Author Topic: FranLab is getting evicted  (Read 26861 times)

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Offline tpowell1830

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FranLab is getting evicted
« on: October 06, 2018, 12:11:38 am »
Seems that Fran has a lot of things going against her. I have been watching her channel for a couple of years and these crises seem to vex her. Serendipity is a double edged sword and sometimes the writing on the wall is a specific message i.e. in this case it is saying to move out of Philly.

Fran, if you are reading, I wish you well and hope you find a peaceful place.


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Offline EEVblog

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FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 11:18:15 am »
Not good:

I recon we could crowd source finding a new place for her if she lets us know the budget and requirements.

 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 11:46:02 am »
I saw that. The described situation is historically quite common. I have seen quite a number of neighborhoods that for one reason or another get the eye of a developer (or a number of developers) that gob up properties and push people out. This was much worse in certain cities in Brazil, and I still recall near my workplace a very tiny lot with a house inserted in the middle of several skyscrapers - someone probably either too stubborn or deed was lost and recovered only years after the buildings were erected.
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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 12:16:12 pm »
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 02:45:26 pm »
PITA and part of living in the Tenanted world. I have had it happen to me commercially at the end of lease. I was offered a new lease with a 50% hike or else. I suggested impolitely I would be taking the or else option and they could place their bluestone building somewhere appropriate  >:D

No need for outrage or response or campaigns just a sad/annoying event in the quirky, offbeat and slightly kooky (good thing) that is Franlabs  :-+
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Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 02:59:33 pm »
This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 03:03:21 pm »
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
VE7FM
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 03:13:47 pm »
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.

Depends on where the new owners are in the development process.  If they are ready to start site work in a few weeks, then that might be a possibility.
 

Offline tpowell1830

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 04:56:46 pm »
I just hope that she takes it in stride and keeps on with the business of making videos of cool things. Not to mention good guitar music and accessories.

The worst thing to happen would be if she lets it get her down.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 03:03:18 am »
I did not watch the video yet,

But based on what people are writing

Isent this the plot of

« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 03:07:22 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 10:26:59 am »
The downsides of renting.  You're really at the mercy of the landlords/owners and your life can be turned upside down real quick if they make any decisions that affect you.

Hopefully she can somehow find a new place and own it and get set up again but sounds like money is an issue.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2018, 10:52:22 am »
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
There he goes again. :palm: Get help, this obsession isn't healthy or productive.
 
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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2018, 10:57:07 am »
well she does not dress like

wait why am i even

breast implants?

maybe flame thrower boobs like wild wild west? fembots?

 

Online Bud

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 11:06:54 am »
2000 sq ft?  Really for a Lab ?  What she builds rocket engines there?  Or it is also her living place?

I do not see it necessary to live near restaurants and night clubs, and with today's online supplies procurement i see no problems to run a small business from a suburb.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 11:16:08 am »
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department

you get a sales call and you say hold up, let me quote you in 3 days after I verify 15 different parts sources? when someone asks to buy some shit you wanna get back to them as soon as humanly fucking possible with a YES.. and deliver, not wonder if people are  gonna send you sharp fucked up brackets, tomb stoned PCB and have their laser cutter break down.

2000sqft is small for a work shop.

reasonably accessible table saw, mill, drill  press, grinder, lathe, tool cabinets, a few work benches, laser cutter, pick and place, oven occupies all that real fast. add welding, electronics, burn in test area...

a lot of idiots can pack all that stuff real tight but its not good for cleaning, workflow or safety.  yea I am talking to you buddy, with that spectrum analyzer 2 feet away from a bench grinder.

if you wanna get stuff done fast too, you wanna setup your production in a round robin fashion, not have to hire a mathematician to do complex analysis on what route to take. less stress and you can actually focus on doing stuff rather then 'juggling space'

then there is always the 'cad factor'. You can setup jigs quickly to do certain jobs to match what you have in your head without going to a god damn computer to make a drawing, then argue about it over a telephone because you forgot to specify some shit someone wants to know about that you just intrinsically know about (quality of a drilled hole, tolerances (you can just tell or do a quick fit test). Wanna make a few parts fast for a small production? Spending hours making blue prints is not the way to go about it. Maybe a few notes on a post it.

If you have a few people that like being tied up with utter bullshit (stop production because some one gets something thats not absolutely perfect and their a fuckin robot) all the time then sure, you can get by just mailing things to different people.. and it makes some sense on extreme mass production.. but for a smaller business that does custom work???? come on.

theoretically you might be able to squeeze some money out of it, but practically your gonna end up looking like professor xavier
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 11:35:07 am by coppercone2 »
 
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2018, 11:37:40 am »
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...
There he goes again. :palm: Get help, this obsession isn't healthy or productive.
Those two are the only other female tech TV show hosts who have publicly asked for help in recent history. (That I know of anyways.)
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department

you get a sales call and you say hold up, let me quote you in 3 days after I verify 15 different parts sources? when someone asks to buy some shit you wanna get back to them as soon as humanly fucking possible with a YES.. and deliver, not wonder if people are  gonna send you sharp fucked up brackets, tomb stoned PCB and have their laser cutter break down.

2000sqft is small for a work shop.

reasonably accessible table saw, mill, drill  press, grinder, lathe, tool cabinets, a few work benches, laser cutter, pick and place, oven occupies all that real fast. add welding, electronics, burn in test area...

a lot of idiots can pack all that stuff real tight but its not good for cleaning, workflow or safety.  yea I am talking to you buddy, with that spectrum analyzer 2 feet away from a bench grinder.

if you wanna get stuff done fast too, you wanna setup your production in a round robin fashion, not have to hire a mathematician to do complex analysis on what route to take. less stress and you can actually focus on doing stuff rather then 'juggling space'
It's possible to shrink down an electronics lab quite a bit without losing too much functionality (been there, done that), but as you stated that's definitely not true of mechanical shops. Stationary power tools take up a lot of space and there has to be lots of clearance to allow for transport of large workpieces. Not to mention space to store materials.

It's often said that the sort of lab that downsizes the easiest is software - all you need for programming is a computer and there's no shortage of efforts to pack lots of computing power into small spaces. Not to mention cloud services for the stuff that really needs a lot of compute power.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2018, 11:40:49 am »
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 11:42:31 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2018, 11:49:20 am »
Those two are the only other female tech TV show hosts who have publicly asked for help in recent history. (That I know of anyways.)
This has nothing to do with female or not. You're just inventing reasons to mention the Youtube ladies you obsess about again.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2018, 11:50:19 am »
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
There's a lot between climbing on tables and 2000 square feet.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2018, 11:55:40 am »
Given the lack of response compared to what happened with Naomi Wu and Simone Giertz, I guess old ladies in engineering are valued much less than young women in engineering? Sad...

Fran is hardly an old lady you cheeky young whippersnapper you!

Now get off my lawn! Pesky kids!  :)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2018, 12:07:11 pm »
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.

That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.
This has nothing to do with female or not. You're just inventing reasons to mention the Youtube ladies you obsess about again.
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2018, 12:11:16 pm »
you need a big empty relaxing room for that shit , its mentally hard

and it stifles innovation and quality, if you need to climb on tables to plug in equipment ETC (you start to trust whats going on in your head more since its easier).

maybe if your really disciplined. given how much test gear costs it should be accessible and well ventillated
There's a lot between climbing on tables and 2000 square feet.

challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.

like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..

if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories

and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).

You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.

then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.

All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.

i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.

fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 12:32:42 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2018, 01:19:05 pm »
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.

like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..

if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories

and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).

You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.

then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.

All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.

i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.

fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2018, 01:29:47 pm »
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.

