouTube seems unwise, even if you only need Patreon to stay steady or grow very slowly.
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I'd expect YouTube to be the major funnel to Patreon patronage for most video creators; is that not the case?
If so, ignoring the realities of YouTube seems unwise, even if you only need Patreon to stay steady or grow very slowly.
Yes it is the case.
Massive Patreon creators like AvE could probbaly survive for many years off their 10,000+ Patrons by only posting content exclusively on there. But sooner or later Patrons are going dwindle away and you won't have anything on Youtube brining in a new audience to replace them.
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That's the risk. Ignoring Youtube in favour of focussing on Patrons.
Seems obvious because the major bulk of revenue comes from Patreon, but as a creator on Patreon I can tell you it's rather weird, and Fran's audience on Patreon is no different.
By weird I mean that you'd think that your paying Patrons are the most loyal audience who will watch every video you release and vote in every poll etc, but that's not actually the case.
When I (and other creators) release a video early on Patreon as one of the perks, we are lucky to see 10% of the Patrons actually watch the video (and it's easy to get that stat). Same goes for polls on Patreon, maybe 10% might respond.
A lot of us creators have actually discussed this stuff many times over the years, and what are the benefits of actually releasing videos and other perks early on Patreon. When it seems that the majority (say 90%) of Patron just see it as some sort of automatic donation because they like your channel.
So the risk if you try and focus on Patrons exclusively, you might lose the potential 90% or whatever that are just ordinary Youtube subscribers.
For me, Patreon is a way of supporting someone whose work I like. The perks range from nice to have to don't care. For example, I support you, Mike and Shahriar on Patreon because I think you all provide good, technical content. But I don't care about being the first on the block to see a video, so I'll only watch a pre-released video if I find it really interesting, and others I might watch some day when I purposely visit your YouTube channel or when YouTube recommends a video. The battery is one example that I will watch eventually, but did not enough to watch the pre-release on Patreon, which I find more cumbersome. I might only enjoy a fraction of your videos, for example I'm not hugely interested in solar power or RF, but there's still enough to be worth the $1/month.
So in my case it's the YouTube videos that make me pay on Patreon.
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Don't know how many of you might of saw a video from Joe Scott's other channel from a week ago. 30 days of posting shorts. Also went into why the subscription and the home listings suck.
I wish I could display the subs in such a way that occasional youtubers who only put out a video occasionality are not lost in the wake of the 5-videos-a-day-ers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roVEjnPre8c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roVEjnPre8c)
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I can read a lot of "free" advice in this thread, and a fair amount of judgment.
Heck, I also gave some I guess, but that was restricted to maybe shrinking the "factory" (knowing that if she doesn't make pedals anymore, she may not need all the equipment and - well ventilated - space for painting, which is expensive), and possibly otherwise start outsourcing the production of her pedals (which I know may not look enticing, but is the only way of selling any these days IMO, unless maybe you make handmade, 100% custom ones with gold and diamond casing maybe, and you'll seel one a year).
Now those would be things to try, but I don't mean to neither know exactly what Fran's constraints are, nor whether those things would actually turn out any better than what she currently does. As I said, life is constantly changing and nothing is definitive anyway. You may come up with the best of intentions and end up worse than you ever were. So I don't blame her for sticking to what has actually *worked* for her, even if that's not very stable. It *has* objectively worked. And it's quite possible that any of the stuff we suggested in this thread would work out less well and could even get her bankrupt.
As the saying goes, advisors are not the payers.
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I think she deserves a new thread. She's not getting evicted, that's way out of date.
Well we can let this one trail off and go dormant until the next time she's getting evicted, and you can rely on there being a next time, I'd bet money on it. Nothing has changed, she's merely managed to kick the can down the road a few yards/meters.
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she's merely managed to kick the can down the road a few yards/meters.
Isn't that what life is all about though? ::)
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It'd be cool to see Fran or Dave or any of the other tech educators create a makerspace / incubator / school.
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By weird I mean that you'd think that your paying Patrons are the most loyal audience who will watch every video you release and vote in every poll etc, but that's not actually the case.
This is very similar to what Eric Flint and Baen Publishing found out about free ebook downloads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baen_Free_Library) two decades ago.
You'd think they decrease sales, but the opposite happened. It just caused the people who read the genre to buy even more by the same authors.
Before widespread streaming services like Netflix, those who pirated most movies or games, were also the ones who bought most.
What does this mean for content creators, then? In my opinion, that the traditional model of "they who pay, decide" is not going to work too well. Even discussing choosing the next video based on what might get a lot of views can alienate viewers, because that's not interesting content. I would guess that the model AvE and Dave are doing –– do videos on what you find interesting –– works best; but there is always a clear arc in interest, as nothing lasts forever. (But obviously, I'm not a creator, just an interested passer-by.)
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Even discussing choosing the next video based on what might get a lot of views can alienate viewers
That might be because, as the followers grow, the content changes from "this is cool, I'll make a video of it" to "got to make a video of something." Viewers that are there for the former will shy away from the latter.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhCNstgBmlI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhCNstgBmlI)
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.... but suffice it to say that I don't agree with her reasoning. Indeed I think that some of those reasons are glaring red lights that she should makes changes.
I suspected something along these lines, but any action is up to Fran.
As such, I'm only going to wish her all the best for the future.
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The very first video that started this thread is worth watching again. I forgot how times she has moved, it's crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLBhwR_WWB4)
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Frankly it's just depressing. What an incredible waste of time and resources to be constantly moving. I'm afraid I may just not be capable of understanding the mindset of people who choose to rent indefinitely rather than using renting as a stepping stone early in life. Unless you are content to be nomadic and own few possessions it makes no sense at all.
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This is commercial space, not living space. We don't know what her living arrangements are, but presumably it isn't somewhere she finds convenient to use as a lab and studio.
Although I agree with you that renting is a bad place to be for living space, I think a much higher proportion of commercial property is rented.
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I thought it was mixed use living/workshop/studio space?
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This is commercial space, not living space. We don't know what her living arrangements are, but presumably it isn't somewhere she finds convenient to use as a lab and studio.
She has always lived in the lab, and has always tried to find a combined industrial/live style space. But due to gentrification and the demolition of such places in Philly I believe her current lab is a regular old style apartment building that she has turned the downstairs living space into the lab you see in the videos.
You can see the current FranLab 3 here when she moved in. The apartment contains the lab, office, music recording studio, and a storage room. So seems to be at least a 3 bedroom apartment, probably 4 bedrooms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9CEVyYqNL8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9CEVyYqNL8)
The "factory" in her latest video is indeed another (shared) space that she rents, but she rarely shoots videos there. She said in one of the videos that during the covid shutdown she was still payign rent for the factory even though she wasn't able to use it for 18 months.
In total she is renting 4 spaces (apartment/FranLab, factory, two storage units)
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FranLab 2.0 opening tour April 2019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75m4Q3jInis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75m4Q3jInis)
When she left FranLab 2.0 Jan 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzlvQM-z2c4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzlvQM-z2c4)
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More talk about views and Patreon income. Said she expects the views to vanish by the end of the year :o
Starts around 55:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EyIbONQm3Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EyIbONQm3Y)
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No content, there is nothing to watch. And one technical video in a month is not enough to get me personally interested. And I'm not watching a live talk show for an hour. And views are low on technical videos because they are uncharacteristic for the channel. All the people that watches the channel for those videos left and it would take a while to build that back up.
And recently I personally watch more channels working on longer projects spanning multiple videos, some go for years. There is continuity and something to look forward to every week.
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Yep lost me last time around let alone this time. Even before that as a subscriber under half of the content got a watch as some was of limited interest to me.
Go off Topic and non regularly and the algorithm punishes you. Time to get back on track PDQ if she wants to reverse the view thing, bitching into the ether to those still watching is of less than zero use to the problem and again will just get more YouTube relegation to the bottom of the recommend list.
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More talk about views and Patreon income. Said she expects the views to vanish by the end of the year :o
It is quite unfortunate the slow moving train wreck. When I was a kid there was a saying: "if one person calls you a <hard headed, dumb, etc.> don't pay attention. If everyone starts calling you that, then the problem is you."
The issue is that, with the internet, you can find several pockets of opinions and filter out the most unfavourable. Once you realize that the vast majority of people don't like to be antagonistic and will keep the truth to themselves, it might be too late.
And recently I personally watch more channels working on longer projects spanning multiple videos, some go for years. There is continuity and something to look forward to every week.
That is something I found on my channel as well: even with the division in chapters, the ultra-long repair videos tend to fare worse than if I break them up in shorter segments. It gives time for the audience to breathe.
Go off Topic and non regularly and the algorithm punishes you.
I also find this absolutely true. At times I have been unable to keep consistency and the audience/subscription rates drop significantly.
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And recently I personally watch more channels working on longer projects spanning multiple videos, some go for years. There is continuity and something to look forward to every week.
I've noticed that about myself too. I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer. Why I am watching a channel about dragging a rusty worn out dozer from the weeds, is hard to explain based on my past, and my experience. But it has all the key elements of great drama as the trials and tribulations are faced and overcome. 16months and I still look forward to the next installment. I actually rejoiced when he started it last week.
I think I respond to the personality of the presenters as much as like the content.
Fran changed her content and I don't really like livestreams regardless of who is presenting it. I wish her all the best.
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As has been said, this has been like watching a slow motion train wreck and it isn’t pretty :(
I just watched the video posted above and found nothing to make me want to watch another from this content provider. This is the challenge that content providers face, just like major broadcasting companies and contract program producers….. you have to stay relevant and be popular with the audiences. Being a serious content producer for internet channels, like Dave or Fran, cannot be an easy life as it can all come down like a house of cards if your audience abandon you for some reason.
I am not ‘invested’ in the whole Fran Lab or her transgender life in Philadelphia. As an outsider looking in, I see an intelligent person who is very set in their views who has reached my age (55) and realised that life is anything but fair, internet audiences are fickle and life can really suck when you effectively lose your main income stream. I went through some of this when I got ill in 2015 and did not return to the work place until 2021 ! It was a horrible experience and I feel sorry for Fran BUT she needs to look at the bigger picture… she is alive, hopefully in good health and can use her clearly capable brain for good in our society. It may be time to walk away from relying on past income processes and the fickle world of internet broadcasting and focus on an activity that remains rewarding to her and earns a decent income.
Being very controversial here, but I think it needs to be said…… producing internet video content can realise a very high income for the amount of work involved, compared to an hourly paid average job that is. This is why it appeals to those who are good at it ! A friends son earned £100K in a year producing videos about the game fortnight ! I am told that is not a lot these days for such video channels. That is more than I ever earned in a year working hard in a demanding job, including overtime. Times have changed and big money can be earned from a YouTube channel…. But is it ‘too easy’ to earn those large sums so when your audience gets bored with you, you go from Hero to Zero, almost overnight ! I do not envy anyone suffering such a loss of income. Some lasses on “Only Fans” earned crazy amounts of money for videoing themselves naked….they considered it a ‘job’ and were distraught when the platform said it was going to ban salacious content. This is an income source that is sooo foreign to me that I am horrified when I hear that You tube content producers are deliberately wrecking cars, equipment,…. Themselves ! Just to gain views and some seriously high income from their ‘audience’. The world has gone kinda mad. In that maelstrom of video content, poor Fran looks pretty tame these days and sadly she may no longer be as ‘relevant’ as in the past. Hence the older age demographic that she stated.
Time to stop crying over spilt milk and start planning for the future..the YouTube dream may be over for Fran but an intelligent person can come up with an alternative plan for income rather than just chasing the ‘easy money’ being offered to some on YouTube.
Hang on a minute…. Oh dear… I am a male of the species so probably “mansplaining” in Frans eyes :palm:
The recent accommodation issue was another drama that reinforced my view that Fran is very set in her ways and intolerant of alternative views or solutions. I am aware that she fears her sexuality may expose her to abuse outside Phili, but sometimes you have to spread your wings and see what lives outside the “bubble”. I fear Fran could become a very sad and bitter person if the current level of decline in her life continues :(
I wish her all the best as a fellow 55 year old who had to pick them-self up, dust them-self down, and get back on the “horse of life” in order to move forwards. You cannot live in the past or rely on past glories, no matter how great they were. Fact: life is not easy or fair and you often have to work very hard to earn a living.
Fraser
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Watched 10 minutes starting at 55. Early on I watched some of their content on vintage electronics. Once they started to complain about politics, I lost interest. Running a very tiny non-monetized channel without patreon, I don't relate to it. Their comment about subscribers to views ratio is similar. As a viewer myself, I don't watch every video for the channels I subscribe to and it has to really be interesting for me not to skim them. I suspect people watching my content do the same. Who want's to sit through 20 minutes of meter zapping... :-DD I can't imagine making a video a day. When they showed the viewer metrics and talked about trending towards 2k, my channel stays flat but its so far down it's basically zero as they put it (1:01). While they may not see such a small channel as having any value, it seems to have had some impact on the viewers and that I am very pleased with.
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I echo most of what has been said here recently.
All Fran seems to do now is moan about everything!! The only content that appears are either old films or protracted rants about the latest injustices, neither of which take any particular effort to present. The ongoing and long standing issue with accommodation is highly frustrating to constantly hear about, especially when Fran seems to think it's wrong that property owners seek to capitilise on their investment!! Living in the USA, the inventor of the capitalist system, what does she expect?!
Obviously it is eventually going to become financially impossible to stay in Phily, and yet she refuses to accept this despite many advising her to move to a cheaper area or state. This has happened in every developed country, here in the UK for example, in London it has become impossible for low income earners to buy ANY property, so living outside the city and commuting in is the only option for those that want to live there, unless they rent at absurd cost and live with insecurity! So, the USA isn't going to be any different and it will become worse.
I'm sorry to be blunt but it seems that Fran seems to think she is right and everyone else is wrong, and there are no other options, with that outlook she is going to hemorrhage viewers, subscribers and patreon supporters.
Moving area or state could mean that she could buy a place at a much lower cost, have more space, be secure, keep all her stuff and do what she wants. I can't comment on the transgender issue, I know nothing about that as a lifestyle and it's issues, but I would think there must be somewhere in a country the size of the USA that is tolerant of that and is affordable to live in, if not, don't tell anyone!!
Hopefully she will see the light and sort something out, because at one time I really enjoyed the content she presented, now there is virtually nothing I watch more than the few moments it takes to establish what the content subject is.
Another issue which quite frankly I find irritating, is her claim that she is an engineer, despite having no formal qualifications, and criticising those that won't accept her into engineering societies!! Please, what does she expect?! There is no way she could work as an engineer without the training and qualifications, to claim otherwise is naive! It also insults those that have studied long and hard to become qualified in their chosen discipline. She is skilled no doubt, but that is not the same as being trained and formally qualified.
If we compare what say Dave has done and where he is now, with his DMM products and content variety, it's a different world, and of course he is an engineering professional.
Good luck to Fran, she is going to need it unless she changes her approach.
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And recently I personally watch more channels working on longer projects spanning multiple videos, some go for years. There is continuity and something to look forward to every week.
I've noticed that about myself too. I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer. Why I am watching a channel about dragging a rusty worn out dozer from the weeds, is hard to explain based on my past, and my experience. But it has all the key elements of great drama as the trials and tribulations are faced and overcome. 16months and I still look forward to the next installment. I actually rejoiced when he started it last week.
I think I respond to the personality of the presenters as much as like the content.
Fran changed her content and I don't really like livestreams regardless of who is presenting it. I wish her all the best.
I've recently been watching a bunch of videos by a guy who repairs old wristwatches. I've never worn a watch in my life and have no desire to have one but the videos are fascinating, so many ridiculously tiny parts, there is something really appealing about the precision and it's fun to see one take off and start running after sitting neglected for so long.
I've never had any interest at all in lifestreams, I like the polished videos that have had the fluff edited out. Even then I often find myself skipping parts.
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I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer.
If you really like that stuff I fully recommend you hunt out Squatch253.
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I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer.
If you really like that stuff I fully recommend you hunt out Squatch253.
Or Big Timber.
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I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer.
If you really like that stuff I fully recommend you hunt out Squatch253.
Or Big Timber.
Thanks, was involved in forestry for a bit. Sad thing depending on your POV is few guys are on the ground swinging saws these days as it's all gone mechanised. :(
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I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer.
If you really like that stuff I fully recommend you hunt out Squatch253.
Or Big Timber.
Thanks, was involved in forestry for a bit. Sad thing depending on your POV is few guys are on the ground swinging saws these days as it's all gone mechanised. :(
Big Timber is about a small hands-on business with a boss that likes buying old equipment.
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Fran changed her content and I don't really like livestreams regardless of who is presenting it. I wish her all the best.
Quite a few Youtubers like the law channels Via Frei and Rekieta Law for example are making a killing on live stream, and have switched over to that as their main focus instead of the usual edited Youtube content. If it works financially then great, go for it.
But I don't think the same can be said for Fran, me, or anyone else in our space. I know Big Clive's live show is quite popular, but I don't think it brings in much extra income?
I've been able to turn down every single sponsorship offer for the last 13 years because I don't financially need to do it because I have other streams of income. But if I was in Fran's financial position then I'd be totally answering every one of those sponsorship email requests. She obsolutely must be getting them the same way every other Youtuber gets them.
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Obviously it is eventually going to become financially impossible to stay in Phily, and yet she refuses to accept this despite many advising her to move to a cheaper area or state. This has happened in every developed country, here in the UK for example, in London it has become impossible for low income earners to buy ANY property, so living outside the city and commuting in is the only option for those that want to live there, unless they rent at absurd cost and live with insecurity! So, the USA isn't going to be any different and it will become worse.
I'm sorry to be blunt but it seems that Fran seems to think she is right and everyone else is wrong, and there are no other options, with that outlook she is going to hemorrhage viewers, subscribers and patreon supporters.
Moving area or state could mean that she could buy a place at a much lower cost, have more space, be secure, keep all her stuff and do what she wants. I can't comment on the transgender issue, I know nothing about that as a lifestyle and it's issues, but I would think there must be somewhere in a country the size of the USA that is tolerant of that and is affordable to live in, if not, don't tell anyone!!
She has lived in many other places in the US, including small towns, and she said she never wants to go back. Well, I grew up and lived in the suburb with the worst reputation in Sydney, if not Australia, so bad they even made reality TV show about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_Street
Whilst I wouldn't want to go back there, it's actually not THAT bad, and I would if I had to financially.
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Whilst I wouldn't want to go back there, it's actually not THAT bad, and I would if I had to financially.
I'd live anywhere if I had to financially, it's called survival, and it beats the alternative. It doesn't have to be permanent. In my opinion though, owning property just about anywhere beats renting property just about anywhere else.
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Whilst I wouldn't want to go back there, it's actually not THAT bad, and I would if I had to financially.
I'd live anywhere if I had to financially, it's called survival, and it beats the alternative. It doesn't have to be permanent. In my opinion though, owning property just about anywhere beats renting property just about anywhere else.
Also, owning a house in a small(er) town or suburb MUST be way safer than a city like Philly. But sadly Fran doesn't agree.
Heck, you could even live like a hermit and order everything to be delivered.
Pick a concealed carry state to pack heat when you go shopping if you are really that worried.
Although she seems to have burned some good will with all the continued fund raising and refusing to leave Philly, I think if she actually did a GoFundMe to specifically buy a cheap house in a small town, I reckon she'd probably get it, or a good chunk of it. But if it's not 100% cash, then there is still the problem of getting the loan.
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And recently I personally watch more channels working on longer projects spanning multiple videos, some go for years. There is continuity and something to look forward to every week.
Same here! My favourite Youtuber posts a vlog every day about what he is working on (which can vary from hour to hour but there is a long term plan restoring all kinds of vehicles including tanks). But he has someone doing filming and editing almost full-time.
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I've even been glued to Pacific Northwest Hillbilly and his efforts to restore (too do work) his Cat D4 dozer.
If you really like that stuff I fully recommend you hunt out Squatch253.
Or Big Timber.
Thanks, was involved in forestry for a bit. Sad thing depending on your POV is few guys are on the ground swinging saws these days as it's all gone mechanised. :(
Big Timber is about a small hands-on business with a boss that likes buying old equipment.
I've heard of Squatch253, but I just have to wind back on YT viewing. During pandemic lockdowns I really went over-the-top.
Still watching Puddin's Fab Shop, Marty T, Diesel Creek, Letsdig18, Watch Wes Work and Mortske Repair but the others like
Junkyard Digs
Dylan McCool
Vice Grip Garage
Salvage Workshop
Captain Kleeman
CC Equipment
Dirt Perfect
Buckin Billy Ray (timber felling)
Wrench Everyday
and many others...
Have had to go or become subject to extreme selectivity.
One channel I do like and is electronics content is Jerry Walker, he does slow considered repair videos and is presenting a series on designing a Z80 computer. The differentiator is he is doing it old school like in the days when the Z80 was introduced. No SRAM he is using DRAM and TTL video display as opposed to relying on a serial terminal. He is discussing the timing diagrams in a fair amount of detail.
But it is getting off topic. But that might not be a bad thing in this thread. Fran has made it abundantly clear why she doesn't want to leave her community and support network. My sisters kid similarly wishes to remain ensconced in their comfort zone. That's just human nature especially as you get older.
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Whilst I agree that Fran has an absolute right to live wherever she likes….. sometimes people need a reality check ;) Renting four properties in an expensive location and then complaining that finances are stretched ….Hmm what a surprise. Then asking others to help pay for said lifestyle and location choice …. Time for a reality check maybe ?
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And recently I personally watch more channels working on longer projects spanning multiple videos, some go for years. There is continuity and something to look forward to every week.
Same here! My favourite Youtuber posts a vlog every day about what he is working on (which can vary from hour to hour but there is a long term plan restoring all kinds of vehicles including tanks). But he has someone doing filming and editing almost full-time.
If tank restoration is your thing here is something that might be of interest. A small channel here in Australia has a guy who normally does rust repairs on old cars is XACOUPEGUY. He has a personal interest in tanks and has started his own occasional discussion on his tank repair. His most recent video "A trip to the Tank farm" was a visit to a fellow tank enthusiast where he does show some tanks driving around. The music is an acquired taste though.
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Whilst I wouldn't want to go back there, it's actually not THAT bad, and I would if I had to financially.
I'd live anywhere if I had to financially, it's called survival, and it beats the alternative. It doesn't have to be permanent. In my opinion though, owning property just about anywhere beats renting property just about anywhere else.
Couldn't agree more. You do what you have to do. From what I see and know of Fran's situation, she basically has 2 options. 1/ move to another area to reduce overhead, or 2/ substantially increase income. And with option 2, if she stays put, she will need to keep increasing income to stay pace with rapidly increasing costs, because the US economy is going into recession, things are going to be bad for a long time. The stress of that must be dreadful. I suffer with stress and anxiety and can't imagine being where she is without imploding. It's obviously affecting her ability to produce appealing content, she has made that comment herself, so that will be an ever increasing downward spiral.
We all wish we had a 10,000 sq ft private, personal workshop for as cheap as chips with no external pressure to worry about, but that is a
rare thing indeed and not something to hope happens with no strategy for that!
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The more this saga drags on: stop whining, adapt or perish.
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Whilst I agree that Fran has an absolute right to live wherever she likes…..
Does she? She has an absolute right to preferences in housing. But if she can't afford that lifestyle, none of her rights are being violated.
(I think we agree entirely on your broader point, but this intro sentence is significantly overly prescriptive in terms of what her actual rights are, IMO.)
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The more this saga drags on: stop whining, adapt or perish.
That about sums it up :-\ The harsh reality of 1st world life in the 21st century.
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As I already mentioned, I see a lot of judgment here. While I have my opinion on what she does too, that's just an opinion. It's her life. She can handle it the way she wants. While her life may look "hectic" to many of us, she has always managed to make it one way or another, so I see no reason why she would suddenly hit a brick wall.
Well, she will eventually. But guess what? We all will. ::)
Also, IMHO, living a pretty unstable life with the full consciousness of your situation being unstable puts you eons ahead of someone living in the illusion of a stable situation. Just my 2 cents (which will soon be 20 cents with the inflation and all.)
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SiliconWizard,
Good points but with Fran ‘airing her dirty laundry’ in public she is exposing herself to scrutiny and, to some extent judgement of her decisions and plans. As with true celebrities, when you seek the publics eye and notice, you can expect a fair amount of criticism and comment. It goes with the territory. If Fran was quietly getting on with her production of video content etc and all the financial strife was going on out of public sight, she would not expect judgement or criticism. She has, however chosen to make the financial and accommodation challenges very public and even requested financial support from her ‘fan base’. That is a path that leaves her exposed to comment, both positive and negative.
Fraser
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I'm guessing this is the case in USA also but certainly in Canada, many people demand to live in the most crowded and expensive areas in the country. That demand for homes drives up prices so they demand their neighbors and the tax-payers subsidize their choice. I'm not sure how far into that Fran gets but I think in general cases, it is good for people to encourage others to be part of the solution, to move away and reduce the demand instead of complaining about the supply/demand ratio and expecting others to fix it.
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SiliconWizard,
Good points but with Fran ‘airing her dirty laundry’ in public she is exposing herself to scrutiny and, to some extent judgement of her decisions and plans.
Oh, I agree with this point. And while we could find doing that questionable, it's probably part of her "strategy" though.
To be fair, people relying on those "personal sponsoring" sites such as Patreon to make a significant part of their income are, one way or another, leveraging a bit of the same strategy: pressuring others for giving some cash for their appreciation and in exchange for the possibility of getting new content. In those harsh moments, Fran is just making it a bit more obvious, but what she does is not fundamentally different. And whatever we think of that *is* a moral judgment.
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I have a feeling that Fran has realized "There's a sucker born every minute" saying has a merit.
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Although she seems to have burned some good will with all the continued fund raising and refusing to leave Philly, I think if she actually did a GoFundMe to specifically buy a cheap house in a small town, I reckon she'd probably get it, or a good chunk of it. But if it's not 100% cash, then there is still the problem of getting the loan.
Actually, in the case of US mortgages, if one can manage about 50% of appraised value, the loan is relatively easy to get. If the bank ends up having to foreclose, they're pretty much guaranteed to get enough in the lien sale to to recover their principal, unpaid interest and expenses. Of course, that's still quite a chunk of cash.
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Well given the current financial situation, I'm afraid loans are going to be much harder to get. And/or with unbearable rates. So, better hurry.
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Well given the current financial situation, I'm afraid loans are going to be much harder to get. And/or with unbearable rates. So, better hurry.
That is true. Until the end of 2021, the last 6 to 8 years have been the most ideal time to get a mortgage ever.
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But it is getting off topic. But that might not be a bad thing in this thread. Fran has made it abundantly clear why she doesn't want to leave her community and support network. My sisters kid similarly wishes to remain ensconced in their comfort zone. That's just human nature especially as you get older.
The thing is though is that Fran seems to be willing to literally go down the with the ship and end her dream job (Youtube content creation) over this.
No way I'd ever give up my dream gig of just dicking around my lab and making occasional videos.
If all my income vanished then you can bet that I'd be spending all my time trying to get paid sponsors for every video to keep the ship afloat. And/or I'd get off my arse and make paid content courses, write a book. I'd even sell a storage unit and downsize. Another crowd funding project etc. I'd be trying everything possible to keep the ship afloat.
With Fran it seems to be either the status quo or bust.
I honestly think the "I work for the Patrons" approach will ultimately fail. I can tell you about 10% or less of Patrons actually care enough to watch pre-release videos or contribute to discussions and polls etc. So in effect she is bettering her future trying to please about 180 people.
It works great for channels like AvE, but he's pulling in huge amounts via Patreon. He was at one point (before he hid all the data and metrics) pulling in something like over $500k a year as at one point one of the Top 5 subscribed channels on Patreon. Now he doesn't advertise Patreon at all in his videos, description or About page. I guess he's happy with his existing Patreon base. And it's awesme that he's making so much with a dedicated fan base.
Fran only has 1800 vs 12,000+ so it's precarious.
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Perhaps the difference is that Fran doesn't have a family to support so there is less pressure to make sure money is coming in.
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Well given the current financial situation, I'm afraid loans are going to be much harder to get. And/or with unbearable rates. So, better hurry.
That is true. Until the end of 2021, the last 6 to 8 years have been the most ideal time to get a mortgage ever.
Yep, she would probably need a fan that works in morgages at a bank that could help her out. She's asked for that before without luck presumably.
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Perhaps the difference is that Fran doesn't have a family to support so there is less pressure to make sure money is coming in.
That actually gives you a lot more options.
People always ask me why I don't move to a much bigger property and build a huge 100sqm lab building. I'm married with kids in school, so I can't, it's simply not an option to uproot the family and move.
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Please we don't need another Aussie50!
Quote from: RAPo on Today at 10:49:16 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=143144.msg4521422#msg4521422)The more this saga drags on: stop whining, adapt or perish.
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Yep, she would probably need a fan that works in morgages at a bank that could help her out. She's asked for that before without luck presumably.
That would represent a conflict of interests for the bank specialist. I do not see that hapenning, most FIs do compliance training annually and things like conflict of interest are a big no-no.
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Supposedly a little 'salt n pepper' can help you get a mortgage in Canada.
Fake employment records, bank statements and T4s offered to would-be homebuyers
An undercover investigation by CBC Marketplace has exposed some networks of real estate agents, mortgage brokers and bank employees facilitating mortgage fraud for a fee.
Disclaimer: I do not condone this.
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Perhaps the difference is that Fran doesn't have a family to support so there is less pressure to make sure money is coming in.
That actually gives you a lot more options.
People always ask me why I don't move to a much bigger property and build a huge 100sqm lab building. I'm married with kids in school, so I can't, it's simply not an option to uproot the family and move.
In the end that is just a choice. I have moved 2 times together with my parents simply because it was necessary. And I doubt your kids would mind getting bigger bedrooms and a larger garden to play in.
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People always ask me why I don't move to a much bigger property and build a huge 100sqm lab building. I'm married with kids in school, so I can't, it's simply not an option to uproot the family and move.
In the end that is just a choice. I have moved 2 times together with my parents simply because it was necessary. And I doubt your kids would mind getting bigger bedrooms and a larger garden to play in.
Nope, the kids love their school and their neighours and their house, as does Mrs EEVblog.
We are currently planing an extension upwards and a pool, at great expense to managment.
Of course we'd move if we were absolutely forced to, but they would never willingly choose that.
We have actually discussed buying a house nearby in the suburb as an investment, which could also be used as lab, and then in the future as a place for the kids to live once they have a family. I made the hypothetical argument that if that house was way bigger and better than our current house, they voted that they still wouldn't move.
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Take them over to the new home and then decide whether to move or not. 8)
More serious: I'm not sure whether it is wise to go around and buy homes for your kids. Setup a fund if you can: definitely yes. But you can't know what their circumstances will be as where they end up living won't be their choice entirely. For example: my wife insisted we move to a different city which is closer to her family. I didn't like that at all at first but in the end it turned out to be a good move.
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More serious: I'm not sure whether it is wise to go around and buy homes for your kids. Setup a fund if you can: definitely yes. But you can't know what their circumstances will be as where they end up living won't be their choice entirely.
Yes, but a house can be just another investment vehicle. They could always sell it, or use it as collateral to get a loan for another place they want.
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More serious: I'm not sure whether it is wise to go around and buy homes for your kids. Setup a fund if you can: definitely yes. But you can't know what their circumstances will be as where they end up living won't be their choice entirely.
Yes, but a house can be just another investment vehicle. They could always sell it, or use it as collateral to get a loan for another place they want.
True but personally I would use an investment fund (which I actually did) in order to spread the risks better and make sure to get some interest.
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I may be substantially going against the flow of opinions, in this thread.
But as I see it, I somewhat understand, Frans thinking, ways and reasoning.
The thing is, Fran has managed to create a finely tuned/balanced, business (or well paid fun hobby), with their YouTube channel setup. It allows them to spend the huge number of dedicated hours, producing the stuff (hardware, Videos and things).
In relative peace and quiet, with few or no, distractions. Where they can actually live in their workspace (which many people, would probably HATE to do, in practice).
Because these are properly rented, real purpose built or modified, factory/warehouse/industrial areas. It means they can setup fairly large equipment/machines (as necessary/required), with proper access, ventilation, safety, floor types, powerful electrical connections, etc.
If the situation changes (for business reasons from time to time). E.g. A (hypothetical) Guitar accessory, sales dramatically petering out. They can close down that particular (1 of 4), rented out buildings/areas. Then (when the contract runs out), just move out of that area, and close down that particular functionality/aspect (of their business or very serious money making hobby).
Similarly, if one of their areas of interest, significantly increases in size. Such as a very large load of old/vintage film stock, so the processing/storage area, of that part of their enterprise, needs to double or even triple the space required, compared to the original plans. They can upgrade their rented space, to somewhere bigger.
The problem with actually owning the building is that you then have to (there are alternatives, such as renting it out, but lets forget that for now), sell it. Which is easier said than done.
If the building they purchase, is really a home which includes extensive workshop areas. Then owning and running that home, comes with a lot of additional responsibilities and distractions. Such as gardens/yards, repairs, neighbors, neighborhood, local district requirements, zoning issues, etc.
I suspect that many peoples, perceptions, of various neighborhoods/areas, in the country they live. Is going to have all sorts of biases, prejudices, past experiences (both good and/or bad ones), etc.
So it is all too easy for use to look at their opinions on where they want to live, and say "you should move to a much cheaper area". But life is NOT as simple as that.
Individuals are individuals, NOT robotic computers, which only do 100%, the right/logical/sensible thing all the time. Otherwise, many of use, would be driving round in very small engined tiny cars, for driving from A to B. Rather than the (potentially) much bigger, sportier/luxury/SUV or what ever, that (I presume), many of use, really drive.
It is a bit like, if a fellow EEVblog member, photographed all their equipment. If they had 10 or 20 Oscilloscopes, 10 multimeters, and 9 power supplies. We could all chime out, that common sense says that 1 or 2 oscilloscopes, 1 or 2 power supplies, and perhaps 2 or 3 multimeters. Would be enough, for nearly everything.
Also take into account. We probably only know some of the details. If we really were in Frans shoes, with all the facts, past experiences and other information (full facts). We may easily see, the quite possibly (at least partly sensible), reasoning, behind these actions.
In other words. Common sense, sensible and 100% logical planning, are NOT the way, many real life humans, behave in life. If it was, the TEA thread here, would probably be empty.
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The thing is, Fran has managed to create a finely tuned/balanced, business (or well paid fun hobby), with their YouTube channel setup.
The finely tuned part is the problem here. It's so finely tuned financially that any small drop in Patreon income leads to panic and the videos we have seen recently. This is in addition to the usual renters problem of getting booted out. That's all fine of course if it's hidden from the audience, but it's not, the audience funds the entire operation practically 100% and she shares all the details of the problem publicly.
I think she has said the small extra boost recently will last until the end of the year, maybe early next year when she expects a natural dropoff to bring it under the red line again.
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Couldn't agree more. You do what you have to do. From what I see and know of Fran's situation, she basically has 2 options. 1/ move to another area to reduce overhead, or 2/ substantially increase income. And with option 2, if she stays put, she will need to keep increasing income to stay pace with rapidly increasing costs, because the US economy is going into recession, things are going to be bad for a long time. The stress of that must be dreadful. I suffer with stress and anxiety and can't imagine being where she is without imploding. It's obviously affecting her ability to produce appealing content, she has made that comment herself, so that will be an ever increasing downward spiral.
We all wish we had a 10,000 sq ft private, personal workshop for as cheap as chips with no external pressure to worry about, but that is a
rare thing indeed and not something to hope happens with no strategy for that!
I think her income is going to drop substantially too, not increase. The economy is entering into a recession, the severity of which is not yet known but signs point to it being a nasty one. I don't know what has happened to viewers so far but I haven't watched one of her videos in quite some time, there got to be too many of these videos complaining about the situation she has created and the results of doing the same thing over and over again instead of interesting technical content. I'm not going to chip in to enable someone to keep making the same mistakes.
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Also, owning a house in a small(er) town or suburb MUST be way safer than a city like Philly. But sadly Fran doesn't agree.
It is, it's an objectively true fact. She lives in Philly which is notorious as one of the most dangerous cities in all of North America, sure there are some parts that are not so bad but the idea of choosing to live there because it's safe is just absolutely laughable and indicates a lack of rational thought.
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The finely tuned part is the problem here. It's so finely tuned financially that any small drop in Patreon income leads to panic and the videos we have seen recently. This is in addition to the usual renters problem of getting booted out. That's all fine of course if it's hidden from the audience, but it's not, the audience funds the entire operation practically 100% and she shares all the details of the problem publicly.
I think she has said the small extra boost recently will last until the end of the year, maybe early next year when she expects a natural dropoff to bring it under the red line again.
You're NOT wrong, it does seem to be exactly like that. But even, relatively massive companies, have made similar mistakes, in the past, eventually leading to that company (however big), disappearing.
For example DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation ) computers, of PDP11 fame (actually I think that was a computer you used, a very long time ago, to start up a business, using it to produce dating matches or something, maybe?) and other computer systems. But, in the 1970s, 80s and 90s, the computer market was rapidly dramatically changing. Computers, no longer needed to be massive cabinets, in specialized air-conditioned rooms (sometimes). Because the CPU could be in a single chip Microprocessor.
But DEC couldn't (or rather the people/person at the top of the company), see or properly understand, these upcoming changes (although they did make the DEC Alpha Microprocessors).
So, the market place was rapidly shifting over to microprocessors, and relatively small, low cost (relatively speaking), computers, such as the upcoming (IBM) PCs and their clones.
But DEC, insisted, on trying to sell these considerably more expensive computers (maybe ten or twenty times the price of a PC), and would send at least two sales people, to try and sell each of these 'small' computer systems.
They just didn't get it, or adapt in time.
So nowadays, they don't exist anymore.
(Fran, if you ever read this, PLEASE don't take it personally. I'm just describing things. People are different, otherwise things could get very boring, if we were all the same).
Some people, don't seem so good, at sorting things out for the longer term. They only/mainly see things, on a day by day basis. Sometimes continually fighting fires, each day.
So, yes, if they had consolidated things, ages ago, and kept better (much more efficient), means of achieving their goals. Such as using premises (rented or bought), in much more affordable locations. They would be in a much stronger position, financially. To either ride out the current financial situation, or cope with less income.
But I can still perceive, some of the reasons, as to why they are in the current situation. Originally, well before the gentrification of where they were renting/living/working, the rentals and costs, were quite possibly perfectly reasonable/efficient and sensible.
I wouldn't blame Fran, for the changes (gentrification), of where they were/are located, or the current financial climate.
I suspect some of the personality traits, that make people enjoy and really, like Electronics and its stuff. E.g. Vintage electronic displays/lamps and gadgets. Are perhaps, more likely, to want things to be a certain way, even if the real life practicalities and business situation, don't really allow it.
I feel relatively sorry for them. Because they seem to really, really enjoy what they do, they appear to be having a great deal of fun. But the financial realities of the situation, are beginning (or already have), to catch up with them.
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Nope, the kids love their school and their neighours and their house, as does Mrs EEVblog.
We are currently planing an extension upwards and a pool, at great expense to managment.
Of course we'd move if we were absolutely forced to, but they would never willingly choose that.
We have actually discussed buying a house nearby in the suburb as an investment, which could also be used as lab, and then in the future as a place for the kids to live once they have a family. I made the hypothetical argument that if that house was way bigger and better than our current house, they voted that they still wouldn't move.
He's right though that it's still a choice. Maybe not a very good choice given the current factors in your situation but if you were in Fran's position, relying on patrons and youtube income and trying to rent, hemorrhaging money to pay for your home and lab as the train is speeding toward the end of the track I suspect you might reconsider and uprooting everyone might not look so bad. People relocate their families all the time, often because they get another job somewhere else.
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Nope, the kids love their school and their neighours and their house, as does Mrs EEVblog.
We are currently planing an extension upwards and a pool, at great expense to managment.
Of course we'd move if we were absolutely forced to, but they would never willingly choose that.
We have actually discussed buying a house nearby in the suburb as an investment, which could also be used as lab, and then in the future as a place for the kids to live once they have a family. I made the hypothetical argument that if that house was way bigger and better than our current house, they voted that they still wouldn't move.
He's right though that it's still a choice. Maybe not a very good choice given the current factors in your situation
Of course, I did not mean to say I don't have a choice. It's just that in our sitation there is literally no reason to move and almost every reason to stay.
I keep having to explain this to people though who think I should move and build a large lab in the backyard to save cost. Like why am I paying $5k+ strata a year (plus strata on two storage units) to work in a windowless box in a corporate business tower.
but if you were in Fran's position, relying on patrons and youtube income and trying to rent, hemorrhaging money to pay for your home and lab as the train is speeding toward the end of the track I suspect you might reconsider and uprooting everyone might not look so bad. People relocate their families all the time, often because they get another job somewhere else.
Of course I would, and I said that I would. I just don't have to, not even remotely close to it being a consideration.
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I think her income is going to drop substantially too, not increase. The economy is entering into a recession, the severity of which is not yet known but signs point to it being a nasty one.
I can confirm as I see Patron dropping off and they leave a message explaining why, and there have been more and more "economic siutation" messages lately.
All other creators would be seeing the same.
I don't know what has happened to viewers so far but I haven't watched one of her videos in quite some time, there got to be too many of these videos complaining about the situation she has created and the results of doing the same thing over and over again instead of interesting technical content. I'm not going to chip in to enable someone to keep making the same mistakes.
I personally mostly like watching her rant and commentary videos (I can just put them on the background while doing other stuff) and just seeing the oddball vintage stuff like displays etc.
I suggested that she have a weekly segment tearing down and showing off someone oddball in her collection.
But everyone wants something different and that's one of the big problems.
Personally I think project videos are a big time sink for not a big up-side view potential. As a creator in the same space as Fran, if I was trying to save my channel I wouldn't be spending time on build projects. I'd focus on regular segments that can be produced relatively easily.
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So, yes, if they had consolidated things, ages ago, and kept better (much more efficient), means of achieving their goals. Such as using premises (rented or bought), in much more affordable locations. They would be in a much stronger position, financially. To either ride out the current financial situation, or cope with less income.
But I can still perceive, some of the reasons, as to why they are in the current situation. Originally, well before the gentrification of where they were renting/living/working, the rentals and costs, were quite possibly perfectly reasonable/efficient and sensible.
I wouldn't blame Fran, for the changes (gentrification), of where they were/are located, or the current financial climate.
Yes, I believe Fran when she says gentrification is ruining the spaces she needs in Philly. Soon there will be little option left. She's already been forced into renting 4 separate spaces at once as a result of gentrification in order to get the space she needs just to maintain what she is doing. Crazy.
I've got 4 spaces too - home, the lab, and two storage units. I already gave up renting a bigger space and moved back into my smaller lab to save cost. With hindsight I should have bought the biggest space possible a decade ago. I went through some ballpark calcs on this that it was a $400k mistake for not thinking long term:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Mh7LFpso (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Mh7LFpso)
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Yes, I believe Fran when she says gentrification is ruining the spaces she needs in Philly. Soon there will be little option left. She's already been forced into renting 4 separate spaces at once as a result of gentrification in order to get the space she needs just to maintain what she is doing. Crazy.
I've got 4 spaces too - home, the lab, and two storage units. I already gave up renting a bigger space and moved back into my smaller lab to save cost. With hindsight I should have bought the biggest space possible a decade ago. I went through some ballpark calcs on this that it was a $400k mistake for not thinking long term:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Mh7LFpso (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Mh7LFpso)
As you say, the key word is of course, HINDSIGHT. Thanks for the video link, I enjoyed watching it! :)
Although you are presenting it as $400,000 you could have saved. If you roll the clock, forwards or backwards, you can't really predict the outcomes, that accurately.
E.g. You find an apparent bargain commercial property, today. Priced at $500,000.
But, without the hindsight of what is going to happen in the next 5 years or so. You can't really know/decide, if the best option is to buy it or not. You can just make the best/educated guess, that you can.
As you say, in the video, but I'm also adding my own comments. In five years time, it could be worth $750,000, or its value might have dropped to $250,000, and you have great difficulty selling it.
I think you got extra added value, from the commercial places you rented. Because they helped give you extra experience, as to what you really needed, and how to better access, the viability/usefulness of a particular property.
E.g. You found out, how annoying, it being windowless was. Also how limiting, a space which didn't have enough room for your lab, and any worker(s), at the time.
I.e. If you had immediately bought a place at the very beginning and stuck with it. As money efficient as that would have been. You wouldn't have tried all the various different premises. Which allowed you to realize what you really wanted and needed.
In other words, you were climbing a learning curve, perhaps without fully realizing it.
I think with businesses, it is necessary to accept that someone has to make various decisions. Not all of those decisions, will be 100% right. Just hopefully, those decisions are right enough of the time, to make the business successful.
Also, by worrying about this theoretical $400,000 'loss'. It might help you to make much bigger profits, in the future. Because you have gained more experience (climbed the learning curve), on what decisions are especially critical (financially speaking), and will know when to pause, get professional advise, and research something carefully. Before committing to buying or renting it, and so on.
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Also, by worrying about this theoretical $400,000 'loss'. It might help you to make much bigger profits, in the future. Because you have gained more experience (climbed the learning curve), on what decisions are especially critical (financially speaking), and will know when to pause, get professional advise, and research something carefully. Before committing to buying or renting it, and so on.
11 years ago when I bought this place, all I knew was that:
a) I needed to move out of the garage
b) The interest on the place was about the same as rent on the place
I had no idea if the Youtube thing would go anywhere, hardly anyone in the country was a full time Youtuber back then, I was one of the first. But it seemed like a no-brainer to buy instead of rent. I figured I could also sell the office and go back to a real job with my tail between my legs.
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A few years ago I was seeing lots of videos on youtube comparing buying a home vs renting and investing in stocks. Most calculations were wild guesses and barely mentioned risk. Last year there were many similar videos but focussed on fixed vs variable interest rate for mortgages. Again they barely mentioned risk.
If you rent a home or you go with variable rate mortgage, you might have some extra money up front to diversify and invest in stocks, etc, but homes are essential and the risk of missing out on some potential extra money from stocks pales in comparison to what many renters and variable rate mortgage holders are going through now.
I hope after this, more people will discuss the worst case scenario, not because I enjoy the negativity but because it's often worth at least some consideration in big decisions.
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11 years ago when I bought this place, all I knew was that:
a) I needed to move out of the garage
b) The interest on the place was about the same as rent on the place
I had no idea if the Youtube thing would go anywhere, hardly anyone in the country was a full time Youtuber back then, I was one of the first. But it seemed like a no-brainer to buy instead of rent. I figured I could also sell the office and go back to a real job with my tail between my legs.
It's quite difficult, making a decision, to go from a full-time job, to a business venture.
I don't know, to what extent it would have applied to you. But by moving from working at home, in the garage, to proper, office premises. You would be more likely to be able to concentrate on the job, and get things done. Without any of the possible distractions or temptations to fix/help around the house.
Yes, buying when the interest charges, are similar to the rental charges, make sense.
You seemed to have gotten your foot in the door, with youtube at around the right time. Because (as you have said, many times, I think). Youtube, is much harder, and pays much less, these days. Their so called 'algorithm', which can make or break youtube channels, must also be worrying.
You have probably easily reached 'critical mass', by now. So, you could have options, of alternative funding and/or video outlets (as you've often mentioned, and already done, such as Odysee). If Youtube's, possible future changes/directions, get really silly.
In effect Fran has done that, through Patreon and the all too regular, suddenly 'have to move', Youtube video, situations. But, I suspect, it has limits, and Fran may be stretching those limits, too much, sooner or later.
My suspicion, is if Fran could somehow, make a dramatic move. Physically, through one of the suggested, or similar ways. E.g. Buy a suitable property (or rent if Fran must), in a much more economically efficient (cheaper), area. They would find, that they fairly soon, get use to it.
Sometimes with things like this. Ones mind, creates all sorts of visions, of bad/horrible things that will/may happen, if they go in a particular direction (such as buy a suitable place). But the reality, is much, much nicer. So much so, that 12 months, after such a change, they are kicking themselves, for not making the move twenty years ago.
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Nope, the kids love their school and their neighours and their house, as does Mrs EEVblog.
That is worth a lot. I'd guess it doubles the value of your home.
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It's quite difficult, making a decision, to go from a full-time job, to a business venture.
I don't know, to what extent it would have applied to you. But by moving from working at home, in the garage, to proper, office premises. You would be more likely to be able to concentrate on the job, and get things done. Without any of the possible distractions or temptations to fix/help around the house.
Even if we had the space to build a lab in the backyard she has said she wouldn't let me. It would be too easy for me to just step outside to the lab instead of spending time with her and the kids.
With the lab in the nearby business park I have to at least travel there which takes some effort, it's separates work and home life.
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My suspicion, is if Fran could somehow, make a dramatic move. Physically, through one of the suggested, or similar ways. E.g. Buy a suitable property (or rent if Fran must), in a much more economically efficient (cheaper), area. They would find, that they fairly soon, get use to it.
I can assure oyu that Fran is not going to move. She'll progressively shut down the Youtube business before that happens.
She has already said the factory would be the first to go if finances get squeezed any more.
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I may be substantially going against the flow of opinions, in this thread.
But as I see it, I somewhat understand, Frans thinking, ways and reasoning.
The thing is, Fran has managed to create a finely tuned/balanced, business (or well paid fun hobby), with their YouTube channel setup. It allows them to spend the huge number of dedicated hours, producing the stuff (hardware, Videos and things).
In relative peace and quiet, with few or no, distractions. Where they can actually live in their workspace (which many people, would probably HATE to do, in practice).
Because these are properly rented, real purpose built or modified, factory/warehouse/industrial areas. It means they can setup fairly large equipment/machines (as necessary/required), with proper access, ventilation, safety, floor types, powerful electrical connections, etc.
If the situation changes (for business reasons from time to time). E.g. A (hypothetical) Guitar accessory, sales dramatically petering out. They can close down that particular (1 of 4), rented out buildings/areas. Then (when the contract runs out), just move out of that area, and close down that particular functionality/aspect (of their business or very serious money making hobby).
I don't disagree with this line of thought. From a business perspective it can be worthwhile to rent a building for as long as there is a positive ROI and renting doesn't need sinking a large chunk of cash that is sitting still in bricks. However, for a personal living space (IOW a home) ownership sounds better to me because it is also part of the retirement fund.
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It's quite difficult, making a decision, to go from a full-time job, to a business venture.
I don't know, to what extent it would have applied to you. But by moving from working at home, in the garage, to proper, office premises. You would be more likely to be able to concentrate on the job, and get things done. Without any of the possible distractions or temptations to fix/help around the house.
Even if we had the space to build a lab in the backyard she has said she wouldn't let me. It would be too easy for me to just step outside to the lab instead of spending time with her and the kids.
With the lab in the nearby business park I have to at least travel there which takes some effort, it's separates work and home life.
That is understandable. The flipside is that you are away from home during the day like having a normal job. I have been a work-at-home dad for over 10 years which gave my kids access to me whenever they needed me or wanted to show something. Part of me wishes I had started working for myself sooner. Like when my kids where the same age as yours.
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Nope, the kids love their school and their neighours and their house, as does Mrs EEVblog.
That is worth a lot. I'd guess it doubles the value of your home.
Being in a neighborhood like that not only keeps the family happy, but in the long run a home in a neighborhood like that will be worth far more in a cheap not-so-desirable neighborhood. So ultimately the EEVblogs will probably be better off financially than they would be if they sold their current place and moved.
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True but personally I would use an investment fund (which I actually did) in order to spread the risks better and make sure to get some interest.
Agreed, and in the long run equity funds have actually outperformed property.
Not to mention owning a home is itself a liability, you have to maintain it. Not a big deal if you live in it, but more hassle if you don't (and don't even think about being a landlord.)
Plus there's a global housing shortage, it feels immoral to buy properties if they aren't used to live in.
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My suspicion, is if Fran could somehow, make a dramatic move. Physically, through one of the suggested, or similar ways. E.g. Buy a suitable property (or rent if Fran must), in a much more economically efficient (cheaper), area. They would find, that they fairly soon, get use to it.
I can assure oyu that Fran is not going to move. She'll progressively shut down the Youtube business before that happens.
She has already said the factory would be the first to go if finances get squeezed any more.
I find it sad to hear that. But on the other hand, some things, sometimes comes to an end, sooner or later. Such is life.
At least they are being sensible, about how things are going to shut/close down, when and if, the time comes. My understanding, is that it is not unknown, for some people, to be so set in their ways, they literally won't do anything about their situation, until the court appointed dept-collectors/bailiffs (names can vary, depending on country), come knocking on the door.
When/if such a moment occurs. They then would need to move, somewhere. That could be a time, to move in the right direction, by buying (or renting, as a possibly less good choice), somewhere much more, longer term, affordable and practical.
They then could consider, rebuilding their Youtube (and/or other business activities), back up again. From a solid, owned premises. Perhaps a somewhat large, Combined Home/Studio/Workshop type of house or building complex. Ideally (as already mentioned), in a nice, safe (in most peoples eyes), location, outside of Frans existing comfort-zone, of nice/safe places to live.
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True but personally I would use an investment fund (which I actually did) in order to spread the risks better and make sure to get some interest.
A house is a much better investment around here than a fund, I don't know if the same is true over there though. Not only does a house appreciate in value, but you can rent it out for extra income. If I'd been smart enough to buy a second house 15 years ago I'd be renting it out today for enough to pay the mortgage and then some. I'd be making money off it as it increases in value.
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I can assure oyu that Fran is not going to move. She'll progressively shut down the Youtube business before that happens.
She has already said the factory would be the first to go if finances get squeezed any more.
We already know almost exactly what's going to happen. She has boxed herself in with a set of extremely rigid constraints that are about to butt heads with reality. Income is going to drop, the factory space will go, then the dominoes will keep falling, the youtube content will go away or change and the income will drop further.
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Why bother if there is sheep who finances your flying lessons. All you need to do is make another cute crying video and you are good for the next few months.
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Why bother if there is sheep who finances your flying lessons. All you need to do is make another cute crying video and you are good for the next few months.
Not necessarily.
As I see it, they are acting like a small, independent, highly specialized, video production company. Producing, some fun, entertaining, and technically/historically interesting/useful content.
Hypothetically. If we go back to the 1980s (and also, closer to modern day media types), and they produced the same content. Which was then put onto VHS/Betamax/V2000 video tapes of the period. Some people would be tempted, especially with some of their content. To pay to rent (and maybe even buy), some of their production videos.
E.g. A pack, containing a large number of their recently restored/copied vintage film (educational) clips, and some of their best Youtube videos. As a VHS, DVD/Blu-ray boxed set or via a video distribution service (Netflix etc).
So I do think, they are producing stuff of value, to some people. If it is not up some peoples street. Then that is fine, as there are other sources of videos/information and so on.
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True but personally I would use an investment fund (which I actually did) in order to spread the risks better and make sure to get some interest.
Agreed, and in the long run equity funds have actually outperformed property.
Surely not when you factor in paying rent and moving because you got booted out etc. You'd have to have an awfully big investment fund for the interest and growth on that to pay for your rent and then have some left over.
Say $700/wk here in Sydney to rent an ordinary home, that's $36k/year. You'd need an investment fund of at least $800k to $1M to pay for that. You should have just bought the house.
Your house also doesn't care about bad finanical years or market cycles.
The numbers would work out pretty much like that video I posted above, just insert a home instead of an office.
I could get that same spreadsheet and run the numbers again for home ownership.
About the only time that home ownership doesn't make sense is if you move often and will do so for a majority of your life.
Not to mention owning a home is itself a liability, you have to maintain it. Not a big deal if you live in it, but more hassle if you don't (and don't even think about being a landlord.)
Owning your own home is the single best bit of life advice I could give someone.
Of course that's not for everyone, but for most people it's the best advice possible.
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Agreed, and in the long run equity funds have actually outperformed property.
Not to mention owning a home is itself a liability, you have to maintain it. Not a big deal if you live in it, but more hassle if you don't (and don't even think about being a landlord.)
Plus there's a global housing shortage, it feels immoral to buy properties if they aren't used to live in.
When you rent, you have to pay someone else to maintain it. It doesn't remove that liability, it just adds a layer. You are paying off someone else's investment and paying them to maintain it, then when you move you walk away with nothing.
There is a global excess of people, if the population were not growing so rapidly there would be no shortage of housing, and as long as your investment home isn't sitting empty, owners of rental properties are providing a valuable service, they're supplying housing to people who for whatever reason are unable or choose not to own one themselves.
I was 25 when I bought my house, it was a terrifying process that left me flat broke for a few years and it is not without ongoing challenges but it is by far the best life choice I have ever made. Now 18 years later I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and will have mine paid off in full within a year or two, meanwhile a comparable home would cost substantially more than I could afford today on my salary to rent. I would be forced to relocate to somewhere cheaper or live with roommates, instead I have a nice 3 bedroom detached home that is mine.
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Not to mention owning a home is itself a liability, you have to maintain it. Not a big deal if you live in it, but more hassle if you don't (and don't even think about being a landlord.)
Owning your own home is the single best bit of life advice I could give someone.
Of course that's not for everyone, but for most people it's the best advice possible.
Just a note: the way I read it tom66 means that owning a home you don't live in (but rent to others) does not have to be the best investment because that house will need maintaining. Likely to higher standards than your own home where you can make your own choice to live another year with a leaky window or fix it next week.
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When/if such a moment occurs. They then would need to move, somewhere. That could be a time, to move in the right direction, by buying (or renting, as a possibly less good choice), somewhere much more, longer term, affordable and practical.
She has actually said she would buy if she could, as the loan repayments aren't far off the rent, but the problems are:
1) She won't consider leaving downtown Philly under any circumstances
2) She can't get a loan because her Patreon income is not considered income by the bank, it's donations. And Youtube ad income is considered dodgy too. That sucks but it's banking reality.
3) Gentrification in Philly means there are practically no options left for a large combined space (live+lab+workshop+storage).
I have suggested that there might be means to circumvent problem #2 by using some unusual corporate structure where she actually gets a wage.
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Not to mention owning a home is itself a liability, you have to maintain it. Not a big deal if you live in it, but more hassle if you don't (and don't even think about being a landlord.)
Owning your own home is the single best bit of life advice I could give someone.
Of course that's not for everyone, but for most people it's the best advice possible.
Just a note: the way I read it tom66 means that owning a home you don't live in (but rent to others) does not have to be the best investment because that house will need maintaining. Likely to higher standards than your own home where you can make your own choice to live another year with a leaky window or fix it next week.
Oh, totally different story for an investment property.
Pro Tip: No one ever gets genuinely rich from investment properties. Investment properties are more what you have when you are already pretty well off and want to diversify your investment portfolio.
Huge numbers of aussies don't understand this and think you'll get rich if you have 10 investment properties all negatively geared (making a loss which is tax deducitible here) :palm:
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I was 25 when I bought my house, it was a terrifying process that left me flat broke for a few years and it is not without ongoing challenges but it is by far the best life choice I have ever made. Now 18 years later I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and will have mine paid off in full within a year or two, meanwhile a comparable home would cost substantially more than I could afford today on my salary to rent. I would be forced to relocate to somewhere cheaper or live with roommates, instead I have a nice 3 bedroom detached home that is mine.
:-+
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Agreed, and in the long run equity funds have actually outperformed property.
Not to mention owning a home is itself a liability, you have to maintain it. Not a big deal if you live in it, but more hassle if you don't (and don't even think about being a landlord.)
Plus there's a global housing shortage, it feels immoral to buy properties if they aren't used to live in.
When you rent, you have to pay someone else to maintain it. It doesn't remove that liability, it just adds a layer. You are paying off someone else's investment and paying them to maintain it, then when you move you walk away with nothing.
There is a global excess of people, if the population were not growing so rapidly there would be no shortage of housing, and as long as your investment home isn't sitting empty, owners of rental properties are providing a valuable service, they're supplying housing to people who for whatever reason are unable or choose not to own one themselves.
I was 25 when I bought my house, it was a terrifying process that left me flat broke for a few years and it is not without ongoing challenges but it is by far the best life choice I have ever made. Now 18 years later I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and will have mine paid off in full within a year or two, meanwhile a comparable home would cost substantially more than I could afford today on my salary to rent. I would be forced to relocate to somewhere cheaper or live with roommates, instead I have a nice 3 bedroom detached home that is mine.
I agree and will add another benefit to home ownership: home renos. It allows home owners to create work for themselves and to learn the joy of working hard and accomplishing things. It usually has a flexible schedule, pays fairly well and can be learned through youtube. I might be laid off soon and I'm not stressed because I have savings from selling a house I renovated and I would enjoy the opportunity to do lots of renos on the current home while job hunting.
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There's always a rewarding career as a Walmart night shift stocker or 7-Eleven clerk to fall back on.
They're big in the overcrowded crime infested cities.
Job security....
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She has actually said she would buy if she could, as the loan repayments aren't far off the rent, but the problems are:
1) She won't consider leaving downtown Philly under any circumstances
2) She can't get a loan because her Patreon income is not considered income by the bank, it's donations. And Youtube ad income is considered dodgy too. That sucks but it's banking reality.
3) Gentrification in Philly means there are practically no options left for a large combined space (live+lab+workshop+storage).
I have suggested that there might be means to circumvent problem #2 by using some unusual corporate structure where she actually gets a wage.
The downtown Philly bit, I can imagine reasons in my mind, which makes it make a lot of sense. It would be their final decision, anyway.
Such as, viability of living there, given how close shops and things are to where they live and public transport there.
Many people seem to criticize the apparent safety, of Fran's choice, of where it is safe to live. So, let me again, give a differing viewpoint.
If a person has lived in a particular area, for a very long time. They can get very accustomed, to the way things work in that area, and how the people there move about, look and act. This can enable a person, to rapidly sense if things don't feel right, or look out of place, or someone looks odd or risky.
That can allow, a person to handle the situation and live there in relative safety.
Whereas an outsider, may have a much harder job, sensing/detecting, when the situation or people, in the area, are acting funny/odd/dangerously (unless it is blindly obvious). Which can lead to them having a much greater risk of harm, in that area.
That can also give a person, a high level of feelings of security, even if it is not really that safe.
When a person has lived in the same place a long time. They can know, exactly where to go, to fulfill their needs. Which can save a lot of time and hassle, making life much more efficient.
They may well have a number of friends in that area, built up over many years. They may also have a large number of contacts (for electronics and things), in that area.
In other words, from a practical point of view, they could have a good point for wanting to continue to live there.
It is very easy to take a video camera, and film some really bad parts of an area, like the one linked to, earlier in this thread. But similarly, a video of some of the best/nicest/safest parts of where they live, could also be filmed, I presume.
2) and 3), make a lot of sense. The banks have their rules and final say, so if the bank says NO!, then no it is. 3), seems to be what started all these sad "Sorry, I'm having to leave this place", videos, that Fran has made. So, I can see that the writing is on the wall (the time is beginning to run out), and Fran's Youtube channel, probably can't stay the way it is, for much longer.
Perhaps months, rather than years.
So, from what you have said, in your post, quoted above. It sounds like they may end up, renting somewhere in downtown Philly, if they have to leave their existing sets of premises. Which may mean either significant downsizing of their Youtube and other adventures, or even just renting somewhere big enough to live in and that's it.
BigClive, seems to just live in a normal home. But still seems to keep/create a fairly busy/active/full Youtube presence. Maybe, Fran could do similar, and just not get involved with the things that need lots of space and/or storage room.
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The good old days of Fran videos…. Recreating the Russian SPUTNIK satellite audio oscillator :-+
https://youtu.be/b8KduFyLevk
I actually enjoyed watching this video and would watch more like this, if produced. Good old fashioned electronics fun :) It took me back to my childhood of experimenting with relatively simple Germanium transistor circuits. My transistor of choice was the AC128, soon replaced in my experiments with the venerable BC107, BC108 and BC109 silicon transistors.
Fraser
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The good old days of Fran videos…. Recreating the Russian SPUTNIK satellite audio oscillator :-+
https://youtu.be/b8KduFyLevk
I actually enjoyed watching this video and would watch more like this, if produced. Good old fashioned electronics fun :)
Those are the kinds of video that you only need a single room and a small lab for.
I don't know how much her (shared space) factory costs to rent, but I'd make the hard choice now and shut it down to save cost. She said she didn't use it for 18 months during covid and was still paying rent.
Her collection in the two sorage units I think is important and provides a huge lot of her interesting content.
If it came to the crunch, spend a few weeks sorting what stuff you'll potentially make videos on over the next 10 years and ditch the rest, keeping just the one storage unit.
Anyway, I should stop speculating, we can revisit this after the next money crisis video, which I sadly expect within the next 6 months. I hope that's not the case, but I think it's more likely than not.
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BigClive, seems to just live in a normal home. But still seems to keep/create a fairly busy/active/full Youtube presence.
Didn't he buy a new place fairly recently?
There was a place with the death trap elevator, but I think that fell through? That sounded like fun!
I can say that getting a new place is always exciting.
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BigClive, seems to just live in a normal home. But still seems to keep/create a fairly busy/active/full Youtube presence.
Didn't he buy a new place fairly recently?
There was a place with the death trap elevator, but I think that fell through? That sounded like fun!
I can say that getting a new place is always exciting.
I've NOT heard anything about him moving (but maybe I missed some announcement, as I tend to avoid his livestreams). He does somewhat frequently, apparently work on various jobs, in different places. Where he seems to stay at, for a few days or weeks, I don't think he makes it clear for exactly how long. But when he does, he seems to take some kit with him, and carry on creating his Youtube videos, in the hotel room, or wherever he/they are staying.
Maybe that is where this deathtrap lift, comes from?
In all fairness to Fran. They somewhat often, seem to undertake projects, which do need quite a lot of space, such as that big, human like statue machine thing, I've not really paid too much attention to. But sadly, a lot of that activity, would have to go, if they end up going down into just a somewhat small, normal, rented dwelling, in the area they want to live in.
So, they'd have to stick with small hand-held PCB, types of electronics Youtube videos, a bit like BigClive does. But, somehow, I just can't see such a transformation, taking place, smoothly or perhaps at all. Because if such big time downsizing, were to take place. It would probably already have begun, many years ago.
I.e. It could end up being an all or nothing situation with Fran (from what you seem to be indicating), and things simply grind to a halt. Because by the time the end is near, it is sort of too late, to reshape things, in a wild hurry. More dramatic, shedding of excess/all stored stuff, may need to take place.
As you seem to have been saying. It would be much better to decide NOW, what is probably going to happen anyway, and use the time to gently/peacefully move towards the final outcome. Rather than leaving things, until they eventually, fail.
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Plus there's a global housing shortage, it feels immoral to buy properties if they aren't used to live in.
The owners and the occupants don’t have to be the same people, though.
In order for someone to be able to rent, someone else had to step up and commit by plunking down money to buy/build the place the tenant can now more flexibly rent.
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Owning your own home is the single best bit of life advice I could give someone.
Of course that's not for everyone, but for most people it's the best advice possible.
Totally agree. My father literally bullied me into buying my own house in my mid 20's, I clearly recall him saying, "you will thank me for this eventually" !!! How right he was, bless him, no longer with us, taken well before his time. At the time it felt like a noose, almost no disposable income, lots of obligations and seemingly everyone with a hand in my pocket! Comical to look back on now, most people could pay for that house with a credit card now, for what it cost then! I've moved a few times since and am so grateful for my insistent father looking into my future for me! Had I left it just another 5 years I would have found it almost impossible to buy, I would have been a tenant for the rest of my life.
Of course the housing market is now rigged, drastic and deliberate under supply creating ever increasing demand, with incomes stagnating. Even graduate professionals are struggling to afford to buy their first house here in the UK, so what chance do low to average income earners stand?! All made worse by the lack of affordable rent social housing, caused by the big sell off in the 80's.
Although I do own my own house I really wish I hadn't allowed two extra property owning opportunities pass me by. Both local, actually on the same road and both drastically below market price due to the owners having to sell in a recession. It would have put me in a very tight financial situation with the economy in crisis, so no disposable income again for the foreseeable future. Had I bit the bullet I could have retired early on the rental income alone!! Ah well, hindsight and all that!
So yes, my advice is also, buy your own home if at all possible, everything else is secondary.
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When you rent, you have to pay someone else to maintain it. It doesn't remove that liability, it just adds a layer. You are paying off someone else's investment and paying them to maintain it, then when you move you walk away with nothing.
There is a global excess of people, if the population were not growing so rapidly there would be no shortage of housing, and as long as your investment home isn't sitting empty, owners of rental properties are providing a valuable service, they're supplying housing to people who for whatever reason are unable or choose not to own one themselves.
I was 25 when I bought my house, it was a terrifying process that left me flat broke for a few years and it is not without ongoing challenges but it is by far the best life choice I have ever made. Now 18 years later I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and will have mine paid off in full within a year or two, meanwhile a comparable home would cost substantially more than I could afford today on my salary to rent. I would be forced to relocate to somewhere cheaper or live with roommates, instead I have a nice 3 bedroom detached home that is mine.
To be clear, I'm very much in favour of owning your own home. I just completed two months ago on our first home, and looked at what our prior landlord had relisted the old house at: the same as our mortgage repayment. Now, that does implicitly include some maintenance, but there is no benefit in the long run to paying that rent. So I am very glad we are now homeowners (and it looks like I was very sensible fixing the mortgage for 5yrs in June @ 3% - we use ARMs a lot in the UK)
What I'm less clear on is the benefit to property as an investment outside of somewhere to live. I think it's overhyped, and the market is due a correction sooner or later. Probably not a catastrophic one, but I could see prices dropping by 10-20%. I'm in it for the long run, so this doesn't bother me.
Re global population, you may well argue it is too high, but you are not going to reduce it, so what are you to do? I would much rather see more people own homes than rent them, because in the longer term that means that they will not be paying rent into retirement and they will have an asset to pass on to their family. It is a societal failure to collect wealth in the hands of just a few landlords who were lucky to leverage one property after another into a passive income stream that only they benefit from. We do need landlords, but we could easily cope with less of them, I suspect.
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Well done on becoming a home owner, you won't regret it :-+
As far as investment is concerned, if you look at the stats, property out performs ALL other investments, OVER TIME. Technically though, you are unlikely to liquidate your home to realise the asset growth. Although, it is an easy asset to loan money against, if needed to improve the property, start a business etc. And of course, you can climb the property ladder by virtue of increasing equity.
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Well done on becoming a home owner, you won't regret it :-+
As far as investment is concerned, if you look at the stats, property out performs ALL other investments, OVER TIME. Technically though, you are unlikely to liquidate your home to realise the asset growth. Although, it is an easy asset to loan money against, if needed to improve the property, start a business etc. And of course, you can climb the property ladder by virtue of increasing equity.
Disagree for the UK.
Real data on sales prices:
https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=2000-09-01&location=http%3A%2F%2Flandregistry.data.gov.uk%2Fid%2Fregion%2Funited-kingdom&to=2022-09-01&lang=en (https://landregistry.data.gov.uk/app/ukhpi/browse?from=2000-09-01&location=http%3A%2F%2Flandregistry.data.gov.uk%2Fid%2Fregion%2Funited-kingdom&to=2022-09-01&lang=en)
If you bought the average house in the UK in 2000 (£90,912) and sold it today (£294,559) you would have seen a 3.24x return on investment.
Sounds great, right? But that's only a compound of about 5.5%. Meanwhile, the S&P500 over a similar timespan has seen about 11.8% per annum (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp))
Sure, you can get rent from a house (maybe 2-3% of the price), but to buy a house you need to tie up a lot of capital and have a mortgage, which is subject to the vagrancies of the mortgage market and your ability to keep repayments up. Meanwhile you can go and buy 1 share of S&P500 for about £50 from Vanguard and... well, that's the extent of your investment. The most you can ever lose is that.
Now of course historical results are no guarantee of future results blah blah, but manifestly the housing market is a worse vehicle as investments go and I'm not sure why there's so much obsession over using it as one.
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Because of leverage. If I have $250K and a good income to my name, no one will lend me $1.3M to invest in the S&P 500. Banks were falling all over themselves to lend me $1.3M to buy a $1.5M house.
I could invest $250K at 10-12% in the S&P (plus pay rent!) or I could invest $1.5M at 3-5% while putting up only $150K or so.
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Sounds great, right? But that's only a compound of about 5.5%. Meanwhile, the S&P500 over a similar timespan has seen about 11.8% per annum (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp))
But to get that 11.8% return you would firstly have to have the entire £90k upfront, and secondly essentially lose it for the term. Meantime you're still paying an increasing amount of rent. That's like buying the house for cash AND then paying for a mortgage on it.
OTOH, buy the house and it's essentially free until you cash in, whereupon it's better than a pension pot.
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Because of leverage. If I have $250K and a good income to my name, no one will lend me $1.3M to invest in the S&P 500. Banks were falling all over themselves to lend me $1.3M to buy a $1.5M house.
I could invest $250K at 10-12% in the S&P or I could invest $1.5M at 3-5% while putting up only $150K or so.
Yes - but that mortgage isn't free. About 6% if you were to fix it for say 30 years (I'm aware ARMs are less common in the US and it's more common to fix for 15 or 30 years, right?) So if you're borrowing $1.3m over 30 years at 6% that's about $7,800 per month in repayments assuming a capital repayment mortgage. The value of the $1.5mn property climbs by say ~5% per annum or $6,250 per month at the start, assuming historical norms remain. So the monthly gain is mostly taken up by the mortgage payment. At the end of all of it you've paid $2.8m (plus initial downpayment ~$200k) to buy a property that is now worth say $6.5mn (great!) but if you'd stuck that same $7,700/m in the market and let it compound at 11.8% simple annual gain that would be $3mn. Very similar outcome but with much lower risk. So while you get a bit more you have exposed yourself to huge risk owing the bank a large amount of money on an asset which may or may not be worth more by the end.
That's what I don't get by people saying property is a good investment, it's really quite an average-to-poor one by historical standards. Property isn't liquid either. It takes a while to sell and buy, it requires upkeep and constant repayments, maybe property/land tax too depending on the locale. I can stop and start contributions into my stock savings at any moment if I want. I can draw the whole amount down with a few days of notice if I want too (of course, it could be losing me money to do so, but the same risk applies to property, you could have to sell in a down market too.)
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Yes - but that mortgage isn't free. About 6% if you were to fix it for say 30 years (I'm aware ARMs are less common in the US and it's more common to fix for 15 or 30 years, right?) So if you're borrowing $1.3m over 30 years at 6% that's about $7,800 per month in repayments assuming a capital repayment mortgage. The value of the $1.5mn property climbs by say ~5% per annum or $6,250 per month at the start, assuming historical norms remain. So the monthly gain is mostly taken up by the mortgage payment. At the end of all of it you've paid $2.8m (plus initial downpayment ~$200k) to buy a property that is now worth say $6.5mn (great!) but if you'd stuck that same $7,700/m in the market and let it compound at 11.8% simple annual gain that would be $3mn. Very similar outcome but with much lower risk. So while you get a bit more you have exposed yourself to huge risk owing the bank a large amount of money on an asset which may or may not be worth more by the end.
Rent isn't free either. If you're putting "that same $7700/mo in the market", who is paying your ~$5000/mo rent?
That's what I don't get by people saying property is a good investment, it's really quite an average-to-poor one by historical standards. Property isn't liquid either. It takes a while to sell and buy, it requires upkeep and constant repayments, maybe property/land tax too depending on the locale. I can stop and start contributions into my stock savings at any moment if I want. I can draw the whole amount down with a few days of notice if I want too (of course, it could be losing me money to do so, but the same risk applies to property, you could have to sell in a down market too.)
It's proven over multiple generations to be the single most reliable way for the middle-class to become more secure in their finances.
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That's what I don't get by people saying property is a good investment, it's really quite an average-to-poor one by historical standards.
I always thought they meant "compared to renting and investing elsewhere". In other words, that renting, long-term, is such a negative "investment" that as soon as you can, you should buy your own property to live in. It is a much better strategy than renting but investing in some other instruments, unless your work requires you to travel all the time (so you end up renting anyway).
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That's what I don't get by people saying property is a good investment, it's really quite an average-to-poor one by historical standards.
I always thought they meant "compared to renting and investing elsewhere". In other words, that renting, long-term, is such a negative "investment" that as soon as you can, you should buy your own property to live in. It is a much better strategy than renting but investing in some other instruments, unless your work requires you to travel all the time (so you end up renting anyway).
Yep, no disagreement that owning the place you live in is a great idea. If only because I want to paint, remodel and change things about without having permission from the landlord all the time. And there's the security knowing the landlord won't just want to sell and leave you to find somewhere else. It's a shame it's a goal out of reach for so many (partially because there are so many landlords!)
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Time is ticking fo Fran to age enough so health may become a problem, no more or much less youtubing. A person has to live somewhere and support themselves as they get older. I do not know what Fran is thinking about.
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Oh, totally different story for an investment property.
Pro Tip: No one ever gets genuinely rich from investment properties. Investment properties are more what you have when you are already pretty well off and want to diversify your investment portfolio.
Huge numbers of aussies don't understand this and think you'll get rich if you have 10 investment properties all negatively geared (making a loss which is tax deducitible here) :palm:
A lot of people focus on the monthly cashflow and the likelyhood of home value increase but most seem to ignore the fact that your mortgage is being paid off. You get to keep the portion of rent that goes towards paying your principle down. That alone can be substantial even if you have a small negative monthly cashflow and home prices and rents stagnate.
Odds are rents will increase enough to make you cashflow positive eventually, particularly if you do renos. Home value will also likely increase.
I would like to be a landlord since I really enjoy doing home renos but I haven't done much of it because of the provincial legislation that allows tenants to live rent free and destroy a home for months before they can be evicted.
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I haven't done much of it because of the provincial legislation that allows tenants to live rent free and destroy a home for months before they can be evicted.
You hit the nail in the head, every wannabe landlord should think about this before getting into it. I myself have friends who got burned by this.
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Sounds great, right? But that's only a compound of about 5.5%. Meanwhile, the S&P500 over a similar timespan has seen about 11.8% per annum (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp))
Less income tax. And how would you pay for somewhere to live whilst paying into your portfolio, assuming you didn't have the gross capital to invest at the start?
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I would like to be a landlord since I really enjoy doing home renos but I haven't done much of it because of the provincial legislation that allows tenants to live rent free and destroy a home for months before they can be evicted.
Yeah in the current climate I would not be a landlord either. The stuff at the state level is not so bad, but at local levels Seattle passed a tenant rights law that resulted in the rapid loss of over 5,000 rental units as it is now just too risky and other locales are proposing similar laws. The end result is that rents rise even higher due to scarcity and the climate strongly favors big corporate landlords that can spread out the risk, exactly not what people actually want but most people act based on emotions and don't think things through. It may feel good to try to punish the big bad greedy landlords but the fact remains that there are a lot of people out there who can't or don't want to own, and landlords provide them a valuable service.
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Same is happening here in the UK. Due to the lack of social housing, the rental market is now private landlords but due to ever more restrictive tenants rights and now rapidly rising interest rates they are bailing out en mass. I'm not saying tenants shouldn't have rights but when it's so difficult to evict a tenant when they haven't paid rent for months, sometimes since they took occupancy, it makes being a landlord much less appealing. Some tenants now are serial non payers, just moving from property to property and never paying rent, just moving out before the eviction notice is about to be enforced and often leaving the place wrecked. Then because they have no fixed address it's virtually impossible to get them into court for the unpaid rent and damage.
Successive governments have never managed to resolve this problem, either due to lack of political will or because the cost of rebuilding the social housing stock is too expensive, who knows. It seems evident though, that there are now a hardcore of people who just want an easy life on welfare payments, living in cheap housing and a lifestyle of never wanting to work.
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Sounds great, right? But that's only a compound of about 5.5%. Meanwhile, the S&P500 over a similar timespan has seen about 11.8% per annum (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp))
But to get that 11.8% return you would firstly have to have the entire £90k upfront, and secondly essentially lose it for the term. Meantime you're still paying an increasing amount of rent. That's like buying the house for cash AND then paying for a mortgage on it.
Ofcourse not. Put the money into the fund piece by piece (like a monthly payment). Property by itself is not a good investment; you need to be able to rent it out and basically be able to write the property off after 30 or 40 years. Beyond that the risks get high. For example: Over here in the Netherlands owners of older properties (both commercial buildings and homes) are currently faced with spending massive amounts of money to improve the isolation of their buildings in order to meet government regulations where it comes to energy consumption.
A couple of years ago I read an article in Forbes that compared how well the investments of rich people did over the period of about 25 years. Their benchmark is the stock index which achieved 700%. At the bottom of the list there is Trump (with mostly property) who did 400%, Warren Buffet at the top did over 10000%. Interestingly most of the best performers invested in companies. In the same time the inflation cut the value of money in half.
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Ofcourse not. Put the money into the fund piece by piece (like a monthly payment). Property by itself is not a good investment; you need to be able to rent it out and basically be able to write the property off after 30 or 40 years. Beyond that the risks get high. For example: Over here in the Netherlands owners of older properties (both commercial buildings and homes) are currently faced with spending massive amounts of money to improve the isolation of their buildings in order to meet government regulations where it comes to energy consumption.
That is quite different than Canada. Homes hold their value quite well, partly due to cost of land and partly due to most of the demand being at the bottom of the market where the old homes are. We get rebates for certain insulation improvements but it's not mandatory that I know of.
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Same is happening here in the UK. Due to the lack of social housing, the rental market is now private landlords but due to ever more restrictive tenants rights and now rapidly rising interest rates they are bailing out en mass. I'm not saying tenants shouldn't have rights but when it's so difficult to evict a tenant when they haven't paid rent for months, sometimes since they took occupancy, it makes being a landlord much less appealing. Some tenants now are serial non payers, just moving from property to property and never paying rent, just moving out before the eviction notice is about to be enforced and often leaving the place wrecked. Then because they have no fixed address it's virtually impossible to get them into court for the unpaid rent and damage.
Successive governments have never managed to resolve this problem, either due to lack of political will or because the cost of rebuilding the social housing stock is too expensive, who knows. It seems evident though, that there are now a hardcore of people who just want an easy life on welfare payments, living in cheap housing and a lifestyle of never wanting to work.
I agree. It should be possible to have rights for tenants while also quickly dealing with the small portion who destroy homes and never pay rent. If they sorted that out, things would be better for everyone.
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Less income tax. And how would you pay for somewhere to live whilst paying into your portfolio, assuming you didn't have the gross capital to invest at the start?
I'm talking about property independent of living in it, i.e. being a landlord, as an investment. Certainly for the UK it doesn't make much sense, but seems to be seen in great regard by many.
On stock market investments: ISAs are tax free up to £20k contributions per year with indefinite gains, but even then you'd only be taxed on the gain at capital gains rates if you want to invest in more than that in a GIA. You can also contribute up to £40k into a pension tax free. To be able to max both of those out you need to have a very decent income for the UK, top 95%.
Obviously not all countries have income tax free investment accounts, but almost every country has a pension system at least which has favourable tax treatment.
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A couple of years ago I read an article in Forbes that compared how well the investments of rich people did over the period of about 25 years. Their benchmark is the stock index which achieved 700%. At the bottom of the list there is Trump (with mostly property) who did 400%, Warren Buffet at the top did over 10000%. Interestingly most of the best performers invested in companies. In the same time the inflation cut the value of money in half.
It's all a tradeoff of risk vs reward. Property is very low risk, housing is something everybody needs so owning a rental property provides fairly reliable income. Housing prices have always gone up over the long run so your asset is virtually guaranteed to increase in value. You may be able to earn more by investing in companies but you can also lose more.
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I agree. It should be possible to have rights for tenants while also quickly dealing with the small portion who destroy homes and never pay rent. If they sorted that out, things would be better for everyone.
It seems like the balance shouldn't be too hard to dial in. Tenants should have rights that protect them from unreasonable landlords and landlords should have rights that protect them from irresponsible tenants. If a person is causing damage to the property it should be easy to rapidly evict them. If they are unable to pay their rent for a few months it should be easy to evict them.
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Same is happening here in the UK. Due to the lack of social housing, the rental market is now private landlords but due to ever more restrictive tenants rights and now rapidly rising interest rates they are bailing out en mass. I'm not saying tenants shouldn't have rights but when it's so difficult to evict a tenant when they haven't paid rent for months, sometimes since they took occupancy, it makes being a landlord much less appealing. Some tenants now are serial non payers, just moving from property to property and never paying rent, just moving out before the eviction notice is about to be enforced and often leaving the place wrecked. Then because they have no fixed address it's virtually impossible to get them into court for the unpaid rent and damage.
Successive governments have never managed to resolve this problem, either due to lack of political will or because the cost of rebuilding the social housing stock is too expensive, who knows. It seems evident though, that there are now a hardcore of people who just want an easy life on welfare payments, living in cheap housing and a lifestyle of never wanting to work.
I agree. It should be possible to have rights for tenants while also quickly dealing with the small portion who destroy homes and never pay rent. If they sorted that out, things would be better for everyone.
here renters have very extensive rights with a few exceptions, not paying the rent or destroying things
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Home renting is a complex matter due to how having a home is a basic need.
So from the perspective of a renter, you want the owner to have minimal possibilities of having too much control over your life. And as a owner, you want the renter to have minimal possibilities of messing with your property and not paying their rent. From each perspective, the other party almost always has too many rights. But of course in most cases, renters have more rights - due to the fact it's their home that is in question.
Apart from hoping all parties will always act responsibly and according to the contract, I don't really have any good idea for improving things. Over here, this has gotten so bad that squatters can be very hard to evict. This is an extreme.
I don't know if renting is the "right" model for housing. But I don't really have anything better to propose for those that can't or don't want to own their house.
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Franky I'm of the opinion that most of our problems could be solved by having fewer people. The earth is not getting any larger, there is no new land left to discover, and most people desire to live in a small handful of particularly nice areas. Resources are also limited and the more people there are, the thinner the resources get spread. If the population stopped growing housing would catch up.
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Franky I'm of the opinion that most of our problems could be solved by having fewer people. The earth is not getting any larger, there is no new land left to discover, and most people desire to live in a small handful of particularly nice areas. Resources are also limited and the more people there are, the thinner the resources get spread. If the population stopped growing housing would catch up.
Oh, don't worry...population will certainly decrease when the environmental situation really hits the fan. I suspect a significant fraction of the world population will be lost in the next 100 years.
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What I'm less clear on is the benefit to property as an investment outside of somewhere to live. I think it's overhyped, and the market is due a correction sooner or later. Probably not a catastrophic one, but I could see prices dropping by 10-20%. I'm in it for the long run, so this doesn't bother me.
Prices are dropping a lot in Sydney right now.
My suburb of Baulkham Hills dropped 18% in the correction of 2019, one of the biggest drops in the country, but then had a record gains during the crazy covid madness boom.
If they keep dropping it could actually make financial sense to buy a small run down place nearby and turn that into the lab and rent the current lab out.
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Oh, totally different story for an investment property.
Pro Tip: No one ever gets genuinely rich from investment properties. Investment properties are more what you have when you are already pretty well off and want to diversify your investment portfolio.
Huge numbers of aussies don't understand this and think you'll get rich if you have 10 investment properties all negatively geared (making a loss which is tax deducitible here) :palm:
A lot of people focus on the monthly cashflow and the likelyhood of home value increase but most seem to ignore the fact that your mortgage is being paid off. You get to keep the portion of rent that goes towards paying your principle down. That alone can be substantial even if you have a small negative monthly cashflow and home prices and rents stagnate.
And every spare cent you earn goes into an offset account that reduces that interest.
2nd best advice is to pay off your loan like crazy in the first 5 years, every spare cent.
I literally paid cash for my lab, took it out of my home loan offset account savings, no bank permission needed.
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Prices are dropping a lot in Sydney right now.
My suburb of Baulkham Hills dropped 18% in the correction of 2019, one of the biggest drops in the country, but then had a record gains during the crazy covid madness boom.
If they keep dropping it could actually make financial sense to buy a small run down place nearby and turn that into the lab and rent the current lab out.
That's probably good, from what I've read the situation in Sydney is even more absurd than it is where I am, it has all the appearances of a bubble. My house has dropped in value by ~$400k this year and I'm happy about that, hopefully it will stop the rapid increases of my property taxes.
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Sounds great, right? But that's only a compound of about 5.5%. Meanwhile, the S&P500 over a similar timespan has seen about 11.8% per annum (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp))
Less income tax. And how would you pay for somewhere to live whilst paying into your portfolio, assuming you didn't have the gross capital to invest at the start?
Yep, tax.
Putting cash into your homeloan is not only a guaranteed rate, it compounds.
Selling your home is also tax free here.