That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.

I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2018, 01:58:23 pm »
The key to building a compact electronics lab that works well is to plan ahead. Put more power strip (PDU) outlets on the rack than you expect to ever need. Same goes with networking if you work on a lot of Ethernet connected devices.

That said, even in Silicon Valley (a place infamous for near record housing costs), a studio apartment actually offers quite a bit of space for an electronics lab. It's when it comes to making enclosures for the electronics that the space available suddenly might seem insufficient, but luckily 3D printers are a "good enough" substitute to a complete machine shop for a lot of hobby electronics.

I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.

At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2018, 02:04:46 pm »
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

as soon as you wanna test a more complicated system you need to add more equipment too, more power rails, more scope channels, more data loggers, more processing, more everything.... otherwise you expand without having test ability, which leads to uncertainty, which is bad.

like do it properly with enclosures that actually power themselves not some kind of crap you need to occupy a bench supply with..

if you are advanced different amplitude/power levels, frequency ranges, noise ranges, all occupy space. All the precise DC stuff is different then the low noise DC stuff then the low current DC stuff then the audio stuff and everything has those categories

and don't forget the calibrators.. low noise enviroment, etc (and thats just for up to HF because no one has the budget to do the same stuff with microwaves unless your really big).

You can fit an entire room with just bridges and standards EASILY.

then you get into stuff like mechanical test fixtures, thermal test stuff, ovens, etc......................... yea no I don't want to see a god damn 3 phase motor tested on the same bench as fucking precise RF equipment. Thats dog shit, you need a separate crude bench for that.

All I see is a shortage of money that requires me to pick targets.

i could fill a room to the brim with antennas.

fran tone also does audio equipment. That means you need a proper audio room (or various kinds) to test the sound in to determine realistic use conditions (i,e, stuffed up living room, small hall way, large halls, etc... thats the whole point of her business to find out what works and sell different solutions. You can't do good 'human precpetion' stuff in a limited test setting. you gotta know whats in your customers heads so you can explain whats going on (even stuff like the effect of windows, curtains, etc) and recommend a good solution to them. If your good you would even have furniture test standards to see what different environments you can setup for people.. someone might send you a picture of their living room and ask 'whats a good product for this'? You might end up making mock ups of furniture etc. And her work is supposed to be custom/artistic so the enclosures etc all need to match.. its like having some kind of interior decorator acoustic laboratory just to test the product. Someone likes the decour and their willing to spend to make it sound good even if its total shit for audio quality.. you gotta be able to solve their problem or you lose a customer. Turning your living space into a test area? not the best for your psychology.

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.

and this people, is how your boss keeps costs down

i know your type, your working on a shrink ray aren't you? you wanna run shit out a broom closet to keep rent down
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 02:08:19 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2018, 02:10:59 pm »
looking to hire: ant man
 

Online Bud

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2018, 03:01:25 pm »
uhh some people dont like working in sardine cans and running an effective business means you pay other people as little as possible and if you get the process down yourself then you shorten your supply chain demands. A skilled person can use much less conventional overhead like having production stop because a supplied decided to fuck up.. once you have alot of parts you buy you need a purchasing department that keeps things organized.... and a quality department
...

Now that was a long post but i have no clue why you went to that extreme. It is about one person, not a full blown company  with employees, and the person said it is a Lab (not manufacturing facility).
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2018, 03:05:27 pm »
cuz someone is loosing a work space and lab and people are like nah you dont need that, your backwards, dont know how to use space, etc

ridiculous , i think she has been doing it for like 20 years
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2018, 03:06:35 pm »
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2018, 03:09:26 pm »
obsessive is news paper cutout collages in a dim basement, creepy guys with binoculars and lockpicks, love letters being mailed, dmm's, constant current sinks

this is more like advertising for a particular sub segment of a community
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 03:11:03 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2018, 03:12:22 pm »
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.

I was trying to lighten up the whole thing, and frankly your attitude towards it is a bit obsessive. I don't recall you being appointed as a moderator. it's one thing to call out bullshit, or object to racism, or some other on-the-spot thing that might happen in a normal conversations. It's quite another to announce a campaign where you're declaring that you've decided to moderate a particular user's postings. Some might characterise that as bullying.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2018, 03:18:49 pm »
and this people, is how your boss keeps costs down

i know your type, your working on a shrink ray aren't you? you wanna run shit out a broom closet to keep rent down
What makes you think bosses don't care about output? They generally rent what's required for the staff to do their job properly. Staff tends to be a lot more expensive than rent. You turned that into needing a large amount of square meters or choking your staff productivity, but that's a false dilemma.

It's good to remind ourselves that people simply wondered what all that space is required for, as it's a lot of space for a one woman band. That's a fair question.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2018, 03:28:08 pm »
I was trying to lighten up the whole thing, and frankly your attitude towards it is a bit obsessive. I don't recall you being appointed as a moderator. it's one thing to call out bullshit, or object to racism, or some other on-the-spot thing that might happen in a normal conversations. It's quite another to announce a campaign where you're declaring that you've decided to moderate a particular user's postings. Some might characterise that as bullying.
I didn't quite read the lightening up part in it, but fair enough. My response was a bit tongue in cheek for sure. It should be pretty obvious I'm not moderating anything. I just felt compelled to address an issue that has bothered quite a few forum members before and which they talked to NiHoaMike about before on a few occasions. Much like how you felt the need to address me, I guess.
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2018, 07:39:49 pm »
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
I'm not the only one who's entirely fed up with the obsessive behaviour. From your response I gather you haven't been privy to what came before, but it hasn't been pretty and only got exponentially worse when left unchecked. Even a teen in heat can show restraint. The only thing that seems to make any difference is consistently calling it out, which I will do until my keyboard is pried from my senile hands. Now, let's get back to Fran's predicament.

Yea OK he has a bit of a problem but you seem to be a bit trigger happy here and now half the thread did become about you obsession about his obsession. If you think there is a problem then please report it.

Are we all happy and calmed down now?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2018, 09:59:19 pm »
It's good to remind ourselves that people simply wondered what all that space is required for, as it's a lot of space for a one woman band. That's a fair question.

I have 88sqm spread over two offices, plus a 44sqm storage bunker. Fran is looking for 185sqm.
I have one full time employee but he only takes up one small desk, so let's say it's just me.
We are basically in the same business with similar requirements in terms of space for filming, R&D, stock, assembly, packing and shipping, works in progress, and storage of gear and other stuff.
I have 7 work benches in my lab and its STILL not enough space.
I can totally understand why Fran would be looking for 185sqm.
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2018, 11:12:48 pm »
a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up, and so you can do things like have a few empty rack mounts in your lab so you can wheel a rack mount over to a bench, configure it up with a bunch of test equipment that might not even have inputs on the front (i am looking at you microwave amplifiers or high power supplies or other specific things) and comfortably work there or possibly leave it running over a long period of time.

People expect you to 'build stonehenge' for some reason. You can have a rotary table but as soon as you have some hook up wires in the front and you need to adjust something in the back, your in trouble and risk kinking the cables with the equipment its self and you can stress the connectors. If its heavy and sinks into a ESD mat then you need to play build the ancient monuments.

I have had to egyptian walk behind crap to do hook ups before, because someones area was housed in a catacomb. Not fun.


« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 11:21:00 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2018, 11:37:05 pm »
Not good:

I recon we could crowd source finding a new place for her if she lets us know the budget and requirements.
If there's anyone in the electronics world who deserves that kind of help, it's Fran. Historical preservation is not financially productive, yet IMHO extremely important.