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Sounds great, right? But that's only a compound of about 5.5%. Meanwhile, the S&P500 over a similar timespan has seen about 11.8% per annum (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp))
But to get that 11.8% return you would firstly have to have the entire £90k upfront, and secondly essentially lose it for the term. Meantime you're still paying an increasing amount of rent. That's like buying the house for cash AND then paying for a mortgage on it.
Ofcourse not. Put the money into the fund piece by piece (like a monthly payment). Property by itself is not a good investment; you need to be able to rent it out and basically be able to write the property off after 30 or 40 years. Beyond that the risks get high. For example: Over here in the Netherlands owners of older properties (both commercial buildings and homes) are currently faced with spending massive amounts of money to improve the isolation of their buildings in order to meet government regulations where it comes to energy consumption.
A couple of years ago I read an article in Forbes that compared how well the investments of rich people did over the period of about 25 years. Their benchmark is the stock index which achieved 700%. At the bottom of the list there is Trump (with mostly property) who did 400%, Warren Buffet at the top did over 10000%. Interestingly most of the best performers invested in companies. In the same time the inflation cut the value of money in half.
Sure, but do that after you own your home, or a good chunk of it at least.
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Franky I'm of the opinion that most of our problems could be solved by having fewer people. The earth is not getting any larger, there is no new land left to discover, and most people desire to live in a small handful of particularly nice areas. Resources are also limited and the more people there are, the thinner the resources get spread. If the population stopped growing housing would catch up.
Oh, don't worry...population will certainly decrease when the environmental situation really hits the fan. I suspect a significant fraction of the world population will be lost in the next 100 years.
It won't be caused much by environment changing, but by our political response to changes.
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Prices are dropping a lot in Sydney right now.
My suburb of Baulkham Hills dropped 18% in the correction of 2019, one of the biggest drops in the country, but then had a record gains during the crazy covid madness boom.
If they keep dropping it could actually make financial sense to buy a small run down place nearby and turn that into the lab and rent the current lab out.
That's probably good, from what I've read the situation in Sydney is even more absurd than it is where I am, it has all the appearances of a bubble. My house has dropped in value by ~$400k this year and I'm happy about that, hopefully it will stop the rapid increases of my property taxes.
I sincerely hope my house plummets in value. Doesn't worry me one bit, just provides opportunities for myself and others.
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And every spare cent you earn goes into an offset account that reduces that interest.
2nd best advice is to pay off your loan like crazy in the first 5 years, every spare cent.
That depends on a few things, IMO: your level of discipline to actually save/invest somewhere else, and the spread between your mortgage rate and the alternative investment options.
The discipline needed to invest in place X (excess mortgage payments) vs place Y (an alternative investment) doesn't seem that different.
My mortgage is 3.25% fixed rate. I can buy US government I-bonds paying 6.89%. The bonds are taxable federally, but not by the state, but that is still a better return than 3.25% and is as safe as I need it to be. If the US government defaults, I have big problems no matter where I've invested.
If someone can't hold complex advice in their head, or if any spare money is likely to turn into cars, big TVs, and vacations, paying down the mortgage early is fantastic advice. If someone has a fixed rate mortgage at around half the risk-free rate, the optimal advice becomes more nuanced.
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Franky I'm of the opinion that most of our problems could be solved by having fewer people. The earth is not getting any larger, there is no new land left to discover, and most people desire to live in a small handful of particularly nice areas. Resources are also limited and the more people there are, the thinner the resources get spread. If the population stopped growing housing would catch up.
Oh, don't worry...population will certainly decrease when the environmental situation really hits the fan. I suspect a significant fraction of the world population will be lost in the next 100 years.
In 100 years, 99.99% of those alive today will be dead, unless we get a lot better at living past age 100. So you are probably correct.
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If someone can't hold complex advice in their head, or if any spare money is likely to turn into cars, big TVs, and vacations, paying down the mortgage early is fantastic advice. If someone has a fixed rate mortgage at around half the risk-free rate, the optimal advice becomes more nuanced.
Indeed. If you locked in one of those insanely low fixed 30 year rates, it's a different equation.
We don't have that here in Australia, 2-3 years fixed is most common, 5 years tops. No such thing as a 20-30yr fixed rate. I advised everyone on Twitter to lock in a home loan rate at 2% early in the year. I hope some took my advice.
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I advised everyone on Twitter to lock in a home loan rate at 2% early in the year. I hope some took my advice.
Oh yeah. I don't even like my place but I locked in earlier this year, while I am biding my time ...
I am eagerly awaiting a correction so that a tiny 70 year old hovel that hasn't been renovated since the Nixon Administration doesn't cost close to 400K$ (CDN but still)
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And never pay off the note early as "They" don't like that because they miss out on the grift that they will make off you in you lifetime, not to mention hoping they can repossess you with foreclosure into the street.
It's all a big banker scam. They gave loans to people who they knew could never qualify. Next, pump and dump, wash and repeat. Circa 2008 reset.
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If "they" do not want you to pay the principal earlier that would be in the mortgage paper as early payment penalties. If there is no such provision in your mortgage than you can pay as fast as you want/can. One should be aware of this when getting a mortgage.
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Indeed. If you locked in one of those insanely low fixed 30 year rates, it's a different equation.
We don't have that here in Australia, 2-3 years fixed is most common, 5 years tops. No such thing as a 20-30yr fixed rate. I advised everyone on Twitter to lock in a home loan rate at 2% early in the year. I hope some took my advice.
Seems like a similar arrangement to the UK, most of our mortgages are ARMs.
This has caught some people out, a family member with a very expensive house looking at going from 1.6% to 6.4% next year.
I would love to secure 30 year loan at 3.2% like the Americans seem to manage (though I understand new rates are closer to 5-6%). But all the 30 year products here are 6%+. Perhaps in the near future if bank base rates return to normal 5% or so levels -- they may look more attractive.
You can overpay typically between 10-20% of the balance per year here as well. Anything more attracts a penalty.
Overpaying your own home loan is very sensible especially if you can become mortgage free in your mid life. That's HUGE.
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Indeed. If you locked in one of those insanely low fixed 30 year rates, it's a different equation.
We don't have that here in Australia, 2-3 years fixed is most common, 5 years tops. No such thing as a 20-30yr fixed rate. I advised everyone on Twitter to lock in a home loan rate at 2% early in the year. I hope some took my advice.
Seems like a similar arrangement to the UK, most of our mortgages are ARMs.
This has caught some people out, a family member with a very expensive house looking at going from 1.6% to 6.4% next year.
Everyone here is in the same boat progressively from right now to over the next 2-3 years. Most people do not have 5 years fixed terms, and 30 year does not exist here. I think technically a few lenders might have 10 year options, but it's basically not a thing here.
I would love to secure 30 year loan at 3.2% like the Americans seem to manage (though I understand new rates are closer to 5-6%). But all the 30 year products here are 6%+. Perhaps in the near future if bank base rates return to normal 5% or so levels -- they may look more attractive.
The yanks get 30 year fixed terms because their lenders are government own and backed (Freddie/Fanny) at government bond rates. No such thing here.
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[The yanks get 30 year fixed terms because their lenders are government own and backed (Freddie/Fanny) at government bond rates. No such thing here.
That’s only true for “conforming loans”, not for jumbo loans (loans over about $647K).
There’s a ready appetite for purchasing jumbo loans and so the additional cost for jumbos in the US is relatively low. My loans (refinanced twice) have all been jumbos, starting at 6.5% in 2007, then re-fi’d to 4.5%, then 3.25%. I was looking to pull the trigger if it hit 2.75%, but I was always an 1/8th over that so missed out. With perfect hindsight, I should have taken the 2.875%, of course.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/conformingloan.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/conformingloan.asp)
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We had an odd period in the UK mortgage market where 2, 5 and 10 year fixed terms were all priced around 3%. (Spread of only 0.5% between them all.) I guess we'll see if fixing at 3% for 5yr from June this year will turn out to be a good idea. Typically a 2 year mortgage would be around 1.5% with sufficient equity; 5 years around 2.5%; and 10yrs at 3%+ going by 2018-2021 rates. Relatively few companies offer the 10yr, and AFAIK only one or two offer beyond that up to full term mortgages.
I thought being a first time buyer with relatively low equity in the property 5yrs was financially prudent as it reduced the chance of being in an equity trap - another side effect of our mortgage fixes short being your house value had better stay up or you will end up trapped in an unfavourable rate. Since this usually correlates with an economic downturn, it is the worst time for such effects to correlate.
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Franky I'm of the opinion that most of our problems could be solved by having fewer people. The earth is not getting any larger, there is no new land left to discover, and most people desire to live in a small handful of particularly nice areas. Resources are also limited and the more people there are, the thinner the resources get spread. If the population stopped growing housing would catch up.
Oh, don't worry...population will certainly decrease when the environmental situation really hits the fan. I suspect a significant fraction of the world population will be lost in the next 100 years.
In 100 years, 99.99% of those alive today will be dead, unless we get a lot better at living past age 100. So you are probably correct.
Actually, most of the worlds land is unpopulated, the problem with lack of space is down to amenities outside large cities. If there is no employment, utilities, roads, support facilities, in a given area, it cannot populate. And the only way those issues can be addressed is through a governments political will. Even here in the UK, a small island country, the capital, London is the place that gets all the attention. As you move out, even as close as 30-50 miles away, opportunities fall away dramatically with some areas being virtual ghost towns with high crime, drugs and alcohol abuse problems. However, because of insane property prices, fewer and fewer people can afford to live there, so if you work in London you have to commute from as far away as 100 miles!!! Utterly crazy and a complete waste of resources that other parts of the country could provide, which would massively improve growth and prosperity.
Also, I recall reading somewhere, that the entire world population could be accommodated in Texas, with room to spare!! Not surprising really when great areas of land mass have no population at all, a lot of it in America, even more in Russia, Africa, South America etc, etc. Ok, some places are uninhabitable, but even here in the UK we have massive areas of land that could be developed for human habitation. That has to be better than cities like London, New York, Tokyo, etc, that are just bursting at the seams, causing all sorts of problems.
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Also, I recall reading somewhere, that the entire world population could be accommodated in Texas, with room to spare!!
That would put the entire state of Texas at a density roughly 10% more than New York City (around 30K/mi2 needed, vs around 27K/mi2 for NYC).
Finding a way to feed and water all of a Texas-sized denser-than-NYC would be a challenge, of course.
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We had an odd period in the UK mortgage market where 2, 5 and 10 year fixed terms were all priced around 3%. (Spread of only 0.5% between them all.) I guess we'll see if fixing at 3% for 5yr from June this year will turn out to be a good idea. Typically a 2 year mortgage would be around 1.5% with sufficient equity; 5 years around 2.5%; and 10yrs at 3%+ going by 2018-2021 rates. Relatively few companies offer the 10yr, and AFAIK only one or two offer beyond that up to full term mortgages.
I thought being a first time buyer with relatively low equity in the property 5yrs was financially prudent as it reduced the chance of being in an equity trap - another side effect of our mortgage fixes short being your house value had better stay up or you will end up trapped in an unfavourable rate. Since this usually correlates with an economic downturn, it is the worst time for such effects to correlate.
for while we had 20-30 years fixed at ~0% interest (with other fixed fees of about 1.5% )
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Seems like a similar arrangement to the UK, most of our mortgages are ARMs.
This has caught some people out, a family member with a very expensive house looking at going from 1.6% to 6.4% next year.
I would love to secure 30 year loan at 3.2% like the Americans seem to manage (though I understand new rates are closer to 5-6%). But all the 30 year products here are 6%+. Perhaps in the near future if bank base rates return to normal 5% or so levels -- they may look more attractive.
That seems crazy, ARMs are known as very dangerous things that people get when they can't qualify for a fixed mortgage. I had to get an ARM when I first bought my house but the moment it appreciated enough for me to be qualified I refinanced to a 30 year fixed and again later to a 15 year fixed at 3.25%.
On the other hand, I gather the UK locks in your property tax rate which doesn't happen here, so despite having a fixed mortgage my monthly payment rises regularly as the value of my house increases and taxes follow.
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Actually, most of the worlds land is unpopulated, the problem with lack of space is down to amenities outside large cities. If there is no employment, utilities, roads, support facilities, in a given area, it cannot populate.
That's a very big if. The roads in my region are clogged, often at all hours of the day, there are houses everywhere and they keep squeezing in more and it is becoming unbearable. This was a nice quiet rural area and now it's a city and I hate what it has become, I absolutely loathe urban environments and crowding, it causes me stress just thinking about being packed in with so many other people. They can't expand the roads because there is no space for it, everything is already built out. The population in this region has grown by leaps and bounds and it just keeps on growing. Personally I wish they would simply stop allowing any new housing to be built, it's full, and it's impossible to build your way out of a housing shortage. If they build more houses it simply draws in more people.
Most people want to live in nice areas that are in close proximity to jobs and nice scenery, bodies of water and such.
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Also, I recall reading somewhere, that the entire world population could be accommodated in Texas, with room to spare!!
That would put the entire state of Texas at a density roughly 10% more than New York City (around 30K/mi2 needed, vs around 27K/mi2 for NYC).
Finding a way to feed and water all of a Texas-sized denser-than-NYC would be a challenge, of course.
That sounds absolutely horrid. Texas would be a third world shit hole crawling with disease and trash. You may be able to fit that many people on paper, but the real world conditions would be intolerable and I would rather be dead than to have to live in close proximity to that many people.
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The percent of variable rate mortgages increased a lot in Canada lately, despite very low fixed rates, variable was a bit lower and I guess they stopped teaching the story of Icarus in schools.
It is common for variable rate mortgages to have fixed payments so when bank of Canada raises interest rates and your interest payment goes up, your principal payment goes down. Lots of people are now getting "triggered" and having a 'surprise' payment increase as the interest portion is higher than their payment and banks are mandated to make you pay at least a tiny bit into your principal.
Some people who don't qualify for traditional mortgages will go to private lenders who charge extra. Romspen, one of Canada's largest private mortgage lenders has recently frozen investor redemptions. Supposedly because people aren't making their mortgage payments.
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Actually, most of the worlds land is unpopulated, the problem with lack of space is down to amenities outside large cities. If there is no employment, utilities, roads, support facilities, in a given area, it cannot populate.
That's a very big if. The roads in my region are clogged, often at all hours of the day, there are houses everywhere and they keep squeezing in more and it is becoming unbearable. This was a nice quiet rural area and now it's a city and I hate what it has become, I absolutely loathe urban environments and crowding, it causes me stress just thinking about being packed in with so many other people. They can't expand the roads because there is no space for it, everything is already built out. The population in this region has grown by leaps and bounds and it just keeps on growing. Personally I wish they would simply stop allowing any new housing to be built, it's full, and it's impossible to build your way out of a housing shortage. If they build more houses it simply draws in more people.
Most people want to live in nice areas that are in close proximity to jobs and nice scenery, bodies of water and such.
I'm with you on that. I have no idea why people pay so much extra to live in the crowded areas, all while complaining about the cost and while there are tons of great places to live near by.
Some cities try to limit density and my province, BC is trying to remove their power to do so. Eby’s proposed policies include legalizing secondary suites (i.e. basement apartments) across the province and allowing any single-family home to be replaced with up to three units on the same footprint.
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This has caught some people out, a family member with a very expensive house looking at going from 1.6% to 6.4% next year.
Ooch!! :wtf:
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I have no idea why people pay so much extra to live in the crowded areas, all while complaining about the cost and while there are tons of great places to live near by.
"Crowded" areas are better places to live. They are more efficient and have more things to do. I used to live in the suburbs...It was awful. You have to drive to *everything* and all the good stuff is far away. I live in the city now and I walk, bike, or bus to nearly everything. See "Not Just Bikes" video (videos?) about cities versus suburbs. Suburbs suck money and aren't sustainable in the long term. A long term sustainable future cannot possibly include every human having an automobile and living spread apart.
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It is common for variable rate mortgages to have fixed payments so when bank of Canada raises interest rates and your interest payment goes up, your principal payment goes down. Lots of people are now getting "triggered" and having a 'surprise' payment increase
Variable rate is a gamble...That is why I never took a variable rate mortgage at renewals. Fixed rate is a bit higher but in a few months you stop noticing it and you can plan your finances and have no surprises.
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bought my USA home in April 2021: 15years, 2.1%. ^-^
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I have no idea why people pay so much extra to live in the crowded areas, all while complaining about the cost and while there are tons of great places to live near by.
"Crowded" areas are better places to live. They are more efficient and have more things to do. I used to live in the suburbs...It was awful. You have to drive to *everything* and all the good stuff is far away. I live in the city now and I walk, bike, or bus to nearly everything. See "Not Just Bikes" video (videos?) about cities versus suburbs. Suburbs suck money and aren't sustainable in the long term. A long term sustainable future cannot possibly include every human having an automobile and living spread apart.
'more things to do': if you like being in crowds. I like playing outside and there is much more of that around small to medium cities than there is in crowded cities surrounded in urban sprawl.
I live in a small city, I can walk to the grocery store, hardware store, restaurants, wineries, breweries, entertainment venues and sports fields. My walks are shorter than they'd be in a big city and they are through quiet, tree-lined streets instead of noisy, crowded, shady city. I can also walk to the beach to go swimming or hit the hiking / mountain biking trails right near my house. There is also lots of great terrain for dirt biking and camping and a ski hill close by with short lift-lines.
I'm also able to afford a house here for the cost of a condo in crowded cities. I hear my neighbors' dogs sometimes but that that is more pleasant and less common than hearing the neighbors' footsteps and music and smelling their cigarettes like I did when I lived in a condo.
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When you are into the Ham radio and require space for HF antennas, the choice is obvious ;D
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It is common for variable rate mortgages to have fixed payments so when bank of Canada raises interest rates and your interest payment goes up, your principal payment goes down. Lots of people are now getting "triggered" and having a 'surprise' payment increase
Variable rate is a gamble...That is why I never took a variable rate mortgage at renewals. Fixed rate is a bit higher but in a few months you stop noticing it and you can plan your finances and have no surprises.
My realtor and mortgage broker pushed the variable saying you can switch to fixed at any time. The problem though is fixed rate changes without notice based on 5 year bond and went up before variable rate did.
Now we are in a strange time where 3 yr fixed (~5.7%) and 5 yr variable rate (~5.5%) are higher than 5 yr fixed (~5.4%). Makes it seem as though rates will be going down soon.
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bought my USA home in April 2021: 15years, 2.1%. ^-^
:-+
Coupled with no penalty overpayments, you are all set!
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I have no idea why people pay so much extra to live in the crowded areas, all while complaining about the cost and while there are tons of great places to live near by.
"Crowded" areas are better places to live. They are more efficient and have more things to do.
Places with lots of accessible things to do (that you like doing) are better places to live. Places where you have to share a wall or ceiling/floor with inconsiderate (to include unaware) people are worse places to live.
I'm in a low-density part of Cambridge, MA. It's a great compromise in that I have a mile walk to Harvard Sq, a three mile walk to MIT, yet I have ample street parking, a fenced yard to let the dog and kids play in, we have a small vegetable garden, and no walls shared with any neighbors. The main downside is that if I had to buy it today, it's a 2-comma price twice over (and I probably couldn't afford it; I bought it in 2007 at less than half of its current value).
bought my USA home in April 2021: 15years, 2.1%. ^-^
:-+
Couplead with no penalty overpayments, you are all set!
Why would anyone want to overpay a 2.1% mortgage right now?
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"Crowded" areas are better places to live. They are more efficient and have more things to do. I used to live in the suburbs...It was awful. You have to drive to *everything* and all the good stuff is far away.
More things to do like what? I like to tinker with electronics, work on cars, fly model airplanes and hike in solitude, with the exception of the first one I can't do any of those things in a city. To each their own but I think urban cities are hell, I absolutely hate them. I dream of being able to retire some day and have 10-20 acres of property in a sparsely populated rural area all to myself. Whenever I'm in Eastern Washington I can feel my stress fade away as I get away from the crowds and traffic and onto quiet rural roads.
Cities are better places for YOU to live because you like that sort of thing, I'm afraid I'll never understand why but I'm glad some people do. They are certainly not better places for me to live though, there is ONE reason I live near a city and that is because that's where the good jobs are and I find suburbs with single family homes to be an acceptable compromise, I can venture into the city if I really have to but most of the stuff I really need is nearby and most importantly I can get away to some wilderness with less than an hour drive. As soon as I don't have to work I'm out.
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By overpayment I meant paying extra on top of the scheduled payments. The money you pay on top go directly to reducing your principal borrowed amount, which means you reduce interest payments, and interest payments ARE the killer because they compound.
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By overpayment I meant paying extra on top of the scheduled payments. The money you pay on top go directly to reducing your principal borrowed amount, which means you reduce interest payments, and interest payments ARE the killer because they compound.
A US buyer can buyer $10K/person/yr of I-bonds (backed by full faith of credit of the US gov't) that are paying 6.89% right now.
That's what I meant when I asked why anyone would pay down a 2.1% mortgage when they have significantly better risk-free investments available.
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Also, I recall reading somewhere, that the entire world population could be accommodated in Texas, with room to spare!!
That would put the entire state of Texas at a density roughly 10% more than New York City (around 30K/mi2 needed, vs around 27K/mi2 for NYC).
Finding a way to feed and water all of a Texas-sized denser-than-NYC would be a challenge, of course.
That sounds absolutely horrid. Texas would be a third world shit hole crawling with disease and trash. You may be able to fit that many people on paper, but the real world conditions would be intolerable and I would rather be dead than to have to live in close proximity to that many people.
I was only using that as an indication of just how much uninhabited land there is in the world. Not for a second suggesting it could be a reality!!
Who the hell wants to live in Texas anyway?!!! ;)
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I was only using that as an indication of just how much uninhabited land there is in the world. Not for a second suggesting it could be a reality!!
Who the hell wants to live in Texas anyway?!!! ;)
I've been to Texas before, it's actually quite nice. A bit flat and dusty for my liking and a bit too hot, but most of the people I encountered were friendly and there's lots of space and that's nice.
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Too flat. If I was going to live anywhere in the US it would be Washington (state), Colorado or North California. Mountains and trees - absolutely gorgeous. Just... maybe avoid the fire seasons.
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By overpayment I meant paying extra on top of the scheduled payments. The money you pay on top go directly to reducing your principal borrowed amount, which means you reduce interest payments, and interest payments ARE the killer because they compound.
sure, but inflation is ~10% at the moment
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Too flat. If I was going to live anywhere in the US it would be Washington (state), Colorado or North California. Mountains and trees - absolutely gorgeous. Just... maybe avoid the fire seasons.
Washington state is beautiful, I've spent my whole life here and it has everything. There is the ocean, lakes, mountains, valleys, forests, deserts, all within a few hours drive. Colorado, Northern California and Oregon are similar. Unfortunately everyone else thinks so too and these places are all getting overrun. Fire season on this side of the mountains is a relatively new phenomenon, it's been happening for a long time in the eastern half of the state though.
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Cities are better places for YOU to live because you like that sort of thing, I'm afraid I'll never understand why but I'm glad some people do. They are certainly not better places for me to live though, there is ONE reason I live near a city and that is because that's where the good jobs are and I find suburbs with single family homes to be an acceptable compromise, I can venture into the city if I really have to but most of the stuff I really need is nearby and most importantly I can get away to some wilderness with less than an hour drive. As soon as I don't have to work I'm out.
I rarely go into Sydney CBD. As for the inner city stuff, it's just awful.
Tried to go to a kids birthday party last weekend and FAILED. From Baulkham Hills to Newtown, decided to go over the bridge, big mistake. 1hr 15min after leaving we weren't even on the harbour bridge yet, complete gridlock, kids decided to just turn around and go home. It would have been an extra 30min at least to get to Newtown, and then god knows how long to find a place to park in some crowded one way back street and then walk to the pub venue on the main road. Well over 2 hour one way to get if we kept going, to get 25km as the crow flies.
Just freaking awful. Inner city sucks arse, and I dred every time I have to go anywhere near it by car.
Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
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Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
But that's like the other chap says: in the suburbs you need a car to get anywhere, whereas in town you just hop on a bus or walk (and can get home when pissed).
If you're in the suburbs you will hate having to go into the city and see the suburb stuff as just fine. But, conversely, someone in the city will struggle to travel to the suburbs yet have no problem around town.
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Cities are better places for YOU to live because you like that sort of thing, I'm afraid I'll never understand why but I'm glad some people do. They are certainly not better places for me to live though, there is ONE reason I live near a city and that is because that's where the good jobs are and I find suburbs with single family homes to be an acceptable compromise, I can venture into the city if I really have to but most of the stuff I really need is nearby and most importantly I can get away to some wilderness with less than an hour drive. As soon as I don't have to work I'm out.
I rarely go into Sydney CBD. As for the inner city stuff, it's just awful.
Tried to go to a kids birthday party last weekend and FAILED. From Baulkham Hills to Newtown, decided to go over the bridge, big mistake. 1hr 15min after leaving we weren't even on the harbour bridge yet, complete gridlock, kids decided to just turn around and go home. It would have been an extra 30min at least to get to Newtown, and then god knows how long to find a place to park in some crowded one way back street and then walk to the pub venue on the main road. Well over 2 hour one way to get if we kept going, to get 25km as the crow flies.
Just freaking awful. Inner city sucks arse, and I dred every time I have to go anywhere near it by car.
I agree. When I need to go to a city center I prefer go by train /metro or by bicycle. Unfortunately going by car is not always avoidable. Driving through cities like Paris or Rome is no fun. Using Google maps for navigation helps though; you at least get routed away from the worst congestion.
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I rarely go into Sydney CBD. As for the inner city stuff, it's just awful.
Tried to go to a kids birthday party last weekend and FAILED. From Baulkham Hills to Newtown, decided to go over the bridge, big mistake. 1hr 15min after leaving we weren't even on the harbour bridge yet, complete gridlock, kids decided to just turn around and go home. It would have been an extra 30min at least to get to Newtown, and then god knows how long to find a place to park in some crowded one way back street and then walk to the pub venue on the main road. Well over 2 hour one way to get if we kept going, to get 25km as the crow flies.
Just freaking awful. Inner city sucks arse, and I dred every time I have to go anywhere near it by car.
Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
So, cities "suck" because of all the suburbanites driving in their cars. I think you're missing the irony there. It's the cars that suck. Cities generate more revenue per acre than the sprawling suburbs. Suburbs are a poor use of land. Cities need to be designed around walking, biking, and mass transit. Suburbs are great if you're white and wealthy.
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So, cities "suck" because of all the suburbanites driving in their cars. I think you're missing the irony there. It's the cars that suck. Cities generate more revenue per acre than the sprawling suburbs. Suburbs are a poor use of land. Cities need to be designed around walking, biking, and mass transit. Suburbs are great if you're white and wealthy.
No, cities suck because they are an unlivable hellscape, concrete jungles crowded, expensive and infested with crime, vagrants, filth and snobby hipsters. There's no open space and nothing to do that I like doing. My office is in downtown Seattle and I absolutely hate going there unless I have to. I love cars, I like working on them, I like driving them, even if I lived in the city I'd still need a car to actually go anywhere outside of the city. It's cold and wet here 6 months out of the year during which time bikes are useless and walking is unpleasant at best. Since it's more expensive generally to live in cities than suburbs I have no idea why you'd say that suburbs are for the wealthy, and I don't know what race has to do with anything either, frankly I think it's quite racist to even bring it up. If you want to live in a city that's fine, but there is absolutely no way in hell I could ever tolerate it, I spend as little time as possible downtown, I hate it there.
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Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
But that's like the other chap says: in the suburbs you need a car to get anywhere, whereas in town you just hop on a bus or walk (and can get home when pissed).
If you're in the suburbs you will hate having to go into the city and see the suburb stuff as just fine. But, conversely, someone in the city will struggle to travel to the suburbs yet have no problem around town.
Yeah except when the bus route gets cancelled due to staffing or mechanical issues, or you miss the last bus, or there's a homeless guy that reeks of pee smoking crack on the bus or harassing people, all things I have encountered. I bus into the office when I go and pre-pandemic it worked ok, but only because I live near a park & ride. Now routes get cancelled often enough that transit is getting impractical. Seattle is very anti-car but they can't seem to run a transit system either. Some people get by without a car but I can't, I'm frequently moving heavy stuff around, equipment, materials, even groceries that are impractical to carry, a car is mandatory. Can't get on a bus with a model airplane to go to a flying field, can't take firearms on the bus, can't take a stack of 2x4's.
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I rarely go into Sydney CBD. As for the inner city stuff, it's just awful.
Tried to go to a kids birthday party last weekend and FAILED. From Baulkham Hills to Newtown, decided to go over the bridge, big mistake. 1hr 15min after leaving we weren't even on the harbour bridge yet, complete gridlock, kids decided to just turn around and go home. It would have been an extra 30min at least to get to Newtown, and then god knows how long to find a place to park in some crowded one way back street and then walk to the pub venue on the main road. Well over 2 hour one way to get if we kept going, to get 25km as the crow flies.
Just freaking awful. Inner city sucks arse, and I dred every time I have to go anywhere near it by car.
Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
So, cities "suck" because of all the suburbanites driving in their cars. I think you're missing the irony there. It's the cars that suck. Cities generate more revenue per acre than the sprawling suburbs. Suburbs are a poor use of land. Cities need to be designed around walking, biking, and mass transit. Suburbs are great if you're white and wealthy.
As someone who for many years until recently did a every week day morning and afternoon run very similar to the one Dave mentioned, I can honestly say it's the on-going relentless civic fuckery that has caused this problem. We've normalized toll roads here, and taxes and tariffs for everything else, yet the somersault feats of excuses provided not to keep up infrastructure from the decision making boffins is somewhere between corrupt and criminal.
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So, cities "suck" because of all the suburbanites driving in their cars. I think you're missing the irony there. It's the cars that suck. Cities generate more revenue per acre than the sprawling suburbs. Suburbs are a poor use of land. Cities need to be designed around walking, biking, and mass transit. Suburbs are great if you're white and wealthy.
Yep, the reality is the cities subsidise the suburban sprawl, and allow it to exist. Suburbs aren't self-sustaining. There's isn't enough property tax or business tax to pay for their infrastructure (in most cases - unusually rich suburbs may be the exception), so the only option for the city is to continue growing the suburban area so that they can get developers and property tax to pay for the new road or new school that they need to support it.
And for those complaining about traffic in cities, please read up on induced demand. It's literally impossible to build enough car infrastructure in areas like this, because the desire to use a car outweighs all else. If you build more infrastructure, you will get more traffic, because you made it more convenient to use a car than the train.
Cities should be using public transport for the majority (>80%) of their citizens' transport needs. And there's nothing wrong with using public transport, but it can't really survive in parallel with massive car infrastructure, one thing or another has to give.
This doesn't mean you can't own a car or live in suburbia, but eventually, you're going to have to pay more tax to sustain that low-density lifestyle, as cities are slowly going broke trying to maintain it off the backs of the more productive city centre.
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I don’t know the UK city/town financial arrangements work, but in the US, city and surrounding towns/counties are generally independent.
Arlington and Lexington (two suburban towns near Boston) run their own roads, schools, parks, etc. If they build a new neighborhood, that doesn’t impose costs or obligations on the neighboring city of Cambridge or next-neighbor city of Boston. Boston isn’t going broke because of the suburbs. The suburb towns also aren’t going broke. (Arlington is nice, but is by no means exceptionally wealthy.)
If the cities are solvent and residents of the city are happy, everything sounds good. If the suburbs are solvent and residents there are happy, same.
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Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
But that's like the other chap says: in the suburbs you need a car to get anywhere, whereas in town you just hop on a bus or walk (and can get home when pissed).
Try living in the Sydney inner city locations and taking your kids to school or a party without a car, good luck. FYI hardly anyone actually lives in what is considered Sydney "city", (we call it the CBD, or Central Business Disctrict). By hardly any, I mean 16,600 people in the last census.
If you are single or a couple, then yeah, sure, don't bother with a car.
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I rarely go into Sydney CBD. As for the inner city stuff, it's just awful.
Tried to go to a kids birthday party last weekend and FAILED. From Baulkham Hills to Newtown, decided to go over the bridge, big mistake. 1hr 15min after leaving we weren't even on the harbour bridge yet, complete gridlock, kids decided to just turn around and go home. It would have been an extra 30min at least to get to Newtown, and then god knows how long to find a place to park in some crowded one way back street and then walk to the pub venue on the main road. Well over 2 hour one way to get if we kept going, to get 25km as the crow flies.
Just freaking awful. Inner city sucks arse, and I dred every time I have to go anywhere near it by car.
Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
I'm not familiar with Sydney, so apologies if this is a silly question but I put those two destinations into Google and it showed you could get there on two buses in 1 hour. Even if you had to take a cab on one or both ends to complete the journey would that not be more practical than ending up in gridlock? (Of course, the bus could get stuck in traffic too, but most good cities have bus lanes for a reason. If these aren't part of Sydney's transport network, that's a total fail.)
Every time I have visited London I have taken public transport when anywhere near the city. It is impractical to drive through it most times, even on Sundays - and using the circular gyratory known as the M25 is itself a special hell. (So much so that Terry Pratchett used it as basis for one of his storytelling devices (https://wiki.lspace.org/M25_London_Orbital).)
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So, cities "suck" because of all the suburbanites driving in their cars. I think you're missing the irony there. It's the cars that suck. Cities generate more revenue per acre than the sprawling suburbs. Suburbs are a poor use of land. Cities need to be designed around walking, biking, and mass transit. Suburbs are great if you're white and wealthy.
Since it's more expensive generally to live in cities than suburbs I have no idea why you'd say that suburbs are for the wealthy
Yep, that's just silly here in Sydney for example.
All the rich bastards live near the city and the harbour. The suburbs are for the poor people. The further the suburb from Sydney CBD the less expensive it gets.
The rich person joke in Sydney is that they will never venture any further west than Leichhardt, that's where the poor people live.
Here is a handy map. Rich people inside the circle, poorer people outside. But because it's Sydney, anything next to anything water is Richie Rich.
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I rarely go into Sydney CBD. As for the inner city stuff, it's just awful.
Tried to go to a kids birthday party last weekend and FAILED. From Baulkham Hills to Newtown, decided to go over the bridge, big mistake. 1hr 15min after leaving we weren't even on the harbour bridge yet, complete gridlock, kids decided to just turn around and go home. It would have been an extra 30min at least to get to Newtown, and then god knows how long to find a place to park in some crowded one way back street and then walk to the pub venue on the main road. Well over 2 hour one way to get if we kept going, to get 25km as the crow flies.
Just freaking awful. Inner city sucks arse, and I dred every time I have to go anywhere near it by car.
Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
I'm not familiar with Sydney, so apologies if this is a silly question but I put those two destinations into Google and it showed you could get there on two buses in 1 hour. Even if you had to take a cab on one or both ends to complete the journey would that not be more practical than ending up in gridlock?
With hindsight the Metro (train) would have been easier. Or the other way on the M4.
It's actually very quick to get from our place to the city by car, say, the Opera House, about 25min in good traffic. But in peak times the traffic sucks arse, and there are always roadworks or other things that delay everything.
But it all depends on the destination and the circumstances. I went to a show last month at the Paddo RSL, Oxford Street, Paddington. Impossible to park nearby, you wouldn't even think about. Closest parking option was 1km away. Not a problem for me, but someone I was with had bad knees and couldn't walk that. Only option was an Uber from their place in north sydney straight to the venue.
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I'm probably strange but my ideal location to live is an underground ex nuclear bunker!! Utterly sound proof, no interfering neighbors, no parking problems, can do anything you want and no one to complain, loads of space, weather can't bother you, no one knows you are there, perfect!
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weather can't bother you
I wonder how well they are coping with last night's "month's rain in an hour" deluge that left many roads as actual rivers.
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Venues in the suburbs are all easy to get to and have parking on site.
But that's like the other chap says: in the suburbs you need a car to get anywhere, whereas in town you just hop on a bus or walk (and can get home when pissed).
If you're in the suburbs you will hate having to go into the city and see the suburb stuff as just fine. But, conversely, someone in the city will struggle to travel to the suburbs yet have no problem around town.
Yeah except when the bus route gets cancelled due to staffing or mechanical issues, or you miss the last bus, or there's a homeless guy that reeks of pee smoking crack on the bus or harassing people, all things I have encountered. I bus into the office when I go and pre-pandemic it worked ok, but only because I live near a park & ride. Now routes get cancelled often enough that transit is getting impractical. Seattle is very anti-car but they can't seem to run a transit system either. Some people get by without a car but I can't, I'm frequently moving heavy stuff around, equipment, materials, even groceries that are impractical to carry, a car is mandatory. Can't get on a bus with a model airplane to go to a flying field, can't take firearms on the bus, can't take a stack of 2x4's.
You really should look into getting a bicycle. I have no problem transporting all kinds of stuff on a bicycle. Actually, transporting long items is much easier. If push comes to shove you can use a bracket or a trailer. Last summer I was in Biarittz and saw many people using a bracket to carry their surf board along the side of their bike or moped.
Use an electric bike and you don't have to peddle that hard. With the right outfit, cold weather and rain aren't an issue; you'll be warm. Wool is a key ingredient. I'm cycling year round nowadays. When the road is icy, I put ty-raps on the rear tire for extra grip. Works excellent.
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Yep, the reality is the cities subsidise the suburban sprawl, and allow it to exist. Suburbs aren't self-sustaining. There's isn't enough property tax or business tax to pay for their infrastructure (in most cases - unusually rich suburbs may be the exception), so the only option for the city is to continue growing the suburban area so that they can get developers and property tax to pay for the new road or new school that they need to support it.
Cities are not self sustaining either, they are utterly dependent on the rural areas to provide food. For reasons I have never been able to figure out, it generally costs a lot more to live in a city despite the many compromises one has to make to live there. The suburbs are in my opinion drastically superior for living, I can at least stretch out a little, I don't have to fight the crowds everywhere I go, I can take a walk at 10pm and not worry about getting mugged and I don't have any bums camped out on the side of my street stealing anything that isn't nailed down. Cities have their purpose, but I'm not sure why so many people like living in them so much. When I've been stuck downtown due to bus issues I can't really find anything to do. There are trendy bars and clubs and stuff but I have no interest in that. It's just big and crowded and filthy, and you have to pay handsomely to wallow in the crowds and filth.
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You really should look into getting a bicycle. I have no problem transporting all kinds of stuff on a bicycle. Actually, transporting long items is much easier. If push comes to shove you can use a bracket or a trailer. Last summer I was in Biarittz and saw many people using a bracket to carry their surf board along the side of their bike or moped.
Use an electric bike and you don't have to peddle that hard. With the right outfit, cold weather and rain aren't an issue; you'll be warm. Wool is a key ingredient. I'm cycling year round nowadays. When the road is icy, I put ty-raps on the rear tire for extra grip. Works excellent.
I have a bicycle, but try biking around Seattle and let me know how that goes. This whole region is mountainous, there are hills everywhere, not quite to the extent of San Francisco but you still can't really go anywhere without going up a long hill somewhere. Then in some places there are bike lanes and some places there aren't, and if you can't bike the whole way then a bike doesn't really work for that trip. An e-bike is a possibility that would mitigate the hills situation but I'd still rather drive my car. Biking on the road with cars is a terrifying experience that I've done a few times and have no intention of ever doing again. During the summer I put my bike in my car and drive over to the park by the bike trail and go for a ride on that, but there is no way I'm going to try to use it for day to day transport. Cars are nice, they're comfortable and versatile, protected from hazards and inclement weather, heated when it's cold out and cooled when it's hot out and offer a lot of cargo space.
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I'm not a city-dweller. I live in a small town in England, but not a suburb. But, I think there are a few reasons, having lived in the near-centre of a big city in the UK for a few years.
- Everything is close by, you basically never need to drive. You can go car free if you want. This is great for your physical health too. Not everyone can or wants to drive, especially not everywhere, whereas in suburban America you can rarely even go get a pint of milk without driving. Say you want to go have a drink with friends. What if there's no bus? Are you going to pay $50 for a cab to get to the area with the bar?
- The risk of being mugged or harassed is really not that significant (at least for me, being a 6 foot tall white guy). It never happened to me, and I didn't exactly live in the posh area of town.
- It's only usually expensive if you want a lot of space. Some people don't care as much about space. I rented a 1 bedroom flat for less than £600 per month. Easy to keep clean as a single guy, the whole vacuuming job was like 15 minutes. Now I have a whole house, mortgage is much more, heating cost is higher (even before energy cost rise), land tax is higher, and I've started hiring a cleaner as a lot of our time was taken up by keeping the place looking halfway decent. If you're a more extroverted person, you probably don't care as much about where you live, so smaller and closer is better for you.
- Community, some people like living near a lot of other people.
- Jobs, especially if commuting to the job by car is impractical (e.g. centre of London, there are some ridiculously good paying jobs there, but you would never drive there because parking would cost half your salary)
I think this being an engineering forum means there is a strong tendency to introversion, as that just seems to come with engineers as a package deal. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with living in suburbia per se, the problem is many of these suburban areas are not sustainable in the longer term when they consist solely of housing sprawl and big-box-megamarts served by Walmarts and Home Depots with huge surface car parks -- and it's better to address that now than face huge problems later.
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- The risk of being mugged or harassed is really not that significant (at least for me, being a 6 foot tall white guy). It never happened to me, and I didn't exactly live in the posh area of town.
Realize that this is highly location dependent. A friend of mine grew up in Chicago and has been robbed at gunpoint twice. Seattle where I work is much safer but still not great, I have been hassled by vagrants on many occasions, some of them can be really aggressive and I've seen people openly smoking crack out of a glass pipe multiple times and this is all in broad daylight. A couple years ago there were three fatal shootings within a block of my office and it's in a relatively nice part of town. There are boarded up windows all over the place with some businesses being hit 5-6 times a year. Crime has increased dramatically over the past 2 years.
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- The risk of being mugged or harassed is really not that significant (at least for me, being a 6 foot tall white guy). It never happened to me, and I didn't exactly live in the posh area of town.
Realize that this is highly location dependent. A friend of mine grew up in Chicago and has been robbed at gunpoint twice. Seattle where I work is much safer but still not great, I have been hassled by vagrants on many occasions, some of them can be really aggressive and I've seen people openly smoking crack out of a glass pipe multiple times and this is all in broad daylight. A couple years ago there were three fatal shootings within a block of my office and it's in a relatively nice part of town. There are boarded up windows all over the place with some businesses being hit 5-6 times a year. Crime has increased dramatically over the past 2 years.
A lot of those problems are very American in nature. You have a significant issue with opioid addiction (because of historical overprescription) and there is a very limited social safety net. In the US, if you "fall off the horse" so to speak, and you don't have family or a support network, you will probably end up homeless. Especially if you can't pay for the drugs you need to stay clean, or something like schizophrenia drugs. That is still a risk in the UK, but a lower one. Most of the homeless people in the UK are there because of serious mental illness rather than something treatable or manageable.
Longer term countries will have to realise that if you want to avoid the issues like this you need to fund proper social services because the rot from these people causing damage and economic depression is far greater than fixing the problem. I seem to recall in Finland they worked out that giving everyone homeless an apartment was cheaper than having the police, courts, hospitals deal with the consequences of homelessness. But it is not an easy problem to solve, and I don't think there is an easy answer that doesn't involve spending billions of dollars. Hardly politically popular.
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Longer term countries will have to realise that if you want to avoid the issues like this you need to fund proper social services because the rot from these people causing damage and economic depression is far greater than fixing the problem. I seem to recall in Finland they worked out that giving everyone homeless an apartment was cheaper than having the police, courts, hospitals deal with the consequences of homelessness. But it is not an easy problem to solve, and I don't think there is an easy answer that doesn't involve spending billions of dollars. Hardly politically popular.
Far too many people think you can fix it by simply throwing money at the problem. Give them free housing, hand them money, leave them alone and enable them to live in squalor, let criminals out of jail, even violent ones. It doesn't work, I see no compassion in enabling toxic behavior by just allowing vagrants to live on the streets and get high, making a living by stealing whatever they please from those around them.
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just allowing vagrants to live on the streets and get high, making a living by stealing whatever they please from those around them
How do you stop them?
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just allowing vagrants to live on the streets and get high, making a living by stealing whatever they please from those around them
How do you stop them?
Certainly not by putting them back in jail. And it shouldn't be forgotten that keeping someone in jail costs between $30,000 and $60,000 per year depending on the state - then you have the costs of the police, the courts, state-provided lawyer, and any healthcare. It's not a solution to arrest and release. Nor is there an option to ignore. You need a better intervention.
A lot of the issues I think with homelessness come from assuming these people want the life they are in. Maybe a small percentage do, but the vast majority are just ill, and with the right care and compassion they could be much better off, and that would be an ultimate benefit to society. You can't fix everyone, but you can fix the vast majority and that would be a huge improvement from the current state of things.
It's no coincidence that the countries with better social safety nets, such as the Nordic countries, have lower rates of criminality and homelessness.
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How do you stop them?
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The same way you stop anyone from doing something illegal, arrest them and jail them, if they're suffering from addiction then force them into treatment. There's no point in having a law against something if you're not going to enforce it.
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just allowing vagrants to live on the streets and get high, making a living by stealing whatever they please from those around them
How do you stop them?
One word; Jail. Then rehabilitation but if they continue to commit crimes, then jail again but for an increasing amount of time. Eventually they either drop their drug habits and the associated crimes, or they go to jail for a very long time. Yes, jail time is expense for the taxpayers but far cheaper then the thefts, robberies, assaults and MURDERS and the many other problems that the druggies and the drug dealers commit.
Hell, I will bet that right now, the US spends far more per vagrant on social services, health services, police service, public housing, shelters, soup kitchens, etc etc than it would cost to keep each one of them in jail! The difference is that the STATE pays for ALL of their care while they are in jail and we know down to the penny what that costs, verses the fact that ALL of us including the citizens, robbery victims, businesses, insurance companies, the city governments, the county governments, the state governments, the US government, the churches, etc etc all all paying for the vagrants while they're out running free.
Have you ever talked to someone that has had the catalytic converter stolen from their car and asked them how much that cost them? Anywhere from $2,000 to nearly $10,000! That is just the repair costs and doesn't include their lost wages, rental car expenses or anything else. That is the costs for one single type crime! And just that single type crime is committed tens of thousands of time PER YEAR in the US city (population about 1 1/2 M) that I live in.
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A lot of the issues I think with homelessness come from assuming these people want the life they are in. Maybe a small percentage do, but the vast majority are just ill, and with the right care and compassion they could be much better off, and that would be an ultimate benefit to society.
I can see that you've never talked to many homeless people! I have. And if you ask many of them will tell you flat out that they live that way by choice. They prefer not to have a 9 to 5 job, or the headaches of renting or owning a home or other obligations. And to tell the truth, the safety net in the US is SO GOOD that they are able to live freely on the margins of conventional society. Sure, there are some people that have fallen on hard times and lost their homes, but how many people can you point to and honestly tell me that they would not have somewhere to go if that happened to them? I mean NO friends, NO family, NO church, NO public shelter or anywhere else.
"Homelessness" (choke, choke) becomes an ever increasing lifestyle-choice as societies become wealthier and people with money are more and more generous and are willing to give it to others; many of which would rather live on handouts than work for a living.
The US isn't India or Africa where you DO see really poor and completely homeless people and where there ARE people starving to death in the streets! People can and do live quite well in the US without a home, job, mortgage, etc. Every street corner begger that I see in the US, and I see at least two dozen every day, has tattoos, decent clothes and are well fed and appear to be healthy. And many of them are sporting gold jewelry!
People in the US, the UK and Europe NEED to go to some of the POOR countries in Asia, Africa, India, Mexico and South America and SEE what real poverty, homelessness, disease and starvation really looks like!
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And then there are lots of uninhabited islands. Drop them off with all the tools they need to survive or kill themselves off, whichever comes first. :-+
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And then there are lots of uninhabited islands. Drop them off with all the tools they need to survive or kill themselves off, whichever comes first. :-+
Alcatraz, or are there not enough hungry sharks between it and the mainland ?
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One word; Jail. Then rehabilitation but if they continue to commit crimes, then jail again but for an increasing amount of time. Eventually they either drop their drug habits and the associated crimes, or they go to jail for a very long time. Yes, jail time is expense for the taxpayers but far cheaper then the thefts, robberies, assaults and MURDERS and the many other problems that the druggies and the drug dealers commit.
Is it? The average vagrant in, say, Philly, spends so much time stoned or drunk out of their mind that they can't do any more damage than just existing. The cost of processing and jailing hundreds of thousands of people is utterly impractical, at a minimum of $30,000 per year. And, don't forget the US already has the largest incarcerated population of any developed nation. About 1% of all citizens are in jail. How is that working out for decriminalising society?
I've no problem with convicting actual criminals, but it's definitely not going to solve the problem with mass homelessness.
I can see that you've never talked to many homeless people! I have. And if you ask many of them will tell you flat out that they live that way by choice. They prefer not to have a 9 to 5 job, or the headaches of renting or owning a home or other obligations. And to tell the truth, the safety net in the US is SO GOOD that they are able to live freely on the margins of conventional society. Sure, there are some people that have fallen on hard times and lost their homes, but how many people can you point to and honestly tell me that they would not have somewhere to go if that happened to them? I mean NO friends, NO family, NO church, NO public shelter or anywhere else.
"Homelessness" (choke, choke) becomes an ever increasing lifestyle-choice as societies become wealthier and people with money are more and more generous and are willing to give it to others; many of which would rather live on handouts than work for a living.
I have also spoken to and met many people who have been homeless, and have managed to get back on their feet. The social net in the UK is pretty poor. I don't have direct experience with the US, but I doubt it is much better. None of those people have been homeless by choice. To be entirely clear, by homeless I mean the strictest definition. I do not mean a street beggar who goes home every day. I mean someone sleeping rough on the street, who would be lucky to have enough money for food the next day. Do you really think that's a lifestyle choice?
I think there's a big difference in viewpoint on this, and you're not the first to express this view.
Many Americans I have met see homelessness as a choice, but the reality is homelessness is usually as a result of a disaster in someone's life, such as divorce, being kicked out by parents, drug abuse, or major trauma.
Very very few people would genuinely choose to live on the streets in comparison to living in a warm, comfortable home, even if they are awful people at heart.
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Not far enough away. I'm looking at somewhere in the Pacific.
A terrestrial Earth bound Ceti Alpha 5.
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Have you ever talked to someone that has had the catalytic converter stolen from their car and asked them how much that cost them? Anywhere from $2,000 to nearly $10,000! That is just the repair costs and doesn't include their lost wages, rental car expenses or anything else. That is the costs for one single type crime! And just that single type crime is committed tens of thousands of time PER YEAR in the US city (population about 1 1/2 M) that I live in.
My observation is nearly all the people who steal catalytic converters have homes, cars, and some heavy tools. In other words, you picked a crime that requires resources the actual homeless don't have handy, as a rule. It happens more in the urban areas simply because that's where the supply is densely packed and not garaged so you can pick out the Priuses and other high-value targets.
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It's no coincidence that the countries with better social safety nets, such as the Nordic countries, have lower rates of criminality and homelessness.
Maybe it's just too cold there to be homeless :)
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A good solution for those scumbags is air ride suspension...with a remote control.
Trap them (or whatever your flavour) under the vehicle for the cops. :-DD
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The difference is that the STATE pays for ALL of their care while they are in jail
I wonder where the state gets its funds from.
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This is a graph of incarceration per US state, compared to the countries of the world: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/global/2021.html (https://www.prisonpolicy.org/global/2021.html)
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One word; Jail. Then rehabilitation but if they continue to commit crimes, then jail again but for an increasing amount of time. Eventually they either drop their drug habits and the associated crimes, or they go to jail for a very long time. Yes, jail time is expense for the taxpayers but far cheaper then the thefts, robberies, assaults and MURDERS and the many other problems that the druggies and the drug dealers commit.
Is it? The average vagrant in, say, Philly, spends so much time stoned or drunk out of their mind that they can't do any more damage than just existing.
The second law of thermodynamics ensures that it's far easier for them to cause damage than it is for citizens to restore afterwards.
The cost of processing and jailing hundreds of thousands of people is utterly impractical, at a minimum of $30,000 per year.
200K * $30K/yr is only $6B/year. That's only a little more than Section 40103 of last year's federal budget and is less than Section 40105 ("community restoration and revitalization", which seems like it would apply here).
And, don't forget the US already has the largest incarcerated population of any developed nation. About 1% of all citizens are in jail. How is that working out for decriminalising society?
I've no problem with convicting actual criminals, but it's definitely not going to solve the problem with mass homelessness.
As long as we define "actual criminals" as something close to "people who have committed crimes", then I think we agree strongly on the first part. I want no part of a state apparatus that forces peaceful, law-abiding homeless to do anything they don't want to do. I do want a state apparatus to protect peaceful, law-abiding citizens against the actions of people who have demonstrated the actions of breaking one or more of society's laws. (That's the exact moment when they transitioned from homeless to "actual criminal".)
Edit to add: as a non-drug user myself, we should repeal all of our drug laws lower than major-trafficking and release all offenders whose only offense was a non-violent/no threat of violence, non-major-trafficking. That is a substantial driver of our incarceration rates and is, IMO, unconscionable, but largely unrelated to the homelessness issue.
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The difference is that the STATE pays for ALL of their care while they are in jail
I wonder where the state gets its funds from.
Really? Is that a trick question? :)
My point was that we know exactly what it costs to keep someone in person but I'm betting that all of the hidden costs to society from NOT keeping them in prison is much, much greater and are paid in many, many incalculable ways.
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The difference is that the STATE pays for ALL of their care while they are in jail
I wonder where the state gets its funds from.
In the case of the federal government, it borrows them with a loose promise to have taxpayers pay them back eventually.
In the case of individual states, there is, as required, a much tighter linkage between the borrowing and taxation.
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My point was that we know exactly what it costs to keep someone in person but I'm betting that all of the hidden costs to society from NOT keeping them in prison is much, much greater and are paid in many, many incalculable ways.
As other countries have discovered, there are not just two things you can do: nothing or prison. You can actually work with people and try to make them better. Better healthcare (freely accessible to all), a social safety net so if they lose their job they're not homeless in a few months, proper programs to deal with drug abuse, and even housing them.
Those are cheaper than putting people in prison. It's very much something that should be reserved for the worst in society, not used as a first line of defence. I'd say we're probably too soft in the UK on repeated criminality, but insufficient at intervening for first-timers.
It requires spending money, but if you actually can fix these people and they go back into the workforce, that's a huge benefit to society as they pay taxes now.
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It requires spending money, but if you actually can fix these people and they go back into the workforce, that's a huge benefit to society as they pay taxes now.
In a country where about 57% of households pay no federal income tax (up from 44% before the pandemic), that is not quite as torrential a river of financial power to be tapped into as it would logically seem.
Yes, they'll pay some additional sales taxes and some may pay state income taxes.
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[...] I'm frequently moving heavy stuff around, equipment, materials, even groceries that are impractical to carry, a car is mandatory. Can't get on a bus with a model airplane to go to a flying field, can't take firearms on the bus, can't take a stack of 2x4's.
Last time I rode a bus was about 7 years ago, good riddance. I walked to the auto-parts store to buy a new truck battery. Then I carried it to the nearest bus stop and waited about 25min for a bus. He told me I couldn't bring my battery on the bus. Then I had stuff my battery in my backpack and wait 30 more min for the next bus.
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Last time I rode a bus was about 7 years ago, good riddance. I walked to the auto-parts store to buy a new truck battery. Then I carried it to the nearest bus stop and waited about 25min for a bus. He told me I couldn't bring my battery on the bus. Then I had stuff my battery in my backpack and wait 30 more min for the next bus.
Pre-pandemic at least the bus worked pretty well for one specific use case, commuting from the suburbs into the city, and halfway decent for commuting from one area of the city to another although usually I found walking or Uber to be a lot more versatile for the latter case.
If you want to get from one suburban city to another good luck, here that means take a bus into downtown Seattle and take another bus out to the suburban city. Getting from one major city to another is not much better. It can take hours for a trip that would be 30 minutes by car. Many trips require transferring from one bus to another which adds additional delay and if your bus is delayed and misses the last run of the connecting bus or the connecting run is canceled you are screwed.
Since the pandemic the bus system has suffered. They are short staffed and ridership is down so routes have been reduced and specific runs are often cancelled on short notice. More than once I've gotten stuck downtown and had to find a way to kill an hour before the next bus run but I had to be careful not to miss that one since it was the last run for the day. They have an app for finding routes and tracking buses but it is absolutely terrible, it's difficult to navigate and there are frequently phantom buses that show they are on time on the app but then they simply never arrive.
The people planning the system seem to be idiots too. Many of them are so anti-car that they push to eliminate free parking at the park & ride lots or even eliminate the lots entirely. Sorry but if I don't happen to live near a convenient bus route and there's nowhere I can leave my car that is safe and doesn't cost a bunch of money to use then I'll just drive my car the whole way instead. If you want people to use transit instead of cars, start by offering reliable transit that meets people's needs, don't just be hostile to cars and try to make driving as inconvenient as possible. That just makes me avoid those areas entirely. Seattle is very car-hostile, nearby Bellevue on the other hand is very car friendly, the streets are wider and have turn lanes, the businesses all have ample free parking, it's cleaner with less crime, I take my business there whenever possible because it's more convenient.
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It requires spending money, but if you actually can fix these people and they go back into the workforce, that's a huge benefit to society as they pay taxes now.
Where do you get the money? Wages have been stagnant for years, cost of living is way, way up. We can't even afford to repair crumbling bridges and other infrastructure. People talk about taxing the rich but every plan anyone ever tries to implement mostly ends up taxing the middle class, what's left of it anyway. I know I'm cynical but I am very skeptical that a large majority of vagrants and junkies will ever amount to anything. These are people that have suffered for years with mental illness and addiction and lived a life of crime and begging to support themselves. It is an absolutely massive undertaking to get one of them to join the system and become a productive member of society. It's actually shocking how many turn down offers for shelter, they would rather live on the street roasted out of their mind and steal from you to support their habit than live in a shelter where they're not allowed to get high.
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It is an absolutely massive undertaking to get one of them to join the system and become a productive member of society. It's actually shocking how many turn down offers for shelter, they would rather live on the street roasted out of their mind and steal from you to support their habit than live in a shelter where they're not allowed to get high.
If that's the primary barrier, the harm minimizing move is probably to allow them to get high at the shelter.
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It is an absolutely massive undertaking to get one of them to join the system and become a productive member of society. It's actually shocking how many turn down offers for shelter, they would rather live on the street roasted out of their mind and steal from you to support their habit than live in a shelter where they're not allowed to get high.
If that's the primary barrier, the harm minimizing move is probably to allow them to get high at the shelter.
What does that solve? They're still going to steal your stuff to pay for their drugs. The best harm minimizing move is to round them up and force them into addiction treatment, unfortunately hard to do. I say give them a choice, go to treatment or go to jail. Yes jail is expensive, but it could be made cheaper, and the purpose is to protect the rest of society form people who can't or won't live within the rules.
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It is an absolutely massive undertaking to get one of them to join the system and become a productive member of society. It's actually shocking how many turn down offers for shelter, they would rather live on the street roasted out of their mind and steal from you to support their habit than live in a shelter where they're not allowed to get high.
If that's the primary barrier, the harm minimizing move is probably to allow them to get high at the shelter.
What does that solve? They're still going to steal your stuff to pay for their drugs. The best harm minimizing move is to round them up and force them into addiction treatment, unfortunately hard to do. I say give them a choice, go to treatment or go to jail. Yes jail is expensive, but it could be made cheaper, and the purpose is to protect the rest of society form people who can't or won't live within the rules.
I don't want a society to be able to say "don't be addicted to drugs at penalty of going to jail".
I'm perfectly fine with society saying "Steal stuff? Off to jail with you."
If addiction is keeping people on the streets and out of shelters, I think we should consider how we could loosen the shelter rules. If you're OK with alcohol, tobacco and coffee, but "against drugs", I'm not quite sure what to say to convince you that those are all drugs.
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If addiction is keeping people on the streets and out of shelters, I think we should consider how we could loosen the shelter rules. If you're OK with alcohol, tobacco and coffee, but "against drugs", I'm not quite sure what to say to convince you that those are all drugs.
Of course they're all drugs, but surely you can't seriously be saying they're all equivalent? I know lots of people that use caffeine, alcohol, tobacco or pot that are functional adults who can hold a job and take care of themselves. I know exactly zero people that smoke crack, meth, do heroin or other hard drugs that are functional. There is a reason that hard drugs are illegal, and if something is illegal there should be penalties for doing it. If somebody is unable to function in society because they are addicted to drugs, regardless of what drugs it is, they should be forced into treatment. If they can't function in society they are resorting to crime to support themselves. For what it's worth, I'm fine with not allowing tobacco or alcohol in shelters either, the people in shelters are being supported by the rest of us, and if I'm going to pay to support somebody I don't want to pay for their expensive indulgences. When they can earn a living and buy their own cigarettes they are more than welcome to smoke themselves to death, that's not my problem. When I'm paying for them it becomes my problem.
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I suspect you know people who fairly regularly and illegally do cocaine, meth (or very close chemical cousins to meth), and psychedelics and hold a job just fine. (You know the people; you just don't know that they do the drugs.)
Gatekeeping what someone else puts into their body isn't something that interests me. It's totally fair to say that society shouldn't hand people enough money that they can buy all the drugs they want and to decide that $X/Y time is the right amount of support we're willing to extend to people who are in a bad situation. I don't agree with dictating what they can and cannot buy with that $X to any greater extent that we dictate and practically enforce it for everyone else.
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Duh...you just print it silly.
Inflation? What's that?
Quote from: james_s on Today at 19:52:09 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=143144.msg4530068#msg4530068)
Where do you get the money? Wages have been stagnant for years, cost of living is way, way up. We can't even afford to repair crumbling bridges and other infrastructure.
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I suspect you know people who fairly regularly and illegally do cocaine, meth (or very close chemical cousins to meth), and psychedelics and hold a job just fine. (You know the people; you just don't know that they do the drugs.)
Gatekeeping what someone else puts into their body isn't something that interests me. It's totally fair to say that society shouldn't hand people enough money that they can buy all the drugs they want and to decide that $X/Y time is the right amount of support we're willing to extend to people who are in a bad situation. I don't agree with dictating what they can and cannot buy with that $X to any greater extent that we dictate and practically enforce it for everyone else.
I don't care what they put in their body if they pay for it, but if it's illegal and they are found in possession of it they should go to jail. I care what they spend my money on. If you're getting a handout, it should come with strings attached as to what it can be spent on. If I say the money I pay to support somebody can't be spent on apple juice then they better not be spending it on apple juice.
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That's a self-consistent and reasonable point of view to hold.
I hold a different one: that people are better judges of what to spend money on and restrictions are generally economically inefficient.
(It's the same reason that you'd rather have $100 in cash than a $100 gift card to some store.)
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I suspect you know people who fairly regularly and illegally do cocaine, meth (or very close chemical cousins to meth), and psychedelics and hold a job just fine. (You know the people; you just don't know that they do the drugs.)
I was surprised to hear on a Louis Rossmann live stream recently that he used to do drugs. I think it was cocaine?
I believe he's off them now.
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I was surprised to hear on a Louis Rossmann live stream recently that he used to do drugs. I think it was cocaine?
I believe he's off them now.
Cocaine is probably one of the few possible exceptions to the hard drugs that some people use occasionally and remain functional, or use for a while when they're young and then stop. I've never tried it but I don't think it is anywhere near as addictive as opiates, nor as destructive to the body as methamphetamine.
Whatever the case, by the time someone is so deep into the downward spiral that they're homeless and smoking crack or shooting heroin on the street they are WELL past the point of casual use, and guaranteed they are resorting to crime to finance their habit. When people are stealing catalytic converters that cost $2500 to replace or yanking copper wiring out of street lights to get a few dollars in scrap to buy drugs the cumulative cost to society is enormous.
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]If that's the primary barrier, the harm minimizing move is probably to allow them to get high at the shelter.
That's about the same as the move to give them free syringes and needles. How did that turn out? It looks to me like we now have more junkies than ever!
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If you're OK with alcohol, tobacco and coffee, but "against drugs", I'm not quite sure what to say to convince you that those are all drugs.
Well if you can't see the difference between coffee users and cocaine users than there's something seriously wrong with you!
Regarding the other two, I'm against their use as well and I fully agree that their use is destructive to huge numbers of people. But that said, neither of them are as addictive, or cause the amount of physical or mental damage to individuals, or cause as much murders, deaths or other crimes as cocaine, fentanyl and a huge number of illegal drugs.
You can't lump alcohol or tobacco in with fentanyl and the likes and you certainly can't compare coffee to any of them! By your reasoning I could call table salt "a drug" and use that as justification for unrestricted use of any drug in the world.
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You can't lump alcohol or tobacco in with fentanyl and the likes and you certainly can't compare coffee to any of them!
Indeed, in the US at least Alcohol and tobacco account for far more deaths than fentanyl or any/all opaites. Coffee - I'm not even sure one can get statistics on coffee-related harms (caffeine has caused deaths but very few and always related to "supplement" intake).
And whilst tobacco harms directly, alcohol has many indirect harms as well - domestic abuse, drink-driving deaths, violence. I think the point sokoloff was trying to make was - if we're talking specifically about the harms of certain drugs, as well as the cost to society (in both lives and money), then Alcohol and tobacco are at the top - by a long way in almost every measure. Yet often people gloss over that and readily demonise drugs that, for an individual can do more harm, but on large scales are far less damaging.
By your reasoning I could call table salt "a drug" and use that as justification for unrestricted use of any drug in the world.
I don't understand what this means. Caffeine in coffee is a drug, and has clear physiological and psychological effects, salt doesn't really affect psychology, and is a basic requirement for mammals.
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It's likely a more useful approach would be to consider the reasons people turn to mind altering products in the first place, and do something about that, but it won't happen, because it would be less profitable.
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That's about the same as the move to give them free syringes and needles. How did that turn out? It looks to me like we now have more junkies than ever!
That was more to prevent the spread of HIV, which has huge health impacts, and doesn't just stay in the junkie population.
I do wonder if there will be less of it in the future as better treatments for HIV become available. There seems to be a belief that there will be a properly effective vaccine or post viral treatment within 10 years.
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And whilst tobacco harms directly, alcohol has many indirect harms as well - domestic abuse, drink-driving deaths, violence. I think the point sokoloff was trying to make was - if we're talking specifically about the harms of certain drugs, as well as the cost to society (in both lives and money), then Alcohol and tobacco are at the top - by a long way in almost every measure. Yet often people gloss over that and readily demonise drugs that, for an individual can do more harm, but on large scales are far less damaging.
The health insurance I get through work charges a huge extra fee for smokers. By doing so, the nonsmokers got at least 2 years (so far) of no premium increases. The extra fee for smokers has increased substantially going into the second year since the implementation, I don't see that being a sustainable source of revenue so maybe they'll target excessive alcohol consumption or obesity next.
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As someone who is overweight (not nearly “people of Walmart” level, but definitely 30 pounds heavier than I should be), I think I should pay more for health insurance than someone at a healthy weight.
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LOL! For once we agree! :D I was overweight too but I dumped about 40 pounds. Technically I'm probably still overweight I'm happy where I am.
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I also agree with extra charges for obesity even though I'm overweight, it would make for a big push towards more healthy living options. The problem is how to determine if someone is overweight or not, since BMI is a flawed metric. There should also be a way for those losing weight/getting more fit to avoid the charge.
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So true. I never gained excess weight until I went into engineering and ended up sitting at a desk for 10+ hours a day and working 5 and 6 days per week and never having time to exercise or even take care of lawn care, car repairs and other activities that would have given me some level of physical activity. Engineering is very unhealthy life style IMO and I'm sure that there are a lot of others here that would agree. After I retired, I took up my outside activities again and started eating less quick-meal junk food and lost about 40 pounds. Unfortunately I saw a lot of people in the engineering company that I used to work for that never got that chance. A lot of them died from problems related to being over weight, and of stress, before they could retire. Very, very few of the people that I used to work with are still alive and now I feel like I'm some kind of survivor!
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I also agree with extra charges for obesity even though I'm overweight, it would make for a big push towards more healthy living options.
We are still living in politicall correctness era, so forget about it >:D
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So true. I never gained excess weight until I went into engineering and ended up sitting at a desk for 10+ hours a day and working 5 and 6 days per week and never having time to exercise or even take care of lawn care, car repairs and other activities that would have given me some level of physical activity. Engineering is very unhealthy life style IMO and I'm sure that there are a lot of others here that would agree. After I retired, I took up my outside activities again and started eating less quick-meal junk food and lost about 40 pounds. Unfortunately I saw a lot of people in the engineering company that I used to work for that never got that chance. A lot of them died from problems related to being over weight, and of stress, before they could retire. Very, very few of the people that I used to work with are still alive and now I feel like I'm some kind of survivor!
It's a lot better nowadays. Sit/stand desks are becoming quite popular and quite a few companies are encouraging use of the stairs instead of the elevator. Sites that have their own dining are providing more healthy options.
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It's a lot better nowadays. Sit/stand desks are becoming quite popular and quite a few companies are encouraging use of the stairs instead of the elevator. Sites that have their own dining are providing more healthy options.
Using stairs is definitely good for you, but I've read that those sit/stand desks don't actually do anything for your health. You really need to get aerobic activity which standing still isn't. It might have some benefit for your posture but you're not going to lose weight by standing at your desk.
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Using stairs is definitely good for you, but I've read that those sit/stand desks don't actually do anything for your health. You really need to get aerobic activity which standing still isn't. It might have some benefit for your posture but you're not going to lose weight by standing at your desk.
I read that a workflow that regularly alternates between sitting and standing is better than either sitting or standing most of the time.
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Using stairs is definitely good for you, but I've read that those sit/stand desks don't actually do anything for your health. You really need to get aerobic activity which standing still isn't. It might have some benefit for your posture but you're not going to lose weight by standing at your desk.
I read that a workflow that regularly alternates between sitting and standing is better than either sitting or standing most of the time.
I can attest that sitting/standing is beneficial in part, at least for me. I use these desks at the workplace and it is much better for the overall well being to stand for at least an hour or two. During lockdowns I worked at home and therefore sitting throughout the day - I felt much worse at the end of the day (not to consider the occasional back pain).
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I find it disturbing that this thread is still here after so many years and nothing is still certain for Fran and the living arrangements. I didn't realize Fran moved again last year until I had a good look back some weeks ago. I hope things will materialize one day.
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Nothing is ever certain. ::)
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Nothing is ever certain. ::)
I think it's pretty close to certain that the process of Fran scrambling to avert a living situation crisis will occur again.
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Nothing is ever certain. ::)
I think it's pretty close to certain that the process of Fran scrambling to avert a living situation crisis will occur again.
IIRC she has already mentioned this and expects it to last into early 2023 at best.
I really hope she does something pro-active to prevent it, anything really.
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Untrue.
Entropy is a certain.
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I really hope she does something pro-active to prevent it, anything really.
I wonder if she realizes she's torturing herself, by instead of dealing with this source of great stress decisively, postponing dealing with it with knowingly temporary "solutions".
This is not just procrastination; this is a vicious cycle, and can lead to serious mental harm. I did it to myself, and still pay the price.
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I really hope she does something pro-active to prevent it, anything really.
I wonder if she realizes she's torturing herself, by instead of dealing with this source of great stress decisively, postponing dealing with it with knowingly temporary "solutions".
It's easiest to make no changes when things continue to work as they have.
It's would probably require a 50% or more drop in Patreon funding and drying up of the Youtube ad revenue at the same to elicit drastic changes.
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It's easiest to make no changes when things continue to work as they have.
It's would probably require a 50% or more drop in Patreon funding and drying up of the Youtube ad revenue at the same to elicit drastic changes.
This Fran situation, seems to partly remind me of a (at least once) popular, multimeter (and other things) testing/review Youtube channel, from South Africa , which eventually disappeared (or was planning/seeming to). Called mjlorton.
https://www.youtube.com/@mjlorton (https://www.youtube.com/@mjlorton)
Talks about Youtube Fatigue:
https://youtu.be/8DgoMLwZc9A?t=1216 (https://youtu.be/8DgoMLwZc9A?t=1216)
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It's easiest to make no changes when things continue to work as they have.
It's would probably require a 50% or more drop in Patreon funding and drying up of the Youtube ad revenue at the same to elicit drastic changes.
While Fran's choices may not be the ones that I would make, I think it's fair to observe that 60+% of Americans (and probably many other developed nations as well) are living pretty economically precarious lives, tending to live a lifestyle that spends nearly all of their income.
US savings rate over time has tended to range in the 4-8% area for most of my adult life: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT
Personally, if I was only saving 8% of my income, I'd feel that was catastrophically too low to provide for a financially secure future, but that or lower is the reality for a great many Americans and I can't find specific, grave fault in Fran's decision to live her life in a manner fairly consistent with lots of other Americans.
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This Fran situation, seems to partly remind me of a (at least once) popular, multimeter (and other things) testing/review Youtube channel, from South Africa , which eventually disappeared (or was planning/seeming to). Called mjlorton.
Well... except Martin doesn't seem to have a problem to relocate thousands of km away from his previous place(s).
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It's easiest to make no changes when things continue to work as they have.
It's would probably require a 50% or more drop in Patreon funding and drying up of the Youtube ad revenue at the same to elicit drastic changes.
While Fran's choices may not be the ones that I would make, I think it's fair to observe that 60+% of Americans (and probably many other developed nations as well) are living pretty economically precarious lives, tending to live a lifestyle that spends nearly all of their income.
US savings rate over time has tended to range in the 4-8% area for most of my adult life: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT
All too true. Most people in the US feel pressured to 'keep up with the Jones' and constantly over spend on houses, cars, vacations, fancy toys (motorcycles, boats, ski mobiles, the fanciest refrigerator, the BIG screen television etc) and most spend all of their disposable income instead of saving any money. Then if anything happens such as an illness, being laid off, a large home repair, or a large car repair they have to finance it with a credit cards and the interest on that puts them behind the curve where their outgo constantly exceeds their income and they go deeper and deeper into debt and they never catch up. The solution is really simple, control your spending! Don't buy the biggest house on the block and in neighborhoods where you can't afford to live, don't buy a new car every two years, don't take those multi thousand dollar vacations to Disney World every year and stop using credit as a means to meet routine living expenses. Start saving some money instead of spending every dollar that comes your way.
My wife and I fight about this constantly, I still live in the same house that I bought 39 years ago and I drive a 13 year old truck . My wife has been badgering me for YEARS to buy buy a newer house in fancy subdivision and a newer vehicle and to take one of the expensive European cruises but I simply refuse to.
Some of my wife's family are always complaining about not having any money but the entire family manages to go to Disney World (in Florida) for a week or more every year every summer and to go to Arizona so visit their grand kid at least twice a year. I should add that they live in Washington state which in the opposite corner of the continental US from Florida.
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While Fran's choices may not be the ones that I would make, I think it's fair to observe that 60+% of Americans (and probably many other developed nations as well) are living pretty economically precarious lives, tending to live a lifestyle that spends nearly all of their income.
US savings rate over time has tended to range in the 4-8% area for most of my adult life: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT
Personally, if I was only saving 8% of my income, I'd feel that was catastrophically too low to provide for a financially secure future, but that or lower is the reality for a great many Americans and I can't find specific, grave fault in Fran's decision to live her life in a manner fairly consistent with lots of other Americans.
Fran is relying almost entirely on people giving her money ostensibly to produce new and interesting content, and in the process she is airing the dirty laundry in a very public way. Her income is plentiful, as far as I can tell she is taking in much more than I do, but she is pissing it away on rent in a totally unsustainable situation. I can't help but watch it unfold and think how I could have invested the same income into obtaining a much better and more sustainable living situation. Her problem is not insufficient income, it's poor and shortsighted use of that income through extreme stubbornness.
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My wife and I fight about this constantly, I still live in the same house that I bought 39 years ago and I drive a 13 year old truck . My wife has been badgering me for YEARS to buy buy a newer house in fancy subdivision and a newer vehicle and to take one of the expensive European cruises but I simply refuse to.
LOL 13 year old truck sounds so new and modern to me, my daily driver is now 32 years old, I think the newest vehicle I've ever owned was the 1987 I bought back in 2000. Why replace a perfectly good vehicle if you can keep it going? The only reason I've ever replaced a car is it got totaled in an accident, otherwise I can keep a car going indefinitely.
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[...]
My wife and I fight about this constantly, I still live in the same house that I bought 39 years ago and I drive a 13 year old truck . My wife has been badgering me for YEARS to buy buy a newer house in fancy subdivision and a newer vehicle and to take one of the expensive European cruises but I simply refuse to.
I'm not saying you should blow all your money but it's nice to have some lifestyle progression throughout the years. You're career probably progressed over those 39 years, why can't your lifestyle?
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I'm not saying you should blow all your money but it's nice to have some lifestyle progression throughout the years. You're career probably progressed over those 39 years, why can't your lifestyle?
Maybe it has? Personally I think the financial independence of having no debt is the best lifestyle progression one could hope for. My income could increase by an order of magnitude and I'd keep driving the same car and living in the same house.
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Having a complete aversion to debt I think is foolish, you have to use it creatively and be careful not to go too far.
Debt is eroded by inflation, so if you can borrow money at below the inflationary rate and save it in a general savings account or put it in money markets then that can be more beneficial than paying off something immediately.
For instance, I have about £4,000 on a credit card, which I used for some larger expenses a while ago. It's interest free for a promotional period, which is a common arrangement in the UK and elsewhere. I could easily clear it tomorrow, but I would need to take money out of savings, which is earning me money. Meanwhile, the debt has no interest on it, and only a fixed fee of 1% for 24 months of this. If I can beat ~0.5% a year then I shouldn't pay this debt off. That's pretty easy right now, but even before the base interest rates increased on current accounts you could typically earn a decent amount on the stock market, in the long run.
Of course, the card provider is betting on you failing to pay the card off, and incurring higher interest payments. But you can beat that by ensuring the monthly payment amount over the promotional time will clear the card. You also need discipline.
Buying things in cash also usually offers no payment protection; if I buy a holiday with my CC and pay it off in full next month, I'm covered even if the tour operator goes bust.
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I buy almost everything with my credit card for that exact reason, and I pay it off in full each month. Actually I usually round up and keep a small positive balance on it just because it amuses me to see those angry red numbers on the statement.
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[...]
My wife and I fight about this constantly, I still live in the same house that I bought 39 years ago and I drive a 13 year old truck . My wife has been badgering me for YEARS to buy buy a newer house in fancy subdivision and a newer vehicle and to take one of the expensive European cruises but I simply refuse to.
I'm not saying you should blow all your money but it's nice to have some lifestyle progression throughout the years. You're career probably progressed over those 39 years, why can't your lifestyle?
Maybe it has? Personally I think the financial independence of having no debt is the best lifestyle progression one could hope for. My income could increase by an order of magnitude and I'd keep driving the same car and living in the same house.
Sounds like his wife disagrees and as such, he has been badgered for years and is 'fighting constantly'. I wouldn't call that an ideal lifestyle for either of them.
During inflationary times, using debt to buy assets can be a good move. I took debt at about 3% to buy a house. While I paid that down, my house value went up about 20% / year for 5 years. That was partly due to inflation and partly due to lots of work we put into home renos. Had I not taken that debt, I wouldn't have had the opportunity to ride the inflation wave or to do fun home reno work and get paid well for it. I probably would have had to move away due to increasing rent costs, I would have been more stressed about cost of living going up faster than my wage, more stressed when I got laid off and less able to keep being productive while I job hunted.
If you have debt or own assets, inflation can be good. If you don't, it sucks. The policy makers generally fit into the prior category so they are incentivized to push for inflation and as such, I think it's reasonable to assume inflation will continue.
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Sounds like his wife disagrees and as such, he has been badgered for years and is 'fighting constantly'. I wouldn't call that an ideal lifestyle for either of them.
To me that sounds like a fundamental incompatibility and a relationship I would not wish to continue, but that's only something each individual can determine for themselves. If I had a wife that was badgering me to buy a different house or a replace my car I would replace the wife instead with one that is frugal like I am but that's just me.
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To me that sounds like a fundamental incompatibility and a relationship I would not wish to continue, but that's only something each individual can determine for themselves. If I had a wife that was badgering me to buy a different house or a replace my car I would replace the wife instead with one that is frugal like I am but that's just me.
Divorce is notoriously un-frugal in its own right.
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To me that sounds like a fundamental incompatibility and a relationship I would not wish to continue, but that's only something each individual can determine for themselves. If I had a wife that was badgering me to buy a different house or a replace my car I would replace the wife instead with one that is frugal like I am but that's just me.
Divorce is notoriously un-frugal in its own right.
Darn right! Been there done that and it ultimately cost me me my job and my house. (first wife and first house).
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Might be cheaper to buy a nicer house now, instead of ending up with half a house later.
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To me that sounds like a fundamental incompatibility and a relationship I would not wish to continue, but that's only something each individual can determine for themselves. If I had a wife that was badgering me to buy a different house or a replace my car I would replace the wife instead with one that is frugal like I am but that's just me.
Divorce is notoriously un-frugal in its own right.
That's why I never got legally married in the first place. It's a huge financial risk, for very little reward. It serves very little purpose in modern society.
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Might be cheaper to buy a nicer house now, instead of ending up with half a house later.
That's starting to sound like extortion, no thanks!
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Might be cheaper to buy a nicer house now, instead of ending up with half a house later.
That's starting to sound like extortion, no thanks!
Haha, it does kind of sound like that, but I prefer it to sound like 'team work makes the dream work'.
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Houses are not necessarily going to be more expensive, actually there are signs of the real estate market collapsing a bit in a lot of western countries right now. But loans are going to be much more difficult to get. And property taxes are very likely to raise significantly too, thus making ownership a lot more expensive even if your house is fully paid.
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Canada national home price index is down 15% from the peak. Some recent forecasts are for the decline to continue until mid or end of 2023 when interest rates start decreasing. Canada seems to have one of the largest housing bubbles in the world so we are overdue for a 'correction'. My long term guess is house prices will increase for a while after next years bottom. Builders have started postponing projects which should reduce the supply and the feds are cranking up immigration to bolster the demand. The Canadian housing ponzi scheme: as long as we keep accepting immigrants faster than we build houses, we'll be 'fine'.
[attachimg=1]
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Haha, it does kind of sound like that, but I prefer it to sound like 'team work makes the dream work'.
I just accept that I'm not cut out for marriage. I've lived with a couple of girlfriends, one for nearly a decade, in the end I'm SO glad I never got married. Now I have a girlfriend who has her own house just a couple miles away from mine and it's great, I have my space, she has hers, if the shit really hit the fan we could combine households and rent one of them out but I'd really rather not. I don't tell her what to spend her money on and she gives me the same courtesy.
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Houses are not necessarily going to be more expensive, actually there are signs of the real estate market collapsing a bit in a lot of western countries right now. But loans are going to be much more difficult to get. And property taxes are very likely to raise significantly too, thus making ownership a lot more expensive even if your house is fully paid.
What we had, was IMO a bubble, and actually I think we still have a bubble and I expect prices to keep dropping for a while. Due to inflation they will never drop to what they were say 10 years ago but I do think we are past the massive rises. On the other hand, the population is still unfortunately growing exponentially.
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I'm not sure, if the following video, explains some of the feelings, behind, people like Frans, situation. It seems to show how some people have rented places to live in Philly, for a very long time, and are very disappointed, that they are apparently being forced to leave.
Because they like it there, feel very safe there, and just want to keep paying rent, and stay there, and not have to move, to somewhere else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0sil_6Tyqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0sil_6Tyqw)
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Haha, it does kind of sound like that, but I prefer it to sound like 'team work makes the dream work'.
I just accept that I'm not cut out for marriage. I've lived with a couple of girlfriends, one for nearly a decade, in the end I'm SO glad I never got married. Now I have a girlfriend who has her own house just a couple miles away from mine and it's great, I have my space, she has hers, if the shit really hit the fan we could combine households and rent one of them out but I'd really rather not. I don't tell her what to spend her money on and she gives me the same courtesy.
My wife and I earn similar salaries and don't tell each other how to spend it aside from what we put into our house. Sometimes I have to compromise but the frustration subsides when I remember how much less I could afford without her.
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My wife and I earn similar salaries and don't tell each other how to spend it aside from what we put into our house. Sometimes I have to compromise but the frustration subsides when I remember how much less I could afford without her.
One of my top tips to wealth would be to find a partner. Two incomes is actually way better than just double the income.
Say you both earn $50k/year and expense are:
$20k/year residence
$15k/year misc.
On your own you only bank $15k/year.
With a partner you share the residence and expenses (maybe slightly higher), so you pocket say $60k/year. That's a x4 improvement over being single. x2 improvement individually.
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I'm not sure, if the following video, explains some of the feelings, behind, people like Frans, situation. It seems to show how some people have rented places to live in Philly, for a very long time, and are very disappointed, that they are apparently being forced to leave.
Because they like it there, feel very safe there, and just want to keep paying rent, and stay there, and not have to move, to somewhere else.
That's the problem with livng in a major city, at least in the inner-city areas. Big business will always win and you can't stop the change.
Even where I live in the suburbs, Baulkham Hills was rolling green hills and orange orchards just 30 years ago, my wife remembers it as she grew up here only a few streets away from our house now. Now they are building apartment towers because anything within 800m of a train station is now zoned for high rise development. Small shops and business dropping like flies as they are bought out by the developers. And I've shot several videos of my riding around Nowest which is now high-rise central with a ton more to come. There is even talk of a casio going in.
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This Fran situation, seems to partly remind me of a (at least once) popular, multimeter (and other things) testing/review Youtube channel, from South Africa , which eventually disappeared (or was planning/seeming to). Called mjlorton.
Well... except Martin doesn't seem to have a problem to relocate thousands of km away from his previous place(s).
He moved to North Carolina, as did Chris Gammell. They get together a bit. Saw a photo of his new shed he's building recently on a big I think remoteish property. He's basically semi-retired though, I guess his wife must earn a lot or they have some other money. Add in Louis Rossman and that's at least 3 US based electronics Youtubers who have moved for lifestyle and/or financial reasons, actively setting themselves up for a better future.
I'd told Fran that I'd stop trying to "help" her, so I guess I have to let my frustration out here. She has told me countless times personally that I just don't get it, and that what she has is literally the only option. I have the call BS on that. And whilst she no doubt has lots of local friends in Philly, she has no family, no partner and no local job to tie her down there. It pains me every time I see a new video talking about the financial situation :(
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Her income is plentiful, as far as I can tell she is taking in much more than I do, but she is pissing it away on rent in a totally unsustainable situation.
Expeneses were $70k last year, rising to over $80k this year I believe. So yeah, income isn't the problem.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4457578/#msg4457578 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4457578/#msg4457578)
The income she has would be make her quite well off in smaller towns.
Not sure about taxes in Pennsylvania and whether that's a desirable state or not from that point of view. But Philly seems to be an expense nightmare with those 4 spaces. But no surprise for downtown in a big city.
Would be the same here in Sydney city. Go 50km out west to where I grew up and it's way way cheaper, both residential and commercial spaces.
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I think the only original plan should have been get a real paying job to feed the YouTube and hobby stuff.
Accumulating enough wealth/savings in the process.
Then if there was enough safety net go full time.
That ship I'm sorry to say has sailed along with the youth and energy necessary to do it.
I myself was successful in running my own shop repairing everything.
As I got older I found I had nothing saved and no real insurance.
Then it happened, I blew out my back. Fortunately it was at a remote sub contracted job and all was paid.
It was then I decided at age 30 something to get a real job with paid vacation and benefits and leave the worrying to someone else.
After 20 years, I had accumulated enough to buy a house.
Not a fancy house, but one of my own with no one to hold anything over me (take it away) as I paid cash.
Now in my 60's I am extremely grateful to myself for taking these steps.
I don't have to worry about living or not, or will I make it later in life without money or shelter.
That is never a good place to be in, however a person must learn to accept advice from people who are successful before it's down to food stamps and Section 8 housing. :horse:
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One of my top tips to wealth would be to find a partner. Two incomes is actually way better than just double the income.
Say you both earn $50k/year and expense are:
$20k/year residence
$15k/year misc.
On your own you only bank $15k/year.
With a partner you share the residence and expenses (maybe slightly higher), so you pocket say $60k/year. That's a x4 improvement over being single. x2 improvement individually.
Well, yeah, if you're one of the lucky ones it works out for then that's good advice, but in the US something like 50% of marriages end in divorce and 80% of divorces are initiated by women, I suspect most other Western nations are not too far off that. The statistics make it a risky proposition, it's only really sensible if you meet early in life before either of you have much in the way of assets and even that can be risky.
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Now they are building apartment towers because anything within 800m of a train station is now zoned for high rise development. Small shops and business dropping like flies as they are bought out by the developers. And I've shot several videos of my riding around Nowest which is now high-rise central with a ton more to come. There is even talk of a casio going in.
That would be my cue to get the hell out of Dodge, being surrounded by highrises is an unlivable hell to me. It's a bit stressful just thinking about it.
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I'd told Fran that I'd stop trying to "help" her, so I guess I have to let my frustration out here. She has told me countless times personally that I just don't get it, and that what she has is literally the only option. I have the call BS on that. And whilst she no doubt has lots of local friends in Philly, she has no family, no partner and no local job to tie her down there. It pains me every time I see a new video talking about the financial situation :(
I've known a couple of people like that and frankly I just had to cut them loose at some point. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, and as somebody who is a fixer by nature I simply can't handle people that insist they have no other options when I can plainly see several viable options staring them in the face. It's just pure stubbornness, people so deeply dug into their comfort zone that they'll go down with the ship instead of getting into a liferaft. Fran's housing problem is purely of her own making, and the only reason it continues to be a problem is that she chooses to continue down that path. There is no reasoning with people like that, they simply can't see things any other way.
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My wife and I earn similar salaries and don't tell each other how to spend it aside from what we put into our house. Sometimes I have to compromise but the frustration subsides when I remember how much less I could afford without her.
One of my top tips to wealth would be to find a partner. Two incomes is actually way better than just double the income.
Say you both earn $50k/year and expense are:
$20k/year residence
$15k/year misc.
On your own you only bank $15k/year.
With a partner you share the residence and expenses (maybe slightly higher), so you pocket say $60k/year. That's a x4 improvement over being single. x2 improvement individually.
Another benefit is bulk discount. It costs less / sq ft to build bigger homes and most of the demand is concentrated at the lower end. If you dare to pool incomes and extend yourselves you get a better deal.
Rough prices for houses here:
1000 sq ft on 0.1 acre, 50 years old: 500k
2000 sq ft on 0.15, 20 years old: 750k
3000 sq ft on 0.2 acre, 5 years old: 1M
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Now they are building apartment towers because anything within 800m of a train station is now zoned for high rise development. Small shops and business dropping like flies as they are bought out by the developers. And I've shot several videos of my riding around Nowest which is now high-rise central with a ton more to come. There is even talk of a casio going in.
That would be my cue to get the hell out of Dodge, being surrounded by highrises is an unlivable hell to me. It's a bit stressful just thinking about it.
I live further than 800m away from a train station, so no threat of that happening to me. They could of course attempt to change the zoning laws, but that would be political suicide.
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High rises are good planning around transit zones, like near railway stations. We can't continue to build car dependent suburbia endlessly. (It's called transport-oriented development, by the way.)
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High rises are good planning around transit zones, like near railway stations. We can't continue to build car dependent suburbia endlessly. (It's called transport-oriented development, by the way.)
You mean ghetto
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That's why I never got legally married in the first place. It's a huge financial risk, for very little reward. It serves very little purpose in modern society.
I thought Fran being single is part of the problem? That the banks aren't willing to lend to an older single woman?
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High rises are good planning around transit zones, like near railway stations. We can't continue to build car dependent suburbia endlessly. (It's called transport-oriented development, by the way.)
You mean ghetto
I have never seen anywhere around a busy metro station that could be remotely called a ghetto. Usually these locations are popular places to live and consequentially the housing costs shoot up, eventually leading to gentrification of the area. That is its own problem for some, but I would argue it is the natural improvement of an area and shouldn't be stopped, we can't live in the past because some people can't afford to live in the future.
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Come on over; I can show you some in Boston; others can show you some in Seattle or Baltimore.
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It just pains me to see people like Fran put themselves in a spiral of continuous/repeated severe stress, even when alternatives really do exist.
It's like having a friend of family member who smokes, and has terrible lung problems and persistent coughing. When confronted, they say it's not because of the smoking, it's because they have a lung condition/5G towers/bad vibes/took a bad vaccine/something else, and refuse to see the whole situation; they even often say that smoking alleviates the coughing and the lung problems. It's like seeing someone smoke while having nasal cannula for oxygen: self-destructive.
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Fran’s situation reminded me of the attached saying……
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[...]
My wife and I fight about this constantly, I still live in the same house that I bought 39 years ago and I drive a 13 year old truck . My wife has been badgering me for YEARS to buy buy a newer house in fancy subdivision and a newer vehicle and to take one of the expensive European cruises but I simply refuse to.
I'm not saying you should blow all your money but it's nice to have some lifestyle progression throughout the years. You're career probably progressed over those 39 years, why can't your lifestyle?
IMO it did progress. I bought much newer and nicer cars than what I had previously and I had money for my (too many) hobbies including buying some expensive TE. And I had bought a house that I was happy to continue living in and not some POS starter home in zero foot setback subdivision. And I was putting money into savings and retirement accounts. So I had absolutely no reason to want to go spend for a fancier looking house.
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That's why I never got legally married in the first place. It's a huge financial risk, for very little reward. It serves very little purpose in modern society.
I thought Fran being single is part of the problem? That the banks aren't willing to lend to an older single woman?
Fran might claim that that is the problem or part of the problem but the truth is that you can't barrow you're way out an income shortfall!
"That the banks aren't willing to lend to an older single woman?"
I seriously doubt that that is the truth. The Feds would call that sexual discrimination and age discrimination and quickly sue any such bank out of business. The more likely case is that Fran is simply a bad loan risk from the bank's prospective. My father, then in his 70s and single, got a 30 year mortgage loan so it certainly is possible. Provided that you have the credit, a steady income, etc. In fact, at least three single women in my family have all gotten large home loans from the banks in the last 20 or so years. One of them was nearly 70 and borrowed about $300,000 just over 2 years ago.
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High rises are good planning around transit zones, like near railway stations. We can't continue to build car dependent suburbia endlessly. (It's called transport-oriented development, by the way.)
You mean ghetto
I have never seen anywhere around a busy metro station that could be remotely called a ghetto. Usually these locations are popular places to live and consequentially the housing costs shoot up, eventually leading to gentrification of the area. That is its own problem for some, but I would argue it is the natural improvement of an area and shouldn't be stopped, we can't live in the past because some people can't afford to live in the future.
It still is a ghetto. I come across such places every now and then (including in Amsterdam) and these are horrible places to live. It is like a prison where you basically travel between work, the train station, local super market and your home. As there are inaccessible by car, you can't get out and nobody can visit you.
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I seriously doubt that that is the truth. The Feds would call that sexual discrimination and age discrimination and quickly sue any such bank out of business. The more likely case is that Fran is simply a bad loan risk from the bank's prospective. My father, then in his 70s and single, got a 30 year mortgage loan so it certainly is possible. Provided that you have the credit, a steady income, etc. In fact, at least three single women in my family have all gotten large home loans from the banks in the last 20 or so years. One of them was nearly 70 and borrowed about $300,000 just over 2 years ago.
Your father got a mortgage that would run until he was 100 years old? What bank issues a mortgage well past the expected lifespan of someone? In the UK, mortgages are pretty much capped up to retirement. The only exception is a lifetime mortgage where the bank can take your house when you go into a carehome or die, but you cannot buy a whole house with that, just get some cash released to do up the kitchen or something.
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It still is a ghetto. I come across such places every now and then (including in Amsterdam) and these are horrible places to live. It is like a prison where you basically travel between work, the train station, local super market and your home. As there are inaccessible by car, you can't get out and nobody can visit you.
I'd be interested in a street view of an Amsterdam ghetto.
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Lenders are prohibited from age discrimination based on the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, and there is no maximum age requirement. That means a 90-year-old borrower can take out a 30-year mortgage if they prove they meet the minimum mortgage requirements for the loan they're applying for.
This is, IMO, proper and a very good thing. Let the loan be settled as part of the estate, but do not restrict the ability of seniors to buy housing on an equal footing as everyone else.
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Lenders are prohibited from age discrimination based on the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, and there is no maximum age requirement. That means a 90-year-old borrower can take out a 30-year mortgage if they prove they meet the minimum mortgage requirements for the loan they're applying for.
This is, IMO, proper and a very good thing. Let the loan be settled as part of the estate, but do not restrict the ability of seniors to buy housing on an equal footing as everyone else.
Does the borrower have to demonstrate some non-working income, like a large passive investment source or pension that can cover the mortgage? Otherwise it's hard to see how a 90 year old could qualify for any mortgage. AFAIK in the UK it's possible to get a mortgage on pensionable income, but it would have to be a small mortgage, or a very generous pension.
It's not uncommon for mortgages to be settled on death (even healthy 30 year olds can have heart attacks), but the problem is they're usually issued on the basis of employment and hence they stop when you get into retirement as (most) pensions don't give income comparable to a job. The 'game' is that you aim to have your mortgage gone before your pension kicks in, so you don't have to worry about having such a huge pension.
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It still is a ghetto. I come across such places every now and then (including in Amsterdam) and these are horrible places to live. It is like a prison where you basically travel between work, the train station, local super market and your home. As there are inaccessible by car, you can't get out and nobody can visit you.
I'd be interested in a street view of an Amsterdam ghetto.
Located in the middle of an urban jungle. Especially during the morning or evening you can't get in or out.
(https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/tjEIch4OjFdKvbD3X8LbIRXEFcw/diocontent/134763614/_fitwidth/763?appId=93a17a8fd81db0de025c8abd1cca1279&quality=0.8)
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That just looks like a modern residential living complex, what am I missing? OK, I wouldn't want to raise a huge family there but for young professionals, childless couples etc. it's fine... We have these types of complexes in the UK too, nothing wrong with them. Usually you don't own a car if you live there because parking is too expensive, you either use public transport only, or you rent a car (ZipCar or similar service) when you need one. Or, since you'd probably be Dutch if you lived there, you'd cycle.
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High rises are good planning around transit zones, like near railway stations. We can't continue to build car dependent suburbia endlessly. (It's called transport-oriented development, by the way.)
Well I can't live in one of those areas, it's either car dependent suburbia or rural, for me, urban is absolutely intolerable. The solution is fewer people, the population continues to grow exponentially, we should be focused on reducing the population before nature does it for us, not building more houses.
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Well I can't live in one of those areas, it's either car dependent suburbia or rural, for me, urban is absolutely intolerable. The solution is fewer people, the population continues to grow exponentially, we should be focused on reducing the population before nature does it for us, not building more houses.
Since I'll make the reasonable assumption you're not a genocidal maniac :) there is no reduction of the world's population that is foreseeable. It is, with high certainty, going to hit 10 billion around 2070. So we will need to accommodate another 25% more people. It may reduce from around 2100, but at that point most people on this forum will not be too bothered by that.
I don't like living in high rises, for what it's worth, but whatever we do, we need to avoid building places that are hyper car dependent. The car needs to be a last resort, not a primary mode of transport. That doesn't mean you don't own a car but you don't use it for every journey. Especially given the statistic is the average car journey is like 3 miles long, which is something that could be done by bike or by good public transport (if it existed in many areas!)
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Your father got a mortgage that would run until he was 100 years old? What bank issues a mortgage well past the expected lifespan of someone? In the UK, mortgages are pretty much capped up to retirement. The only exception is a lifetime mortgage where the bank can take your house when you go into a carehome or die, but you cannot buy a whole house with that, just get some cash released to do up the kitchen or something.
Mine did too. I don't know how it works in the UK but here age discrimination is illegal, a person that is 80 can take out a 30 year loan, the bank can't use their age as a reason to deny them. If they die as my dad did, the loan becomes the responsibility of the estate.
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Since I'll make the reasonable assumption you're not a genocidal maniac :) there is no reduction of the world's population that is foreseeable. It is, with high certainty, going to hit 10 billion around 2070. So we will need to accommodate another 25% more people. It may reduce from around 2100, but at that point most people on this forum will not be too bothered by that.
I don't like living in high rises, for what it's worth, but whatever we do, we need to avoid building places that are hyper car dependent. The car needs to be a last resort, not a primary mode of transport. That doesn't mean you don't own a car but you don't use it for every journey. Especially given the statistic is the average car journey is like 3 miles long, which is something that could be done by bike or by good public transport (if it existed in many areas!)
Well if those billions of people want to live somewhere I hope it's not near me, and I will do anything I possibly can to block the construction of more housing in my vicinity, it is already crowded to the point of being nearly intolerable and I am practically counting the days until I can retire and move to a quiet rural area. 10 billion is not sustainable with the resources on this planet and to support that many we are borrowing from the future. I may not be a homicidal maniac but Mother Nature is. Right now the system we have encourages growth. People actually get tax credits for having children, I think taxing should be progressive, increasing sharply with the number of children one has in order to strongly encourage having only one or none at all.
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Mine did too. I don't know how it works in the UK but here age discrimination is illegal, a person that is 80 can take out a 30 year loan, the bank can't use their age as a reason to deny them. If they die as my dad did, the loan becomes the responsibility of the estate.
If discrimination on age is prohibited is there no lower limit on age? Or are 12 year olds allowed to take out a mortgage too? This just seems bizarre to me!
Well if those billions of people want to live somewhere I hope it's not near me, and I will do anything I possibly can to block the construction of more housing in my vicinity, it is already crowded to the point of being nearly intolerable and I am practically counting the days until I can retire and move to a quiet rural area. 10 billion is not sustainable with the resources on this planet and to support that many we are borrowing from the future. I may not be a homicidal maniac but Mother Nature is. Right now the system we have encourages growth. People actually get tax credits for having children, I think taxing should be progressive, increasing sharply with the number of children one has in order to strongly consider having only one.
Sorry, going to be a no from me. The reason we're seeing a massive housing crisis in this country and across the western world is attitudes like this which are politically entrenched. We do need to build more homes, even excluding immigration we've not kept up with the population leading to record house prices and shortages. Now we have an aging population which needs care and post Covid effects mean the workforce is too small to maintain our standard of living, so we need immigration to some extent -- where do you expect people to live? Also even if the west had basically no population growth (it's already below replacement rate for many countries) you have would still have economically developing countries which have growing populations, these are not stopping any time soon.
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A country with a growing population that isn't mine doesn't make me think very hard about how the housing should be built. That country should decide for themselves and my opinion is blank and, even if it wasn't, should be ignored.
We have plenty of space in the US; not everyone needs to live close enough that they could safely hand a hammer to each other at all times. It turns out that some people like living in dense cities. That should be an option. It turns out that others like living in suburbs; that should also be an option. Still others like living in rural areas; that should also be an option. There is a natural limitation that not every can have 1000' of oceanfront, more people want to live there than can, and so oceanfront properties end up being naturally more expensive, but other than that, people can find the type of housing that best matches their preferences crossed with ability and willingness to pay.
I'm sure that will mean continued high-density development in cities; that's fantastic and I hope they continue to find lots of people who want to live in them; that makes those people happy AND makes happy the people who prefer to live in lower density areas (because more areas stay low-density).
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To be clear, I've no issue in general with low density homes (some people do), I live in one, so I would be a hypocrite if I opposed them. What I am opposed to is building acre after acre of suburbia with the only way out to drive a car. That's objectively bad. It's bad for air pollution, it's bad for people's health ("the exercise of life" - walking to the shops or to the metro-station is good for your health), and it's generally unsustainable because these areas cost too much to maintain for the property tax paid. When I looked at the house to buy, I chose somewhere that was close to the town centre. This morning, I walked back from dropping off my car to have it serviced. It was a 15 minute walk. I'd have had to get a cab, or wait around, if it was one of those American stroads covered back to back in Wal-Mart's and Quick-Tyre-Fitting-Co's.
We should be building more transport-oriented development. It was like my example from some time ago, comparing an older 1930's Toronto suburb to modern Colorado. Take a good inner city suburb that's located near amenities and a metro station, build detached, semi-detached terraced homes and flats there, with the flats generally being built closer to the metro. The properties will be naturally a little closer together, but would still be pretty decent in terms of internal space; it might be more common to build a two-storey property instead of a one-storey to maximise land usage though. But ultimately, that should be the goal. Unfortunately, in many areas, it's literally illegal to build this type of mixed-use area, because commercial properties (of any kind) can't be zoned in the same area as residential, even if those commercial properties are servicing the residents. And it's illegal to mix single family homes with higher density flats, despite the two being absolutely compatible. It's absolutely bonkers city planning.
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To be clear, I've no issue in general with low density homes (some people do), I live in one, so I would be a hypocrite if I opposed them. What I am opposed to is building acre after acre of suburbia with the only way out to drive a car. That's objectively bad. It's bad for air pollution, it's bad for people's health ("the exercise of life" - walking to the shops or to the metro-station is good for your health), and it's generally unsustainable because these areas cost too much to maintain for the property tax paid. When I looked at the house to buy, I chose somewhere that was close to the town centre. This morning, I walked back from dropping off my car to have it serviced. It was a 15 minute walk. I'd have had to get a cab, or wait around, if it was one of those American stroads covered back to back in Wal-Mart's and Quick-Tyre-Fitting-Co's.
We should be building more transport-oriented development. It was like my example from some time ago, comparing an older 1930's Toronto suburb to modern Colorado. Take a good inner city suburb that's located near amenities and a metro station, build detached, semi-detached terraced homes and flats there, with the flats generally being built closer to the metro. The properties will be naturally a little closer together, but would still be pretty decent in terms of internal space; it might be more common to build a two-storey property instead of a one-storey to maximise land usage though. But ultimately, that should be the goal. Unfortunately, in many areas, it's literally illegal to build this type of mixed-use area, because commercial properties (of any kind) can't be zoned in the same area as residential, even if those commercial properties are servicing the residents. And it's illegal to mix single family homes with higher density flats, despite the two being absolutely compatible. It's absolutely bonkers city planning.
As you so well display Planners couldn't plan a piss up in a brewery ! :horse:
50yrs back a lot less ppl had cars and most walked to nearby employment. One wonders why such lifestyle opportunities have been resigned to previous centuries ? :-//
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Since I'll make the reasonable assumption you're not a genocidal maniac :) there is no reduction of the world's population that is foreseeable. It is, with high certainty, going to hit 10 billion around 2070. So we will need to accommodate another 25% more people. It may reduce from around 2100, but at that point most people on this forum will not be too bothered by that.
I don't like living in high rises, for what it's worth, but whatever we do, we need to avoid building places that are hyper car dependent. The car needs to be a last resort, not a primary mode of transport. That doesn't mean you don't own a car but you don't use it for every journey. Especially given the statistic is the average car journey is like 3 miles long, which is something that could be done by bike or by good public transport (if it existed in many areas!)
Well if those billions of people want to live somewhere I hope it's not near me, and I will do anything I possibly can to block the construction of more housing in my vicinity, it is already crowded to the point of being nearly intolerable and I am practically counting the days until I can retire and move to a quiet rural area. 10 billion is not sustainable with the resources on this planet and to support that many we are borrowing from the future. I may not be a homicidal maniac but Mother Nature is. Right now the system we have encourages growth. People actually get tax credits for having children, I think taxing should be progressive, increasing sharply with the number of children one has in order to strongly consider having only one.
Yup, concur. The house I grew up in had a decent view of the sky until this year when an American company bought up a mall's parking lot to build a ~20 story residential building, now all we see from my parent's place is a crane and a high rise going up. If it was only 5 high it would be OK but that isn't dense enough to bring in the revenue for the new millennium's landlords.
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Mine did too. I don't know how it works in the UK but here age discrimination is illegal, a person that is 80 can take out a 30 year loan, the bank can't use their age as a reason to deny them. If they die as my dad did, the loan becomes the responsibility of the estate.
If discrimination on age is prohibited is there no lower limit on age? Or are 12 year olds allowed to take out a mortgage too? This just seems bizarre to me!
Well if those billions of people want to live somewhere I hope it's not near me, and I will do anything I possibly can to block the construction of more housing in my vicinity, it is already crowded to the point of being nearly intolerable and I am practically counting the days until I can retire and move to a quiet rural area. 10 billion is not sustainable with the resources on this planet and to support that many we are borrowing from the future. I may not be a homicidal maniac but Mother Nature is. Right now the system we have encourages growth. People actually get tax credits for having children, I think taxing should be progressive, increasing sharply with the number of children one has in order to strongly consider having only one.
Sorry, going to be a no from me. The reason we're seeing a massive housing crisis in this country and across the western world is attitudes like this which are politically entrenched. We do need to build more homes, even excluding immigration we've not kept up with the population leading to record house prices and shortages. Now we have an aging population which needs care and post Covid effects mean the workforce is too small to maintain our standard of living, so we need immigration to some extent -- where do you expect people to live? Also even if the west had basically no population growth (it's already below replacement rate for many countries) you have would still have economically developing countries which have growing populations, these are not stopping any time soon.
As far as I know you have to be an adult to take out a mortgage, so 18 years old in the US, under that age you cannot consent to a legally binding contract.
I don't know what my views on population have to do with politics. It is mathematically provable that a system supplied by finite resources in a finite space cannot sustain infinite growth. I don't care whether someone is trying to come here from Mexico or Sweden or Texas, I hold nothing personal against anyone from any particular region, there's simply no more room here! At some point somebody will have to leave if somebody else wants a place. Even right now we rely heavily on fossil fuels to produce enough food to feed the existing population, scientific consensus according to what I can find is that the practical sustainable human population on earth is somewhere between 2 billion and 6 billion people. We are well beyond that already and it is a train wreck waiting to happen. Nature is going to make a correction if we don't, Covid was just a warning shot.
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We should be building more transport-oriented development. It was like my example from some time ago, comparing an older 1930's Toronto suburb to modern Colorado.
It is not going to work. Public transport density has been slashed massively. Netherlands as an example: Between the early 1900's to 1950's there where lots of tram lines and every village had a railway station (*). Nowadays a lot of places don't even have a bus stop. You can choose to live next to a transport 'hub' but there is nowhere to go from there nowadays.
Or check this map from the UK that shows old and existing lines. Note how many lines and stations have been closed:
https://www.trackmaps.co.uk/historic-railway-tracks-of-uk/historic-map-of-uk-railways/ (https://www.trackmaps.co.uk/historic-railway-tracks-of-uk/historic-map-of-uk-railways/)
* I recall that my parents took my sister and I to look at a home to move to which was an old railway station at the border of the (small) city where I used to live. It even has a Wikipedia page: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halte_Gouwsluis (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halte_Gouwsluis)
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A country with a growing population that isn't mine doesn't make me think very hard about how the housing should be built. That country should decide for themselves and my opinion is blank and, even if it wasn't, should be ignored.
We have plenty of space in the US; not everyone needs to live close enough that they could safely hand a hammer to each other at all times. It turns out that some people like living in dense cities. That should be an option. It turns out that others like living in suburbs; that should also be an option. Still others like living in rural areas; that should also be an option. There is a natural limitation that not every can have 1000' of oceanfront, more people want to live there than can, and so oceanfront properties end up being naturally more expensive, but other than that, people can find the type of housing that best matches their preferences crossed with ability and willingness to pay.
I'm sure that will mean continued high-density development in cities; that's fantastic and I hope they continue to find lots of people who want to live in them; that makes those people happy AND makes happy the people who prefer to live in lower density areas (because more areas stay low-density).
I'm in full support of having dense cities, many people do actually like to live like that although I'm at a loss to understand why but good for them. The problem I have is when people try to turn all the suburbs and rural areas into cities instead of just making the already existing cities more dense. Throughout my life I've seen people flooding into the quiet little town I've grown up in and complaining that it's boring. Well if it's boring then why the #*&%# did you move here you dolt? There are already cities all over the country, if you like urban life go live in one of those cities, don't crowd me out of my home. Right now I'm fighting with the council that is trying to rezone residential neighborhoods for duplexes and triplexes, there's already a massive problem with traffic and homes with insufficient parking leading to cars crowding the sides of the street, packing more people into these neighborhoods just makes the whole thing worse. The developers put up these massive mixed used towers with hardly any parking in place of economical strip malls and they make millions then leave those of us living in the area holding the bag. The developers don't have to deal with the traffic congestion or other issues their projects create. Then whenever they build more housing it just draws more people to the area, there is an infinite supply of people that want to live in certain regions, housing is the only real limiting factor so the more housing you build the more people you get. Nothing is gained and the quality of life for everyone diminishes the more crowded it gets. There's a major city (Seattle) only about 10 miles from me, move there if you want to live in a city.
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It is not going to work. Public transport density has been slashed massively. Netherlands as an example: Between the early 1900's to 1950's there where lots of tram lines and every village had a railway station. Nowadays a lot of places don't even have a bus stop. You can choose to live next to a transport 'hub' but there is nowhere to go from there nowadays.
Covid took a massive toll on the public transportation here. Suddenly getting onto a bus with packed with 80 random strangers didn't seem like such a good idea and ridership plummeted. That resulted in a lot of route cancellations which has made the bus much less practical and it has not recovered. I think it will take a decade or more for people to be as comfortable packing onto a bus or train as they used to be.
The upside of all this is I have not had a serious cold or flu in nearly 3 years.
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Unfortunately, in many areas, it's literally illegal to build this type of mixed-use area, because commercial properties (of any kind) can't be zoned in the same area as residential, even if those commercial properties are servicing the residents. And it's illegal to mix single family homes with higher density flats, despite the two being absolutely compatible. It's absolutely bonkers city planning.
I fully 100% support this type of zoning, it isn't bonkers at all, it makes perfect sense. People that want to live in detached houses in the suburbs don't want to be packed in with big apartment complexes and tall buildings. Already here they keep tearing down strip malls and everything else and putting in this great huge condo/apartment towers with retail shops below. It is exactly Sodo Sopah from the show Southpark. Affordable shops are gone, replaced by trendy restaurants where you can get a $25 hamburger with a $18 glass of wine and you can live in the building if you can afford $4,000 a month rent. Zoning exists for a reason, it separates things so people who don't want to live in a city can live in relative peace. I want to live in a neighborhood that only allows single family detached houses, I bought a house in that kind of neighborhood because that's specifically the environment I wanted to live in, and I don't want it being changed into something else.
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50yrs back a lot less ppl had cars and most walked to nearby employment. One wonders why such lifestyle opportunities have been resigned to previous centuries ? :-//
Ssshhh! Zero assets Consumers Humans are the happiest, when they live in densely packed concrete cubes, rent everything so they are maximally available for exploitation dynamic and unburdened, and free to be exploited experience everything the world has to sell give. If you disagree, there is medication available to fix you help with your misconceptions.
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Right now I'm fighting with the council that is trying to rezone residential neighborhoods for duplexes and triplexes, there's already a massive problem with traffic and homes with insufficient parking
Be glad you don't live in BC. Our new dictator is removing the ability to limit density from every city in the province. He plans to allow developers to put triplex on any single family lot regardless of what the neighbors or city council wants. He is also banning stratas from having rental restrictions.
This same dictator also forces free homes with supervised injection sites for junkies into cities who already have too many 'wet houses' and don't want any more.
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It is not going to work. Public transport density has been slashed massively. Netherlands as an example: Between the early 1900's to 1950's there where lots of tram lines and every village had a railway station. Nowadays a lot of places don't even have a bus stop. You can choose to live next to a transport 'hub' but there is nowhere to go from there nowadays.
Covid took a massive toll on the public transportation here. Suddenly getting onto a bus with packed with 80 random strangers didn't seem like such a good idea and ridership plummeted. That resulted in a lot of route cancellations which has made the bus much less practical and it has not recovered. I think it will take a decade or more for people to be as comfortable packing onto a bus or train as they used to be.
Same here! I used to travel with the train a couple of times per week but I'm still taking the bike. I think I have been on a train once the last 2.5 years and I don't see that changing. Public transport use was going up year after year but Covid has set it back like 2 decades. With working from home as the new standard for many people, I doubt public transport use will ever reach pre-Covid levels. This also circles back to living in densely populated areas; if you don't have to go to the office so many times per week, you can choose to live further away.
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I don't know what my views on population have to do with politics. It is mathematically provable that a system supplied by finite resources in a finite space cannot sustain infinite growth. I don't care whether someone is trying to come here from Mexico or Sweden or Texas, I hold nothing personal against anyone from any particular region, there's simply no more room here! At some point somebody will have to leave if somebody else wants a place. Even right now we rely heavily on fossil fuels to produce enough food to feed the existing population, scientific consensus according to what I can find is that the practical sustainable human population on earth is somewhere between 2 billion and 6 billion people. We are well beyond that already and it is a train wreck waiting to happen. Nature is going to make a correction if we don't, Covid was just a warning shot.
I didn't say that the population would infinitely grow; in fact I was clear based on current predictions it will peak around 2070 or so, which is still *checks calendar* 50 years away, so you're going to need to deal with that problem whether you like it or not.
I fully 100% support this type of zoning, it isn't bonkers at all, it makes perfect sense. People that want to live in detached houses in the suburbs don't want to be packed in with big apartment complexes and tall buildings.
That's not what I'm suggesting. Take a look at an area I used to live in, in England:
GMaps link (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.2291952,-0.2424045,3a,75y,187.29h,85.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sL8qbfNGTCQXa2NGgxYChXw!2e0!5s20221001T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
Those are detached houses (5 bedroom ~ 1200 sqft I think, large for the UK), but just down the road there's an apartment block (3-4 stories tall) with 8 units in it, each 2 bedroom. This is a good use of space. There's a mixed use of the land, providing density near a major train station, whilst allowing people with the means to buy a big house to do so. A little further away, there's a shop and two fast-food restaurants. There could be more - this is a pretty low-end example as far as mixed-use goes - but it's a lot better than most of the US's suburbia.
Already here they keep tearing down strip malls and everything else and putting in this great huge condo/apartment towers with retail shops below. It is exactly Sodo Sopah from the show Southpark. Affordable shops are gone, replaced by trendy restaurants where you can get a $25 hamburger with a $18 glass of wine and you can live in the building if you can afford $4,000 a month rent.
I would guess such units only exist because someone is willing to pay that much, that's just gentrification. That doesn't make the concept of mixed use zoning bad. You may as well complain that any town is expensive to live in because it's got a major university or employer nearby. You either get higher rents/property costs or you get some kind of rent control and allocation system, I'd much rather prefer the former.
Zoning exists for a reason, it separates things so people who don't want to live in a city can live in relative peace. I want to live in a neighborhood that only allows single family detached houses, I bought a house in that kind of neighborhood because that's specifically the environment I wanted to live in, and I don't want it being changed into something else.
Your opinion; you're entitled to it. I'd love more mixed use areas. Thankfully cities are rapidly waking up to the disaster that single-family home zoning is, and are taking steps to prevent more of it being created.
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Where I live the city is a mix of light industrial / office areas and areas with homes. It provides jobs relatively close to home and prevents massive congestions.
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Same here! I used to travel with the train a couple of times per week but I'm still taking the bike. I think I have been on a train once the last 2.5 years and I don't see that changing. Public transport use was going up year after year but Covid has set it back like 2 decades. With working from home as the new standard for many people, I doubt public transport use will ever reach pre-Covid levels. This also circles back to living in densely populated areas; if you don't have to go to the office so many times per week, you can choose to live further away.
IMHO remote work is far more beneficial to the environment than public transportation anyway. Whether in private cars or on buses or trains it just seems like such a waste to move millions of people from home to an office and then back again in the evening when their work involves sitting at a computer that can be located anywhere. Obviously not all jobs can be done remotely, but for those that can there should be significant incentives to encourage companies to offer that option.
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Be glad you don't live in BC. Our new dictator is removing the ability to limit density from every city in the province. He plans to allow developers to put triplex on any single family lot regardless of what the neighbors or city council wants. He is also banning stratas from having rental restrictions.
This same dictator also forces free homes with supervised injection sites for junkies into cities who already have too many 'wet houses' and don't want any more.
That sounds absolutely horrible. I have friends in Kamloops and I used to visit Vancouver occasionally when some of them lived there. Hopefully people come to their senses at some point and oust whoever that is but I'm not optimistic.
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Same here! I used to travel with the train a couple of times per week but I'm still taking the bike. I think I have been on a train once the last 2.5 years and I don't see that changing. Public transport use was going up year after year but Covid has set it back like 2 decades. With working from home as the new standard for many people, I doubt public transport use will ever reach pre-Covid levels. This also circles back to living in densely populated areas; if you don't have to go to the office so many times per week, you can choose to live further away.
IMHO remote work is far more beneficial to the environment than public transportation anyway. Whether in private cars or on buses or trains it just seems like such a waste to move millions of people from home to an office and then back again in the evening when their work involves sitting at a computer that can be located anywhere. Obviously not all jobs can be done remotely, but for those that can there should be significant incentives to encourage companies to offer that option.
Add the environmental impacts of building, maintaining and heating/cooling the offices. Makes remote work look even more beneficial.
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Right now I'm fighting with the council that is trying to rezone residential neighborhoods for duplexes and triplexes, there's already a massive problem with traffic and homes with insufficient parking
Be glad you don't live in BC. Our new dictator is removing the ability to limit density from every city in the province. He plans to allow developers to put triplex on any single family lot regardless of what the neighbors or city council wants. He is also banning stratas from having rental restrictions.
This same dictator also forces free homes with supervised injection sites for junkies into cities who already have too many 'wet houses' and don't want any more.
WTF?
At what level is this decision made?
Here it's at the local council level. They have full control over land and building planing and zoning. Subject to the occasional big state and federal infrastructure.
If someone is making construction renovations to their house, then all the neighbors automatically get letter outlining the plans, and time to object. And I get constantly notified of all new nearby construction in Norwest business park and invite residends in to inspec the plans and lodge complaints etc. It's all taken very seriously here.
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IMHO remote work is far more beneficial to the environment than public transportation anyway. Whether in private cars or on buses or trains it just seems like such a waste to move millions of people from home to an office and then back again in the evening when their work involves sitting at a computer that can be located anywhere. Obviously not all jobs can be done remotely, but for those that can there should be significant incentives to encourage companies to offer that option.
Remote work did seriously dent the future growth of cities and reduced the demand on public transport; but it's still going to be necessary to have both in the future. Many jobs can't be done remotely, and some can't be fully remote, so cities and their transport will continue to exist. But, that's only one small part of why people choose to live in a denser area and statistics show that remote work has only increased by about 5-10% from the pre-COVID norm; basically, if you could work remotely before, you definitely work remotely now, but many have returned back to their place of work.
I'd be strongly in favour of giving companies a tax discount for every remote worker they employ, to incentivise it further (though the savings on office rent and costs there should also factor in.)
In terms of HVAC, I think it's a wash. A big building might cost more to heat or cool per m^2, but it's probably better insulated than an average house, and has a higher density and a better maintained heating system. Also, if employers continue to use the same office post-remote, then it will still cost a lot to heat/cool despite the smaller quantity of people working there. (Our office is at about 1/3rd capacity right now, but I'll bet the heating bill is similar.) The reduction in drivers on the roads though is going to be quite significant to emissions though, I suspect.
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WTF?
At what level is this decision made?
Here it's at the local council level. They have full control over land and building planing and zoning. Subject to the occasional big state and federal infrastructure.
If someone is making construction renovations to their house, then all the neighbors automatically get letter outlining the plans, and time to object. And I get constantly notified of all new nearby construction in Norwest business park and invite residends in to inspec the plans and lodge complaints etc. It's all taken very seriously here.
That sounds like a very sensible arrangement, I would love to have something like that here.
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Be glad you don't live in BC. Our new dictator is removing the ability to limit density from every city in the province. He plans to allow developers to put triplex on any single family lot regardless of what the neighbors or city council wants. He is also banning stratas from having rental restrictions.
This same dictator also forces free homes with supervised injection sites for junkies into cities who already have too many 'wet houses' and don't want any more.
That sounds absolutely horrible. I have friends in Kamloops and I used to visit Vancouver occasionally when some of them lived there. Hopefully people come to their senses at some point and oust whoever that is but I'm not optimistic.
Unfortunately most of the population pays extra to live in dense areas and apparently think people who want low density deserve to have their choice taken away.
The free homes with supervised injection sites are hopefully going to slow down soon. There is finally some attention being paid to their residents with dozens of convictions for theft and assault.
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I'd be strongly in favour of giving companies a tax discount for every remote worker
not a chance when our lovely goverbent is forcing cival servants to return to the office.
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Right now I'm fighting with the council that is trying to rezone residential neighborhoods for duplexes and triplexes, there's already a massive problem with traffic and homes with insufficient parking
Be glad you don't live in BC. Our new dictator is removing the ability to limit density from every city in the province. He plans to allow developers to put triplex on any single family lot regardless of what the neighbors or city council wants. He is also banning stratas from having rental restrictions.
This same dictator also forces free homes with supervised injection sites for junkies into cities who already have too many 'wet houses' and don't want any more.
WTF?
At what level is this decision made?
Here it's at the local council level. They have full control over land and building planing and zoning. Subject to the occasional big state and federal infrastructure.
If someone is making construction renovations to their house, then all the neighbors automatically get letter outlining the plans, and time to object. And I get constantly notified of all new nearby construction in Norwest business park and invite residends in to inspec the plans and lodge complaints etc. It's all taken very seriously here.
That's generally how it works here but it is changing. The government of the province of BC is taking power away from local councils. Worst part is the guy pushing this was not elected to be premier. He replaced our old premier who retired early due to cancer.
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I'd be strongly in favour of giving companies a tax discount for every remote worker
not a chance when our lovely goverbent is forcing cival servants to return to the office.
Out here the government was lobbied by restaurant owners who wanted people to be dragged into offices so they could make life more expensive for them (going out to eat lunch).
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Unfortunately, in many areas, it's literally illegal to build this type of mixed-use area, because commercial properties (of any kind) can't be zoned in the same area as residential, even if those commercial properties are servicing the residents. And it's illegal to mix single family homes with higher density flats, despite the two being absolutely compatible. It's absolutely bonkers city planning.
I fully 100% support this type of zoning, it isn't bonkers at all, it makes perfect sense. People that want to live in detached houses in the suburbs don't want to be packed in with big apartment complexes and tall buildings. Already here they keep tearing down strip malls and everything else and putting in this great huge condo/apartment towers with retail shops below. It is exactly Sodo Sopah from the show Southpark. Affordable shops are gone, replaced by trendy restaurants where you can get a $25 hamburger with a $18 glass of wine and you can live in the building if you can afford $4,000 a month rent. Zoning exists for a reason, it separates things so people who don't want to live in a city can live in relative peace. I want to live in a neighborhood that only allows single family detached houses, I bought a house in that kind of neighborhood because that's specifically the environment I wanted to live in, and I don't want it being changed into something else.
Absolutely. That's how it works here. People are very protective of the environment they buy into. The zoning maps and future council plans are big part of buying a place here in Sydney.
e.g. here is map just south of my business park.
If you buy in an R2 zoning area then you expect
They have even actively changed R3 medium density zoning into R2 to "ensure controls reflect and protect the established low density character of these areas."
https://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/files/sharedassets/public/ecm-website-documents/page-documents/building/lep-2020/fact_sheet_-_review_of_the_r3_medium_density_residential_zone.pdf (https://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/files/sharedassets/public/ecm-website-documents/page-documents/building/lep-2020/fact_sheet_-_review_of_the_r3_medium_density_residential_zone.pdf)
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That's why I never got legally married in the first place. It's a huge financial risk, for very little reward. It serves very little purpose in modern society.
I thought Fran being single is part of the problem? That the banks aren't willing to lend to an older single woman?
No, it's that her Youtube and Patreon income does not count as income. To the banks she literally has zero income.
I know of other US Youtube creators with the same problem.
There may be creative ways around this, like becoming a company or organisation and taking a wage or some such, but I'm not sure.
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Fran’s situation reminded me of the attached saying……
I've tried to find places in downtown Philly that would consolidate her 2 storage units and factory into one lower cost alternative, but even that was sharply rebuked. :-//
I understand the crime aspect of Philly and how certain places you wouldn't want to be, but she doesn't even seem willing to actively look at these options. Maybe she is always doing that, I don't know, but if I had to put out a video asking for finanical help, then I'd also let people know that I'm open to crowd sourced suggestions.
I know you'd get tons of useless email, but maybe, just maybe someone might just find a gem of an opportunity.
Louis Rossmann for example when he was looking for places, I found some places that he didn't find, and he even did a video touring one them. Didn't turn out, but at least he was thankful and willing to look.
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Dave, hence my ‘horse to water’ cartoon, above. Sometimes you just cannot help a person, as they are too inflexible or have a closed mind, and you have to let them do as they wish despite suspecting that it will end badly for them :( Being a good and kind person you have tried to help Fran and it cannot be easy to find a ‘brick wall’ placed in front of your good suggestions. Good on you for trying to assist though :-+
Fraser
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Have you looked up the crime stats for that area?
Without actually saying exactly where of course, but is it safe area at least?
If it is bad, I cannot understand living in such an area (I did for 7 years) as opposed to living in a fear free and mentally healthy, profitable area.
The helicopter used to go overhead in that 7 year period every night.
Shootings, stabbings and drugs were the norm. Not for me. I got out.
I'm sure Philly and Camden right across the bridge is much worse.
I hate to bring up the obvious, but some people have some form of disorder or mental illness that can't be helped by a lay person, no matter what is offered for help. :(
See the DSM-5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5). I'm sure you can find many that fit oneself and the people you know.
It doesn't make the person bad, only needing help that you cannot provide.
Sorry if it is an inappropriate post, but knowing that your world is about to crash around you (again) and not accepting sound advice would, be (in my opinion) indicative of something wrong.
I'm sure that a final $$$ drive for a suitable solution (not a band-aid) would be supported.
Only an opinion.
Please feel free to delete this.
Edited for grammar & the like....
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Be glad you don't live in BC. Our new dictator is removing the ability to limit density from every city in the province. He plans to allow developers to put triplex on any single family lot regardless of what the neighbors or city council wants. He is also banning stratas from having rental restrictions.
This is the result of too many people creating too much demand in certain areas and refusing to move.
If they said "no, that's too much, I'm not paying that, I'm leaving", they could solve their own problem. They would also help solve the larger problem by reducing demand in areas where prices are high because of excess demand.
Instead, they refuse to change, they blame landlords and call home owners NIMBYs (not in my backyard). They demand the government changes zoning: force changes on the people who are much more commited to the area.
When people purchase properties, zoning impacts the decision and the cost. Changing that zoning is similar to breaching a contract. Breaching a contract that relates to someone's home and life savings is an awful thing to do.
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Fran’s situation reminded me of the attached saying……
Anytime I hear it, I am reminded of Dorothy Parker's quote. First time I ever saw it was a on a biker girls T-shirt...
http://www.bytesdaily.com.au/2010/08/quote-dorothy-parker.html (http://www.bytesdaily.com.au/2010/08/quote-dorothy-parker.html)
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Instead, they refuse to change, they blame landlords and call home owners NIMBYs (not in my backyard). They demand the government changes zoning: force changes on the people who are much more commited to the area.
When people purchase properties, zoning impacts the decision and the cost. Changing that zoning is similar to breaching a contract. Breaching a contract that relates to someone's home and life savings is an awful thing to do.
I'm a NIMBY, I feel perfectly entitled to be one and have absolutely no shame for it. As you say, when I purchased my property I took the zoning into consideration, I bought a single family home on a dead end street in a quiet suburban neighborhood because that's exactly the environment I desired to live in, if the zoning had allowed multifamily units or apartment towers I would not have considered this neighborhood.
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I'm a NIMBY, I feel perfectly entitled to be one and have absolutely no shame for it. As you say, when I purchased my property I took the zoning into consideration, I bought a single family home on a dead end street in a quiet suburban neighborhood because that's exactly the environment I desired to live in, if the zoning had allowed multifamily units or apartment towers I would not have considered this neighborhood.
Why do you find multifamily units objectionable?
I get apartment towers (they're ugly, sure), but a neighbourhood consisting of detached, semi-detached and small apartment units seems fine to me. What's not attractive about that?
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In a neighborhood with street parking, more units pretty directly puts more pressure on street parking. (More units per lot -> more cars per linear foot of uncut curb.)
I’ve rarely seen a neighborhood of multi family units have nice landscaping and well maintained exteriors. That is much more common in neighborhoods of SFRs.
This doesn’t make multis bad overall, but if someone bought in a neighborhood of SFRs, it’s reason to oppose zoning changes to break that.
I’ve supported every one of my neighbors’ applications for permits and variances from zoning regs. (Things like a slightly higher garage than allowed, an additional curb cut, and even one neighbor who wanted to build an ugly facade on the house.) I would oppose a variance for a conversion to higher unit count than zoning allows.
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Street parking is a whole 'nother debate. It's an interesting thing that you're just allowed to leave your car parked on the road for months on end, but you need to get a permit to put a skip there.
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It's an interesting thing that you're just allowed to leave your car parked on the road for months on end, but you need to get a permit to put a skip there.
A skip aint got road tax
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It's an interesting thing that you're just allowed to leave your car parked on the road for months on end, but you need to get a permit to put a skip there.
A skip aint got road tax
Well, neither does my plug in hybrid.
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It will do very soon >:D
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I seriously doubt that that is the truth. The Feds would call that sexual discrimination and age discrimination and quickly sue any such bank out of business. The more likely case is that Fran is simply a bad loan risk from the bank's prospective. My father, then in his 70s and single, got a 30 year mortgage loan so it certainly is possible. Provided that you have the credit, a steady income, etc. In fact, at least three single women in my family have all gotten large home loans from the banks in the last 20 or so years. One of them was nearly 70 and borrowed about $300,000 just over 2 years ago.
Your father got a mortgage that would run until he was 100 years old?
Yes, From Wells Fargo I think but then the loan was sold to some other company. I was surprised as hell too. I suppose that they may have thought that eventually he would die and they would get the house. And in the end, that is what happened. My step mother and half brother inherited the house but never made any payments after that so the bank repossessed it.
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Why do you find multifamily units objectionable?
I get apartment towers (they're ugly, sure), but a neighbourhood consisting of detached, semi-detached and small apartment units seems fine to me. What's not attractive about that?
The latter doesn't bother me so much, there's a complex adjacent to my neighborhood, 2 story apartment buildings tucked back into the trees and provided with adequate parking. It's a separate development though, it is not on my actual street. That isn't what they're building today though, now gigantic mixed used towers are all the rage, or Soviet bloc style apartment buildings packed in like sardines with the buildings just a few feet apart and nowhere near sufficient parking. They're ugly and the extremely high density results in further crowding and people parking cars all over on the side of the street. When there is one of those new complexes without enough parking around it can be hard to find a place to park near the businesses.
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Street parking is a whole 'nother debate. It's an interesting thing that you're just allowed to leave your car parked on the road for months on end, but you need to get a permit to put a skip there.
You're supposed to move it every x number of hours but in practice I've seen cars parked for weeks or in one case *years* before I finally reported it as it covered in moss and leaves and obviously derelict.
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Street parking is a whole 'nother debate. It's an interesting thing that you're just allowed to leave your car parked on the road for months on end, but you need to get a permit to put a skip there.
Gunna see more street parking as the % off EV's increase and as insurance companies walk away from providing cover from EV charging failures and fires. Already we see that in NZ with charging cables thrown over fences to run over footpaths to the roadside.
A buddy in town has a neighbour that does this each night despite them having plenty of offroad parking in their own section so nightly he diligently removes the footpath trip hazard and lobs it back to from where it came. :)
One imagines smart developers will install remote controlled roadside plinths outside each new address to cater for the future......but it should be driven by planners.....yeah right !
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Street parking is a whole 'nother debate. It's an interesting thing that you're just allowed to leave your car parked on the road for months on end, but you need to get a permit to put a skip there.
A car is entitled to park on the road, assuming there are no parking restrictions on that road, because of car tax. A skip has no tax chargeable and is a dangerous hazard, hence the permit. In London they are a bl00dy scourge.
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Gunna see more street parking as the % off EV's increase and as insurance companies walk away from providing cover from EV charging failures and fires.
Or just install fire sprinklers in residential garages.
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Gunna see more street parking as the % off EV's increase and as insurance companies walk away from providing cover from EV charging failures and fires.
Or just install fire sprinklers in residential garages.
Sprinkler water on lithium battery fires ? :scared:
They need a deluge to have any effect and good luck putting one out once it get well established.
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Or just install fire sprinklers in residential garages.
Really?
You might want to check out this news article https://www.the-sun.com/motors/6263271/tesla-burst-into-flames-firefighters/ (https://www.the-sun.com/motors/6263271/tesla-burst-into-flames-firefighters/)
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Still, the proportion of EV fires is less than that of ICE vehicles. They represent different hazards for firefighters, but overall the chance of an EV catching fire even after a serious accident is less than the chance of an ICE fire.
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Still, the proportion of EV fires is less than that of ICE vehicles. They represent different hazards for firefighters, but overall the chance of an EV catching fire even after a serious accident is less than the chance of an ICE fire.
Is that data normalised? ie, is it per/100k vehicles, or is it just a total?
Given the proportion of diesel powered ICE vehicles on the road, I suspect the latter.
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The data I've seen compared vehicles up to 5 years old and is per vehicle, so not normalised by mileage for instance. The rate of fire is considerably lower - around 1/3rd as much.
It's not fair to directly compare all ICE vehicles to battery EVs, because EVs have only been a commercially available product for about 10 years and only in the last 5 or so years have been available in larger numbers from many manufacturers. An old car is a lot more likely to be involved in a fire, especially if poorly maintained. If you compare battery EVs to all available vehicles, the rate is much better, around 1/10th that. Whether that statistic is relevant depends on whether you believe an older EV will become more of a fire risk over time; the biggest hazard is thermal runaway of the battery pack, which could be age-related, but primarily seems to be random chance due to cell shorts.
In the UK I recall seeing many videos of the old Vauxhall Zafiras catching fire... This was not actually Vauxhall's fault per se, but due to cabin fan speed controls being replaced with 3rd party knockoffs (the original controls were notorious for failure and were expensive) which did not have a temperature fuse fitted. If the fan stalled for any reason, the fan resistor would no longer be cooled, leading to a very hot source trapped inside of plastic HVAC vents.
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I'm generally a proponent of EVs but the fire issue is something that concerns me. There is a big difference between a car catching on fire out on the road somewhere where you can pull over and get out of the vehicle vs catching fire inside your garage in the middle of the night while you're asleep. The latter is a much more serious situation.
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Still, the proportion of EV fires is less than that of ICE vehicles. They represent different hazards for firefighters, but overall the chance of an EV catching fire even after a serious accident is less than the chance of an ICE fire.
No. Allianz, a German car insurance company has stated that BEVs / ICE cars have similar rates of catching fire. There is no difference there. The only difference is that a BEV needs to be submerged in water for a couple of days in order to make sure the fire is out.
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Still, the proportion of EV fires is less than that of ICE vehicles. They represent different hazards for firefighters, but overall the chance of an EV catching fire even after a serious accident is less than the chance of an ICE fire.
No. Allianz, a German car insurance company has stated that BEVs / ICE cars have similar rates of catching fire. There is no difference there. The only difference is that a BEV needs to be submerged in water for a couple of days in order to make sure the fire is out.
I suspect that has a lot to do with the cars in use in Germany; specifically, even the ICE cars being quite safe and not prone to catching fire.
For one, badly kept "matchstick" beaters not being able to pass the emissions tests and mandatory inspections, and being illegal for road use (and not insured in any case, even if they are on the road).
That said, I believe it would be more interesting to find first responders, and ask their opinion and experience, considering all facets of vehicular mishaps.
For example, I guess that not having fuel leaks is probably a plus, but is it offset by the BEV's batteries' energy density and the way they sustain a fire if they do catch on fire? Is there sufficient warning for first responders to act?
Anyway, we're straying dangerously far from the topic at hand. Apologies on my part. I do not believe FranLab's situation has anything to do with BEV/ICE safety differences.
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Still, the proportion of EV fires is less than that of ICE vehicles. They represent different hazards for firefighters, but overall the chance of an EV catching fire even after a serious accident is less than the chance of an ICE fire.
No. Allianz, a German car insurance company has stated that BEVs / ICE cars have similar rates of catching fire. There is no difference there. The only difference is that a BEV needs to be submerged in water for a couple of days in order to make sure the fire is out.
I suspect that has a lot to do with the cars in use in Germany; specifically, even the ICE cars being quite safe and not prone to catching fire.
For one, badly kept "matchstick" beaters not being able to pass the emissions tests and mandatory inspections, and being illegal for road use (and not insured in any case, even if they are on the road).
That is grasping straws ;) Realistically countries with a significant number of BEVs have mandatory safety inspections for all cars. There is not a statistically relevant number of dangerous cars on the road in such countries.
That said, I believe it would be more interesting to find first responders, and ask their opinion and experience, considering all facets of vehicular mishaps.
Those are a bad source of data because these instances typically don't keep statistics. Or even if they do, the statistics are typically useless. Insurance companies are much better at this; it is their livelyhood.
The worst source of information are the people on the workfloor. Sounds strange but their view is extremely limited and thus they lack overview on the big picture. I have made the mistake to ask people on the workfloor to help me gather design specs a couple of times and won't do that again. Straight up useless information.
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That is grasping straws ;) Realistically countries with a significant number of BEVs have mandatory safety inspections for all cars. There is not a statistically relevant number of dangerous cars on the road in such countries.
There are a lot of BEVs in the USA and most if not all of the USA has no safety inspection on cars at all, none, it is not even a thing here and never has been. The closest thing I've heard of is the headlight inspections that some states used to have. The owner is 100% responsible for ensuring that their car is properly maintained and roadworthy. You can get pulled over if you have something visibly wrong like parts dragging on the ground or falling off or lighting that is not working but your whole car could be about to break in half from rust and nobody would ever check. Remarkably, accidents caused by mechanical failure are not really something you hear about.
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I suspect that has a lot to do with the cars in use in Germany; specifically, even the ICE cars being quite safe and not prone to catching fire.
For one, badly kept "matchstick" beaters not being able to pass the emissions tests and mandatory inspections, and being illegal for road use (and not insured in any case, even if they are on the road).
That is grasping straws ;) Realistically countries with a significant number of BEVs have mandatory safety inspections for all cars. There is not a statistically relevant number of dangerous cars on the road in such countries.
All cars, you say? That is news to a significant number of residents of the United States.
Vehicle inspection requirements are by state here and only about half of the states require regular, on-going safety inspections.
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I suspect that has a lot to do with the cars in use in Germany; specifically, even the ICE cars being quite safe and not prone to catching fire.
For one, badly kept "matchstick" beaters not being able to pass the emissions tests and mandatory inspections, and being illegal for road use (and not insured in any case, even if they are on the road).
That is grasping straws ;)
Nope. You just haven't watched enough Liveleaks. :-*
(My favourite is the young chinese ironworker dude on a break, noticing the Liveleak logo in the corner, and starting to sweat.)
Realistically countries with a significant number of BEVs have mandatory safety inspections for all cars.
As others have said, they often do not.
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The owner is 100% responsible for ensuring that their car is properly maintained and roadworthy.
Which is no different in places with inspections. Except they're not naive enough to trust.
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Here in Canada, province of Ontario, we only had emission test every two years, and that was cancelled in 2021 I believe, for cars and heavy non-diesel vehicles. Basically now I do not have to do any inspections.
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In any case I am not worried about an EV catching fire. It's an insured event, and I'm much more likely to be involved in a serious car accident than I am to be involved in a random vehicle fire.
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As long as you’re charging with the car not in a garage attached to or under your home…
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Been wondering which thread to shove this into. This looks like a good spot...
(https://faceless.co.za/comics/faceless.2061.png)
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I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)
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I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)
Dual clutch boxes are not nearly as problematic as CVTs. I hate them both though, just give me a plain old fashioned manual gearbox, it's the best solution out of all of them. Simple, direct, versatile, reliable and efficient.
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In any case I am not worried about an EV catching fire. It's an insured event, and I'm much more likely to be involved in a serious car accident than I am to be involved in a random vehicle fire.
I don't know about you, but if my house burned down insurance would only cover a small fraction of my belongings. They might give me some money for the other stuff but so much of it is vintage/one-off stuff that is irreplaceable that money can't replace. If I had a newer more easily replaced car and it burned up on the side of the road insurance could replace it with a comparable car. If my car caught fire in the garage attached to my house and set the house on fire that would be a catastrophe.
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I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)
:-//
Multiple plate clutches have been used successfully in all manner of gear for 50+ years that I remember.
Trucks, tractors, race cars etc. Have modern designers no link to historical designs ?
Or do they just reinvent the wheel that already works just to break it ?
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Dual clutch boxes are not nearly as problematic as CVTs.
Toyota CVTs almost never fail.
I don't know about you, but if my house burned down insurance would only cover a small fraction of my belongings. They might give me some money for the other stuff but so much of it is vintage/one-off stuff that is irreplaceable that money can't replace. If I had a newer more easily replaced car and it burned up on the side of the road insurance could replace it with a comparable car. If my car caught fire in the garage attached to my house and set the house on fire that would be a catastrophe.
Remember the time 20 years ago when Ford was infamous for catching fire at random? That should have been a good reason to install fire sprinklers in residential garages.
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In any case I am not worried about an EV catching fire. It's an insured event,
You do realise that insurance companies are like casinos? The house always wins! In case of insurances: the lower the risk, the less money you have to pay. IOW: Insurance companies are not in the business of handing out free money to allow people to do stupid things. Also, if somebody's car causes damage to you or your property, you better hope the owner has the car insured. Otherwise you'll be out of luck... Your own insurance won't cover such an event.
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Remember the time 20 years ago when Ford was infamous for catching fire at random? That should have been a good reason to install fire sprinklers in residential garages.
You still need to take into account the massive difference between an ICE car catching fire and a BEV. A BEV will burn without oxygen. To put out an ICE car on fire, it is enough to simply shut the fire doors in order to cut off the oxygen supply. If you look carefully at enclosed / underground parking garages, you'll notice that these are divided into sections with steel sliding doors. A sprinkler system is another option and something you'll see both combined.
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Oh it's insured! :-DD
Wonder what it all has to do with Fran though...
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Oh it's insured! :-DD
Wonder what it all has to do with Fran though...
Fucking heaps more interesting. :P
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I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)
Yeah, the one in my plug in hybrid worries me every time it takes just a fraction longer to shift into reverse. One time I had to wait about 2 seconds for it to find it, but it hasn't done that for a while. I don't know if that's normal or if I'm paranoid about an expensive repair if something in the very complex hybrid drive goes bad (the car has three clutches, one additional for the engine so that the motor only can drive the wheels.) In comparison, an EV seems so much simpler, though a lot of the risk is transferred into the battery pack.
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You do realise that insurance companies are like casinos? The house always wins! In case of insurances: the lower the risk, the less money you have to pay. IOW: Insurance companies are not in the business of handing out free money to allow people to do stupid things. Also, if somebody's car causes damage to you or your property, you better hope the owner has the car insured. Otherwise you'll be out of luck... Your own insurance won't cover such an event.
Insurance is only there to cover things that would be too expensive to reasonably cover yourself by pooling risk with others. The average motor insurer in the UK actually loses a bit on every premium when claims and admin costs are considered (they make it up by investing your premium for that year.)
Building insurance in the UK covers your property regardless of the cause. I don't know about the situation in the EU but I was curious about whether the owner of the flat in the Grenfell Tower block would be liable for all the other properties destroyed, but the answer is no, it is each individual owner's responsibility to insure their flat's contents, and those without insurance are SOL. This makes sense, because it could burden one insurer with millions of pounds of claims for a £50 a year policy, though I suppose reinsurance exists in some cases, it does not apply here.
And if EVs were at a tremendous risk of fire then their premiums would be high, but my PHEV (which has a well-used 6.8kWh Li-Ion battery, which is charged at 45kW during regen and discharged at 80kW under acceleration) has lower premiums than any car I've ever owned. I've seen one car like it destroyed by fire, and that appeared to be arson or an accident, as the interior was destroyed but the battery-engine areas were ok. I am really, genuinely sure it's not a big risk. Sure, the fire fighters are going to have to get better techniques for dealing with electric vehicle fires when they do happen, but removing combustible fuels, most oil and a very high temperature engine/exhaust system is almost certainly a benefit. You have to worry about battery chemistry only then.
My father had his old Mercedes W140 burn to the ground after parking it up. The cause of the fire was never determined, but it oddly happened several hours after it was standing. I wonder if it was a slow leak of oil onto the exhaust, perhaps as something cooled down some seal let go. Vehicles are complex machines, and fire is always a risk with such a machine. It is however a risk that is not in my mind when driving one. It's a lot more likely something expensive will go wrong way before it actually catches fire. Especially if it's German.
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Trying to keep this on-topic:
Saw in a recent video that Fran is having problems with the neighbors who are smoking and using ozone generators to cover it up. She showed a rubber glove that had been eaten away by the ozone in her apartment. So now her health is at risk :scared:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc6gDtjixuQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc6gDtjixuQ)
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Ozone is toxic. If there's enough to be a concern, she should just have someone measure ozone levels officially in the building and take legal action.
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in the UK recently there has been media concern regarding a child death caused (allegedly) by an infection linked to mold in a damp room - my lay understanding of these ozone generators was that they could be used, in such rooms, with obvious precautions to remove animals and electronic equipment from the area.
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in the UK recently there has been media concern regarding a child death caused (allegedly) by an infection linked to mold in a damp room - my lay understanding of these ozone generators was that they could be used, in such rooms, with obvious precautions to remove animals and electronic equipment from the area.
Yep, and are routinely used to e.g. remove mold and odors in cars. If you include ion generation (which typically happens with ozone generation anyway), the ions also precipitate particles (dust, spores, pollutants etc.) from the air to surfaces. Ozone generators are specifically to be used when no humans or animals are present. None. In typical apartment buildings, you'd need to fully block all ventilation, to use them safely.
This is one of the behavioural patterns you just have to deal with, when you live in an apartment building –– even if you owned yours (shareholder in the building, I mean). Some people just don't care about others, and never even think twice about putting them in danger. And most people are rather stupid, and don't even know when they are putting themselves, their pets, and neighbors in danger. Try to educate them, and you become a target. I've moved because of this myself.
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You do realise that insurance companies are like casinos? The house always wins! In case of insurances: the lower the risk, the less money you have to pay. IOW: Insurance companies are not in the business of handing out free money to allow people to do stupid things. Also, if somebody's car causes damage to you or your property, you better hope the owner has the car insured. Otherwise you'll be out of luck... Your own insurance won't cover such an event.
Insurance is only there to cover things that would be too expensive to reasonably cover yourself by pooling risk with others. The average motor insurer in the UK actually loses a bit on every premium when claims and admin costs are considered (they make it up by investing your premium for that year.)
So they still make a profit which validates my point. The house always wins!
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The average motor insurer in the UK actually loses a bit on every premium when claims and admin costs are considered (they make it up by investing your premium for that year.)
So they still make a profit which validates my point. The house always wins!
I suspect they get a better return on investing a huge sum than individual people would investing a huge number of small sums, so in a way they are doing us a favour!
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Trying to keep this on-topic:
Saw in a recent video that Fran is having problems with the neighbors who are smoking and using ozone generators to cover it up. She showed a rubber glove that had been eaten away by the ozone in her apartment. So now her health is at risk :scared:
So much confirmation (NOT!), that her choice of where to live (location and the specific building she chose), still have one or more, apparently 'nasty' people, potentially causing her difficulties and even possibly damage to her health.
That's the thing about if she owned her own, house (or similar), property somewhere. Nonsense like that (other people causing Ozone dangers), should be much, much less likely to occur (assuming the houses are separate/detached and don't have any shared usage spaces).
As far as I'm aware. Living in factory (like) units, is strongly discouraged, and/or NOT allowed by laws and regulations, in the UK.
Some (small) shops, have rooms/flats (typically) above the ground floor shop unit. Where either the shop owner(s) can live, or they can rent it out.
But this (apparent) concept, of mixed use factory (and living in the factory unit), doesn't seem to be something I've heard about in the UK.
But in the UK, you can get houses/homes, with connected/external workshops/studio units, which is at least, partly similar.
Usually, if people are living in part of a factory unit, it perhaps means some kind of illegal activities, such as people smuggling, is going on.
The UK's health and safety laws and stuff, makes it difficult, to fulfill all the regulations and laws, if it was used as a living space, as well. Also the planning application, would be difficult to get approval for.
E.g. If a perfectly legal UK house/home household, decided to let people live in their (unmodified) garage and/or caravan in the garden. That could cause big trouble with the authorities.
Even if you own a strip of land, you CAN'T legally live there (even in a caravan), without the correct planning application approvals.
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Ozone is toxic. If there's enough to be a concern, she should just have someone measure ozone levels officially in the building and take legal action.
Or buy an ozone meter first. Maybe it is useful to determine where the ozone is entering the apartment by measuring changes in concentration. A can of PU foam to fill / seal cracks between the apartments costs little and likely solves the issue. It would make an interesting video as well.
Early laser printers also produced quite a bit of ozone. At one of the companies I worked as an intern the offices where on the first floor. That entire floor was drenched in ozone. Fortunately I spend my days in the repair department at the ground floor.
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You guys not concerned about ozonized health of the poor smoker ? ::)
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You guys not concerned about ozonized health of the poor smoker ? ::)
If we were, what would expect us to do about it?
In fact, millions of people are exposed to ozone and tobacco smoke everyday and there's very little that we can do about those either.
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You guys not concerned about ozonized health of the poor smoker ? ::)
I'm not at all, not if they're the ones both smoking and using ozone generators, both of which are a personal choice.
Ozone is great stuff for disinfecting and removing odors but you don't want to use it while anyone is in the space.
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So much confirmation (NOT!), that her choice of where to live (location and the specific building she chose), still have one or more, apparently 'nasty' people, potentially causing her difficulties and even possibly damage to her health.
That's the thing about if she owned her own, house (or similar), property somewhere. Nonsense like that (other people causing Ozone dangers), should be much, much less likely to occur (assuming the houses are separate/detached and don't have any shared usage spaces).
As far as I'm aware. Living in factory (like) units, is strongly discouraged, and/or NOT allowed by laws and regulations, in the UK.
Some (small) shops, have rooms/flats (typically) above the ground floor shop unit. Where either the shop owner(s) can live, or they can rent it out.
But this (apparent) concept, of mixed use factory (and living in the factory unit), doesn't seem to be something I've heard about in the UK.
Her new FranLab 3.0 is not a factory or mixed use space as the Franlab 2.0 lab that was demolished around here was, it's a regular apartment building.
There are no more affordable mixed-use spaces available in Philly, they are all being lost to gentrification.
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I'm more concerned about the overcomplicated dual clutch transmissions in many newer cars breaking down, quite a few of them being infamous for problems early on. (Probably not as much of a concern in Europe where manual transmissions are still common.)
:-//
Multiple plate clutches have been used successfully in all manner of gear for 50+ years that I remember.
Trucks, tractors, race cars etc. Have modern designers no link to historical designs ?
Or do they just reinvent the wheel that already works just to break it ?
DCTs are not multiple clutch plates, they are multiple independent clutches. The potential issue is the controls, rather than the clutches themselves.
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Her new FranLab 3.0 is not a factory or mixed use space as the Franlab 2.0 lab that was demolished around here was, it's a regular apartment building.
There are no more affordable mixed-use spaces available in Philly, they are all being lost to gentrification.
Thanks, I didn't know/realize that (My Excuse: Because Fran kept on repeatedly/regularly having these housing crises, so after spending time/interest following the original one, like others, I've sort of backed away, when their other housing crises things happened).
So, it does seem that they are being way too stubborn/inflexible and/or in denial about overcoming any psychological hesitations/hiccups, for moving into considerably more affordable accommodation and/or too short-sighted, about the situation.
But, short of 100 of us (Forum/Fran-Youtube-followers) getting together, and holding daily demonstrations, with huge banners, outside where they are currently situated. We are probably not going to get anywhere, as they are free to do what they like.
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DCTs are not multiple clutch plates, they are multiple independent clutches. The potential issue is the controls, rather than the clutches themselves.
Yes... unlike a regular auto the clutches are precision controlled, it needs to slip the clutch for some time to do a hill start for instance, like any manual driver does. They are rather good at doing it, but prone to developing a judder if their calibration goes out. (The transmission computer does continuously recalibrate, so this usually stops after driving for a bit, but it's a little unnerving.)
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So, it does seem that they are being way too stubborn/inflexible and/or in denial about overcoming any psychological hesitations/hiccups, for moving into considerably more affordable accommodation and/or too short-sighted, about the situation.
I think I mentioned this a few crisis ago, but I suspect there is a dependency that links her to that city that is being kept from the external world. Either a friend, elder/sick relative or even anything medical or vice related.
As with the other crisis, we can only speculate.
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I think I mentioned this a few crisis ago, but I suspect there is a dependency that links her to that city that is being kept from the external world. Either a friend, elder/sick relative or even anything medical or vice related. As with the other crisis, we can only speculate.
As someone who corresponds privately with Fran a lot about this, there is nothing hidden, she has been completely open about the reasons, no need to speculate. The two primary reasons being trans safety and that she loves the downtown Philly lifestyle. Both are completely understandable of course, and she has been and still is making it work financially. So from her point of view, there is no reason to make changes.
She has lived in other small towns in Pennsylvania and other states and does not want to go back. Her mind is made up, it's downtown Philly or bust.
I'm sure if the Patreon income drops and another appeal fails to lift the income then she will do what she said and shut down the factory first, and then probably the storage rooms progressively.
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On the other side of the pond Big Clive loves ozone generators.
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On the other side of the pond Big Clive loves ozone generators.
For cupboard and fridge and similar use, yes. They kill mold (something that is a constant problem at Isle of Man, where Big Clive lives, due to the climate) and bacteria. They also only put out trace amounts ("microscopic amounts" as Big Clive says) of ozone in the air, unlike room deodorizes, what we're talking about here.
Big Clive on ozone:
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ymcJ9qKC7I)
Big Clive on a room ozone deodorizer:
Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K816PVC3nho)
Ozone is one of those gases that you do want in air in trace amounts, but not too much. And the amounts Big Clive recommends are absolutely minimal, not enough to cover any indoor smoking. The room deodorizers, on the other hand, use large amounts of ozone to have an effect; and it is these large amounts that are detrimental, not the trace amounts.
A proper analogy here would be using a tealight, or an open flame. One is pretty safe emissions-wise, the other is extremely dangerous in closed spaces due to carbon dioxide, particle emissions, and possibly carbon monoxide produced.
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I've used those big ozone generators several times to get rid of odors in cars, they work really well for that. You obviously should not be in the car when one is running though, after shutting off the generator the ozone dissipates fairly quickly.
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I've used those big ozone generators several times to get rid of odors in cars, they work really well for that. You obviously should not be in the car when one is running though, after shutting off the generator the ozone dissipates fairly quickly.
When used in hotels etc., the ozone will diffuse easily through the ventilation system, unless isolated. It will also dissipate within half an hour or so after the generator is turned off, as the ozone molecules decay (into oxygen and oxides on the surface of whatever they react with).
And that's the problem in Fran's case as well: the neighbors probably leave the apartment (unless they're real tar-lungs who don't even detect the difference in their breathing), and care not a whit about the health risks they're generating for their neighbors.
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Yeah I'm not suggesting Fran's neighbors are using ozone generators in a reasonable manner, I'm only saying there's nothing inherently wrong with ozone generators, when used properly under the right circumstances they are very effective.
They're good for getting weird odors out of clothing and bedding too, just stuff it in a box or hang it in a closed room with the ozone generator and let it run for a bit.
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I'm only saying there's nothing inherently wrong with ozone generators, when used properly under the right circumstances they are very effective.
Fully agreed :-+
And I included the Big Clive videos above, because he also definitely agrees. He also likes to use ion generators to help precipitate impurities (particulates like dust and woofle fireball remnants) out of the air and onto surfaces. No crystal magic or healing mumbo-jumbo, just basic atmospheric physics/chemistry.
Proper use is key. And the fact Fran's gloves are deteriorating (I guess similar chemical degradation that happens due to UV to plastics), shows her neighbors definitely don't care about proper use. I don't buy even ignorance here, because these devices do tend to come with very specific usage information.
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I don't buy even ignorance here, because these devices do tend to come with very specific usage information.
You're assuming they actually read that information, I suspect the sort of people that are causing the problem either didn't read it at all or blew it off as yet another exaggerated warning.
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I don't buy even ignorance here, because these devices do tend to come with very specific usage information.
Perhaps they don't realise that fumigating their room will affect anyone else. After all, one assumes that homes are self-contained once inside the doors.
Edit: I recall doing something similar (to get rid of pests) in a bedroom, and we shoved the thing (spray, not ozone) in there, closed the door and that's it. Afterwards we opened the window then an hour later it's clear. During all that we're happy to be pottering around the house in rooms below and next to that bedroom, so surely some other household would be oblivious.
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Very plausible, james_s and PlainName. After all, people often kill themselves out of stupidity, too. In comparison, considering ones effects on others, must be Advanced Magickery and Unrealisticness to such folks. Even more reason to expose them before they actually harm someone, eh?
(Sprays and aerosols do not diffuse as easily as gases like ozone do, though.)
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I don't buy even ignorance here, because these devices do tend to come with very specific usage information.
You're assuming they actually read that information, I suspect the sort of people that are causing the problem either didn't read it at all or blew it off as yet another exaggerated warning.
Don't understimate human stupidity, ignorance, or mallice.
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Don't understimate human stupidity, ignorance, or mallice.
Every winter there are stories about people that die from CO poisoning caused by running a charcoal bbq in the house or a gasoline powered generator in the garage during a power outage. You'd think it would be common knowledge not to do this and yet people do. Ozone is considerably less dangerous than carbon monoxide.
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I always assumed the charcoal BBQ incidents were intentional suicide or murder-suicide. The more smokeless heaters or a generator I can more understand as stupidity, but a charcoal grill? Come on…
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I always assumed the charcoal BBQ incidents were intentional suicide or murder-suicide. The more smokeless heaters or a generator I can more understand as stupidity, but a charcoal grill? Come on…
Usually it's immigrants that came from places where homes are not nearly as well sealed as they are in most developed nations.
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I always assumed the charcoal BBQ incidents were intentional suicide or murder-suicide. The more smokeless heaters or a generator I can more understand as stupidity, but a charcoal grill? Come on…
Here, misuse of saunas is a bit of a problem, as some use it to dry their clothes with the kiuas/heater on, which can set the clothes on fire.
It's not as common as drunk people making a late night snack (typically frozen pizza or sausage fries, "makkaraperunat"), falling asleep, and having the fire alarm go off, though.
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I always assumed the charcoal BBQ incidents were intentional suicide or murder-suicide. The more smokeless heaters or a generator I can more understand as stupidity, but a charcoal grill? Come on…
Here, misuse of saunas is a bit of a problem, as some use it to dry their clothes with the kiuas/heater on, which can set the clothes on fire.
It's not as common as drunk people making a late night snack (typically frozen pizza or sausage fries, "makkaraperunat"), falling asleep, and having the fire alarm go off, though.
Finland sounds awesome!
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I always assumed the charcoal BBQ incidents were intentional suicide or murder-suicide. The more smokeless heaters or a generator I can more understand as stupidity, but a charcoal grill? Come on…
Here, misuse of saunas is a bit of a problem, as some use it to dry their clothes with the kiuas/heater on, which can set the clothes on fire.
It's not as common as drunk people making a late night snack (typically frozen pizza or sausage fries, "makkaraperunat"), falling asleep, and having the fire alarm go off, though.
Finland sounds awesome!
You only need to watch some "Beyond The Press" or "Pommijätkät" videos on YouTube to confirm that!
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Finnish culture is not one of the urban ones for sure. All I can say that if you like the idea of spending time with friends without having to talk all the time, or if you think a quick hello or a nod is sufficient small-talk in most situations, and you like drinking lots of ordinary coffee, you might find Finnish culture a good fit.
As I understand it, in USA there are a lot of cultural variance between different areas, with people moving to places where they feel they fit better. Maybe it's climate, maybe it is taxation, maybe it is the local customs/ways of living.. which is why it sounds so strange to hear Fran say it's Philly or bust.
Bigger cities tend to have the least variation. I fear her preconceptions may be blocking her from happiness and much reduced stress elsewhere.
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Finnish culture is not one of the urban ones for sure. All I can say that if you like the idea of spending time with friends without having to talk all the time, or if you think a quick hello or a nod is sufficient small-talk in most situations, and you like drinking lots of ordinary coffee, you might find Finnish culture a good fit.
As I understand it, in USA there are a lot of cultural variance between different areas.
That is even true inside small countries.
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As I understand it, in USA there are a lot of cultural variance between different areas, with people moving to places where they feel they fit better. Maybe it's climate, maybe it is taxation, maybe it is the local customs/ways of living.. which is why it sounds so strange to hear Fran say it's Philly or bust.
Bigger cities tend to have the least variation. I fear her preconceptions may be blocking her from happiness and much reduced stress elsewhere.
It's true. The USA is very large and very diverse, there is something for everyone, especially once you get off the beaten path.
What's strange to me is hearing anyone actively choose Philly over.. just about anywhere. I mean I guess I'd probably pick it over Detroit but both are some of the most dangerous areas in the whole country. Frankly the gentrification is probably a good thing ultimately, crime infested crapholes will get cleaned up and be made livable.
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Not sure I understand the gentrification in such a horrific context though? It must not be that bad?
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Finnish culture is not one of the urban ones for sure. All I can say that if you like the idea of spending time with friends without having to talk all the time, or if you think a quick hello or a nod is sufficient small-talk in most situations, and you like drinking lots of ordinary coffee, you might find Finnish culture a good fit.
As I understand it, in USA there are a lot of cultural variance between different areas.
That is even true inside small countries.
In Finland, too, most definitely. It just sounds to me like Fran is overgeneralising bad past experiences as if they were indicative of everywhere else but Philly, to me. :-//
Something similar happens in Finland, especially Helsinki, all the time. Young people move to Helsinki to go to the University, and for the first time, they are anonymous, with nobody commenting on how they dress or behave, or keeping track or talking about what they do. They associate that with Helsinki (or Turku or Tampere or Oulu), instead of early adulthood. This leads to young adults, who reject their cultural roots, like our current prime minister who says she doesn't feel herself "Finnish", and doesn't even know what that term means. (She is from an LBTQ+ family, by the way.) That leads to people feeling insecure and relying on their social group, and projecting everything negative they perceive in their own life as negatives that somehow apply to the entire Finnish culture and Finland –– except for their city, or even borough, like Kallio in particular in Helsinki. They see everyone outside their current social circle as dangerous enemies to be opposed, and for what? Not for happiness, that's for sure.
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Not sure I understand the gentrification in such a horrific context though? It must not be that bad?
People with money move in, tear down cheap houses and build more expensive ones. This can result in a general improvement, but it also displaces people who can only afford to rent/buy the cheap houses and often reduces the housing supply. Nobody likes being pushed out of their neighborhood by rising housing costs and lack of rental availability.
Things change. Over time gentrification might turn a crime-ridden cesspool into a nice community. Other times it just pushes lower-income people out. Often it does both.
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Things change. Over time gentrification might turn a crime-ridden cesspool into a nice community. Other times it just pushes lower-income people out. Often it does both.
Often they are one and the same. Obviously not everyone poor is a criminal, but poor areas overall have much higher crime than wealthier areas, that is pretty much universal. It's pretty hard to get wealthy off a life of petty crime.
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Not sure I understand the gentrification in such a horrific context though? It must not be that bad?
People with money move in, tear down cheap houses and build more expensive ones. This can result in a general improvement, but it also displaces people who can only afford to rent/buy the cheap houses and often reduces the housing supply. Nobody likes being pushed out of their neighborhood by rising housing costs and lack of rental availability.
Things change. Over time gentrification might turn a crime-ridden cesspool into a nice community. Other times it just pushes lower-income people out. Often it does both.
Gentrification isn't too bad as long as you own your own property but if you rent then your costs are going to go up, up and up until you are priced out of that area. That's the position Fran is in. At least if you buy before the price went up then you can make a tidy profit, but if you rent you get nothing. Except being forced out.
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Gentrification isn't too bad as long as you own your own property but if you rent then your costs are going to go up, up and up until you are priced out of that area. That's the position Fran is in. At least if you buy before the price went up then you can make a tidy profit, but if you rent you get nothing. Except being forced out.
That's just the reality of renting. If you rent, you can't count on living in the same place forever, in fact you can pretty much count on having to move at some point. A person that plans to rent their whole life had better be flexible on location.
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Gentrification isn't too bad as long as you own your own property but if you rent then your costs are going to go up, up and up until you are priced out of that area. That's the position Fran is in. At least if you buy before the price went up then you can make a tidy profit, but if you rent you get nothing. Except being forced out.
That's just the reality of renting. If you rent, you can't count on living in the same place forever, in fact you can pretty much count on having to move at some point. A person that plans to rent their whole life had better be flexible on location.
Yes. Only way you are going to avoid problems is by having a good income to keep pace with the rental price growth in the area. But having a good income usually means that you can afford to buy a place.
Fran actually has what would be considered a decent high income. Her expenses alone last year were $70k and projected to go higher this year, and she is able top pay that. So after taxes she has to be earning something approaching $100k.
That's a lot of money. Median household income in Pennsylvania is just over $63k
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/PA/INC110220 (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/PA/INC110220)
She seems to be in the upper earning bracket.
https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Pennsylvania (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Pennsylvania)
She has lived in other smaller parts of Pennsylvania before and she survived. Don't see why she can't do that again.
If you like Phily, live within say a 30min drive so you can visit and hang out all the time.
It sucks that the structure of her income won't let her get a home loan, but even if it did, she'd still be in the same problem if she insisted on buy in downtown Philly.
The apartment rental issue might go away if she could buy one, but the two storaghe units and factory problem remain.
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Well there are signs of the real estate market "crashing" in many western countries, so if she can wait for a bit, there may be some affordable stuff to buy. The problem will still be getting a loan unless she can pay cash, which she probably can't. Now I've heard of some organizations that can help independent workers getting home loans - dunno if there are any in her area, but that's worth a look.
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Well there are signs of the real estate market "crashing" in many western countries, so if she can wait for a bit, there may be some affordable stuff to buy. The problem will still be getting a loan unless she can pay cash, which she probably can't. Now I've heard of some organizations that can help independent workers getting home loans - dunno if there are any in her area, but that's worth a look.
The problem is that the interest rates are rising quickly as well so people can borrow less money. In the end the best thing Fran can do right now is get rid of most of her expenses and save money for a couple of years. If she earns about $100k a year as Dave suspects then saving $50k a year is not out of the question so getting enough money for a significant downpayment to get her own place is easy to do. From there on it is all unicorns and rainbows.
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Well there are signs of the real estate market "crashing" in many western countries, so if she can wait for a bit, there may be some affordable stuff to buy. The problem will still be getting a loan unless she can pay cash, which she probably can't. Now I've heard of some organizations that can help independent workers getting home loans - dunno if there are any in her area, but that's worth a look.
I'd also be looking at trying to structure the business in way that it at least looks like she's drawing a wage.
Maybe setup some non-profit through a trust and take a wage as an employee or something.
With the intent that if the banks don't dig deep enough to find out, that's their problem ;D
The thing is, you want to do that right now with a view to having a years worth of stable wage statements.
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The problem is that the interest rates are rising quickly as well so people can borrow less money. In the end the best thing Fran can do right now is get rid of most of her expenses and save money for a couple of years. If she earns about $100k a year as Dave suspects then saving $50k a year is not out of the question so getting enough money for a significant downpayment to get her own place is easy to do. From there on it is all unicorns and rainbows.
Agreed.
Continue to live in the partment in Philly, but consolidate the two storage spaces and the workshop outside of the city, with the intent of saving as much cash as possible for a couple of years.
Drive there to get stuff and do videos on site if needed.
Heck, she might even be able to find a fan who has a big spare barn or something she can rent cheap. All she has to do is put the call out and someone will offer something or find something. As I've always said, crowd source a solution. You'll get 99% unhelpful suggestions, but you only need one to be a winner.
We'd need to know the expense breakdown of the storage units and factory though.
She said the factory would be the first to go. Not sure if that's because it's the biggest expense or because it's used the least. I suspect the latter. For reference, she said she didn't visit the factory once during the 18 month lockdown, but still had to pay rent. And her channel and content during that time did just fine.
She could also consider a channel pivot to stuff that she can readily do in her apartment/FranLab, like she did during the lockdown.
If she has to travel 30min or an hour each way to a storage space to get something once a week, no big deal.
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Well there are signs of the real estate market "crashing" in many western countries, so if she can wait for a bit, there may be some affordable stuff to buy. The problem will still be getting a loan unless she can pay cash, which she probably can't. Now I've heard of some organizations that can help independent workers getting home loans - dunno if there are any in her area, but that's worth a look.
I'd also be looking at trying to structure the business in way that it at least looks like she's drawing a wage.
Maybe setup some non-profit through a trust and take a wage as an employee or something.
With the intent that if the banks don't dig deep enough to find out, that's their problem ;D
The thing is, you want to do that right now with a view to having a years worth of stable wage statements.
Sure, problem is that getting a decent wage (decent enough to convince banks for a loan) is going to cost a lot of her income. Not sure about over there, but over here various taxes employers have to pay are gigantic. May not be as bad in the US, but still, she would likely have to make significantly more than she currently does.
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Sure, problem is that getting a decent wage (decent enough to convince banks for a loan) is going to cost a lot of her income. Not sure about over there, but over here various taxes employers have to pay are gigantic. May not be as bad in the US, but still, she would likely have to make significantly more than she currently does.
Simple. All the money goes inot the non-profit. She draws near 100% of the company income from the non-profit as a wage. The non-profit earns nothing so pays no tax. She pays tax as a wage earner.
She wouldn't (or shouldn't) pay more, it's just a matter of structure.
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And why leave such an idyllic landscape. Opportunities simply abound:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/3oaXQCqtpg1i/ (https://www.bitchute.com/video/3oaXQCqtpg1i/)
Filthadelphia starts at around 7:47
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Well there are signs of the real estate market "crashing" in many western countries, so if she can wait for a bit, there may be some affordable stuff to buy. The problem will still be getting a loan unless she can pay cash, which she probably can't. Now I've heard of some organizations that can help independent workers getting home loans - dunno if there are any in her area, but that's worth a look.
LOL! Don't count on a "housing market crash" to benefit you as a non-WEALTHY home buyer or as a renter! I've been through several of the big market crashes and the only real affect that I've seen is that some of the new or very newish UBER-expensive houses drop in value but I've never seen rental rates drop or a drop in the price of low to moderate priced houses. The news media like to act like the sky is falling but for most people the "housing market crashes" are a big nothing burger.
The usual result of such crashes is that builders slow down building new expensive homes and within a few years there is a shortage of houses and that ripples down through the home market and eventually creates more demand for rentals. And in 7 to 10 years there is a serious shortage of rentals and the rental rates go up dramatically. All of central and south Florida is going through a real crisis in the availability and costs of rental property right now (down 20+% and up 25+% respectively in the past year) but at the same time, the new housing starts are ZERO there. (They don't build cheap or moderately priced homes here. Everything they build is at the very top of the market price range.)
We recently looked at one new development that was under construction before everything started grinding to halt, and the starting price was $440,000 PLUS and that was for one section of a quadplex (four houses under one roof) sandwiched between a busy expressway and a very busy highway. I think they were around 1650 ft2 and certainly nothing fancy.
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Here in a suburb about 10 miles from Seattle there is a "low income" development a couple miles from me which is a mobile home park of the sort where people own their lots. Over the summer I remember seeing a new doublewide on a corner lot with hardly any land was $500k. I bought my own house back in 2004 and even during the 2008 housing crisis it never dropped down to what I paid for it.
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Sure, problem is that getting a decent wage (decent enough to convince banks for a loan) is going to cost a lot of her income. Not sure about over there, but over here various taxes employers have to pay are gigantic. May not be as bad in the US, but still, she would likely have to make significantly more than she currently does.
Simple. All the money goes inot the non-profit. She draws near 100% of the company income from the non-profit as a wage. The non-profit earns nothing so pays no tax. She pays tax as a wage earner.
She wouldn't (or shouldn't) pay more, it's just a matter of structure.
I am not sure this would fly. Say there is a question in the credit line or mortgage application: " Are you self-employed?". What in this case Fran's answer would be?
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I am not sure this would fly. Say there is a question in the credit line or mortgage application: " Are you self-employed?". What in this case Fran's answer would be?
If Fran-the-Person works for Fran-the-Person, she is self-employed.
If Fran-the-Person works for FranLab, Inc., she is not self-employed, IMO, but rather is an employee of FranLab, Inc.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center (https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center)
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Again I don't know about the US laws for employers exactly, but over here and others parts of the world, employers have to pay taxes on employees. The net wage gotten by the employee is only a fraction of what the employers pays for them in the end. So it's not just a matter of not paying taxes on the company's benefits (that you could indeed avoid using various tricks including creating a non-profit organization or some other scheme). Employers' taxes are particularly bad over here (with all the social taxes) and it gets to nearly *twice* the net wage. It's probably a lot less than this in the US. But if you want to have a status of *employee*, then you don't have a choice. Over here it would cost almost twice the net wage. In the US, I guess it's not that bad.