If just a quarter of her 80K subscribers pitched in 25 bucks each, that'd cover moving and construction costs as well as make a massive down payment to buy a building. Renting just isn't viable in the volatile, skyrocketing real estate market of any halfway-desirable US city.


PITA and part of living in the Tenanted world. I have had it happen to me commercially at the end of lease. I was offered a new lease with a 50% hike or else. I suggested impolitely I would be taking the or else option and they could place their bluestone building somewhere appropriate  >:D

No need for outrage or response or campaigns just a sad/annoying event in the quirky, offbeat and slightly kooky (good thing) that is Franlabs  :-+
This sort of thing has been happening a lot in Seattle, older buildings being demolished and replaced with high rise buildings full of luxury condos or apartments. I can't even explain how thankful I am that I bought a house back when I did because there's no way I could afford to live around here anymore if I hadn't. Screw renting, I don't ever want to be paying someone elses mortgage again.
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
This is what angers me about rental agreements in USA: they are barely worth the paper they're printed on, as far as tenant security goes.

<rant>One of the things I (as an American) appreciate about Switzerland is that tenants are very sensibly protected. (In the US, where tenants are protected, it's often poorly implemented, leading to abuse at the expense of landlords.) Like, if you have a lease, and the building is sold… well, tough luck, new owner, you must adhere to the lease, and you can't just kick someone out with a month's notice. That's the thing that I really hate about US leases: you can end it on far too short notice. Here in CH, it's 3 months notice and not before the lease ends. (If a tenant wants to break the lease, they must also give 3 months notice, or find nominate a suitable replacement tenant. This seems like a very equitable system to me.) And you also can't just raise rent arbitrarily — you can raise it to cover costs and then some, just not open-ended. (I moved into my current apartment right as this neighborhood had begun to gentrify, so I essentially locked in a rent quite a bit below market rate these days. And since inflation here is essentially zero, there have been no cost increases to justify a higher rent.)

I realize that USA has designed its real estate system and laws around homeownership, not rental. But given how real estate prices have skyrocketed, and real wages have remained flat, this just isn't a sustainable model. We can do better.</rant>
 

Offline station240

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2018, 11:56:02 pm »
Also lets not forget, the stuff Dave sells comes pre-assembled and pre-packaged.
Were the EEVBlog lab being use to assemble PCBs, cases, package equipment etc, it would need a lot more space too.
 
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Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2018, 12:18:47 am »
I know of many other female tech TV show hosts that I didn't mention because they seem to have been doing just fine. Just mentioning that previously, when a woman in tech asks for help, it's not long before a lot of guys jump in offering to help her.
Don't play innocent, you're not fooling anyone. You take every opportunity to talk about the women you obsess over, which are generally opportunities you inappropriately invent yourself. Find help and work your problem out.
At the moment you seem to be the one obsessing about it.

Even if NiHaoMike is paying a bit of attention to young nubile women that's quite normal in a lad of his age. It's only when old perves like you start obsessively dragging the subject up that we might use the word "problem", possibly followed by the words "blood pressure", "shortness of breath" and "ambulance". Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!
None of the above presents a particularly welcoming environment for fellow EE/tech nerds who happen to genetically differ from the dominant profile in only one of 46 chromosomes... To me, it doesn't have a place here, regardless of how normal and species-survival-critical a behavior might be in the wild, if it doesn't affect what happens in the engineering, I think it's best left aside.
 

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2018, 12:27:15 am »
If she really is the last one in the building maybe they will offer her a generous settlement to walk away early. That should at least should pay for the relocation etc.
This is what angers me about rental agreements in USA: they are barely worth the paper they're printed on, as far as tenant security goes.

<rant>One of the things I (as an American) appreciate about Switzerland is that tenants are very sensibly protected. (In the US, where tenants are protected, it's often poorly implemented, leading to abuse at the expense of landlords.) Like, if you have a lease, and the building is sold… well, tough luck, new owner, you must adhere to the lease, and you can't just kick someone out with a month's notice. That's the thing that I really hate about US leases: you can end it on far too short notice.
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy. Around here (MA and NH), a new building owner absolutely does inherit the leases of existing tenants and there are very few cases where commercial tenants can be forced out against their will. (Negotiated settlements and non-renewals do happen all the time, of course.) I'm looking at some commercial property in NH and the very first thing we reviewed with the current owner is the status of the existing leases and renewal options. (In my case, I'm interested in keeping the tenants, but either way, I want to know what I'm buying into.)

Assuming she's not going to be kicked out against her will prior to July '19, she might be able to reach a cash settlement to leave earlier (if that's acceptable/preferable to her) or can stay until then.

If the facts are as above, I don't see this as a particular failure of the US real estate system and norms, but simply a natural conclusion of "you have more control over your real estate if you own it than if you don't".
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2018, 01:01:07 am »
a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up

I need a bench like that for the lab. The mailbag bench doesn't cut it as I have to keep it at least reasonably clear.
I'd have 3-4 such benches if I had a big open lab, so you can have a few projects ongoing at once and you can leave then so they don't get disturbed.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2018, 01:13:55 am »
Also lets not forget, the stuff Dave sells comes pre-assembled and pre-packaged.
Were the EEVBlog lab being use to assemble PCBs, cases, package equipment etc, it would need a lot more space too.

Indeed.
I have done some small scale assembly, and have tested thousands of boards in my 50sqm lab. Packaging and shipping was on the floor in a few sqm available:


The current 88sqm is too small, 120sqm would be more what I really need to not be cramped. Include my storage bunker and that's close to Fran.
Fran does more stuff than me, so 185sqm is definitely not too big. And Fran said it's the size she's always found she needed for 20 years or whatever, and I can certainly believe it.

I should consolidate my lab and office into one bigger space, but it's about $50k in rent.
Trio Test moved out their office in the same business park which was about 130sqm and it was very nice, but again, about $50k in rent.
Also, setting up a lab with all the required lighting and benches and a zillion parts doesn't make for a clean space when they come around to inspect.
Not to mention the hassle of moving, but it would at least force me to clean up   ;D
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2018, 01:17:49 am »
She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.

That's what just happened to my office space, I'm now on month to month, so they could boot me out any time now.
There was no financial benefit to signing another multi-year lease so I didn't bother.
Getting booted out of the office space wouldn't be much of a hassle, it's just desks and boxes.
 

Offline Messtechniker

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2018, 01:48:16 am »
Guys and gals,
stop wasting your time with this useles discussion.

If I were anywhere close, I would offer some assistance in moving all that gear.

Looking at the videos, moving such a lab will involve quite some man and lady power. I'd expect some 80 to 100 man hours (10 volunteers each working 8 to 10 hours or so) to get it all out and roughly back in at the new place, depending on distance of course.




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Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2018, 01:53:22 am »
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
I agree. Just look at what Rxpilot is doing with only a 400 square feet garage. More space costs more money.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2018, 04:13:37 am »
i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.

temporary folding table. no.

work bench access being blocked by cabinet.

crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.

I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available.  I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.

Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?





that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 04:21:32 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2018, 04:35:44 am »
a good space will have some benches not up against the wall too that you can walk around in all sides for assembly or hook up

I need a bench like that for the lab. The mailbag bench doesn't cut it as I have to keep it at least reasonably clear.
I'd have 3-4 such benches if I had a big open lab, so you can have a few projects ongoing at once and you can leave then so they don't get disturbed.

The number of benches you need will probably turn out to be something like n + 3, where n is however many you currently have or have space for.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2018, 04:38:29 am »
i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.

temporary folding table. no.

work bench access being blocked by cabinet.

crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.

I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available.  I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.

Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?





that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.