That means that in some countries, for a given revenue, you'll get a bigger chunk of it with an independent status than if you become an employee. But of course you get less protection as an independent worker. I'm certainly "burnt" by the horrible cost of employment over here. Yep, for say a net 3000 eur/month wage, the company has to shell out nearly 6000 eur.
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Well there are signs of the real estate market "crashing" in many western countries, so if she can wait for a bit, there may be some affordable stuff to buy. The problem will still be getting a loan unless she can pay cash, which she probably can't. Now I've heard of some organizations that can help independent workers getting home loans - dunno if there are any in her area, but that's worth a look.
I doubt the market will ever properly crash though. What will happen is due to rate rises it'll become harder to buy somewhere for average / low income people. Property prices will remain high as long as supply continues to lag demand and this is the case in nearly every urban and suburban area in the western world.
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Property is unlikely to crash in terms of affordability. It will have cycles in terms of nominal purchase price.
The affordability problem has to be looked at with at least one eye on the competition among marginal buyers, whether prospective owner-occupants or landlords.
If a prospective owner-occupant has less financial resources than the typical “competition” for a given type of house, they’re going to get outbid in a supply-constrained market, whether mortgages are 3%, 13%, or 23%.
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Again I don't know about the US laws for employers exactly, but over here and others parts of the world, employers have to pay taxes on employees. The net wage gotten by the employee is only a fraction of what the employers pays for them in the end.
A fraction? That can't be right.
Here it's 5.1% "payroll tax" but only if you have over $1.2M in wages.
https://www.payrolltax.gov.au/resources#resources__rates_and_thresholds (https://www.payrolltax.gov.au/resources#resources__rates_and_thresholds)
There are other small costs but it's basically no big deal.
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I am not sure this would fly. Say there is a question in the credit line or mortgage application: " Are you self-employed?". What in this case Fran's answer would be?
If Fran-the-Person works for Fran-the-Person, she is self-employed.
If Fran-the-Person works for FranLab, Inc., she is not self-employed, IMO, but rather is an employee of FranLab, Inc.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center (https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center)
I think Fran has said in the past that's not how it works with the bank, and they are ones that make the rules in who they lend too. It's a matter of how deep they dig.
Here you can potentially hide behind a trust that owns a company that employs you.
Although here I don't have a major probem getting a loan being the sole director of my own company, although it is treated differently to being employed by a large company that you aren't a director of.
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Again I don't know about the US laws for employers exactly, but over here and others parts of the world, employers have to pay taxes on employees. The net wage gotten by the employee is only a fraction of what the employers pays for them in the end. So it's not just a matter of not paying taxes on the company's benefits (that you could indeed avoid using various tricks including creating a non-profit organization or some other scheme). Employers' taxes are particularly bad over here (with all the social taxes) and it gets to nearly *twice* the net wage. It's probably a lot less than this in the US. But if you want to have a status of *employee*, then you don't have a choice. Over here it would cost almost twice the net wage. In the US, I guess it's not that bad.
That means that in some countries, for a given revenue, you'll get a bigger chunk of it with an independent status than if you become an employee. But of course you get less protection as an independent worker. I'm certainly "burnt" by the horrible cost of employment over here. Yep, for say a net 3000 eur/month wage, the company has to shell out nearly 6000 eur.
The short answer on US tax law is that self-employed people get the honor of paying both halves (the employers AND the employees) of the social security and medicare taxes on profits of $400 or more. Which makes it perfect for those who just have a low-key side-hustle. Or a hobby that occasionally makes a couple bucks on the side.
The long answer is it's complicated, but often the right form of incorporation can save some serious bucks at tax time. It also may help protect your personal assets from corporate liabilities, should things go badly. Naturally there's a lot more paperwork and bother.
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The long answer is it's complicated, but often the right form of incorporation can save some serious bucks at tax time. But naturally there's a lot more paperwork and bother.
I've spoken with Fran about it before and she doesn't seem that willing to investigate options here, as she seems to think the banks still won't touch her anyway. If that's true then you wouldn't bother of course. But I can't help but think there is a way...
And being the US, just moving states seems to make a huge difference in the way things are done. That's just not really a thing here in Australia.
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In Fran's current business situation, her spending exceeds her income right now. No profits to tax, so no big tax bills.
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In Fran's current business situation, her spending exceeds her income right now. No profits to tax, so no big tax bills.
She has mentioned that tax is a sizeable problem. I think they tax the money coming from Patreon and google before she gets it or something.
How it works here is if my busines expenses (including wages) matches my business income then my business pays zero tax.
I get taxed as a wage earner though.
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In Fran's current business situation, her spending exceeds her income right now. No profits to tax, so no big tax bills.
She has mentioned that tax is a sizeable problem. I think they tax the money coming from Patreon and google before she gets it or something.
How it works here is if my busines expenses (including wages) matches my business income then my business pays zero tax.
I get taxed as a wage earner though.
I'm quite sure income taxes as a business owner versus the type of business (sole proprietor, share holder of an LLC, etc) varies a lot per country. What is universally the same is that it is very wise to talk to a financial / legal expert to check whether the type of business fits your needs & wishes. Yes, that is going to cost some money but I think it is well worth it.
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it is very wise to talk to a financial / legal expert to check whether the type of business fits your needs & wishes. Yes, that is going to cost some money but I think it is well worth it.
Fully agreed, and also applies to all sorts of questions one might have wrt. for example licensing, patents, et cetera. Just book an expert for an hour, explaining your stance (I like to start with "I'm not trying to minimize my costs by skirting the law; I want to be firmly on the legal side, and understand my options") and your questions beforehand, and listen and make notes.
One trick to finding a good one to ask questions from, is to ask an expert who they'd ask. Some of them will use heavy legalese and won't be interested in explaining things to laymen, but some of them like teaching and are passionate experts, and are happy to explain and answer such questions.
It is definitely worth the cost in my opinion and experience.
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Again I don't know about the US laws for employers exactly, but over here and others parts of the world, employers have to pay taxes on employees. The net wage gotten by the employee is only a fraction of what the employers pays for them in the end.
A fraction? That can't be right.
Here it's 5.1% "payroll tax" but only if you have over $1.2M in wages.
https://www.payrolltax.gov.au/resources#resources__rates_and_thresholds (https://www.payrolltax.gov.au/resources#resources__rates_and_thresholds)
There are other small costs but it's basically no big deal.
That is good to know. I can assure you that over here it's twice the net wage. It's horrific. I guess it can be significant in the US too if you include all the additional benefits, but probably employee benefits are not *mandatory* for an employer, so at its discretion? Over here, we don't have a choice, whatever the size of the company and its revenue. It's about 50% in the employee's pocket and 50% in taxes. Of course that includes all social protection which works very differently in the US. But if we want an employee status over here, we just don't have a choice. And that's before income tax of course which employees pay depending on their net income.
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I'm quite sure income taxes as a business owner versus the type of business (sole proprietor, share holder of an LLC, etc) varies a lot per country. What is universally the same is that it is very wise to talk to a financial / legal expert to check whether the type of business fits your needs & wishes. Yes, that is going to cost some money but I think it is well worth it.
In the US I beleive it's hugely state based, not national. Loius Rossmann for example just moved from New York to Texas (partly) because of the state based red tape and taxes.
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The last time I paid wages was almost two decades ago now, but at the time, in Finland, the employer costs were about 38% to 40% on top of the employee salary. However, if the company was profitable without debt, then to be able to pay that salary, the company had to make enough income to cover VAT for all that. At the time, it rose from 22% to 24% IIRC. So, to be able to pay x in wages, one had to charge at minimum 1.5x for that work, and that excludes all overhead of running the company.
For larger companies, the employer costs were even higher, but they offset the costs by incorporating in e.g. Ireland, and paying concern debt and fees, so that the subsidiary in Finland was all the time in the negative profit.
Funnily enough, the most profitable business model here is to buy cheap and sell high, without changing anything. You only have to pay VAT for the difference, and at least here, companies typically pay much more than private customers for the exact same product or service: poor quality is not an issue, if you change your trade name every two to three years. In the IT sector here, therefore, the most profitable model was to have your tender writers and salesmen in Finland, but all production in a cheaper country, with a parent corporation in Ireland or similar, to which the Finnish subsidiary is in debt and paying concern fees.
No wonder the country is becoming a banana republic, when producing anything useful is taxed way heavier than just buying and selling imported crap. Basically, the Finnish system punishes for selling work, and rewards trading imported crap. :rant:
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In the US, there are some states that charge state income tax and others do not.
Then there is FICA aka social security withheld for all employees.
Next there is federal tax which is withheld for employees.
It all gets sorted out on the federal and state tax forms every year.
No withholding or under withholding you will draw scrutiny of the IRS's eyes.
I'm sure there is a paper trail of all the income by YouTube, eBay, Patreon etc.
Risky business not declaring. Look at Al Capone.
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No wonder the country is becoming a banana republic, when producing anything useful is taxed way heavier than just buying and selling imported crap. Basically, the Finnish system punishes for selling work, and rewards trading imported crap. :rant:
It's pretty much the same in many parts of Europe.
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In the US I beleive it's hugely state based, not national. Loius Rossmann for example just moved from New York to Texas (partly) because of the state based red tape and taxes.
It is both. There are federal taxes and state taxes, everyone pays the federal taxes then the state taxes are on top of both. You'd definitely want to talk to somebody knowledgeable about the specific state you were planning to start a business in.
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She has mentioned that tax is a sizeable problem. I think they tax the money coming from Patreon and google before she gets it or something.
That sounds like they're withholding from her checks, which is not the same as that income actually being taxed. The withholdings are just a crude estimate of what tax will end up being due on it; the final tax calculations are done according to the tax code when you file your return and the previously withheld amounts are taken as credits against that. Over-withholding leads to a tax refund (financially inefficient though people seem to broadly love loaning the government money without interest all year long and then get happy when they get their own money back); under-withholding means you end up writing a check at tax time (ideal, as otherwise, you loaned the government money all year long for no interest).
Patreon says they don't even withhold taxes: https://support.patreon.com/hc/en-us/articles/207477063-US-Creator-Frequently-Asked-Tax-Questions
Google says they don't withhold taxes iff you've registered your tax information with them. (That sounds backwards, but is correct.): https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10391362?hl=en
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That sounds like they're withholding from her checks, which is not the same as that income actually being taxed. The withholdings are just a crude estimate of what tax will end up being due on it; the final tax calculations are done according to the tax code when you file your return and the previously withheld amounts are taken as credits against that. Over-withholding leads to a tax refund (financially inefficient though people seem to broadly love loaning the government money without interest all year long and then get happy when they get their own money back); under-withholding means you end up writing a check at tax time (ideal, as otherwise, you loaned the government money all year long for no interest).
In the UK, no interest is paid on overpaid taxes even if due to an error in HMRC's part. If, however, you make an error on your tax return and correct it after the deadline, you pay 8% + base rate on the error. Ah, isn't taxation fun?
(N.B. in certain cases HMRC will pay corporations interest if an error is on their end, but in general this does not apply to small traders.)
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Tax refunds are for the gullible. Yes! Loan the government your money!
Now at 0% interest now for 1 year! :'(
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Tax refunds are for the gullible. Yes! Loan the government your money!
Now at 0% interest now for 1 year! :'(
I'd still rather get a modest refund than have an unexpected tax bill. These days I usually end up owing money. I liked it better when I got a few hundred dollars refunded. My cost to loan the government a small sum is outweighed by the convenience of not having to send them a payment.
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That's what banks are for. I'd rather have my money working for me than at the IRS at 0%.
For those more inclined, the mere pittance that the bank interest pays, there are other alternatives.
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In the US I beleive it's hugely state based, not national. Loius Rossmann for example just moved from New York to Texas (partly) because of the state based red tape and taxes.
It is both. There are federal taxes and state taxes, everyone pays the federal taxes then the state taxes are on top of both. You'd definitely want to talk to somebody knowledgeable about the specific state you were planning to start a business in.
Yes, state is on top of federal, but it's the state based taxes that I hear all the yanks complaining about.
We don't have state based income taxes here. There are some difference in states in regards to payroll tax I I mentioned, and taxes if you are big building developer or something, but not something the individual needs to worry about.
No one ever moved stats in Australia because of taxes.
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Many "free" (non corrupt) states have no state income tax. The difference is made up in sales tax which is below 8%.
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Yes, state is on top of federal, but it's the state based taxes that I hear all the yanks complaining about.
We don't have state based income taxes here. There are some difference in states in regards to payroll tax I I mentioned, and taxes if you are big building developer or something, but not something the individual needs to worry about.
No one ever moved stats in Australia because of taxes.
The state taxes tend to be more visible, largely because there is something to compare them to. For example the state adjacent to mine, Oregon, has no sales tax which makes our state sales tax annoying. On the other hand, Oregon has much higher property taxes so moving there to get away from the sales tax is jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. Some states are substantially more friendly to businesses, so it's no surprise to see large companies relocating to those states. The federal taxes apply to everyone so there's no escaping them, and the main one is on income. For most people that money is taken out of their paycheck before they ever see it.
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Fran is trying to kickstart her old Frantone channel. That will unfortunately be a long hard slog. I'd be sticking with FranLab in the current situation, but as someone with 3 channels, I can see the appeal of doing that.
Maybe a step in getting Frantone back into manufacturing?
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That's what banks are for. I'd rather have my money working for me than at the IRS at 0%.
For those more inclined, the mere pittance that the bank interest pays, there are other alternatives.
Do what works for you. The amount I'd earn off having a few hundred bucks in a bank or some other investment is offset just by the time and hassle required to send a payment to the IRS. It's not even worth messing with, my time is worth more than that.
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Looks like the gamble on pleasing the Patrons didn't pay off by doing one video a week.
She lost 90% of the Youtube views for not uploading frequently, and that also lead to not having enough Patrons to replace those that drop off. Brutal! :(
So she is back to one video per day hampster wheel.
She will have another video coming soon, but here is a mention of it:
It's amazin how some channels can make one video a week/month and not only do fine, but grow. But then other channels can't. We are a slave to the algorithm.
https://youtu.be/mjuEdw016L0?t=5926
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That outcome is unfortunate, but is also one of the least surprising things I've read in this entire thread. This exact outcome was prophesied two months ago (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4463164/#msg4463164).
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That outcome is unfortunate, but is also one of the least surprising things I've read in this entire thread. This exact outcome was prophesied two months ago (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4463164/#msg4463164).
Yes, although you never know how the algorithm is going to punish or reward your channel. Always worth testing, the views could have stayed or even improved. It really does depend on how Youtube decides to push your videos. And the algorithm is always changing. But a 90%+ drop is astonishing, no way I expected that.
Personally I don't really look at the stats any more, as my income isn't entirely dependent upon daily/monthly views.
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Depending on a third party with such flaky terms and conditions and no warranties expressed cannot be seen as a viable living. The past two months were rough to generate content in a steady way and the audience simply vanished. Impressions, views, subscribers, etc suffered 60, 70% loss. Youtube is a store display for your company, not the main revenue (unless for a few that amassed huge followings).
Although Fran had businesses in the past, she seems to keep the emotions get in the way of profitability. We all have these emotions, but they cannot be a threat to viability of a business or livelihood.
Until she gets a grip on this, Fran lab, tone, etc. are unfortunately doomed to fail or ve eternally on life support.
Oh well... All that was said time and again... Good luck to her.
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Looks like the gamble on pleasing the Patrons didn't pay off by doing one video a week.
She lost 90% of the Youtube views for not uploading frequently, and that also lead to not having enough Patrons to replace those that drop off. Brutal! :(
So she is back to one video per day hampster wheel.
She will have another video coming soon, but here is a mention of it:
It's amazin how some channels can make one video a week/month and not only do fine, but grow. But then other channels can't. We are a slave to the algorithm.
https://youtu.be/mjuEdw016L0?t=5926
One video per *day*? Who on earth has time to watch that many, and how high can the quality possibly be? I would much rather watch one really well produced video per month that crappy daily filler. Quality over quantity.
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It's amazin how some channels can make one video a week/month and not only do fine, but grow. But then other channels can't. We are a slave to the algorithm.
One video per *day*? Who on earth has time to watch that many, and how high can the quality possibly be? I would much rather watch one really well produced video per month that crappy daily filler. Quality over quantity.
The thing is that doesn't work for a channel like Fran's which (like mine) is an eclectic channel, with many different types and styles of video content.
That means that one video per week less means that it is guaranteed that fewer subscribers are going to get the video they are interested in and hence watch. Because everyone subscribes for a different reason.
This is why the subscriber to view ratio of a channel like mine or Fran's os WAY lower than channel like for example, Big Clive, Great Scott, or Electroboom.
Those channels produce basically one style and type of very consistent content that appeals to the majority of people who subscribed.
If you don't have that consistency then you have to produce more content to hopefully gian the clikcs of the subscriber base.
And this is just to keep your existing subscriber base engaged, it doesn't include attracting new audiences and pleasing the algorithm.
And small thing video length make a big difference. My latest video I will release tomorrow I aggresively edited to just under 20min so it appears to people as a "10 something minute video" instead of a "20 something minute video" so it will hopefully get more clicks from existing subscribers when they get notified.
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Looks like the gamble on pleasing the Patrons didn't pay off by doing one video a week.
She lost 90% of the Youtube views for not uploading frequently, and that also lead to not having enough Patrons to replace those that drop off. Brutal! :(
So she is back to one video per day hampster wheel.
She will have another video coming soon, but here is a mention of it:
It's amazin how some channels can make one video a week/month and not only do fine, but grow. But then other channels can't. We are a slave to the algorithm.
https://youtu.be/mjuEdw016L0?t=5926
One video per *day*? Who on earth has time to watch that many, and how high can the quality possibly be? I would much rather watch one really well produced video per month that crappy daily filler. Quality over quantity.
I disagree. Several Youtubers release a video per day to give an update on the projects they are working on. Typically these videos range from 5 minutes (done nothing) to over an hour (took something complex apart). But these Youtubers have & need to have at least one full-time employee who films and edits the videos. And yes, these videos are worth watching if you are interested in the subject matter.
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I've always wondered how many YouTubers use contract editors and production staff. I'm not a professional, but the last time I edited a video, which was 20 minutes long, it took me about 4 hours. Maybe with practice I could get that down to 2 hours or so, but it wouldn't be *good*. The bigger YouTubers must surely have an editing team, perhaps even a producer, dedicated camera operator, etc? How else could you keep up with that output?
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I'm all for editing to trim out repetitive and pointless chatter or to show PCB, test equipment and datasheets but I generally think less editing is better. Editing is particularly awful in hollywood. They change the camera angle and zoom way too often, it's usually zoomed way too far in unless someone is texting then they zoom too far out. It is particularly bad in fight scenes, you can't see their technique, it's just a bunch of 1 second clips.
The TV show: Trailer Park Boys has some of the best editing I've seen. Few camera angle changes and zoomed out far enough to often see funny stuff going on in the background. It's easy on the eyes and you can see their body language and the environment. Can't quite see every bead of sweat on their face but I'd rather not see that anyways.
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I've always wondered how many YouTubers use contract editors and production staff. I'm not a professional, but the last time I edited a video, which was 20 minutes long, it took me about 4 hours. Maybe with practice I could get that down to 2 hours or so, but it wouldn't be *good*. The bigger YouTubers must surely have an editing team, perhaps even a producer, dedicated camera operator, etc? How else could you keep up with that output?
Seems to depend on the channel and popularity. Just looking at a few of the bigger channels I subscribe to:
Eevblog: Dave seems to do his own stuff on multiple channels. He can chime on how much time it takes.
Fab Rats: Posts 3 times a week. The editing is done by the the wife. One of his relatives was hired as a cameraman.
Matts Off-road: Posts 3 times a week. He has a dedicated editing/camera guy, plus everyone (family and employees) picks up a camera in the field as required.
Several others: Post variable times a week and don't give a shit about editing. You get what they filmed, for the most part. In some cases, they're just copies of what were originally live streams.
Fran: obviously does her own stuff. Clearly once a week isn't often enough, but every day may not be required either (for youtube anyway...what the users were promised is another matter). Several times a week seems to work for other people and for the youtube algorithm.
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Few camera angle changes and zoomed out far enough to often see funny stuff going on in the background.
I watched a Japanese film the other month which was simply stunning, although you didn't realise until the end. It was SciFi thing about time - not time travel per se but being able to see into the future via a CCTV monitor. So the plot was basically that they would look into the monitor and see their future selves getting into trouble and telling their current selves to do this and that to head off things. As the viewer we see the main player looking into his monitor and seeing stuff from the future which happens to be his friends in his shop below where he lives. We follow him down (and up) the external stairs, round the block to not chat up some girl, and the exact scene he saw earlier from a position in the shop. There were many such - we see the future and in the future it plays out exactly how we saw, but right in front of our eyes.
It was an OK film just for that, but amazingly it was shot on a phone in one take! It's really difficult to believe, but afterwards they showed the behind the scenes making of it, and sure enough it was a phone and one take. The operator climbed over furniture and stuff to get the panning shots in a normal shop and block of flats, and the assistant with lights and stuff crawled around the floor somehow remaining out of shot. The coordination of the (obviously live but pretend future) monitor shots and then doing the same again when the future arrives, and have them look exactly right without pre-recording anything, must've taken serious planning. (Well, it did - we see them doing that as well in the 'making of').
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It was an OK film just for that, but amazingly it was shot on a phone in one take!
How many practice takes?
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BigCliveDotCom's Youtube channel, seems to mostly just take a video and then post it as is. With the odd exception, when he is doing something not worth watching or violently dismantling a difficult bit of something, which he cuts out of the video.
I don't think he even uses cameras as such to take the vidoes. It might have been an iPad or similar originally, then moved on to mobile phone(s), later.
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It was an OK film just for that, but amazingly it was shot on a phone in one take!
How many practice takes?
Don't think they said. I'd imagine it would be a real bummer to get 5 mins from the end and make a mistake.
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BigCliveDotCom's Youtube channel, seems to mostly just take a video and then post it as is. With the odd exception, when he is doing something not worth watching or violently dismantling a difficult bit of something, which he cuts out of the video....
"one moment please"
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I've always wondered how many YouTubers use contract editors and production staff. I'm not a professional, but the last time I edited a video, which was 20 minutes long, it took me about 4 hours. Maybe with practice I could get that down to 2 hours or so, but it wouldn't be *good*. The bigger YouTubers must surely have an editing team, perhaps even a producer, dedicated camera operator, etc? How else could you keep up with that output?
I don't know a single creator in our electronics space that uses a third party writer or have production staff. The exception is the larger general interest channels like Real Engineering, Veritasium etc.
The biggest example si of coure Linus Tech Tips who's organisation is incredible in size.
Even when I had David working full time, he didn't help with producing my content.
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Eevblog: Dave seems to do his own stuff on multiple channels. He can chime on how much time it takes.
Time wise I could do a video per day if that's all I had to do, and I wasn't a lazy arse and/or spend too much time watching Youtube videos and chatting on the forum ;D
Generally speaking I like to start, shoot, edit and finish a video in a single day.
I have a packing and shipping business which I do all myself as well.
And a family...
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BigCliveDotCom's Youtube channel, seems to mostly just take a video and then post it as is. With the odd exception, when he is doing something not worth watching or violently dismantling a difficult bit of something, which he cuts out of the video.
I don't think he even uses cameras as such to take the vidoes. It might have been an iPad or similar originally, then moved on to mobile phone(s), later.
Yes, Clive just uses a phone and a tablet and does the "editing" on there, which isn't really editing. Even his macro photos are taken with a phone and custom light ring.
That of course works fine unless you want to create other styles of content. But as said, that has its downsides because people subscribe for his one unique style.
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Yes, Clive just uses a phone and a tablet and does the "editing" on there, which isn't really editing. Even his macro photos are taken with a phone and custom light ring.
That of course works fine unless you want to create other styles of content. But as said, that has its downsides because people subscribe for his one unique style.
There are also, some advantages to there NOT being other people, professionally editing/producing the videos. Because it makes the videos more home-like, honest, easier to watch (as you DON'T need to try to reverse engineer the video production, in your head, to decide what was really going on). I.e. It is closer to watching a person in real life, and more random/real.
Rather than a more professionally produced product, but that then tends to make the proceedings more predictable, similar and less interesting.
E.g. As you get older, I think some people find that they have already seen ALL the movies. Even if the actual movie was ONLY released, yesterday. Because so many things, seem to be done in EXACTLY (in real terms), the same, predictable way (especially with plots and final outcomes).
Linus Tech Tips, is professionally produced, and looks it (if I understand things correctly). But that in some respects, reduces some enjoyable elements.
Frans videos, seem to have a significantly different style to making the videos, compared to most other electronics youtubers. Very down to Earth, honest, speaking from their heart, lots of words used, very much into the art/love/excitement of electronics/{computers}, rather than the technical or commercial aspects of them.
Fran also (in very approximate terms) seems to present more personality at the videos, even if they try and hold it back. She can sometimes start (or have in it) a video, with the first 10 seconds of it, being just showing face expressions of frustration or similar/other emotions. Before detailing the problems/issues.
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I've always wondered how many YouTubers use contract editors and production staff. I'm not a professional, but the last time I edited a video, which was 20 minutes long, it took me about 4 hours. Maybe with practice I could get that down to 2 hours or so, but it wouldn't be *good*. The bigger YouTubers must surely have an editing team, perhaps even a producer, dedicated camera operator, etc? How else could you keep up with that output?
I don't know a single creator in our electronics space that uses a third party writer or have production staff. The exception is the larger general interest channels like Real Engineering, Veritasium etc.
The biggest example si of coure Linus Tech Tips who's organisation is incredible in size.
Even when I had David working full time, he didn't help with producing my content.
Yes behind some channels there's a surprisingly large staff, but that's those very popular channels that target a much wider audience.
In electronics, that's more of a niche. Some are contracting their video editing to someone else (usually freelancers, not employees), for the larger channels, and of course they often have an accountant, but that's the extent of it for most of them.
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I disagree. Several Youtubers release a video per day to give an update on the projects they are working on. Typically these videos range from 5 minutes (done nothing) to over an hour (took something complex apart). But these Youtubers have & need to have at least one full-time employee who films and edits the videos. And yes, these videos are worth watching if you are interested in the subject matter.
I guess I'm just not much of a watcher, I never watched nearly as much TV as most people in the past and apparently I don't watch as many online videos as most people. I probably watched about once of Dave's videos a month, Big Clive I'll watch a handful of them while I'm working on something and then not watch any for months. That's how it is with most videos actually, I watch several of them in a row and then I go do other things for months until that topic grabs my interest again. There are zero content producers that I subscribe to and watch all the videos as they come out.
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I'm all for editing to trim out repetitive and pointless chatter or to show PCB, test equipment and datasheets but I generally think less editing is better. Editing is particularly awful in hollywood. They change the camera angle and zoom way too often, it's usually zoomed way too far in unless someone is texting then they zoom too far out. It is particularly bad in fight scenes, you can't see their technique, it's just a bunch of 1 second clips.
It drives me nuts when they change camera angles constantly. I remember many years ago trying to watch a fireworks show on TV and they were constantly changing cameras which I find so distracting. I don't remember what it was that I saw more recently that was like that, the changes were very jarring because they would occur while I was still processing what I was seeing. I can't focus when something is constantly flipping around.
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Yes behind some channels there's a surprisingly large staff, but that's those very popular channels that target a much wider audience.
In electronics, that's more of a niche. Some are contracting their video editing to someone else (usually freelancers, not employees), for the larger channels, and of course they often have an accountant, but that's the extent of it for most of them.
I met and asked Michael Stephens (Vsauce) once if he had an editor. He said he tried it but in the end it was just too much hassle, so ended up going back to just editing himself.
The two most polished electronics channels in terms of production, Great Scott and Electroboom just do it themselves AFAIK.
I thought about having an editor at one point if I went ahead with my EEVdiscover series. i.e. make the entire series look all wanky and consistent and have them edit an entire season of videos.
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Saw Fran's live Patreon show today.
TLDR;
Yep, daily views are down 90% from Sept when she was on the hampster wheel doing a video per day.
But even now being back on the hampster wheel the views have not recovered. Her channel has basically tanked completely :(
Lost half the Patrons she gained during the big push a few months ago, and continuing to drop, so it seems that plan didn't work. There just aren't enough patrons coming in to replace the ones leaving, not even close.
She will cancel doing the live Patreon shows as she realises that Patrons just don't engage, only like a dozen viewing today. (Myself and other Youtubers see the same thing BTW, Patrons do no engage with content, they just use it as a donation mechanism).
She has now realised that doing things just to please the Patrons didn't work.
Problem is now that if the views don't recover, and the algorithm doesn't stop punishing her for some reason, then the channel will wither and die. The graph she showed was brutal, the algorithm really seems to be punishing her.
Rent on storage is $1000/month which is much less than I thought. But main problems are taxes and that rent increases are going up like 10% every year. They don't have fixed rental agreements like we do here. Still claims Philly is the cheapest big city in the US.
Unless views recover, I suspect that even if she ditched the storage unit and the workshop, and only had the apartment lab, she would still struggle with just the Patreon and Youtube income.
Doesn't sound good at all :(
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show business can be a cruel unpredictable high wire act, one day you full & it will be rip or your replaced by another, younger upstart act.
even the most scientific of shows can succumb to the popular demands for daily amusement.
in my opinion, its better to have 2 or 3 lifetime friends and a regular income, then placate the endless demands of a mass of fickle funs & fairweather friends.
It would seem to me many full time youtubers are in show business. a circus act in search of an audience.
when I first posted on youtube in 2008 2010? it was home video , a hobby for most of us at the time.
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Lots to learn and like with Justin's content. This recent one while generic on regrowing an old channel is worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA-QfNVlZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUA-QfNVlZs)
To get me as an example to rewatch a channel get real get back to what I went there to watch in the first place and stop bleating poor me.
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Yes, although you never know how the algorithm is going to punish or reward your channel. Always worth testing, the views could have stayed or even improved. It really does depend on how Youtube decides to push your videos. And the algorithm is always changing. But a 90%+ drop is astonishing, no way I expected that.
I unsubscribed from Fran around the time she changed tack. I can't believe I was the only one who did. I'm not mad at her for doing it.
I don't even watch all of BigClive's short videos any more but they're always something I'll consider watching because they're a bit like a quick snack. I decided to have another look at FranLab to see how things pan out. I like Fran.
But there are many channels I no longer watch. Or only watch a few videos from. You can't watch everything. My current favourite electronics channel is Jerry Walker but it is a tiny channel. He has something to say and YT is his means to that end.
I watch a huge variety of stuff and the algorithm obviously tries hard to find me new stuff to watch. It's a bit hit-and-miss but not completely useless.
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Lots to learn and like with Justin's content. This recent one while generic on regrowing an old channel is worth a watch.
To get me as an example to rewatch a channel get real get back to what I went there to watch in the first place and stop bleating poor me.
She did just revive the old Frantone channel.
Only had a few hundred subs, now up to 2.75k
Always smart to have 2nd channel, but financially not going to useful for a long time.
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I unsubscribed from Fran around the time she changed tack. I can't believe I was the only one who did. I'm not mad at her for doing it.
As in just recently in September?
I'm sure that's a factor, but to lose 90% of daily views chanel wide, that's the algorithm punishing her.
But there are many channels I no longer watch. Or only watch a few videos from. You can't watch everything. I watch a huge variety of stuff and the algorithm obviously tries hard to find me new stuff to watch. It's a bit hit-and-miss but not completely useless.
This is what I stuggle with with my channel.
Subscriber growth has always been pretty consistent, but ultimately what matters is the daily channel views, and that hasn't grown and has dropped somewhat over the years. I'm sure this is because there are just so many other electronics channels now, hundreds of big ones, which is great to see, but it ultimately means less views to go around.
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Saw Fran's live Patreon show today.
TLDR;
She will cancel doing the live Patreon shows as she realises that Patrons just don't engage, only like a dozen viewing today. (Myself and other Youtubers see the same thing BTW, Patrons do no engage with content, they just use it as a donation mechanism).
She has now realised that doing things just to please the Patrons didn't work.
I didn't see this video she did telling people about the Patreon live streams this week, only to have it fail even with that promotion. As I said, I was only one of about a dozen peopel watching today.
She is right to abandon Patreon live streams, they clearly do not work. better to spend the time on making main channel content.
So right now her main problem isn't so much the money, it's reviving the channel so it even has a chance of continuing to produce the money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5N8D0GYVC4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5N8D0GYVC4)
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By some extraordinary coincidence even Mustie1 did a Q&A about Youtube and the Algorithm in his latest video today. Very unusual for him to do that. He did it whilst rebuilding a carburetor. He also added that he has bills to pay on storage and shop space he uses for his youtube work. So in that respect he is a bit like Fran.
That says to me every youtuber has the algorithm in mind.
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... but ultimately what matters is the daily channel views, and that hasn't grown and has dropped somewhat over the years. I'm sure this is because there are just so many other electronics channels now
Or people just get bored with the same thing. It's the same with books and TV progs and food and lots of things: at first you love it and gorge, then once sated something else catches your attention. Nowt wrong with the stuff (or your channel), just that generally people have changing tastes. While the number of similar channels will have some effect, once you're done with BUSTED!!1! channels and moved onto cat videos, the number of similar channels around just means more you're not going to watch.
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Saw Fran's live Patreon show today.
TLDR;
Yep, daily views are down 90% from Sept when she was on the hampster wheel doing a video per day.
But even now being back on the hampster wheel the views have not recovered. Her channel has basically tanked completely :(
Lost half the Patrons she gained during the big push a few months ago, and continuing to drop, so it seems that plan didn't work. There just aren't enough patrons coming in to replace the ones leaving, not even close.
She will cancel doing the live Patreon shows as she realises that Patrons just don't engage, only like a dozen viewing today. (Myself and other Youtubers see the same thing BTW, Patrons do no engage with content, they just use it as a donation mechanism).
She has now realised that doing things just to please the Patrons didn't work.
Problem is now that if the views don't recover, and the algorithm doesn't stop punishing her for some reason, then the channel will wither and die. The graph she showed was brutal, the algorithm really seems to be punishing her.
Rent on storage is $1000/month which is much less than I thought. But main problems are taxes and that rent increases are going up like 10% every year. They don't have fixed rental agreements like we do here. Still claims Philly is the cheapest big city in the US.
Unless views recover, I suspect that even if she ditched the storage unit and the workshop, and only had the apartment lab, she would still struggle with just the Patreon and Youtube income.
Doesn't sound good at all :(
I'm disappointed but not surprised. Frankly I stopped watching her videos when they turned into soap operas about her personal life and financial situation more than presentations about interesting technology. I suspect a lot of viewers were similarly turned off by that and have gotten weary of the repeating cycle. Loads of people went the extra mile trying to help her but now they are realizing the pattern is just going to keep repeating. I've tried to help various people out in the past and observed there are some that just need a boost and then they get their life together and keep going while others coast to a stop as soon as you stop pushing. Fran appears to be one of the latter. She is so dead set on operating within certain very rigid constraints that failure is inevitable, why should I support that?
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She is so dead set on operating within certain very rigid constraints that failure is inevitable, why should I support that?
It is not just a matter of, WHY help? But more a matter of, I don't think it is readily possible to help such people. But there could be ways, so I don't want to close my mind to solutions, too easily.
The fundamental gist of it, seems to boil down to. They are free to make their own decisions and do what ever they like (where legal etc). Going on to them too much, to change their ways, especially when it DOESN'T directly affect oneself.
Can often be counterproductive, and simply make the person more stubborn and determined, to follow their ways, than ever.
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Frankly I stopped watching her videos when they turned into soap operas about her personal life and financial situation more than presentations about interesting technology.
I stopped watching jpheisz' (I Build It, etc.) channels, because he so often mentioned what kind of videos he'd like to make but won't, because they wouldn't bring him enough Youtube income to make it worthwhile. It somehow made me feel slightly guilty/complicit as if I was being unfair, as a viewer: being part of the reason for him having to make videos that make him money, instead of videos that he'd like to make.
With close friends and family, such social pressure often works, but on Youtube, it seems more likely to backfire horribly.
There is a strange but interesting social component at play here, wrt. Youtube and other media channels, and I'd be willing to wager it also has to do with how patrons support content, even when they don't actually watch (all/most) of that content. It's not just charity (or being socially responsible adult, supporting those doing things you want done, or being people you want to exist), there is also a fairness/reciprocality component to it (you make things I enjoy, and I feel the need to compensate/reward you for your efforts). But also a certain type of familiarity (when the creator opens up), and anonymity (because the creator cannot know what we do, except only statistically), especially when users/patrons/viewers never comment or chat, or use pseudonyms like myself.
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I just stop watching all the channels that constantly whine about "the algorithm". I don't care, it is your job to figure it out. I too have a job that sometimes sucks and I don't always get to do exactly what I want.
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I just stop watching all the channels that constantly whine about "the algorithm". I don't care, it is your job to figure it out. I too have a job that sometimes sucks and I don't always get to do exactly what I want.
Agreed. It is like complaining a soldering iron is hot. :)
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By some extraordinary coincidence even Mustie1 did a Q&A about Youtube and the Algorithm in his latest video today. Very unusual for him to do that. He did it whilst rebuilding a carburetor. He also added that he has bills to pay on storage and shop space he uses for his youtube work. So in that respect he is a bit like Fran.
That says to me every youtuber has the algorithm in mind.
We all do if it's our full time job, or a serious part of our income.
Like Fran I also have 4 spaces (lab, home, two storage units). Difference is I own them instead of rent.
I was paying close to AU$40k/year for a few years on rent on the bigger space, and I had a full time employee, and at one point the business ran out of money. Simple cash flow issue. I recovered and it wasn't a big deal, but I talked about it in some video and on the amp hour. It's one of the reason why I scaled back to the smaller lab I own, and I haven't replaced David2 who left.
So I think I'm as close to Frans situation as anyone and here are the differences:
1) I own my spaces, not rent. Fran can't own due to all the reasons discussed, so she is stuck renting.
2) I have additional income sources through branded meters. I've tried to talk Fran into this before but she said logistically it's very difficult shipping stuff from where she is.
3) I have a forum and website with additional advertising income
I think we all know she need to reduce expenses, but I think she needs to look into an additional income source as well.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
I'm sure she gets a lot of horrible stuff, but she did mention that she is effectively banning viewers, and that doing this might be contributing to the algorithm punishing her.
Probably not the best approach if you need the get the numbers back up.
She is getting crushed by the algorithm though for probably more than one reason. I wouldn't like to be in that position.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
I'm sure she gets a lot of horrible stuff, but she did mention that she is effectively banning viewers, and that doing this might be contributing to the algorithm punishing her.
Probably not the best approach if you need the get the numbers back up.
She is getting crushed by the algorithm though for probably more than one reason. I wouldn't like to be in that position.
Fran, seems to treat their business(s), much more like as if they were part of her hobby and personal possessions, rather than as a separate business entity. I think that is part of the cause, of much of the problems.
Because (as you just said), unlike a personal hobby, which doesn't need to make any money and you can, just about do what you like with it. A business, needs to make a profit (or at least break even, unless someone wants to chuck cash at it, from their own resources), and its cash flow and costs, need to be sensibly managed, keeping emotions largely out of running it.
On the other hand, I don't know Fran (personally), and I could be jumping to conclusions, from my relatively limited amount of information, about the situation. But I'd prefer Fran to get the best possible business advise, and I DON'T THINK, I'd be the one, to give it.
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I think we all know she need to reduce expenses, but I think she needs to look into an additional income source as well.
It's not just income, it's important for ones long-term well-being, too, to be aware of and have several options for the future.
If you are hard set on one specific path, rejecting all alternatives, the stress can become crushing, overwhelming. There is no need for that, because us technical people have plenty of opportunities to thrive. It all starts from knowing oneself, and what makes one happy and productive.
I really see Fran squeezing herself into a tighter and tighter corner, rejecting all alternatives, because the ground looks scary and this here is familiar and feels safe.
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I think we all know she need to reduce expenses, but I think she needs to look into an additional income source as well.
That is a good point. I typically solve lack of money by making more money. Not by spending less. But I'm prepared to make radical changes.
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That is a good point. I typically solve lack of money by making more money. Not by spending less.
Yes, but if you have got, unnecessarily huge outgoings, reducing/changing/eliminating those big costs, can also be part of the solution (financially speaking).
E.g. You're paying $4,000 / month, to Hire/Lease an over the top, expensive car, but only earning $2,000 a month. Ending the car contract, returning the car, and buying a (one off cost) $2,000 cheap, used car. Might be the best way forward. If you can get a higher salaried or additional job as well, great.
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I think we all know she need to reduce expenses, but I think she needs to look into an additional income source as well.
At this point I don't think it is possible to reduce expenses enough, she's probably going to have to find a regular job of one sort or another, something that is not all that easy at that age, although if one is willing to work retail or such there are loads of places that can't find enough labor, at least in my area. Last year it took me 45 minutes to find someone at the local big box home center to find someone that was able to cut and thread a piece of iron gas pipe for me. They were that short staffed.
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That is a good point. I typically solve lack of money by making more money. Not by spending less. But I'm prepared to make radical changes.
A good friend of mine was doing that, and he was always broke. It was when I finally told him he needs to stop focusing on earning more and focus instead on spending less that it finally clicked and he got things in order. It's easy to spend a virtually unlimited amount of money. People that win millions from the lottery are often broke within a few years because they don't grasp how easy it is to spend vast amounts of money.
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2) I have additional income sources through branded meters. I've tried to talk Fran into this before but she said logistically it's very difficult shipping stuff from where she is.
That is the lamest excuse ever. The shipping options available in the US are nothing short of amazing and affordable compared to many places. There is also the option of Amazon(I know the percentage they take is painful, but it means much less daily work).
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At this point I don't think it is possible to reduce expenses enough, she's probably going to have to find a regular job of one sort or another, something that is not all that easy at that age, although if one is willing to work retail or such there are loads of places that can't find enough labor, at least in my area. Last year it took me 45 minutes to find someone at the local big box home center to find someone that was able to cut and thread a piece of iron gas pipe for me. They were that short staffed.
I see several ways out of this:
1) The views and/or Patreon magically recover and the algorithm gifts her the ability to just continue along for another year or whatever. Which I'm sure she'd do it that happens.
2) Radically lower expenses by moving storage/shop and even apartment. But she has ruled that out, so that's that.
3) Get some extra income by getting into some decent profit margin branded merch or something else. My store for example brings in a huge chunk of my income. She has expressed that this is not easy where she is, but doesn't mean it's not an option.
4) Take paid video sponsorships. Even I'd do this if it meant the difference between keeping the channel alive and going back to a day job.
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I see several ways out of this:
1) The views and/or Patreon magically recover and the algorithm gifts her the ability to just continue along for another year or whatever. Which I'm sure she'd do it that happens.
2) Radically lower expenses by moving storage/shop and even apartment. But she has ruled that out, so that's that.
3) Get some extra income by getting into some decent profit margin branded merch or something else. My store for example brings in a huge chunk of my income. She has expressed that this is not easy where she is, but doesn't mean it's not an option.
4) Take paid video sponsorships. Even I'd do this if it meant the difference between keeping the channel alive and going back to a day job.
I think you are confirming, that the bottom end of the barrel has been reached, and almost nothing is flowing out of it.
1) I think you stated it in a way, which shows it is very unlikely to happen.
2) Already states it is eliminated. Even if they changed their mind, it is getting late in the day.
3) It is easy to say stuff like that. But if the viewership has already tanked, vary badly. It is partly too late, for that to be viable enough.
4) But if the viewership has already fallen off a cliff, and the trend continues. Sponsors would be reluctant to do it, wouldn't pay much (for low view counts), and would still need arranging.
The thing is, buying a property, does take significant capital, organizing and still needs some kind of income stream (paying off any loans/soaring-interest rates, repair bills, many other costs/bills, etc). Even if it is potentially less/cheaper, in the longer term, compared to renting.
But as you suggest, maybe things can suddenly go back up again, and perhaps good opportunities will come along.
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I see several ways out of this:
1) The views and/or Patreon magically recover and the algorithm gifts her the ability to just continue along for another year or whatever. Which I'm sure she'd do it that happens.
2) Radically lower expenses by moving storage/shop and even apartment. But she has ruled that out, so that's that.
3) Get some extra income by getting into some decent profit margin branded merch or something else. My store for example brings in a huge chunk of my income. She has expressed that this is not easy where she is, but doesn't mean it's not an option.
4) Take paid video sponsorships. Even I'd do this if it meant the difference between keeping the channel alive and going back to a day job.
I think you are confirming, that the bottom end of the barrel has been reached, and almost nothing is flowing out of it.
1) I think you stated it in a way, which shows it is very unlikely to happen.
2) Already states it is eliminated. Even if they changed their mind, it is getting late in the day.
3) It is easy to say stuff like that. But if the viewership has already tanked, vary badly. It is partly too late, for that to be viable enough.
4) But if the viewership has already fallen off a cliff, and the trend continues. Sponsors would be reluctant to do it, wouldn't pay much (for low view counts), and would still need arranging.
Yes, but you have to plan and play the game as if you are going to win.
I've seen channel way smaller do paid promotion and/or reviews of stuff.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
There are a few youtube channels that are by far my favorite. I watch every video sometimes multiple times and I recommend them to friends.
I rarely comment on youtube but for these channels. Sometimes I back them up when people make inaccurate criticism. Other times I question or disagree with them. It means I'm interested in what they are saying and I'm offering a tiny bit of knowledge as thanks for the huge amount they've given me. Sometimes I'm just wondering why they have a different view, wondering if I'm missing something and hoping they'll explain.
I think the most engaged viewers are the ones that will question you. I'm not sure how Fran differentiates between negative troll, and engaged / inquizative fans but too much sensitivity here could lose some reliable followers.
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Yes, but you have to plan and play the game as if you are going to win.
I've seen channel way smaller do paid promotion and/or reviews of stuff.
You're right. Also, if a significant Youtube channel, does a very big sponsorship deal. E.g. A big oscilloscope giveaway, two free high end ones, per week for a month. The sponsors, may possibly help significantly advertise the offers/competition/youtube video, themselves. As really, the more viewers who see it and participate, the bigger the value they get, from those valuable oscilloscopes, they were giving away.
But if such sponsorship deals, only keep Fran afloat, for a few weeks at a time, assuming they stubbornly insist on keeping things, the same as they are now. I.e. With expensive rentals. It would only be delaying things. But it could work out.
I'm torn/conflicted here. Between dealing out doom and gloom, in the hope it might get Fran (directly, indirectly or slightly), to change course, and handle the property situation, much more efficiently and effectively.
Verses being the nice guy, and being hugely optimistic about the situation.
EDIT: On reflection, I was being too harsh and critical. The viewership drops, have only been quite a recent thing. It could just be a temporary blip and/or readily solvable by Fran. I was over-reacting to short term trends/information, and partly jumping to conclusions.
Presumably with a youtube channel. Sometimes experimentation and fine tuning is needed, to refine the sweet spots.
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Diode Steering For Displays by FranLab in 2015
this breadboard electronics project in my opinion was the peak of her youtube channel. when I discovered it why back then. but sadly in slow decline with less & less diy electronics
over the years.
Diode Steering For Displays by FranLab was picked up by hackaday.
https://hackaday.com/2015/02/25/diode-steering-and-counting-with-a-555/
(https://hackaday.com/2015/02/25/diode-steering-and-counting-with-a-555/)
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That is a good point. I typically solve lack of money by making more money. Not by spending less.
Yes, but if you have got, unnecessarily huge outgoings, reducing/changing/eliminating those big costs, can also be part of the solution (financially speaking).
E.g. You're paying $4,000 / month, to Hire/Lease an over the top, expensive car, but only earning $2,000 a month. Ending the car contract, returning the car, and buying a (one off cost) $2,000 cheap, used car. Might be the best way forward. If you can get a higher salaried or additional job as well, great.
Ofcourse but in the end you can't control all expenses. You need to have a warm home and eat. And it would be nice to make sure your kids have a good education and go on a vacaction every now and then. There is a difference between living and surviving. Making more money can make that difference.
I've seen channel way smaller do paid promotion and/or reviews of stuff.
Me as well. Companies are remarkably keen on getting 'influencers' to show their items. Edit: Youtubers with 5 times less subscribers compared to Fran can get sponsorship deals.
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2) I have additional income sources through branded meters. I've tried to talk Fran into this before but she said logistically it's very difficult shipping stuff from where she is.
I don't understand this. Even if it is difficult to run a warehouse from her location in Philly, she doesn't have to do the shipping herself. She can use a fulfillment company or just do a branding deal with a company that throws her a cut for the sales or an annual licencing fee etc.
It sounds like another psychological wall being created to prevent a solution being found.
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2) I have additional income sources through branded meters. I've tried to talk Fran into this before but she said logistically it's very difficult shipping stuff from where she is.
I don't understand this. Even if it is difficult to run a warehouse from her location in Philly, she doesn't have to do the shipping herself. She can use a fulfillment company or just do a branding deal with a company that throws her a cut for the sales or an annual licencing fee etc.
It is not that simple. You still need to get production going, do testing, etc. I sell the differential HF probe I designed but the labour & time associated with production, testing, packaging and shipping prevents me from advertising it on a large scale. A fullfillment company will only take care of shipping. My wife can take care of that if push comes to shove.
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It is not that simple. You still need to get production going, do testing, etc. I sell the differential HF probe I designed but the labour & time associated with production, testing, packaging and shipping prevents me from advertising it on a large scale. A fullfillment company will only take care of shipping. My wife can take care of that if push comes to shove.
Custom electronics is one thing, but even something like merchandise or nik-naks could be done hands-off.
With something like a custom multimeter I suppose it depends on how much of a modification is made before testing is made. I haven't seen how involved Dave was in the compliance testing side of the 121GW -- perhaps he has a video on this I haven't seen. It depends on how far Fran wants to go with this. I can imagine that there are manufacturers of less bespoke effects boxes who'd like to have Fran's name on something that had a lot of input from her in the design process, but after that they chuck 5% of all sales her way or something. She handles some of the promotion and marketing. It's a compromise compared to a hand made device, but better than nothing for her fans, right?
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Does she even do merch? Quite a lot of the channels I like to watch seem to have started doing this in the last year or so, presumably it pays.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
I'm sure she gets a lot of horrible stuff, but she did mention that she is effectively banning viewers, and that doing this might be contributing to the algorithm punishing her.
Probably not the best approach if you need the get the numbers back up.
She is getting crushed by the algorithm though for probably more than one reason. I wouldn't like to be in that position.
My understanding is: Youtube really likes "interaction" - subscribing, leaving comments (positive or negative), thumbs up or down - so almost every channel begs for a thumbs up, leaving a comment and subscribing. I guess that's the way to please Youtube - probably more effective than looking for Patreons. Plus regular content.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
I'm sure she gets a lot of horrible stuff, but she did mention that she is effectively banning viewers, and that doing this might be contributing to the algorithm punishing her.
Probably not the best approach if you need the get the numbers back up.
She is getting crushed by the algorithm though for probably more than one reason. I wouldn't like to be in that position.
My understanding is: Youtube really likes "interaction" - subscribing, leaving comments (positive or negative), thumbs up or down - so almost every channel begs for a thumbs up, leaving a comment and subscribing. I guess that's the way to please Youtube - probably more effective than looking for Patreons. Plus regular content.
Then i am an incredibly bad watcher :D
I have even stopped subscribing to channels, because it does seem to matter to the algorithm, as a watcher. If i watched multiple videos on the same channel, videos from that channel will appear on the main page or the sidebar, whether i subscribe or not. It starts to let down a bit if i do not watch more though, and sometimes channels that rarely post videos seem to disappear. But again, it does not seem to matter whether i'm subscribed or not. For example i'm subscribed to the Floppotron guy, but i have not seen his latest videos on the main page.
So for me as a watcher, there is little to no visible incentive to interact.
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3) Get some extra income by getting into some decent profit margin branded merch or something else. My store for example brings in a huge chunk of my income. She has expressed that this is not easy where she is, but doesn't mean it's not an option.
And because you do teardowns and show the insides, those who buy the branded tools or merch are happy to pay the price asked. They both know what they're getting, but also who/what the profits support.
Similarly, Fran has both the Frantone stuff, as well as lots of old hardware she has showcased she could create branded replicas for; especially if showing some of the design/creation/tuning phases. People would pay for it, "for the brand", because that way they don't just buy a thing/tool for a task, but a thing with background, a story. We humans love stories.
There is this family up north in Finland that have reindeer, and make this amazing canned smoked reindeer (and also deer and moose) with spices and a bit of pork fat. They're the sort of family where kids are taught both effective computer use and media literacy, but also traditional stuff related to reindeer-keeping and old customs and all the tricks of living in the Arctic. I've told them that if they videoed their activities, especially keeping the kids along (as they normally do anyway), how they care for the animals, teach the kids, and even how they slaughter the animals with minimal pain (laws on this are very strict here in Finland) with respect –– how everything is used and nothing is wasted ––, and how the animals are appreciated for both themselves and what they provide, they could sell the cans for >10× markup on several markets with no volume limit. Ethically grown mostly free-range meat with a story you can follow. It's not possible for just anyone to do this, but this family is the kind where the grandparents and grandkids play soccer or make snowmen every day, and have many different ways of supporting themselves (not just reindeers), and for whatever reason, they're very likable people with funny personal quirks. They would be perfect for setting up this kind of brand, because they are rather unique combination. Of course, because of this, they're interested in the idea, but don't find it actually necessary to do it.
Same goes for Fran. The kind of brand we are talking about here is the kind with a real-world story/stories behind them, and people are quite happy to pay for those. Not just tools, but even branded merch, "stuff". Sure, not every single human would be interested, but enough would be for sure to make it work for a single person or family.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
I'm sure she gets a lot of horrible stuff, but she did mention that she is effectively banning viewers, and that doing this might be contributing to the algorithm punishing her.
Probably not the best approach if you need the get the numbers back up.
She is getting crushed by the algorithm though for probably more than one reason. I wouldn't like to be in that position.
My understanding is: Youtube really likes "interaction" - subscribing, leaving comments (positive or negative), thumbs up or down - so almost every channel begs for a thumbs up, leaving a comment and subscribing. I guess that's the way to please Youtube - probably more effective than looking for Patreons. Plus regular content.
I've been seeing more and more short videos lately that seem to be purposefully wrong, annoying, confusing or just pointless. I'm amazed how many views they get, how much the algo pushes them fwd. My guess is they annoy people and start arguements just to increase comments which the algo aparently cares more about than likes : dislikes.
Reminds me of a strategy I've seen people talking about lately: if no one is answering your question on a forum, make a new account and post the wrong answer. People will then give good, detailed answers and even stay up late to do so because 'someones wrong on the internet'.
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One thing she mentioned that caught my ear, and also someone commented on the video about it too, is that she said she bannes all "trolls" who leave negative comments.
There are a few youtube channels that are by far my favorite. I watch every video sometimes multiple times and I recommend them to friends.
I rarely comment on youtube but for these channels. Sometimes I back them up when people make inaccurate criticism. Other times I question or disagree with them. It means I'm interested in what they are saying and I'm offering a tiny bit of knowledge as thanks for the huge amount they've given me. Sometimes I'm just wondering why they have a different view, wondering if I'm missing something and hoping they'll explain.
I think the most engaged viewers are the ones that will question you. I'm not sure how Fran differentiates between negative troll, and engaged / inquizative fans but too much sensitivity here could lose some reliable followers.
I think one should be very careful about banning people. A lot of regular viewers may post something negative now and then, they are views like any other. If you ban everyone who ever says something negative pretty soon you have no viewers left.
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I've been seeing more and more short videos lately that seem to be purposefully wrong, annoying, confusing or just pointless. I'm amazed how many views they get, how much the algo pushes them fwd. My guess is they annoy people and start arguements just to increase comments which the algo aparently cares more about than likes : dislikes.
They seem to be trying to compete with TikTok, the popularity of which is baffling to me. I have yet to ever see anything from there that was worth watching and I go out of my way to avoid any of the "shorts" on youtube. Complete waste of time.
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Same goes for Fran. The kind of brand we are talking about here is the kind with a real-world story/stories behind them, and people are quite happy to pay for those. Not just tools, but even branded merch, "stuff". Sure, not every single human would be interested, but enough would be for sure to make it work for a single person or family.
Fran has done merch like T-shirts, I have a couple, but they are hand made by her using custom silk screen processeses and sent out to Patrons.
She now seems to realise the whole Patreon thing is almost nothing but a donation system, and it should be treated as such.
I've asked other electronic creators about Patreon and they all say the same thing, 5-10% enagement tops.
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She now seems to realise the whole Patreon thing is almost nothing but a donation system, and it should be treated as such.
I've asked other electronic creators about Patreon and they all say the same thing, 5-10% enagement tops.
That's pretty much what I had always assumed, and exactly how I would treat it. In fact it bothers me that they don't allow random one-off donations, there are a handful of creators I'd toss a few bucks to now and then but I'm allergic to recurring bills and can't be bothered to sign up and then cancel every time I want to donate.
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Same goes for Fran. The kind of brand we are talking about here is the kind with a real-world story/stories behind them, and people are quite happy to pay for those. Not just tools, but even branded merch, "stuff". Sure, not every single human would be interested, but enough would be for sure to make it work for a single person or family.
Fran has done merch like T-shirts, I have a couple, but they are hand made by her using custom silk screen processeses and sent out to Patrons.
She now seems to realise the whole Patreon thing is almost nothing but a donation system, and it should be treated as such.
I've asked other electronic creators about Patreon and they all say the same thing, 5-10% enagement tops.
Same for her pedals, as I said a couple times already, while I obviously can't guarantee any commercial success, she should just consider modernizing her designs and have her production outsourced. And forget about through-hole parts. But apparently she wants to keeps things very artisanal and seems to hate industrialization, so it's a lost cause. Artisanal stuff is great but it can't make you any money unless you stick to very high-end and very expensive stuff with very high margins. And apparently she's not into that either.
So I dunno, good luck.
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Same for her pedals, as I said a couple times already, while I obviously can't guarantee any commercial success, she should just consider modernizing her designs and have her production outsourced. And forget about through-hole parts. But apparently she wants to keeps things very artisanal and seems to hate industrialization, so it's a lost cause. Artisanal stuff is great but it can't make you any money unless you stick to very high-end and very expensive stuff with very high margins. And apparently she's not into that either.
She is actually getting into doing artworks as well, she has a video on this on Patreon as well.
The problem with pedals is that that's not her Youtube audience want. Like it or not she built an audience based on electronics and other randon stuff, not on music pedals.
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I liked her channel for the random oddball electronic gadgets and obscure display technologies, I never really watched any of the other topics she did.
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Same for her pedals, as I said a couple times already, while I obviously can't guarantee any commercial success, she should just consider modernizing her designs and have her production outsourced. And forget about through-hole parts. But apparently she wants to keeps things very artisanal and seems to hate industrialization, so it's a lost cause. Artisanal stuff is great but it can't make you any money unless you stick to very high-end and very expensive stuff with very high margins. And apparently she's not into that either.
She is actually getting into doing artworks as well, she has a video on this on Patreon as well.
The problem with pedals is that that's not her Youtube audience want. Like it or not she built an audience based on electronics and other randon stuff, not on music pedals.
Well, maybe, I don't know. She actually has a Frantone channel: https://www.youtube.com/@FrantoneElectronics/videos (https://www.youtube.com/@FrantoneElectronics/videos)
on which she has posted recent videos. Admittedly the number of subscribers is not ultra impressive, but posting more content on there may get her more traction.
Anyway, this audience thing is precisely one of the issues. Whatever she does, she should diversify IMO, and selling pedals (or some other stuff) would be complementary. As it is, she seems to rely almost solely on video creation and Patreon for the main chunk of her income and that's not exactly diversified. That's my point.
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Well, maybe, I don't know. She actually has a Frantone channel: https://www.youtube.com/@FrantoneElectronics/videos (https://www.youtube.com/@FrantoneElectronics/videos)
on which she has posted recent videos. Admittedly the number of subscribers is not ultra impressive, but posting more content on there may get her more traction.
Anyway, this audience thing is precisely one of the issues. Whatever she does, she should diversify IMO, and selling pedals (or some other stuff) would be complementary. As it is, she seems to rely almost solely on video creation and Patreon for the main chunk of her income and that's not exactly diversified. That's my point.
Sure. Not saying she shouldn't do pedals, could be a nice business if done right, but it's going to be hard to leverage the main Youtube audience.
But as with all such businesses it will be a return on time investment decision.
A run of say 100 boutique pedals at say even a large $100 margin per pedal only nets you $10k. Way less after tax.
The key would be to get someone else to do the manufacturing. But mentioned in videos before how the market is absolutely fooded with (decent?) quality chinese pedals at low cost. You really have the push the hand made with love boutique angle.
The good thing is that you can get video content out of the creation and manufacturing process.
Something like a "Let's restart a manufacturing business" series of video might be quite popular?
This is one of the reasons I'm looking for ready made products for my store that are otherside a bit hard to obtain and aren't being marketed well. I talk about this a bit in a new Odysee video:
https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7/exlcusive-BM036-unboxing:e (https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7/exlcusive-BM036-unboxing:e)
But I'm also thinking of starting my own pick'n'place line to make small run custom projects, not because it's time or financially economical, but because it make make for some fun interesting videos about the process.
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But as with all such businesses it will be a return on time investment decision.
A run of say 100 boutique pedals at say even a large $100 margin per pedal only nets you $10k. Way less after tax.
If she's in the "bleeding more than $10K/year" range of her business results currently, that $10K of gross profit would eat into those losses and no tax would be due on the (non-existent) profit. Once that flips over into a net profit, then she'd start paying taxes on the net profit.
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But as with all such businesses it will be a return on time investment decision.
A run of say 100 boutique pedals at say even a large $100 margin per pedal only nets you $10k. Way less after tax.
If she's in the "bleeding more than $10K/year" range of her business results currently, that $10K of gross profit would eat into those losses and no tax would be due on the (non-existent) profit. Once that flips over into a net profit, then she'd start paying taxes on the net profit.
IIRC she said that's not how it work in the US. Patreon and Youtube take the tax up front. Maybe the rest of the business might work like that I don't know. There is also state and federal tax.
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Again, they may *withhold* an estimated amount of taxes due, but that’s just a pre-payment and, if it’s an overpayment versus the actual amounts due, you get a refund.
If they withhold, it changes the timing of cash flows, but not the final net total.
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But as with all such businesses it will be a return on time investment decision.
A run of say 100 boutique pedals at say even a large $100 margin per pedal only nets you $10k. Way less after tax.
If she's in the "bleeding more than $10K/year" range of her business results currently, that $10K of gross profit would eat into those losses and no tax would be due on the (non-existent) profit. Once that flips over into a net profit, then she'd start paying taxes on the net profit.
IIRC she said that's not how it work in the US. Patreon and Youtube take the tax up front. Maybe the rest of the business might work like that I don't know. There is also state and federal tax.
It's actually not that complicated, just not what you're used to. There's whatever fees youtube and patreon charge, which aren't taxes at all, even if someone lumps them together when talking about them. There's federal withholding based on paperwork you've submitted (if no paperwork, then maximum rate). Ditto state withholding, depending on the state. Sales taxes, if applicable, based on the purchasers state (varies from 0% to maybe 10%). If more federal and state tax was withheld than you ended up owing, you get that back as a refund from each entity after filing your taxes for the year. So it's not lost money, its a credit against any taxes you owe. Employers do the same thing...withhold taxes with every paycheck. Same deal, and it avoids people getting to tax time and being unable to pay their taxes cause they don't know how to manage their money. In fact, unless you've been smart enough to file the right paperwork to correct the rate, MOST employed people end up with a refund (aka free loan to the government) on their US taxes.
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Again, they may *withhold* an estimated amount of taxes due, but that’s just a pre-payment and, if it’s an overpayment versus the actual amounts due, you get a refund.
If they withhold, it changes the timing of cash flows, but not the final net total.
Yes, but it also depends how her business (and lifestyle) is structured.
In theory she could have an LLC company and the company rents the apartment and other locations which would make them a company expense.
But if her income is classed as personal income then she'd be payign a lot of tax.
She has specifically said that tax is a big problem and takes a relatively large chunk of her income, not from a cash flow perspective but from a yearly total out-of-pocket perspective.
Her crowd funding got taxed a fair bit, not sure if that was state or federal.
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Hopefully Fran has an accountant. The fee for such a professional who knows the ins-and-outs of the tax system is rapidly paid back when they find a good way to save you a few percent here or there.
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Hopefully Fran has an accountant. The fee for such a professional who knows the ins-and-outs of the tax system is rapidly paid back when they find a good way to save you a few percent here or there.
My last accountant bill was about $8k :o
But yes, they know how to minimise my tax, and probably save me way more than that.
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Hopefully Fran has an accountant. The fee for such a professional who knows the ins-and-outs of the tax system is rapidly paid back when they find a good way to save you a few percent here or there.
That is only true if you are illiterate or totally uninterested in tax matters. Most of this stuff is pretty simple to deal with if you put your mind to it. Accountants love to boast about how much money they save but if they save a lot, it is likely shady and could possibly land you in trouble later on.
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That is only true if you are illiterate or totally uninterested in tax matters. Most of this stuff is pretty simple to deal with if you put your mind to it.
Ten years ago there were 6,102 pages of primary tax legislation and 639 numerical thresholds in that legislation (the numbers will have increased since). I wouldn't think that would be necessary if it is was simple. Further, HMRC themselves often get things wrong and don't have a clue what they're doing, so it's no surprise that someone who just wants to dick around with electronics is not au fait with the current legislation AND the potential for reducing the tax bill (and potential for landing an extra large bill plus fine). They don't need to be illiterate or totally uninterested to be overwhelmed by the stuff, and you are being offensive to suggest that. AND if you're a company you must have an accountant, and if you're merely working for yourself you'd be a fool not to use one just in case you're not actually as clever as you think you are with taxes.
That's the UK situation. I don't think other jurisdictions where EEVBlog members reside differ enormously.
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Seems like a catch-22. The only way to break it is to go get a well-paying job, fix her personal finances, buy real estate (with a YT business in mind), do this a few years. THEN, armed with savings, real estate, a good credit rating, and a career to fall back on if things aren't working out, move on to YT.
Frankly, the whole thing has that smell of "I'm going to do whatever I want and if I can't it's the world's fault." But the reality is no one owes me or anyone else squat.
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That is only true if you are illiterate or totally uninterested in tax matters. Most of this stuff is pretty simple to deal with if you put your mind to it.
Ten years ago there were 6,102 pages of primary tax legislation and 639 numerical thresholds in that legislation (the numbers will have increased since). I wouldn't think that would be necessary if it is was simple. Further, HMRC themselves often get things wrong and don't have a clue what they're doing, so it's no surprise that someone who just wants to dick around with electronics is not au fait with the current legislation AND the potential for reducing the tax bill (and potential for landing an extra large bill plus fine). They don't need to be illiterate or totally uninterested to be overwhelmed by the stuff, and you are being offensive to suggest that. AND if you're a company you must have an accountant, and if you're merely working for yourself you'd be a fool not to use one just in case you're not actually as clever as you think you are with taxes.
That's the UK situation. I don't think other jurisdictions where EEVBlog members reside differ enormously.
How do you climb a mountain? One step at a time... I really dislike people with a "can't do, impossible job, will fail" attitude. With such an attitude you won't get far and keep paying through the nose to have something done you can easely do yourself.
The first question is: how many of all those pages actually apply to the situation of an individual person? The answer: only a few. And what applies is a very beaten path so it is easy to get information about what is what. It is not like the situation of a sole proprietor is similar to Google with lots of employees and international branches. For big companies it makes sense to have tax lawyers and it is not unheard of that such companies sue to government in order to get a clarification on certain tax rules or even make special deals. But all of this is entirely unrelevant to an individual person running a small company with (maybe) a couple of employees.
And the kicker is that you'll always be responsible for what is handed over to the government's tax department. So as an individual or as a company owner you will have to know about what tax rules apply to you and whether you paid too much or too little. If your accountant makes an error, you (or your company) will be the one paying the fine (or worse: end up in jail).
If I look at what Dave is spending on an accountant I'd say: that is a lot of money for 2 weeks worth of work at most. And it is recurring every year so it is worthwhile to learn how to do that yourself. It is like making 8 grand in 2 weeks.
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how many of all those pages actually apply to the situation of an individual person?
1. You don't know what you don't know.
2. The discussion here is not for an employee-type single person but a business owner.
3. The UK government provide "a spreadsheet for measuring the relative complexity of parts of the UK tax system" (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/office-of-tax-simplification-complexity-index) (attached) which shows that most of it (even just income tax) is in the range medium..complex with few bits marked straightforward.
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how many of all those pages actually apply to the situation of an individual person?
1. You don't know what you don't know.
If you go that route, you can also question how reliable the accountant is that you hire to do the work for you. It wouldn't be the first time an expert is wrong.
The reality is that you can find information very easely at several places. Especially with internet. And you could just buy a book about the subject. How is that for an idea? A couple of years ago I wanted to understand more about setting up a 'limited' company so I simply bought a book about it and read it.
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The reality is that you can find information very easely at several places. Especially with internet. And you could just buy a book about the subject. How is that for an idea? A couple of years ago I wanted to understand more about setting up a 'limited' company so I simply bought a book about it and read it.
:palm:
If your assertion was correct, then nobody should hire university graduates either, because everything a worker needs to know is already on the internet.
The thing about a good accountant is twofold: 1) detail-oriented precision and accuracy, and 2) experience.
I've run a limited liability company, and did all accounting for a few years myself. Yes, one can do it. I got some books, went to some courses, and consulted quite a few experts –– funnily enough, here in Finland the tax office is very friendly to anyone who comes with accounting books and asks for details and reasons for some of the requirements/suggestions. The best accountants here do that often. No, the tax people here do not try to get you to pay a cent extra; they only want you to pay what the law says you need to. All the ones I met clearly wanted the company to succeed, not bled dry, and were happy to help me abide by the tax code. (I don't know if that is typical of Finns or universal, because I've only had to directly deal with the Finnish tax people.)
I would not be exaggerating much if I said the best service I've gotten in Finland was in a tax office. Funky. (As a normal private person the experience can be quite different, though.)
I'm telling you that whenever the business accounting work exceeds your personal accounting, it is time to get a dedicated expert to do it. They are experienced, and don't make mistakes like someone new to accounting might; they have the routines down pat. They have contacts they can use when a detail is unclear. It's just like with lawyers, especially copyright and patent law: you don't pay them for the time they spend with you, you pay for their expertise.
And yes, the hardest part about accountants is finding a good one with experience. Here, you need contacts among many small companies and entrepreneurs, so that you find out the ones to absolutely avoid.
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The reality is that you can find information very easely at several places. Especially with internet. And you could just buy a book about the subject. How is that for an idea? A couple of years ago I wanted to understand more about setting up a 'limited' company so I simply bought a book about it and read it.
:palm:
If your assertion was correct, then nobody should hire university graduates either, because everything a worker needs to know is already on the internet.
You missed the point that A) as a business owner you need to know what an accountant is doing (for multiple reasons; like asking the right questions, understanding & steering what the accountant is doing), B) there is a lot you can actually do yourself. Accounting and taxes is not something only magicians can do; information is easy to find and from there you can decide whether to do it yourself of outsource. Especially for things that turn up regulary -like taxes- you can save a lot of money by doing it yourself. Even if not perfect but still cheaper compared to outsourcing. Accountants are not cheap so just hiring an accountant from a Pavlov or fear of paperwork reaction isn't the right route to take.
Everytime this subject comes up some people knee-jerk to 'hire an accountant because you can't do it yourself and it will save you money'. But neither is necessarily true. Somebody with an engineering background and thus someone who should be used to working with numbers can get quite far. And where it comes to saving money I have just one question: how much is actually saved? Spending $1k on an accountant to save $200 is not sensible.
Also be aware that accountants have limitations as well. Many small companies use them as a source for legal help besides taxes (like HR stuff) while accountants don't have the deep knowledge to give good advice on that subject. The same goes for more advanced financial advise like how to deal with building a retirement fund. For the latter you need a financial planner / insurance expert.
The thing about a good accountant is twofold: 1) detail-oriented precision and accuracy, and 2) experience.
I'm telling you that whenever the business accounting work exceeds your personal accounting, it is time to get a dedicated expert to do it. They are experienced, and don't make mistakes like someone new to accounting might; they have the routines down pat. They have contacts they can use when a detail is unclear. It's just like with lawyers, especially copyright and patent law: you don't pay them for the time they spend with you, you pay for their expertise.
I agree. At some point your time is better spend elsewhere when running a big company.
BTW: I also have a very good relation with the tax office. As long as you stay polite and clear about what you want, a lot is possible. Over the years I had some audits from the tax office and never a problem.
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Hopefully Fran has an accountant. The fee for such a professional who knows the ins-and-outs of the tax system is rapidly paid back when they find a good way to save you a few percent here or there.
That is only true if you are illiterate or totally uninterested in tax matters. Most of this stuff is pretty simple to deal with if you put your mind to it. Accountants love to boast about how much money they save but if they save a lot, it is likely shady and could possibly land you in trouble later on.
In my case, the advantages are:
- Massive amount of time saved
- Software and bank account automation for reconciliation and tax reports.
- Extra time to put in my taxes (Oct deadline if DIY, April the next year if through a certified accountant), so delyed cash flow advantage
- The appearance of legitimacy to the tax department, and they deal with all tax department enquries. This is more important than you think. You generally won't get anally probed if you go through an accountant with a good track record.
- They can spit out reports for various needs at a moments notice
- They have direct portal access to the tax department to change thing.
- And obviously they are on top of all the latest tax legislation and all the other expertise that they bringing doing this for countless people every day.
My yearly business tax report is like 100 pages long. I just check a few things and sign on the dotted line.
Worth every cent and then some.
They do my business return, our personal tax returns, and our self managed super fund. Easy and painless.
If you are a Pty Ltd company in Australia and you do your own taxes, you are insane.
I used to do my own when I was a sole trader and granted, it's not too hard at that scale.
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how many of all those pages actually apply to the situation of an individual person?
1. You don't know what you don't know.
If you go that route, you can also question how reliable the accountant is that you hire to do the work for you. It wouldn't be the first time an expert is wrong.
The reality is that you can find information very easely at several places. Especially with internet.
Yes, that hhapened to me with my old accountant. He said I couldn't claim meals and he pointed to legislation saying that.
What he didn't know and what I discovered on my own research was that that was overridden by an special ammendment. He admitted I was right.
That doesn't mean I'm better off doing it myself, far from it as I pointed out last comment.
This photo is just my Pty Ltd business return last year. Does not include our two personal returns and our self managed super fund return, whcih will soon have it's own Pty Ltd company to handle it.
If you are a small Pty Ltd business and you are dong your own return here without professional accounting portal access (which only certified accountants can get), the tax department will flag you for the rubber glove treatment. Good luck.
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Seems like a catch-22. The only way to break it is to go get a well-paying job, fix her personal finances, buy real estate (with a YT business in mind), do this a few years. THEN, armed with savings, real estate, a good credit rating, and a career to fall back on if things aren't working out, move on to YT.
Frankly, the whole thing has that smell of "I'm going to do whatever I want and if I can't it's the world's fault." But the reality is no one owes me or anyone else squat.
She said in the recent Patreon video (which doesn't seem like she is going to release) that she is unemployable. Every employer will google her and put her in the "not dealing with that" bin. She used the example that because she has a large audience, no business if going to risk hiring her in case she "outs" them if there is some sort of grievence. And she's probably right.
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Seems like a catch-22. The only way to break it is to go get a well-paying job, fix her personal finances, buy real estate (with a YT business in mind), do this a few years. THEN, armed with savings, real estate, a good credit rating, and a career to fall back on if things aren't working out, move on to YT.
Frankly, the whole thing has that smell of "I'm going to do whatever I want and if I can't it's the world's fault." But the reality is no one owes me or anyone else squat.
She said in the recent Patreon video (which doesn't seem like she is going to release) that she is unemployable. Every employer will google her and put her in the "not dealing with that" bin. She used the example that because she has a large audience, no business if going to risk hiring her in case she "outs" them if there is some sort of grievence. And she's probably right.
For that reason they have NDAs so I don't see it as a particulary valid reason. Did she ever try to apply for a job that matches her skillset? I mean, Fran does have a lot of skills making all kinds of stuff so it shouldn't be particulary hard to find a job. Still, fitting in with the team is another thing but you can't really know that upfront and it depends on whether you are easy going or not.
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Seems like a catch-22. The only way to break it is to go get a well-paying job, fix her personal finances, buy real estate (with a YT business in mind), do this a few years. THEN, armed with savings, real estate, a good credit rating, and a career to fall back on if things aren't working out, move on to YT.
Frankly, the whole thing has that smell of "I'm going to do whatever I want and if I can't it's the world's fault." But the reality is no one owes me or anyone else squat.
She said in the recent Patreon video (which doesn't seem like she is going to release) that she is unemployable. Every employer will google her and put her in the "not dealing with that" bin. She used the example that because she has a large audience, no business if going to risk hiring her in case she "outs" them if there is some sort of grievence. And she's probably right.
For that reason they have NDAs so I don't see it as a particulary valid reason.
Nothign to do with releasing private company info that an NDA covers, it's about the bad press that could result from simply bad mouthing the company to a large audience. An NDA doesn't cover saying the company sucks and treated you poorly etc.
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Thickness of a tax return paper pile is not an indicator of how difficult it is to produce. Most of it gets generated by the computer based on a few dozen entries on the entry form.
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Seems like a catch-22. The only way to break it is to go get a well-paying job, fix her personal finances, buy real estate (with a YT business in mind), do this a few years. THEN, armed with savings, real estate, a good credit rating, and a career to fall back on if things aren't working out, move on to YT.
Frankly, the whole thing has that smell of "I'm going to do whatever I want and if I can't it's the world's fault." But the reality is no one owes me or anyone else squat.
She said in the recent Patreon video (which doesn't seem like she is going to release) that she is unemployable. Every employer will google her and put her in the "not dealing with that" bin. She used the example that because she has a large audience, no business if going to risk hiring her in case she "outs" them if there is some sort of grievence. And she's probably right.
For that reason they have NDAs so I don't see it as a particulary valid reason.
Nothign to do with releasing private company info that an NDA covers, it's about the bad press that could result from simply bad mouthing the company to a large audience. An NDA doesn't cover saying the company sucks and treated you poorly etc.
Perhaps NDA is the wrong term but I guess there are some legal constructs to prevent people from talking bad about a company. Also, there is something like slander as well. Besides that, bad mouthing a former employer you left recently, reflects bad on yourself in the first place.
Edit: it looks like the proper term is anti-defamation and anti-slander clauses in an employment contract.
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Thickness of a tax return paper pile is not an indicator of how difficult it is to produce. Most of it gets generated by the computer based on a few dozen entries on the entry form.
Generated by the program, yes. From a few dozen entries, no, not even close.
That's not the point though. The point is knowing how the entire system works, having direct tax department portal access, knowing what they want and how they want it, etc etc.
If you are an individual small business owner doing this yourself, you are crazy IMO. But YMMV
BTW, mine business is a bit complex and requires more time and effort than an ordinary small business. You could probably get a simple business done for a couple of grand a year. Absolute no-brainer business decision.
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Perhaps NDA is the wrong term but I guess there are some legal constructs to prevent people from talking bad about a company. Also, there is something like slander as well. Besides that, bad mouthing a former employer you left recently, reflects bad on yourself in the first place.
Edit: it looks like the proper term is anti-defamation and anti-slander clauses in an employment contract.
Yes, but the point is the mere threat of something like that happening means they are going to put you in the "why take the risk" basket. Especially if it's just a regular job they can hire anyone else for.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try though. She did talk about it in the video so maybe she is thinking of it.
I agree that trying to score a decent job and getting on your feet finanically is certainly worth considering. If it means being able to do that for a year or two and then getting a loan for a property, even in Philly, would solve a major problem.
The thing is, her Patreon and Youtueb income really isn't going to change if she got a day job, she could easily keep the channel going after hours. She's single, can burn the midnight oil, and can keep doing relatively simple to produce videos.
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There are jobs where they may not care, government for example. In Seattle they have had trouble hiring enough transit bus drivers, I saw a thing in the mail that they'll even pay for training. Surely Philly has a large transit system, doesn't take take any special skillset to drive a bus. Maybe some kind of maintenance gig, she obviously knows a thing or two about electrical and mechanical stuff.
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Seems like a catch-22. The only way to break it is to go get a well-paying job, fix her personal finances, buy real estate (with a YT business in mind), do this a few years. THEN, armed with savings, real estate, a good credit rating, and a career to fall back on if things aren't working out, move on to YT.
Frankly, the whole thing has that smell of "I'm going to do whatever I want and if I can't it's the world's fault." But the reality is no one owes me or anyone else squat.
She said in the recent Patreon video (which doesn't seem like she is going to release) that she is unemployable. Every employer will google her and put her in the "not dealing with that" bin. She used the example that because she has a large audience, no business if going to risk hiring her in case she "outs" them if there is some sort of grievence. And she's probably right.
For that reason they have NDAs so I don't see it as a particulary valid reason.
Nothign to do with releasing private company info that an NDA covers, it's about the bad press that could result from simply bad mouthing the company to a large audience. An NDA doesn't cover saying the company sucks and treated you poorly etc.
Yes absolutely. I don't see the link with NDAs that only cover not disclosing confidential information, basically.
But bad mouthing is usually covered by a loyalty clause that should be in most employees contract. I don't really see someone having a large audience as being an obstacle to being employed really. I don't buy that. It could even benefit some companies/positions. And if the loyalty clause is not enough, the company can always add a clause in the contract to prevent you from saying anything negative about the company or any of its products for as long as the contract holds. As long as both parties agree. So this whole argument sounds moot to me.
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But bad mouthing is usually covered by a loyalty clause that should be in most employees contract. I don't really see someone having a large audience as being an obstacle to being employed really.
Unless you are actually in that position, than you might find out the hard way.
I don't buy that. It could even benefit some companies/positions.
That's the trick, finding someone who can utilise your exposure. I think Fran should be put out a video asking if anyone wants to hire her, you never know who'll see it.
And if the loyalty clause is not enough, the company can always add a clause in the contract to prevent you from saying anything negative about the company or any of its products for as long as the contract holds. As long as both parties agree.
Why would they bother going to any extra legal effort for an average job they can give to anyone?
You likely won't even get past the HR department background check, and that's the point.
I've been turned down for jobs because I had a public website, even before Youtube.
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BTW, mine business is a bit complex and requires more time and effort than an ordinary small business. You could probably get a simple business done for a couple of grand a year. Absolute no-brainer business decision.
Ours is a complex business with multiple entities and several sub-consultants. We use Xero to do our own coding and GST, but the total cost per year including the Accountant to do _all_ the official stuff is less than $4k, and that includes all the business registrations.
I used to pay someone to do the whole lot, and it was 3 times that. I then paid our current accountant to teach me how to do the 2 hours per month work it takes, and we're _way_ ahead.
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BTW, mine business is a bit complex and requires more time and effort than an ordinary small business. You could probably get a simple business done for a couple of grand a year. Absolute no-brainer business decision.
Ours is a complex business with multiple entities and several sub-consultants. We use Xero to do our own coding and GST, but the total cost per year including the Accountant to do _all_ the official stuff is less than $4k, and that includes all the business registrations.
I used to pay someone to do the whole lot, and it was 3 times that. I then paid our current accountant to teach me how to do the 2 hours per month work it takes, and we're _way_ ahead.
Mine's about double that, sometimes less than that depending on individual stuff that year and dealing with the tax depertment. But that includes our personal tax returns, investments, Pty Ltd company, foreign currency stuff, crypto, and all the book keeping. I do zero coding or book work. About a few hours work per year to collate some stuff at tax time and that's it.
A friend of mine pays $25k/year for his business with half a dozen employees. Was shocked to hear I only pay $8k including personal returns and investments.
Started out about $3k/year but has slowly crept up as my business has grown, and it was way easier to have them do the personla returns as well whcih we used to do ourselves.
As I said, one huge advantage is that you get to delay your taxes by 6 months by having a certified accountant do it.
There is absolutely no way you could ever convince me to go back to doing my own taxes. Screw that.
EDIT: I do use myob essentials for the new stupid payroll legislation stuff though, few minutes work per month.
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Why would they bother going to any extra legal effort for an average job they can give to anyone?
Yep but that's true for pretty much anyone for an "average job" anyway. They'll sure select the "easiest" profile. But shouldn't she (or people in her shoes) go for less average jobs if they want to get an employed position anyway? Now of course, the fact that she doesn't want to move is here too a major block. Severly limits her options, not just for housing, but for jobs too.
You likely won't even get past the HR department background check, and that's the point.
I've been turned down for jobs because I had a public website, even before Youtube.
I don't know if it's really because the person has public exposure per se and they fear badmouthing, or rather just because the person has an independent mindset - HR people often don't like that. People showing the mindset of an independent worker, even if it's just because they have a website (about their field of expertise of course, not just a random blog about cooking), make them uncomfortable. They think they'll never know if you'll be a loyal employee and won't just quit at any time just because you want to run your own business.
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Why would they bother going to any extra legal effort for an average job they can give to anyone?
Yep but that's true for pretty much anyone for an "average job" anyway. They'll sure select the "easiest" profile. But shouldn't she (or people in her shoes) go for less average jobs if they want to get an employed position anyway? Now of course, the fact that she doesn't want to move is here too a major block. Severly limits her options, not just for housing, but for jobs too.
Yes, that's what I'd do if I was her. I'd put the word out that I'm open for jobs in my field of expertise, consulting work, promotion, etc.
I only mention it because she has used the example of a checkout person at the local supermarket etc in videos.
I don't know if it's really because the person has public exposure per se and they fear badmouthing, or rather just because the person has an independent mindset - HR people often don't like that. People showing the mindset of an independent worker, even if it's just because they have a website (about their field of expertise of course, not just a random blog about cooking), make them uncomfortable. They think they'll never know if you'll be a loyal employee and won't just quit at any time just because you want to run your own business.
Yes, but same end result either way, no job for you.
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The art video was released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhpn5ROpeeA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhpn5ROpeeA)
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Feels more like yet another patreon/funding/problems video to me. :(
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"Hey Fran, When are the block prints you're making going to be for sale?"
"Oh, you mean all these prints that are already made and dried and getting in my way around the space? Here's a long answer as to why I don't really intend to sell those things, even though people are asking me if they can buy them..." :-//
State sales tax nexus is fairly straightforward to figure out. Fran wouldn't be obligated to collect and remit sales tax in most cases, unless her sales were so strong that her financial worries would be over:
https://www.avalara.com/us/en/learn/guides/state-by-state-guide-economic-nexus-laws.html (https://www.avalara.com/us/en/learn/guides/state-by-state-guide-economic-nexus-laws.html)
Very few places have local sales taxes. Those that do tend to be in states with high economic nexus threshold.
State and Federal Income taxes are something that Fran is already dealing with.
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State sales tax nexus is fairly straightforward to figure out. Fran wouldn't be obligated to collect and remit sales tax in most cases, unless her sales were so strong that her financial worries would be over:
https://www.avalara.com/us/en/learn/guides/state-by-state-guide-economic-nexus-laws.html (https://www.avalara.com/us/en/learn/guides/state-by-state-guide-economic-nexus-laws.html)
Very few places have local sales taxes. Those that do tend to be in states with high economic nexus threshold.
So sales under $100k she pays no state tax at all?
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There are income taxes (on profits) and sales taxes (on revenue, typically paid by the buyer [above the revenue line for the seller, but collected and remitted by the seller]). Sales taxes are like GST/VAT, but only charged on the final retail sale (and added on top of the advertised price).
If Fran sells below the threshold to have economic nexus in a foreign state (other than Pennsylvania), she won’t have to fool with sales taxes in that other state. She may have to do it in PA because her business is there.
Separately, if she sells enough to make a profit after expenses, she will owe income taxes on the profit, both federally and to the state. That’s a good problem to have, and avoiding it by not selling anything isn’t particularly productive.
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This is enough work and trouble that she'll need an accountant, like many other small business owners do. The whole deal again is not really how complex it is (just pay someone qualified, as Dave does), but how much you'll make a year to cover all your expenses and hopefully get some extra.
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This is enough work and trouble that she'll need an accountant, like many other small business owners do. The whole deal again is not really how complex it is (just pay someone qualified, as Dave does), but how much you'll make a year to cover all your expenses and hopefully get some extra.
Yeah, I don't know why you'd even mention it in a video. Just sell stuff with a decent margin and pay an accountant.