Sometimes you need to compromise between what you need, and what you can afford. If fran can't afford something, then she needs to figure something else out.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2018, 04:51:48 am »
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2018, 05:08:10 am »
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.


In most of the cases I see, the new owner is going to demolish the building and replace it with a tower having trendy high end retail in the ground floor and expensive luxury condos above. What the new owner gains is a tremendous amount of profit.
 

Offline apis

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2018, 05:11:22 am »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2018, 10:24:25 am »
challenge accepted

but really, once you work at anything other then low frequencies and low powers thats bull shit, and even then, you can start using space quick once you start making custom test fixtures, amplifiers, sensor interfaces, etc

Maybe its not at that level yet but you can always do more with space.

also most people say that a healthy business is looking to grow/expand capabilities to become the go to. If you don't have some kind of R&D its easy to get eaten or become marginalized.
I appreciate the pitch, but you're not making the sale. We could go back and forth with all kinds imaginary requirements, but we both know that little of what you mention realistically applies. We could dream up equipment to fill a building the size of a Ford plant all day.

Until we have a list of things Fran is absolutely going to require, 2000 square feet is a huge space to fill.
I agree. Just look at what Rxpilot is doing with only a 400 square feet garage. More space costs more money.

Are any of you even remotely qualified to evaluate such needs?

Do you make engineering videos and have a business manufacturing products?

I'm probably as close as it gets to doing the same stuff as Fran and I have 127sqm total vs Fran's 180sqm, and I can assure you that I could really do with some more space.
If someone has spent decades being productive in 2000sqft then who's to say they don't need all that space again?

Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?

« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 10:30:51 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Yet another FranLab crisis
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2018, 10:27:08 am »
I don't read or hear anything to suggest that Fran is being forced out prior to her lease term ending in July 2019. She seems to be taking sensible precautions and planning ahead, but she specifically says in the video that she re-upped her lease right before the building was sold. My read on that, knowing a bit about general real estate practices is that she's probably OK until then, and the other tenants that she sees being "forced out" with 30 days' notice are being forced out by simple non-renewal of their lease which may have transitioned over to month-to-month at the end of a defined tenancy.
I'd be less optimistic. A new building owner is not going to evict paying customers unless there is something to gain from that. If I where Fran I'd ask what their plans are (new tennants?). If not then she could make clear that she is willing to move soon if they help her a bit.

It's clear they want the building for their own use. Happens all the time when someone buys a commercial space.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2018, 10:31:32 am »
Now leave the poor lad alone and both of you get off my lawn!

 :-DD

Comment of the week.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2018, 11:39:25 am »
i looked and I saw a inspection microscope on a toolbox. no.

temporary folding table. no.

work bench access being blocked by cabinet.

crap on the floor? how you gonna clean. you never wanna use floor for storage space.

I am gonna wait for him to clean up before i make further comments but that is NOT a good work space. I wish he had more space available.  I think that work space could trigger clausterphobia. You want at least 4 feet clearance between the PNP machine and the walls. Preferably 6.

Monitors on speakers. Why is there an arbor press in the electronics area?





that is a cramped storage closet. I would not be happy with that setup.

Sometimes you need to compromise between what you need, and what you can afford. If fran can't afford something, then she needs to figure something else out.

i never said you can't make money or work in that space but I am just saying its not a good work environment. He made a compromise between work space and quality of equipment being used. The quality of equipment that he has is decent but none the less the space is over packed 3-4 times and the storage methods, furniture, work ability, etc is low quality. Most people would be very frustrated to work there.

The human interface design of that room is poor due to the decisions he made, but it seems that for him the juice is worth the squeeze.

The eevblog laboratory is also cramped and has loads of inconveniences like the use of tupperware plastic containers to house equipment, open shelves, tons of stuff on the floor.

In my opinion a good laboratory will have a austere feel to it. Frantone clearly has the same feelings as I do.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 11:48:43 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2018, 03:04:33 pm »
One idea, Detroit. Lots of people in similar situations have ended up in Detroit where large spaces are available for a pittance because of the situation there. Also, other parts of PA. Pittsburgh area for example. Or Cleveland, might have warehouse space to spare.

However, that may be cut off in the future by the price of heating. If the price of natural gas goes up a lot like they say it will, due to exports, its going to be insanely expensive heating a large place, nomatter where it is in the US. Like it is in Europe.

These kinds of situations put people under a kind of stress that even just by itself is neurotoxic. I can't overemphasize the importance of this. A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.

If I were her I would try to pare down the bulk of my stuff. If she does that in a well thought out methodical way she'll be able to keep the things that matter to her but she cant be wasting any time hoping its going to change, if a miracle occurs, great but she cant count on that. This huge shift is happening everywhere. It happened to me. I had to give away 3/4 of what I owned. Its impossible to sell things on short notice.

It will not be easy finding another place to live, let alone a 'lab' in an urban area, without a very well paying job and perfect credit. And often they want a little under the table too. Thats what she should focus on. Living space.  Its very very hard to find a live work space. The future is people living in dorm like shared spaces. Basically living like college students again. (Blessedly now, they might be able to find a unit with its own bathroom! That would be almost as good as a small apartment in a city where there are often good, cheap ways to eat out)
It can get really desperate. When I lived in SF several times I had to extricate people from spaces in my building they werent supposed to live in (under the front stairs, where we kept the garbage cans, and old abandoned storage rooms in the damp dark basement. Whos to say if we wont end up in rabbit hutch like "cage homes" like the poor in Hong Kong do.

When people are trying to drive you out, what can I say. Its not a safe situation to be in.

She could end up in a really bad situation.

Wealthy people don't understand the rest of the human race's values when they have dollar signs in their eyes. They see buying properties, tarting them up and reselling them to make a quick profit as their entitlement. Really. "Everybody else is getting rich", they say, doing this, why not them too? Its like a game for them.

If poor people try to hang on to spaces they have professionals who they hire to come in and drive them out. Professional building clearers. They can make it impossible for anybody who has to keep a job or who needs to sleep, breathe, etc. to live in a building. The stories I could tell people would just blow your minds. I've been through this.

She really doesn't want to become a speed bump on their highway to riches. If she cannot afford an attorney to fight it out (and it looks like that would be really hard to find, as they are super expensive.) she should just be happy she has some time because of her lease, and move. Try to find another place to live first. Thats the #1 priority. She needs to get on top of it because other things are likely coming that will displace lots of others so soon she will be competing with them. And many of them will likely be better off financially. Still working and needing to stay near jobs, nearing retirements, etc. Thanks to our President, the REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER.

Older people like Fran and myself are still living in another, gentler era. We're not really so realistic. For better or for worse, thats just the way we are.

Fran if you read this, your health is the thing you need to think about, the sooner you decide to deal with this and start finding good places for your stuff and self, the better off you'll be in terms of your chances of finding a new lab too. Don't become a paralyzed 'deer in the headlights', if you do you will sink into despair and not be able to find a new place. Paradoxically, like employment, the more you 'need' something like that the harder it is to find it. All that old equipment may be interesting for historical reasons but its big and bulky and not as useful as newer equipment in a pragmatic electronics sense. You have to move on. Thats how to improve your chances of finding another challenge and maybe you will luck out. Its more likely than not if you rise to the challenge, but if you dont its going to be very hard.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 04:01:34 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2018, 03:48:11 pm »
Detroit is an area that could really use a little gentrification. The problem is that once the ball starts rolling, it's really hard to stop.
 

Online Bud

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2018, 04:55:56 pm »
Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?



Are you sure you measured the sq ft properly? My space is 270 sq ft and yours does not look 4 times bigger.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2018, 10:12:23 pm »
She speaks of being able to safely walk to the supermarket and restaurants where she lives now and of not really needing an automobile. So the need is not just for a new workspace but a new neighborhood.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2018, 10:43:50 pm »
Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?



Are you sure you measured the sq ft properly? My space is 270 sq ft and yours does not look 4 times bigger.

My lab is 50sqm
I have two separate spaces in two different buildings. Three if you count my storage bunker.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2018, 10:46:39 pm »
The eevblog laboratory is also cramped and has loads of inconveniences like the use of tupperware plastic containers to house equipment, open shelves, tons of stuff on the floor.
In my opinion a good laboratory will have a austere feel to it. Frantone clearly has the same feelings as I do.

Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2018, 12:27:00 am »
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2018, 01:12:30 am »
Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
I've always wondered about why you've chosen to rent multiple spaces rather than consolidating, though I understand you might not want to share anything and everything.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 01:16:26 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2018, 01:13:51 am »
One idea, Detroit. Lots of people in similar situations have ended up in Detroit where large spaces are available for a pittance because of the situation there. Also, other parts of PA. Pittsburgh area for example. Or Cleveland, might have warehouse space to spare.
I thought about the same exact thing. However, since she mentioned on the video she is concerned about the neighbourhood safety, I can't help but think what copper thieves would do with a treasure trove of "metals for scrapping" at her lab in the middle of an abandoned area of Detroit (IIRC, certain areas are not even policed anymore due to lack of residents/funds, but I am not sure if this was FUD I read somewhere).
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Offline Jr460

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2018, 01:14:45 am »
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

I knew someone that had a small retail store in a mall.  It was a good location and was doing OK.  Then the large main anchor store moved out.   That killed a lot of his walk ins, the "oh while we are here let's take a look traffic".   On top of that his share for the HVAC and maint of the common space when up.   The store that moved, because they rented the largest space, paid a large share of those costs.   The cost got re-calculated and all the smaller shop renters had to make up the difference.   As more stores moved out, the costs to the others skyrocketed.

It is not all about location.

A small 5-6 unit strip mall.  One unit was a salon that was run by the landlord and couldn't make a go of it.   It sat empty for some time until two people I know leased it.  Since it was already setup as a salon, it didn't take much for it to get up and going.  They did great, mainly because their long term customers stayed with them, and they did really good work at a good price.   When the lease came up for a second renewal, the landlord seeing how much business they had just about doubled the rent, pushing them out.  The landlord thought that now it has a lot of traffic, She could take it back over, just a change of owners and staff and name, the same people will keep coming to the salon.   

Of course the plan didn't work for the landlord, and on top of that traffic to whole strip mall crashed and the pub next door with very good food closed up. 

Greed.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2018, 01:17:28 am »
Yes, and I'm seriously considering renting a new consolidated bigger space.
I've always wondered about why you've chosen to rent multiple spaces, though I understand you might not want to share anything and everything.

It's a bit complicated financially, logistically, and plus market availability wise.
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2018, 02:23:21 am »
The problem is, thats what everybody wants.

Ironically, its the people who really need walkability who are suffering the most by the shifts. (maybe they don't own a car or even drive, but still need to get to work.)

People who were born in and grew up in city neighborhoods but whose incomes have not kept up are the ones who are getting forced out in large numbers now. And there really is no place for most of them to go thats likely to work out well. Its going to get much worse before it gets better (if it ever does)

She speaks of being able to safely walk to the supermarket and restaurants where she lives now and of not really needing an automobile. So the need is not just for a new workspace but a new neighborhood.

There are a lot of people in this situation and they should join up and set up organizations to buy properties in areas unlikely to gentrify soon. Outside of towns so unlikely to be added to redevelopment projects.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2018, 03:46:56 am »
lol detroit walkability, more like driving around in dead reckoning
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2018, 04:20:37 am »
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.

Out of curiosity, in what way? Bear in mind that most of us non-antipodeans have no clue what's happening in your local economy.
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Offline jmelson

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2018, 07:18:14 am »
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.
Well, there are incubators and makerspaces, which can be very helpful to our types of people.  One incredible one is Tx/Rx labs in Houston.  I visited there once for a conference, and it was amazing.  They also had the best electronics facilities I've ever seen in a makerspace.  But, there are a bunch of others that are also pretty good.

At least some parts of Detroit may be too far gone to be a viable location right now, but there are plenty of other cities where crime is tolerable and property values are not crazy.  I don't know if Fran really WANTS to stay in New York, but there are a lot of other places that could be a lot more affordable.  I'm in a suburb of St. Louis, MO, and have my lab/production facility in the basement of my house.  I have a Bridgeport mill converted to CNC, a 3500-Lb lathe, a sheet metal shear and finger brake, pick and place machine, and electronics lab down there.  At least, in the past, I made great use of the home office deduction, too, although the tax laws have been changed, so they may not do as much in the coming years.

Jon
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2018, 07:57:30 am »
My two year lease is now up on the office, and the market has changed a lot since two years ago.
Out of curiosity, in what way? Bear in mind that most of us non-antipodeans have no clue what's happening in your local economy.

Two years ago there was a massive shortage of stock in my business park for rent or for sale.
I would prefer to buy a bigger place, but there simply wasn't anything for sale at the time and I needed the extra space.
Not to mention that prices have more than doubled in my business park for commercial realeststate, something that was almost unprecendented before (commercial realeststate never goes up like residential)
So if I wanted to buy, I needed to do that about 3 years ago, I missed that boat.
Now there is a lot more stock available for rent, so there is more choice to find something suitable.
And rents haven't gone up so now renting one big space makes sense where it didn't before, it made more sense to buy instead of rent 3 years ago.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 08:00:15 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline a59d1

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2018, 08:10:53 am »
A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.

No sources cited.
 

Offline a59d1

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2018, 08:13:12 am »
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(

If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2018, 10:52:42 am »
Look at the emerging science of psychoneuroimmunology - and especially allostasis and allostatic load.

These insults are cumulative. Racism is the most studied but other forms of similar discrimination are identical physiologically. So are certain other kinds of visceral pain, say the realization that one has been cheated out of something important, by some trick, the sickness or death of a close family member, or even a messy divorce. Health care costs, paradoxically, increase health care costs.

Fear of loss of housing is also a severe shock that figures high up in Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

The things that are then measurable are things like "all source mortality"(death) (and/or "morbidity"(disease))  They can use other statistical techniques.. comparing deaths in one cohort to another, say between countries with otherwise similar sets of conditions and development. Another useful search term is "excess deaths"

Usually used in a context like "excess deaths amenable to improved health care" and or "excess deaths amenable to improved access to health care".

But the new development is our understanding of where the allostatic load fits in and why these problems occur. Stress hormones - glucocorticoids (steroids) are powerful stimulants of the immune response made by the body to keep us alive when we are facing a direct threat to our survival. But they also are neurotoxins. This is why people just fall apart when subjected to continuous stress. Cortisol will dysregulate the HPA and destroy large amounts of grey matter in the brain over time. (The brain actually shrinks, causing the sunken eyes effect.) They also impact the delicate structures connecting the two sides of the brain. This is why people who have been under a lot of stress for a long time (more than a few weeks) often develop incurable brain damage ("PTSD") It was first observed in World War I in soldiers in the trenches of warfare.

Some substances, curcumin is one, may be neuroprotective but come at a cost in terms of loss of the (necessary for survival) fear response.

This science is still in its infancy.

You can find out much more on PubMed.

A few months of it will statistically double one's chances of serious illness or death for years. Thats the emerging science. Best to cut your losses and move. They won.