I collect 10% GST on Aussie sales and give that to the government, and pay company tax (25%) on any profits. I pay myself a wage (which is a company expense) and pay tax personally at my tiered pesonal tax rate (they make it so you can't avoid tax either way you do it).
No real state based taxes here to worry about.
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If you send a paper tax return into the Tax Man here they would post it back to you with a strongly worded letter to do it online. I speak from experience :-;
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This is enough work and trouble that she'll need an accountant, like many other small business owners do. The whole deal again is not really how complex it is (just pay someone qualified, as Dave does), but how much you'll make a year to cover all your expenses and hopefully get some extra.
Yeah, I don't know why you'd even mention it in a video. Just sell stuff with a decent margin and pay an accountant.
I collect 10% GST on Aussie sales and give that to the government, and pay company tax (25%) on any profits. I pay myself a wage (which is a company expense) and pay tax personally at my tiered pesonal tax rate (they make it so you can't avoid tax either way you do it).
No real state based taxes here to worry about.
I started using a tax return preparer when I went into business with a couple partners some years ago. That ended 20 years ago and I still use one. Its about an hours work for me to stuff all of the relevant paperwork (for both my wife and I) into an envelope and send it to her. For a relatively small fee she takes into account some tax rules I couldn't even guess about, does the data entry, posts it to Revenue Canada and both wife and I get a nice refund by direct deposit which far outweighs her fee. Easy-Peasy. Why do it any other way?
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I get a nice refund by direct deposit
:palm: That is excess money you paid earlier on. It is like buying your own Christmas gift. Maybe you should think about somebody else to do your taxes so you are not lending money to the government.
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I get a nice refund by direct deposit
:palm: That is excess money you paid earlier on. It is like buying your own Christmas gift. Maybe you should think about somebody else to do your taxes so you are not lending money to the government.
We often get a refund because:
- We pay quarterly,
- our income and taxes are unpredictable,
- we always file an extension because the end-of-year statements we need don't arrive until mid-Q1 at best,
- and year-end tax-planning (such as harvesting losses) can have a big impact,
- and the IRS charges fees, interest, and penalties for under-payment.
So we try to predict as best we can and over-pay as we feel appropriate. Any refund gets applied to our Q1 payment.
But yes, if I still got a regular paycheck or otherwise predictable income I would attempt to avoid overpayment.
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Getting slightly off-topic, but not so much as many find tax stuff much too complex to the point of either refusing to do some types of activities, or having to resort to specialists.
I do think tax systems in most countries are too intricate and cumbersome, and people responsible for collecting taxes should be the ones to help the taxed, not the other way around, and they should even help people optimize their taxes. They should not be seen as willing to screw you up. This would make everyone's life dramatically better. And it should also all be drastically simplified.
This is just making small business's lives a royal pain while large companies have no problem paying entire departments of people to optimize and even evade taxation to a large extent.
And if you feel like your tax system is already too complex, you haven't seen it all. Over here it's so complex that the whole thing is described in many very large books forming close to an encyclopedia, that is absolutely nuts.
Just my 2 cents.
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and people responsible for collecting taxes should be the ones to help the taxed, not the other way around
Sounds like you think tax is a penalty, whereas it's actually a contribution to the community. But then politicians (and police) are supposed to be working for us whereas an alien passing by would assume the opposite.
One mitigation is that if everyone sorts their own tax then it should tax barely any time. If the tax authority has to do it then it takes <size of population>/<size of tax office> times as long. And the tax payer will be paying those wages.
Otherwise I agree that it can be complicated and it can be difficult to get any assistance from the tax people. Here, that's what we expect from any government department, unfortunately :(
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Because as soon as you add Lawyers to any problem it just gets messy. The only people who can afford Lawyers are wealthy enough to need them to hide the money. It amasing the amount of legal loopholes that they use that if the average person was to try would end up at the wrong end if the tax man.
Copyright is another thing messed up by the same people.
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Talking about the possible reversing of gentrification in some cities.
Maybe a city will offer tax/financial incenties for artists and creators to move into live/work spaces? I can see some governments throwing money at that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTHFuYP5duI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTHFuYP5duI)
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Maybe a city will offer tax/financial incenties for artists and creators to move into live/work spaces? I can see some governments throwing money at that.
If they own it they can do what they like however if renting why would your landlord want to expose their premises to 24/7 wear and tear associated with a live/work lease.
Instead commercial 40hrs/week wear and tear risk is more attractive to the landlord unless there are just not those tenants available.
A buddy with several commercial properties flatly refuses to have any live in tenants.
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Depends on the country, of course, but generally it can take months longer to evict a resident tenant than a business-only tenant if they stop paying. Which is money lost for them.
As for wear and tear, that really depends on the business. They could run 3 shifts and use the place 24/7, in some cases.
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Depends on the country, of course, but generally it can take months longer to evict a resident tenant than a business-only tenant if they stop paying. Which is money lost for them.
As for wear and tear, that really depends on the business. They could run 3 shifts and use the place 24/7, in some cases.
Here there is usually no limit to how many hours you can use a commercial space, so you can usr it 24/7 if you want, but there is allmost always a "no living" clause that prevent sleeping there.
Techically, even though I own my lab, if Mrs EEVblog booted me out of the house then I technically couldn't sleep there according to the strata agreement.
Here there is usually a "make good" clause where you have the return a commercial premesis to the same state you got it in (almost always A grade here), re-paint clauses etc.
I got out of re-painting my rented 100sqm lab because it has just been painted before I moved in, and I put nothing on the walls and cleaned it.
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Maybe a city will offer tax/financial incenties for artists and creators to move into live/work spaces? I can see some governments throwing money at that.
If they own it they can do what they like however if renting why would your landlord want to expose their premises to 24/7 wear and tear associated with a live/work lease.
Government subsidy money print go brrrrr.
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Depends on the country, of course, but generally it can take months longer to evict a resident tenant than a business-only tenant if they stop paying. Which is money lost for them.
As for wear and tear, that really depends on the business. They could run 3 shifts and use the place 24/7, in some cases.
Here there is usually no limit to how many hours you can use a commercial space, so you can usr it 24/7 if you want, but there is allmost always a "no living" clause that prevent sleeping there.
Techically, even though I own my lab, if Mrs EEVblog booted me out of the house then I technically couldn't sleep there according to the strata agreement.
I'm guessing that will never be enforced unless someone catches you walking around the public areas in your boxer shorts, on the way to the bathroom, then dobs you in.
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Talking about the possible reversing of gentrification in some cities.
Maybe a city will offer tax/financial incenties for artists and creators to move into live/work spaces? I can see some governments throwing money at that.
Wishful thinking. When has reverse gentrification ever happened anywhere? What is in it for the cities to do that? The cities have every incentive to gentrify as much as possible and attract as many high income earners and high value properties as possible because expensive property and high earners bring far more tax revenue.
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I'm guessing that will never be enforced unless someone catches you walking around the public areas in your boxer shorts, on the way to the bathroom, then dobs you in.
Yeah, I'm almost always the only one in the building after hours. And I shower down the corridor after the gym, so I doubt anyone would know if I actually slept there.
And yes it would be complaint based anyway.
It's just a technical clause to prevent anyone from turning an office into an apartment.
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Wishful thinking. When has reverse gentrification ever happened anywhere? What is in it for the cities to do that? The cities have every incentive to gentrify as much as possible and attract as many high income earners and high value properties as possible because expensive property and high earners bring far more tax revenue.
Reading the article it actually seems to be a form of gentrification, turning unrented office space into apartments. Difference is they mention artists etc so office space into work/live space.
Essentially just changing zoning/strata laws I guess?
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After COVID, there are many more remote workers. Especially in very expensive cities. This piece from Bloomberg compares (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/pret-index/) the foot traffic at a chain of sandwich shops before and well after the pandemic lockdowns. Visits in NYC are down to 40-50% of its pre-COVID high across the board, whereas surprisingly the British are mostly returning to normal*. With office blocks and retail units going empty, I'm not surprised landlords want to find something else to fill them.
There are a few problems though. Often, the rents on those units are implied by the mortgage; the bank lends $X to buy a property on the assumption that rent of, say, $X/25 per annum can be charged. Well, it's much less likely a resident can afford the rent that a commercial unit would carry, unless the rental units are more split up, which tends to lead to rather inefficient use of space. Residential units also require more upkeep, have stricter regulations (not sure about the US, but things like heating and plumbing systems are usually the landlord's responsibility in the UK, and it can become a life-safety issue if heating fails in winter) and these tend to be let for shorter periods of time. It's also more likely that a residential tenant will default on their rent and then be very difficult to remove. Charging less rent to attract tenants is often prohibited by the bank, because it effectively devalues the property.
I suspect we will see a crash in commercial property values in the longer term, because landlords aren't going to be able to cover mortgages on no rent, and aren't allowed to charge less to tenants that are willing to pay.
*I do find this an interesting anomaly; but I note most companies in the UK are going to a three days in the office hybrid model rather than fully remote. Not sure what's typical in the US, I've heard some Bay Area companies are still fully or mostly (>4 days/week avg) remote.
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... and aren't allowed to charge less to tenants that are willing to pay
Gosh, didn't know that.
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I suspect we will see a crash in commercial property values in the longer term, because landlords aren't going to be able to cover mortgages on no rent, and aren't allowed to charge less to tenants that are willing to pay.
Sadly not happening in my business park. Commercial property if still at record highs and there is hardly any stock, and what there is still sells quickly.
I'd love to buy a bigger lab but I suspect I'll never be able to.
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... and aren't allowed to charge less to tenants that are willing to pay
Gosh, didn't know that.
Apparently, the biggest problem is due to these mortgages being sold off as "parcelised" financial instruments. Any change to the terms for one mortgage needs to be agreed with upwards of 100 institutions.
This is one reason you see so many town centres (at least in some areas) full of empty units. In theory there's no shortfall of willing tenants, but there is a shortfall of tenants able to pay the £/$10k per month that unit demands.
It needs to change, but it'll only change with government intervention (or the market falling apart) and that'll only happen if the government is willing to cause another run on the markets, so pretty unlikely. A lot of those mortgage instruments are bought by pension funds too, seen as a fairly secure investment up until now.
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I suspect we will see a crash in commercial property values in the longer term, because landlords aren't going to be able to cover mortgages on no rent, and aren't allowed to charge less to tenants that are willing to pay.
Sadly not happening in my business park. Commercial property if still at record highs and there is hardly any stock, and what there is still sells quickly.
I'd love to buy a bigger lab but I suspect I'll never be able to.
Problem of course is that the crash is looking to be happening, but when it hits hard enough, odds are that the economy will be so bad that many small businesses will have a hard time even buying cheap properties.
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I do find this an interesting anomaly; but I note most companies in the UK are going to a three days in the office hybrid model rather than fully remote. Not sure what's typical in the US, I've heard some Bay Area companies are still fully or mostly (>4 days/week avg) remote.
Prior to the pandemic my employer had a hybrid schedule with 3 days in the office and 2 days remote. We went fully remote during the pandemic and have struggled to get people back to even 1 day a week consistently in the office. The problem with office space is that for coming into the office to make sense, everyone, or at least whole teams need to pretty much all come in on the same day(s). Whether you all come in one day a week or 5 doesn't impact the amount of office space you need.
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Whether you all come in one day a week or 5 doesn't impact the amount of office space you need.
You could stagger the team days so only one team is in at a time. And/or share with another company, alternating days. Or meet up in a different pub each week.
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Talking about the possible reversing of gentrification in some cities.
Maybe a city will offer tax/financial incenties for artists and creators to move into live/work spaces? I can see some governments throwing money at that.
Wishful thinking. When has reverse gentrification ever happened anywhere? What is in it for the cities to do that? The cities have every incentive to gentrify as much as possible and attract as many high income earners and high value properties as possible because expensive property and high earners bring far more tax revenue.
It's not always up to the cities to make those decisions.
Provincial governments sometimes make slums despite strong opposition from the local taxpayers and their city councils. They even use numbered companies to hide their identity when purchasing.
When city councils push back, the province threatens to set up tent cities and override zoning decisions.
The locals hate it but many voters want to live in the best areas without paying the market rate. The provincial government of BC just announced $500M to buy their votes.
to provide one time, capital grants to non-profit housing organizations to purchase affordable rental buildings and co-ops that are listed for sale.
BC premier believes a newly created rental protection fund will keep thousands of rental units from slipping into the hands of "housing speculators and profiteers" for decades to come.
If they did this for hard working people that'd be one thing but they tend to prioritize people who do the least work and the most drugs and crime. They even include supervised drug consumption rooms for them.
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It's not always up to the cities to make those decisions.
Provincial governments sometimes make slums despite strong opposition from the local taxpayers and their city councils. They even use numbered companies to hide their identity when purchasing.
When city councils push back, the province threatens to set up tent cities and override zoning decisions.
The locals hate it but many voters want to live in the best areas without paying the market rate. The provincial government of BC just announced $500M to buy their votes.
to provide one time, capital grants to non-profit housing organizations to purchase affordable rental buildings and co-ops that are listed for sale.
BC premier believes a newly created rental protection fund will keep thousands of rental units from slipping into the hands of "housing speculators and profiteers" for decades to come.
If they did this for hard working people that'd be one thing but they tend to prioritize people who do the least work and the most drugs and crime. They even include supervised drug consumption rooms for them.
They're trying to do something like that in my state. Our awful governor that has been in office for a decade has been pushing a bill that would allow construction of 4-plexes in all residential neighborhoods in cities with over 6000 residents which would include my neighborhood. This is infuriating because I bought a home on a dead end street in a suburban neighborhood zoned for single family homes specifically because that's what I want to live in. If multifamily homes were allowed at the time I wouldn't have bought there. Governments shouldn't be able to change the zoning of a neighborhood without a vote from the people that live there.
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They're trying to do something about that in my state. Our awful governor that has been in office for a decade has been pushing a bill that would allow construction of 4-plexes in all residential neighborhoods in cities with over 6000 residents which would include my neighborhood. [..]
I wish we had politicians as brave as that here! We need more homes (and in places people actually want to live, not just in more urban sprawl.)
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They're trying to do something about that in my state. Our awful governor that has been in office for a decade has been pushing a bill that would allow construction of 4-plexes in all residential neighborhoods in cities with over 6000 residents which would include my neighborhood. [..]
I wish we had politicians as brave as that here! We need more homes (and in places people actually want to live, not just in more urban sprawl.)
Hell no, just no !
The urban sprawl don’t matter one shit if it’s not consuming productive land but above all there must be planned provision for local employment by way of industrial and commercial zoning.
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Hell no, just no !
The urban sprawl don’t matter one shit if it’s not consuming productive land but above all there must be planned provision for local employment by way of industrial and commercial zoning.
Yeah, it does though.
We cannot continue building suburbs that are entirely car dependent. They are huge cost sinks (roads cost a lot to maintain but lots of single family homes don't generate much revenue), bad for health (because there's little to no opportunity to walk or cycle to just about anywhere) and cause more pollution.
It's okay to have detached homes (after all, families need space) but they should be mixed in a neighbourhood with terraced homes, apartments (not tall ones, but 3-4 stories) and businesses. Not just single family home, one after another in indefinite sprawl.
It's OK to use a car, often times necessary, but in the urban sprawl that typifies American (and many Australian) cities is counterproductive. We can do better.
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They're trying to do something about that in my state. Our awful governor that has been in office for a decade has been pushing a bill that would allow construction of 4-plexes in all residential neighborhoods in cities with over 6000 residents which would include my neighborhood. [..]
I wish we had politicians as brave as that here! We need more homes (and in places people actually want to live, not just in more urban sprawl.)
That doesn't take bravery, it takes a lack of: morals, common sense and respect for democracy.
It takes a dictator to force zoning changes after people have bought into it. It forces change on people who are the most commited and have contributed the most to an area just to make space for other people who don't want to change themselves.
Fran for example, could make slight changes to her career or location and solve her own problem. That would also help people in similar situations by reducing demand and putting downward pressure on prices.
Some people don't want to change themselves or help others, they just want the government to give them stuff and they somehow don't seem to care that it means stealing from others.
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We cannot continue building suburbs that are entirely car dependent. [...]bad for health (because there's little to no opportunity to walk or cycle to just about anywhere) and cause more pollution.
Walking and biking around a dense neighborhood is the least fun and least healthy way to get exercise.
Imagine a family with a house where they work from home, grow food in their yard and grocery shop once a week. They exercise in their home gym, doing yard work, shovelling snow and in nearby nature.
Compare that to people who live in crowded and noisey apartment. They can't stand to be in it for even 1 day without escaping to an office, a coffee shop and a gym. They create a need for multiple locations running HVAC and lighting. They breath pollution everywhere they go. They eat extra food to replace the calories they burn constantly walking in circles. They go to the grocery store almost daily because they have little space for food storage. Food they buy gets trucked in from far away. Twice a week they drive 2 hours to go to the beach, ski hill, hiking, etc.
Obviously this is a skewed view but just to show, living in dense neighborhoods isn't always better for your health, or our planets health.
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I wish we had politicians as brave as that here! We need more homes (and in places people actually want to live, not just in more urban sprawl.)
You actually want tyrants that override the wishes of the citizens? ??? We don't need more homes, we need fewer people. You absolutely cannot build your way to affordable housing when you have a limited amount of space and an effectively unlimited demand. Building more housing draws more people, and ruining the suburbs by turning them into developments of multifamily complexes drives sprawl by forcing people like me to move further out. I had planned to stay here but already I'm planning to move out to a more rural area when I retire.
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We cannot continue building suburbs that are entirely car dependent. They are huge cost sinks (roads cost a lot to maintain but lots of single family homes don't generate much revenue), bad for health (because there's little to no opportunity to walk or cycle to just about anywhere) and cause more pollution.
It's okay to have detached homes (after all, families need space) but they should be mixed in a neighbourhood with terraced homes, apartments (not tall ones, but 3-4 stories) and businesses. Not just single family home, one after another in indefinite sprawl.
It's OK to use a car, often times necessary, but in the urban sprawl that typifies American (and many Australian) cities is counterproductive. We can do better.
Well those areas you are saying we can't have are the only areas I'm willing to live in, and this is an issue I'm willing to go to any lengths to fight for. It amounts to driving me out of my home, and it is a very serious issue. I would support violence if necessary to overthrow anyone that tries to force this on me.
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Obviously this is a skewed view but just to show, living in dense neighborhoods isn't always better for your health, or our planets health.
Dense neighborhoods are not good for my mental health, they are absolutely intolerable, it is making me feel stressed just thinking about it. I'm like a cat, I need space, it is not a want, it is a need as important as food and oxygen. Cooped up in a dense urban apartment would literally drive me insane.
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Cooped up in a dense urban apartment would literally drive me insane.
You and me both. Years ago I lived in a 1100 sq ft apartment. Hearing my neighbors and dealing with strata drove me mad. Even a 300 sq ft carriage house was a vast improvement compared to that.
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Obviously this is a skewed view but just to show, living in dense neighborhoods isn't always better for your health, or our planets health.
Dense neighborhoods are not good for my mental health, they are absolutely intolerable, it is making me feel stressed just thinking about it. I'm like a cat, I need space, it is not a want, it is a need as important as food and oxygen. Cooped up in a dense urban apartment would literally drive me insane.
1000% with James here as recently in Auckland NZ our green leaning gubbermint decreed that all suburbs were to allow infill development allowing up to 3 stories and 3 titles to be created from each of our traditional 1/4 acre sections effectively raising 2 fingers to decades or urban suburb zoning and the residents that have purchased there for whatever reason !
Just who do they think they are, gubbermint or not decreeing that population density was not to their liking and riding roughshod over residents and councils decades of carefully structured zoning.
The absolutely dumb higher proportion of these affected residents just swallowed this garbage with only the vision of the substantial capital gain they were to make while the more invested residents have to sit back and watch their community get devastated in such a way they no longer want to live there.
This would be bad enough if a newly elected local council was to ride roughshod over residents wishes but for a gubbermint it's appalling behaviour as they have no business at all steering how communities develop.
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Well those areas you are saying we can't have are the only areas I'm willing to live in, and this is an issue I'm willing to go to any lengths to fight for. It amounts to driving me out of my home, and it is a very serious issue. I would support violence if necessary to overthrow anyone that tries to force this on me.
Nobody is going to get violent over this. You'll just see your local area get worse and worse and essential services will get cut as the growth of a city fails to bring in enough tax to maintain it. So more potholes, less frequent bin collections, water leaks and sewerage problems, bridges in need of critical repair, unweeded paths and roads etc.
Suburbia, at least in the US, is basically a gigantic Ponzi scheme and cities are going bankrupt over it. They are only sustainable as long as the city continues to grow, as the new developers fund the existing maintenance. The problem is you can't even tax your way out of it. If suburbanites had to pay the actual cost per mi^2 of the infrastructure they depend upon, they'd be looking at something close to a $30k/year annual tax bill. That's the problem, you just can't have taxation that high. Enjoy the life while you can, but if you continue voting for politicians that insist on NIMBYist policy that prohibits density at all costs, then you will eventually see the consequences of that upon your local area (and, too, upon the value of your property.)
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Nobody is going to get violent over this. You'll just see your local area get worse and worse and essential services will get cut as the growth of a city fails to bring in enough tax to maintain it. So more potholes, less frequent bin collections, water leaks and sewerage problems, bridges in need of critical repair, unweeded paths and roads etc.
Suburbia, at least in the US, is basically a gigantic Ponzi scheme and cities are going bankrupt over it. They are only sustainable as long as the city continues to grow, as the new developers fund the existing maintenance. The problem is you can't even tax your way out of it. If suburbanites had to pay the actual cost per mi^2 of the infrastructure they depend upon, they'd be looking at something close to a $30k/year annual tax bill. That's the problem, you just can't have taxation that high. Enjoy the life while you can, but if you continue voting for politicians that insist on NIMBYist policy that prohibits density at all costs, then you will eventually see the consequences of that upon your local area (and, too, upon the value of your property.)
Don't count on it. We have a constitutionally protected right to bare arms for the specific purpose of the population overthrowing a tyrannical government that has overstepped its bounds and forgotten that they work for the people, not the other way around. We don't tolerate dictators here.
Suburbia in the USA works just fine, you don't live here so I'm not sure what makes you think you know anything about it. The cities are utterly dependent on the rural areas for food and resources, dense urban cities cannot support themselves and would implode in isolation. I'm glad that they exist so that there is a place for people who like to live in an ant farm, but seriously f*#& anyone who tries to force everyone to live in that type of environment. I'm not joking, I cannot exist in a dense city. DO NOT try to turn MY environment into something YOU find ideal and I will not try to turn your environment into something suitable for me. You seem to have a very idealistic idea in your head about how the world should work and you don't care what others want and wish you had the power to force everyone to live your way, that is not acceptable. That is tyranny, that is what dictators do.
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We have a constitutionally protected right to bare arms for the specific purpose of the population overthrowing a tyrannical government that has overstepped its bounds and forgotten that they work for the people, not the other way around. We don't tolerate dictators here.
Yet if the UN was to have its way with their disarmament policies as they are most everywhere else in the world you wouldn't have that push back and the whole world would be rosey according to the UN. :bullshit:
Watch these muppets ^ ^ ^
It's sad our current 'leaders' haven't retained their 'ground up' vision and are now too easily led by the $ than putting in place conditions where anyone if they put in the effort can gain peace and prosperity.
Utopia unachievable some might say but utopia it would be if only gubbermints and councils/local governance would have a much lesser part of our everyday lives instead of hellbent ivory tower development. :horse:
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Suburbia, at least in the US, is basically a gigantic Ponzi scheme and cities are going bankrupt over it. They are only sustainable as long as the city continues to grow, as the new developers fund the existing maintenance. [...] NIMBYist policy that prohibits density at all costs
Increasing density MIGHT slow your ponzi scheme but that's not the only option. It'd be better to end the ponzi scheme. We have rapidly improving technology, our city planners should be able to live within their means in nearly any density of city. I think that is an easier task in cities with lower density.
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Suburbia, at least in the US, is basically a gigantic Ponzi scheme and cities are going bankrupt over it. They are only sustainable as long as the city continues to grow, as the new developers fund the existing maintenance. [...] NIMBYist policy that prohibits density at all costs
Increasing density MIGHT slow your ponzi scheme but that's not the only option. It'd be better to end the ponzi scheme. We have rapidly improving technology, our city planners should be able to live within their means in nearly any density of city. I think that is an easier task in cities with lower density.
Which in reality couldn't plan a pissup in a brewery !
Here in recently developed suburbs should the ground conditions be substandard to withstand the newly 'prescribed' 3 story creations tradies struggle to get their gear onto site as the density is so heightened they forgot about needing to build roads wide enough to get any big rig or a truck and trailer along these things that can only be described as goat tracks !
But it gets worse as the development continues as every site requires further visits from large machinery any and all at risk of taking out tires while entering these modern hovels of creation and when finished should just a parked car take up some of the road getting even a firetruck down these tracks becomes impossible.
Don't park on the road I hear you say, well with just one pissy carpark/residence and zero local employment what else are residents to do ?
Planners, they couldn't even plan a poo yet they leave a mountain of shit wherever they go.
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NIMBYist policy that prohibits density at all costs
You seem to have a very idealistic idea in your head about how the world should work and you don't care what others want and wish you had the power to force everyone to live your way, that is not acceptable. That is tyranny, that is what dictators do.
tom66, since you use the term nimby, would you consider yourself a magtyby: me and government taking your back yard?
This is a very idealistic view that people can somehow find ways for dense cities to be good but can't figure out how to make simple, lower density areas be good.
Talks about a dense city as a place where people walk to the grocery store despite the reality that many of them commute through multiple cities to go to their favorite bulk food distributor which trucks their food in from far away. But somehow doesn't acknowledge people can walk to the grocery store through quiet, tree lined streets of single family houses just as easily as they can through congested blocks of apartments.
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our city planners
couldn't plan a pissup in a brewery !
If you consider their motives to be that of most business people: to grow their salary and cv by growing the business, then their planning skills don't seem quite as absurdly awful.
If they are also home owners then they have extra incentive to grow the city and make it spend lots of money: to increase their property value, even if it means plunging their city into debt.
I'm guessing this isn't the driving factor in all city planners decisions but I wouldn't be surprised if it influenced many of them.
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NIMBYist policy that prohibits density at all costs
You seem to have a very idealistic idea in your head about how the world should work and you don't care what others want and wish you had the power to force everyone to live your way, that is not acceptable. That is tyranny, that is what dictators do.
tom66, since you use the term nimby, would you consider yourself a magtyby: me and government taking your back yard?
This is a very idealistic view that people can somehow find ways for dense cities to be good but can't figure out how to make simple, lower density areas be good.
Talks about a dense city as a place where people walk to the grocery store despite the reality that many of them commute through multiple cities to go to their favorite bulk food distributor which trucks their food in from far away. But somehow doesn't acknowledge people can walk to the grocery store through quiet, tree lined streets of single family houses just as easily as they can through congested blocks of apartments.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. Recently I visited LA. In the city centre with a lot of high rise apartment buildings you can walk to your favorite grocery shop one or 2 blocks away because there are enough people living in such a small area to make having such a shop worth while. OTOH I also looked around in Santa Ana / Irvine and over there the distances are much larger. Going shoping on foot is undoable even for me as a great fan of simply walking to places. Yes, the tree lined streets are there but I'd need at least a bicycle to move around in order to not waste lots of time just travelling. Grocery stores are spread much thinner in that area because there are less people living there per unit of land area.
IMHO these are both extremes.
Where I live there is a middle ground with cascaded houses along tree lined streets but distances to get to from one part of the city to the other, are still small and doable on foot. The city where I live has been developed during the past decades and has seperate road systems for cars, cyclists / walkways and public transport. Urban planners should follow that as a blue print. I've seen several places in LA's suburbs (like Santa Ana) where they added cycling / scooter lanes but these are essentially useless because cyclists are still sharing the road with cars and thus needing to stop at every intersection. Modern, ecologically friendly city development requires a totally different mindset.
It still doesn't mean existing cities can't be retrofitted to allow for better light transport. But this has to be done using elevated roads and /or tunnels for 'slow transport' cycling / scooter lanes that allow quick transits without needing cross paths with cars. In the end cars are pretty slow in an urban environment.
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our city planners
couldn't plan a pissup in a brewery !
If you consider their motives to be that of most business people: to grow their salary and cv by growing the business, then their planning skills don't seem quite as absurdly awful.
If they are also home owners then they have extra incentive to grow the city and make it spend lots of money: to increase their property value, even if it means plunging their city into debt.
I'm guessing this isn't the driving factor in all city planners decisions but I wouldn't be surprised if it influenced many of them.
You would expect servants of the city (planners serving the the ratepayers) to be guided by overarching policy so to get new blank canvas suburb creations right first time, wouldn't you ?
Hell it's not like we've been doing this for just the last year or 3.
In all my life I've never had high opinions of any but one, a chap whom recognised the wisdom of my pop and worked closely with him over many years to now be a commissioner deciding on planning applications and appeals but sadly hamstrung by many policy rules.
The whole system still needs substantial refining and after how many decades. :scared:
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We have a constitutionally protected right to bare arms for the specific purpose of the population overthrowing a tyrannical government that has overstepped its bounds and forgotten that they work for the people, not the other way around
Really? Even the right to bear arms for that specific purpose?
Of course, I haven't grown up with the second amendment, but my reading of it (and the subsequent lawsuits, with the supreme court ruling in 2017) is that you have the right to "keep and bear arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home". The other interpretation is for state and/or federal defense in a militia.
Whatever, I don't think shooting up your local government offices because they've re-zoned somewhere is a lawful purpose, and in any case seems rather over the top.
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Don't count on it. We have a constitutionally protected right to bare arms for the specific purpose of the population overthrowing a tyrannical government that has overstepped its bounds and forgotten that they work for the people, not the other way around. We don't tolerate dictators here.
Aren't you getting annoyed at politicians that are elected by citizens around you doing things that (presumably) the citizens ultimately approve of, or at least don't hate enough to vote against it? That's also a pillar of the US, and indeed any democracy. Though the US does have some wonky democratic standards, like gerrymandering, these tend to favour the more conservative candidate as they benefit the rural areas more. So I'm failing to see the problem here, other than it's happening a bit too slowly, as people aren't aware of the issues.
Suburbia in the USA works just fine, you don't live here so I'm not sure what makes you think you know anything about it.
Low density suburbia has similar problems in every country - this is definitely not unique to the USA - though it is true the US has some particularly challenging issues around it. The biggest, though certainly not the only issue is, that it takes in far too little tax for the infrastructure it requires to support itself. And people don't like paying tax, and have voted for successive governments that promise to reduce tax. This is applicable in Europe, in the UK, in America, Australia, everywhere. Please go and read "Strong Towns" which talks about all of the problems of suburbia, you don't need to take my word for it. There is plenty of research in this area - the diagrams showing the cost of suburbia relative to the tax revenue taken in are particularly enlightening. Those dense city areas you hate? Well, they're paying to pave the roads you drive on in suburbia. Without them, the roads would be even worse.
The cities are utterly dependent on the rural areas for food and resources, dense urban cities cannot support themselves and would implode in isolation.
Suburban sprawl != rural productive farmland
Like, you can go and live in a farmhouse if you want, or even a rural town. Those are actually quite good places to live and more should be built, as they tend to be generally self-sustaining, especially so if they become attractive as tourist spots. Relatively low infrastructure requirements, because the population is quite small. The problem is, as I've said, suburban sprawl: it's a very specific definition of just lots of single family, large area detached homes, one after another, serviced nearly exclusively by road, usually located on the outer rim of a city, but sometimes sprawling a mile or two away from the city, because a parcel of land got bought up and developed for cheap.
I am not talking about low density housing in itself. A farmhouse on 10 acres of productive land is of course extremely low density, far lower than even suburban sprawl, but that's not a problem. The problem is sprawling housing developments that cannot economically support themselves; these areas have high infrastructure cost but very few people per mi^2, and people are tax revenue. Think about what a suburban area requires: it needs shopping facilities, it needs medical facilities, it needs gyms, churches and other amenities. These demands are so much harder to service when you need huge roads to move everyone around, when there is no choice but to drive to get anywhere, so every shopping mall needs a ~10 acre parking lot. And then traffic gets worse, because population and demand grows, so they need wider roads, bigger intersections, bigger parking lots, etc. We end up with stroads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad), which are not only discouraging to pedestrians, but outright dangerous to anyone who's not in an SUV. And they create so much pollution, divide neighbourhoods in two, and enforce car dependency. Having such large tarmaced areas creates flood risks, because it's prohibitive to natural drainage (porous concrete is a partial solution, but not perfect), and the runoff from these parking lots is toxic to aquatic life and the like.
Similar, somewhat related problem: golf courses. So much productive land area used (often in areas where housing is in high demand), with extremely high irrigation in most areas, but used by, what, 25 people at any one time? At least golf courses are usually privately owned, so it's more of an "economic shame" than a direct cost on the city.
I'm glad that they exist so that there is a place for people who like to live in an ant farm, but seriously f*#& anyone who tries to force everyone to live in that type of environment. I'm not joking, I cannot exist in a dense city. DO NOT try to turn MY environment into something YOU find ideal and I will not try to turn your environment into something suitable for me. You seem to have a very idealistic idea in your head about how the world should work and you don't care what others want and wish you had the power to force everyone to live your way, that is not acceptable. That is tyranny, that is what dictators do.
Not once have I proposed forcing anyone to move out of their home, you are placing that idea in your head in order to create a straw man to fight against. I am saying we should STOP building these sprawling estates, and where possible we should be building denser, more integrated housing. What we do with existing sprawl is more difficult, but it is very likely to depend on the needs of an area. Some sprawl is more sustainable than other sprawl, especially if it's surrounded by more productive land. Housing has a lifespan, especially timber constructed homes in the US, so as these homes reach the end of their life, they could be replaced with something better. Or, we could improve the infrastructure or allow subdivision of existing units, or the city could purchase the most unproductive areas and convert them. The latter has already happened with some high flood risk areas; the city determines the cost of flood barriers or the like is so high that it's simply cheaper to make these homes just go away.
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I’ve read the Strong Towns propaganda and it’s well-produced and makes some good points while strongly advocating for a position the authors prefer.
I think it also misses the mark on several key elements, particularly the plainly visible observation that plenty of our cities are struggling financially while the (separately incorporated, budgeted, and funded) surrounding suburban towns and counties are doing just fine financially, even with the increased square meters of roadway per person to maintain, plow, and periodically resurface. Many of these around me aren’t newly incorporated areas, such that the tapering of growth just hasn’t caught up with them yet (unless that effect takes 300 or more years, in which case, I’m probably okay with anyway).
These suburbs often have the most desirable places to live, to raise a family, to send your kids to the public schools, and tend to operate with balanced budgets, contrary to the forecasted doom and gloom from the Strong Towns material.
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Our awful governor that has been in office for a decade has been pushing a bill that would allow construction of 4-plexes in all residential neighborhoods in cities with over 6000 residents which would include my neighborhood. [..]
I wish we had politicians as brave as that here! We need more homes (and in places people actually want to live, not just in more urban sprawl.)
[...]
Like, you can go and live in a farmhouse if you want, or even a rural town. Those are actually quite good places to live and more should be built
James said 'cities with over 6000 residents'.
In my province, it is every city. Including tiny ones.
So no, we can't settle in a low density area and not have to move if people keep supporting these dictators and calling them brave.
If you are going to support the dictators taking that away from people, you ought be clear where exactly you want them to make these big permanent changes. You should also have a very good reason and clear evidence that it'll solve some awful problems and not ruin what you call 'quite good places'.
Cities put a lot of time, money and precedence into zoning decisions and locally elected leaders have final say. When higher levels of governments throw out that work and override them, they are dictating outside of their jurisdiction. They are elected by the province, they jurisdiction is provincial issues. The citizens of the province do not have the right to override local citizens on local zoning. Why should big city dwellers have the right to cause permanent damage to small city zoning or any type of local zoning for that matter?
I can see why big city dwellers want some say: so they can take space for themselves in nice small cities from the people who built them. I would not call that 'brave'.
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tom66, since you use the term nimby, would you consider yourself a magtyby: me and government taking your back yard?
Not in favour, and have never stated the government should repossess private property.
I'd have no problem however with some of the unused and underutilised parcels of land around me being converted into denser housing, though. I'm very much of the opinion that we need to build more housing, not try to close planning laws even further, and what housing we do build needs to be built with the community and transport links in mind.
This is a very idealistic view that people can somehow find ways for dense cities to be good but can't figure out how to make simple, lower density areas be good.
I'm not one to want to live somewhere like NYC, different people like that. Instead, I live in a smallish (30k pop) town in England with no tower blocks, just normal 70-100 year old English housing. However, I'm only about 10 minutes away from the shops by foot, and even less by bike. I do like that our town has those little rental scooters. I've taken those a few times instead of driving. Though I wish they'd go faster than 15 mph. I do still use my car a reasonable amount, because we still don't have good public transport here, so any journey outside of the town is done by car. I'd *love* to live somewhere that e.g. had trams or trolleybuses that served the area, and a good train station to major cities, but these are unfortunately quite uncommon in the UK for a number of reasons. Everywhere that has these services tends to be overpriced, because funnily enough people (despite certain other comments on here) generally want to live in an area that's not super car dependent.
More places should be built around the car being a last-choice rather than a first-choice. That's really the big issue here. As I said, driving a car is... fine, but it's not ideal. It's also not accessible to some people, I mean young people are a good example, but also think once you're over 70 or so, you probably shouldn't be driving either, and you have the blind, or you could be drunk or otherwise inebriated. It just creates headaches to be dependent upon cars exclusively.
Talks about a dense city as a place where people walk to the grocery store despite the reality that many of them commute through multiple cities to go to their favorite bulk food distributor which trucks their food in from far away. But somehow doesn't acknowledge people can walk to the grocery store through quiet, tree lined streets of single family houses just as easily as they can through congested blocks of apartments.
Of course you *could* walk through a dense area of single-family homes to get to the shops. But, there are a few issues with that;
- You're likely going to have to walk several miles before you get anywhere you want to. Small convenience stores are uncommon in these areas. I live less than a mile from two major supermarkets (Lidl and Asda).
- The areas are often built without footway access besides that which runs along the street. So instead of cutting through the neighbourhood, you have to take the long route around. It's okay (and preferable) for cars to do this, because they move quickly, but at 3 mph, it just makes the journey all that more inconvenient. This idea comes from the "theory" that alleyways encourage crime, but there's been no evidence to suggest they do.
- When you do encounter a major road that needs to be crossed, you'll frequently find it's hostile to pedestrians, because it's huge, running at 45-55 mph, and it might take you some time before you find a pedestrian crossing that allows you to safely cross it. In most US states, it's illegal to cross except at a crossing. Which is a funny law, lobbied for by the car companies.
- Then you get to your destinations... car park. That's probably another 5-10 minutes to walk across that.
Here's the problem. Random bit of Denver, CO, low density suburban place, look how far you have to walk to get to the nearest supermarket (Wal-Mart in this case.) Essentially nobody is going to do it. It's a 2 hour round trip, most of it spent walking along a busy three lane dual carriageway. At least there is a token footpath.
Map link (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/39.9376543,-104.9521198/Walmart+Supercenter,+200+W+136th+Ave,+Westminster,+CO+80234,+United+States/@39.9419168,-104.9708838,4625m/data=!3m2!1e3!5s0x876c7500c79e0d55:0xa3214db45f0f2f9a!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x876c7500dacfd87d:0xbaf7813348c29b23!2m2!1d-104.9905472!2d39.9404466!3e3!5m1!1e1)
Like, I get it, you obviously need a car to go to Costco, so those places are always going to have huge car parks and massive feeder roads. But it's not necessary for a small supermarket.
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Instead, I live in a smallish (30k pop) town in England with no tower blocks, just normal 70-100 year old English housing. However, I'm only about 10 minutes away from the shops by foot, and even less by bike.
You must recognize that it is possible for low density areas (single family homes) to have short walks to grocery stores, since you are living that.
Urban sprawl is a different problem and housing density isn't the cause or solution.
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You must recognize that it is possible for low density areas (single family homes) to have short walks to grocery stores, since you are living that.
Urban sprawl is a different problem and housing density isn't the cause or solution.
Yes, I've said repeatedly I haven't a problem with a detached house, it's a perfectly fine solution for the problem of housing people when used appropriately. I literally live in a 4 bedroom detached house. The difference is the housing here is integrated into the neighbourhood quite well and there are mixed density houses on the same street, so just down the road from me is a small apartment block, most of the houses on this road are semi-detached and the houses are closer together than they would be in a typical American suburb. (My house is about 2m from the neighbour's house. I have a big garden, but it extends behind the property rather than around it.) And since the area is mixed use we have a few businesses, amenities and a decent town centre all within good walking distance. Not just acres and acres of housing.
One of the biggest complaints I have is we have a nice park nearby but no alleyways to get to it, due to older planning law discouraging them. So it's an extra 5-10 mins to walk to it, making it more difficult to use for a lunchtime stroll. It's probably too hard to add those now, as there are houses in the way. But it's still miles better than sprawl after sprawl.
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tom66, since you use the term nimby, would you consider yourself a magtyby: me and government taking your back yard?
Not in favour, and have never stated the government should repossess private property.
When I say magtyby, you take 'back yard' literally as their privately owned back yard?
But when you say nimby, 'back yard' means neighborhood?
If local citizens pay tax dollars to create local zoning laws, I think we could consider those laws to be their property. At the least, those laws impact the value of their private property.
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When I say magtyby, you take 'back yard' literally as their privately owned back yard?
But when you say nimby, 'back yard' means neighborhood?
If local citizens pay tax dollars to create local zoning laws, I think we could consider those laws to be their property. At the least, those laws impact the value of their private property.
Let's stop using made up acronyms. It's just giving me a headache.
When you buy a property, you buy that property.
You don't have any right to determine what happens to the property around that. You didn't buy that. You have a say in that, like everyone else in the area, as voting resident. But it's just one voice amongst many others.
NIMBYism opposes any development nearby a property for fear of impact of the value of that property, or for other related reasons. I'm opposed to the general concept of NIMBYism because it's extremely self-centered. For instance, there is a new rail station going up near my parent's house. In general, the town will benefit greatly from this - residents will have better access to public transport - and businesses will have access to more staff. It has been stalled repeatedly by local councilors, supported by vocal residents near to the infrastructure, who fear their property values will be impacted. This is despite the fact that the most vocal campaigner lives a mile away from the proposed new station.
I do not believe that the impact on a few property values should take precedence over the benefit for everyone else in an area. (And I would suspect that, certainly in the longer term, a rail station would greatly improve property values, not decrease them.)
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The issue I have is that you've advocated for politicians "brave" enough to steamroll over democratically elected local leadership in order to force neighborhoods to be zoned for multifamily structures against the wishes of the residents that live there. That is literally anti-democracy, it is the sort of things that dictators do, "for the greater good" and has no place in a free country. There are dense urban cities, and there are suburbs, and there are rural areas, precisely because people have different needs and desires. It is not practical to keep moving every time some area changes, so zoning provides some rules and stability, you're supposed to be able to buy property somewhere with reasonable assurance that it's going to retain the sort of character you bought into it for. This attitude hits a nerve with me and my response may be a bit extreme but this is a big, BIG deal for me and a very real existential threat that I feel. I am sick of politicians ruling from their ivory towers and deciding how things should be done in places they don't live. I don't give a damn about property values, actually I wish they would tank because they result in high taxes. What matters to me is having a place to live, I bought a house in exactly the sort of neighborhood I desire to live in, and don't anyone dare try to take that away from me. It was zoned a certain way, that is a constant that is not supposed to change, certainly not without a vote by the people directly affected by the proposed changes.
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Instead, I live in a smallish (30k pop) town in England with no tower blocks, just normal 70-100 year old English housing. However, I'm only about 10 minutes away from the shops by foot, and even less by bike.
You must recognize that it is possible for low density areas (single family homes) to have short walks to grocery stores, since you are living that.
Urban sprawl is a different problem and housing density isn't the cause or solution.
I can walk 10 minutes from my suburban development into areas zoned for commercial and other areas zoned for multifamily homes. It's not like it is a 50 mile drive through endless miles of houses, things are just divided up into different areas with different purposes rather than all mixed together. It's perfectly logical and I see no benefit in mixing it all together.
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Increasing density MIGHT slow your ponzi scheme but that's not the only option. It'd be better to end the ponzi scheme. We have rapidly improving technology, our city planners should be able to live within their means in nearly any density of city. I think that is an easier task in cities with lower density.
You know what IS a Ponzi scheme? Relying on infinite growth in a world of finite resources. Pack people in more and more and more tightly and then what? There is only so far that you can go, the population is still rapidly growing, the planet isn't getting any bigger. Increased density is just kicking the can down the road at the expense of everyone that hates density, the only solution is reduced population.
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Aren't you getting annoyed at politicians that are elected by citizens around you doing things that (presumably) the citizens ultimately approve of, or at least don't hate enough to vote against it? That's also a pillar of the US, and indeed any democracy. Though the US does have some wonky democratic standards, like gerrymandering, these tend to favour the more conservative candidate as they benefit the rural areas more. So I'm failing to see the problem here, other than it's happening a bit too slowly, as people aren't aware of the issues.
No, I'm getting annoyed that federal politicians are stomping all over the local politicians that we elected to represent us and run the local area where we live. The people we elected to run our cities and towns are getting overridden by the state, which are sometimes overridden by the federal level. It pisses me off when someone that lives far from here and doesn't have to deal with the consequences rules on how we have to do things. They act like dictators that ignore the wishes of the locals and those we elected.
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Instead, I live in a smallish (30k pop) town in England with no tower blocks, just normal 70-100 year old English housing. However, I'm only about 10 minutes away from the shops by foot, and even less by bike.
You must recognize that it is possible for low density areas (single family homes) to have short walks to grocery stores, since you are living that.
Urban sprawl is a different problem and housing density isn't the cause or solution.
I can walk 10 minutes from my suburban development into areas zoned for commercial and other areas zoned for multifamily homes. It's not like it is a 50 mile drive through endless miles of houses, things are just divided up into different areas with different purposes rather than all mixed together. It's perfectly logical and I see no benefit in mixing it all together.
That's exactly what's it's like here.
Within just a 3-4km radius of my place there are protected designated areas for family homes, units, apartments, hotels, multi-story high rise, commercial, industrial, heritage, shopping, freeways and even a casino is planned. And large areas of protected parkland, waterways, and animal habitat etc.
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I can walk 10 minutes from my suburban development into areas zoned for commercial and other areas zoned for multifamily homes. It's not like it is a 50 mile drive through endless miles of houses, things are just divided up into different areas with different purposes rather than all mixed together. It's perfectly logical and I see no benefit in mixing it all together.
Are those commercially zoned areas useful things for you? For instance, somewhere to shop, a gym, medical clinics? Or is it just random warehouses and industry? Obviously, I don't know exactly where you live James - so what I say may not exactly apply. But, in general, suburban SFH zoning for miles and miles is a bad thing, and it's not solved by just having some token commercial use thrown in here or there, it needs to be actually planned resources that people want to use. There are good examples of suburbia (there's nothing wrong in general with the concept of a suburban area!), I've linked a few, but many aren't well implemented and that's what needs to improve.
You know what IS a Ponzi scheme? Relying on infinite growth in a world of finite resources. Pack people in more and more and more tightly and then what? There is only so far that you can go, the population is still rapidly growing, the planet isn't getting any bigger. Increased density is just kicking the can down the road at the expense of everyone that hates density, the only solution is reduced population.
No, you're once again misunderstanding the issue. City centres don't have to grow to maintain themselves specifically, they're dense enough that, in general, the taxation and business activity funds the place. I mean, Manhattan has maintained about the same density of buildings for the last 25 years (a few more have been built, but hardly as many as were built in the early 1900s) and NYC is more or less financially solvent. The problem is the Ponzi scheme applies to suburbia. The miles and miles of SFH detached properties, with no businesses contributing to business rates, and large infrastructure requirements (big roads, long sewer and water lines, all provided for residents) is extremely expensive to maintain. As traffic demand grows, because of car dependency, the junctions need to get bigger and roads need to be widened. And if you pay, say, 1% property tax, you pay ~1/4 of what is truly needed to support that infrastructure. It only becomes possible to fund these areas on the basis of the growth of areas outside of the current suburbia and the productive city centre - that's the Ponzi problem - it is itself dependent upon constant physical growth of the city. So in the end, what will happen, is the area you live in will just start looking worse and worse. Eventually the city will just be unable to maintain these areas because the growth train does stop eventually. This is regardless of who you elect or what politician says what.
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Well those areas you are saying we can't have are the only areas I'm willing to live in, and this is an issue I'm willing to go to any lengths to fight for. It amounts to driving me out of my home, and it is a very serious issue. I would support violence if necessary to overthrow anyone that tries to force this on me.
Yes, from the point of view of the individual ant (i.e., from below), it may look like that. But no one will be able to deny that many decisions are (have to be) made that have the big picture in mind. Individual fates are then tragic, but have to be accepted for the good of the whole area/country. From the point of view of the individual/affected person, of course, this is tragic because he or she was not asked and must bear the consequences that are negative for him or her.
Of course, there will always be decisions where someone fills their pockets and which are exclusively monetarily driven. However, statements that propagate the right to bear arms in such/similar cases are to be strictly rejected. If something is not right: enter the legal process.
A democracy means: If you don't like the current government, take your chance at the next election. If you cannot assert yourself, you are in the minority and may have to learn to accept (for you) uncomfortable things.
While I can understand your anger at the fact that the development plan has been changed and your immediate living environment may change, in the long run it is a normal process. If this wasn't exactly what kept happening, there would be no development and America would still look the same as it did 100 years ago. And also that your house was built and now stands there, has possibly once annoyed someone.
To call false/inconvenient decisions "dictatorship" and to use force of arms to 'correct' a (from your point of view) wrong government direction is never okay. You should not even think about it.... this is a very dangerous path!! For changing such things is what courts and elections are for. Period.
(Using arms for 'correcting' inconveniences is, by the way, rather the view of a dictator - think about that)
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Are those commercially zoned areas useful things for you? For instance, somewhere to shop, a gym, medical clinics? Or is it just random warehouses and industry? Obviously, I don't know exactly where you live James - so what I say may not exactly apply. But, in general, suburban SFH zoning for miles and miles is a bad thing, and it's not solved by just having some token commercial use thrown in here or there, it needs to be actually planned resources that people want to use. There are good examples of suburbia (there's nothing wrong in general with the concept of a suburban area!), I've linked a few, but many aren't well implemented and that's what needs to improve.
Judge for yourself, this is about a 15 minute walk from my house.
https://goo.gl/maps/cJdXg5omJuk4sVPc7
Most of the businesses are of zero interest to me but pretty much everything I need is around. I mostly work from home, rarely eat out and do the bulk of my shopping online though so the commercial areas are much less relevant than they used to be, most weeks I don't leave my neighborhood unless I need to get groceries. Half the year it's cold and/or pissing down rain so walking and biking is only really practical for a few months around summer. Unfortunately we only have one supermarket in town these days, the other one that was there forever got bought out by another which then collapsed and now there's a useless beauty supply store there. The one that remains has always been the trendy overpriced yuppie sort of place and they got more expensive once they were the only game in town. Fortunately there's a Costco just a few minutes drive away and that's where I get most of my bulk items. There's a hardware store, a pharmacy, an auto parts store and a thrift shop, those are about the only places I actually go.
You talk a lot about what "needs to improve" but you fail to consider anyone's needs except for your own. You seem to have difficulty grasping that not everyone has the same view of utopia that you have in your head. Miles of single family homes might not be ideal for someone that wants to go out all the time, but it wouldn't be the problem it would have been 20 years ago anyway. I can order virtually anything I need online, and the stuff that is impractical to order I can go out and get on a combined shopping trip. In many ways I see downtown shopping centers as obsolete, I have fond memories of going to malls and such when I was a kid but I don't remember the last time I bought something from a store in one. "Random warehouses and industry" are useful if you happen to be one of the people working at those businesses.
I'm hoping some day I can retire and move somewhere out in this general area or something similar. https://goo.gl/maps/d2KiinAFLrXopcnu7 It's absolutely lovely out there, open space, peace and quiet, a friend lives out there and when I get away from the highway out on those rural roads I can feel the stress just melt away, I'd love to be able to sit out on my porch and fly model airplanes all day or go for a drive in a classic car and not get stuck in traffic. You can actually see the Milky Way in the sky out there at night and you can go for a walk and not run into another person for miles. The only thing I don't like is the wind, and the winters are a bit harsh.
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Are those commercially zoned areas useful things for you? For instance, somewhere to shop, a gym, medical clinics? Or is it just random warehouses and industry? Obviously, I don't know exactly where you live James - so what I say may not exactly apply. But, in general, suburban SFH zoning for miles and miles is a bad thing, and it's not solved by just having some token commercial use thrown in here or there, it needs to be actually planned resources that people want to use. There are good examples of suburbia (there's nothing wrong in general with the concept of a suburban area!), I've linked a few, but many aren't well implemented and that's what needs to improve.
Judge for yourself, this is about a 15 minute walk from my house.
https://goo.gl/maps/cJdXg5omJuk4sVPc7
That's not terrible, but still rather car dominant (look at how much space is dedicated to parking as compared to the buildings!) But, better than nothing, I suppose.
Most of the businesses are of zero interest to me but pretty much everything I need is around. I mostly work from home, rarely eat out and do the bulk of my shopping online though so the commercial areas are much less relevant than they used to be, most weeks I don't leave my neighborhood unless I need to get groceries.
We get a lot of stuff delivered, but for food the local grocery services are useless. It's often the case that you get products substituted just to complete the order, so for instance you order toothpaste but they're out, so they give you a toilet roll instead. And the fruit and veg is usually just randomly selected, so plenty of bruised and inadequate produce. So for now we do shop in person, but that requires a car because you need to carry the shopping home otherwise. There are some services that let you pick your products out at the store then get it delivered a few hours later (so in theory you can walk to and back from the store), but they're not available around here.
The walkability aspect is more relating to the daily essentials and other aspects of life... if you run out of milk or eggs, it's not a case of ordering for delivery. It's really nice to be able to walk over to the local convenience shop (~5 mins walk from me) and just pick up eggs. Yeah, it's not quite as cheap as the big supermarket, but time is money, too. It's also nice that I can walk to the gym, and the doctor's clinic, and there are even a few restaurants, pubs and takeaways within walkable distance. That's what making a walkable area is about. For distances further away, the e-scooters or a bike are pretty good ways to move about.
You talk a lot about what "needs to improve" but you fail to consider anyone's needs except for your own. You seem to have difficulty grasping that not everyone has the same view of utopia that you have in your head. Miles of single family homes might not be ideal for someone that wants to go out all the time, but it wouldn't be the problem it would have been 20 years ago anyway. I can order virtually anything I need online, and the stuff that is impractical to order I can go out and get on a combined shopping trip. In many ways I see downtown shopping centers as obsolete, I have fond memories of going to malls and such when I was a kid but I don't remember the last time I bought something from a store in one. "Random warehouses and industry" are useful if you happen to be one of the people working at those businesses.
No, I'm not the socialite yuppie you've got in your head - I'm quite introverted too. I too work mostly from home. I'm more concerned about city design from a sustainability point of view. It's not practical to continue on the current path that America and other countries have embarked upon - and this includes parts of the UK too. It's going to end up in economic turmoil eventually because this model isn't sustainable in the long run, and it's better to act now to try to fix it before too late. There are other issues with this type of suburban design, like the impact upon health by enforcing car dependency (both from lack of exercise, but also pollution and higher pedestrian fatalities), but the most obvious elephant in the room is the economics. And it's possible to strike a balance that preserves space in the home, but improves density and walkability. The thing I can't quite get is why you'd be opposed to this, but I guess it's a different mindset, maybe driven more by a concern over the unknown.
Anyway, this is getting way off topic now, and I sense we'll never really agree on this, so probably best to part ways there. I wish you well in any case.
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I can walk 10 minutes from my suburban development into areas zoned for commercial and other areas zoned for multifamily homes. It's not like it is a 50 mile drive through endless miles of houses, things are just divided up into different areas with different purposes rather than all mixed together. It's perfectly logical and I see no benefit in mixing it all together.
Are those commercially zoned areas useful things for you? For instance, somewhere to shop, a gym, medical clinics?
In my case we almost never have to leave our local area to do or buy anything. Only thing I can think of is our dentist which we travel a long way for, but because he's been trusted in the family to two generations now.
Even the kids were born in the local private hospital which is one of the best in Sydney.
Massive array of shopping with Norwest, Castle Towers, and the Castle Hill business park and shopping centres there. Literally 5 shopping complexes within a 5km radius.
Huge array of medical and other specialists. One of the kids needed a hand operation. BEst hand doctor in the country is in the local private hospital. Heck I sometimes don't even have to leave my lab building for things. My insurance guy used to be on the same floor, now he's next door. The array of medical and other stuff I can get in my own building alone is remarkable.
Or is it just random warehouses and industry?
In Australia it's typical to have everythign you need in your local area. Councils and governments seem to do a good job of approving.
Almost every suburb I can think of has it's own shopping centre(s), medical etc.
So if you were a new doctor looking to start your own practice you might target a new suburb being built and set up a space there in an array of shops alreayd planned out for your use.
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Miles of single family homes might not be ideal for someone that wants to go out all the time, but it wouldn't be the problem it would have been 20 years ago anyway. I can order virtually anything I need online, and the stuff that is impractical to order I can go out and get on a combined shopping trip. In many ways I see downtown shopping centers as obsolete, I have fond memories of going to malls and such when I was a kid but I don't remember the last time I bought something from a store in one. "Random warehouses and industry" are useful if you happen to be one of the people working at those businesses.
I can't remember the last time we went into Sydney CBD for shopping. I'm talking decades ago.
There are some suburbs in Sydney were your shopping might suck a bit, but you'll still have all your basics needs locally available.
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We get a lot of stuff delivered, but for food the local grocery services are useless. It's often the case that you get products substituted just to complete the order, so for instance you order toothpaste but they're out, so they give you a toilet roll instead. And the fruit and veg is usually just randomly selected, so plenty of bruised and inadequate produce. So for now we do shop in person, but that requires a car because you need to carry the shopping home otherwise. There are some services that let you pick your products out at the store then get it delivered a few hours later (so in theory you can walk to and back from the store), but they're not available around here.
Bringing this back to Fran's situation for a minute, and her recent video where she mentions she'd "have to survive on the outskirts of town", I'm honestly not seeing the problem here.
I get all the trans safety stuff, I really do, but being in a big city like Philly has to be WAY more dangerous than wandering around a small local suburban shopping centre. Like orders of magnitude more dangerous.
Buy a big house on your own block on the outskirts of a nice town and get stuff delivered and/or go to the local shoping centre for basics. Safety practically assured.
Buy in a concealed carry state if extra nervous.
For your cultural enrichment needs, drive into the city as needed. I'd be surprised if she's wandering the streets of Philly for cultural enrichment every day?
I know she's sick of me trying to convince her of this privately, so I've stopped. Buy maybe if enough people reassure her there are safe options out there she might make the change when the next living/lab crsis happens.
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I think that, outside the context of dating, no one is going to care that Fran is trans. Maybe dating is better in the city; I have no idea, but in daily life, I literally could not care less and I have to think 99.9+% of people are the same. To the extent that the 0.1% represent a problem, those problems seem worse, not better, in a high-density neighborhood.
If she has reasons to prefer a certain neighborhood and you couldn’t talk her out of them, I and 200 other internet literal strangers probably won’t either.
As an outsider, this doesn’t totally add up in the sense of matching my view of reality, but it’s Fran’s view of reality that guides her, not ours.
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If she has reasons to prefer a certain neighborhood and you couldn’t talk her out of them, I and 200 other internet literal strangers probably won’t either.
I've talked to her privately many times about this in Philly, and she is most definitely right that there are many bad areas you most certainly do not want to venture, either living there or having to go to your factory/lab there.
What she hasn't been able to convince me though, not in the slightest, is the lack of options outside of Philly.
As an outsider, this doesn’t totally add up in the sense of matching my view of reality, but it’s Fran’s view of reality that guides her, not ours.
100%
Although it pains me and many others that she doesn't have options outside of Philly.
I suspect that Philly options are only going to get worse with time, and I think she even called the curent place the "last stand" or something. I greatly doubt this re-gentrification thing is going to happen, but hey, that wold be awesome if some laws changed and they opened up some cheap(er) live/work places in Philly again.
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That's not terrible, but still rather car dominant (look at how much space is dedicated to parking as compared to the buildings!) But, better than nothing, I suppose.
Of course it's car dominant, people want to drive cars, one of the things I like about the eastside so much is that it's not car-hostile like Seattle is, you can actually get around and parking everywhere is free. As I said earlier, the weather is crap here, nobody wants to walk or bike when it's cold and pissing down rain, it's a terrible experience. If there wasn't ample parking I would choose to live somewhere else.
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I think that, outside the context of dating, no one is going to care that Fran is trans. Maybe dating is better in the city; I have no idea, but in daily life, I literally could not care less and I have to think 99.9+% of people are the same. To the extent that the 0.1% represent a problem, those problems seem worse, not better, in a high-density neighborhood.
If she has reasons to prefer a certain neighborhood and you couldn’t talk her out of them, I and 200 other internet literal strangers probably won’t either.
As an outsider, this doesn’t totally add up in the sense of matching my view of reality, but it’s Fran’s view of reality that guides her, not ours.
This.
Heck I didn't even know she was trans until it came up in this thread, it's just not something I care about. I think it's highly likely she could walk around any city or town in the nation and 99.9% of people wouldn't know and most people that did know wouldn't care.
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Heck I didn't even know she was trans until it came up in this thread, it's just not something I care about. I think it's highly likely she could walk around any city or town in the nation and 99.9% of people wouldn't know and most people that did know wouldn't care.
Unfortunately she has mentioned time and time again that's the #1 thing that she is concerned about and that it drives all her decisions in relation to all these moves. She has talked about it at length in many of the Franlab eviction/moving videos.
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Unfortunately she has mentioned time and time again that's the #1 thing that she is concerned about and that it drives all her decisions in relation to all these moves. She has talked about it at length in many of the Franlab eviction/moving videos.
Which is weird because if you asked me for a list of the most LGBT friendly parts of the USA, Philly wouldn't be in the top 10, or top 20, it would not even come to mind as a part of the country to even suggest. Is there some secret underground trans culture in Philly that is somehow unique to that area?
This whole thing is annoying because it creates a sort of divide by zero error in my brain. It doesn't add up, the logic doesn't make sense.
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While I can understand your anger at the fact that the development plan has been changed and your immediate living environment may change, in the long run it is a normal process. If this wasn't exactly what kept happening, there would be no development and America would still look the same as it did 100 years ago. And also that your house was built and now stands there, has possibly once annoyed someone.
To call false/inconvenient decisions "dictatorship" and to use force of arms to 'correct' a (from your point of view) wrong government direction is never okay. You should not even think about it.... this is a very dangerous path!! For changing such things is what courts and elections are for. Period.
(Using arms for 'correcting' inconveniences is, by the way, rather the view of a dictator - think about that)
But we have local leadership that we have elected to represent us, and that leadership is being overridden, it is being dictated by people higher up that don't live here and that is bullshit. I'm not saying there should never be any development, but once an area is developed and it has been designated for a specific purpose and people invest into it by buying the property, the sort of things that can be built there should be locked in. Are you seriously suggesting that people should not be able to decide they want to have a neighborhood of single family homes? I live in a country that is 3,000 miles wide, there are vast areas of undeveloped land, why do we keep having to accommodate more and more people in a handful of popular areas on the coasts? Why should we ruin an area people already live in to accommodate more and more people? Do you seriously not see the insanity of pushing for infinite growth in a finite space? When can we say that there are enough people and the region is full? What is a reasonable density that we can all just agree to stop allowing more people to be crammed in? Surely you'd at least agree that you can't build your way to affordable housing when there is an endless supply of people wanting to live here. It will never, ever be affordable, the more houses you build the more people will move here. It's like widening the road, you could make the freeways 20 lanes wide and they would just fill up. Increasing road capacity encourages more people to drive, increasing housing capacity encourages more people to move there. The only result is reducing the quality of life for everyone already there.
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Unfortunately she has mentioned time and time again that's the #1 thing that she is concerned about and that it drives all her decisions in relation to all these moves. She has talked about it at length in many of the Franlab eviction/moving videos.
Which is weird because if you asked me for a list of the most LGBT friendly parts of the USA, Philly wouldn't be in the top 10, or top 20, it would not even come to mind as a part of the country to even suggest. Is there some secret underground trans culture in Philly that is somehow unique to that area?
This whole thing is annoying because it creates a sort of divide by zero error in my brain. It doesn't add up, the logic doesn't make sense.
I don't know. But I did find a nice very afforable place once in a large town about 50km outside of downtown Philly that even had it's own large active LGBT centre just down the road and she didn't like that suggestion at all to put it mildly. So :-//
I think part of it, perhaps a large part is that she knows it so well.
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why some never move or stubbornly refusing to move from a particular place. so I am been told.
normal people live with family, normal people get married , then have children, but for some family is a particular street in a particular city
a grandmother's joy is her grandchildren, but for some, all they have left in old age is one or two like them, memories of youth or an old school friend.
-like trying to understand a garden snail by looking at its shell.
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I don't know. But I did find a nice very afforable place once in a large town about 50km outside of downtown Philly that even had it's own large active LGBT centre just down the road and she didn't like that suggestion at all to put it mildly. So :-//
I think part of it, perhaps a large part is that she knows it so well.
Frankly I think it's some kind of mental illness. I'm not going to try to diagnose her, but I do know that comorbidity is considerably higher than among the general population. There is simply no rational reason to choose Philadelphia for the reason of trans acceptance or safety. It is an objectively true fact that the city is one of the more dangerous parts of the entire country for everyone, let alone trans people. Once you factor out the rational reasons, that leaves the irrational reasons.
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For your cultural enrichment needs, drive into the city as needed. I'd be surprised if she's wandering the streets of Philly for cultural enrichment every day?
I know she's sick of me trying to convince her of this privately, so I've stopped.
Or take the bus. Our mass transit here generally sucks, but one thing it does work well for is going from suburbs and outskirts into the downtown area of major cities. I can walk 10 minutes to a park & ride, hop on a bus and be in downtown Seattle 45 minutes later. I'm sure Philadelphia must have something comparable.
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why some never move or stubbornly refusing to move from a particular place. so I am been told.
normal people live with family, normal people get married , then have children, but for some family is a particular street in a particular city
a grandmother's joy is her grandchildren, but for some, all they have left in old age is one or two like them, memories of youth or an old school friend.
-like trying to understand a garden snail by looking at its shell.
If this is the case, you had better buy something then, because if you are going to rent, you are virtually guaranteed to have to move at some point. I moved 3 times back when I was renting, one because the rent was rising by a large amount, another because the landlord decided they wanted to live in the house. It's the reality of renting, the property isn't yours and you have to move when the owner has other plans for it.
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If this is the case, you had better buy something then, because if you are going to rent, you are virtually guaranteed to have to move at some point. I moved 3 times back when I was renting, one because the rent was rising by a large amount, another because the landlord decided they wanted to live in the house. It's the reality of renting, the property isn't yours and you have to move when the owner has other plans for it.
Fran has also been hit with both. Obviously booted three times, but IIRC she said rent is going up 10% per year on average, and she has 4 places.
And the Patreon income seems to be dropping by an even larger rate, not increasing to match the rental inflation.
I think some very hard decisions are not that far away.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere. Well, if you're a drug addict apparently you can do that in Seattle but in most of the areas you'd actually want to be you've got to rent a campsite of some sort. Also you need fuel and maintenance, RVs are not known for being fuel efficient. And you need a place to dump your waste tank and fill up with fresh water.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere.
Check his flag. ;)
You can in Oz if you go out some ways. The place is massive.
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In a van or caravan is probably where I'll end up.
Do not know why you gave up on yourself. Your posts seem to be adequate, knowledgeable and self-sufficient.
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I have a good friend who was an early (if not the original) "tech-nomad" He pursued his career and passion on recumbent bicycles, truck and trailer, sailboat, powerboat, and now back to a truck and trailer. This works for some people and for some activities, but not for many.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere. Well, if you're a drug addict apparently you can do that in Seattle but in most of the areas you'd actually want to be you've got to rent a campsite of some sort. Also you need fuel and maintenance, RVs are not known for being fuel efficient.
Do an EV conversion and you'll be using solar panels on the roof and portable. Living that lifestyle usually means you aren't in a hurry for a charge anyway.
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Dunno about you guys but I would recommend that Fran get out of any major city pronto. Go mobile with a mobile lab on the back of a truck. That way she can send and receive parcels at any city in the country, retire wherever she wants, escape any situation that comes her way.
I actually half-seriously thought about doing a video converting a van into a portable electronics lab, just for kicks and the views, as van conversion videos are (or were) popular.
Main problem is I don't really have the space to do it.
Mrs EEVblog wouldn't let me park it on the lawn at home, and I do have two designated parking spots at the lab, but not exactly the greatest place to work on such a thing.
But in Fran's case her best long term bet is buying (or even renting) a cheap house in a small town or on the outskirts of a major city. I'm afraid the only other option is eventually shutting down most of FranLab and getting a day job if she stays in downtown Philly.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere. Well, if you're a drug addict apparently you can do that in Seattle but in most of the areas you'd actually want to be you've got to rent a campsite of some sort. Also you need fuel and maintenance, RVs are not known for being fuel efficient.
Do an EV conversion and you'll be using solar panels on the roof and portable. Living that lifestyle usually means you aren't in a hurry for a charge anyway.
That would not be an answer to such trivial things as how to get a shower. There are so many little things that make generating energy the least of the problems.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere. Well, if you're a drug addict apparently you can do that in Seattle but in most of the areas you'd actually want to be you've got to rent a campsite of some sort. Also you need fuel and maintenance, RVs are not known for being fuel efficient.
Do an EV conversion and you'll be using solar panels on the roof and portable. Living that lifestyle usually means you aren't in a hurry for a charge anyway.
That would not be an answer to such trivial things as how to get a shower. There are so many little things that make generating energy the least of the problems.
Well you obviously need to be near a water source periodically and fill up the tanks. The solar batteries can take care of water heating too.
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You save up and buy land somewhere just on the outskirts of Philadelphia, Los Angeles, New York. A small amount of land in bushland somewhere with a lot of privacy.
Land is a lot cheaper than a house and a lot cheaper than renting. So are the repayments for said land. Just make sure that you can park a caravan or van on it on a permanent basis.
Not in any of those places. The land my house sits on is worth about 5 times what the house is worth. LA and NY are expensive areas, you have to get a long way out into the sticks before prices on land come down.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere. Well, if you're a drug addict apparently you can do that in Seattle but in most of the areas you'd actually want to be you've got to rent a campsite of some sort. Also you need fuel and maintenance, RVs are not known for being fuel efficient.
Do an EV conversion and you'll be using solar panels on the roof and portable. Living that lifestyle usually means you aren't in a hurry for a charge anyway.
That would not be an answer to such trivial things as how to get a shower. There are so many little things that make generating energy the least of the problems.
Well you obviously need to be near a water source periodically and fill up the tanks. The solar batteries can take care of water heating too.
That sounds more like a homesteading lifestyle. Next thing you know people suggest Fran to move to Alaska and hunt deer with a rifle. >:D
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Not in any of those places. The land my house sits on is worth about 5 times what the house is worth. LA and NY are expensive areas, you have to get a long way out into the sticks before prices on land come down.
Same here. You have to get well outside of greater Sydney (like >150km) to get any reasonably priced land. I know that's not the case for the US though.
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You save up and buy land somewhere just on the outskirts of Philadelphia, Los Angeles, New York. A small amount of land in bushland somewhere with a lot of privacy.
Land is a lot cheaper than a house and a lot cheaper than renting. So are the repayments for said land. Just make sure that you can park a caravan or van on it on a permanent basis.
Fran needs 2000sqft of space for the lab, workshop and storage.
So at the very least she needs a giant shed.
You can likely get a plot of land with just a large shed, I've seen that myself, fairly common here.
But a run down house and decent sized garage would do the trick, there is much greater choice there as it can be in any suburb or more remote area.
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Where do you park the van or caravan? You can't just set up camp anywhere.
Check his flag. ;)
You can in Oz if you go out some ways. The place is massive.
Australia is the driest inhabited continent on planet earth though.
Oh yeah I know.
Our older son is a resident of Perth and currently here with his family visiting his Ma and Pa after the mess of the last few years. On arrival he had a 3 day wet weather reminder of why he left NZ. :)
Hopefully we’ll get back over there for some more exploring next Xmas.
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Fran needs 2000sqft of space for the lab, workshop and storage.
So at the very least she needs a giant shed.
You can likely get a plot of land with just a large shed, I've seen that myself, fairly common here.
But a run down house and decent sized garage would do the trick, there is much greater choice there as it can be in any suburb or more remote area.
$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land in what looks like a realtively nice suburban neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
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My idea won't work then.
The idea itself is sound, but it won't work within the rigid constraints that Fran has boxed herself in with. She has decided it's Philly or bust, so IMO bust is the inevitable result. The train is speeding toward the end of the track.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop in what looks like a nice neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
That looks like a bargain. Plenty of room to park a trailer (caravan) next to the building to live out of while renovating the building to put in a modern apartment for living space and then divide up the rest of the space between storage and workshop. $149k is peanuts.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop in what looks like a nice neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
That looks like a bargain. Plenty of room to park a trailer (caravan) next to the building to live out of while renovating the building to put in a modern apartment for living space and then divide up the rest of the space between storage and workshop. $149k is peanuts.
Yep, exactly how I'd do it.
There would the arguments that it's not a safe neighbourhood, no culture, etc etc. But if it meant the difference between shutting down your business and living a rent and work slave for the rest of your life in Philly, or this, I'd take this any day of the week.
She still has the problem of not being able to get a loan though, that needs fixing.
I suspect she'd be able to raise at least a quarter or even half the price of this place in a crowd funder if she had a legit actual plan to buy a place instead of just money to appease land lords.
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Yeah, that looks cool.
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Yeah, that looks cool.
Totally, I'd kill to have a space like that.
If I was single and had no family I would buy a large block of land and build a giant open warehouse type thing with mezanine floors (and fireman poles ;D Did I mention I like fireman's poles?)
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Yup, a guy in my area bought an old factory building with street-level garage door and another level in the back with alley access. It had clerestory windows in the back, an office space over the shop area and 3-phase power feed. He did a pretty major rebuild of the place, turned the office into a living space and such. He rented out the back half which helped the financial aspects. unfortunately, he developed cancer and died awfully young. But, it CAN be done!
Jon
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop in what looks like a nice neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
That looks like a bargain. Plenty of room to park a trailer (caravan) next to the building to live out of while renovating the building to put in a modern apartment for living space and then divide up the rest of the space between storage and workshop. $149k is peanuts.
Basically you are only paying for the land and the pleasure to remove a whole lot of garbage. The buildings have a negative value. I have no idea how much it would cost to erect a home, garage and office space but likely it isn't cheap. And it looks like the zoning designation doesn't allow commercial activities.
Yeah, that looks cool.
Totally, I'd kill to have a space like that.
If I was single and had no family I would buy a large block of land and build a giant open warehouse type thing with mezanine floors (and fireman poles ;D Did I mention I like fireman's poles?)
Doing construction work is not for everyone. You'd need the skills / experience, tools and to be able to work fulltime on such a project for weeks in order to make decent progress. I've seen various people take on construction projects that turned out to be way over their head. It is not as simple as they show on TV.
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Basically you are only paying for the land and the pleasure to remove a whole lot of garbage. The buildings have a negative value. I have no idea how much it would cost to erect a home, garage and office space but likely it isn't cheap. And it looks like the zoning designation doesn't allow commercial activities.
Just install bathroom and kitchen in the existing space and job done. Got to remember, this is the kind of space Fran is looking for, a big industrial type live/work space.
She doesn't need a home and has specifically said she wants a large live/work creative space.
What she does it hardly "commercial activities" and would be easily allowed in any existing home or gargage.
Doing construction work is not for everyone. You'd need the skills / experience, tools and to be able to work fulltime on such a project for weeks in order to make decent progress. I've seen various people take on construction projects that turned out to be way over their head. It is not as simple as they show on TV.
See Fran's latest video, she shows photos of construction work she has done on other places she has rented. Complete fitout of an empty space.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land
Or less. It was $169k for a month then the price dropped in November last year. I suspect they don't have anyone on the horizon and would seriously consider an offer.
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You'd need the skills / experience, tools and to be able to work fulltime on such a project for weeks in order to make decent progress
You mean like devoting a Youtube channel to it?
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land
Or less. It was $169k for a month then the price dropped in November last year. I suspect they don't have anyone on the horizon and would seriously consider an offer.
Yep, perfect opportunity to go inspect, roam the place for a few weeks to see if you like the neighborhood and then shoot a crowd funding video to see if it works.
Will probably still be available in a years time as most people would consider it land value only and the garage is just a an expense and inconvenience to demolish.
It's these kinds of places that you want to be looking for in a situation like this when you have a unique requirement that not many other have.
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$85k 2200sqft two story barn zoned for commercial:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/204-Strand-Ave-Sewell-NJ-08080/150557827_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/204-Strand-Ave-Sewell-NJ-08080/150557827_zpid/)
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Yikes, but 2000sqft place in Philly for $130k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6029-Elmwood-Ave-Philadelphia-PA-19142/10404269_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6029-Elmwood-Ave-Philadelphia-PA-19142/10404269_zpid/)
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Tons of places in Philly over 2000sqft under $200k in Philly.
Granted all require work or might be a shitty neighbourhood, but there is opportunity.
I think priority #1 must to to engineer a way to get home loan pre-approval, but hook or by crook, and then go hunting.
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Basically you are only paying for the land and the pleasure to remove a whole lot of garbage. The buildings have a negative value. I have no idea how much it would cost to erect a home, garage and office space but likely it isn't cheap. And it looks like the zoning designation doesn't allow commercial activities.
The land is of course the main value, but $149k for that land is a bargain. The buildings are not worth a lot but they're definitely not negative value, livable space could be put into one relatively easily and as they stand the garage bays are usable as storage. I've done similar construction projects myself, it's not THAT hard. Especially someone with the visibility of Fran could probably get a real contractor or at least an experienced handyman to do discounted work. The trash looks like mostly random wood, getting rid of that is easy, bonfire in the yard.
It's not trivial of course, but it's absolutely doable.
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Most of the places I've seen on that website have boarded up windows.
Whats the deal with that?
America ain't doing great.
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Most of the places I've seen on that website have boarded up windows.
Probably reduces the risk of squatting and vandalism.
Also might limit damp if the property is not heated.
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Basically you are only paying for the land and the pleasure to remove a whole lot of garbage. The buildings have a negative value. I have no idea how much it would cost to erect a home, garage and office space but likely it isn't cheap. And it looks like the zoning designation doesn't allow commercial activities.
The land is of course the main value, but $149k for that land is a bargain. The buildings are not worth a lot but they're definitely not negative value, livable space could be put into one relatively easily and as they stand the garage bays are usable as storage. I've done similar construction projects myself, it's not THAT hard. Especially someone with the visibility of Fran could probably get a real contractor or at least an experienced handyman to do discounted work. The trash looks like mostly random wood, getting rid of that is easy, bonfire in the yard.
It's not trivial of course, but it's absolutely doable.
I meant the buildings are also trash 8) It would not surprise me if you find a whole lot of rotten wood under the floor boards. It could also be in perfect condition but judging from the overall state of maintenance, I'd assume the worst. On top of that I wonder how comfortable and expensive such an old, wooden home (without modern insulation and airconditioning) is to live in.
But if Fran is up to doing the work (and create a whole bunch of content in the process) then it could be a really good fit. I didn't know Fran was also into construction work. Doing that yourself saves a lot of money and you know it is done right.
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I think priority #1 must to to engineer a way to get home loan pre-approval, but hook or by crook, and then go hunting.
I'll revise that. Step #1 is to stop the cash hemorrhaging from the 4 properties.
Move all 4 locations into a single cheap rented house outside of Philly and save like crazy for a few years.
Could likely save $20-30k a year doing this.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1322-Reservoir-Rd-Honey-Brook-PA-19344/54728335_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1322-Reservoir-Rd-Honey-Brook-PA-19344/54728335_zpid/?)
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/850-Franklin-St-Coatesville-PA-19320/67351400_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/850-Franklin-St-Coatesville-PA-19320/67351400_zpid/)
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BTW: What I always find strange about American homes is that the front door leads straight into the living room. So if you open the door, everyone can look into your home. And the cold / heat gets in. Over here we always have a (small) hallway that serves as an entry to the rest of the home.
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BTW: What I always find strange about American homes is that the front door leads straight into the living room. So if you open the door, everyone can look into your home. And the cold / heat gets in. Over here we always have a (small) hallway that serves as an entry to the rest of the home.
Around here no one uses the front door - they go in through the garage. :-DD
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the front door leads straight into the living room
Some places are like that here in the UK. Typically terraced 2-up/2-down with the stairs between the front and back rooms.
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BTW: What I always find strange about American homes is that the front door leads straight into the living room. So if you open the door, everyone can look into your home. And the cold / heat gets in. Over here we always have a (small) hallway that serves as an entry to the rest of the home.
Around here no one uses the front door - they go in through the garage. :-DD
Pretty much true of all of America. The front door does usually lead directly into the living room but it's mostly for aesthetics. Most American homes have significantly wider properties than homes in Europe and England and most Americans park beside their homes, or off to one side, and use the side entrance. That leaves the front yard, front door and yes, sometimes the living room, for show.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land in what looks like a realtively nice suburban neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
Wow! I just looked at the pictures and if I was in that area, I would JUMP on that! Those are real wood floors, probably hard wood floors, in the garage! And it has a huge four door garage and with a sliding door on the end and a sliding door on the side that gives access to the 2nd floor as well. And it looks like it was build when they really knew how to build well. And she'd be getting huge lot. I think that she might be able to sell off the upper part of that lot to someone else for a home site if she wanted to. The shed appears to be full of old boards but my guess is that that is probably all hard wood and would be quite valuable to wood workers. Fran could probably sell the lumber, tear down the shed and sell that side of the extra as well. If Fran would get that place and put her other projects on hold for a year or two while she fixed it up, I think she'd have a very nice place to live and to work, and could potentially make a LOT of money if she ever sold it. And look at the size of it's lot compared to the lots around it in the aerial view. Every property that I've seen in any large US metropolitan area in recent years that has a large lot is now bringing a super premium. Like James-s said, the lots are sometimes worth far more than the homes.
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BTW: What I always find strange about American homes is that the front door leads straight into the living room. So if you open the door, everyone can look into your home. And the cold / heat gets in. Over here we always have a (small) hallway that serves as an entry to the rest of the home.
That's common but not universal. My house is a split level, they built millions of them in the 60s-70s, the front door opens to a landing with a staircase that goes up to the main living space on one side and down to the basement on the other. They were often sold as starter homes with an unfinished basement with the idea being you'd live on the upper floor until you could afford to finish the basement to your liking. There are countless other floor plans out there including custom homes designed by the purchaser.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land in what looks like a realtively nice suburban neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
Wow! I just looked at the pictures and if I was in that area, I would JUMP on that! Those are real wood floors, probably hard wood floors, in the garage! And it has a huge four door garage and with a sliding door on the end and a sliding door on the side that gives access to the 2nd floor as well. And it looks like it was build when they really knew how to build well. And she'd be getting huge lot. I think that she might be able to sell off the upper part of that lot to someone else for a home site if she wanted to. The shed appears to be full of old boards but my guess is that that is probably all hard wood and would be quite valuable to wood workers. Fran could probably sell the lumber, tear down the shed and sell that side of the extra as well. If Fran would get that place and put her other projects on hold for a year or two while she fixed it up, I think she'd have a very nice place to live and to work, and could potentially make a LOT of money if she ever sold it. And look at the size of it's lot compared to the lots around it in the aerial view. Every property that I've seen in any large US metropolitan area in recent years that has a large lot is now bringing a super premium. Like James-s said, the lots are sometimes worth far more than the homes.
If that is the case, then why didn't the property sell yet? :-//
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If that is the case, then why didn't the property sell yet? :-//
Any number of reasons. The largest is probably that the vast majority of people are looking for a turnkey move-in ready home, not a project. Even fewer are going to want a project that is in an economically depressed high crime area like Philadelphia. Fran is not everybody though, for reasons I cannot grasp she actually wants to live in that area, and she apparently doesn't want a picture perfect suburban home so a place like this could be a good deal. Obviously most people are going to want something different.
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BTW: What I always find strange about American homes is that the front door leads straight into the living room. So if you open the door, everyone can look into your home. And the cold / heat gets in. Over here we always have a (small) hallway that serves as an entry to the rest of the home.
Different places, different approaches indeed.
Another point that I've always found odd in many american houses, but not only, it's actually pretty common in many other countries, is the fact there are rarely window shutters. They have curtains, but no shutters. That may depend on the region though, haven't seen all of the USA! But I've seen the same thing in Norway too. I find it odd. Over here, window shutters have been the norm for ages. There are practically no house with no shutters.
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In the NL you won't find window shutters either. From what I've seen these are only a 'thing' in hot climates to keep the heat from the sun out out during the day.
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Another point that I've always found odd in many american houses, but not only, it's actually pretty common in many other countries, is the fact there are rarely window shutters. They have curtains, but no shutters. That may depend on the region though, haven't seen all of the USA! But I've seen the same thing in Norway too. I find it odd. Over here, window shutters have been the norm for ages. There are practically no house with no shutters.
I think shutters are a thing in hurricane regions, I've never seen them out here, although for a while it was popular for houses to have silly decorative fake shutters screwed onto either side of the window, 60s-70s thing I think and it looks dumb. Having never lived in a house with shutters I don't fully understand their purpose, I'm not sure how they would work with larger windows or how you'd open and close them. At least with the type of windows that are common here only a portion of it slides horizontally to open.
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With most American houses, only visitors will come to the front door. Residents will use the back/side door because it's closer to where the cars are parked and usually the shortest distance to the kitchen which is important when unloading groceries.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land in what looks like a realtively nice suburban neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
Wow! I just looked at the pictures and if I was in that area, I would JUMP on that! Those are real wood floors, probably hard wood floors, in the garage! And it has a huge four door garage and with a sliding door on the end and a sliding door on the side that gives access to the 2nd floor as well. And it looks like it was build when they really knew how to build well. And she'd be getting huge lot. I think that she might be able to sell off the upper part of that lot to someone else for a home site if she wanted to. The shed appears to be full of old boards but my guess is that that is probably all hard wood and would be quite valuable to wood workers. Fran could probably sell the lumber, tear down the shed and sell that side of the extra as well. If Fran would get that place and put her other projects on hold for a year or two while she fixed it up, I think she'd have a very nice place to live and to work, and could potentially make a LOT of money if she ever sold it. And look at the size of it's lot compared to the lots around it in the aerial view. Every property that I've seen in any large US metropolitan area in recent years that has a large lot is now bringing a super premium. Like James-s said, the lots are sometimes worth far more than the homes.
If that is the case, then why didn't the property sell yet? :-//
99.9% of the market want a house, and probably 90% of those want a renovated house.
This is giant run down old barn that is useless, and would cost a fair bit to knock down and remove it all to build a house.
Add in a depressed market and it's no surprise it's not seling fast and they have dropped the price.
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$149k for 4000sqft garage workshop on 0.5acre of land in what looks like a realtively nice suburban neighborhood. Some elbow grease required. 1hr from Philly
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/223-E-Walnut-St-Birdsboro-PA-19508/2061135479_zpid/?)
Wow! I just looked at the pictures and if I was in that area, I would JUMP on that! Those are real wood floors, probably hard wood floors, in the garage! And it has a huge four door garage and with a sliding door on the end and a sliding door on the side that gives access to the 2nd floor as well. And it looks like it was build when they really knew how to build well. And she'd be getting huge lot. I think that she might be able to sell off the upper part of that lot to someone else for a home site if she wanted to. The shed appears to be full of old boards but my guess is that that is probably all hard wood and would be quite valuable to wood workers. Fran could probably sell the lumber, tear down the shed and sell that side of the extra as well. If Fran would get that place and put her other projects on hold for a year or two while she fixed it up, I think she'd have a very nice place to live and to work, and could potentially make a LOT of money if she ever sold it. And look at the size of it's lot compared to the lots around it in the aerial view. Every property that I've seen in any large US metropolitan area in recent years that has a large lot is now bringing a super premium. Like James-s said, the lots are sometimes worth far more than the homes.
If that is the case, then why didn't the property sell yet? :-//
99.9% of the market want a house, and probably 90% of those want a renovated house.