No sources cited.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 01:14:49 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2018, 11:29:53 am »
At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(

If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?

Getting richer flipping property is relatively easy, getting rich, not so much. You really need to have a substantial amount of cash on hand to buy up a lot of those properties, can't just go take out a bank loan and if you do, the interest will eat up much of the profit. Once one has a certain amount of wealth it gets progressively easier to acquire more wealth.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2018, 11:34:19 am »
you also want to be willing to deal with massive amounts of utter bullshit.

there is the hidden cost of going to visit those properties and having to maintain some kind of vision. Then renting and being a land lord to some degree or hiring people that don't suck. It;s a headache. You could try to get by with heavy handed lease agreements and stuff but that limits client base.

Then you have all sorts of bullshit relating to industry in the area, zoning, chemicals storage for business use. And you can easily get involved in litigation.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 11:38:50 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2018, 11:37:19 am »
Ah, OK, so it's not such a free and easy path to riches then which I think was a59d1's point...
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2018, 11:41:09 am »
Ah, OK, so it's not such a free and easy path to riches then which I think was a59d1's point...

If you hire professionals to do everything for you, you can get by just being an ideas man but the margins become slimmer and slimmer.

Even for a simple rental something like a shady HVAC repair man or plumber can fuck you in the ass hard.. you need to patrol that shit or just be willing to have alot of exposure. If you have alot you might need to hire managers, which you then need to super vise. It's basically similar to running a business. If you know how to do all that stuff to some degree to where systems remain maintained and functional you can save a pretty sum of money.. but then you need to be on call basically. Otherwise you just need to trust that a repair is good.. or you might end up fighting with contractors.

It can be the stupidest shit, like say you have an out door HVAC unit and you hire a lawn care guy. Tennant does not give a shit, but wants the AC back on as per the lease. Then you need to either shell out hard for a repair.. or if you wanna save money you can investigate the manner yourself to see if maybe the lawn care guy broke it, or if you can prove he broke it. Easy 2000$ loss right there. Typically if you own the property your pretty careful to at lease observe, determine if damage occurred after services, work being done, etc but you can't really 'demand' the tenant do that.

It still either comes down to having a good relationship with the tenant to have him do some leg work (inspection, pictures, talking to the repair people), or for you to work as a remote facilities manager, or just write some insane lease that says you don't give a fuck if something breaks (which people don't wanna go for unless its really cheap). The financially reasonable/easy way is to get property where you are and organize your life so you have time to deal with those issues. If you are working a 40 hour a week job and the property is 3 hours drive, you can go mad if you had to work late then you need to deal with some broke crap in another city. Home owner might know how to use a snake to unclog a toilet. Tenant will likely ask for a plumber. Thats 200$ for a clogged john. God forbid the heating goes out in the winter.

I don't know how it scales financially when you own alot of properties though.

Also keep in mind when your own property breaks, you usually know the town/city and have contacts, so you know whats reasonable, and you might call a few services to shop around.. and over time you get to know the best services etc so you can save money. If you need to do that for 10 houses in 10 different locations imagine how much home work you have. It's not like you have good neighbors you can ask.. your just some land lord.

You can also get blood pressure raising stuff like someone demanding a carpenter to come in to tighten a screw on a cabinet door (for real). Electrical inspection because someone 'smelled something'.

Someone in my family was a super.. and believe me it can be super frustrating. Going to your property and you see the place is a pig sty.

You kinda need to treat it like a investment I think, set rules for yourself and follow them (i.e. make a plan to actually be professional and call a plumber or tech immediately, rather then trying save a few bucks by begging tenants to do things, or be tempted to decide to 'drive around doing over time' to save a few bucks... ) then you can focus on buying more property.. but its hard to accept stupid ass cash hemorrhaging that can theoretically be prevented. When your big its probobly easier, but then you can end up getting a bad reputation because you don't do your homework with correct service choice (if you end up having a brand name etc).. people get pissed if they talk to someone in the area and they find out your hiring the biggest slack asses. 

There is a old funny cartoon about this, called the PJ's.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 12:06:59 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #79 on: October 09, 2018, 12:08:00 pm »


then there is also that movie with Joe Pesci 'the super'. I probably like this movie more then most since I grew up with someone in my family being a super in a rather bad building with super greedy owners.

As for flipping, thats everyones plan... homes can take a while to sell but rent quick.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 12:31:51 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #80 on: October 09, 2018, 01:28:19 pm »
I keep hearing that everything connected to the US and investment is being puffed up tremendously by large investment from Asia in particular. There is a perception that the US (and Australia) are two of the safest places to invest - while many other countries are - at least their inhabitants believe, so extremely corrupt, so corrupt they are on the verge of revolutions.

Also there is the huge demographic hump of older people, coming as it is just as technology is eliminating (soon) billions of jobs. Plus we have trade obligations where other countries claim we owe them access to the shrinking pools of jobs we have, in perpetuity! After all, they are cheaper.

This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets.  Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.

At the same time, in many parts of the US, there are these huge abandoned malls. Seems like it would make sense to turn at least some of them into live work spaces for small businesses, sort of as incubators.

Unfortunately, we never do things that make that much sense here any more.

:(

If repurposing old malls is such a genius idea, why don't you do it? Who's stopping you? If getting rich through property flipping is so easy, why haven't you done it? Debt is cheap in America, and any old moron can get a loan for a couple million with a tiny amount of collateral. What are you waiting for?

Getting richer flipping property is relatively easy, getting rich, not so much. You really need to have a substantial amount of cash on hand to buy up a lot of those properties, can't just go take out a bank loan and if you do, the interest will eat up much of the profit. Once one has a certain amount of wealth it gets progressively easier to acquire more wealth.

Yes, exactly. Just ask our President, the "self made billionaire". (cough)
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2018, 09:02:14 pm »
LMAO no. The US is not special in this.

Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).


This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets.  Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
:-DD

Riiight.

The UK is dumping its social safety nets because the tories are just as heartless, deluded, and evil as the GOP.

Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:05:15 pm by tooki »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2018, 03:19:35 am »
LMAO no. The US is not special in this.

Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).


I'm a little surprised they don't have serious problems with squatting if that many are uninhabited. I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors. I certainly wish they'd do that down in my area. Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2018, 03:44:15 am »
I'm a little surprised they don't have serious problems with squatting if that many are uninhabited. I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors.
They’re generally high-end urban properties, many are apartments, many are row houses, some are standalone buildings. In any case, as investment properties that they use instead of hotels when in town, they will have caretakers. I’ve heard of roads in London where the only actual residents are the handful of live-in caretakers hired to keep the houses safe and clean, and to manage the gardeners, etc.  :(

From an economics standpoint, a problem is that they’re only used a short time out of the year, if at all, or even if there’s a live-in caretaker, it might be one person in a house that should live 8...

I googled a bit and it also seems that a ton of the foreign-owned buildings are rental properties. So off the market for local buyers, but not unoccupied at least.


I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors. I certainly wish they'd do that down in my area.
Indeed!!! I’m not entirely sure what the motivation is for places like London and New York to not restrict foreign buyers, given the acute affordable housing shortages in both. Is it just property tax greed?


Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2018, 03:47:42 am »
The Internet (in its capacity as a surveillance wet dream come true) is replacing the safety nets.

I venture to say we will not see many more revolutions (than we did in the past).

 Nor, I suspect are we likely to see true democracy, (meaning the kind that can actually fix things) unless a great many things change. FTAs that limit the policy space for things of economic relevance, in the interest of certainty for MNCs, (with a sop thrown in to pay lip service to economic integration) are incompatible with democracy. Because people would vote to fix problems, and they would never vote to do things that maximized the income stream for investors, as policy is forced into now.