This is giant run down old barn that is useless, and would cost a fair bit to knock down and remove it all to build a house.
Add in a depressed market and it's no surprise it's not seling fast and they have dropped the price.
Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects. And it's pretty much addressing the opposite of the gentrification trend that had been going on. So no wonder at all.
It's a right fit for small businesses though and people willing to do some work.
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Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.
In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.
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Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.
In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.
For an additional $20k and some work, I'm sure you can get a bathroom and kitchen done.
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For an additional $20k and some work, I'm sure you can get a bathroom and kitchen done.
Yes but most people don't want this, they want a house that is all ready to move into. People get excited over the dumbest stuff, have you ever seen one of those house hunter shows? They fall in love with granite countertops in the kitchen or the flooring, nobody even notices the important stuff like the structure, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc. It's just silly cosmetic stuff they go nuts over.
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Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.
In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.
For an additional $20k and some work, I'm sure you can get a bathroom and kitchen done.
Yep, but the thing is almost nobody wants to do that.
You'd have the be in Fran's position of being single without a family and be specifically looking for like 90% lab/workshop space and 10% living space.
Sadly I know Fran isn't going to be the least bit interested in this, it's Philly (and very specific parts of Philly) or bust.
There are actually run down 2000sqft places in Philly for this price or even less, but you'd probably need to build automated gun turrets ;D
Even warehouse spaces I've suggested in Philly have been instantly rebuked.
But I still just enjoy looking even if I'm not going suggest them to her any more.
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Maybe she'll eventually embrace the idea. May require some time to sink in.
Also, if she's really afraid of leaving Philly, 1h away looks like too much, but maybe she can find something a bit closer. A 20 min commute, if she really still wants to live in Philly, could work. She could rent an affordable place just as a home for a fraction of what she pays now, and have ample space for work.
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I almost wonder if she wants to fail for some reason, I just can't think of any other reason for someone to be *that* rigid. Maintaining the status quo CANNOT work, the places she wants simply no longer exist and they are never coming back. Change sucks, but it is one of the few things you can count on.
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Absolutely. The market is depressed and the house as it is is for niche projects.
In this case it doesn't even have a single toilet, and no kitchen, it's essentially just a big barn.
I'd kill for a place like this near my home, or having land big enough to build something.
Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.) It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live. So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.
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Indeed. In a place like this I suspect you need to go all in cash. The mortgage appraiser is king in this process and such rundown place would be hard to evaluate from the bank's perspective: no infrastructure, no livable area, thus leading to only a handful of comps. This might be another reason why it hasn't sold yet: the bank might be simply lowballing their appraisal value.
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1970s stuff however I'm not that fond of.
I love the 70s. My house was built in 1979 and is mostly original. I like 70s architecture, light fixtures, lamps, furniture and almost everything else. It is the stuff I remember from my childhood and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. The 80s had some good stuff, but I'm much less a fan of 80s light fixtures, too much brass and crystal.
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Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.) It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live. So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.
Silly rules like that annoy me. When my friend's house was renovated after a fire he had a subpanel installed in the garage to wire up later. To pass the inspection though there was a minimum requirement of at least one circuit wired to something from the panel so the electrician installed a useless light socket on the wall next to the panel and wired it up to a single breaker. It was completely pointless to have a light there on its own dedicated circuit but it checked all the boxes for the inspector to sign off on it.
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Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.) It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live. So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.
That's also the case here I believe (or was), you can't get a loan for just land. You have the have a signed loan/land package if it's not built yet, or some equivalent plan in place to build.
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If I had the money I would pay 20 chinese immigrants $2500 each to build us an underground bunker. That or an island made from garbage.
This above ground stuff confuses me and I've always felt at home amongst garbage.
:-DD
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If I had the money I would pay 20 chinese immigrants $2500 each to build us an underground bunker. That or an island made from garbage.
This above ground stuff confuses me and I've always felt at home amongst garbage.
Or build a concrete bunker above ground (less likely to flooded and you don't have to pump sewage out of the pit either) and hire one guy with a bulldozer to build a hill on top of you.
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Sometimes the garbage is not outside, but inside of you.
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Sometimes the garbage is not outside, but inside of you.
Are you referring to my mind or my digestive system? 8)
I have a friend who believes humans Finns should all live in urban areas. I happen to disagree, having lived in both rural and urban areas. My friend has not, and I believe it shows in his basis for his opinion.
Similarly, I wonder how much of Fran's rejection of all but central Philly options is because that's what she is used to? How much of her objections and rejections are just a shield against any change? That, perhaps, changing the situation now would be admitting that her original choice of Philly was not based on rational or objective reasons, but for emotive reasons based on assumptions and feelings; and re-evaluating those now, would feel like admitting defeat or error? Perhaps feel like it would be admitting wasting years of her life there?
I'm an avid advocate of such self-reflection, and before you point it out, yes, I too can see I am projecting some of my own thoughts on Fran here. In some ways, I'm in a similar situation, living near the center of a largeish city. I'm almost 50 myself, no dependants. In other ways, I don't have over-large expenses or anything like that, and am just pondering where I myself might be/become happiest. The things that seem initially important and first come to my mind, tend to crumble to insignificance and reveal just 'force of habit' and 'crude superficial assumptions'.
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I rarely use emoticons, but this one appears to be very appropriate to describe this thread. Here it is ---> :horse:
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I'm an avid advocate of such self-reflection, and before you point it out, yes, I too can see I am projecting some of my own thoughts on Fran here. In some ways, I'm in a similar situation, living near the center of a largeish city. I'm almost 50 myself, no dependants. In other ways, I don't have over-large expenses or anything like that, and am just pondering where I myself might be/become happiest. The things that seem initially important and first come to my mind, tend to crumble to insignificance and reveal just 'force of habit' and 'crude superficial assumptions'.
We just spent a few weeks on a large property, and Mrs EEVblog has always flat out rejected moving home for a multitude of reasons. All legit of course. Just streets away from her parents, she loves her home, kids love the home, neighbours are great, close to transport for her work, almost every service we need a stones throw away, etc.
But I just saw the first chink in the armour, and I now think she's not totally against moving to a bigger property. Nearby of course, so the kids can still go the same school and she can still get to work.
So cue the next crypto boom and you might find me doing build videos constructing a gigantic backyard lab ;D
Of course if we really wanted to we could sell the home and the lab and storage units and move into a bigger place, but that's one of those massive commitment steps you'd never take unless you really had to. Too easy to just tweak our little slice of existing comfort.
In Fran's case I think drastic change will only come if the Patreon income collapses.
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I rarely use emoticons, but this one appears to be very appropriate to describe this thread. Here it is ---> :horse:
Yeah that's what happens when you lead a horse to water and it just won't drink.
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The horse will drink when it’s thirsty enough; until then, let it be…
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I'm an avid advocate of such self-reflection, and before you point it out, yes, I too can see I am projecting some of my own thoughts on Fran here. In some ways, I'm in a similar situation, living near the center of a largeish city. I'm almost 50 myself, no dependants. In other ways, I don't have over-large expenses or anything like that, and am just pondering where I myself might be/become happiest. The things that seem initially important and first come to my mind, tend to crumble to insignificance and reveal just 'force of habit' and 'crude superficial assumptions'.
We just spent a few weeks on a large property, and Mrs EEVblog has always flat out rejected moving home for a multitude of reasons. All legit of course. Just streets away from her parents, she loves her home, kids love the home, neighbours are great, close to transport for her work, almost every service we need a stones throw away, etc.
But I just saw the first chink in the armour, and I now think she's not totally against moving to a bigger property. Nearby of course, so the kids can still go the same school and she can still get to work.
So cue the next crypto boom and you might find me doing build videos constructing a gigantic backyard lab ;D
Of course if we really wanted to we could sell the home and the lab and storage units and move into a bigger place, but that's one of those massive commitment steps you'd never take unless you really had to. Too easy to just tweak our little slice of existing comfort.
Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.
Originally I had the plan to move to a bigger home at some point but other stuff got in the way. Nowadays I could get a mortgage for a much bigger place but my kids are almost at the age that they'll move out and then the extra space really isn't needed. I've also put quite a bit of work into upgrading our current home. Yes, having land for a big shed would be nice but I think I'll help my youngest son to get a plot of land to built a home AND a big shed on (so I can use it as well). >:D
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Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.
Typically you move again at that point back to a smaller place, and you end up with cash left over that you can do other things with.
So not really an issue.
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Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.
Originally I had the plan to move to a bigger home at some point but other stuff got in the way. Nowadays I could get a mortgage for a much bigger place but my kids are almost at the age that they'll move out and then the extra space really isn't needed. I've also put quite a bit of work into upgrading our current home. Yes, having land for a big shed would be nice but I think I'll help my youngest son to get a plot of land to built a home AND a big shed on (so I can use it as well). >:D
You don't need much to build a big shed. Our land is 750sqm. Even 1200sqm would be enough if the land and house is proportioned right.
In Australia kids don't usually don't leave home for university, it's not a thing here. So we have a good 15 years left at least before that's likely to happen.
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Keep in mind that having a bigger place also means more cleaning &upkeep to do. Your kids will move out at some point and then you just have a lot of space just sitting there that needs to be kept tidy either way. The latter will be more difficult when you get older.
Typically you move again at that point back to a smaller place, and you end up with cash left over that you can do other things with.
So not really an issue.
The thing is that my home is in a super good location. I doubt I find something similar somewhere else and it will be paid off in a couple of years. I don't really want to move and have to arrange everything to my liking again. I have moved 4 times in my life already and I'm done moving. Next place for me is a grave or nursing home. I could be persuaded to buy a vacation home in a warm country to spend a couple of weeks per year in (and rent it out for the rest of the year).
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How do you climb a mountain? One step at a time... I really dislike people with a "can't do, impossible job, will fail" attitude. With such an attitude you won't get far and keep paying through the nose to have something done you can easely do yourself.
Or swim across the Pacific Ocean - one stroke at a time. At least until you're out in the middle and your muscles are too exhausted to continue. So no, everything can't be done by just taking one step at a time, there has to be some consideration of what's actually physically possible. While underestimating your ability prevents getting it done, overestimating can get you in serious trouble - people die thinking they can do what they can't.
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How do you climb a mountain? One step at a time... I really dislike people with a "can't do, impossible job, will fail" attitude. With such an attitude you won't get far and keep paying through the nose to have something done you can easely do yourself.
Or swim across the Pacific Ocean - one stroke at a time. At least until you're out in the middle and your muscles are too exhausted to continue. So no, everything can't be done by just taking one step at a time, there has to be some consideration of what's actually physically possible. While underestimating your ability prevents getting it done, overestimating can get you in serious trouble - people die thinking they can do what they can't.
Geeez, some people really take everything literal! |O
Let me explain then: when faced with a complicated situation, brake it up in parts and deal with it piece by piece. And you don't need to do it alone; ask for help if you need it. That is how you get through life without getting stuck dealing with a problem.
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You don't need much to build a big shed. Our house is 750sqm. Even 1200sqm would be enough if the land and house is proportioned right.
In Australia kids don't usually don't leave home for university, it's not a thing here. So we have a good 15 years left at least before that's likely to happen.
Your house is 750 sqm? 8,000 square ft?! Or do you mean the lot the house is on?
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You don't need much to build a big shed. Our house is 750sqm. Even 1200sqm would be enough if the land and house is proportioned right.
In Australia kids don't usually don't leave home for university, it's not a thing here. So we have a good 15 years left at least before that's likely to happen.
Your house is 750 sqm? 8,000 square ft?! Or do you mean the lot the house is on?
I was wondering the same! 750sqm for a house is huge but it could make sense for the size of a plot of land. IIRC Dave has been mentioning an extension to his house...
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You don't need much to build a big shed. Our house is 750sqm. Even 1200sqm would be enough if the land and house is proportioned right.
In Australia kids don't usually don't leave home for university, it's not a thing here. So we have a good 15 years left at least before that's likely to happen.
Your house is 750 sqm? 8,000 square ft?! Or do you mean the lot the house is on?
The land, obviously.
We have a relatively small house for our area, even with the extension we did 5 years ago. Hence we are planing an upstairs extension (one large room) as we have no more land left to extend outward. But there is currently a construction worker crisis happening so not sure what's going to happen there. I wouldn't want to be building a house in Australia right now, the smart money is buying an existing house right now.
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Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.) It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live. So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.
That's also the case here I believe (or was), you can't get a loan for just land. You have the have a signed loan/land package if it's not built yet, or some equivalent plan in place to build.
That's not true in the US. Farmers do it all of the time. :-) So do housing developers. :-(
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The land, obviously.
We have a relatively small house for our area, even with the extension we did 5 years ago. Hence we are planing an upstairs extension (one large room) as we have no more land left to extend outward. But there is currently a construction worker crisis happening so not sure what's going to happen there. I wouldn't want to be building a house in Australia right now, the smart money is buying an existing house right now.
That makes more sense, although it's not totally obvious, there are a few 8,000 sq ft houses not too far from me although not many are *that* large. I think my lot is about 10,000 sq ft but about 10' of it on two sides is on a steep hill so not really useful for much.
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Let me explain then: when faced with a complicated situation, brake it up in parts and deal with it piece by piece. And you don't need to do it alone; ask for help if you need it. That is how you get through life without getting stuck dealing with a problem.
And sometime you need a plan(s) to change course instead of dealing with a problem piece by piece.
In Fran's situtation, what is needeed IMO is a plan for various scenarios. Solving her problems "piece by piece" seems to how she's ended up in this scenario.
Every issue here can be solved with cash, so scaling back epenses and saving cash any way possible will never be a bad option for starters.
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Don't know specifically about US mortgages, but in the UK you can only get a residential mortgage on a property if the property has: working plumbing (at least one sink and one bath/shower), working toilet, provision for electrical power, and at least one form of cooking appliance (microwave doesn't count.) It must meet the "minimum standard" of being somewhere someone could live. So in some of these places you will literally see a toilet plumbed into the living room and a knackered old cooker left behind because that means it can be sold to someone with a mortgage.
That's also the case here I believe (or was), you can't get a loan for just land. You have the have a signed loan/land package if it's not built yet, or some equivalent plan in place to build.
That's not true in the US. Farmers do it all of the time. :-) So do housing developers. :-(
Those are business loans!
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No, not always. If your income and credit is good enough you can borrow money to buy land using a personal loan. I looked at borrowing money to buy raw land years ago to build a house on and my credit union was more than wiling to give me a loan.
And no one said what kind of loans. The statement was that you could only get loans for homes or for land with a home and not just for land. It's very common in the US to get a short term loan to buy land with and then build a home on it and then refinance the land and home package at a lower interest rate. My father did that twice. Shoot, my grandparents did the same in 1934 when they moved to Georgia. When my uncle returned from WW-II he took out a loan in 1946 to buy 300 acres of land near his parents. He lived with his folks and farmed that land until he build a house there in 1956. Not everyone buys a ready made house in the subdivisions.
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Fran has a business, at least technically. Could she not claim that the location being purchased is a facility to grow that business?
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Fran has a business, at least technically. Could she not claim that the location being purchased is a facility to grow that business?
She doesn't have much cash flow that the banks would recognize as stable income, which is why she couldn't get loans the last time she was in the moving situation. And as it turns out, the banks were entirely correct in that evaluation! Youtube/patron/solicited/gift money is not reliable long-term income!
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No, not always. If your income and credit is good enough you can borrow money to buy land using a personal loan. I looked at borrowing money to buy raw land years ago to build a house on and my credit union was more than wiling to give me a loan.
We where talking about mortgages here. And mortgages typically have realestate (a building) as an collateral that can be repossed if necessary. However, if you have enough income that a collateral for a loan isn't necessary, then yes, you can buy whatever you want.
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Let me explain then: when faced with a complicated situation, brake it up in parts and deal with it piece by piece. And you don't need to do it alone; ask for help if you need it. That is how you get through life without getting stuck dealing with a problem.
And sometime you need a plan(s) to change course instead of dealing with a problem piece by piece.
In Fran's situtation, what is needeed IMO is a plan for various scenarios. Solving her problems "piece by piece" seems to how she's ended up in this scenario.
Every issue here can be solved with cash, so scaling back epenses and saving cash any way possible will never be a bad option for starters.
Ofcourse there has to be an overall plan (that should go without saying). But it will still need to be executed in steps.
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Fran has a business, at least technically. Could she not claim that the location being purchased is a facility to grow that business?
Not sure about the US, but here a business property loan is not as good as the low rates of a home loan.
It would also likely deemed to be a commercial property loan, in which case the rates are way higher and usually require a much bigger deposit.
But she has already said many times it's impossible to get a personal home loan in her situtation, as most of her income comes from Patreon which is not deemed to be business income.
I can't however see why she can't restructure the business as an LLC or whatever and at least try to get a business loan.
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Fran has a business, at least technically. Could she not claim that the location being purchased is a facility to grow that business?
She doesn't have much cash flow that the banks would recognize as stable income, which is why she couldn't get loans the last time she was in the moving situation. And as it turns out, the banks were entirely correct in that evaluation! Youtube/patron/solicited/gift money is not reliable long-term income!
For my personal property loan the banks did require an income statment from my accountant for my Pty Ltd business, and that didn't break down income into Patreon income/donations.
So all the banks were looking for was consistentcy of business income, they didn't really care nor ask for where it came from.
I refuse to believe that it's not possible for Fran the restructure her business in some way that obfuscates the income source.
If the banks see the detail that the income comes from Patreon then you aren't doing it right.
Maybe the US is vastly different, but I doub it, remember it's the land of the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis that still perpetuates to this day in many ways.
If there is a will there is a way, but the problem is there is no will(ingness) to be flexible in location for starters.
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What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608 (https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608)
Includes a giant 90sqm lab.
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Really nice place.
Remind me why I might want to pay someone else to live there. I think there is a subtle difference between helping someone survive, and going without so they can live the life of Riley.
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I refuse to believe that it's not possible for Fran the restructure her business in some way that obfuscates the income source.
Yeah. The main issue there is the amount - does she make enough - and, if she has to restructure her business now, it might take a couple years before new income statements are ready for a bank loan.
But you gotta start.
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Yeah. The main issue there is the amount - does she make enough - and, if she has to restructure her business now, it might take a couple years before new income statements are ready for a bank loan.
But you gotta start.
In one of her videos she mentioned she has enough income to get a loan for a place, but the issues is the techicalities of actually getting the loan.
She showed in a video that expenses were over $70k last year, expected to rise to $80k this year, so income must be higher unless she is dipping into savings to cover the difference.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4540310/?topicseen#msg4540310 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4540310/?topicseen#msg4540310)
This is way above the average household income in many cities.
But yes, you'd usually have to show a couple of years worth of income.
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Yep. But yes that's significant expenses, and certainly with less than this she could pay a loan for a reasonable place and get it paid within only a few years, while still having enough for other expenses and saving some.
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Yeah. The main issue there is the amount - does she make enough - and, if she has to restructure her business now, it might take a couple years before new income statements are ready for a bank loan.
But you gotta start.
In one of her videos she mentioned she has enough income to get a loan for a place, but the issues is the techicalities of actually getting the loan.
She showed in a video that expenses were over $70k last year, expected to rise to $80k this year, so income must be higher unless she is dipping into savings to cover the difference.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4540310/?topicseen#msg4540310 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4540310/?topicseen#msg4540310)
This is way above the average household income in many cities.
But yes, you'd usually have to show a couple of years worth of income.
Indeed. But if you have enough income and show it is stable, it shouldn't be a problem. IMHO it is all about how the income is presented to a bank. Being a sole proprietor myself, I had to provide some extra paperwork (like income taxes) and the number of banks I could apply for a mortgage where not large (*) but I still got my mortgage refinanced without much hassle. Like others I have the feeling Fran is organising things in a way that makes it unnecessarily complicated for herself to get a mortgage. Almost like she is setting herself up to fail. If I look at various US websites, getting a mortgage after being 'in business' as a sole proprietor for a couple of years should not be a problem at all. But we have been over this before...
* Which was partly my choice due to not wanting to deal with a larger amount of paperwork.
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In one of her videos she mentioned she has enough income to get a loan for a place, but the issues is the techicalities of actually getting the loan.
She showed in a video that expenses were over $70k last year, expected to rise to $80k this year, so income must be higher unless she is dipping into savings to cover the difference.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4540310/?topicseen#msg4540310 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4540310/?topicseen#msg4540310)
This is way above the average household income in many cities.
But yes, you'd usually have to show a couple of years worth of income.
If her expenses are over $70k she must be making good money, more than I've ever made, because taxes take a pretty big chunk out of income, around 30% give or take depending on the state and other factors.
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And sometime you need a plan(s) to change course instead of dealing with a problem piece by piece.
In Fran's situtation, what is needeed IMO is a plan for various scenarios. Solving her problems "piece by piece" seems to how she's ended up in this scenario.
Every issue here can be solved with cash, so scaling back epenses and saving cash any way possible will never be a bad option for starters.
Fran kind of reminds me of a lobster in a pot. We are sometimes more likely to tolerate a bad situation if we get there through slow and steady changes. Sometimes planning a threshold ahead of time can help one realize the 'water is too hot'.
Sometimes it helps just to ask where that threshold is: "if it's not bad enough yet to justify a change, when will it be bad enough? What will it take?"
That at least creates a scenario to start planning a change. Then the change becomes feasible. Then the question, "why not just make the change now?"
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https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608 (https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608)
Includes a giant 90sqm lab.
What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
$3,285,000? :-DD
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https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608 (https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608)
Includes a giant 90sqm lab.
What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
$3,285,000? :-DD
(https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D12AQHLrda39HY2DQ/article-cover_image-shrink_600_2000/0/1625573551864?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=7Ja3xLksIZ-DsF0ARLVkZLRkNEcKsRf_asR8339B_U8)
Is it too late to up it to this?
https://www.domain.com.au/3382-old-northern-road-glenorie-nsw-2157-2018213428 (https://www.domain.com.au/3382-old-northern-road-glenorie-nsw-2157-2018213428)
(https://rimh2.domainstatic.com.au/ckAMETShqXzIXWL21Ny9OH7qB-s=/fit-in/1920x1080/filters:format(jpeg):quality(80):no_upscale()/2018213428_1_1_221121_040644-w2135-h1200)
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Give that lawn and shrubbery a few weeks to fester :scared:
and there won't be much lab time to spare, much less uploading proceedings to Youtube
or reading and replying to comments
Coupla days for a Jim's Gardening team = Patreon funds toast
But.. moving in to the place on the left might work
and rent out the rest of it to some retired rich trash with 6 kids and 60 grandkids,
mostly over qualified diploma wavers :palm: basically lazyass unemployables in the current real world.
Half of them will be gamers sporting black T-Shirts and wierd Shintaro haircuts,
and not even know the grandparents names.
I like the place on the left and if the caravan is part of the deal = win win :clap:
Has the lady considered a property share arrangement, with another Youtuber for example?
Half rent, half maintenance etc
A better deal than the royal boot from the Sheriff with vacate orders
and furniture and test gear getting rained on the nature strip :(
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Has the lady considered a property share arrangement, with another Youtuber for example?
Half rent, half maintenance etc
Not that I'm aware of. Fran strikes me as the independent type.
Sharing an apartment would lower the expenses a bit, but not the three other spaces. Moving out of Philly into one big space would be a way better option financially.
Remember that she needs at least 2000sqft incuding an industrial type space. So not really compatible with the usual share arrangements.
Almost any large rented house option outside of Philly could half her total expenses overnight.
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https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608 (https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608)
Includes a giant 90sqm lab.
What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
$3,285,000? :-DD
Is it too late to up it to this?
https://www.domain.com.au/3382-old-northern-road-glenorie-nsw-2157-2018213428 (https://www.domain.com.au/3382-old-northern-road-glenorie-nsw-2157-2018213428)
(https://rimh2.domainstatic.com.au/ckAMETShqXzIXWL21Ny9OH7qB-s=/fit-in/1920x1080/filters:format(jpeg):quality(80):no_upscale()/2018213428_1_1_221121_040644-w2135-h1200)
Don't think so. You could do endless videos on keeping your lawn in perfect condition by mowing it by hand. Plenty of space for cats too. You'll need to post a daily cat video to generate more revenue to pay for upkeep :-DD
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Don't think so. You could do endless videos on keeping your lawn in perfect condition by mowing it by hand. Plenty of space for cats too. You'll need to post a daily cat video to generate more revenue to pay for upkeep :-DD
Solar powered GPS electric lawn mower project.
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Solar powered GPS electric lawn mower project.
I'd follow that!! :-+
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https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608 (https://www.domain.com.au/10-o-keefe-road-annangrove-nsw-2156-2018031608)
Includes a giant 90sqm lab.
What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
$3,285,000? :-DD
(https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D12AQHLrda39HY2DQ/article-cover_image-shrink_600_2000/0/1625573551864?e=2147483647&v=beta&t=7Ja3xLksIZ-DsF0ARLVkZLRkNEcKsRf_asR8339B_U8)
(Ever the optimist) ..... Why not?!!
Is it too late to up it to this?
https://www.domain.com.au/3382-old-northern-road-glenorie-nsw-2157-2018213428 (https://www.domain.com.au/3382-old-northern-road-glenorie-nsw-2157-2018213428)
(https://rimh2.domainstatic.com.au/ckAMETShqXzIXWL21Ny9OH7qB-s=/fit-in/1920x1080/filters:format(jpeg):quality(80):no_upscale()/2018213428_1_1_221121_040644-w2135-h1200)
Anything is possible.
(Just don't bet your house on it.)
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you could do endless videos on keeping your lawn in perfect condition by mowing it by hand.
half a dozen sheep ,although the neighbours maybe concerned you've started up a knocking shop.
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What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
VERY low IMO. Most people already think that her current situation simply isn't viable and I don't think that anyone is willing to pour more money into what we all see as a sinking ship. OTOH if she came up with a viable plan for the future then the internet community might support her. Even if she got a good sum of donated money, the problem still remains that her expenses exceed her income and eventually she would still be broke.
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What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
VERY low IMO. Most people already think that her current situation simply isn't viable and I don't think that anyone is willing to pour more money into what we all see as a sinking ship. OTOH if she came up with a viable plan for the future then the internet community might support her. Even if she got a good sum of donated money, the problem still remains that her expenses exceed her income and eventually she would still be broke.
She raised something like $45k last time but that was because of imminent eviction. And you are right, I think people would likely support a solid plan to move out of Philly and buy a place, rather than the money just going into the coffers of Jared Kushner again (who owned her last lab building). If it's just to rent 4 places again in Philly, odds of a nother crowd funder working a slim.
Last time around I found a $79k house in nearby Reading for sale that even had industrial use zoning, but she wasn't interested. Estimate for the same place is now $155k.
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What are the odds of a GoFundMe working?
VERY low IMO. Most people already think that her current situation simply isn't viable and I don't think that anyone is willing to pour more money into what we all see as a sinking ship. OTOH if she came up with a viable plan for the future then the internet community might support her. Even if she got a good sum of donated money, the problem still remains that her expenses exceed her income and eventually she would still be broke.
She raised something like $45k last time but that was because of imminent eviction. And you are right, I think people would likely support a solid plan to move out of Philly and buy a place, rather than the money just going into the coffers of Jared Kushner again (who owned her last lab building). If it's just to rent 4 places again in Philly, odds of a nother crowd funder working a slim.
Last time around I found a $79k house in nearby Reading for sale that even had industrial use zoning, but she wasn't interested. Estimate for the same place is now $155k.
Yep, I would chip in a few bucks toward a viable plan to get into a sustainable living situation. I will not contribute any of my money toward kicking the can down the road. It doesn't fix anything, it just delays the inevitable by some amount of time.
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Is she still using her gender as an excuse to not move into a cheaper area? Not sure who would even fall for that when there are so many places where single old women live just fine.
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just fine :-DD
You should put a disclaimer on that so you are not responsible for the home invasion etc.
Amazing how much people change when they move out of crappy neighborhoods. It's like they got off crack, suddenly people stop being paranoid about time of day, whos around, what was that noise, who got mugged etc.
A person in a good area has to give like 10 reassurances of what hood shit you don't need to worry about while at their house (anti crack head protocols, gang avoidance, so forth). And when rich people go where the poor are its like a war reporter. You are totally delusional if you don't think that's real.
Its more like plenty of people manage to some how get by at great personal cost.
Put a cardboard box for a big screen tv in front of someones house in a bad place, neighbors are gonna call the cops on them for making the street unsafe because of the camouflage fail ;D
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A person in a good area has to give like 10 reassurances of what hood shit you don't need to worry about while at their house (anti crack head protocols, gang avoidance, so forth). And when rich people go where the poor are its like a war reporter. You are totally delusional if you don't think that's real.
I grew up and live in the sticks, the kind of rural place where I don't even know where the keys to my front door are and you leave the car running when you run into a shop so the defroster warms up.
I've had family and friends from rougher areas come over, and it's amazing how uncomfortable they are in the dark and silent countryside... It's like they freak out because it's too quiet, waiting for the next siren. So, now instead of worrying about being mugged or shot, they think of 'cabin in the woods' Manson crime or something.
I couldn't live with that level of stress.
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I grew up and live in the sticks, the kind of rural place where I don't even know where the keys to my front door are and you leave the car running when you run into a shop so the defroster warms up.
I've had family and friends from rougher areas come over, and it's amazing how uncomfortable they are in the dark and silent countryside... It's like they freak out because it's too quiet, waiting for the next siren. So, now instead of worrying about being mugged or shot, they think of 'cabin in the woods' Manson crime or something.
I couldn't live with that level of stress.
I grew up in one of the worst suburbs in the Sydney, and it's paradise compared to the stories I hear about living in some major US cities like Philly. And I've seen countless documentaries and videos of how those cities have just spiralled into hell holes. Just doing a virtual walkthrough of Philly on Google street view is enough to scare me away for life. And you pay a premium to live there in constant fear, it's nuts.
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Philly was the first time I saw that they stationed police officers inside hotel lobbies. Not security guards - actual police officers. It was like going to Mexico and seeing the army patrol the tourist beaches.
Actually, I felt safer in Mexico than Philly.
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Philly was the first time I saw that they stationed police officers inside hotel lobbies. Not security guards - actual police officers. It was like going to Mexico and seeing the army patrol the tourist beaches.
In the local Apple store here they have a city police officer (stressing - not a security guard). I asked why the need for it? The salesperson said because people come in and get furious when they find out their device is out of warranty and will have to pay for service. They start wrecking the displays they get so mad. :palm:
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Philly was the first time I saw that they stationed police officers inside hotel lobbies. Not security guards - actual police officers.
Here in NSW you can hire police officers for private security work:
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/user_charges_user_pays_policing_services (https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/user_charges_user_pays_policing_services)
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Here in NSW you can hire police officers for private security work:
https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/user_charges_user_pays_policing_services (https://www.police.nsw.gov.au/online_services/user_charges_user_pays_policing_services)
You can in the USA as well. Off-duty cops will work as security guards. I believe they are allowed to wear their uniforms and badges, and carry their sidearms.
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I grew up and live in the sticks, the kind of rural place where I don't even know where the keys to my front door are and you leave the car running when you run into a shop so the defroster warms up.
I've had family and friends from rougher areas come over, and it's amazing how uncomfortable they are in the dark and silent countryside... It's like they freak out because it's too quiet, waiting for the next siren. So, now instead of worrying about being mugged or shot, they think of 'cabin in the woods' Manson crime or something.
I couldn't live with that level of stress.
That sounds lovely. Years ago I visited a place called Barrhead in central Alberta and it was a lot like that. I remember going for a walk at night and it was just silent and the only light was from the moon and stars. Nearest neighbor was around a mile away so there was a lot of space. The only thing I didn't like about it is that the landscape was completely flat.
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I grew up and live in the sticks, the kind of rural place where I don't even know where the keys to my front door are and you leave the car running when you run into a shop so the defroster warms up.
I've had family and friends from rougher areas come over, and it's amazing how uncomfortable they are in the dark and silent countryside... It's like they freak out because it's too quiet, waiting for the next siren. So, now instead of worrying about being mugged or shot, they think of 'cabin in the woods' Manson crime or something.
I couldn't live with that level of stress.
That sounds lovely. Years ago I visited a place called Barrhead in central Alberta and it was a lot like that. I remember going for a walk at night and it was just silent and the only light was from the moon and stars. Nearest neighbor was around a mile away so there was a lot of space. The only thing I didn't like about it is that the landscape was completely flat.
Every year we go on a big several week family road trip to several smaller towns around the state. Even when it's a big town the feel is much different to Sydney. The people are different and more laid back, and you feel safer (not that you don't in Sydney).
Last month I was in Old Bar, a small beach side town and I was in a shop and heard a police siren which seemed very odd. I asked the shop keeper how often that happens and she said she'd never heard one before in the 3 years she's worked there. The town doesn't even have a police station.
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Thats probably something that they tell the tourists so that they don't get scared and take their business elsewhere.
I'm sure the crime rate is very high as it is everywhere else. In small towns like that you don't get serious crime but you do get a lot of harassment and bullying.
Next time you are there ask them if they are depressed. If they are then they are being harassed and bullied.
Why would you assume the crime rate is very high? It's really not in a lot of places. Sure there are bullies everywhere but there are absolutely places where you have a very low risk of getting mugged, shot, raped, burglarized, etc. Most small towns you're not going to hear police sirens very often. Heck my small town has turned into a city and it's not often I hear a police siren here. When I'm in downtown Seattle I hear them all the time.
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A person in a good area has to give like 10 reassurances of what hood shit you don't need to worry about while at their house (anti crack head protocols, gang avoidance, so forth). And when rich people go where the poor are its like a war reporter. You are totally delusional if you don't think that's real.
I grew up and live in the sticks, the kind of rural place where I don't even know where the keys to my front door are and you leave the car running when you run into a shop so the defroster warms up.
I've had family and friends from rougher areas come over, and it's amazing how uncomfortable they are in the dark and silent countryside... It's like they freak out because it's too quiet, waiting for the next siren. So, now instead of worrying about being mugged or shot, they think of 'cabin in the woods' Manson crime or something.
I couldn't live with that level of stress.
Crime has to do with how invisible you are. When a car starts driving through such areas, and outsiders show up, its remembered. Criminals don't really get too far, and their not as invisible as they think in those kinds of places, their boring, and people are not super distracted all the time, so they notice problems and they can also remember who/what/where/when/why, making police investigations more effective. Like if you see a out of town car in such an area, its downright interesting. If you see something in the crowded city it just gets washed out. + you need alot of fuel, that means stops, and the bored out of their mind gas station people also find it interesting. Not to mention if you screw up a crime in that kind of area, you are out alot of time, money. In the city you can try right next door and probobly be successful.
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I asked the shop keeper how often that happens and she said she'd never heard one before in the 3 years she's worked there. The town doesn't even have a police station.
Thats probably something that they tell the tourists so that they don't get scared and take their business elsewhere.
Nope, shopkeeper was a young girl. Answer was genuine.
I'm sure the crime rate is very high as it is everywhere else. In small towns like that you don't get serious crime but you do get a lot of harassment and bullying.
Next time you are there ask them if they are depressed. If they are then they are being harassed and bullied.
Nope, go to Old Bar or any small beachside town like this, they are all the same laid back nothing ever happens kind of places.
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Fran has put up a Gofundme for health insurance costs.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/get-fran-healthcare-for-2023 (https://www.gofundme.com/f/get-fran-healthcare-for-2023)
I didn't see that one coming, I forgot how rooted the health care system is in the US, and I didn't know that if you change address you can't keep your health insurance, WTF.
Another reason she desperately needs to save cash (or possibly move state?). $15k a year just for health insurance is obviously completely unsustainable, she'll have to do this gofundme every year for the rest of her life. And that doesn't leave any contingency for getting evicted again or income dropping.
As a reference here, we choose to pay $400/month for a family of 4 for private health insurance. But of course we get free-ish (1.5% of our income) universal health care on top of that, so we don't actually need it. Private insurance is just nice to have.
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My health insurance has always been tied to my employer, not to my home address. Either way the US healthcare system is a byzantine disaster that costs far more than any other system in the world.
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$15,000 sounds like a lot for health insurance, but she doesn't specify how many years that will buy.
The US healthcare system is the biggest reason I decided not to emigrate there when I had the opportunity. It's possible if you're rich enough to buy your way into decent healthcare, but even then there are so many gotchas about insurance that it seems easy to fall into one of the many traps.
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For a person her age, $15k is probably for a year of coverage.
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$15,000 sounds like a lot for health insurance, but she doesn't specify how many years that will buy.
She does, it's just for 2023.
If I were to independently purchase the same intermediate level plan that I had through the ACA and used for over 8 years previous it would cost me $1,100 - $1,300 per month plus stack on a lot of high deductibles on top of that, so I have been doing without insurance and going out of pocket for medical expenses since March 2022.
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$15,000 sounds like a lot for health insurance, but she doesn't specify how many years that will buy.
She does, it's just for 2023.
Ouch!
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Holy cow, it really doesn't pay to get old in the US does it!
The NHS has its critics but it's never let any of my family down when it really counted. The other stuff, I can live with.
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The US healthcare system is the biggest reason I decided not to emigrate there when I had the opportunity..
But imagine how much you'd save on Digikey shipping if you had moved ! >:D
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Most of the faults with the NHS and similar systems could be solved by spending more money on it. AFAIK we already spend more than twice as much *per capita* on healthcare as the next highest which is Canada and yet we have large numbers of people without insurance at all. It's easily the largest and most glaring fault with the USA.
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Pay extra for rent to live in safe area.
Skip health insurance to afford rent.
=
Skip health insurance for safety.
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Pay extra for rent to live in safe area of unsafe city.
Skip health insurance to afford rent.
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Skip health insurance for safety.
I added some extra detail.
I just don't get it. You can't just keep up the massive expenses and keep on relying on Patreon and Gofundme, this ultimate isn't going to work, the wheels will fall off the billy cart, guaranteed.
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Most of the faults with the NHS and similar systems could be solved by spending more money on it
Or spend less money by getting rid of the bureaucrats and pointless mangers,during my brief time working for the nhs the maintenance department was around 30 people,only 12 of them carried out any maintenance.
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Pay extra for rent to live in safe area.
Skip health insurance to afford rent.
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Skip health insurance for safety.
I am not sure i understand how these two are related. Steve Jobs lived in a nice neighbourhood and still died of cancer.
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Pay extra for rent to live in safe area.
Skip health insurance to afford rent.
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Skip health insurance for safety.
I am not sure i understand how these two are related. Steve Jobs lived in a nice neighbourhood and still died of cancer.
I think it means she prioritised living the lifestyle she wanted at the expense of health insurance.
Sounds like something has recently changed medically and she fears she will need the insurance this year. I hope she's ok.
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Pay extra for rent to live in safe area.
Skip health insurance to afford rent.
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Skip health insurance for safety.
I am not sure i understand how these two are related. Steve Jobs lived in a nice neighbourhood and still died of cancer.
I think it means she prioritised living the lifestyle she wanted at the expense of health insurance.
Sounds like something has recently changed medically and she fears she will need the insurance this year. I hope she's ok.
Possibly. Unfortunately, someone who hasn't paid health insurance for years, is over 50 and suddenly takes an insurance contract - insurance companies probably can smell this from miles away and make you pay for it.
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As a reference here, we choose to pay $400/month for a family of 4 for private health insurance. But of course we get free-ish (1.5% of our income) universal health care on top of that, so we don't actually need it. Private insurance is just nice to have.
I am for some reason sure that you Do actually need it. Private insurance covers many things that vanila universal health care does not.
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Some does. My mother has been self employed for many years and for a few years she had health insurance that found ways to weasel out of covering absolutely anything at all over a 2 year period. Once she realized this she dropped them and found something else. Health insurance in the USA is garbage. It is incredibly complex and expensive, with massive amounts of overhead.
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She does, it's just for 2023.
That's absolutely mental. I thought that the $1,100 ~ $1,300 per month was the cost of the non-ideal plan, not the option she was going to take. Not to get too much into politics but WTF America?
I've worked out the cost of the NHS as a proportion of my paycheque as a high earner, it's about 8% of my salary. Well under half that figure. OK I'm a younger individual so possibly the same cost would apply in the US but that is fixed for the rest of my life no matter how much I earn.
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We need insurance insurance. Insurance against insurance companies that tell you they'll cover everything and then cover nothing.
The insurance insurance company will check the insurance contract and negotiate on your behalf before you agree to pay and then when you make a claim and they try to weasel out of it, they will hold the insurance company accountable.
The end result will be more lawyers and bureaucrats making more money. Definitely something humanity needs more of.
[/sarcasm]
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That's absolutely mental. I thought that the $1,100 ~ $1,300 per month was the cost of the non-ideal plan, not the option she was going to take. Not to get too much into politics but WTF America?
When I was in my late 20s with no health issues and was between jobs, it would have cost me around $600/month for coverage so at the time I went without. It only gets worse as you age.
We could save a load of money with a single payer system that eliminates all of the overhead of all these for-profit insurance companies. I read somewhere about someone fretting over the loss of jobs that would occur if the health insurance industry went away. They joked that we could just pay them to stroll through hospitals randomly killing patients and it would accomplish the same thing and probably be cheaper.
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She does, it's just for 2023.
That's absolutely mental. I thought that the $1,100 ~ $1,300 per month was the cost of the non-ideal plan, not the option she was going to take. Not to get too much into politics but WTF America?
Absolutely normal there, all my US friends say the same thing. Most get cover through their employer though, either as part of their package or a reduced company bulk rate or some such. Once you leave your job that ends. All the self employed US people I know say that insurance is brutal. And you have to have it because you have no universal health care. Here in Australia you have private health insurance as a niceity so if you have a long extended stay in hospital you can go to a nice private hospital with your own room instead of in the free public hospital.
My mum had lots of hospital stays in her final years, cost her nothing as a pensioner and she didn't have private cover and still got world class care.
I've worked out the cost of the NHS as a proportion of my paycheque as a high earner, it's about 8% of my salary.
Australia is 2% of your income if you have minimum private health insurance, otherwise there is an extra surcharge up to 1.5% extra based on your income bracket:
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-and-private-health-insurance/Medicare-levy-surcharge/Medicare-levy-surcharge-income,-thresholds-and-rates/ (https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-and-private-health-insurance/Medicare-levy-surcharge/Medicare-levy-surcharge-income,-thresholds-and-rates/)
https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-and-private-health-insurance/Medicare-levy/What-is-the-medicare-levy-/ (https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-and-private-health-insurance/Medicare-levy/What-is-the-medicare-levy-/)
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We need insurance insurance. Insurance against insurance companies that tell you they'll cover everything and then cover nothing.
It's called savings. Smart people put aside some cash each month to go toward emergency expenses like health. Have a different bank account if you need the discipline of not touching it.
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But you usually have to have some kind of real job in order to save money.
What a lot of people don't realize is that in the US you can go to any ER (A&E) get treatment and ignore the bill. Wash rinse & repeat. A lot if illegals and poor folks use this method.
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We need insurance insurance. Insurance against insurance companies that tell you they'll cover everything and then cover nothing.
It's called savings. Smart people put aside some cash each month to go toward emergency expenses like health. Have a different bank account if you need the discipline of not touching it.
Just one savings account? I prefer to diversify. One more reason I like home ownership, it's like a big piggy bank, can dump time and money into it and hopefully it all turns into savings.
Also creates some opportunities to play with interest rates. Some of my savings are now paying 2.5x as much as my mortgage is costing! Bank is essentially paying me to lend them money that I borrowed from them! Strange times.
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We need insurance insurance. Insurance against insurance companies that tell you they'll cover everything and then cover nothing.
It's called savings. Smart people put aside some cash each month to go toward emergency expenses like health. Have a different bank account if you need the discipline of not touching it.
It sounds good at a glance, but if you have the misfortune of developing some form of cancer you can easily be hit with medical bills for a million dollars or more. Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA. I love my country overall, there are many things I think we get right, but health care is not one of those things. It is one of just a few areas where I strongly disagree with the conservatives, I think at least catastrophic health care for all citizens is fundamental right that any developed society is obligated to handle. Employer provided health insurance is a massive job killing tax on corporations that discourages hiring, and even more so, discourages entrepreneurship because most people are better off sticking with a corporate job they hate. The kicker is WE ALREADY PAY for all the people that can't pay because hospital emergency rooms can't refuse care. It results in a lot of people that can't afford healthcare using emergency rooms which are the most expensive option, because it's the one that allows them to saddle the cost on everyone else. I don't want "free" healthcare, I know somebody has to pay for it, but get rid of all the middlemen, get rid of the for-profit insurance industry completely, then we all pay into a pool that covers everyone. It will result in billions of dollars saved.
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It's called savings. Smart people put aside some cash each month to go toward emergency expenses like health. Have a different bank account if you need the discipline of not touching it.
Just one savings account? I prefer to diversify. One more reason I like home ownership, it's like a big piggy bank, can dump time and money into it and hopefully it all turns into savings.
Yes, I've mentioned this in videos, "being your own bank".
However you chose to save is open to debate, but the simple answer is to save any way you can.
If you live a lifestyle lifestyle like Fran that is hand to mouth with little savings then you have no buffer, and you are at hte total mercy of income sources (Patreon/Youtube only in her case) and chance (illness, eviction, etc).
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It's called savings. Smart people put aside some cash each month to go toward emergency expenses like health. Have a different bank account if you need the discipline of not touching it.
It sounds good at a glance, but if you have the misfortune of developing some form of cancer you can easily be hit with medical bills for a million dollars or more. Medical expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the USA. I love my country overall, there are many things I think we get right, but health care is not one of those things.
Thinking of worst case examples like that and thinking it essentially "futile" to save is crazy. You can want changes in the system all you want, but ultimately you have to live in the world you have (or move to somewhere more favourable).
Live within your means, save, have contingencies like multiple sources of incomes (or the potential for them), and be willing to pivot if circumstances change.
The more precarious your situation the more you need to have a plan here.
In Australia it's not unheard of for someone to declare bankrupcy due to medical expenses, but it's rare. Last quarter there were 1427 bankruptcies in Australia:
https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/quarterly-personal-insolvency-statistics (https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/quarterly-personal-insolvency-statistics)
About 10% of those are due to medical expenses.
https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/changes-afsa-statistics (https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/changes-afsa-statistics)
https://www.gofundme.com/en-au/c/blog/medical-bankruptcy (https://www.gofundme.com/en-au/c/blog/medical-bankruptcy)
So here we are talking maybe 500 people a year in the whole country. But no one gets denied life saving treatment under the medicare system, regardless of circumstance.
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In Australia it's not unheard of for someone to declare bankrupcy due to medical expenses, but it's rare. Last quarter there were 1427 bankruptcies in Australia:
https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/quarterly-personal-insolvency-statistics (https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/quarterly-personal-insolvency-statistics)
About 10% of those are due to medical expenses.
https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/changes-afsa-statistics (https://www.afsa.gov.au/about-us/statistics/changes-afsa-statistics)
https://www.gofundme.com/en-au/c/blog/medical-bankruptcy (https://www.gofundme.com/en-au/c/blog/medical-bankruptcy)
So here we are talking maybe 500 people a year in the whole country. But no one gets denied life saving treatment under the medicare system, regardless of circumstance.
As an example, for my ACL knee replacement for example, I could have waited many months and got it done in a public hospital for free.
But I chose to pay the full cost of $5000 to get it done by one of the world's best kneee surgeons I hand picked, and I got about half that back under medicare. Tthere is a set rebate cost for each type of procedure, and if you chose to have it done in a private hospital then you have to pay the difference.
I've been told the same ACL operation in the US is at least $20k, and this seems confirm that:
https://health.costhelper.com/acl-reconstruction.html (https://health.costhelper.com/acl-reconstruction.html)
But even if you have private health cover in the US you still pay about the same I paid here. Crazy.
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Thinking of worst case examples like that and thinking it essentially "futile" to save is crazy. You can want changes in the system all you want, but ultimately you have to live in the world you have (or move to somewhere more favourable).
Live within your means, save, have contingencies like multiple sources of incomes (or the potential for them), and be willing to pivot if circumstances change.
That's not really what I meant. Saving money and having an emergency fund is absolutely a wise idea, I only meant that it is not a substitute for health insurance, even a modest procedure can easily wipe out a savings account if you are not insured.
Obviously also there is no perfect place to live, everywhere has advantages and disadvantages, but I am still annoyed that the country I live in gets so many things right and then totally drops the ball with this. If we had a functional national health insurance system that would take care of the only really major gripe I have, everything else I can deal with. Unfortunately the only people really willing to fix the healthcare situation are also totally nuts, and I know from experience that if they do ever have the chance to revamp the system they will find a way to screw it up horribly instead of copying what works from elsewhere.
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Thinking of worst case examples like that and thinking it essentially "futile" to save is crazy. You can want changes in the system all you want, but ultimately you have to live in the world you have (or move to somewhere more favourable).
Live within your means, save, have contingencies like multiple sources of incomes (or the potential for them), and be willing to pivot if circumstances change.
That's not really what I meant. Saving money and having an emergency fund is absolutely a wise idea, I only meant that it is not a substitute for health insurance, even a modest procedure can easily wipe out a savings account if you are not insured.
Totally, especially if you are in a country like the US that has no universal health care.
As I mentioned, we choose to have private health insurance "just in case" of long term issues. Here it's called "basic private hospital cover", and I'd recommend everyone have that as a minimum.
It actually used to be really cheap here, like 50/month or something and it was actually cheaper than paying the medicare levy for not having any basic private cover.
So pretty much only but the really poor here wouldn't have basic private cover.
Almost 5M aussies have private health, but even then the majority would just go to a public hospital and get free care if something goes wrong.
https://www.apra.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-11/Quarterly%20private%20health%20insurance%20statistics%20Highlights%20September%202022.pdf (https://www.apra.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-11/Quarterly%20private%20health%20insurance%20statistics%20Highlights%20September%202022.pdf)
Ironically private health insurance doesn't help us if we chose to go to the emergency department at the local private hospital. We've been there several times with the kids breaking things and we pay a real preimum for that instead of going to the public hospital and waiting and getting the work experience surgeon. So that cost comes out of our savings.
If we had an issue that put us in the hospital for weeks or months then that's when the private cover really kicks in.
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We need insurance insurance. Insurance against insurance companies that tell you they'll cover everything and then cover nothing.
It's called savings. Smart people put aside some cash each month to go toward emergency expenses like health. Have a different bank account if you need the discipline of not touching it.
My bill was US$750K and follow up care (monthly) was US$1.5K.
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What a lot of people don't realize is that in the US you can go to any ER (A&E) get treatment and ignore the bill. Wash rinse & repeat. A lot if illegals and poor folks use this method.
I thought that was only true for life sustaining care. So if you get dragged into the hospital in cardiac arrest they'll try to get you going again. But if you need a heart transplant to live a normal life after that, good luck with that.
Given cancer is one of the biggest killers in most of the western world that's one thing I'd really want a hospital to deal with. I doubt chemo is included in 'free emergency care'.
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That's not really what I meant. Saving money and having an emergency fund is absolutely a wise idea, I only meant that it is not a substitute for health insurance, even a modest procedure can easily wipe out a savings account if you are not insured.
Obviously also there is no perfect place to live, everywhere has advantages and disadvantages, but I am still annoyed that the country I live in gets so many things right and then totally drops the ball with this. If we had a functional national health insurance system that would take care of the only really major gripe I have, everything else I can deal with. Unfortunately the only people really willing to fix the healthcare situation are also totally nuts, and I know from experience that if they do ever have the chance to revamp the system they will find a way to screw it up horribly instead of copying what works from elsewhere.
Something that the more liberal wing of politicians neglect to mention is that people tend to spend as much money on rent or housing as they are comfortable spending. So for instance they might spend up to 40-50% of their take home on rent to live in a good area. So the politicians go, "We need better wages and lower rent!" Well you can't have both, because rents will track wages, as will house prices, if you pay say $30 an hour to work in a Starbucks then all of the apartments nearby will be more expensive. And neither can you impose a restriction on rents because you haven't solved the fundamental problem of excessive demand, now you've just created a waiting list for housing.
And no politician wants to go and say, "Well maybe you shouldn't rent that $1,500 apartment but get that $900 one in that sketchy area" because their constituent is above thinking they are anything other than one to live in the nice part of town, with all the nice shops and parks that they want to live near.
Perhaps the only way to deal this is to literally enshrine in law "you can only spend 33% of your take home on rent" - that would limit rental inflation but create all sorts of headaches for housemates living together, people with erratic income or the self employed, and there would no doubt still be corruption.
Longer term better public transport makes cities more livable so the practical area of a commute becomes larger, as well as arrangements like working from home for jobs that can accommodate that.
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And no politician wants to go and say, "Well maybe you shouldn't rent that $1,500 apartment but get that $900 one in that sketchy area" because their constituent is above thinking they are anything other than one to live in the nice part of town, with all the nice shops and parks that they want to live near.
Perhaps the only way to deal this is to literally enshrine in law "you can only spend 33% of your take home on rent" - that would limit rental inflation but create all sorts of headaches for housemates living together, people with erratic income or the self employed, and there would no doubt still be corruption.
Longer term better public transport makes cities more livable so the practical area of a commute becomes larger, as well as arrangements like working from home for jobs that can accommodate that.
Rent is for suckers. I saved every penny I could and bought a house when I was 25, it was a LOT more than 33% of my income at the time but it was the best decision I ever made, if I hadn't done that I'd have to have moved off into the boonies a long time ago. I cannot even fathom why someone would be content to rent any longer than they had to. It is absolutely moronic from a financial standpoint. When you buy you can eventually have it paid off which I intend to do in a year or so, then I'll own my house free and clear and no more payments, only taxes.
I do hope working from home remains common, it would allow me to move out into a rural area where I can have 10-15 acres all to myself. I would love to never have to set foot in a city again, I struggle to understand how some people can even exist in such a crowded hellscape. Urban environments are horrible, it's stressful just thinking about the crowds and the claustrophobic tall buildings.
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Even if you are freehold a larger property is like taking on debt again due to the ongoing upkeep it requires. Those urban and/or renting never see the other side of larger property ownership.
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And no politician wants to go and say, "Well maybe you shouldn't rent that $1,500 apartment but get that $900 one in that sketchy area" because their constituent is above thinking they are anything other than one to live in the nice part of town, with all the nice shops and parks that they want to live near.
Perhaps the only way to deal this is to literally enshrine in law "you can only spend 33% of your take home on rent" - that would limit rental inflation but create all sorts of headaches for housemates living together, people with erratic income or the self employed, and there would no doubt still be corruption.
Longer term better public transport makes cities more livable so the practical area of a commute becomes larger, as well as arrangements like working from home for jobs that can accommodate that.
Rent is for suckers. I saved every penny I could and bought a house when I was 25, it was a LOT more than 33% of my income at the time but it was the best decision I ever made, if I hadn't done that I'd have to have moved off into the boonies a long time ago. I cannot even fathom why someone would be content to rent any longer than they had to. It is absolutely moronic from a financial standpoint. When you buy you can eventually have it paid off which I intend to do in a year or so, then I'll own my house free and clear and no more payments, only taxes.
Well the problem is that the cheapest home you can buy anywhere in the south of England for instance would be around £200,000. That is, in terms of a house that you could live in. It would not be big and would probably be in a rough area, but it's a place to live.
To buy that you would need a min. downpayment of £10,000 (if you have excellent credit score to get a 95% mortgage) plus around another £5,000 for solicitors and other costs. So say £15k plus you really should have an emergency fund on top of that. And you need an income of at least £44k at the maximum loan to salary ratio of 4.5x, but most banks like 4x, so assume £50k (~$60k).
So the 'cheap' house now requires a salary almost twice as high as the median income in this country (~£33k). A job a lot of people cannot expect to achieve as it requires skills they don't have and probably never will. The ironic thing is, the mortgage over 30 years would probably cost about the same as the rent, but it's not available without meeting the downpayment or loan to salary calculations. You can add cash to the purchase of the house, which is how a lot of people on lower incomes buy homes (usually inherited or given to them by parents) but if you're not lucky enough to have that, tough.
People get trapped renting. It's very easy to end up in this situation. I'm sure similar calculations apply for the US. Just think about an example $20/hour worker and think what kind of home they could buy on that wage, even if they were very frugal. OK, engineers on top salaries are doing fine but a society is going to struggle when some of the most essential workers are struggling to pay the rent and have nowhere to call home.
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Even if you are freehold a larger property is like taking on debt again due to the ongoing upkeep it requires. Those urban and/or renting never see the other side of larger property ownership.
A "large" property can be as little as a 1/4 acre block (1000sqm), enough for a house and a big arse workshop, even 2000qsft that Fran needs.
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Rent is for suckers.
It lost me maybe $400k
Or more correctly, the decision not to buy a bigger place cost me $400k.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Mh7LFpso (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84-Mh7LFpso)
Seemed like a good idea at the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JQQMpXp_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JQQMpXp_s)
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Perhaps the only way to deal this is to literally enshrine in law "you can only spend 33% of your take home on rent" - that would limit rental inflation but create all sorts of headaches for housemates living together, people with erratic income or the self employed, and there would no doubt still be corruption.
Ultimately though everyone needs to be personally responsible for making sensible life choices based on their own circumstances.
I want punch the TV every time I hear someone say they can't afford a house in Sydney because the median price is X. Well, be realistic and buy below the median |O
Not everyone can live next to their favourite cafe.
Longer term better public transport makes cities more livable so the practical area of a commute becomes larger, as well as arrangements like working from home for jobs that can accommodate that.
Bringing it back to Fran, this seems like a no-brainer. Live <1hr commute from San Fran so you can go in every weekend and enjoy the lifestyle. Don't let fear or desire drive your realistic fiscally responsible choice.
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Rent is for suckers. I saved every penny I could and bought a house when I was 25, it was a LOT more than 33% of my income at the time but it was the best decision I ever made, if I hadn't done that I'd have to have moved off into the boonies a long time ago. I cannot even fathom why someone would be content to rent any longer than they had to. It is absolutely moronic from a financial standpoint.
But it's the easy thing to do. Serious saving requires discipline, sacrifice, and long term thinking. It's just so easy to spend X% of your wage on rent and a lifestyle. And you might save a little, but otherwise don't build up much. Next thing you know it's 10 years later and you are stuck because the housing market boomed.
In Fran's case it seems like the she wanted to buy a place at one point but ultimately gave up because of the difficulty getting a loan being self employed. That's when you really need to knuckle down and find a way, making radical lifestyle changes if needed.
I'm absolutely sure there could have been some way she could have turned that original $45k gofundme into a property of her own.
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Well the problem is that the cheapest home you can buy anywhere in the south of England for instance would be around £200,000. That is, in terms of a house that you could live in. It would not be big and would probably be in a rough area, but it's a place to live.
To buy that you would need a min. downpayment of £10,000 (if you have excellent credit score to get a 95% mortgage) plus around another £5,000 for solicitors and other costs. So say £15k plus you really should have an emergency fund on top of that. And you need an income of at least £44k at the maximum loan to salary ratio of 4.5x, but most banks like 4x, so assume £50k (~$60k).
So the 'cheap' house now requires a salary almost twice as high as the median income in this country (~£33k). A job a lot of people cannot expect to achieve as it requires skills they don't have and probably never will. The ironic thing is, the mortgage over 30 years would probably cost about the same as the rent, but it's not available without meeting the downpayment or loan to salary calculations. You can add cash to the purchase of the house, which is how a lot of people on lower incomes buy homes (usually inherited or given to them by parents) but if you're not lucky enough to have that, tough.
People get trapped renting. It's very easy to end up in this situation. I'm sure similar calculations apply for the US. Just think about an example $20/hour worker and think what kind of home they could buy on that wage, even if they were very frugal. OK, engineers on top salaries are doing fine but a society is going to struggle when some of the most essential workers are struggling to pay the rent and have nowhere to call home.
That's a bargain compared to renting, any way you slice it, renting costs more in the long run, usually a LOT more and when you move out you have nothing. My house cost me ~90% of my income when I bought it, I had two roommates for several years to make ends meet. It is faulty logic to look at renting a place on one's own, get roommates, find a second job, do whatever it takes, it will be harder in the short term but much easier and better in the long term. The problem is that people want instant gratification, they have rigid requirements that they insist be met NOW, whereas I was always looking ~10 years out. I chose to sacrifice in my 20s so that I'd be comfortable in my 30s and beyond.
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Even if you are freehold a larger property is like taking on debt again due to the ongoing upkeep it requires. Those urban and/or renting never see the other side of larger property ownership.
You don't have to do upkeep on the whole property. Loads of people have rural acreage and leave much of it to nature. I don't need a massive manicured lawn, a field and trees is fine with me.
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That's a bargain compared to renting, any way you slice it, renting costs more in the long run, usually a LOT more and when you move out you have nothing. My house cost me ~90% of my income when I bought it, I had two roommates for several years to make ends meet. It is faulty logic to look at renting a place on one's own, get roommates, find a second job, do whatever it takes, it will be harder in the short term but much easier and better in the long term. The problem is that people want instant gratification, they have rigid requirements that they insist be met NOW, whereas I was always looking ~10 years out. I chose to sacrifice in my 20s so that I'd be comfortable in my 30s and beyond.
The problem is it doesn't matter how much you want it, if you have £1,000 a month rent and a £1,800 a month paycheque (after tax figure) -- which is very typical for an average earner in this country -- you are never going to be able to save up enough to qualify for a mortgage on anything remotely worth living in.
You basically end up racing the clock as your income needs to grow larger to qualify for a shorter term mortgage. I know someone who managed to beat this and buy a house aged 45 after losing his first home to business failure but he had to put something like £60k down which isn't trivial at all.
I think it's very easy to say "just earn more" but if you have limited skills your earning potential is... limited. Longer term this has other implications too, the rise of AI, self driving vehicles etc completely changes the job market for many.
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The problem is it doesn't matter how much you want it, if you have £1,000 a month rent and a £1,800 a month paycheque (after tax figure) -- which is very typical for an average earner in this country -- you are never going to be able to save up enough to qualify for a mortgage on any remotely worth living in.
Get a roommate, get two roommates, get 5 roommates, rent out the whole house and couch surf, live with your parents, live in the garage, or live in a tent in the back yard if you have to. There are solutions to this, it is doable. I took in two roommates, I bought a bread machine at a thrift store and lived for a couple years mostly off of tuna sandwiches on basic white bread I made in the bread machine and fruit that was in season and on sale. For several years I was budgeting under $5 a day on food. Obviously now those numbers are going to be higher, but not THAT much higher, I could eat comfortably on $10/day pretty easily.
If people spent as much effort on actually earning more or spending less as they do coming up with excuses for why they can't do it they wouldn't need the excuses.
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... I could eat comfortably on $10/day pretty easily.
It is getting harder due to rising prices, but our weekly supermarket bill now varies between 70 - 100 euros for healthy foods including plenty of fruits and nuts (walnuts, almonds and cashew) which are expensive. We eat home cooked every day.
You can do cheaper if you buy crap food like potato chips, but that hurts your health in the long run.
Most important is to manage your money properly. Don't go and buy a Mercedes if you can't afford it. Or like the saying "champagne taste on a bear income" will ensure trouble.
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If people spent as much effort on actually earning more...
I think you are lacking empathy. Not everyone has your drive, your ambition, your goals, your ranking of hardships, your desires. And quite a few may even pretty close to your ideal but nevertheless be derailed by circumstances.
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It's definitely easier to eat healthier when you have more time, though. If your earnings only come in because you work long hours, live far away from where you work (consequentially having a long commute) and then add in the stress of doing all of this, then you easily get a vicious cycle where cheap crap food just makes some problems go away for a bit.
Of course personal responsibility is a factor (I think we've been there on other threads) but humans definitely aren't perfect and I can't blame people for not wanting to sacrifice everything to get the house. Not that it should be easy, but someone working average hours (37hrs/week) at a median wage should be able to afford to buy a home, this was definitely possible 20-30 years ago, but it's rapidly becoming impossible across most of the western world.
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It's definitely easier to eat healthier when you have more time, though. If your earnings only come in because you work long hours, live far away from where you work (consequentially having a long commute) and then add in the stress of doing all of this, then you easily get a vicious cycle where cheap crap food just makes some problems go away for a bit.
Yes that is certainly true and I have been there myself, when I was young and starting out in the working world.
Of course personal responsibility is a factor (I think we've been there on other threads) but humans definitely aren't perfect and I can't blame people for not wanting to sacrifice everything to get the house. Not that it should be easy, but someone working average hours (37hrs/week) at a median wage should be able to afford to buy a home, this was definitely possible 20-30 years ago, but it's rapidly becoming impossible across most of the western world.
As long as you are happy with choices made, it does not matter, renting or buying. One thing is for sure, when you own a house and you die, it is the ones you leave behind that benefit from it. You can't eat stones >:D
But with the increasing cost of everything, including houses, (even though they are stabilizing and maybe even declining again in the Netherlands) it might not bring you much if you sell and start renting for your last years on the planet.
It is true that the prices of houses have gone up way quicker then salaries, and that makes it harder for youngsters to step on the house owners ladder. But it is what lots of people my age benefited from, stepping up the ladder. We earned nicely on our first house, lost a bit on the second and are now in our third, with only cost of insurance, taxes and some upkeep.
Worked hard, made good decisions, and had some luck, and then I got ill. You never know what the future brings. :palm:
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If people spent as much effort on actually earning more...
I think you are lacking empathy. Not everyone has your drive, your ambition, your goals, your ranking of hardships, your desires. And quite a few may even pretty close to your ideal but nevertheless be derailed by circumstances.
Citing this view of reality might be lacking in empathy, but it doesn't make the view of reality incorrect.
If people are happy enough with their own drive, ambition, goals, ranking of hardships, and desires and the outcomes that those result in, there's no problem at all. I'm glad they're happy. If they're not happy, I'd urge them to change something.
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Don't fall victim to the get rich quick scams either.
Do you remember the guy "I lived alone in a one bedroom apartment and sold tiny little classified ads in newspapers across the country and made millions of dollars!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Lapre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Lapre)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9uFEUCqCI0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9uFEUCqCI0)
There are a lot of similarites here to certain people we know all ending in eventual disaster.
Go Fund Me, Patreon?
There is no such thing as "get rich quick".
There is only careful planning, work hard & save, inheritance, lawsuit, the former stock market, boy toy to Liberace, Phyllis Diller (insert the current undesirable's name here), bloated corpse house cleanup (and you're the new guy).
Listed in order of more careful planning to less^
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Even if you are freehold a larger property is like taking on debt again due to the ongoing upkeep it requires. Those urban and/or renting never see the other side of larger property ownership.
You don't have to do upkeep on the whole property. Loads of people have rural acreage and leave much of it to nature. I don't need a massive manicured lawn, a field and trees is fine with me.
That might work for your climate however in those that have high spring growth and then dry off in summer an untended property becomes a huge fire risk to others nearby.
Here in NZ holdings over a Hectare or 2 require livestock to keep the grass under control which require tending to, fences to retain them and handling/trucking facilities.
It's not unusual for some to relocate into a rural paradise only to retreat to a urban environment after getting a taste of the work a rural property requires.
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Citing this view of reality might be lacking in empathy, but it doesn't make the view of reality incorrect.
If people are happy enough with their own drive, ambition, goals, ranking of hardships, and desires and the outcomes that those result in, there's no problem at all. I'm glad they're happy. If they're not happy, I'd urge them to change something.
Perhaps the reality of the situation can be accepted whilst also not accepting it as something unchangeable? It is certainly possible to make society fairer.
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Things are getting harder. Central bankers and economists keep telling people to limit raises and warning about a wage price spiral even though we are far from it with wages not even keeping up with inflation. They make it sound like we'll have a catastrophy if workers don't get a relative pay cut every year.
On the other hand we've got people demanding a house, family and pets near the beach in the few areas that cost much more than everywhere else. They want it on 1 income from a job that takes 1 day to learn. It's like joy riding in a hummer, while demanding the taxpayers subsidise the cost of gas because it's unfair how much they choose to spend on gas.
They could move to a more affordable area.
They won't only solve their problem, they'll also help others in similar situations by reducing the demand where there is excess demand.
They don't want to help others though, they won't even help themselves, they want the taxpayers to fix it. If taxpayers don't like that, it's up to them to push back, to help people see there are other options. Even if it means getting accussed of lacking empathy.
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That might work for your climate however in those that have high spring growth and then dry off in summer an untended property becomes a huge fire risk to others nearby.
Here in NZ holdings over a Hectare or 2 require livestock to keep the grass under control which require tending to, fences to retain them and handling/trucking facilities.
It's not unusual for some to relocate into a rural paradise only to retreat to a urban environment after getting a taste of the work a rural property requires.
That's not really an issue here. The land was doing just fine before humans arrived on the scene and there are lots of natural areas around the state that are not actively maintained. If there's a grass field it is helpful to mow it now and then, the forests largely take care of themselves. I grew up in a rural area that got overrun by people fleeing California and other areas so it's what I'm familiar with, I'm not a city person, the city came to me and I hate it.
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I think you are lacking empathy. Not everyone has your drive, your ambition, your goals, your ranking of hardships, your desires. And quite a few may even pretty close to your ideal but nevertheless be derailed by circumstances.
Empathy is not really my strength, but I simply don't think I am all that exceptional and I did it, so I think if I can do it anyone can do it, if they make it a priority. I grew up in a low income household right alongside a lot of friends and acquaintances in similar and in many cases better circumstances and I watched so many of them piss away money on all manner of stuff they "needed" which I was able to get by without. They bought nice cars, new furniture, ate out often at restaurants, went drinking in bars, ran up their credit cards, etc. I have multiple friends that have consistently earned twice what I do and yet they're always broke because they are careless with money and fail to prioritize. I've seen people make excuses after excuses for the results of their poor life choices. It's not like this is some hypothetical situation, it's based on my own observations of those around me. Far too many people act like Fran, they create a rigid set of requirements and if they can't stay within all of those requirements they give up and start making excuses.
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It's definitely easier to eat healthier when you have more time, though. If your earnings only come in because you work long hours, live far away from where you work (consequentially having a long commute) and then add in the stress of doing all of this, then you easily get a vicious cycle where cheap crap food just makes some problems go away for a bit.
It takes 5 minutes to make a sandwich. Pasta is another quick and easy thing, or whip up a quick stir fry, or a burger, or all manner of other things. Or eat an apple or a banana, they're healthy, inexpensive and require no prep at all. Throw a can of soup on the stove, I recently bought cans of clam chowder on sale for $1.50 each, it stores for a year or more in the pantry, takes 5 minutes to warm on the stove and is an entire meal in a can. There are entire cookbooks full of quick and easy meals. If you buy fruits and vegetables that are in season and meat that is on sale you can save a lot of money. The bread machine I mentioned cost me $10 at the time and making a loaf of fresh bread cost very little and took just a few minutes of my time, the machine did all the work. It is just as quick in many cases to make something to eat at home as it is to eat out and it is so much cheaper. You have to factor in the time spent working to pay for eating out when you calculate the time required. I've known so many people that eat out all the time and flat out insist they can't cook and frankly I think that is ridiculous, you don't have to make a 6 course gourmet meal, there are lots of simple foods that can be prepared as easily as tying one's shoes, food preparation is a basic life skill that everyone needs.
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It's definitely easier to eat healthier when you have more time, though. If your earnings only come in because you work long hours, live far away from where you work (consequentially having a long commute) and then add in the stress of doing all of this, then you easily get a vicious cycle where cheap crap food just makes some problems go away for a bit.
It takes 5 minutes to make a sandwich. Pasta is another quick and easy thing, or whip up a quick stir fry, or a burger, or all manner of other things. Or eat an apple or a banana, they're healthy, inexpensive and require no prep at all. Throw a can of soup on the stove, I recently bought cans of clam chowder on sale for $1.50 each, it stores for a year or more in the pantry, takes 5 minutes to warm on the stove and is an entire meal in a can.
Or just get one of those higher end, low salt microwave meals. Super easy, cheap (compared to buying seperate ingredients) and healthy.
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That's a bargain compared to renting, any way you slice it, renting costs more in the long run, usually a LOT more and when you move out you have nothing. My house cost me ~90% of my income when I bought it, I had two roommates for several years to make ends meet. It is faulty logic to look at renting a place on one's own, get roommates, find a second job, do whatever it takes, it will be harder in the short term but much easier and better in the long term. The problem is that people want instant gratification, they have rigid requirements that they insist be met NOW, whereas I was always looking ~10 years out. I chose to sacrifice in my 20s so that I'd be comfortable in my 30s and beyond.
The problem is it doesn't matter how much you want it, if you have £1,000 a month rent and a £1,800 a month paycheque (after tax figure) -- which is very typical for an average earner in this country -- you are never going to be able to save up enough to qualify for a mortgage on anything remotely worth living in.
You basically end up racing the clock as your income needs to grow larger to qualify for a shorter term mortgage. I know someone who managed to beat this and buy a house aged 45 after losing his first home to business failure but he had to put something like £60k down which isn't trivial at all.
I think it's very easy to say "just earn more" but if you have limited skills your earning potential is... limited. Longer term this has other implications too, the rise of AI, self driving vehicles etc completely changes the job market for many.
Depends on your circumstances. You may have options like to commute further, change jobs, or even move cities, states or even countries if your flexibility allows. Even better if you work from home and are single with no dependents.
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That might work for your climate however in those that have high spring growth and then dry off in summer an untended property becomes a huge fire risk to others nearby.
Here in NZ holdings over a Hectare or 2 require livestock to keep the grass under control which require tending to, fences to retain them and handling/trucking facilities.
It's not unusual for some to relocate into a rural paradise only to retreat to a urban environment after getting a taste of the work a rural property requires.
That's not really an issue here. The land was doing just fine before humans arrived on the scene and there are lots of natural areas around the state that are not actively maintained. If there's a grass field it is helpful to mow it now and then, the forests largely take care of themselves. I grew up in a rural area that got overrun by people fleeing California and other areas so it's what I'm familiar with, I'm not a city person, the city came to me and I hate it.
Understand that but we need not make generalisations.
Every area has its issues and some of West Aussie where my son lives landowners are required to maintain a worked ground strip around the perimeter of their properties as a firebreak. I'm not aware of anywhere here that requires such.
In NZ authorities properly fucked land management in the 60's allowing wholesale subdivision of the small farmlets for a 'perceived' lifestyle need which only removed the surrounding properties option of upsizing to preserve economies of scale and also hastened urban growth swallowing up lots of productive land that was originally small blocks due to its fertility.
Substandard use of the land resource was the end result. ::)
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Citing this view of reality might be lacking in empathy, but it doesn't make the view of reality incorrect.
If people are happy enough with their own drive, ambition, goals, ranking of hardships, and desires and the outcomes that those result in, there's no problem at all. I'm glad they're happy. If they're not happy, I'd urge them to change something.
Perhaps the reality of the situation can be accepted whilst also not accepting it as something unchangeable? It is certainly possible to make society fairer.
Do you mean fairer or more equal, because those are often in opposition?
It seems fair to me that someone with more drive, ambition, and goals would* out-earn someone with less of those things. Enforcing relatively equal outcomes would be reducing fairness IMO.
* - at least on average and all else being equal
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Citing this view of reality might be lacking in empathy, but it doesn't make the view of reality incorrect.
If people are happy enough with their own drive, ambition, goals, ranking of hardships, and desires and the outcomes that those result in, there's no problem at all. I'm glad they're happy. If they're not happy, I'd urge them to change something.
Perhaps the reality of the situation can be accepted whilst also not accepting it as something unchangeable? It is certainly possible to make society fairer.
Do you mean fairer or more equal, because those are often in opposition?
It seems fair to me that someone with more drive, ambition, and goals would* out-earn someone with less of those things. Enforcing relatively equal outcomes would be reducing fairness IMO.
* - at least on average and all else being equal
Fairer. I don't have any opposition to rich people, well, being rich. I do have a problem with those at the lower end doing the hard, necessary work in society struggling by.
I mean in the UK we have stories of nurses, teachers, and social care workers using food banks. We live in a first world country, that should be unacceptable.
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If people spent as much effort on actually earning more...
I think you are lacking empathy. Not everyone has your drive, your ambition, your goals, your ranking of hardships, your desires. And quite a few may even pretty close to your ideal but nevertheless be derailed by circumstances.
Citing this view of reality might be lacking in empathy, but it doesn't make the view of reality incorrect.
If people are happy enough with their own drive, ambition, goals, ranking of hardships, and desires and the outcomes that those result in, there's no problem at all. I'm glad they're happy. If they're not happy, I'd urge them to change something.
Sure. I was railing against the "I'm a success so if anyone else isn't they're pillocks" insinuation of that post. There are many reasons why others aren't a success, not all of them their fault.
As someone notes, 30 years ago you could afford a house without have to wear rags and live in a cave. Anyone starting out then may have considered that they would put off buying a house because they need to move around to work their way up the career ladder, and once they are established they can put down roots. If they'd done that, which would have sounded sensible at that time, they've be royally screwed now. Is that their fault because they didn't have the perfect skillset and 20/20 foresight that james_s often displays? If so, then we are en route to implying that anyone not in the upper realms of IQ are substandard retards who deserve everything bad thing they get.
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Citing this view of reality might be lacking in empathy, but it doesn't make the view of reality incorrect.
If people are happy enough with their own drive, ambition, goals, ranking of hardships, and desires and the outcomes that those result in, there's no problem at all. I'm glad they're happy. If they're not happy, I'd urge them to change something.
Perhaps the reality of the situation can be accepted whilst also not accepting it as something unchangeable? It is certainly possible to make society fairer.
Do you mean fairer or more equal, because those are often in opposition?
It seems fair to me that someone with more drive, ambition, and goals would* out-earn someone with less of those things. Enforcing relatively equal outcomes would be reducing fairness IMO.
* - at least on average and all else being equal
Fairer. I don't have any opposition to rich people, well, being rich. I do have a problem with those at the lower end doing the hard, necessary work in society struggling by.
I mean in the UK we have stories of nurses, teachers, and social care workers using food banks. We live in a first world country, that should be unacceptable.
IMHO many of these problems stem from property prices being too high. In large parts of Europe, people have to spend too much of their income for having a roof over their heads. In addition, shops & restaurants need to pay so much for the buildings they are in that they have to inflate their prices. Germany seems to be an exception though. Shops and restaurants are significantly cheaper over there. In Germany we typically pay half for a similar meal at a similar restaurant compared to Belgium, the Netherlands or France.
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I don't have a perfect skillset or 20/20 foresight, I simply knew early on that I wanted to buy a house, I made that my #1 priority, and focused all of my available resources on making that happen. I figured owning a house was the hardest goal and the most beneficial down the road, so I'd work on that first and figure the rest out later so that's what I did. I've never been a particularly high earner, I do ok but I'm nowhere near the median in the region I live in. The only thing I did that was special was prioritize. I know lots of people that earn more than me, are smarter than me, etc that had different priorities and it cost them. I've watched numerous people make one bad choice after another and it's always the fault of something else that they're not getting ahead. They can't do this, can't do that, this just won't work, etc, throw up their hands in despair. This is precisely what Fran has been doing with the housing thing.
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I've watched numerous people make one bad choice after another and it's always the fault of something else that they're not getting ahead. They can't do this, can't do that, this just won't work, etc, throw up their hands in despair. This is precisely what Fran has been doing with the housing thing.
The thing that gets me is that she has always been in a good position lifestyle-wise to make a change to home ownership. Single, no dependents, owns and run her own business, and has a somewhat large space need (2000sqft) but that lends itself to a large house/barn thing. She has even lived in many different places in different states.
Sure, some of those things like being self employed sucks on the loan side of things, but surely not insurmountable.
I know she loves Philly and the lifestyle, and there is the whole trans fear thing, but trading future financial security for that is obviously turning out to be the wrong choice. If the evictions and rising rents weren't enough, now it's medical insurance expenses as the bonus whammy.
At 55yo or so, it's probably not too late, but every month doing the thing financially without change means the future outlook is bleak :(
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Meal portions at food courts in malls here are huge. Once a week on Saturdays I go buy a 1 person meal at a local mall at one of those "cook in front of you" outlets , and it is enough to feed 3 adults in my family. Cost is about $15 Canuck buck, so it is $5 per person to eat lunch. Sometimes we even have leftover food left for next day. This is ridiculous how big meals are but that works in our favor. Other days of week we cook food at home.
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I simply knew early on that I wanted to buy a house, I made that my #1 priority
That's great, and well done for getting to where you are. The beef I have is that you make it sound like anyone who didn't replicate that is a lazy, profligate ne'er do well.
With regards Fran and similar, if someone gets fixated or can't handle something, you're going to say it's their fault. Superficially, you'd be right. But do we say that about people with agoraphobia, claustrophobia and similar? How about people that are so unable to handle stuff that they take their own lives in preference? Hey, if you can not only survive and do well, it's their choice/fault to die, right?
I think it's pretty clear that Fran has serious issues over this. No-one is going to help by banging on about how it wouldn't and didn't happen to them, so Fran could just get her act together and Do It. No, she can't. If she we able to I have no doubt that she wouldn't be in this situation. It may seem a trivial thing to you to get out of this rut, but clearly it is beyond her, and I don't see that it is necessarily her fault any more than being in the wrong body is her fault.
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IMHO many of these problems stem from property prices being too high. In large parts of Europe, people have to spend too much of their income for having a roof over their heads. In addition, shops & restaurants need to pay so much for the buildings they are in that they have to inflate their prices. Germany seems to be an exception though. Shops and restaurants are significantly cheaper over there. In Germany we typically pay half for a similar meal at a similar restaurant compared to Belgium, the Netherlands or France.
I seem to recall many large German cities have some kind of rent control system, and really good rights for tenants.
I don't think it's anywhere as good as owning property but the idea of better tenants rights sounds like a really good idea. We ended up leaving a home we'd lived in for 2 years because our landlord wanted to sell the home. It makes it really hard to set up roots in a place if you have to move every few years.
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I simply knew early on that I wanted to buy a house, I made that my #1 priority
That's great, and well done for getting to where you are. The beef I have is that you make it sound like anyone who didn't replicate that is a lazy, profligate ne'er do well.
With regards Fran and similar, if someone gets fixated or can't handle something, you're going to say it's their fault. Superficially, you'd be right. But do we say that about people with agoraphobia, claustrophobia and similar? How about people that are so unable to handle stuff that they take their own lives in preference? Hey, if you can not only survive and do well, it's their choice/fault to die, right?
You make it sound harsh but having dealt with somebody who did kill himself, I can see (not understand though) how some people are so incapable of taking control over their own lives that it just turns into a mess no matter how hard they try. Even if people seek help, they have to be able to listen and make the necessary changes. The saying 'you can lead a horse to water, but it must drink by itself' is so very true. Or put differently: what is your solution to Fran's situation? The solution is glaringly obvious to many but nevertheless nothing happens that improves Fran's situation. Should we appoint a curator to take care of her?
Personally I agree a lot with what james_s wrote in his post. It is exactly how I have organised my life as well. Work your ass off to get a good structure (home / income) in place, set the right priorities and start benefitting from the hard work later on. It is a good way to set yourself up even if you hit some bumps in the road.
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IMHO many of these problems stem from property prices being too high. In large parts of Europe, people have to spend too much of their income for having a roof over their heads. In addition, shops & restaurants need to pay so much for the buildings they are in that they have to inflate their prices. Germany seems to be an exception though. Shops and restaurants are significantly cheaper over there. In Germany we typically pay half for a similar meal at a similar restaurant compared to Belgium, the Netherlands or France.
I seem to recall many large German cities have some kind of rent control system, and really good rights for tenants.
There are similar regulations in the Netherlands with price caps based on the size & condition of the homes for social housing. There are plans to extend that system to homes rented on the free market as well to lower housing costs for people that rent homes.
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Video.
Seems confirmed that she has immediate medical issues, and at 6:30 says it's going to be an ongoing $15k-20k/year thing :o as there are out of pocket expenses the insurance doesn't cover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JkIE2AAHfI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JkIE2AAHfI)
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That's great, and well done for getting to where you are. The beef I have is that you make it sound like anyone who didn't replicate that is a lazy, profligate ne'er do well.
With regards Fran and similar, if someone gets fixated or can't handle something, you're going to say it's their fault. Superficially, you'd be right. But do we say that about people with agoraphobia, claustrophobia and similar? How about people that are so unable to handle stuff that they take their own lives in preference? Hey, if you can not only survive and do well, it's their choice/fault to die, right?
I think it's pretty clear that Fran has serious issues over this. No-one is going to help by banging on about how it wouldn't and didn't happen to them, so Fran could just get her act together and Do It. No, she can't. If she we able to I have no doubt that she wouldn't be in this situation. It may seem a trivial thing to you to get out of this rut, but clearly it is beyond her, and I don't see that it is necessarily her fault any more than being in the wrong body is her fault.
But it is their fault. I get it, it sucks, life is hard, life isn't fair, mental illness sucks, circumstances suck, but it is what it is, you either find a way to work with what you've got or you fail. Sure there are people that genuinely got screwed over, they were dealt a lousy hand and that part isn't their fault, but those aren't really the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ones that have options but they don't take them, or they repeatedly make bad choices. I certainly didn't have the best circumstances growing up, I lived with a single parent just barely scraping by in a dumpy apartment after my parents got divorced when I was 13. I worked a crappy fast food job and tried the college thing for a while but dropped out when I realized I couldn't afford it and was not really the greatest student. But I didn't just give up, and I didn't paint myself into a corner with rigid requirements, I did what I had to do so that I'd never be in the position my mom was in of having to scrape up enough money to pay the rent.
I don't know, maybe some people just can't hack it, maybe they're not cut out for life, but many people COULD if they would just focus on taking the necessary steps rather than coming up with reasons why they can't. For years I've been dealing with a good friend that is under-employed, I occasionally come across jobs that he'd be a good fit for and send them his way, he says oh they won't hire him, he's not good enough at this or that language or skill, he's not a "real" developer, etc etc etc, despite the fact that I've seen him create rather complex embedded projects from scratch, write his own drivers in C for displays and RF modules and such, I've told him not to disqualify himself, apply and see what happens, worst case he doesn't get hired. I've all but given up because it's always excuses why it won't work and it drives me nuts. Of course it won't work IF YOU DON"T TRY.
These are the people I'm talking about, the ones that refuse to see the options that are in front of their own nose, refuse to try, refuse to prioritize and instead just come up with excuses and reasons that they will fail, before they've even started. If a person won't even try then I have little sympathy when they fail. Of course you will fail if that's what you set out to do.
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There are similar regulations in the Netherlands with price caps based on the size & condition of the homes for social housing. There are plans to extend that system to homes rented on the free market as well to lower housing costs for people that rent homes.
That seems like a disaster in the making. Seattle is a very progressive city near me, they have passed some strong renter protection laws and the result was exactly what most rational people would expect, thousands of small landlords sold their rental properties on the free market resulting in a shortage of rental properties which results in higher rent. Trying to control prices always has unintended consequences.
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These are the people I'm talking about, the ones that refuse to see the options that are in front of their own nose, refuse to try, refuse to prioritize and instead just come up with excuses and reasons that they will fail, before they've even started. If a person won't even try then I have little sympathy when they fail. Of course you will fail if that's what you set out to do.
In Fran's case I think she has tried, like in terms of trying to get a loan, multipe times from what I gather, but she seems to have now given up on that and simply says it's not possible.
Add in that she won't consider moving out of Philly, and the situation is now hopeless.
Well, it's not completely hopeless, you can buy a 2000sqft place in Philly for $80k, but, well, here you go:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/?)
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These are the people I'm talking about, the ones that refuse to see the options that are in front of their own nose, refuse to try, refuse to prioritize and instead just come up with excuses and reasons that they will fail, before they've even started. If a person won't even try then I have little sympathy when they fail. Of course you will fail if that's what you set out to do.
In Fran's case I think she has tried, like in terms of trying to get a loan, multipe times from what I gather, but she seems to have now given up on that and simply says it's not possible.
Add in that she won't consider moving out of Philly, and the situation is now hopeless.
Well, it's not completely hopeless, you can buy a 2000sqft place in Philly for $80k, but, well, here you go:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/?)
Actually, I've seen way worse neighbourhoods in Philly
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@39.9944218,-75.1760258,3a,60y,309.7h,86.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snYKbnfG1QJJH7Tv3qRPmfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com.au/maps/@39.9944218,-75.1760258,3a,60y,309.7h,86.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snYKbnfG1QJJH7Tv3qRPmfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Throw in another $20k for a cheap DIY renno and that's FranLab 4.0
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In Fran's case I think she has tried, like in terms of trying to get a loan, multipe times from what I gather, but she seems to have now given up on that and simply says it's not possible.
Add in that she won't consider moving out of Philly, and the situation is now hopeless.
Well, it's not completely hopeless, you can buy a 2000sqft place in Philly for $80k, but, well, here you go:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/?)
It's the "won't consider moving out of Philly" part that makes it hopeless. We all know there are other decent places to live, and you'd be hard pressed to do worse than Philly unless your idea of "decent" is very strange. If anything, it's the medical issue that makes things hopeless. Out of all the factors at play, that is probably the only one that quite possibly lacks an element of choice. We can all make choices that reduce the risk of serious medical problems but even healthy people that take good care of themselves sometimes get seriously ill through no fault of their own.
That place is a bit of a dump, but hey, $80k for a roof and four walls, a person could do worse. Beats living in a tent on the sidewalk.
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That's odd, there's a streetlight mounted the wrong way around pointed right at a building on that street, never seen that before.
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In Fran's case I think she has tried, like in terms of trying to get a loan, multipe times from what I gather, but she seems to have now given up on that and simply says it's not possible.
Add in that she won't consider moving out of Philly, and the situation is now hopeless.
Well, it's not completely hopeless, you can buy a 2000sqft place in Philly for $80k, but, well, here you go:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2524-26-N-27th-St-Philadelphia-PA-19132/10310452_zpid/?)
It's the "won't consider moving out of Philly" part that makes it hopeless. We all know there are other decent places to live, and you'd be hard pressed to do worse than Philly unless your idea of "decent" is very strange.
I can find no shortage of places under $200k within an hours drive of Philly.
Even if you want a huge block, for example, $180k, 2391sqft home on 1.39 acress of land, need a complete reno, but wouldn't be too hard. No one would bother you there, and the area looks nice.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/366-Hoffmansville-Rd-Bechtelsville-PA-19505/9920135_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/366-Hoffmansville-Rd-Bechtelsville-PA-19505/9920135_zpid/)
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I can find no shortage of places under $200k within an hours drive of Philly.
Even if you want a huge block, for example, $180k, 2391sqft home on 1.39 acress of land, need a complete reno, but wouldn't be too hard. No one would bother you there, and the area looks nice.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/366-Hoffmansville-Rd-Bechtelsville-PA-19505/9920135_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/366-Hoffmansville-Rd-Bechtelsville-PA-19505/9920135_zpid/)
Or a rather nice suburban home in NJ, just over the bridge from Philly for $199k. A bit dated but plenty of working space:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/813-W-Kings-Hwy-Mount-Ephraim-NJ-08059/38287330_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/813-W-Kings-Hwy-Mount-Ephraim-NJ-08059/38287330_zpid/)
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That looks quite nice. Nothing wrong with "dated", mid-century is all the rage these days anyway.
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That looks quite nice. Nothing wrong with "dated", mid-century is all the rage these days anyway.
Totally nice normal looking neighborhood. You could hop on a bike and ride into Philly.
You can see Philly in the background! Huge block of land, set for life, no one would bother you.
Don't know about NJ taxes etc though.
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NJ - Home of the McMansion ;D
I think taxes in NJ are a tad on the high side... Also, they have a funny law where it's illegal to pump your own gasoline at the filling station - an employee must do it for you.
I imagine it's still nicer than central Philly.
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Oregon has the same law, it has always struck me as weird to not be allowed to do something I've been doing for decades. I try to avoid buying gas until I get back to Washington.
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Looks like the fund raising is going to peter out at $10k of the $15k wanted. Not sure if that includes the 3% transaction fee or not. Then I think Fran has said before there are state taxes of some such, IIRC about 30%?
So looks like she'll get around half the required amount, just for the remainder of this year. The rest will have to come from savings or Franlab income which was already boderline.
So sounds like even a more precarious position than before this?
If ongoing medical is required, which I think she has indicated it will be, this fund raiser won't work again every year.
Again, drastic changed required somewhere I think.
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That's actually better than I expected, since it's just kicking the can down the road without any plan. On top of that, the tech industry has been suffering a lot of layoffs recently and people interested in Fran's videos are probably disproportionately likely to work in tech. Even many of those of us that are still employed are cutting back in order to boost the emergency fund.
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That's actually better than I expected, since it's just kicking the can down the road without any plan. On top of that, the tech industry has been suffering a lot of layoffs recently and people interested in Fran's videos are probably disproportionately likely to work in tech. Even many of those of us that are still employed are cutting back in order to boost the emergency fund.
It's only 130 people backing it, that's less than 8% of her Patrons. That tracks with engagment that all of us creators see, you basically never get greater than 10% engagment with even you most ardent fans, the Patrons who are paying money. >90% of them won't even watch the free advance video you post, or vote in polls etc.
And that's the delemma Fran will continually face.
I still see the only way out is drastically cutting expenses by any means necessary.
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I'm not sure how accurate Graphtreon is, but Patrons are dropping every month after the last big call for help which is the big rise that you see.
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It's only 130 people backing it, that's less than 8% of her Patrons
Perhaps the other 90% consider their Patreon subs already contributing. Indeed, those 130 might not be patrons at all.
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It's only 130 people backing it, that's less than 8% of her Patrons
Perhaps the other 90% consider their Patreon subs already contributing. Indeed, those 130 might not be patrons at all.
I think majority are, as she put the link on Patreon first and I think it was at at least $6k before the public video.
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Again, drastic changes required somewhere I think.
For sure. And if one waits too long, a change will be imposed on oneself (because we live in the real world), and that won't be pleasant.
Planning is really not about deciding how things should go, it is about knowing how to react and having a choice when changes do occur. The planned course of action then just identifies the most preferable set of options.
If you plan everything on one course of action, you will be in stress hell. Any small setback, and even the risk of a setback, can feel unsurmountable.
When you know you have alternatives available, you feel much freer in choosing your reactions, and things just don't feel unsurmountable, or setbacks "final".
I used to plan things around a single course of action when I was younger, and it lead to a lot of stress-related problems, even when things went consistently my way.
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I'm not sure how accurate Graphtreon is, but Patrons are dropping every month after the last big call for help which is the big rise that you see.
Is that regular "dip" in Patreons correlated with each video asking for help or something else? It seems very regular ???
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Planning is really not about deciding how things should go, it is about knowing how to react and having a choice when changes do occur. The planned course of action then just identifies the most preferable set of options.
:-+
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I'm not sure how accurate Graphtreon is, but Patrons are dropping every month after the last big call for help which is the big rise that you see.
Is that regular "dip" in Patreons correlated with each video asking for help or something else? It seems very regular ???
Nope, I see the exact same pattern when zoomed in, so it must be an algorithm thing or something. And my Patrons are continually dropping just like she has confirmed hers does too.
I think the Patreon gravy train might be on the downward slope for Fran, at least that's what's I'd plan on if I was her.
Fran is proping it up peridocially with a specific video on the topic and how dire it is, and it works a little bit to stop loses in previous months, but then the most recent one dropped back to where she was before within a month or two. She confirmed this in one of the videos.
Without an alternative strategy now, it's unsustainable unless she gets a huge algorithm boost on Youtube.
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It's a real tough thing. I've never done any YouTube, but I can imagine it's quite difficult to reach the point where it replaces 'conventional' income for sustainment.
The world isn't fair, and not all good content is recognized with the same financial success.
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Again, drastic changes required somewhere I think.
For sure. And if one waits too long, a change will be imposed on oneself (because we live in the real world), and that won't be pleasant.
Planning is really not about deciding how things should go, it is about knowing how to react and having a choice when changes do occur. The planned course of action then just identifies the most preferable set of options.
If you plan everything on one course of action, you will be in stress hell. Any small setback, and even the risk of a setback, can feel unsurmountable.
When you know you have alternatives available, you feel much freer in choosing your reactions, and things just don't feel unsurmountable, or setbacks "final".
I used to plan things around a single course of action when I was younger, and it lead to a lot of stress-related problems, even when things went consistently my way.
Actually, we don't need to guess, she has told us the plan in the previous videos. She is all-in on Patreon, and if that combined with the Youtube revenue drops then the factory gets shut down first, then the two storage units, and then it's the end of Franlab and back to a 9-5 job to survivie if she can get one.
As a viewer, I think her channel could survivie just fine without the factory and the two storage units close to hand (within walking distance I think?).
To me the plan I would implement right now would be to put the call out for someone who can offer to rent her a very cheap large space (like a barn or something) outside of Philly, but driveable distance so she could go there and get stuff if needed. Maybe do one trip every month to get items for teardown etc.
That would immediately slash 3 rents into 1 and give some buffer room and to build up some savings.
I also have 3 locations outside of my house (lab+2 storage), and that's what I'd do if I was in the same financial situation. Ditch the 3 expensive convenient locations and rent a big cheap shed out in the western suburbs and make videos back in my garage again.
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It's a real tough thing. I've never done any YouTube, but I can imagine it's quite difficult to reach the point where it replaces 'conventional' income for sustainment.
I've been doing Youtube for 13 years, and 11 years full time now, and even after all that time the Youtube income alone would still not be enough for me to make this a full time living.
Well, I wouldn't be destitute over the US$50k US (+US$5K EEVblog2) income over the last year, but I could earn more as a professional engineer again, and that's what the wife would make me do ;D
I only went full time and am very confortable now because I diversified my income streams (Youtube, Patreon, merch, product, website and forum advertising), and I made the decision early on to take on a bit of risk and buy my lab and storage unit instead of rent, and to pay it off as quickly as I could.
Also look at the other electronics Youtubers who are now bigger than my channel, like Electroboom and Great Scott, they would earn more Yotuube adsense revenue than me as they get more views, but they have to take in-video sponsorships to ultimately get a decent income. You have to do what you have to do to keep the dream job going. In my first year full time I had a side design consulting gig as the money wasn't quite there yet.
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Dave, you seem to be enjoying searching for real estate out there. Are you going to buy some? If you make a REIT (real estate investment trust) I'm in.
I can see it now, a REIT / makerspace / incubator franchise. We help people bring their ideas to the market and they help us retire.
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She is all-in on Patreon, and if that combined with the Youtube revenue drops then the factory gets shut down first, then the two storage units, and then it's the end of Franlab and back to a 9-5 job to survivie if she can get one.
Yup. Like I said, in my experience that leads to stress hell: no options, no hope for having better 2024 than 2023 or 2022 or 2021. The absolute best outcome she's hoping for is "things do not change". I just hope her health issues aren't stress-induced or -excarberated.
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Dave, you seem to be enjoying searching for real estate out there. Are you going to buy some? If you make a REIT (real estate investment trust) I'm in.
I can see it now, a REIT / makerspace / incubator franchise. We help people bring their ideas to the market and they help us retire.
It's a hobby of mine.
The thing is, something like this might actually be possible if Fran was flexible with moving and travel. The entire problem is she isn't flexible.
There are even options for makerspaces in Philly like this one:
https://nextfab.com/join/#mem-lvls (https://nextfab.com/join/#mem-lvls)
or this:
https://www.hive76.org/ (https://www.hive76.org/)
I don't know if her factory is already part of one of these, but that first one offers shipping services and I've tried to convence her before to get into branded product sales but she has vetoed that idea based on that delivery from her place is almost non-exisistent.
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At this rate Dave might end up being the premier world expert on real estate in the PA/NJ region of the USA.
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Dave, you seem to be enjoying searching for real estate out there. Are you going to buy some? If you make a REIT (real estate investment trust) I'm in.
I can see it now, a REIT / makerspace / incubator franchise. We help people bring their ideas to the market and they help us retire.
It's a hobby of mine.
The thing is, something like this might actually be possible if Fran was flexible with moving and travel. The entire problem is she isn't flexible.
There are even options for makerspaces in Philly like this one:
https://nextfab.com/join/#mem-lvls (https://nextfab.com/join/#mem-lvls)
or this:
https://www.hive76.org/ (https://www.hive76.org/)
I don't know if her factory is already part of one of these, but that first one offers shipping services and I've tried to convence her before to get into branded product sales but she has vetoed that idea based on that delivery from her place is almost non-exisistent.
That sounds like a good fit. Someone that can deal with shipping and some of the other things Fran doesn't want to do.
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At this rate Dave might end up being the premier world expert on real estate in the PA/NJ region of the USA.
It's surprising how few hours it takes to get (and maintain) decent knowledge of an area and prices/features etc.
I even found places for Louis Rossmann that he hadn't found when he was looking, and he went to visit one in a video. It was a dump, but it was a genuine size.
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It's surprising how few hours it takes to get (and maintain) decent knowledge of an area and prices/features etc.
I even found places for Louis Rossmann that he hadn't found when he was looking, and he went to visit one in a video. It was a dump, but it was a genuine size.
I remember the joke around the time Rossmann was looking for a new space was he was a real estate consultant whose side business was fixing Macbooks. "Rossmann Realty & Mac Repair"
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Fran just released a Patreon video thanking everyone for the campaign donations. The $11k or so was enough for her to secure this years expenses and so it's back to FranLab business as usual :phew:
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Well not that it's at all surprising, but here we go again. She is going to piss away more time not coming up with a plan and the drama will start over when this batch of funding runs out.
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"Professional Begger" modus operandi.
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And we get sick between episodes of good health. Such is life. ;D
Not that I'm advocating living life with zero plan, but I've seen quite a few people who had carefully planned every piece of their lives, just to have it all fall apart unexpectedly down the line.
So I'm not being too judgmental here and giving her some slack.
I'll just advise her to keep looking for an affordable property and be open to find it away from where she is now. Not just because it would secure her future, but mainly because it would mean more peace and less stress IMO.
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I'll just advise her to keep looking for an affordable property and be open to find it away from where she is now. Not just because it would secure her future, but mainly because it would mean more peace and less stress IMO.
That's what I do, even when I'm not looking.
I get email alerts for various keywords and features of properties that might interest me in the future, and so I can keep my ear to the ground of the market.
I even go inspect places in the park just to check out buildings etc. So if something does come along that suits my needs and it's bargain then I have all the information to pounce on an opportunity.
I found my current lab by literally walking every floor of every building in the business park. It wasn't listed online and had been on the market for a year just sitting there empty.
Likewise I found my two storage units by have keyword alerts, and one of them was burried deep down in a listing for another bigger office, so if I hadn't had read that listing I would have missed out on my dungeon space.
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Not that I'm advocating living life with zero plan, but I've seen quite a few people who had carefully planned every piece of their lives, just to have it all fall apart unexpectedly down the line.
Well, as Muhammad Ali said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face"
I'll just advise her to keep looking for an affordable property and be open to find it away from where she is now. Not just because it would secure her future, but mainly because it would mean more peace and less stress IMO.
You guys think it would make sence to her to post a call "Hire me as a consultant" type of thing? With this broad audience perhaps a few offers may come? Would give an official part time income stream.
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You guys think it would make sence to her to post a call "Hire me as a consultant" type of thing? With this broad audience perhaps a few offers may come? Would give an official part time income stream.
Only if it meant the difference between folding Franlab and keeping it going.
I turn down all design consulting gigs, as I just don't have the time to do them.
I can say with certainty that Fran's channel takes all her time, and of course that's what she likes doing, so you can't blame her for trying to eek out a living doing it as a full time job and devotign all her time to it. There are easier and less time consuming side income gigs IMO.
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Not that I'm advocating living life with zero plan, but I've seen quite a few people who had carefully planned every piece of their lives, just to have it all fall apart unexpectedly down the line.
Well, as Muhammad Ali said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face"
Mike Tyson.
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I can say with certainty that Fran's channel takes all her time, and of course that's what she likes doing, so you can't blame her for trying to eek out a living doing it as a full time job and devotign all her time to it. There are easier and less time consuming side income gigs IMO.
If her channel takes all her time and it's what she likes doing then it makes perfect sense to focus on that. As I think you have said a few times, close down the factory, consolidate storage and sell/give away or otherwise dispose of anything that is not going to contribute to content. She could live in a much smaller space, say a 2 bedroom apartment with one of the bedrooms used as a studio/workshop. Excess stuff could be stored anywhere within a reasonable drive.
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I've seen quite a few people who had carefully planned every piece of their lives, just to have it all fall apart unexpectedly down the line.
I like planning that includes plenty of safety factor. Specially when that extra safety factor allows for quick and flexible planning.
I've known people who make complex plans where everything must go perfectly or else they have a big problem. It never turns out and it's always someone else's fault.
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Franlab tour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUnDQ3VvTQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUnDQ3VvTQ)
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Did she renovate or move again or was that move she announced last year?
(https://i.imgur.com/6qbgY3J.png)
Interesting, is that a jukebox?
Very big and I don't think I have seen one like that before.
I like the lab though spacious, but it looks more like a factory to me with the tools and machines and now I'll think of it as FranFactory.
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Did she renovate or move again or was that move she announced last year?
Same place.
I like the lab though spacious, but it looks more like a factory to me with the tools and machines and now I'll think of it as FranFactory.
She rents a separate factory in a shared space, kinda like a maker space I think but she has her own dedicated room.
FranLab is just her residential apartment, 3 bedroom by the looks of it.
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Did she renovate or move again or was that move she announced last year?
(https://i.imgur.com/6qbgY3J.png)
Interesting, is that a jukebox?
Very big and I don't think I have seen one like that before.
I like the lab though spacious, but it looks more like a factory to me with the tools and machines and now I'll think of it as FranFactory.
My memory says that jukebox is from the mid-1980's. Still containing 45's, not CD's.
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far from 100% saturation. still gaps between items and the ceiling . see lots of empty space. nice. :-+
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still gaps between items
Every one of those inches is your patreon dollars going to waste! :P
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Fran's channel is really getting hammered for some reason.
She dropped from one video a day to one every two days and views dropped like a rock.
My channel doesn't do that.
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Maybe it's the content? Have there been any cool technical videos lately? Or is it all complaining about the situation and begging for more money?
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Maybe it's the content? Have there been any cool technical videos lately? Or is it all complaining about the situation and begging for more money?
That woudl not explain the seaming drop of "ever green" long-tail content.
My channel for example get half the daily views from old videos promoted by The Algorithm + search. Fran's eclectic content channel would be the same as mine evergreen content wise, so I think something is up.
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The content is only part of the equation on YT, thinking otherwise is deluded.
Many successful channels seem to see the same pattern, at least half the views, if not more, from old videos.
Sure it's possible that a fraction of her viewers got a bit tired of hearing maybe too much about her life than they'd like to hear.
But there are many factors at play regarding how YT promotes videos, most of which being completely opaque, and the way YT promotes your videos is what really makes the difference.
A sudden drop in frequency for new videos seems to be a clear factor. From what I've seen, it's more a change in frequency than the absolute number of new videos in a given time frame. If someone posts 1 new video per month with excellent regularity, they'll get better results than someone posting 1 video per week when they were posting 2 per week before, and so on.
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I guess it could just be the mysterious algorithm that Google uses. Actually quite a lot of the content I end up watching is stuff that pops up on the main page when I go there, I don't like to be logged into Google any more often than is absolutely necessary so I very rarely rely on my subscriptions. In that respect I may be part of the problem.
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From what Dave explained a while ago IIRC, the number of views a channel gets from notifications is pretty small (and I've heard other Youtubers say the same), so it doesn't make a significant different despite most Youtubers constantly asking people to click on the notification bell - they are encouraged by YT to ask that, but in practice it makes very little difference as it seems.
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From what Dave explained a while ago IIRC, the number of views a channel gets from notifications is pretty small (and I've heard other Youtubers say the same), so it doesn't make a significant different despite most Youtubers constantly asking people to click on the notification bell - they are encouraged by YT to ask that, but in practice it makes very little difference as it seems.
Correct. Most people watch it via the browser tab feature. If it's not showing up there then no one clicks. Only those specifcally notified or on the Subscriptions tab will see the video.
The Algorithm is key to both just released content and older content.
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Forgive my ignorance but what is the browser tab feature?
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Forgive my ignorance but what is the browser tab feature?
Sorry, wrong term, I meant the Youtube Home page (personalised results if you are signed in)
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Another FranLab update video released, it's not a fund drive video, just an update. Patron only video at the moment, I'm sure it'll get released in a day or two.
She discusses how the algorithm is killing the channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMLgHbpJ8qYqj3CkdbvC0Ww/community?lb=Ugkxm0GFLPVbSdrDZVrdmgwylJ0soT_gCrCN (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMLgHbpJ8qYqj3CkdbvC0Ww/community?lb=Ugkxm0GFLPVbSdrDZVrdmgwylJ0soT_gCrCN)
And if she doesn't maintain the green funding line, it's ultimately game over. Doesn't sounds good. It should be very clear that something needs to be done now. You have to assume there is no way to maintain that funding level, so it's time to cut expenses, drastically.
UPDATE: Fran replied to my comment about cutting cost by saying "I am optimised".
Well, I'd guess that with $80k/year in expenses was it? that is not quite optimised.
I really don't want Fran to fail and have to give up this game :( but I'm just not seeing a way out of it apart from cutting costs or another revenue stream.
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She'll figure it out! (Am I being optimistic now? ;D or maybe it's just a management technique!)
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UPDATE: Fran replied to my comment about cutting cost by saying "I am optimised".
Well, I'd guess that with $80k/year in expenses was it? that is not quite optimised.
I really don't want Fran to fail and have to give up this game :( but I"m just not seeing a away out of it apart from cutting costs or another revenue stream.
It is a bit like someone who has had a $150,000 per year, highly paid job, who enjoys cars. So they drive round in this really nice car, which costs $80k/year to run. Which is sort of ok, but maybe they should be saving up some money as well, but it is debatable.
So, by saying the car costs ARE optimized. They seem to mean, they have found the cheapest car insurance for such an expensive car, they have found a good enough quality garage to service and repair the car, at reasonable costs and they are careful to control other car maintenance costs, to keep at the $80k/year level.
But of course, when if they lose that job, and if they then have to take a $50k/year job. They need to sell the car, and buy a much more cost efficient car. NOT say the car costs are already optimized, at $80k/year.
Fran seems like a realistic, sensible, intelligent person overall. So I'm a bit puzzled, at how they are so happy with their so called 'optimized' business structure.
Fran seems to happily and very rapidly jump at the band-wagon, as soon as any (usually technologically related) company / entity / news-item, falls into their realm. Then they seem to relish at criticizing what has happened. E.g. Massive balloons being shot down, or giant fish tanks, seemingly almost exploding, etc.
Typically (very roughly speaking), with step by step, detailed explanations, on how those various projects failed and why, also what they did wrong. Or similar.
So, it is somewhat ironic, that they can be subject to criticism.
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Oops, I accidently edited this post and lost stuff instead fo quoting it :palm:
As for cutting costs, here you go:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/)
2400sqft in the nearby town of reading for $0.83/sqft, or $2k/year. Or under $1k/year for the 1350sqft option.
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There is very little connection between intelligence and being rational. Many otherwise highly intelligent people hold irrational beliefs or have quirks that I would view as irrational. Some people are very stubborn and get totally stuck on certain arguably arbitrary things, it doesn't mean they are not intelligent.
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So she'll have the drive an hour to get there to do stuff or pickup stuff, but worth it IMO. But I'm not Fran.
She might not drive. I've known a small few urban people that don't own a car, and a smaller few that are not even licensed to drive. Of course getting trained and licensed to drive and acquiring some kind of car is certainly possible, and would easily pay for itself in the savings on rent, but I think if she were willing to go this route she would have already done it.
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She might not drive. I've known a small few urban people that don't own a car, and a smaller few that are not even licensed to drive. Of course getting trained and licensed to drive and acquiring some kind of car is certainly possible, and would easily pay for itself in the savings on rent, but I think if she were willing to go this route she would have already done it.
Yeah, I was about to say the same... She's mentioned having cars in the past, but I've never heard her say anything about driving that sounded like it might have been in the last decade. Seems like it could make sense... but I've kinda given up on her funding travails making sense, so mostly just ignore it now. :-//
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I have to pretty much ignore it too, it's like watching a train heading toward the end of the track, while somebody frantically works to build more track but it is painfully obvious that they have no hope of doing it fast enough and there is no end game such as stopping the train. All options being seriously pursued are just kicking the can down the road a bit and delaying the inevitable. It's kind of depressing.
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So she'll have the drive an hour to get there to do stuff or pickup stuff, but worth it IMO. But I'm not Fran.
She might not drive.
She does have a car, I think it's a classic something. Her apartment has a car spot which is rare in Philly aparently.
She also has a motorbike, or at least had, not sure if she still does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mNXFvjchU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mNXFvjchU)
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As for cutting costs, here you go:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/)
2400sqft in the nearby town of reading for $0.83/sqft, or $2k/year. Or under $1k/year for the 1350sqft option.
I've sent Fran the link if it's of use to her.
She has a lot of stuff stockpiled in her lab/apartment so I can envisage only needing to go to a remote storage facility an hour away very occaisonally.
I rarely go to my big bunker these days, and it's only a 5min walk away from my lab, as I have my new dungeon downstairs where I keep my stock and some other stuff that I might use soon in a video. Or at least have it there in my view every time I go in so it might inspire to get off my butt and make a video on it.
Fran and I are practically identical in this regard to hoarding stuff for potential videos.
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As for cutting costs, here you go:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/)
2400sqft in the nearby town of reading for $0.83/sqft, or $2k/year. Or under $1k/year for the 1350sqft option.
I've sent Fran the link if it's of use to her.
Scratch that. I won't try again. I know I said that last time, but I can't help myself. Engineers just like solving problems I guess.
Anyway, I'd like to see more of the bike riding videos. Louis Rossmann made those quite popular.
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As for cutting costs, here you go:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/)
2400sqft in the nearby town of reading for $0.83/sqft, or $2k/year. Or under $1k/year for the 1350sqft option.
I've sent Fran the link if it's of use to her.
Scratch that. I won't try again. I know I said that last time, but I can't help myself. Engineers just like solving problems I guess.
Anyway, I'd like to see more of the bike riding videos. Louis Rossmann made those quite popular.
whatever happened to Louis Rossmann? just another loss
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Scratch that. I won't try again. I know I said that last time, but I can't help myself. Engineers just like solving problems I guess.
Anyway, I'd like to see more of the bike riding videos. Louis Rossmann made those quite popular.
That's sometimes the problem engineers have in relationships, trying to fix the problem rather than listening and letting it be.
Fran's model for living appears no longer valid and needs to change whether she likes it or not.
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As for cutting costs, here you go:
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/ (https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/414-Blair-Ave-Reading-PA/27896820/)
2400sqft in the nearby town of reading for $0.83/sqft, or $2k/year. Or under $1k/year for the 1350sqft option.
I've sent Fran the link if it's of use to her.
Scratch that. I won't try again. I know I said that last time, but I can't help myself. Engineers just like solving problems I guess.
Anyway, I'd like to see more of the bike riding videos. Louis Rossmann made those quite popular.
whatever happened to Louis Rossmann? just another loss
He's still around and quite active on Youtube. But he is no longer in the unique environment of NYC, where parking is hard and traffic sucks. But he streams plenty of 30 minute Texas commutes in his Tesla, if that floats your boat.
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Scratch that. I won't try again. I know I said that last time, but I can't help myself. Engineers just like solving problems I guess.
Anyway, I'd like to see more of the bike riding videos. Louis Rossmann made those quite popular.
That's sometimes the problem engineers have in relationships, trying to fix the problem rather than listening and letting it be.
Fran's model for living appears no longer valid and needs to change whether she likes it or not.
It's not about the nail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg)
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Scratch that. I won't try again. I know I said that last time, but I can't help myself. Engineers just like solving problems I guess.
Anyway, I'd like to see more of the bike riding videos. Louis Rossmann made those quite popular.
That's sometimes the problem engineers have in relationships, trying to fix the problem rather than listening and letting it be.
Fran's model for living appears no longer valid and needs to change whether she likes it or not.
She can live however she wants, that's none of our business.
While we can all have an opinion on her situation and most of us have stated it, I don't much like this kind of statement. It sounds obnoxious, condescending and authoritarian.
Giving her benevolent advice is fine, telling her what she has to do or else, really?
Just my 2 cents though.
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I'm not telling her what to do. I am however stating what she would have to do in order for me to consider contributing funds toward the effort. I would chip in a small amount toward a "permanent" solution that involved purchasing a property somewhere. I will not contribute to enabling the current behavior delaying the inevitable by begging for money repeatedly while bleeding enormous amounts of cash with no plan.
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I'm not telling her what to do. I am however stating what she would have to do in order for me to consider contributing funds toward the effort. I would chip in a small amount toward a "permanent" solution that involved purchasing a property somewhere. I will not contribute to enabling the current behavior delaying the inevitable by begging for money repeatedly while bleeding enormous amounts of cash with no plan.
This was not addressed to you but rather to the post that I quoted.
Participating in funding is something else. Obviously you're 100% free to decide the way you'd fund and under which "conditions".
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imho: no, stop it
Is there a reason this thread needs to continue? It's been nearly five years since the original event. Do all discussions of this particular YouTuber's channel -- and needlessly invasive discussions of their personal life -- need to continue under the gloomy auspices of this thread's title, or at all? Hopefully I'm not stepping on a landmine with this one.
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Is there a reason this thread needs to continue? It's been nearly five years
Yeah, I lurk here to watch people retrying for five years the same old nonsolutions which all failed to work five years ago, and never learn.
:popcorn:
So it's fuel for my addiction to Internet drama and irrational behavior. Maybe also a chance for the active participants to learn, or maybe not.
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I'm hoping that this kind of thread teaches or reminds technical people to avoid making this-or-bust plans, and instead carefully consider alternatives, and have a few back-up plans in case of things going tits up.
Talking about options and suggestions, as if her situation was a problem to be solved, is how us technical people deal with it.
Having the other options discussed, hopefully might spark ideas in others as to what kind of back-up plans one could have.
The most important thing, though, is to observe that even if you are competent and work hard and produce a lot of videos, there are no guarantees things will go your way, and planning for alternatives is not about admitting defeat, but being resilient and prepared for setbacks.
Besides, what else should we discuss? There aren't any interesting problems related to programming or math or physics on this forum right now.
If you want members to talk about something else, start a new thread on a more useful/interesting topic.
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This ^ ^ ^ from Nominal Animal.
Also, the reason why the subject is still being discussed is that there are several people who care and are interested in her well-being, for example:
I really don't want Fran to fail and have to give up this game :(
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imho: no, stop it
Is there a reason this thread needs to continue? It's been nearly five years since the original event. Do all discussions of this particular YouTuber's channel -- and needlessly invasive discussions of their personal life -- need to continue under the gloomy auspices of this thread's title, or at all? Hopefully I'm not stepping on a landmine with this one.
Fran's problem is still going as are similar problems for many people. There is a cost of living crisis that is going through the biggest changes in many years. Many people are being pushed from their homes and cities and they are pushing governments to make drastic changes.
Between Fran's choice to put this online and similar peoples' choices to push governments to make drastic changes that impact us, I think this discussion is justified and relevant.
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Is there a reason this thread needs to continue? It's been nearly five years since the original event. Do all discussions of this particular YouTuber's channel -- and needlessly invasive discussions of their personal life -- need to continue under the gloomy auspices of this thread's title, or at all? Hopefully I'm not stepping on a landmine with this one.
This "particular person" has made her dirty laundry very public in the process of repeatedly begging for money, her channel is very relevant to this forum and most of us have watched at least some of her content. The reason the thread has continued so long is that her situation keeps repeating itself and every time it does it wakes up this thread again. If you don't see any value in continuing the thread you are free to leave it any time, there's a whole forum full of other threads you may find more value participating in.
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whatever happened to Louis Rossmann? just another loss
Huh? How?
He's still making daily videos and killing it, he's got 1.76M subs.
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Is there a reason this thread needs to continue? It's been nearly five years since the original event. Do all discussions of this particular YouTuber's channel -- and needlessly invasive discussions of their personal life -- need to continue under the gloomy auspices of this thread's title, or at all? Hopefully I'm not stepping on a landmine with this one.
Everyone here likes Fran, watches her videos, and cares about how she's doing. We just want to help. The thead has stayed open because there literally is something happening on the financial front every 6 months or something. Doesn't make sense a new thread should open every time something happens.
I agree that if this was a private matter that it wouldn't warrant discussion, but it's not private, it's quite public by her own admission.
And it's been a good on-topic place to discuss similar stuff than impacts us all. Housing, rent vs buy, finances, labs and spaces, storage etc.
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This ^ ^ ^ from Nominal Animal.
Also, the reason why the subject is still being discussed is that there are several people who care and are interested in her well-being, for example:
I really don't want Fran to fail and have to give up this game :(
Yes, I also 2nd Nominals post.
For me personally, Fran is a close friend of mine, and we talk a lot about this stuff behind the scenes, or at least we used to. Now sadly I can't even link in a possible cheaper storage solution for her just in case she might need it.
Her public thinking has been that she will progressively shut down the spaces and channel unless the Patreon funds stay at a certain level. And I know she wants nothing more than to keep the channel going. So I for one am not going to abandon helping her, even if that means I have to just give tiny little nudges here and there now, and to discuss it here instead of personally or on her channel.
Maybe if enough people give a little nudge then maybe she'll start to think other options aren't as bad as they seem.
And as Nominal said, it helps others here too, and many of us enjoy discussing these sorts of topics.
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IMHO the 'it is not about the nail' video Sokoloff posted is good food for thought. Some people are just so stuck in their world that it takes a special intervention to make them see the light.
I witnessed one particular example while swimming in an outside pool during Covid restrictions. We where all supposed to swim counter clockwise in a big circle using two 'joined' swimming lanes. Everyone was doing that. But one time there was a lady that just kept swimming straight lines between the sides of the pool. The life guard told her a couple of times to swim in a circle like everybody else in order to maintain distance. It just didn't compute with her and the third time the lifeguard told her go swim in a circle or leave. She left in anger. Now what is simpler than swimming in a circle? :-// But how do you get through to someone that appearantly doesn't have the ability to go through that thought process?
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That's a nice story. :popcorn:
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be thankful for the space you have, others have less. that feel the need to stay in one place.
New York City dog box 80 by 150 with a shared bathroom for $650 a month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T7Wpg7A_xw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T7Wpg7A_xw)
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Video released:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr0M9uQMR5I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr0M9uQMR5I)
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be thankful for the space you have, others have less. that feel the need to stay in one place.
New York City dog box 80 by 150 with a shared bathroom for $650 a month.
It's all about choices. A person could easily find somewhere else to live if having space was worth more than being in that particular location. Personally I can't see why someone would want to live in NYC at all, much less at the cost of doing so.
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be thankful for the space you have, others have less. that feel the need to stay in one place.
New York City dog box 80 by 150 with a shared bathroom for $650 a month.
It's all about choices. A person could easily find somewhere else to live if having space was worth more than being in that particular location. Personally I can't see why someone would want to live in NYC at all, much less at the cost of doing so.
I'm happy with my 750sqm block and house (expanding upwards soon), 50sqm office, 44sqm bunker, and 31sqm dungeon.
With hindsight of course I should have bought bigger with both the home and lab, or simply bought a big block of land I could have built a huge lab on. Both house and lab and storage units have risen about 300% or more.
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Is there a reason this thread needs to continue? It's been nearly five years since the original event. Do all discussions of this particular YouTuber's channel -- and needlessly invasive discussions of their personal life -- need to continue under the gloomy auspices of this thread's title, or at all? Hopefully I'm not stepping on a landmine with this one.
Everyone here likes Fran, watches her videos, and cares about how she's doing. We just want to help. The thead has stayed open because there literally is something happening on the financial front every 6 months or something. Doesn't make sense a new thread should open every time something happens.
I agree that if this was a private matter that it wouldn't warrant discussion, but it's not private, it's quite public by her own admission.
And it's been a good on-topic place to discuss similar stuff than impacts us all. Housing, rent vs buy, finances, labs and spaces, storage etc.
I like when she goes back to what drew me to her channel in the first place; teardowns and demonstrations of obscure and obsolete electronics. The UFO nonsense, complaints about how life isn't how she wants it to be, linking old film instead of making content, are things that make me skip videos and look for other channels.
The same applies to any channel really; add new content style by all means, but drop original stuff at your peril, since it's what brought people there in the first place.
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be thankful for the space you have, others have less. that feel the need to stay in one place.
New York City dog box 80 by 150 with a shared bathroom for $650 a month.
It's all about choices. A person could easily find somewhere else to live if having space was worth more than being in that particular location. Personally I can't see why someone would want to live in NYC at all, much less at the cost of doing so.
It sure is. And one can think up many reasons for wanting to live in a big town and the same applies to wanting to live out in the sticks. Throughout my life I moved further away from cities, because I seek the tranquility of the country life. Can't stand the noise and crowds in cities. With the wife away, for shopping I pick the quietest time of the week, which is wednesday around 12:00 over here. Will be very happy when she returns in a couple of weeks and takes over this task again. ;D
And the space in that video, no room for any of my hobbies. You would have to use the TV as a monitor for your computer. :palm:
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I like when she goes back to what drew me to her channel in the first place; teardowns and demonstrations of obscure and obsolete electronics. The UFO nonsense, complaints about how life isn't how she wants it to be, linking old film instead of making content, are things that make me skip videos and look for other channels.
I do like the old film stuff occasionally, but I do have to wonder if it's damaging her channel. The numbers clearly aren't there, under 3k views fro almost every of those film videos. And they are being copyright stuck repeatedly, whcih means no monestisation, which means your channel doesn't prioritised.
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I like when she goes back to what drew me to her channel in the first place; teardowns and demonstrations of obscure and obsolete electronics. The UFO nonsense, complaints about how life isn't how she wants it to be, linking old film instead of making content, are things that make me skip videos and look for other channels.
I do like the old film stuff occasionally, but I do have to wonder if it's damaging her channel. The numbers clearly aren't there, under 3k views fro almost every of those film videos. And they are being copyright stuck repeatedly, whcih means no monestisation, which means your channel doesn't prioritised.
Far better to just link to a site that does have permission to show them. I was interested in them initially, but kept losing audio (presumably due to the copyright issue). Consequently I never add them to my "watch later" list any more.
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Far better to just link to a site that does have permission to show them. I was interested in them initially, but kept losing audio (presumably due to the copyright issue). Consequently I never add them to my "watch later" list any more.
I'd put them on a 2nd dedicated channel as a test and see if anything improves.
Fran refuses to use Odysee or any other alternative platform though, I have not been able to convince her to do this.
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Fran refuses to use Odysee or any other alternative platform though, I have not been able to convince her to do this.
Has she provided any rationale for this?
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Fran refuses to use Odysee or any other alternative platform though, I have not been able to convince her to do this.
Has she provided any rationale for this?
Fear of abuse on those platforms. Shame, I made a lot of money being an early adopter on LBRY/Odysee, I'm sure that would have helped her out.
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Fran refuses to use Odysee or any other alternative platform though, I have not been able to convince her to do this.
Has she provided any rationale for this?
Fear of abuse on those platforms. Shame, I made a lot of money being an early adopter on LBRY/Odysee, I'm sure that would have helped her out.
It strikes me as ludicrous how can someone fear "abuse" with comments on a platform.
Even so, if abuse is your fear, youtube is not any different: a few years ago I commented exactly this in one of her videos (diversify in other platforms such as Odysee) only to be shut down, dissed and cussed by other commenters.
She indeed fell hook, line and sinker on the propaganda against the "Alt-Youtube". Too bad.
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I come from the software industry and nothing here surprises me because I have seen it all and then much worse.
She's dealing with a lifetime of grave personal problems and everyone ignoring this needs to get off his progressive kool-aid.
(I hope this comment is not too out of line for what appears to be the official unsolicited advice thread :P)
Oh, and before I forget, death to America, of course.
This ride has only been getting crazier in recent years and take my word, it hasn't even reached the peak yet.
Something you would know if you cared to listen, or had it shouted at you all the time.
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Fran refuses to use Odysee or any other alternative platform though, I have not been able to convince her to do this.
Has she provided any rationale for this?
Fear of abuse on those platforms. Shame, I made a lot of money being an early adopter on LBRY/Odysee, I'm sure that would have helped her out.
But you are good at those kind of things. Not everybody is. One of my relatives has a bit of a specialist job and she often complains others are not good at it and no use helping her out. To her the job seems easy but it actually is quite complicated.
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Fran refuses to use Odysee or any other alternative platform though, I have not been able to convince her to do this.
Has she provided any rationale for this?
Fear of abuse on those platforms.
Well, what can we say. Nothing I guess. It seems to be one of her key deciding factors, be it for online platforms or for where she lives, and it sure is cutting her off from a lot of opportunities.
I don't know how justified those fears are. But as to online platforms, there's something slightly ironical about complaining about censorship yet appreciating the relative comfort this censorship provides.
You can't have it all.
Shame, I made a lot of money being an early adopter on LBRY/Odysee, I'm sure that would have helped her out.
I don't doubt that. Diversifying is always a good move anyway.
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It strikes me as ludicrous how can someone fear "abuse" with comments on a platform.
Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
I does take a special kind of person to be able to ignore this onslaught literally daily. This is why so many Youtube creater have to either quit or they take a break for "mental wellbeing".
Even so, if abuse is your fear, youtube is not any different: a few years ago I commented exactly this in one of her videos (diversify in other platforms such as Odysee) only to be shut down, dissed and cussed by other commenters.
Correct, Youtube is no different, in fact it's worse given the volume. Fran admitted she had to delete a ton of comment every day. She then got some mods to help her out, but I think now she's back to doing it herself. Odysee is actually a safer platform because of the "slime" feature. If enough people "slime" (thumbs down) a comment then they get hidden to the creator so you don't accidently see them. You can specifically click on then to see them. But I couldn't convince Fran of this benefit.
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I come from the software industry and nothing here surprises me because I have seen it all and then much worse.
She's dealing with a lifetime of grave personal problems and everyone ignoring this needs to get off his progressive kool-aid.
(I hope this comment is not too out of line for what appears to be the official unsolicited advice thread :P)
Sure, understandable, but unfortunately you don't get ahead in life and improve your situation by dwelling on this and making it your focus. It's basic life advice and success stuff when it comes down to it, you improve your life and succeed by taking active measures to improve your sitation and help yourself long term.
Right now I'm staring at a listing for a 70sqm office that's relatively cheap in the building that has my bunker. These places rarely come up and I'm deciding if I should take a gamble and buy it which could potentially benefit me in the future. e.g. if I decide to expand again with another employee or whatever. :-\
EDIT: Bugger it, I'm off to poke my head in the window now...
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Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
I does take a special kind of person to be able to ignore this onslaught literally daily. This is why so many Youtube creater have to either quit or they take a break for "mental wellbeing".
The death threats are strange to me, I could almost understand it (not excuse it) if the content were highly controversial, but for technical stuff? That's just crazy. Must be a lot of mentally unwell people out there in the world and it only takes a few.
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It strikes me as ludicrous how can someone fear "abuse" with comments on a platform.
Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
I does take a special kind of person to be able to ignore this onslaught literally daily. This is why so many Youtube creater have to either quit or they take a break for "mental wellbeing".
I am a creator (albeit small) and had my share of this.
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Shame, I made a lot of money being an early adopter on LBRY/Odysee, I'm sure that would have helped her out.
I don't doubt that. Diversifying is always a good move anyway.
Not exaggerating when I say 5 minutes work 4 years ago could have possibly netted her 10's of thousands of dollars and a large audience on an alternative platform.
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Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
I does take a special kind of person to be able to ignore this onslaught literally daily. This is why so many Youtube creater have to either quit or they take a break for "mental wellbeing".
The death threats are strange to me, I could almost understand it (not excuse it) if the content were highly controversial, but for technical stuff? That's just crazy. Must be a lot of mentally unwell people out there in the world and it only takes a few.
It is cheap to make such threats cloaked by the anonymous nature of internet - that tends to bring to the surface the fallen nature of mankind.
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Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
Yeah, I don't doubt that either. I've seen pretty distrurbing stuff and most creators seem confronted to this.
I think it's related to what I said about trolling with ChatGPT and trolling in general in the other thread. People are desperately trying to have an impact, often a negative one as it's usually much easier than trying to have a positive one. But how far it can go is absolutely mind-blowing.
There are teens committing suicide over repeated negative online comments/online harassment.
The way it shows how nasty some people can get, it's all pretty disturbing in fact. But you have to deal with it these days, unless you choose to be an 'online hermit'.
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You have to have thick skin on the internet.
Fortunately that has always come naturally to me. Someone can say anything they want to me online and it rolls off, as long as it's not a credible physical threat with the means to carry it out it doesn't bother me at all. Trolls are gonna troll.
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Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
I does take a special kind of person to be able to ignore this onslaught literally daily. This is why so many Youtube creater have to either quit or they take a break for "mental wellbeing".
The death threats are strange to me, I could almost understand it (not excuse it) if the content were highly controversial, but for technical stuff? That's just crazy. Must be a lot of mentally unwell people out there in the world and it only takes a few.
Of course there are crazies out there and I also suspect that any IRL threats that Dave receives are not for the technical part of his content.
It's 2023, what rock are you living under?
Then imagine that there are people whose whole nature is politicized and weaponized to an extent that it it's impossible to separate themselves from bullshit and drama if they wanted to.
That's not something that even Dave has to deal with, and as I said, things are only getting crazier with no end in sight at this point.
You have to have thick skin on the internet.
Yes, and there are distinct populations known for their infamously thin skins.
Maybe not a thread for what I think about it, but I got used to it and now I just roll my eyes at those still in denial.
I guess it's back to what I posted last year: you pay for the way this content is done, or bye.
I actually checked out that channel yesterday and saw titles like "getting tired" and "life after YouTube", well...
Being Internet Famous is maybe not the first priority of everyone.
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Of course there are crazies out there and I also suspect that any IRL threats that Dave receives are not for the technical part of his content.
Simply running this forum has solicited death threats :o
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Okay, but there had to be some motive, or not? :wtf:
Did you ever find out? A banned user? Competition with other forums? Didn't like the opinions about his fav multimeter? :-DD
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Didn't like the opinions about his fav multimeter? :-DD
Although not worth of death threats, but there is a very high level of vitriol cast at you if you criticise an unhinged soul's favourite brand.
Again, the anonimity and impersonality of the internet.
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It strikes me as ludicrous how can someone fear "abuse" with comments on a platform.
Unless you are a creator, you don't understand. We get so much hate, even death threats.
I does take a special kind of person to be able to ignore this onslaught literally daily. This is why so many Youtube creater have to either quit or they take a break for "mental wellbeing".
And it is nothing new. 20+ years ago I co-owned an online business phonebook (internet yellowpages). At some point we got a death threat from a guy because we listed his company... We where thinking we where doing people a favour with free basic listings :-// Ofcourse we removed the listing from the database and informed the police (who where hesitant to act because they wheren't taking internet very serious back in those days).
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Well the problem is that the cheapest home you can buy anywhere in the south of England for instance would be around £200,000. That is, in terms of a house that you could live in. It would not be big and would probably be in a rough area, but it's a place to live.
To buy that you would need a min. downpayment of £10,000 (if you have excellent credit score to get a 95% mortgage) plus around another £5,000 for solicitors and other costs. So say £15k plus you really should have an emergency fund on top of that. And you need an income of at least £44k at the maximum loan to salary ratio of 4.5x, but most banks like 4x, so assume £50k (~$60k).
So the 'cheap' house now requires a salary almost twice as high as the median income in this country (~£33k). A job a lot of people cannot expect to achieve as it requires skills they don't have and probably never will. The ironic thing is, the mortgage over 30 years would probably cost about the same as the rent, but it's not available without meeting the downpayment or loan to salary calculations. You can add cash to the purchase of the house, which is how a lot of people on lower incomes buy homes (usually inherited or given to them by parents) but if you're not lucky enough to have that, tough.
People get trapped renting. It's very easy to end up in this situation. I'm sure similar calculations apply for the US. Just think about an example $20/hour worker and think what kind of home they could buy on that wage, even if they were very frugal. OK, engineers on top salaries are doing fine but a society is going to struggle when some of the most essential workers are struggling to pay the rent and have nowhere to call home.
Sorry - I realise there has been much conversation on the thread since this post but 100% agree, for various reasons looking for a basic 2/3 bed property in the Midlands and £200k is right on the mark, nothing cheaper unless you want a renovation project and you're on the nail with necessary financial resources and salary - which is just out of reach of anyone without a dual income. The UK property market is nearly as nuts as US healthcare (apologies to US posters, but, guys, you know I'm right on that one :) )
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If many of the buyers for a 2/3 BR place are dual income (or single high-income), it seems unsurprising that the most desirable of such places would be bid up to the point where they were unaffordable for a typical single income.
Unless a vast surplus of desirable exists, single median income people looking to purchase a house also bid on by many families will likely have to sacrifice on some measures (location, condition, amenities, size, whatever).
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Sorry - I realise there has been much conversation on the thread since this post but 100% agree, for various reasons looking for a basic 2/3 bed property in the Midlands and £200k is right on the mark, nothing cheaper unless you want a renovation project and you're on the nail with necessary financial resources and salary - which is just out of reach of anyone without a dual income. The UK property market is nearly as nuts as US healthcare (apologies to US posters, but, guys, you know I'm right on that one :) )
The US is a very different market, there are literally unlimited very affordable places available, even within Fran's state of Pennsylvania, and even within downtown Philly itself. You just have to be willing to live there. I've posted links to many such property listings.
Fran has said in the past that she can afford to buy a property instead of rent, the problem is that she can't get a loan. And of course, the big elephant in the room, she refuses to consider anywhere apart from certain sections of downtown philly.
Was watching "house hunters" last night for the Mrs and a couple bought a very nice double story house for $140k on a river near a beach. We remarked that there is not a single house in all of Australia for that price, at least not anything decent. America is filled with so many large cities and towns that places like this are in abundance. Hard to move if you have kids and/or tied to a job etc, but if you don't have such issues then there is an abundance of choice.
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Unfortunately, it's going to be fairly easy predict when the next financial crisis will hit, just follow the Patreon graph.
https://graphtreon.com/creator/frantone (https://graphtreon.com/creator/frantone)
She published a sustaining income line, and it was just above 1800 Patrons.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4741943/#msg4741943 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/yet-another-franlab-crisis/msg4741943/#msg4741943)
Exact income per Patron will vary, but it's getting close to the level of the last fundraising drive.
Unfortunately even viral videos don't help much in terms in income. Even a 1M view video is only going to net a few thousand dollars. So you'd need many of those a year to make a difference.
Both Fran and I are in effectively the same position, our Youtube videos are basically just a vehicle to gain viewers so that we can derive income from other sources based on that audience, that is where the bulk of our income comes from, sources other than Youtube ad revenue. Fran has only Patreon though.
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Graphtreon put some recommended channel down the bottom of the page, Physics Girl was one, wow, what a boost! Went from 1k to 12k Patron in a matter of weeks.
Just checked, and this is the video, she's in a bad way :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vydgkCCXbTA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vydgkCCXbTA)
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Sorry - I realise there has been much conversation on the thread since this post but 100% agree, for various reasons looking for a basic 2/3 bed property in the Midlands and £200k is right on the mark, nothing cheaper unless you want a renovation project and you're on the nail with necessary financial resources and salary - which is just out of reach of anyone without a dual income. The UK property market is nearly as nuts as US healthcare (apologies to US posters, but, guys, you know I'm right on that one :) )
The US is a very different market, there are literally unlimited very affordable places available, even within Fran's state of Pennsylvania, and even within downtown Philly itself. You just have to be willing to live there. I've posted links to many such property listings.
Fran has said in the past that she can afford to buy a property instead of rent, the problem is that she can't get a loan. And of course, the big elephant in the room, she refuses to consider anywhere apart from certain sections of downtown philly.
Was watching "house hunters" last night for the Mrs and a couple bought a very nice double story house for $140k on a river near a beach. We remarked that there is not a single house in all of Australia for that price, at least not anything decent. America is filled with so many large cities and towns that places like this are in abundance. Hard to move if you have kids and/or tied to a job etc, but if you don't have such issues then there is an abundance of choice.
I'm not quite sure. Recently I went to the US and visited some family members in the process. Their home was crazy expensive even for Dutch standards while it was somewhere in the mountains and not exactly in the city center. The problem with the US is that everything is much further apart as well. Walking a few blocks in a suburb means walking along large plots of land and crossing insanely wide streets that add to the distance considerably. I really had to adjust the scaling of the maps in my mind; what is a short walk in a typical European city, is twice as far where I was in the US. IOW: I think the cheap places are cheap because anywhere you want/need to go takes a lot of time to travel.
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I'm not quite sure. Recently I went to the US and visited some family members in the process. Their home was crazy expensive even for Dutch standards while it was somewhere in the mountains and not exactly in the city center. The problem with the US is that everything is much further apart as well. Walking a few blocks in a suburb means walking along large plots of land and crossing insanely wide streets that add to the distance considerably. I really had to adjust the scaling of the maps in my mind; what is a short walk in a typical European city, is twice as far where I was in the US. IOW: I think the cheap places are cheap because anywhere you want/need to go takes a lot of time to travel.
Well that's always the tradeoff of course. In my case I can't/wouldn't move because I'm tied to the kids needs and also the Mrs's family is just around the corner.
Fran though has no such ties, as do many other people who have work from home or other flexible businesses.
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I'm not quite sure. Recently I went to the US and visited some family members in the process. Their home was crazy expensive even for Dutch standards while it was somewhere in the mountains and not exactly in the city center. The problem with the US is that everything is much further apart as well. Walking a few blocks in a suburb means walking along large plots of land and crossing insanely wide streets that add to the distance considerably. I really had to adjust the scaling of the maps in my mind; what is a short walk in a typical European city, is twice as far where I was in the US. IOW: I think the cheap places are cheap because anywhere you want/need to go takes a lot of time to travel.
Where do you need to go? I go days at a time without leaving my property, especially in the winter when the weather is unpleasant. I can order almost anything I need online, I live alone so I buy a lot of my food in bulk from Costco, frozen stuff that keeps a long time. I mostly only go to the grocery store for vegetables and dairy, maybe once a week or so and usually on my way home from going somewhere else. If I want to visit a friend I need to get in my car anyway, I don't know anybody that lives closer than a few miles from me, it can be faster go go 15 miles away on the highway than 3 miles through town and highway driving is usually less stressful. I can walk to shops downtown but in practice I rarely do except to exercise. I don't want to carry home bags of groceries or whatever. I don't really buy very much in general and have little use for local shops. If there was an electronics hobby store or surplus shop nearby I would go to that but there isn't.
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Where do you need to go? I go days at a time without leaving my property, especially in the winter when the weather is unpleasant. I can order almost anything I need online, I live alone so I buy a lot of my food in bulk from Costco, frozen stuff that keeps a long time. I mostly only go to the grocery store for vegetables and dairy, maybe once a week or so and usually on my way home from going somewhere else. If I want to visit a friend I need to get in my car anyway, I don't know anybody that lives closer than a few miles from me, it can be faster go go 15 miles away on the highway than 3 miles through town and highway driving is usually less stressful. I can walk to shops downtown but in practice I rarely do except to exercise. I don't want to carry home bags of groceries or whatever. I don't really buy very much in general and have little use for local shops. If there was an electronics hobby store or surplus shop nearby I would go to that but there isn't.
Everyone is different but I enjoy my walkable neighbourhood;
- Walk to the gym
- Walk to the swimming pool
- Go to the park to, well, walk around and look at the wildlife and get fresh air (10 minutes away from me). If I had a dog, great place to walk it too.
- Go to the shops when I'm in need of only a few items
- Take my car to the garage, when I need a service or something I can walk back
Sometimes I take one of those rental scooters if I need to.
But almost all of my day to day needs are within 10-20 mins walk. I do still drive to get grocery shopping etc. (because yes, carrying heavy bags home = not fun) but don't drive everywhere.
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My neighborhood is walkable, it has sidewalks and I go for a walk almost every day just to walk. I don't really need to walk to any particular destination, there's nowhere I need to go. Brick & mortar shops are a dying concept, I order virtually everything and it gets delivered. The only thing I go out and buy regularly is groceries and when I do I almost always get more than I want to carry. The other thing I sometimes go buy is stuff like lumber and building materials, which again I don't want to carry. I've never taken a car to a mechanic in my entire life, anything it needs I can do at home without leaving my house. I see little value in being able to walk to businesses although I can actually do that pretty easily from here, there's just not really anywhere I go that I'm going to get something I want to carry home by hand. Electronics shops don't exist anymore, computer shops are all gone, there's only one electronic surplus place in the region that I'm aware of and they sell online too. I have zero interest in the beauty supply shops, wine tasting places, overpriced trendy restaurants and other stuff that makes up the majority of retail in my city, it could all burn down and I wouldn't miss it a bit. In fact I'd welcome the open space.
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Similar story here, though I do not renew tires nor do any paint/bodywork at home; the equipment is just more than I want to deal with for as rare as those circumstances come up. Everything else, I do in the driveway. I'm in a city (Cambridge, MA), but in the outskirts of it (1, 2, and 3 family houses make up my section of the city; the nearest building over 5 stories is probably 3/4 mile away). I could walk to a handful of restaurants and there's a small shopping district filled with stores catering to people with some combination of way more money or way less economic sense.
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Graphtreon put some recommended channel down the bottom of the page, Physics Girl was one, wow, what a boost! Went from 1k to 12k Patron in a matter of weeks.
Just checked, and this is the video, she's in a bad way :(
I'm sorry to hear that and I sincerely hope she recovers soon.
That being said, I do find the video too dramatic and showing too much. Being ill is sad, and I really wish her well, but staging her health condition this way, not my thing.
Quite a few people have criticized Fran for exposing a bit too much of her issues and using that to raise some money, but this one looks much worse than what Fran ever did, in that regard.
And the Patreon face mask on an hospital bed? Really? :-X
Now I appreciate Physics Girl did not do it herself, and she was probably not even in a condition that would have allowed her to decide, so someone else did it for her, and this was this person's decision.
Anyway, wish her well.
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I'm not quite sure. Recently I went to the US and visited some family members in the process. Their home was crazy expensive even for Dutch standards while it was somewhere in the mountains and not exactly in the city center. The problem with the US is that everything is much further apart as well. Walking a few blocks in a suburb means walking along large plots of land and crossing insanely wide streets that add to the distance considerably. I really had to adjust the scaling of the maps in my mind; what is a short walk in a typical European city, is twice as far where I was in the US. IOW: I think the cheap places are cheap because anywhere you want/need to go takes a lot of time to travel.
Where do you need to go? I go days at a time without leaving my property, especially in the winter when the weather is unpleasant. I can order almost anything I need online, I live alone so I buy a lot of my food in bulk from Costco, frozen stuff that keeps a long time. I mostly only go to the grocery store for vegetables and dairy, maybe once a week or so and usually on my way home from going somewhere else. If I want to visit a friend I need to get in my car anyway, I don't know anybody that lives closer than a few miles from me, it can be faster go go 15 miles away on the highway than 3 miles through town and highway driving is usually less stressful. I can walk to shops downtown but in practice I rarely do except to exercise. I don't want to carry home bags of groceries or whatever. I don't really buy very much in general and have little use for local shops. If there was an electronics hobby store or surplus shop nearby I would go to that but there isn't.
I typically use my bicycle for destinations for short trips (including getting groceries). Or I just go cycling for a longer trip; there is so much variation in the landscape where I live that it sometimes is hard to choose where to cycle to. Also, a bicycle is pretty handy for long stuff as well. Try transporting long pieces of wood or pipes 4 meters (12 feet) long with a normal car...
Anyway, I wanted to go for a swim near the hotel in the US and on the map it looked like a pool was a few streets away but it was almost 40 minutes to walk. In the same time & distance you can walk through a vast piece of Paris for example.
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she refuses to consider anywhere apart from certain sections of downtown philly.
This is much worse that i thought... cant get more narrow in choice than that.
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Where do you need to go? I go days at a time without leaving my property, especially in the winter when the weather is unpleasant. I can order almost anything I need online, I live alone ... <snip>.
That is because you do not have a wife, she would want concerts, art and cat shows, a park nearby, perhaps a good restaurant and all that. As mine said, if a women does not have a female friend to talk to, she will get sick.
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Where do you need to go? I go days at a time without leaving my property, especially in the winter when the weather is unpleasant. I can order almost anything I need online, I live alone ... <snip>.
That is because you do not have a wife, she would want concerts, art and cat shows, a park nearby, perhaps a good restaurant and all that. As mine said, if a women does not have a female friend to talk to, she will get sick.
Quite the assumption don't you think? Not all women like the same things, there are plenty of rural women that share my intense dislike of urban things.
I have a girlfriend. Previously I had a different girlfriend for around a decade. We went out occasionally but most of our activities are at home. Not all women want to go to concerts and art shows. I like board games and puzzles, and watching movies at home. Go out to eat about once a month, a concert maybe once a year. The outings I am most interested in are camping trips which have to be some distance away since the whole point of camping is to disconnect and get out into the wilderness.
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Where do you need to go? I go days at a time without leaving my property, especially in the winter when the weather is unpleasant. I can order almost anything I need online, I live alone ... <snip>.
That is because you do not have a wife, she would want concerts, art and cat shows, a park nearby, perhaps a good restaurant and all that. As mine said, if a women does not have a female friend to talk to, she will get sick.
;D You know women can drive cars nowadays?
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she refuses to consider anywhere apart from certain sections of downtown philly.
This is much worse that i thought... cant get more narrow in choice than that.
It's basically what this entire 80 page thread has been about.
She rents four properties for the business (apartment/Franlab, workshop, and two storage units), and all of them have to be in downtown Philly, absolutely no exceptions. She has said she will progressively shut down the business instead of moving anything outside of Philly.
Even friends like me have tried to convince her there are options, but she has asked me and her community to stop trying to help.
Even my suggestions of specific places I've found in downtown Philly where she could consolidate to save cost have been shot down because she knows Philly and I don't. Fair enough I guess.
I really don't want her to have to shut down Franlab :(
The difference in approach with say Louis Rossmann who has moved several times and made a whole series about it, he's taken mine and other people's suggestions of places and has done tour videos and evaluates every possible option. Even I've done many videos (one just recently) evaluating various moving options. I'm always on the hunt "just in case" an exceptional deal comes along.
Fran's approach is that her current situation is already absolutely optimised and there is no other options available. If the Patreon money doesn't come in then things will get shut down, starting with the workshop, then storage, and then Franlab and she goes back a 9/5 job she doesn't want just to make ends meat.
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teaching an old dog new tricks. is when a donated digital oscilloscope in the lab, is a steep learning curve.
keep up the patreon donations as the show must go on! :popcorn:
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teaching an old dog new tricks. is when a donated digital oscilloscope in the lab, is a steep learning curve.
For those who don't get the reference:
https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxOf186Olp4344csY3i1wtEaJGcFGJUEvK (https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxOf186Olp4344csY3i1wtEaJGcFGJUEvK)
She obviously hasn't ecountered the EEVblog forum test equipment section before! :-DD
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Wait, did she actually take the scope video down completely?! Now I'm curious how bad the comments actually were...
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Wait, did she actually take the scope video down completely?! Now I'm curious how bad the comments actually were...
That's what I was wondering. I looked all over her YT channel and never found it.
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I think I just happened to be browsing yt when it posted, so I watched it... there was certainly a little bit of wanting to shout "you just need to do X!" but seemed like the typical learning curve for someone's first time using a digital scope, and didn't seem like it was likely to attract any more than the normal lectures on how you should be doing things. :-//
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Wait, did she actually take the scope video down completely?! Now I'm curious how bad the comments actually were...
There are two scopes videos, both still exist but set to Unlisted. Links still available to Patrons.
Browsing through the comments on both videos I can't see any problems, just people trying to help her to use various features and with some termination issues.
I commented on the first video that she missed the x1000 probe setting, which she corrected in the 2nd video.
Maybe there were some bad comments she deleted? But I think it was mostly that there were too many issues and she'd continue to get the same comments for years. That's pretty much my threashold for pulling a video, if I know that I'm still going to be getting emails and comments for years to come correcting me on things.
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Interesting video from Kurzgesagt about income sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x-i9z617z4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x-i9z617z4)
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I'm sorry to hear about FranLab being evicted. It can be an upsetting experience to face unexpected changes, particularly when they involve leaving a place you've called home for some time. While change may present challenges, it also presents new opportunities for growth and learning.
If Fran is considering moving, research different areas and neighborhoods to find one that meets her requirements and preferences. She could also reach out to local real estate agents or rental agencies for assistance in finding a suitable residence.
Fran must prioritize taking care of herself during this challenging time, whether that means engaging in self-care activities like exercising, meditation or spending quality time with loved ones. She could also consider seeking professional help from a therapist or counselor for additional support and advice.
I wish Fran the very best as she navigates this difficult period and wish her a new, peaceful place to call home.
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Another ChatGPT bot banned.
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After a while you start to realize how they work and write... OK back to the show.
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Some Patreon videos are up.
Fran is spending a few weeks in Washington DC doing research and seems to be really enjoying herself.
Any affordable live/work places there I wonder?
Although I suspect DC falls under the "nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there" category?
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DC proper falls into exactly that category for me, but there are some great livable suburbs within a commuting ring around DC.
I seriously doubt any of the nice ones are cheaper than Philly, though, because there’s a lot more money and power surrounding the White House than the Liberty Bell.
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IMHO it's hard to do worse than Philly except maybe Detroit or some other similar economically depressed former industrial crime ridden ghetto. There are a bunch of urban areas like that well known for being dangerous and dirty.
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Some Patreon videos are up.
Fran is spending a few weeks in Washington DC doing research and seems to be really enjoying herself.
Any affordable live/work places there I wonder?
Although I suspect DC falls under the "nice place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there" category?
What the above suggests to me, rather than the fact she should consider Washington DC for a place to live, is that she should take this experience as a starting point to go and visit more areas in the US in the coming months, spending maybe a couple weeks for each. That may not only help her find a new place to live, but also expand her horizons which may kickstart her out of the relative rut she appears to have been stuck in for a while.
Just a thought, not meaning to tell her what she has to do or not.
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DC proper falls into exactly that category for me, but there are some great livable suburbs within a commuting ring around DC.
Nice house for $250k near the university of Maryland
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5021-Lakeland-Rd-College-Park-MD-20740/37566243_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5021-Lakeland-Rd-College-Park-MD-20740/37566243_zpid/?)
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DC proper falls into exactly that category for me, but there are some great livable suburbs within a commuting ring around DC.
I seriously doubt any of the nice ones are cheaper than Philly, though, because there’s a lot more money and power surrounding the White House than the Liberty Bell.
Doesn't DC have surprisingly high rates of violent crime? Like it's the violent capital of the US for some reason - not sure if that's due to it being all city or genuine evidence of a problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_crime_rate
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Comparing DC to states doesn't really make sense for most statistics (and I think you'll find the crime rates are a bit higher than average, maybe, but not really much if compared to similar sized cities.)
Despite the weird legal/political structure, it's really more like a city -- its total land area is less than 5% that of the smallest state.
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A list of crime by state doesn't tell you the full story either, in some states the bulk of the crime occurs in a few specific urban cities, or even specific areas of specific cities. Philly is one such area. DC is apparently pretty bad but I've never been there and don't know anyone that has lived there.
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Comparing DC to states doesn't really make sense for most statistics (and I think you'll find the crime rates are a bit higher than average, maybe, but not really much if compared to similar sized cities.)
Despite the weird legal/political structure, it's really more like a city -- its total land area is less than 5% that of the smallest state.
Yes, DC is essentially a city, so doesn't really make sense to comparing with states. Often it doesn't make such sense to compare states either, as there are often large variability in crime in various cities within the one state.
As SiliconWizard said, you can live not far from what is considered a major crime riden city in outer suburbs or whatveer and not have any of the problem. Then you get the benefit of access to the culturally interesting places that city has to offer. DC has tons for obvious reasons relevant to Fran, whcih is why she is spending two weeks there doing research.
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A list of crime by state doesn't tell you the full story either, in some states the bulk of the crime occurs in a few specific urban cities, or even specific areas of specific cities. Philly is one such area. DC is apparently pretty bad but I've never been there and don't know anyone that has lived there.
I spent a few days in DC and never saw anything that would have made me feel unsafe. But that was almost 20 years ago now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
DC is actually 30th on the list of crime rated cities.
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I spent a few days in DC and never saw anything that would have made me feel unsafe. But that was almost 20 years ago now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
DC is actually 30th on the list of crime rated cities.
20 years can make a big difference. 20 years ago I would have told you Seattle was safe, even 10 or even 5 years ago it was not bad at all, but in just the past 3-4 years it has really gone downhill. The homeless problem is out of control, and the bulk of the homeless problem is really a drug addiction and mental illness problem. The "solution" has been to leave them alone to their own devices which has resulted in homeless people coming from all over and settling where their behavior is tolerated. When you have a large mass of opiate addicted junkies living on the street with no means to support themselves it's no wonder that catalytic converter theft, car breakins, business breakins, shoplifting and robbery have flourished. The amount of graffiti is crazy and just makes the place look like a dump, and I regularly see articles about another business closing up shop and shutting down or moving away From what I've seen, a similar thing has happened in many of the large cities in this country. It's to the point where I'm not even comfortable parking my car in much of downtown, I don't want someone to smash a window looking for loose change or valuables.
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What the above suggests to me, rather than the fact she should consider Washington DC for a place to live, is that she should take this experience as a starting point to go and visit more areas in the US in the coming months, spending maybe a couple weeks for each. That may not only help her find a new place to live, but also expand her horizons which may kickstart her out of the relative rut she appears to have been stuck in for a while.
Just a thought, not meaning to tell her what she has to do or not.
I'd certainly keep my options open in her position. Even if the Patreon income was making ends meat (it's currently not). The odds of that continuing is not very high, and the odds of having to move again is all but guaranteed. She lasted 6 months in FranLab 2.0 before she got booted out even though she had a 6 year lease. And IIRC that was her 18th move :o
And she said she was incredibly lucky to find the current FranLab 3.0 that has an acceptable cost, location, and required features. I wouldn't rely on that luck happening again. Best to have a backup plan.
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I spent a few days in DC and never saw anything that would have made me feel unsafe. But that was almost 20 years ago now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
DC is actually 30th on the list of crime rated cities.
20 years can make a big difference. 20 years ago I would have told you Seattle was safe, even 10 or even 5 years ago it was not bad at all, but in just the past 3-4 years it has really gone downhill.
Yep, I've been seeing that happen in real time in the US news and personal commentary reports.
I used to love San Francisco for example, have been there twice. But in the last 5 years it's spiralled into what looks like a hell hole. Recent local governments have let some places go to hell with the whole BLM "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" thing. Louis Rossmann of course documented that in New York city, but even that wasn't as bad as some other cities.
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Yep, I've been seeing that happen in real time in the US news and personal commentary reports.
I used to love San Francisco for example, have been there twice. But in the last 5 years it's spiralled into what looks like a hell hole. Recent local governments have let some places go to hell with the whole BLM "Fiery but mostly peaceful protests" thing. Louis Rossmann of course documented that in New York city, but even that wasn't as bad as some other cities.
It's really unfortunate, I've been to San Francisco several times myself and thought it was a neat place, surprisingly cold, but neat. It's been about 10 years since I was there and now I don't think I'd even want to go. NYC was a crap hole for a while, but Giuliani (before he got old and seems to have turned into a nut) did what I thought was a pretty stellar job cleaning it up. Unfortunately it looks like it has mostly reverted to its previous state. I don't claim to have a solution, but I see no compassion in enabling the homeless population to live in squalor while slowly poisoning themselves with deadly drugs and inflicting a tremendous amount of collateral damage. The homeless encampments are a constant source of property crime, assault, fires, even homicides. The city leaders stand around with their thumb up their asses talking about how they're going to clean up the camps as soon as possible which is a laugh since as soon as possible was years ago. I don't want to drag politics into this any more than I already have, but now we have a regional homeless authority created ostensibly to solve the problem and they are asking for an eye watering $12 BILLION dollars for 5 years in order to provide permanent housing to all the homeless people in King County. It should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain that just giving free housing to a bunch of addicts without forcing them into treatment and providing services with a goal toward employment and becoming productive members of society is doomed to fail. The junkies will trash the taxpayer funded housing in short order, and more homeless will continue to migrate from the areas where their lifestyle is less tolerated. I have reached the conclusion that these organizations don't actually want to solve the problem, they want to make a living off it. The homeless activists aren't actually helping anyone, they're just enabling, and it's costing all of us.
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If crime stats are per capita and don't account for tourists, it pushes up crime stats in areas with lots of tourism.
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The homeless activists aren't actually helping anyone, they're just enabling, and it's costing all of us.
They are helping themselves and their friends live off the tax payers. It's extortion: pay me to give 'free' stuff to my friends or else they'll cause problems.
I think a better solution would be exponentially increasing sentences for repeat offenders. Separate the really awful people from the 'down on their luck' people and it should be easier to get them back on their feet.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ytHZdorMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ytHZdorMc)
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I think a better solution would be exponentially increasing sentences for repeat offenders. Separate the really awful people from the 'down on their luck' people and it should be easier to get them back on their feet.
What's the annual cost of a prison cell? ISTR it's somewhere around $25-30k/year in the US. A lot of money: it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison. Which is more or less what Finland does to great success (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Finland) amongst other countries.
But the US persists with this notion that criminals go away if you just wring them through the prison system enough times. It doesn't work, it never will, and it just makes things worse. Having almost 1% of the population in prison at any one time is absurd. There is no single US state with less people in prison than any European nation and the US is ahead of most dictatorships. Oh, but it has to persist because it's cheap labour for the state and changes election demographics too (felons can't vote, after all.)
Yes, there are some people who deserve to be in prison, and there are some people who need to be in prison for the rest of their lives because of the danger they pose. These people are a tiny fraction of the actual prison population though and if people were afforded the proper opportunities in life they wouldn't be stuck in a system which is inhumane and ineffective.
/rant
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it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison.
Technically, in prison they can't do things they can do if they have money and a flat, and freedom to use them.
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What's the annual cost of a prison cell? ISTR it's somewhere around $25-30k/year in the US. A lot of money: it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison. Which is more or less what Finland does to great success (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Finland) amongst other countries.
Yeah, give them a basic income so they have more money to buy drugs and pass out on the sidewalk :palm:
I don't understand this fantasy that homeless people are all just poor downtrodden folks that have hit hard times and ended up on the street and that if only they had a place to call home they'd be back on their feet and functioning members of society. Unfortunately it's just that, a fantasy. I don't know if it's the same in other countries but the US shut down the mental institutions and never really replaced them with anything so the patients that had nowhere to go were dumped out on the street. Many of those self medicate and become addicts, and many people that are not mentally ill spiral down into drug use and their addiction causes them to become homeless. Opiates in particular are incredibly powerful, a person that is addicted to heroin doesn't care about having a job, they don't care about their family, their friends, their well being, the only thing they care about is getting their next fix. These are people that cannot help themselves, the only solution is to force them into addiction treatment and then some of them could potentially get a job and take care of themselves. The USA is not Finland. For the people that really want help, we have all sorts of resources to help them. But when you actually look at the data, something like 80% of the homeless in Seattle (where I happen to be) turn down offers for housing, they prefer to "camp", it's their chosen lifestyle. They can steal anything they need virtually free of consequences, they don't have to follow any rules, they can get high all day long, they can do whatever they want. Our approach to the problem doesn't solve anything, it only enables them.
$30k a year is jack squat in the large cities where this is a problem, it's not enough to live on except maybe in a dumpy high crime low income apartment. The cost of jailing a person is also not the entire picture, the crimes they commit have an enormous cost to society. Just last week in Seattle a homeless man with a lengthy rap sheet broke into a boat storage facility and deliberately set a building full of boats on fire, the incident cased a massive fire department response and resulted in the total destruction of over $8 Million dollars worth of boats people were storing there, plus the loss of the structure. It would have been FAR better for everyone involved if this man had been in jail where he belongs, and probably better for him too since he would have no choice but to get treatment for his mental illness and/or drug used. This is only one incident, there are countless others. Seattle alone has spent over $1 Billion in recent years on the homeless problem and the only thing they have to show for it is a massive increase in the number of homeless people (they migrate here for the benefits, duh) and now the regional homeless authority wants a stagging $12 Billion and the mayor is trying to pass a property tax to collect nearly another billion dolllars. No, just NO. I work for a living, I dont want my limited money going to support people that could work but don't want to. Once all the career criminals are in prison and the junkies are in treatment and the mentally ill are in treatment then we can talk about how to help the handful that are left over.
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What's the annual cost of a prison cell? ISTR it's somewhere around $25-30k/year in the US. A lot of money: it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison. Which is more or less what Finland does to great success (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Finland) amongst other countries.
Yeah, give them a basic income so they have more money to buy drugs and pass out on the sidewalk :palm:
I don't understand this fantasy that homeless people are all just poor downtrodden folks that have hit hard times and ended up on the street and that if only they had a place to call home they'd be back on their feet and functioning members of society. Unfortunately it's just that, a fantasy. I don't know if it's the same in other countries but the US shut down the mental institutions and never really replaced them with anything so the patients that had nowhere to go were dumped out on the street. Many of those self medicate and become addicts, and many people that are not mentally ill spiral down into drug use and their addiction causes them to become homeless. Opiates in particular are incredibly powerful, a person that is addicted to heroin doesn't care about having a job, they don't care about their family, their friends, their well being, the only thing they care about is getting their next fix. These are people that cannot help themselves, the only solution is to force them into addiction treatment and then some of them could potentially get a job and take care of themselves. The USA is not Finland. For the people that really want help, we have all sorts of resources to help them. But when you actually look at the data, something like 80% of the homeless in Seattle (where I happen to be) turn down offers for housing, they prefer to "camp", it's their chosen lifestyle. They can steal anything they need virtually free of consequences, they don't have to follow any rules, they can get high all day long, they can do whatever they want. Our approach to the problem doesn't solve anything, it only enables them.
$30k a year is jack squat in the large cities where this is a problem, it's not enough to live on except maybe in a dumpy high crime low income apartment. The cost of jailing a person is also not the entire picture, the crimes they commit have an enormous cost to society. Just last week in Seattle a homeless man with a lengthy rap sheet broke into a boat storage facility and deliberately set a building full of boats on fire, the incident cased a massive fire department response and resulted in the total destruction of over $8 Million dollars worth of boats people were storing there, plus the loss of the structure. It would have been FAR better for everyone involved if this man had been in jail where he belongs
No, people like this belong in a mental institution (like you started with) where they get the treatment they need! It is of no use to put people in jail without addressing their problems properly. But it takes some people higher up to understand their problems and how to address these problems the right way. Putting mental patients between criminals in jail is only making things worse. I don't know how things are setup in the US if in the NL you can end up being convicted to be treated for mental problems in case of criminal behaviour and (typically) you only get out if you are cured.
However, there are quite a few people that prefer to have a homeless lifestyle and don't bother anyone. I'd say: leave those as they are.
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What's the annual cost of a prison cell? ISTR it's somewhere around $25-30k/year in the US. A lot of money: it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison.
You state that as if it is fact even though you are very likely to be wrong.
$30k is like 3 stolen bikes or 1 stolen car, 1 trashed rental home, 1/10 of an arson attack, 1 violent attack leading to loss of work, etc. People impose those costs to society many many times per year. Some have dozens of convictions and keep getting short sentences.
Think of the value of goods they destroy, the cost of police, lawyers, judges, healthcare workers, security system installers, fence builders, auto repairs, fire fighters, etc.
They give free homes, food, drugs and welfare out here. It is horrific. Every time they open supportive housing, the neighborhood turns into zombieland and a hot spot appears on the crime map. You imply it would erradicate crime but it doesn't even reduce it. It actually increases it.
Finland is not comparible because it is a cold climate. Even just within Canada there are different homeless populations that are attributed to different climates.
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No, people like this belong in a mental institution (like you started with) where they get the treatment they need! It is of no use of put people in jail without addressing their problems properly. There are quite a few people that prefer to have a homeless lifestyle and don't bother anyone. I'd say: leave those as they are.
But they do bother people. They shoplift and break into cars, they leave mountains of trash all over the place, they cover the sidewalks with tents and line the streets with dilapidated RVs. They piss and shit all over the sidewalks and alleys, it's a complete mess.
Don't take my word for it though, visit Seattle or San Francisco, Los Angeles or Chicago, etc and see for yourself. You won't even notice the old fashioned hobos that keep out of trouble, there are junkies everywhere, I've seen people sitting on the bench in front of my office smoking crack out of a glass pipe in broad daylight. I see people passed out on sidewalks, used needles and condoms and trash littering public parks, the area around the courthouse is so bad that for a while there were frequent assaults and there as one guy that had something like 77 arrests and he was still out assaulting people. One of them attacked and killed a dog that some innocent person was walking on a leash, Capital Hill has had more shootings already this year than in the entirety of 2022, it's out of control and it's just getting worse and worse. The focus has been entirely on providing housing and perks with homeless advocates pushing for them to just be left alone. The bad guys aren't being arrested and aren't being kept locked up if they are, the junkies aren't being put into treatment, the mentally ill aren't getting treatment for that, and they're all just mixed together so it's hard to even know what's what. They need to be picked up, locked up, sorted, and treated as needed rather than just ignored and left to their own devices. It's frustrating that I have to follow laws but there is this other group that can do whatever they want, seemingly without consequences. I've been in the hardware store more than once and seen a homeless guy walk right out with a cart full of stuff simply ignoring the employees telling him to stop and I wonder why I bother to pay for my own stuff. The current approach is not working, period, and I refuse to support spending another dime until there is transparency, accountability, and until we acknowledge that at least a portion of them belong in prison. Treat them first, then if they are able to take care of themselves to some degree assist them in finding housing which is monitored so they don't fall right back into the cycle of drug abuse.
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What's the annual cost of a prison cell? ISTR it's somewhere around $25-30k/year in the US. A lot of money: it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison.
You state that as if it is fact even though you are very likely to be wrong.
$30k is like 3 stolen bikes or 1 stolen car, 1 trashed rental home, 1/10 of an arson attack, 1 violent attack leading to loss of work, etc. People impose those costs to society many many times per year. Some have dozens of convictions and keep getting short sentences.
Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
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Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
Which is what exactly?
I don't have the data in front of me so take this part with a grain of salt but I read somewhere that an estimated 70% of the US prison population has a cluster B personality disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder is one of the most common. This is a brain disorder that causes among other things a complete inability to feel empathy, they are hardwired to be self absorbed and care only about themselves, they can't be fixed.
I do agree that far too many people are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses and I think there needs to be a lot more emphasis on treatment, but there is not, there is nothing to compel them into treatment and sobriety. I also think that it is ridiculous that there are people with 20, 30, 40 or more convictions that are still free. I believe in second chances, but at some point you have to acknowledge that someone is just not going to change, you can't save them all. The purpose of jail is not so much punishment or rehabilitation as it is for protecting the rest of society from certain people that just can't or won't play by the rules.
Other countries have different cultures and different environments, it doesn't work to project one's own culture onto people in some other area and assume that the same solutions will work.
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What's the annual cost of a prison cell? ISTR it's somewhere around $25-30k/year in the US. A lot of money: it would be cheaper to give these people a universal basic income and a flat rather than put them in prison.
You state that as if it is fact even though you are very likely to be wrong.
$30k is like 3 stolen bikes or 1 stolen car, 1 trashed rental home, 1/10 of an arson attack, 1 violent attack leading to loss of work, etc. People impose those costs to society many many times per year. Some have dozens of convictions and keep getting short sentences.
Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
No, it shows that giving repeat offenders free reign to offend repeatidly is much more expensive than locking them up in jail, rehab, treatment or where ever.
Letting them do drugs and crime isn't helping them either. We mind as well reduce the costs and harm they cause to others. If we can help them become decent in the process, that's a bonus.
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Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
Which is what exactly?
I don't have the data in front of me so take this part with a grain of salt but I read somewhere that an estimated 70% of the US prison population has a cluster B personality disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder is one of the most common. This is a brain disorder that causes among other things a complete inability to feel empathy, they are hardwired to be self absorbed and care only about themselves, they can't be fixed.
I do agree that far too many people are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses and I think there needs to be a lot more emphasis on treatment, but there is not, there is nothing to compel them into treatment and sobriety. I also think that it is ridiculous that there are people with 20, 30, 40 or more convictions that are still free. I believe in second chances, but at some point you have to acknowledge that someone is just not going to change, you can't save them all. The purpose of jail is not so much punishment or rehabilitation as it is for protecting the rest of society from certain people that just can't or won't play by the rules.
Other countries have different cultures and different environments, it doesn't work to project one's own culture onto people in some other area and assume that the same solutions will work.
What a load of complete codswallop!
The USA has some of the WORST public health and Social backups services and tops the Prison rates on a worldwide basis. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country
There is a correlation here and it starts with acknowledging what causes a lot of the problems of Crime, Drugs, Social and Mental Health issues. Trying to blanket blame 'drugs' is a complete load of :bullshit:
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Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
Use violent criminals for medical experimentation, then it would be the healthcare system that pays for their housing in such a way that most would be happy to pay. Instead of being a resource drain on society, they'll effectively be forced to give back. Even for those who think the life of a criminal is worth as much as an innocent person's life, the sacrifice of just one criminal could save thousands of innocent lives in the future.
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How about the large pharma corps pay for dealing with the current opiates problem that they caused by encouraging the overprescription of so called medicines,and whilst there make all drugs legal, treat them like those legal drugs,alcohol and nicotine.
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What a load of complete codswallop!
The USA has some of the WORST public health and Social backups services and tops the Prison rates on a worldwide basis. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country
There is a correlation here and it starts with acknowledging what causes a lot of the problems of Crime, Drugs, Social and Mental Health issues. Trying to blanket blame 'drugs' is a complete load of :bullshit:
So I'll repeat the question, which is what exactly? What exactly is the cause of the crimes and problems? And how much time have you personally spent in the USA studying the situation we have here? Please point out specifically what I said that is incorrect and provide the correct information.
I'm not making assumptions about how things work in your country and do not feel qualified to comment on it, why do you feel qualified to comment on mine?
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Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
Which is what exactly?
I don't have the data in front of me so take this part with a grain of salt but I read somewhere that an estimated 70% of the US prison population has a cluster B personality disorder, Antisocial Personality Disorder is one of the most common. This is a brain disorder that causes among other things a complete inability to feel empathy, they are hardwired to be self absorbed and care only about themselves, they can't be fixed.
I do agree that far too many people are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses and I think there needs to be a lot more emphasis on treatment, but there is not, there is nothing to compel them into treatment and sobriety. I also think that it is ridiculous that there are people with 20, 30, 40 or more convictions that are still free. I believe in second chances, but at some point you have to acknowledge that someone is just not going to change, you can't save them all. The purpose of jail is not so much punishment or rehabilitation as it is for protecting the rest of society from certain people that just can't or won't play by the rules.
But now you are basically saying prisons are human waste dumps. Not to attack you personally, but it more or less comes down to it.
Other countries have different cultures and different environments, it doesn't work to project one's own culture onto people in some other area and assume that the same solutions will work.
If it is a cultural thing then it needs to change. The NL got a lot of flack (also from people from the US) due to black Pete, a tradition which can be traced back to 1100 BC... but nowadays it is somehow considered racist and 'we' changed it. So if the NL can change a tradition that has been part of our culture for over 3000 years, the US certainly can change their culture of not caring for people obviously in need.
In the end you can't deny the facts that the US has an excessively large portion of the population behind bars and some areas have extreme criminality rates. Given the fact that a significant portion of the US citizens (and more so the ones that have political power) stem from Europe, it makes sense to compare with Europe. You could expect that some of the European culture remained beyond St Patrick's day. However, such a bad situation where it comes to crime & imprissonment doesn't exist in Europe. So where did the US go wrong? How does such a bad situation become acceptable to a society?
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Easter is more then a long weekend bunny's eggs & a chocolate binge.
indeed,its another party stolen from the pagans and used in the big book of fairy tales.Even ian hunter jumped on the band wagon
https://youtu.be/yKmvTcSzcE8
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[...] What exactly is the cause of the crimes and problems?
The problems in the US wrt to homelessness would be:
- Lack of affordable healthcare, meaning that any significant mental illness, depression, pain, or other condition making it hard or impossible to work means it's very easy to fall off the wagon.
- As above but then seeking drugs (opioids typically) from dodgy doctors who prescribed them because they were getting kickbacks from big pharma or bribed by desperate patients. Alcohol could also be involved, the US has very cheap alcohol in many states and limited resources to deal with alcoholism.
- Those people then being unable to afford the opioid script (due to loss of income) or alcohol or whatever other coping mechanism they have, and therefore going to harder street drugs like heroin and meth, which have painkilling effects but obviously other significant side effects. Due to these drugs being typically cut with other hazardous substances further illness or dependency can develop. Crimes may be committed to ensure income for these drugs, as withdrawal from harder opioids is no joke (can be fatal).
- The lack of a coherent drug policy, basically just "drugs are illegal and possession of drugs is illegal", making it a crime to possess drugs even just for personal use. These people then end up in the legal system.
- The lack of a coherent housing policy, so if you become unable to afford rent or mortgage, you are just homeless. Try getting a job or bank account without a fixed address - it is incredibly difficult in most countries, including the UK.