For democracy to work, people need to have a 'commons' where everything can be discussed - even policy not desired by the MNCs.

With the number of working people likely to decline greatly, society has to figure out what to do about the people who suddenly find themselves and the skills they worked for so long to gain, unable to earn income. In the environment we are entering carving anything in stone is a mistake, but that is exactly what is being done, in a panic reaction. very bad decisions are being made in a rush to "future proof" the future.

Right now, most of us, are very lacking in understanding of the implications of, for example, machine learning. Why? Part of it is intentional, people who think the current state of everything will continue as it is are much easier to manipulate. Also, people who think a current state of employment is about to end have statistically been shown to be far more likely to commit frauds.

Although some want to give up on educating people (whats the point, they say, "if few will be good enough to ever get jobs", why give people unrealistic expectations") thats very stupid because what is likely to happen when people are freed of work is ironically, an explosion of hugely creative activities that ironically are likely to create lots of new wealth.

But only if people have health, and a good quality of life and friends to share it with, what you were saying, tooki.

What a shame that they have made expanding safety nets a "taking" that must be compensated to corporations, isnt it?  The kinds of "public good" that we all can see would be a plus in communities, is forbidden because its encouraged by a government entity, who are supposed to never hurt businesses investments.

So no more non-market anything, unless it already existed 20 years ago and isnt changed. It can only be privatized, never re-nationalized, thats the ideology. A one way ratchet exists. (Shhh!)

This is what I mean about people being ignorant.

People also really need to understand computer science better, thats for sure.

And its implications for 'civil society' in all sorts of ways. Especially employment.


LMAO no. The US is not special in this.

Asian, Russian, and Arab investment is a huge problem in any halfway desirable real estate market in any halfway stable country anywhere in the world. It’s why New York and London are getting so insanely expensive (London has neighborhoods that are now 75%+ uninhabited foreign investment properties, with buyers willing to pay anything, but not living there, thus causing local business to collapse).


This is why there is pressure all around- for example, the EU, UK, US all are dumping their social safety nets.  Otherwise they would have to raise taxes and then the investments would stop pouring in.
:-DD

Riiight.

The UK is dumping its social safety nets because the tories are just as heartless, deluded, and evil as the GOP.

Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically.

Quote
Tooki: "Good social safety nets have a net positive effect on economies (it stabilizes), so it’s ideologically driven, lot logically."

Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.

Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.

The democracy we can't be allowed to have, now, as some see it. Precisely because we need it so badly.

Imagine you are on top of the world now.


To you, every change is a threat, because you're on top NOW.

By on top I don't mean any specific country, I mean the people who are on top in all countries, and nobody else.

As far as the rest of us, everywhere, we're representative of the so called "mob's" thinking (yes, some people actually do use that term)

So, divide and conquer.

Therefore the stuff we're getting from the media is lacking any coverage at all on most of the most important issues and dominated by issues that are designed to divide and conquer us when in fact we would all agree on the important stuff we're not told about.

We're being manipulated VERY skillfully to create a 'record' for the future of fake consent to things we've never (and will never be) told about.

Look up 'shock therapy' in the context of what we've done to other countries. (Most Americans don't know anything about this.) But now they are getting ready to do the same things to us.  Thats why there is all the commotion.

Both 'parties' in the US are playing a 'good cop bad cop' routine.

And the political candidates in many cases limit themselves to these wedge issues.

To cover up never getting anything fixed for as long as possible why they try to nail future policy down via backroom FTAs. (which do an end run around democracy)

The very few (you could count them on your fingers) candidates who discuss the real issues are either ostracized by all the rest, and everything they say is spun in a way as to shred any sense it makes, by the media, or fake and very skilled at deception, and likely plan to never win. By this the will of the people is frustrated.

This pattern is likely being replicated all around the world.

Here its easy to prove by how they structure it. But people are so heavily misled they wouldn't recognize it when they saw it. They often think the bits of real news are "fake news"!

I would be willing to bet the exact same thing is going on now in the UK. And MANY other countries.

Just wait and see, They are 20-30 years ahead of us on this. Thats why they are rich and we're not.

They see themselves as the true owners of everything. Its kind of like the enclosures of the past, what they are doing. Shifting the beneficial ownership of the planet's resources and policy totally to themselves.

I can't go any deeper into this because I'd get tossed off this blog. Do some research in the academic literature on trade and you'll see the disconnect.

Some day this will all be uncovered and people are going to be disgusted by how sordid it is.

It will make all these other issues seem insignificant. They all really must be having a good laugh at all of our expense over drinks at the end of the day.

I could be wrong I suppose, and I am sure I am on some of the minor points Ive made. My mental model is just a hypothesis. But, the anomalies that I see are so damning that its 100% clear to me that the model most of us think is true, isn't.

If it was we would have fixed a lot of our problems long ago. We're very much victims of abuse who fail to realize how brutal it was until after its over because we've not ever had a state of non-abuse to compare it to. 

Hint, things would work for people. Most people would have happy lives.

Diversity of opinions and backgrounds would be celebrated - not just tolerated, or even worse, attacked.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 04:42:19 am by cdev »
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2018, 04:32:02 am »
Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2018, 04:47:01 am »
Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
Yeah, I think a lot of Americans (at least) really overextended themselves when buying, and bought properties they could afford the mortgage on, but not the maintenance. :/
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2018, 04:56:31 am »
Two words, eminent domain.

If you live in the US, everything changed in 2005-2006. Now its perfectly legal for some real estate developer to displace you because they have some money making proposal which your local government sees as awarding benefit, to them.

Why let you capture the increase in value when your track record of moneymaking is generic, while that of Mr. Developer is good.

As real economic activity declines, churning increases exponentially.

Nobody makes any money by people just staying where they are and living nice lives. Thats their attitude. In some areas there is precious little other economic activity (other than churning) and its going to get far worse as more and more things are automated and tax receipts fall.

Few communities, even the ones you think would or should, take the long views that need to be taken. When they try to, they eventually find that FTAs stand in the way.   This is, and will become more and more difficult to change because its an international game where everything is now 'tradable'. Including jobs.

Because there are far too few one eyed, let alone sighted men and women in the kingdom of the blind.

...

Odd as it may sound, I'd love to drive down the value of my property to maybe 50% of what it's currently worth. It's wealth only on paper and the higher the property value, the more I pay in property taxes for no benefit to me unless I sell it, and that doesn't help me because I need to live somewhere.
Doesn’t sound odd at all, it makes perfect sense.
I say the same thing: people put so much worth on the value of the house they forget about the cost of living itself. I guess this happens because nobody plans to live in the same place for a long time (and that's why IME houses are usually poorly maintained where I live)
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2018, 04:59:23 am »
Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.

Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.
I doubt that the rate of knowledge increase is exponential. I can't see any mechanism that would be substantially higher than quadratic with time. (The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.)
 

Offline apis

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2018, 05:39:46 am »
The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.
World population isn't really growing anymore, or rather, the birthrate is more or less constant now. The population is still growing for a little while longer because there are still fewer people in the oldest generations that are dying than the youngest generations having babies, but that will change and stabilise pretty soon.
 