- Even if you do manage to get clean through sheer willpower (some states do fund drug rehab) you are going to find it incredibly hard to get a decent job once you've got to this situation, because employers don't want to hire ex-cons. My understanding is that most criminal records are never expunged in the US, and even if you do have it expunged from your official record, you do still have to declare this to the employer. Comparably in the UK, for all but the most serious offences, a basic criminal record check will not show history more than 6 years ago.
- Combine parenthood with this and it's very easy for children to be born to single parent families or broken households, and all the data shows kids in single parent families have worse outcomes than those with two parents.
Not every country gets these things right, the US is not alone. However, the best countries understand that people are fallible, and that given the right care and attention, most people will end up as good, contributing members of society. It is absolutely the case that there are some people that will steal and commit crimes regardless and I would agree that the UK fails to properly deal with repeat troublesome offenders (as well as the US). However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to fix whomever you can.
There are a lot of studies that have analysed why people become drug addicts. It's not usually moral failing or lust or anything like that, but loss of family structure, illness and income are usually triggers.
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Which simply indicates that putting people in prison is a waste of money as well and society as a whole isn't capable of addressing the underlying problem.
Use violent criminals for medical experimentation, then it would be the healthcare system that pays for their housing in such a way that most would be happy to pay. Instead of being a resource drain on society, they'll effectively be forced to give back. Even for those who think the life of a criminal is worth as much as an innocent person's life, the sacrifice of just one criminal could save thousands of innocent lives in the future.
That's what we used to do thousands of years ago and up to relatively recently, like in the USSR and I think in Germany during WWII... just that they considered political opponents to be dangerous criminals, but who are we to judge.
Recent history has shown that we could do this even with perfectly innocent citizens, anyway. So why care.
I don't know for sure what we should do with criminals (not a simple question), but I'm not too keen on this kind of stuff. It's like keeping your principles and values even when the other has not.
So, yeah. Dunno.
:popcorn:
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loss of Christianity is at the root cause of most social problems :'(
as a nation moves away from God, people become more selfish & greedy.
Easter is more then a long weekend bunny's eggs & a chocolate binge.
I think I contributed to derailling this thread and for that I apologize but this is way off topic and should be moved to it's own thread. Preferably on a different forum.
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I'm concerned for Franlab again.
Patreon numbers look like they have declined to the same level that prompted the last call for increased funding. Although this doesn't say what the total funding is, it may still be high enough if the existing Patrons have upped their pledges.
Youtube views consistent, but only one 6 digit viral hit recently. Not that Youtube income really brings in any major income anyway.
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And both myself and Electroboom have seen rather large continual drop-off in Patrons. Maybe Patreon is starting to decline from being "the thing"?
If so Fran might strugle to maintain Patrons regardless over the coming years.
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When you look at the brain melting utter crap on youtube getting tens of millions of views on youtube, then the small numbers of views for videos that might actually help the human race advance further in to the future it is depressing.
It seems the answer is Electroboom and EEVBlog and others need to get some implants and make a video of them running their house by cobbling together a HDD and an AAA battery with their new tits outs and have their mouth open and they will get their tens or hundreds of millions of views.
The depravity of youtube really opens the eyes. What they allow and disallow on their platform really shows what a bad corporation they are.
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When you look at the brain melting utter crap on youtube getting tens of millions of views on youtube, then the small numbers of views for videos that might actually help the human race advance further in to the future it is depressing.
It seems the answer is Electroboom and EEVBlog and others need to get some implants and make a video of them running their house by cobbling together a HDD and an AAA battery with their new tits outs and have their mouth open and they will get their tens or hundreds of millions of views.
The depravity of youtube really opens the eyes. What they allow and disallow on their platform really shows what a bad corporation they are.
That's really nothing new. Freak shows have not been politically correct in a long time, but they were one of the more popular parts of travelling circus shows when they existed. Entertainment tends to cater to the lowest common denominator, it's the reason there's so much "reality" trash on TV, at least there was the last time I tried watching TV.
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Nonsense. Everyone knows it's about red mercury and graphene perpetual energy motors. That's where the big numbers are at!
Quote from: .RC. on Today at 20:35:03 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=143144.msg4844903#msg4844903)It seems the answer is Electroboom and EEVBlog and others need to get some implants and make a video of them running their house by cobbling together a HDD and an AAA battery with their new tits outs and have their mouth open and they will get their tens or hundreds of millions of views.
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Entertainment tends to cater to the lowest common denominator, ...
It caters to what brings in the dollars. Whether or not that is also the LCD is purely a personal value judgement.
I've heard children's toys unboxing is quite lucrative. Is it also the LCD? I say no.
I watch YT channels you'd likely dismiss as LCD stuff. I'd agree I could watch less of it but I enjoy watching heavy machinery pushing dirt.
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And both myself and Electroboom have seen rather large continual drop-off in Patrons. Maybe Patreon is starting to decline from being "the thing"?
If so Fran might strugle to maintain Patrons regardless over the coming years.
It looks to me like the number of Patrons is not declining nearly as much as the revenue. So it may be patrons with less disposable income are paring back expenditure. Everyone is feeling squeezed.
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Everyone is feeling squeezed.
Rogered is a better description. ;)
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But it's not Slo-Mo Joe's fault. He said so. :horse:
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Entertainment tends to cater to the lowest common denominator, ...
It caters to what brings in the dollars.
I just tweeted today:
From my recent video stats it's clear that people only like reviews of cheap shit, debunkings, and oddball stuff like putting 283 double adapters in series.
The rest of the content, meh.
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And both myself and Electroboom have seen rather large continual drop-off in Patrons. Maybe Patreon is starting to decline from being "the thing"?
If so Fran might strugle to maintain Patrons regardless over the coming years.
It looks to me like the number of Patrons is not declining nearly as much as the revenue. So it may be patrons with less disposable income are paring back expenditure. Everyone is feeling squeezed.
Only the creator knows the exact revenue. Fran's income could still be the same, but I doubt it. As you say, people are feeling squeezed, so I'd expect some who upped their pledge last time to drop that back a bit, if not entirely. As a full time creator I have to plan for Patreon to possibly go to zero, or at least drop drastically coming into a recession.
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I just tweeted today:
From my recent video stats it's clear that people only like reviews of cheap shit, debunkings, and oddball stuff like putting 283 double adapters in series.
The rest of the content, meh.
Big Clive seems to do alright with reviews of cheap things. There's reviews of cheap stuff available just to mock it for being cheap, which isn't interesting. I like to find out if it is acceptably safe and functional notwithstanding the low price. I like to find a good value match between my use case and cheap.
I can go without the string of double adapters, that's pretty low-brow. But if there's smoke, noise and flames then count me in.
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Big Clive doesn't depend on Youtube revenue. In fact, he's not even trying to make money at it so far as I can tell...he just likes doing it.
Fran has set up her life so she's almost totally dependent on her social media revenue and donations. And the banks were probably wise to refuse to consider that a dependable income stream.
Huge difference.
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Seriously we are now 4 years into this and everything Fran has remained the same. Intransigence on location, life and way to close to her own belief in direction on YouTube to see there is a basic set of problems.
NO ONE is owed a living and if you can't do a job people are happy with then you either change or get a new job!
Repeating this same rubbish here every few months here does no more than undermine any remaining credibility she has if anyone bothers to do a basic search and maybe it is time it went away or at a minimum somewhere away from the general public.
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Big Clive doesn't depend on Youtube revenue. In fact, he's not even trying to make money at it so far as I can tell...he just likes doing it.
He does make a good amount from Patreon though. Likely close to 6 figures a year.
Fran has set up her life so she's almost totally dependent on her social media revenue and donations.
It's a tight rope, but hats off, she's made it work.
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Seriously we are now 4 years into this ...
Clearly there are deeeeeply infatuated people here, hence this never ending discussion about Fran. :-//
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The depravity of youtube really opens the eyes. What they allow and disallow on their platform really shows what a bad corporation they are.
It's more about the depravity of the average human, corps are run by humans with the extra motivation for profit which will drive them to do anything not illegal or that will get such a backlash that it will hurt profits.
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And both myself and Electroboom have seen rather large continual drop-off in Patrons. Maybe Patreon is starting to decline from being "the thing"?
If so Fran might strugle to maintain Patrons regardless over the coming years.
It looks to me like the number of Patrons is not declining nearly as much as the revenue. So it may be patrons with less disposable income are paring back expenditure. Everyone is feeling squeezed.
Only the creator knows the exact revenue. Fran's income could still be the same, but I doubt it. As you say, people are feeling squeezed, so I'd expect some who upped their pledge last time to drop that back a bit, if not entirely. As a full time creator I have to plan for Patreon to possibly go to zero, or at least drop drastically coming into a recession.
I have youtube premium because apart from hating adds I think it's value for money and would like the creators to get something, too bad "someone" insists on odysee exclusives :), and no I am not signing up to their pro thing until they deal with the rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists that litter their platform.
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The depravity of youtube really opens the eyes. What they allow and disallow on their platform really shows what a bad corporation they are.
It's more about the depravity of the average human, corps are run by humans with the extra motivation for profit which will drive them to do anything not illegal or that will get such a backlash that it will hurt profits.
The reason Youtube exists is as old as civilisation:
(https://media.architecturaldigest.com/photos/55f9e1e89bff6eeb3a241b96/1:1/w_426,h_426,c_limit/dam-images-daily-2015-08-roman-colosseum-roman-colosseum-italy-545.jpg)
Only difference is you can watch from within your own home nowadays.
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Quite
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You misspelled it. You're missing an L in the word after deeeeeply.
Quote from: BravoV on Today at 07:46:23 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=143144.msg4845488#msg4845488)
>Quote from: beanflying on Today at 03:51:49 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=143144.msg4845227#msg4845227)Seriously we are now
4 years into this ...
Clearly there are deeeeeply infatuated people here, hence this never ending discussion about Fran. :-//
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Clearly there are deeeeeply infatuated people here, hence this never ending discussion about Fran. :-//
Most of us are just fans who don't want her channel to fail.
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Clearly there are deeeeeply infatuated people here, hence this never ending discussion about Fran. :-//
Most of us are just fans who don't want her channel to fail.
And the same thing happens over and over and over, and Fran airs all this dirty laundry in a very public way and every time it happens people start posting about it here.
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I have youtube premium because apart from hating adds I think it's value for money and would like the creators to get something
About 1/4 of my Youtube review comes from Premium subscribers. I have it too, no ads is great, and part of that money goes to videos that I watch that month.
too bad "someone" insists on odysee exclusives :), and no I am not signing up to their pro thing until they deal with the rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists that litter their platform.
Someone has to help build alternative platforms to Youtube. I decided to step up to the plate.
"rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists" on Odsyee? Have you seen Bitchute or Rumble?
At least Odysee's top 100 channels is absolutely littered with electronics, science, tech, and space channels, many of whom I convinced to join. I see literally zero content I don't want to see on Odysee, I'm logged in and only see the channels I follow, easy.
Also, almost all those same "nutjob" channels are also on Youtube.
The #1 channel on Odysee is Veritasium, a science channel.
I bet there are zero of those channels on Bitchute and Rumble's Top 100 channel list.
FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups ;D
https://tokin.video/
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And the same thing happens over and over and over, and Fran airs all this dirty laundry in a very public way and every time it happens people start posting about it here.
And the problem with discussing stuff is...?
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And the same thing happens over and over and over, and Fran airs all this dirty laundry in a very public way and every time it happens people start posting about it here.
And the problem with discussing stuff is...?
Nothing as far as I'm concerned, I wasn't the one complaining about it.
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And the same thing happens over and over and over, and Fran airs all this dirty laundry in a very public way and every time it happens people start posting about it here.
And the problem with discussing stuff is...?
Nothing as far as I'm concerned, I wasn't the one complaining about it.
Lets be very clear here I was NOT complaining about the topic or discussion but again raising the question is it helping or just continuing a 4 year long (mainly negative) circular discussion on Fran and the drama.
Airing of the SAME problems time and time again over years in public simply undermines Fran IMO.
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Airing of the SAME problems time and time again over years in public simply undermines Fran IMO.
Doesn't seem to have. And this has been kind of a catch-all thread for things that a lot of us deal with. Lab spaces, storage, rent vs buy, income sources, expense management, taxes etc.
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Lets be very clear here I was NOT complaining about the topic or discussion but again raising the question is it helping or just continuing a 4 year long (mainly negative) circular discussion on Fran and the drama.
Airing of the SAME problems time and time again over years in public simply undermines Fran IMO.
But the SAME problems keep happening over and over again, and whenever it happens people start talking about it. Fran is the one that made the things we are discussing public, she could have chosen to keep them private if that was what she wanted to do. Fran is also the one that keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results, and many of us engineers can't help brainstorming solutions because that's what engineers do. I don't think this thread is helping Fran (because she doesn't seem to want help), but I don't think it's hurting either.
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Airing of the SAME problems time and time again over years in public simply undermines Fran IMO.
Doesn't seem to have. And this has been kind of a catch-all thread for things that a lot of us deal with. Lab spaces, storage, rent vs buy, income sources, expense management, taxes etc.
Yep. I for one have reflected a lot more on my own options for the future because of this thread.
Fran is one of us. Sure, she has her own "odd" requirements/limitations, but so does everyone else. I definitely do. Others, like Dave, have family, which sets its own requirements/limitations, for example. Seeing how hers affect her options and choices in the course of a few years, is a very useful yardstick for reconsidering ones own (especially to consider if they are real, or just assumed requirements, in my own case).
Thus, I definitely find this thread a useful catch-all for the abovementioned things, that just happen to bite Fran frequently due to her requirements/limitations.
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FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups ;D
https://tokin.video/
This means it will be infested with SJWs. There is nothing controversial about their content, it's just basic (modern) science ;)
Headquartered in the US and run by tech bros, you just know what to expect.
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FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups ;D
https://tokin.video/
This means it will be infested with SJWs. There is nothing controversial about their content, it's just basic (modern) science ;)
Headquartered in the US and run by tech bros, you just know what to expect.
They are going to focus on "science, electronics, tech, health, film, music, gaming and sports."
99% chance of the platform becoming a nothing burger of course, but zero downside for me.
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FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups ;D
https://tokin.video/
This means it will be infested with SJWs. There is nothing controversial about their content, it's just basic (modern) science ;)
Headquartered in the US and run by tech bros, you just know what to expect.
They are going to focus on "science, electronics, tech, health, film, music, gaming and sports."
99% chance of the platform becoming a nothing burger of course, but zero downside for me.
I quite like the,
What are Tokins?
Tokins are limited. All users will be granted an equal amount.
Tokins are NOT a currency.
Tokins are NOT a cryptocurrency.
Tokins will never be bought or sold.
It's not like firms would pay users for thier votes or setup plenty of shill accounts to up the tokins.
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It's not like firms would pay users for thier votes or setup plenty of shill accounts to up the tokins.
https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+likes (https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+youtube+likes)
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After being on internet forums for a couple of decades I have found likes and dislikes when they were introduced are always abused heavily. It seems a lot of people can not handle someone having a differing opinion to themselves and just hammer that dislike button. This creates problems when you get rewarded for "likes". It also creates problems that people will actively post stuff to get dislikes. On top of that you just end up with echo chambers.
More and more I now see a "thank-you" option, which seems to stop the serial clickheads.
Probably one thing that amuses me about forums that are single topic threads is how it brings people together, that had they met in person would not acknowledge each other or even perhaps hate each other. We could have some hard core <insert political party here> lovers that hate on <insert other political party here>, but they get along fine talking electronics with people who are the opposite because they do not know they are the opposite. It is like christmas day in the trenches in WW1. Both sides started a harmless soccer game in no mans land against each other.
Fantasy optimism I know. But perhaps, one day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFOIyL8BPTE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFOIyL8BPTE)
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I have youtube premium because apart from hating adds I think it's value for money and would like the creators to get something
About 1/4 of my Youtube review comes from Premium subscribers. I have it too, no ads is great, and part of that money goes to videos that I watch that month.
too bad "someone" insists on odysee exclusives :), and no I am not signing up to their pro thing until they deal with the rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists that litter their platform.
Someone has to help build alternative platforms to Youtube. I decided to step up to the plate.
"rightwing nutcase conspiracy theorists" on Odsyee? Have you seen Bitchute or Rumble?
At least Odysee's top 100 channels is absolutely littered with electronics, science, tech, and space channels, many of whom I convinced to join. I see literally zero content I don't want to see on Odysee, I'm logged in and only see the channels I follow, easy.
Also, almost all those same "nutjob" channels are also on Youtube.
The #1 channel on Odysee is Veritasium, a science channel.
I bet there are zero of those channels on Bitchute and Rumble's Top 100 channel list.
FYI, there is a new platform coming that will actively not invite political/controversial channels at all. Guess who's one of the first sign-ups ;D
https://tokin.video/
Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.
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(Please take this summary, as very approximate, it is difficult to be precise and I don't want to give away too many spoilers) Fran discusses, her recent experiences (somewhat bad/rude), with the somewhat 'younger' generation. Discussing how modern life has changed, compared to a number of decades ago, and speculates on how modern life is turning out, for some people, now and in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7gf3NwAavg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7gf3NwAavg)
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It's a world where men have been removed from the home and replaced with technology and online gaming.
No discipline no consequences, anything goes let's do it in the road.
I am old enough to have gone to Woodstock and glad I didn't.
At this rate this world is done, stick a fork in it.
Meanwhile don't live in an S-Hole like Philly because there are places where time and society have not moved forward to such a degraded place as Philly. I suggest you seek such a place to have a better life.
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No, but it goes back to the 1800's as far as any metropolis, as seen in every movie about it, and recently on YouTube showing the filth, drugs, and crime et. al.
I came from such a northern city, to be unnamed, just as bad only with no industry to speak of since the 80's.
Now with the lack of resources to maintain its own infrastructure, crime, drugs, murders, despair, etc. are rampant.
I will never go back.
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Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.
We saw the problem with that approach during covid.
Countless people lost way more than a platform to speak their mind.
Sorry, you can't just ban people "telling lies" without the system being absolutely corrupted to the core.
I like the new Twitter approach of Community Notes.
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Takes some guts of them to say "we're unaffiliated with crypto/web3" and then use a word "tokinomics" which is one letter and 0 syllables away from hit crypto term "tokenomics".
Favorite argument of little children and Silicon Valley businesses: I am not a taxi service, because I say so.
Maybe that's why they are so big on all the identity politics and self-identification stuff :-DD
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Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.
We saw the problem with that approach during covid.
Countless people lost way more than a platform to speak their mind.
Sorry, you can't just ban people "telling lies" without the system being absolutely corrupted to the core.
I like the new Twitter approach of Community Notes.
When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem. If thunderfoot can find out that the guy was actually struck off for malpractice I think youtube can. But thunderfoot's video explaining the truth was taken down while the fake doctors video remained despite his best attempts to explain it to youtube. These are the same facemasks that surgeons wear for hours to do operations. You need humans in the loop, algorithms can't do it and a free service cannot pay enough quality humans to moderate.
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Yea, I guess so. what concerns me is that although I may not see them as it learns what I don't like people do find them and sadly - humans, and worse, it affects us all as a society. I'd make this argument for any of the platforms, until one takes the lead in throwing out the garbage no one will. It's got nothing to do with free speech, people telling lies is not the same as free speach.
We saw the problem with that approach during covid.
Countless people lost way more than a platform to speak their mind.
Sorry, you can't just ban people "telling lies" without the system being absolutely corrupted to the core.
I like the new Twitter approach of Community Notes.
When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem. If thunderfoot can find out that the guy was actually struck off for malpractice I think youtube can. But thunderfoot's video explaining the truth was taken down while the fake doctors video remained despite his best attempts to explain it to youtube. These are the same facemasks that surgeons wear for hours to do operations. You need humans in the loop, algorithms can't do it and a free service cannot pay enough quality humans to moderate.
The core problem is that the general public wants answers. Doesn't matter if the answer makes sense or is right/wrong. In the past this was filled in by religion. During the past decades modern media like TV and more recently, internet has taken over that role.
Just look at TV when a dissaster happens. You get an endless amount of talking heads, most of which are self appointed experts, spouting their wild theories & speculations simply to give people the sense the situation is being handled.
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Thing is, Simon, there is no such thing as scientific truth.
I mean, in 2012 a respectable article found that only a small fraction of the scientific findings in preclinical cancer research could be verified (https://www.nature.com/articles/483531a). We're talking about 20% or less; with 80% or more being basically junk science.
More specifically, doi:10.1111/jebm.12424 (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33565274/) states that while there is not enough clinical or preclinical data wrt. SARS-CoV-2, "RCT evidence for other respiratory viral illnesses shows no significant benefit of masks in limiting transmission but is of poor quality and not SARS-CoV-2 specific".
Surgeons and dentists do not wear masks to avoid spreading or contracting viral infections or aerosols, they use them to avoid ingesting and emitting droplets and gobbets of bodily fluids.
I have seen at least one Finnish report (comparing nurses using various protective gear) that indicates you need FFP2 or better to make a difference wrt. bacterial or viral (aerosol) transmission, but I can't be arsed to find a link right now. Proper hand hygiene had a bigger effect than surgical masks.
The point is, science is a method, not a set of facts; and you cannot use science to say someone is lying and someone else is speaking the truth. You can only reflect on the current understanding, which is not necessarily the prevalent scientific consensus because the latter is indirectly heavily skewed by research financing. (That is, researchers prefer to avoid controversial opinions because that can limit their future research funding –– unless they're either getting paid by someone to make the controversial claims already, or they have what they consider to be convincing evidence. So, even though they think something is false, they often avoid admitting it, in order to not risk current and/or future funding.)
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The core problem is that the general public wants answers. Doesn't matter if the answer makes sense or is right/wrong. In the past this was filled in by religion. During the past decades modern media like TV and more recently, internet has taken over that role.
Just look at TV when a dissaster happens. You get an endless amount of talking heads, most of which are self appointed experts, spouting their wild theories & speculations simply to give people the sense the situation is being handled.
We now live in a world of almost instant world wide access to information. This mixed in with fairly easy access to equipment to share into this information means we get a lot of info. Not all of it correct.
I have always got annoyed at the talking heads they get onto the news to talk as they are often hyped up as an expert. But they are just the idiot willing to go on TV. If the reporter asks the right questions they can get trick an expert into a position where they say something that is technically true but without all the info it's just misleading.
There was a show a few years back that was taking the piss out of main TV channels I think it was called channel hopping, anyway it had a segment where a reporter was reporting live on a street where the press claimed that somthing may happen, the whole show would flick back to this street to see a reporter hyping it all up and talking to residents who were just confused, then back to the stuudio where an expert would be asked stuff like could a meteorite hit this street and he would say there is a very very small chance of it happening, so you hear it here first a meteorite could fall on this street.
With regards to a video service I think some of the issues they services have is they like to show you more of the stuff you have just seen, it doesn't take long before you are suckered into a world of very narrow focus. I out of curiosity watched an A T*te video and it's taken a lot of Marco Reps, Dave, ToT and Elctroboom to return my feed back to the way I liked it.
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More specifically, doi:10.1111/jebm.12424 (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33565274/) states that while there is not enough clinical or preclinical data wrt. SARS-CoV-2, "RCT evidence for other respiratory viral illnesses shows no significant benefit of masks in limiting transmission but is of poor quality and not SARS-CoV-2 specific".
Surgeons and dentists do not wear masks to avoid spreading or contracting viral infections or aerosols, they use them to avoid ingesting and emitting droplets and gobbets of bodily fluids.
And you have just fallen for the trap. I did not state an opinion as to whether the masks worked or not. I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie. Despite this his videos remained. I know why surgeons wear masks, I never said they wore them to stop the spread of infection. Indeed, when you have just cut someone's body open making them extremely vulnerable, the last thing you want to do is accidentally spit or drool into the wound. And for this reason real doctors not like the fake one making the bullcrap up, do wear these very masks for long periods of time and are able to perform rather delicate procedures.
So it is fairly obvious that this video was pure lies. But youtube let it stand. I am quite happy to accept that wearing a mask may not prevent transmission, but here the fraudulent doctor is not making this sort of reasonable argument. he has come up with something totally different that cannot even stand up to reality.
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And you have just fallen for the trap.
No, my post was about the fact that science provides no facts or truths. You yourself wrote "thunderfoot's video explaining the truth". Truth based on what?
I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie.
Problem is, all those adjectives are opinions, not verifiable facts. Especially "Easily found to be", when I just linked to a recent study that explicitly says we do not have reliable data on this. See?
Just because you (or I) feel something is obviously true, does not make it objectively true.
My point is, whatever you think is obviously the truth or obviously a lie, is relative to your opinion. If you start censoring based on that, no matter how good intentions you have, it will sooner or later devolve into a corrupt system where only correct opinions are allowed. No such censoring system has ever, in the known history, been able to avoid becoming a corrupt one. Not even the academic ones.
The most dangerous path is when you start censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself. It is itself a corrupt method, anti-scientific, because instead of the content of the message, it examines the messenger.
As a media, the only correct option is to avoid having to mark posts "true" or "false"; and not to try and filter or censor them using "truth" as a criteria.
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If we go along the "we'll delete everything that can be debunked, and showed to be unreproducible or contrary to measurable data and statistics", we'll have to start with a large amount of peer-reviewed articles (including 80%+ of all preclinical cancer research), all advertisements, most of opinions, most of newsmedia and news articles, and so on.
It is a beautiful idea, like humans interacting with each other in only positive ways; it's just not a realistic, workable one.
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censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself
I agree that the ideal is not to do that, but if someone is consistently a nutjob then what are the chances that this one time they will be right? It could happen, but the probability is it won't. If you give everyone the benefit of the doubt then you waste an inordinate amount of resources hiding the better stuff, don't you? And because the conspiracy theory stuff is better received, allowing that to propagate unchecked just increases the number of people taken in.
I think this is one area where we cannot have either extreme, but positioning towards one end is better than plonking down in the middle.
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“Tell me anyway--Maybe I can find the truth by comparing the lies.” - Leon Trotsky
Maybe he was ahead of his time, or people haven't really changed all that much.
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At the time lots of scientists where shunned becuase they went against the accepted norm. So how do we prevent somone being cancelled on the media platforms just becuase they go accepted knowledge.
I feel I need to quote the film MiB,
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet.
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Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe
Still is :)
I think the scriptwriter really meant 'center of the solar system'.
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And you have just fallen for the trap.
No, my post was about the fact that science provides no facts or truths. You yourself wrote "thunderfoot's video explaining the truth". Truth based on what?
I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie.
Problem is, all those adjectives are opinions, not verifiable facts. Especially "Easily found to be", when I just linked to a recent study that explicitly says we do not have reliable data on this. See?
Just because you (or I) feel something is obviously true, does not make it objectively true.
My point is, whatever you think is obviously the truth or obviously a lie, is relative to your opinion. If you start censoring based on that, no matter how good intentions you have, it will sooner or later devolve into a corrupt system where only correct opinions are allowed. No such censoring system has ever, in the known history, been able to avoid becoming a corrupt one. Not even the academic ones.
The most dangerous path is when you start censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself. It is itself a corrupt method, anti-scientific, because instead of the content of the message, it examines the messenger.
As a media, the only correct option is to avoid having to mark posts "true" or "false"; and not to try and filter or censor them using "truth" as a criteria.
Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.
fact: man who is not a doctor claims to be one
fact: he lied!
Fact: the already discredited individual claims that a face mask used by doctors all over the world, a commonly used everyday item will basically suffocate you.
fact: what he said is a lie. That is all the point I was making, what the hell are you on about?
So are you saying that there is scientific uncertainty about whether or net an item used for many decades without problem is suddenly going to start sufocating people?
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Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress.... :popcorn:
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censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself
I agree that the ideal is not to do that, but if someone is consistently a nutjob then what are the chances that this one time they will be right? It could happen, but the probability is it won't. If you give everyone the benefit of the doubt then you waste an inordinate amount of resources hiding the better stuff, don't you? And because the conspiracy theory stuff is better received, allowing that to propagate unchecked just increases the number of people taken in.
I think this is one area where we cannot have either extreme, but positioning towards one end is better than plonking down in the middle.
People who clearly make it their business to be dishonest to the point their chosen profession threw them out are not worthy, if the bar is well one day he may be right even though he is know to be by profession a lying crook then no one will get their stuff thrown out. However in Youtube universe when a guy tries to point out that this person has been professionally discredited and is telling obvious lies (well obvious to people with normal levels of intelligence) his video get's banned, it just gets worse! People do already get banned, but on youtube it seems to be 50/50 as to if it's the lyer on the one exposing the syer.
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Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress.... :popcorn:
Her last two videos are of the Big Clive 'take apart cheap tat' genre. Will she she be happy with how the big bad algorithm suggests them to potential viewers?
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Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.
Are you taking something personally?
"You" there was an academic bystander making observations.
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Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.
fact: man who is not a doctor claims to be one
fact: he lied!
Fact: the already discredited individual claims that a face mask used by doctors all over the world, a commonly used everyday item will basically suffocate you.
fact: what he said is a lie. That is all the point I was making, what the hell are you on about?
So are you saying that there is scientific uncertainty about whether or net an item used for many decades without problem is suddenly going to start sufocating people?
No sane person is claiming the latter. But what can be questioned is the effectiveness of using face masks by the general public without the required training on proper usage, is actually going to be helpfull. And this circles back to wanting answers for questions that don't have an immediate answer. Governments are made up of people and they coerced answers from health experts that just didn't know so just gave an answer that is likely to be accepted. And then the nay-sayers, complot theorists, etc come in abusing the knowledge vacuum to start spreading FUD. Given the widely varying governmental requirements nobody really knew whether or not using face masks was effective. At some point we didn't need to wear facemasks in the NL while in Germany the FFP2 masks where required. Go figure :palm:
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When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem.
What's the problem?
If somebody is dumb enough to actually believe that, there's no helping them. If you silence that voice, they'll just actively seek another voice that tells them the same thing because it's what they want to hear. Silencing them also gives them legitimacy, it gives the appearance that they were speaking the truth that someone doesn't want someone to hear.
Telling lies is absolutely protected free speech. You can't make incorrect claims about a specific person, that's slander, but there's no law against lying.
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The core problem is that the general public wants answers. Doesn't matter if the answer makes sense or is right/wrong. In the past this was filled in by religion. During the past decades modern media like TV and more recently, internet has taken over that role.
Just look at TV when a dissaster happens. You get an endless amount of talking heads, most of which are self appointed experts, spouting their wild theories & speculations simply to give people the sense the situation is being handled.
I don't think they're trying to give people a sense that it's being handled. In fact, that might work against their goals, which I think are to maximize viewing minutes [and ads watched].
One of my favorite self-owns on the exaggeration angle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4) :-DD
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And you have just fallen for the trap.
No, my post was about the fact that science provides no facts or truths. You yourself wrote "thunderfoot's video explaining the truth". Truth based on what?
I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie.
Problem is, all those adjectives are opinions, not verifiable facts. Especially "Easily found to be", when I just linked to a recent study that explicitly says we do not have reliable data on this. See?
Just because you (or I) feel something is obviously true, does not make it objectively true.
My point is, whatever you think is obviously the truth or obviously a lie, is relative to your opinion. If you start censoring based on that, no matter how good intentions you have, it will sooner or later devolve into a corrupt system where only correct opinions are allowed. No such censoring system has ever, in the known history, been able to avoid becoming a corrupt one. Not even the academic ones.
The most dangerous path is when you start censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself. It is itself a corrupt method, anti-scientific, because instead of the content of the message, it examines the messenger.
As a media, the only correct option is to avoid having to mark posts "true" or "false"; and not to try and filter or censor them using "truth" as a criteria.
Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.
fact: man who is not a doctor claims to be one
fact: he lied!
Fact: the already discredited individual claims that a face mask used by doctors all over the world, a commonly used everyday item will basically suffocate you.
fact: what he said is a lie. That is all the point I was making, what the hell are you on about?
So are you saying that there is scientific uncertainty about whether or net an item used for many decades without problem is suddenly going to start sufocating people?
Context is everything; while the claims of this YT charlatan are obviously (to anyone with basic logic skills) false, put a mask on and then run up (and I mean run, not walk) a few flights of stairs. You will find yourself oxygen deprived.
EDIT: Just a quick edit to point out this isn't due to breathing CO2 back in, it's airflow restriction.
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when the talking heads seen on live video becomes 110% artificial & scientific truth becomes yet another lie.
because of opinions, factfailure to maximize viewing. and ads watched. no problem if no one believes it is a problem.
so what happens if a snake trys to swallow itself. anything with one eye has no depth perception. fuzzy logic becomes fuzzyfacts.
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So it is fairly obvious that this video was pure lies. But youtube let it stand.
You have to be willing to accept that. There is absolutely no practical way to ban "incorrect" people and not have the system abused, ever. That system has been proven that it can't work.
You have to find another way.
Like I said, the way the Twitter Community Notes system works is the best compromise system I've seen so far.
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When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem. If thunderfoot can find out that the guy was actually struck off for malpractice I think youtube can. But thunderfoot's video explaining the truth was taken down while the fake doctors video remained despite his best attempts to explain it to youtube. These are the same facemasks that surgeons wear for hours to do operations. You need humans in the loop, algorithms can't do it and a free service cannot pay enough quality humans to moderate.
You've just described the Twitter Community Notes system.
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When you have someone claiming to be a doctor telling people that a facemask will kill you due to the CO2 you will breath back in you have a problem.
What's the problem?
If somebody is dumb enough to actually believe that, there's no helping them. If you silence that voice, they'll just actively seek another voice that tells them the same thing because it's what they want to hear. Silencing them also gives them legitimacy, it gives the appearance that they were speaking the truth that someone doesn't want someone to hear.
Telling lies is absolutely protected free speech. You can't make incorrect claims about a specific person, that's slander, but there's no law against lying.
Yes, unfortunately, science cannot sue for slander.
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Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.
fact: man who is not a doctor claims to be one
fact: he lied!
Fact: the already discredited individual claims that a face mask used by doctors all over the world, a commonly used everyday item will basically suffocate you.
fact: what he said is a lie. That is all the point I was making, what the hell are you on about?
So are you saying that there is scientific uncertainty about whether or net an item used for many decades without problem is suddenly going to start sufocating people?
No sane person is claiming the latter. But what can be questioned is the effectiveness of using face masks by the general public without the required training on proper usage, is actually going to be helpfull. And this circles back to wanting answers for questions that don't have an immediate answer. Governments are made up of people and they coerced answers from health experts that just didn't know so just gave an answer that is likely to be accepted. And then the nay-sayers, complot theorists, etc come in abusing the knowledge vacuum to start spreading FUD. Given the widely varying governmental requirements nobody really knew whether or not using face masks was effective. At some point we didn't need to wear facemasks in the NL while in Germany the FFP2 masks where required. Go figure :palm:
Now you are at it! we were talking free speech, now we are talking about something else. Humans have such short attention spans... A line has to be drawn somewhere, lets start with the low hanging fruit. And yes there is a problem with this stuff, even if "no sane person" would believe it, when this stuff is unchallenged it starts to set a new baseline of what reality is for many people. And we all have to live with these people. It's happened before with disastrous consequences. You will find that there are plenty of people in society that are not that sane. Remember once upon a time people who were certainly sane were being put to death because they had sane ideas, the stupid masses lead by those that ran a fantasy cult which could only exist because of adherence of the masses were murdering people who would otherwise advance knowledge an civilization. We sort of go over that a while ago but humans have not changed that much.
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You will find that there are plenty of people in society that are not that sane.
Don't they become psychologists, lawyers, politicians, bleeding heart hypocrites, everyone is a victim (except the people that stand on their own two feet), etc? :D
I often wondered, if the US constitution was being written with the knowledge of today, the free speech portion, would they have made it so it would be forced upon the likes of youtube and so on?
But with rights come responsibilities and there seem to be plenty who want the rights, but not the responsibility that goes with it.
I certainly do not like the way youtube operates, but there are many many mega corporations the same.
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put a mask on and then run up (and I mean run, not walk) a few flights of stairs. You will find yourself oxygen deprived.
EDIT: Just a quick edit to point out this isn't due to breathing CO2 back in, it's airflow restriction.[/color][/font][/b]
You may waste your breath, do it differently next time.
Start breathing abnormally deep and continue doing so when running.
In case you have to think your breathing too much check your steps also.
I was once using a demolition hammer against concrete in pretty small space.
It was under a staircase where I had dust insulated few cubic meters.
There deep breathing through ffp something mask was not enough pretty fast.
Isolating eye mask was also fogging, from inside.
(and then there are those old coal mines)
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A line has to be drawn somewhere, lets start with the low hanging fruit. And yes there is a problem with this stuff, even if "no sane person" would believe it, when this stuff is unchallenged it starts to set a new baseline of what reality is for many people. And we all have to live with these people. It's happened before with disastrous consequences. You will find that there are plenty of people in society that are not that sane. Remember once upon a time people who were certainly sane were being put to death because they had sane ideas, the stupid masses lead by those that ran a fantasy cult which could only exist because of adherence of the masses were murdering people who would otherwise advance knowledge an civilization. We sort of go over that a while ago but humans have not changed that much.
Inside this line of thinking is the problem. When "everyone knew the world was flat" some people, who appeared to the people of time to be crazy, were arguing that it was round. What should happen in that moment? Should the speech of those crazies who think the world is round be squashed as the low-hanging fruit of the patently crazy?
Ideas go from crazy and obviously wrong to mainstream with some regularity.
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The answer is: hindsight and a time machine. And perhaps some betting slips.
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Given the widely varying governmental requirements nobody really knew whether or not using face masks was effective.
There's plenty of scientific evidence that the good ones are effective, cheap or improvised ones less so but still better than nothing.
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I often wondered, if the US constitution was being written with the knowledge of today, the free speech portion, would they have made it so it would be forced upon the likes of youtube and so on?
But with rights come responsibilities and there seem to be plenty who want the rights, but not the responsibility that goes with it.
I certainly do not like the way youtube operates, but there are many many mega corporations the same.
I think that when it comes to putting things online etc it should be classed as publishing and come under different rules. Saying what you like is one thing, Your personal opinion should be your affair, air it with your mates down the pub, but as soon as you want to start broadcasting and publishing that crap to the masses then you better be prepared to deal with the consequences.
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The original framers (and I tend to agree) thought that the rights of speech and press were equally worthy of protection.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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The original framers (and I tend to agree) thought that the rights of speech and press were equally worthy of protection.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The other way of looking at it is that sure, have your free speech, but lies shall not be tolerated. In the same way that free speech lets you slander someone who may sue to to remove the incorrect assertions, so should those slandering reality have to take the same risk. Because with freedom comes responsability!
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The other way of looking at it is that sure, have your free speech, but lies shall not be tolerated. In the same way that free speech lets you slander someone who may sue to to remove the incorrect assertions, so should those slandering reality have to take the same risk. Because with freedom comes responsability!
Who gets to decide what is true and what is lies?
There's a name for people that want to silence others, they're called "tyrants".
Why do you feel a need to try to silence people? Surely you must know that trying to silence an idea only gives it strength, it creates an impression that it must be true because people are trying to keep others from hearing it. The obvious solution is to get more smart people speaking the real truth, you just have to accept that you absolutely cannot make an idea go away by force.
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When people come up with junk science it is pretty clear cut. As I said youtube are already silencing people, and they tend to make a mistake often taking down videos that are not telling lies in favor of those that are spouting obvious nonsense. On this forum moderation is done by real humans, but if we follow free speech to the letter then all the porn, adverts, spam and general nut jobs get to stay up? I mean if free speech rules why are we bothering to moderate the forum? Why should youtube be expected to take down material from terrorists? I mean free speech?
As far as I am concerned people posting utter fake science are as good as the terrorists, they want to convince you of an alternative reality which fits their agenda, gives them power over you, allows them to manipulate you and ultimately harm the stupid that believe them. I don't have a problem with genuine scientific debate, but cmon, you are telling me that you have never seen clear cut junk science?
The concept of free speech was conceived to protect people from oppression in the very literal sense. If you were writing that stuff today you would probably talk about freedom of thought, when people were being killed for what religion they preached at some point this was deemed to be a bit much. In the modern age I can put any bullcrap online and reach as many people as there are with access to the internet, it is certainly not the same thing as evidenced by the fact that this forum is moderated, youtube is moderated if you can call the misfiring algorithm a moderator, just about every online discussion platform has and exerts the power to remove stuff. People are once again up in arms about something that a) already happens and b) if we took their view to the extreme then they would still be up in arms but for a different reason.
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Governments restricting speech is massively more problematic than private platforms deciding what they want to allow.
If you or Dave delete one of my posts, my right to free speech hasn’t been infringed upon.
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Governments restricting speech is massively more problematic than private platforms deciding what they want to allow.
If you or Dave delete one of my posts, my right to free speech hasn’t been infringed upon.
I thought we were talking about youtube.
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Same for YouTube. They’re not the government; if they want to promote some videos over others, demonetize some, block others entirely, IMO, that’s they’re prerogative.
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As far as I am concerned people posting utter fake science are as good as the terrorists, they want to convince you of an alternative reality which fits their agenda, gives them power over you, allows them to manipulate you and ultimately harm the stupid that believe them. I don't have a problem with genuine scientific debate, but cmon, you are telling me that you have never seen clear cut junk science?
What an absurdly ridiculous hyperbole. Terrorists? Really?
Of course I've seen clear cut junk science, but I don't try to silence it, I know that will only give it more strength. The way to combat junk science is with good science. Post good information, don't try to silence bad information, that doesn't work, it never works, it can't work. People should be free to speak their mind, even if they're full of shit. Yes some people will be dumb enough to believe them, you can't change that. Nobody ever has had their mind changed by force, it just doesn't work. When someone tries, they dig in their heals and it reinforces their view.
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when there is so much false information that people cannot tell the difference? it's no fun living surrounded by idiots!
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As far as I am concerned people posting utter fake science are as good as the terrorists, they want to convince you of an alternative reality which fits their agenda, gives them power over you, allows them to manipulate you and ultimately harm the stupid that believe them. I don't have a problem with genuine scientific debate, but cmon, you are telling me that you have never seen clear cut junk science?
What an absurdly ridiculous hyperbole. Terrorists? Really?
Of course I've seen clear cut junk science, but I don't try to silence it, I know that will only give it more strength. The way to combat junk science is with good science. Post good information, don't try to silence bad information, that doesn't work, it never works, it can't work. People should be free to speak their mind, even if they're full of shit. Yes some people will be dumb enough to believe them, you can't change that. Nobody ever has had their mind changed by force, it just doesn't work. When someone tries, they dig in their heals and it reinforces their view.
They spread fear among the general public and use it to further their agenda. Just because it isn't physical violence doesn't make it any less harmful; I'd argue an anti-vaxxer causes more damage than any "traditional" terrorist.
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Quite, after all, go back to history, society was run by a bunch of religious nut jobs, the peaceful Christians inspired the crusades and knowledgeable people were murdered for being witches. Terrorists aim to take over someone else's society with fear and force. But the producers of false propaganda work from the inside to take over their society, I'm sure there is an example of this somewhere in history....
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Quite, after all, go back to history, society was run by a bunch of religious nut jobs, the peaceful Christians inspired the crusades and knowledgeable people were murdered for being witches. Terrorists aim to take over someone else's society with fear and force. But the producers of false propaganda work from the inside to take over their society, I'm sure there is an example of this somewhere in history....
It's been written as we speak !
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And you have just fallen for the trap.
No, my post was about the fact that science provides no facts or truths. You yourself wrote "thunderfoot's video explaining the truth". Truth based on what?
I simply stated that there was this nutty guy that was firstly a lyer and a fraud before he even started talking about masks, what he had to say about masks is easily found to be yet another lie.
Problem is, all those adjectives are opinions, not verifiable facts. Especially "Easily found to be", when I just linked to a recent study that explicitly says we do not have reliable data on this. See?
Just because you (or I) feel something is obviously true, does not make it objectively true.
My point is, whatever you think is obviously the truth or obviously a lie, is relative to your opinion. If you start censoring based on that, no matter how good intentions you have, it will sooner or later devolve into a corrupt system where only correct opinions are allowed. No such censoring system has ever, in the known history, been able to avoid becoming a corrupt one. Not even the academic ones.
The most dangerous path is when you start censoring content based on the author, instead of the content itself. It is itself a corrupt method, anti-scientific, because instead of the content of the message, it examines the messenger.
As a media, the only correct option is to avoid having to mark posts "true" or "false"; and not to try and filter or censor them using "truth" as a criteria.
Will you stop trolling? we are not talking about the effectiveness of masks in the covid context.
fact: man who is not a doctor claims to be one
fact: he lied!
Fact: the already discredited individual claims that a face mask used by doctors all over the world, a commonly used everyday item will basically suffocate you.
fact: what he said is a lie. That is all the point I was making, what the hell are you on about?
So are you saying that there is scientific uncertainty about whether or net an item used for many decades without problem is suddenly going to start sufocating people?
I don't think Nominal Animal was trolling, just misunderstood.
Your point wasn't that masks did anything to control the spread of respiratory viruses, just that someone claiming they suffocate you, was talking bollocks and believe should have had their video taken down, but YT decided to go after thunderfoot's video debunking them.
Neither video should have been taken down. There are far greater sources of misinformation, than random YT videos, such as the health authorities themselves, who pushed the idea that facemasks stopped the spread of viruses, even to the point of mandating them, when there wasn't strong evidence to support their efficacy. It wouldn't have been so bad, if they'd said they might help, but there certainly wasn't enough evidence to force people to wear them. Even that wouldn't have been good, since I know people who did things they wouldn't have otherwise had done, such as car share, because they believed masks would protect them. To cap it off, we had big tech being pushed by the government to censor information which contradicted public health policy. The official reason for this was, to prevent people from spreading lies which undermined the authorities' ability to deal with the pandemic, but in reality it stopped people from calling out their own lies.
As far as I am concerned people posting utter fake science are as good as the terrorists, they want to convince you of an alternative reality which fits their agenda, gives them power over you, allows them to manipulate you and ultimately harm the stupid that believe them. I don't have a problem with genuine scientific debate, but cmon, you are telling me that you have never seen clear cut junk science?
What an absurdly ridiculous hyperbole. Terrorists? Really?
Of course I've seen clear cut junk science, but I don't try to silence it, I know that will only give it more strength. The way to combat junk science is with good science. Post good information, don't try to silence bad information, that doesn't work, it never works, it can't work. People should be free to speak their mind, even if they're full of shit. Yes some people will be dumb enough to believe them, you can't change that. Nobody ever has had their mind changed by force, it just doesn't work. When someone tries, they dig in their heals and it reinforces their view.
They spread fear among the general public and use it to further their agenda. Just because it isn't physical violence doesn't make it any less harmful; I'd argue an anti-vaxxer causes more damage than any "traditional" terrorist.
What a load of rubbish. It's not a single anti-vaxer who causes the damage, but when when no one questions him. The MMR autism scandal was a classic example of the mainstream media not questioning Andrew Wakefield, who incidentally was not an anti-vaxer, but had vested interests in an alternative vaccine. I was a teenager at the time and didn't believe it, since it was fairly obvious autistic children showed symptoms around the age they'd get the MMR vaccine and that more children were being diagnosed was due to an increase in screening.
The reverse can happen too: an overzealous vaccine rollout can lead to death an injury because important safety signals are missed. A classic example of this was the swine flu vaccine, back in 1976, which caused an increased risk of Guillain–Barré syndrome resulting in injury and death. Many respected medical professionals fear a similar thing has happened recently and it's being covered up.
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The reverse can happen too: an overzealous vaccine rollout can lead to death an injury because important safety signals are missed. A classic example of this was the swine flu vaccine, back in 1976, which caused an increased risk of Guillain–Barré syndrome resulting in injury and death. Many respected medical professionals fear a similar thing has happened recently and it's being covered up.
100%
Some used the so called epidemic as an opportunity to enforce emergency powers and keep injuries suppressed and wobetide any that spoke out about what was being done to us.
A chapter in history that we'd all rather forget and in many ways it's sad we have not learnt that authoritarian rule can be counterproductive as many here have gone out of their way to fall off all state records of their existence effectively raising 2 fingers to authority.
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I guess we should just abolish schooling too. Between free speech and not trusting anyone lets just go back to the middle ages, we are not far off anyway.
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I guess we should just abolish schooling too. Between free speech and not trusting anyone lets just go back to the middle ages, we are not far off anyway.
Have you not seen some of the rubbish pushed down kids throats these days....even 20 years ago our daughter had to listen to alternative sexual education and when stating it was not natural and her parents would be bankrupt because of such shit as 2 cows can't produce a calf !
She and others like minded with the balls to stand up against such being taught in schools were excluded from the class to spend the remainder in the Principals office.
All authority has lowered standards and as parents we now need ensure the next generation be properly guided.....
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Rather than imagining the ministers of truth are infallible, consider the possibility that they’ll sometimes be wrong and sometimes it will be unclear who’s right/what’s right and they might not side with you.
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Rather than imagining the ministers of truth are infallible, consider the possibility that they’ll sometimes be wrong and sometimes it will be unclear who’s right/what’s right and they might not side with you.
Consider those Ministers are guided by their scientific advisers that could be plain wrong and proved such later as better info becomes available......or won't go against the hand that feeds them for fear of being replaced.
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What a load of rubbish. It's not a single anti-vaxer who causes the damage, but when when no one questions him. The MMR autism scandal was a classic example of the mainstream media not questioning Andrew Wakefield, who incidentally was not an anti-vaxer, but had vested interests in an alternative vaccine. I was a teenager at the time and didn't believe it, since it was fairly obvious autistic children showed symptoms around the age they'd get the MMR vaccine and that more children were being diagnosed was due to an increase in screening.
The reverse can happen too: an overzealous vaccine rollout can lead to death an injury because important safety signals are missed. A classic example of this was the swine flu vaccine, back in 1976, which caused an increased risk of Guillain–Barré syndrome resulting in injury and death. Many respected medical professionals fear a similar thing has happened recently and it's being covered up.
If you can't see the contradiction in what you just said, there's no point talking to you further.
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when there is so much false information that people cannot tell the difference? it's no fun living surrounded by idiots!
True dat.
But how come every other is above average.
One problem is that every asshole can vote.
But if not then finally the great asshole asshole will be the dictator.
There free education is one preventer, moderate state church another.
I'd say that what we are seeing now is a recoil to instant information exchange.
It will fade away when silent majority have time to react against vocal minority.
Good recent example is patent trolls.
Now rainbow folks and their opponents are two vocal minorities.
Finally equal rights will prevail and fear of change will fade.
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Every society as a whole gets the government/leadership it deserves, If people vote for the corrupt why do they complain afterwards? The problem is for the few that can see through the false promises as just people pleasing and accept reality and work with reality rather than the one that propaganda politics produces, but are stuck with what the majority want.
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What a load of rubbish. It's not a single anti-vaxer who causes the damage, but when when no one questions him. The MMR autism scandal was a classic example of the mainstream media not questioning Andrew Wakefield, who incidentally was not an anti-vaxer, but had vested interests in an alternative vaccine. I was a teenager at the time and didn't believe it, since it was fairly obvious autistic children showed symptoms around the age they'd get the MMR vaccine and that more children were being diagnosed was due to an increase in screening.
The reverse can happen too: an overzealous vaccine rollout can lead to death an injury because important safety signals are missed. A classic example of this was the swine flu vaccine, back in 1976, which caused an increased risk of Guillain–Barré syndrome resulting in injury and death. Many respected medical professionals fear a similar thing has happened recently and it's being covered up.
If you can't see the contradiction in what you just said, there's no point talking to you further.
You still haven't backed up your ludicrous idea that an anti-vaxer can cause more harm than a terrorist.
They spread fear among the general public and use it to further their agenda. Just because it isn't physical violence doesn't make it any less harmful; I'd argue an anti-vaxxer causes more damage than any "traditional" terrorist.
I'd argue that kind of rhetoric is dangerous and needs to be called out. As soon as one starts to compare others to terrorists, when they say something they bad, unless perhaps it is advocating physical acts of terrorism, then they've either lost all sense of perspective, or are trying to scare and anger people.
The truth is, pushing a dangerous vaccine is just as harmful, as claiming a safe and effective one is bad. If we take your idea that being against any vaccine is as bad as terrorism, then there's a huge danger people will be killed and injured from bad vaccines, because important safety signals are ignored.
Every society as a whole gets the government/leadership it deserves, If people vote for the corrupt why do they complain afterwards? The problem is for the few that can see through the false promises as just people pleasing and accept reality and work with reality rather than the one that propaganda politics produces, but are stuck with what the majority want.
And what information do they use to pick the government? Mostly the mainstream media, who are strongly influenced by the government.
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LMAO
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You still haven't backed up your ludicrous idea that an anti-vaxer can cause more harm than a terrorist.
Hmm. Well, we can probably calculate this.
How many people has terrorism killed in the UK? Well, since the end of the Troubles, in any given year it's typically less than 50 (rough source: imgur.com/o5LBSIc). For devil's advocate reasons, let's assume 50 per year.
How many people has COVID likely killed? Officially, the death count is around 225k since the start three years ago, but let's assume that the real death figure is half that to be generous, because there will be cases where someone was near death and Covid was a likely but not certain cause of death. I'll also ignore long Covid and general sickness too, for which cases we know the vaccine is generally beneficial. So I'll just assume around 50,000 deaths per year for this figure to get a lower bound.
We know the vaccine reduces deaths by 90%, even if its effectiveness at reducing the spread of the virus is less than was expected. This is evident in the data (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths) - the death rate and infection rates have fallen by around this figure since the rollout of the vaccine despite all restrictions now disappearing. We also know that, overall, death rates across all cohorts have returned to normal (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21april2023). So, if the vaccine is killing people (and, yes, vaccine sickness and deaths do happen, I'm not denying that) then it's seemingly a fairly minimal phenomenon.
So all an anti-vaxxer needs to do is convince around 0.018% of the UK population to not get vaccinated (assuming an IFR of ~0.5% in the unvaccinated cohort and ~0.05% in the vaccinated cohort) and they've statistically killed more people than even the worst case assumptions about terrorism would for one year. Whilst any individual anti-vaxxer is not likely to be a concern, if they were a popular figure and had more than around 12,000 followers and were able to convince those people to not be vaccinated (when they otherwise would) then they are more dangerous than all the terrorists that strike in any given year. They're even worse, really, because those who have been convinced that the vaccine is dangerous will likely remain unvaccinated for life, and will spread further disinformation.
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We know the vaccine reduces deaths by 90%, even if its effectiveness at reducing the spread of the virus is less than was expected. This is evident in the data (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths) - the death rate and infection rates have fallen by around this figure since the rollout of the vaccine despite all restrictions now disappearing. We also know that, overall, death rates across all cohorts have returned to normal (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21april2023). So, if the vaccine is killing people (and, yes, vaccine sickness and deaths do happen, I'm not denying that) then it's seemingly a fairly minimal phenomenon.
no, they have not.
from your own source for the last week
1.Main points
In the week ending 21 April 2023 (Week 16) 12,420 deaths were registered in England and Wales; 538 of these deaths mentioned novel coronavirus (COVID-19), accounting for 4.3% of all deaths.
This is an increase in all deaths compared with the week ending 14 April 2023 when the number of all-cause deaths registered was 9,978; COVID-19 accounted for 465 of these deaths (4.7%).
Of the 538 deaths involving COVID-19 in Week 16, 66.5% (358 deaths) had this recorded as the underlying cause of death, which was a greater proportion when compared with Week 15 (65.8%).
The number of deaths was above the five-year average in private homes (29.0% above, 771 excess deaths), hospitals (20.2% above, 924 excess deaths), care homes (25.3% above, 525 excess deaths) and other settings (11.7% above, 92 excess deaths).
The number of deaths registered in the UK in the week ending 21 April 2023 (Week 16) was 14,024, which was 22.1% above the five-year average (2,540 excess deaths); of these deaths, 615 involved COVID-19.
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We know the vaccine reduces deaths by 90%, even if its effectiveness at reducing the spread of the virus is less than was expected. This is evident in the data (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths) - the death rate and infection rates have fallen by around this figure since the rollout of the vaccine despite all restrictions now disappearing. We also know that, overall, death rates across all cohorts have returned to normal (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21april2023). So, if the vaccine is killing people (and, yes, vaccine sickness and deaths do happen, I'm not denying that) then it's seemingly a fairly minimal phenomenon.
no, they have not.
from your own source for the last week [...]
OK. Fair point. COVID deaths have spiked up as another wave comes through, and COVID hasn't totally disappeared - but it still doesn't change the thrust of the argument. Look at the COVID-19 attributed death rate in the UK gov data. The fall is approximately 90% despite restrictions being removed. We had a peak of 9,000 deaths per week with some of the strictest restrictions the UK has ever seen, like not *legally* being able to visit family for Christmas and so on. The following year only advice was given on meeting up in the private home, and socialisation levels had returned to normal amounts, yet the death rate rarely broke 1,000 per week. That's the power of vaccination. (Note: Venues were still required to check vaccination status before allowing entry - that restriction ended in Mar 2022 for most of the UK.)
We're going to be living with COVID for a very long time, possibly for the rest of our lives, but we've managed to find a very effective way to manage it. I know some, I would call them extreme individuals, continue to advocate for restrictions but we're now at the level where we accept this as a cost of living without the restrictions. I would have said they should have ended earlier than they did, but I can see that's only apparent in hindsight as we didn't know how effective the vaccine would be at mass scale or if variants would defeat it (they so far have not managed to do so.)
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COVID is the new Godwin's law as it seems. Any thread long enough ends up with something about COVID, and then gets locked. :popcorn:
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Geez ... some of us got a little off topic in another thread and got a warning from the higher ups. And this goes all COVID which was supposed to be a big no-no and nothing happens?
I just don't get it. :-//
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Geez ... some of us got a little off topic in another thread and got a warning from the higher ups. And this goes all COVID which was supposed to be a big no-no and nothing happens?
I just don't get it. :-//
I guess we just went with YouTube rules....
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Geez ... some of us got a little off topic in another thread and got a warning from the higher ups. And this goes all COVID which was supposed to be a big no-no and nothing happens?
I just don't get it. :-//
Well Dave isn't omnipotent. If somebody flags the posts and he notices then he'll probably delete them or give a warning.
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Geez ... some of us got a little off topic in another thread and got a warning from the higher ups. And this goes all COVID which was supposed to be a big no-no and nothing happens?
I just don't get it. :-//
Well Dave isn't omnipotent. If somebody flags the posts and he notices then he'll probably delete them or give a warning.
He has to be omnipotent to notice all this off-topic junk in a thread he participates in all the time? Give me a break.
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I'm sorry but we just engaged the free speech drive....
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Come on guys, a couple of pages of covid now isn't needed.
How about those house prices huh...
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I find it amazing how house prices in places with steady employment opportunity just go up and up and up. I remember in the coal mining areas, when a fair while ago the coal mines were struggling, they were actually removing houses from the coal mining towns. Then the coal mines boomed and mine workers were rolling in money and house prices went really ballistic even for your typical 1970's fibro shack.
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Fran has a video that will release shortly with some stats.
Green line is Youtube revenue, it's in the toilet. But Patreon is still the majority of course, so Youtube income is secondary.
She said June will be the twice yearly fundraising month.
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You still haven't backed up your ludicrous idea that an anti-vaxer can cause more harm than a terrorist.
Hmm. Well, we can probably calculate this.
How many people has terrorism killed in the UK? Well, since the end of the Troubles, in any given year it's typically less than 50 (rough source: imgur.com/o5LBSIc). For devil's advocate reasons, let's assume 50 per year.
How many people has COVID likely killed? Officially, the death count is around 225k since the start three years ago, but let's assume that the real death figure is half that to be generous, because there will be cases where someone was near death and Covid was a likely but not certain cause of death. I'll also ignore long Covid and general sickness too, for which cases we know the vaccine is generally beneficial. So I'll just assume around 50,000 deaths per year for this figure to get a lower bound.
We know the vaccine reduces deaths by 90%, even if its effectiveness at reducing the spread of the virus is less than was expected. This is evident in the data (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths) - the death rate and infection rates have fallen by around this figure since the rollout of the vaccine despite all restrictions now disappearing. We also know that, overall, death rates across all cohorts have returned to normal (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21april2023). So, if the vaccine is killing people (and, yes, vaccine sickness and deaths do happen, I'm not denying that) then it's seemingly a fairly minimal phenomenon.
You're wrong. The excess deaths have not returned to normal. If you look at the link you've posted, they're shockingly high, yet the mainstream media are silent.
- The number of deaths was above the five-year average in private homes (29.0% above, 771 excess deaths), hospitals (20.2% above, 924 excess deaths), care homes (25.3% above, 525 excess deaths) and other settings (11.7% above, 92 excess deaths).
- The number of deaths registered in the UK in the week ending 21 April 2023 (Week 16) was 14,024, which was 22.1% above the five-year average (2,540 excess deaths); of these deaths, 615 involved COVID-19.
So all an anti-vaxxer needs to do is convince around 0.018% of the UK population to not get vaccinated (assuming an IFR of ~0.5% in the unvaccinated cohort and ~0.05% in the vaccinated cohort) and they've statistically killed more people than even the worst case assumptions about terrorism would for one year. Whilst any individual anti-vaxxer is not likely to be a concern, if they were a popular figure and had more than around 12,000 followers and were able to convince those people to not be vaccinated (when they otherwise would) then they are more dangerous than all the terrorists that strike in any given year. They're even worse, really, because those who have been convinced that the vaccine is dangerous will likely remain unvaccinated for life, and will spread further disinformation.
You've got to balance that against the number of years of life lost due to adverse events. The virus disproportionately killed old and sick people, whilst the vaccines had a higher rate of adverse events in the young and healthy, in which the virus posed negligible threat. The deaths due to the virus were overestimated, yet the vaccine injuries underestimated.
The overzealous vaccine policy has also killed people, who clearly didn't need it. Those who had already been infected, in whom the IFR is tiny and the vaccines haven't shown to be beneficial, then the boosters which lacked a clinical double-blind randomised, placebo controlled trials.
It's not a matter of being anti-vax. Suppose the concerns medical professionals had about these new technologies (mRNA and adenovirus vector) were listened to and a safer vaccine, based on traditional inactivated viral proteins was approved and rolled-out instead? The problem with these new technologies is they rely on the human body to produce the antigen, so the dose cannote be determined. It's also why the rate of adverse events have been higher in the young, since more healthy bodies will produce more spike protein.
We know the vaccine reduces deaths by 90%, even if its effectiveness at reducing the spread of the virus is less than was expected. This is evident in the data (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths) - the death rate and infection rates have fallen by around this figure since the rollout of the vaccine despite all restrictions now disappearing. We also know that, overall, death rates across all cohorts have returned to normal (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending21april2023). So, if the vaccine is killing people (and, yes, vaccine sickness and deaths do happen, I'm not denying that) then it's seemingly a fairly minimal phenomenon.
no, they have not.
from your own source for the last week [...]
OK. Fair point. COVID deaths have spiked up as another wave comes through, and COVID hasn't totally disappeared - but it still doesn't change the thrust of the argument. Look at the COVID-19 attributed death rate in the UK gov data. The fall is approximately 90% despite restrictions being removed. We had a peak of 9,000 deaths per week with some of the strictest restrictions the UK has ever seen, like not *legally* being able to visit family for Christmas and so on. The following year only advice was given on meeting up in the private home, and socialisation levels had returned to normal amounts, yet the death rate rarely broke 1,000 per week. That's the power of vaccination. (Note: Venues were still required to check vaccination status before allowing entry - that restriction ended in Mar 2022 for most of the UK.)
We're going to be living with COVID for a very long time, possibly for the rest of our lives, but we've managed to find a very effective way to manage it. I know some, I would call them extreme individuals, continue to advocate for restrictions but we're now at the level where we accept this as a cost of living without the restrictions. I would have said they should have ended earlier than they did, but I can see that's only apparent in hindsight as we didn't know how effective the vaccine would be at mass scale or if variants would defeat it (they so far have not managed to do so.)
No it doesn't prove it's anything to do with vaccination. It might also be due to the fact 95% of people have been exposed to the virus now. Other countries who didn't vaccinate their populations have similar figures.
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COVID is the new Godwin's law as it seems. Any thread long enough ends up with something about COVID, and then gets locked. :popcorn:
Actually, it's important to remember that neonazis disproportionatly opposed COVID countermeasures.
I, for one, got triple vaccinated to demonstrate that I don't support invading Poland.
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Come on guys, a couple of pages of covid now isn't needed.
How about those house prices huh...
Sorry. I won't post any more.
Fran has a video that will release shortly with some stats.
Green line is Youtube revenue, it's in the toilet. But Patreon is still the majority of course, so Youtube income is secondary.
She said June will be the twice yearly fundraising month.
I lost interest in Fran's channel and unsubscribed awhile ago. It seemed to have become less about electronics and more just old films and stuff which I found boring. No doubt Fran will be bailed out again by fans, but I wouldn't help anyone who doesn't listen and try to help themselves.
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Sorry. I won't post any more.
Easily said after you've had the last (very long) word.
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Sorry. I won't post any more.
Easily said after you've had the last (very long) word.
I only noticed Dave's post, after I'd hit the reply button.
Going back to property prices: I've heard prices have fallen in parts of the US, because not so much office space is required, as more people are continiuing to work from home. Relocating is the only sane option.
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Going back to property prices: I've heard prices have fallen in parts of the US, because not so much office space is required, as more people are continiuing to work from home. Relocating is the only sane option.
Was just talking to a US friend who wants to move house in the same suburb for school reasons, but prices haven't dropped, and the interest rate has gone up 3 fold so now it's pretty unaffordium.
Yes, relocating to another city/state could fix this, but extreme measure and can't because of work.
Again, $150k minimum bid for 3500sqft on a nice 1/3 acre rural property with no one to bother you. You just have to be willing to move.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/95-Swamp-Bridge-Rd-Denver-PA-17517/9687315_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/95-Swamp-Bridge-Rd-Denver-PA-17517/9687315_zpid/?)
Another one, $150k
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/768-N-32nd-St-Lebanon-PA-17046/86540610_zpid/ (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/768-N-32nd-St-Lebanon-PA-17046/86540610_zpid/)
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In Toronto, $150K will get you a cardboard box in a back alley but the taxes will kill you.
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Jesus. they are cheap houses. And you get the bonus of all the freedoms as well.
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Jesus. they are cheap houses. And you get the bonus of all the freedoms as well.
And just a 1 hour drive from Philly. Never have to worry about eviction, finances, or getting killed on the streets again.
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The $150k for both of those is auction starting price. I think they will probably go for a bit more, are there completed/sold housing prices for the area available?
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Jesus. they are cheap houses. And you get the bonus of all the freedoms as well.
And just a 1 hour drive from Philly. Never have to worry about eviction, finances, or getting killed on the streets again.
They look pretty cool.
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The $150k for both of those is auction starting price. I think they will probably go for a bit more, are there completed/sold housing prices for the area available?
I've posted heaps before.
Check for oyurself, all houses sold under $200k and over 2000sqft in the Philly region. You just have to be willing to trade whatever lifestyle/comfort you gain by living in downtown Philly, to being a 1hr or less drive away.
https://bit.ly/3O0KDHh
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Just a completely randon one I chose. $160k 2400sqft
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/403-Augusta-Dr-E-Sinking-Spring-PA-19608/8925107_zpid/? (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/403-Augusta-Dr-E-Sinking-Spring-PA-19608/8925107_zpid/?)
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Just to compare prices. Here is a place I quickly found in the region of the world I live in. Probably go partly underwater in a big flood. Crocodiles and mosquitos and sandflies thrown in for free.
https://www.realestate.com.au/property-lifestyle-qld-glendale-700235584 (https://www.realestate.com.au/property-lifestyle-qld-glendale-700235584)
There is a Jaycar probably 20 minutes drive away where you can buy a single 555 for AU$2.50. You will not be getting a $50 oscilloscope in this area.
BUT, with a grade 10 education would let you get a job in the coal mines and get your AU$120 000 a year driving a dump truck, if you could put up with it. Or you could get a job with big pay tightening bolts on the huge number of fully imported wind turbine construction projects in the region. (just drove past a huge new shiny tesla battery pack facility yesterday, rows of shipping container sized things with Tesla on the side, did not see any of them on fire yet :D ).
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Just to compare prices. Here is a place I quickly found in the region of the world I live in. Probably go partly underwater in a big flood. Crocodiles and mosquitos and sandflies thrown in for free.
https://www.realestate.com.au/property-lifestyle-qld-glendale-700235584 (https://www.realestate.com.au/property-lifestyle-qld-glendale-700235584)
Yeah, that's goneski in a flood.
You would not get a free standing home under AU$300k within 3 hours drive of Sydney for example. And even then, houses in that price range are dumps.
This is the kind of thing you can expect:
https://www.domain.com.au/1058-frogmore-road-frogmore-nsw-2586-2018312538 (https://www.domain.com.au/1058-frogmore-road-frogmore-nsw-2586-2018312538)
Basically, Fran is absolutely spoiled for choice of affordable homes outside of Philly. Many are very nice indeed.
Still the problem of getting that loan though, and actually overcoming the reasons keeping her in certain areas of downtown Philly.
There are even very affordable places (dumps) in downtown Philly for like $100k, but I don't blame her for not wanting to live in one of those areas.
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[
https://www.domain.com.au/1058-frogmore-road-frogmore-nsw-2586-2018312538 (https://www.domain.com.au/1058-frogmore-road-frogmore-nsw-2586-2018312538)
From the link -->>"Old 3 bedroom homestead (circ 100 yrs old) suit anyone handy to complete"
:-DD Is the first tool you pick up a box of matches?
Or be more discrete. You charge your Samsung Galaxy Note 7 in the house. :D
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Just to compare prices. Here is a place I quickly found in the region of the world I live in. Probably go partly underwater in a big flood. Crocodiles and mosquitos and sandflies thrown in for free.
https://www.realestate.com.au/property-lifestyle-qld-glendale-700235584 (https://www.realestate.com.au/property-lifestyle-qld-glendale-700235584)
Yeah, that's goneski in a flood.
You would not get a free standing home under AU$300k within 3 hours drive of Sydney for example. And even then, houses in that price range are dumps.
This is the kind of thing you can expect:
https://www.domain.com.au/1058-frogmore-road-frogmore-nsw-2586-2018312538 (https://www.domain.com.au/1058-frogmore-road-frogmore-nsw-2586-2018312538)
Basically, Fran is absolutely spoiled for choice of affordable homes outside of Philly. Many are very nice indeed.
Still the problem of getting that loan though, and actually overcoming the reasons keeping her in certain areas of downtown Philly.
There are even very affordable places (dumps) in downtown Philly for like $100k, but I don't blame her for not wanting to live in one of those areas.
Aussie housing prices are crazy! :o For $300k AUD equivalent you could get brick terrace 2-3 bed houses around here, or 1-2 bed flats, about 1.5hr from the capital. Not amazing places to live, but better than a metal shack!
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Aussie housing prices are crazy! :o For $300k AUD equivalent you could get brick terrace 2-3 bed houses around here, or 1-2 bed flats, about 1.5hr from the capital. Not amazing places to live, but better than a metal shack!
Like I said, that's a minimum of three hours drive outside of Sydney.
I've done a video on the cheapest standalone house in Sydney:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMS_WQ8NFHY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMS_WQ8NFHY)
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Fran has announced on Patreon she is taking some time off to work on new revenue options for the channel. As obviously the daily grind adsense income isn't looking like it's worth the effort.
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In Fran's latest video on Patreon she said she lost 15% of Patrons in the two weeks she took off. Ouch.
And how Youtube is now promoting Youtube Promotions now (i.e. pay them to promote your channel), and she suspects that might be the reason why her monetisation numbers have dropped. Just like they did a few years ago when they lied about not treating Youtube unmonetised channels any different in the algorithm. She might be onto something there, I need to check it out.
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In Fran's latest video on Patreon she said she lost 15% of Patrons in the two weeks she took off. Ouch.
And how Youtube is now promoting Youtube Promotions now (i.e. pay them to promote your channel), and she suspects that might be the reason why her monetisation numbers have dropped. Just like they did a few years ago when they lied about not treating Youtube unmonetised channels any different in the algorithm. She might be onto something there, I need to check it out.
She seems to be indicating, that this may end up slowly ending Youtubes hold, on videos, especially creators who are currently using Youtube as their outlet, except for the very rich channels, who get very large sponsorship money, so they can pay Youtube, to promote their videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykUYpWa5TA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykUYpWa5TA)
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This is a trend that I'm seeing on other platforms as well, so certainly something to keep an eye on.
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She seems to be indicating, that this may end up slowly ending Youtubes hold, on videos, especially creators who are currently using Youtube as their outlet, except for the very rich channels, who get very large sponsorship money, so they can pay Youtube, to promote their videos.
I have started a small scale test to find out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1s_BTugNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1s_BTugNk)
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So the plan is new merch and quarterly Patron drives. Fingers crossed.
BTW, I'm interviewing someone in half an hour for the merch role I advertised. She sounds like just the ticket. So unless I get any red flags, she'll start today.
So expect to see my ancient mech getting revived in the coming weeks.
The plan is the role pays for itself and my audience gets new and better merch options.
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I smell a rat race like paying Google for putting your website at the top of the list for search results. It can pay off but it is very costly. Likely only affordable by channels that have good sponsorship deals.
And since it is experimentation time: how about advertising a Youtube channel on pron websites? These get huge amounts of traffic and advertising is dirt cheap per click volume. And don't get wound up about difference in subject matter. Advertising like this is just like advertising on TV. You are watching a Star Wars movie and -bam- there is a lady promoting tooth paste. Back when I was still in the web-design business I did a similar experiment and it did result in an increased number of visits to the website (even though it was not pron related at all).
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And since it is experimentation time: how about advertising a Youtube channel on pron websites?
Paid advertising is a mugs game.
I'm just curious to test the direction that Youtube might be headed.
They have a recent new CEO, so maybe this is part of that change.
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So the plan is new merch and quarterly Patron drives. Fingers crossed.
BTW, I'm interviewing someone in half an hour for the merch role I advertised. She sounds like just the ticket. So unless I get any red flags, she'll start today.
So expect to see my ancient mech getting revived in the coming weeks.
The plan is the role pays for itself and my audience gets new and better merch options.
If you offer merch, don't bungle it like Elliot over at Hackaday did. Tee shirts - he ran out of the popular sizes, then put only women's tees on sale etc. How hard is it to have a few tee shirts in stock? Too hard apparently and then he killed off the merch store entirely. Dave is the only person who has one of their t-shirts lol.
As a revenue model, now he pimps out maker's projects on hackaday.io (https://hackaday.io) and he's not making money off the projects that I can see. I'd say he's doing it wrong, I sorta dislike the site and can't see it being sustainable especially with Autodesk et. al meddling in there as well.
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If you offer merch, don't bungle it like Elliot over at Hackaday did. Tee shirts - he ran out of the popular sizes, then put only women's tees on sale etc. How hard is it to have a few tee shirts in stock? Too hard apparently and then he killed off the merch store entirely. Dave is the only person who has one of their t-shirts lol.
As a revenue model, now he pimps out maker's projects on hackaday.io (https://hackaday.io) and he's not making money off the projects that I can see. I'd say he's doing it wrong, I sorta dislike the site and can't see it being sustainable especially with Autodesk et. al meddling in there as well.
Didn't Hackaday get sold to SupplyFrame?
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I forgot about SupplyFrame and see he's still there as Editor in Chief, an author doing articles.
Can't see how the site makes money.
I mention it because there are some electronics sites that really seem to be on life support from the parent corp. AutoDesk included.
It seems to distort what constitutes a successful venture.
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If you offer merch, don't bungle it like Elliot over at Hackaday did. Tee shirts - he ran out of the popular sizes, then put only women's tees on sale etc. How hard is it to have a few tee shirts in stock? Too hard apparently and then he killed off the merch store entirely.
Running out of popular sizes and putting the slower-running combinations on sale is 100% normal.
I work on the fulfillment software (manufacturing and logistics) side of a company that sells mass customized products, including apparel. The reason a lot of the T-shirt industry has gone to print-on-demand, direct-to-garment for merch sales is that it is hard to simultaneously not ever run out of some sizes of some designs and make merch profitable overall without tying up a huge amount of capital in slow-turning inventory.
You're going to sell a fair number of M and lot of L and XL unfitted ("mens") shirts in ash, dark blue, and black. If you sell those regularly, you'll get to know how to order them to keep them in stock. How many pink 4XLs are you going to sell a month? How many orange XSs? Even without going to odd colors, the combinatoric of size, color, design, fitted/unfitted gets to be pretty large. Eventually, when you discontinue the product or start winding it down to get warehouse shelf space back, you're going to run sales on the shirts you have to get rid of them.
There's a reason Amazon can offer such a huge selection of T-shirts and designs while rarely running out: https://www.asicentral.com/news/web-exclusive/september-2020/amazon-expands-print-on-demand-with-kornit-deal/ (https://www.asicentral.com/news/web-exclusive/september-2020/amazon-expands-print-on-demand-with-kornit-deal/) (Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with Amazon's capability here [other than sometimes buying shirts from them]; I work for a competitor in this space, but it's easier to cite an Amazon-related press release.)
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She seems to be indicating, that this may end up slowly ending Youtubes hold, on videos, especially creators who are currently using Youtube as their outlet, except for the very rich channels, who get very large sponsorship money, so they can pay Youtube, to promote their videos.
I have started a small scale test to find out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1s_BTugNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1s_BTugNk)
My worry, from the consumer (Youtube watcher), point of view. Is that when I search for relatively essential videos, for specific reasons.
These days, after watching the searched for video (which stands a too high probability of having significant paid for promotions within the video, anyway). Instead of seeing a pile of optional, scrollable thumbnail videos, very strongly related to the original searched item(s).
These is a huge selection of Youtube's special list of favoured/promoted what Youtube want to present to you videos.
I find that VERY annoying. Because I want to just concentrate on the very directly related subject area, because I'm doing stuff and need to know. E.g. What is the best/favourite/recommended PCB autorouter, in use today, and why. If you must use them, as many recommend against using them, especially for doing the complete design.
Instead it seems to shows video links for a pile of other stuff, which (at other times, I admit is stuff I would watch), but I specifically did the direct search, because I just want to know more about modern day PCB autorouters (hypothetically, not other/leisure stuff etc).
I do seem to have noticed that if you are using a relatively anonymous browser situation. E.g. A brand new fresh OS install. It does seem to give, considerably better, much more directly related results. But I shouldn't need to do that.
E.g. They should have a control at the top, that says something like 'Only show very closely related videos in this suggestion box column' or 'It's ok to show less well related videos' or 'show me anything that you think I may like'.
I suppose in summary. It (Youtube), is heading to be much more like TV channels, with their mass advertising, product placements in some programmes kind of thing.
Rather than a very useful, specific tool, for researching very specific information. Such as the best scope probes to buy, etc.
I.e. They are centring Youtube around their own desires to make as much money as possible, and don't really care about the consumers at all.
In my case, I try and concentrate on finding the Youtube video links myself, e.g. via google or Youtube websites, search features and/or keep a list of liked channels as bookmarks, which I periodically trawl through, rather than relying on Youtubes own methods, which seem to be extremely biased, because of 'the Youtubes Algorithm' reasons, which Fran seems to rather often, talk about.
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My worry, from the consumer (Youtube watcher), point of view. Is that when I search for relatively essential videos, for specific reasons.
These days, after watching the searched for video (which stands a too high probability of having significant paid for promotions within the video, anyway). Instead of seeing a pile of optional, scrollable thumbnail videos, very strongly related to the original searched item(s).
While I do not see youtube ads on my PC, on the tablet I actually get to see youtube showing you an ad every 30 seconds. Before the video, during and after it is all watch such and such a movie, buy such and such at JBHifi, vote yes for the voice, and all this shit like that I have no interest in.
So now youtube not only bore their watchers with annoying useless ads about something you are not interested in, they are going to take money from the creators so the watchers get an even less usable experience as they get blasted in the face with all these useless search results based on who pays the most to youtube.
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I agree with that. I only use Youtube as a source of instruction videos on how to specifically make/fix something or for specific product reviews.
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While I do not see youtube ads on my PC, on the tablet I actually get to see youtube showing you an ad every 30 seconds. Before the video, during and after it is all watch such and such a movie, buy such and such at JBHifi, vote yes for the voice, and all this shit like that I have no interest in.
So now youtube not only bore their watchers with annoying useless ads about something you are not interested in, they are going to take money from the creators so the watchers get an even less usable experience as they get blasted in the face with all these useless search results based on who pays the most to youtube.
My fear (as a consumer of Youtube videos), is that it seems to be a "Race to the bottom", type of concept. Making Youtube, an ever less and less useful appliance/engine for useful (consumer) things.
I know there are various upcoming alternatives to Youtube. But if that splinters into many different organisations/systems, with partly differing characteristics. That makes it harder for consumers to use such things.
Analogy:
There is one ebay.
If ebay disappeared, and there were ten, competitors/replacements. It would end up being tricky. As, sellers would have to choose between ten different platforms, rather than just sticking to one (ebay).
Buyers, instead of just searching/looking on ebay, would have to trawl through ten different platforms, and have to learn about ten different platforms. Possibly have to register their credit card details on ten different platforms.
Have to contend with ten different feedback systems, with far fewer actual feedback ratings per seller. Perhaps 5 instead of 750 on the real ebay. 750 shows a decent trend, of trustworthy or not. But just 5 feedbacks is too few, to make a reliable decision on the sellers trustworthiness.
There are rumours/worries, that at some point, Youtube (Google), may stop people with ad-blockers, permanently and without warning. Forcing users to either pay for the premium Youtube services or accept adverts (or move their watching activities to other platforms).
Even the fact that Youtube removed normal users ability to look at the dislike totals, is a nuisance. As it stops people who are looking for serious/reliable to the point videos, to look for low/zero count dislike videos as one of the indicators of quality.
The thing is (the customer is always right), if downward (worsening) changes in Youtube, continue. Making many users, use other platforms/methods/etc, in effect moving away from Youtube.
That fundamentally affects Youtube creators. Because if huge chunks of their user-base, disappears from Youtube. Then that effectively is a significant loss of customer base. Which could leave the better Youtube channels to choose between shutting down, accepting almost no monetary rewards for their activities, making horrible Tik-tock like (Shorts) videos all the time, or just succumbing to doing massive paid sponsorship deals.
I can accept that I'm not describing this thing, in a perfectly coherent manner (I'm not a Youtube expert), and I'm mainly only speaking for myself. But I'm going to be disappointed, if a large number of the Youtube channels, which I currently like, either disappear, significantly change (perhaps for the worse), or other things happen.
I suppose another analogy is Windows. Which to me, seems to show how badly a company can ruin their product (e.g. Windows 11). As I type this up, on some version of Linux.
Maybe we need a LinuxYouTube variant, which I suppose some of the upcoming Youtube variants, effectively are becoming.
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These days, after watching the searched for video (which stands a too high probability of having significant paid for promotions within the video, anyway). Instead of seeing a pile of optional, scrollable thumbnail videos, very strongly related to the original searched item(s).
These is a huge selection of Youtube's special list of favoured/promoted what Youtube want to present to you videos.
I find that VERY annoying. Because I want to just concentrate on the very directly related subject area, because I'm doing stuff and need to know. E.g. What is the best/favourite/recommended PCB autorouter, in use today, and why. If you must use them, as many recommend against using them, especially for doing the complete design.
Instead it seems to shows video links for a pile of other stuff, which (at other times, I admit is stuff I would watch), but I specifically did the direct search, because I just want to know more about modern day PCB autorouters (hypothetically, not other/leisure stuff etc).
Youtube recently recomended an excellent 282 sub electronics channel to me:
https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1663394706531954688 (https://twitter.com/eevblog/status/1663394706531954688)
https://www.youtube.com/@eryjus4594 (https://www.youtube.com/@eryjus4594)
So the algorithm is still doing a good job in some regards.
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Yeahh, I see what you mean...Ironically, after your most recent video ended, (see above), YouTube put a few 'suggested views':
First suggested video, after yours ended, was
'Grandmother plays Chess in New York park'
Now, how is that not relevant, to an Electronics Blog ? (Sarcasm, don't answer that)
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So the algorithm is still doing a good job in some regards.
I get the impression, the 'algorithm' knew full well, the exact video(s) to present to me, to help me with the somewhat rare (OS related) specific videos I was seeking.
So, in frustration with Youtube, I tried Odysee, with a different, fairly unrelated (still OS related, I think) search. After watching the first video they had, it (despite supposedly having no knowledge about my previous google video or Youtube searches), was able to recommend as the very next video, one which fixed my previous (OS related) problem.
I.e. Google must have passed the information on to Odysee. Presumably for trying to blast me with relevant adverts and stuff. Anyway, weird or amazing coincidence.
Edited: To make shorter.
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MK14, I wonder if cookies set on the browser you accessed Youtube were simply re-used by Odysee.
When I am doing these types of activities I use browser separation - i.e., Google products go their own sandbox (Google Chrome browser). Most of my other activities go on Firefox (including Odysee), with a few irrelevant activities on Chromium ungoogled.
It is not a straightforward thing and some self-control is always required - i.e., never run a Youtube video or use Google search on Firefox, for example.
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MK14, I wonder if cookies set on the browser you accessed Youtube were simply re-used by Odysee.
When I am doing these types of activities I use browser separation - i.e., Google products go their own sandbox (Google Chrome browser). Most of my other activities go on Firefox (including Odysee), with a few irrelevant activities on Chromium ungoogled.
It is not a straightforward thing and some self-control is always required - i.e., never run a Youtube video or use Google search on Firefox, for example.
That's a very good point!
You could well be right. That is a very good idea!
There are also, alternative search engines, such as duckduckgo, which at least claim to be relatively private.
The big complication, is sometimes the communications (cookies etc), help me. As I'm offered (when not busy), a range of potentially interesting videos.
But at other times, when busy, where I ONLY want the specific video and very closely related videos, to solve a particular problem. E.g. Difficulties with an OS.
Ironically (when I have the time available), the video selections, can offer some very interesting videos, which I didn't know existed.
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MK14, I wonder if cookies set on the browser you accessed Youtube were simply re-used by Odysee.
When I am doing these types of activities I use browser separation - i.e., Google products go their own sandbox (Google Chrome browser). Most of my other activities go on Firefox (including Odysee), with a few irrelevant activities on Chromium ungoogled.
It is not a straightforward thing and some self-control is always required - i.e., never run a Youtube video or use Google search on Firefox, for example.
That's a very good point!
You could well be right. That is a very good idea!
Indeed it is, but I can't be credited for it. This guy Rob Braxman gave me this tip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3_Em4S99g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3_Em4S99g)
There are also, alternative search engines, such as duckduckgo, which at least claim to be relatively private.
Indeed they have a bit less tracking mechanisms, but they are unfortunately not 100% private. My main search is duckduckgo, followed by startpage and then google search. Here's another video from the same guy that talks about the levels of privacy of several popular search engines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7oOqGy5ek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7oOqGy5ek)
Ironically (when I have the time available), the video selections, can offer some very interesting videos, which I didn't know existed.
Indeed. I use suggestions all the time since I don't subscribe to every channel.
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MK14, I wonder if cookies set on the browser you accessed Youtube were simply re-used by Odysee.
When I am doing these types of activities I use browser separation - i.e., Google products go their own sandbox (Google Chrome browser). Most of my other activities go on Firefox (including Odysee), with a few irrelevant activities on Chromium ungoogled.
It is not a straightforward thing and some self-control is always required - i.e., never run a Youtube video or use Google search on Firefox, for example.
That's a very good point!
You could well be right. That is a very good idea!
Indeed it is, but I can't be credited for it. This guy Rob Braxman gave me this tip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3_Em4S99g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z3_Em4S99g)
There are also, alternative search engines, such as duckduckgo, which at least claim to be relatively private.
Indeed they have a bit less tracking mechanisms, but they are unfortunately not 100% private. My main search is duckduckgo, followed by startpage and then google search. Here's another video from the same guy that talks about the levels of privacy of several popular search engines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7oOqGy5ek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7oOqGy5ek)
Ironically (when I have the time available), the video selections, can offer some very interesting videos, which I didn't know existed.
Indeed. I use suggestions all the time since I don't subscribe to every channel.
Thanks!
I've enjoyed watching both videos, and learned a lot from them. They seem to have useful information, to improve my privacy on the internet, in the future. It is interesting food for thought.
It is especially interesting to know (from the videos), why even those 'better/safer' search options, still involve ad-information transfers etc (trackers).
It seems (as the video(s) discussed). Easy of use/life choices and absolute privacy, are a fine balancing act, so practical/sensible life choices/balances, may need to be reached.