Offline technix

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #90 on: October 10, 2018, 05:55:48 am »
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.
World population isn't really growing anymore, or rather, the birthrate is more or less constant now. The population is still growing for a little while longer because there are still fewer people in the oldest generations that are dying than the youngest generations having babies, but that will change and stabilise pretty soon.
Parts of the world is actually experiencing a population decline. Germany has been on this track for quite a while and has heavily relied on eastern European workforce brought over thanks to EU and Schengen Agreement. Even in China almost all major cities, Peking, Shanghai, Guangzhou and HK are all suffering from an aging population and a decline in local workforce, and having to rely on people from other places to even run the city. The Chinese example is particularly alarming since the customs of family reunion during Chinese New Year means during that time the major cities are almost empty with a lot of semi-essential services shut down. (It is lucky that China has employed AI and automation in those cities, so during that holiday the essential services can be largely left on unmonitored autopilot.)
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #91 on: October 10, 2018, 07:13:59 am »
If she was an owner and was getting pushed out by eminent domain she would be entitled to "fair market value" but studies show that often the former owners got substantially less than fair market value at the time, and right after that it shot up.

As a renter, it depends on if her community has a 'just cause' eviction /condo conversion law.

But they - those kinds of laws, which generally limit rent increases and other changes to an arbitrary figure based on the estimated "consumer price index" - as well as other laws that require some 'below market rate' housing (which is still way too expensive for the people being displaced, who often don't even drive so living in rural areas, will be at best life changing, more likely than not it will be unmanageable.) be built, instead of all multi-million dollar condos) are on shaky legal ground nationally, because of the changes that have been occurring here recently.

(Also, what happens when or if the bubble breaks which you know it must, eventually.)

Miraculously, most people here, for the most part, have been kept completely oblivious to these changes by obviously phony candidates that puff up their confidence by telling them what they think they want to hear, even if it has little if any resemblance to whats really going on.

Generally, even in cities which are alleged to be the most favorable to renters, the owners hold pretty much all of the cards, that is, unless a bigger fish comes along and is able to displace them. Which happens a lot if an area doesn't maintain its spending.

This is why ending so called "net neutrality" is so important to certain people. An incredible amount of data collection is enabled by a total lack of entitlements to privacy.

It will make it possible to make all sorts of decisions, including city planning decisions based on the real data of how much the residents in neighborhoods spend. (and what they spend it on) Also their health status and habit, friends, everything.

Sort of like China's "Social Credit" system if it was strictly based on profit and spending.

The real change has come about because of a new emphasis on profit, and a shift in the body of law (see Ronald Coase's 1960 paper, "The Problem of Social Cost," ) that says that breaking contracts of all kinds at all levels of society is okay if more money is made by breaking them than by keeping them, its 'more efficient'..

"Efficient". Remember that word.

Obviously this shift is music to the ears of the very wealthy, all around the world, after years of being told their behavior was immoral and antisocial, now its not only okay, its desirable for might to make right. That is basically what fascism said, with a modernized spin to it.

Because this obviously would reduce profits for people to know this was happening, the general populace has been kept ignorant of these changes- so people have not reduced spending or started saving every penny, thats more profitable!

In country after country, government is prohibited from doing anything that reduces profits, pretty much now. This includes the profits of foreign investors, or its supposed to. Illustrating how countries no longer matter, class does. The wealthy would rather help out other wealthy people, than help poor people anywhere.

So a justification can be found for basically anything.

The argument against limits on rent increases and arbitrary evictions is a market based one, that laws which limit rent increases for existing tenants prevent the building of lots of new market rate housing which would in theory lower costs for new people moving into a city.

In practice that rarely if ever happens, though.

The other side of the coin is that longterm tenants who have been reliable tenants and have paid the increases without complaint, become less and less desirable to keep compared to new tenants who might may not only the going rate, they also may pay fees, or even bribes which are non-refundable.

Tenants of bad landlords may often find themselves increasingly on the front lines of a war. They cant even offer to pay more money because thats forbidden by the laws. And moving into another apartment in the same city will require much more money plus an annual income customarily two or preferably three times the rent.

Some tenants may be able to pay that but long term tenants rarely are, also they tend to not understand the big picture because its been years since they had to look for a place to live.

Plus the government,federal, state and local governments are not supposed to build any new public housing. As far as replacing existing public housing. That may also be prohibited.

In the near future it likely depends on whether they have carved out that service sector in advance. (The text I got that from was an EU document, the EU claiming it was for 'transparency' published a single, exceedingly vague document which gives an outline of the changes. The US position is likely just as aggressive or more so but its not public. Australia is also involved. )

So what this means is that money is everything.

As within a period of a decade or even less, the 'going rate' likely soars/has soared.

What then happens is some (a minority) of landlords - depending on their intrinsic mean spiritedness or not, some landlords either totally stop maintaining buildings, or they start activities which are calculated to be 'legal' but which have the effect of driving the better situated existing tenants out.

Ive had the bad luck to be in that situation and I can tell you its total hell.

They might not burn a building down but they might stop maintaining critical systems which seriously impact the tenants, even things as important as a (often shared in older buildings) hydronic heating, fire alarms and sprinklers (common) and lighting in common areas. (or often they steal the electricity for it)

Even in areas where laws then require they stop collecting rent some period after citations issued by building departments are ignored, and notices given (even fining them if they ask for it) tenants are so terrified by the possibility of not ever being able to rent again that they pay anyway.

Even as the landlord is trying to drive them out!

If pipes freeze that will cause flooding which causes a major mold problem that if not immediately addressed makes a building virtually uninhabitable for its future, until its literally gutted and cleaned out. Roofs can literally be falling in on tenants. Still they pay rent.

Because- where are they going to go once blacklisted?

Another tactic is hiring 'work people' (often fake) to do 'renovations' that never end, and 'security guards" and even fake other tenants, to harass the inhabitants. They go to lengths to find the weak spot of somebody (for example, say somebody is sick, maybe they have AIDS, or asthma or RA, and are on drugs that leave them vulnerable to opportunistic infections, well, rent an apartment and fill it full of garbage and sick cats and have the litter boxes, overflowing and never cleaned, right next to them - where they share a balcony.

They exploit every possible weakness they can find.

Another tactic is to - as tenants who can move somewhere else, leave, rent the vacant units out on airbnb, to party groups, which makes it impossible for the other tenants who typically have jobs they must go to every day, having slept the night before, making it exceedingly hard to get sleep.

Another tactic is to barrage them with notices of various work which needs to be done, giving the minimum 24 hours notice, making it impossible for people to leave their apartment for any kind of extended period. (even as they make it hell.)

Imagine living in a nice multifamily building thats sold and suddenly apartment after apartment becomes short term rentals.

Housing in US cities like San Francisco and New York is extremely difficult to find. So difficult its increasingly common to find homeless working people. Or maybe they are not officially homeless but desperate enough to live in closets, garages and even camp out in backyards and on roofs.

There is a web site "the worst room" where you can see what your money might buy you in NY and SF now.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 08:19:43 am by cdev »
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2018, 07:16:02 am »
those nail houses always impressed me.

Sometimes I wonder if Leonidas was reincarnated as chinese.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #93 on: October 10, 2018, 08:41:03 am »
Sokoloff,

For the purpose of this discussion is the difference between "quadratic" and "exponential" growth that material?

Its an interesting comparison.

Suppose we just are discussing what matters to us, the knowledge which comes into the possession of ourselves, the world's population of human beings.

As more and more knowledge is being extracted from data by other means, a certain percentage of that knowledge now and likely more and more in the future will be collected and recorded in manners which make it difficult for us to fully understand it, or perhaps even understand it at all.

That possibility seems to me to illustrate what I meant about technology changing everything really well.

But unless one is directly involved with science (enough to have to deal with this speeding up in a visceral manner) you're far less likely to ever have thoughts about things like the rate of change and if it is accelerating exponentially or quadratically, and instead one likely bases life decisions on inherently flawed estimates of the rate of change in the future, flawed because they are based on one's own perception of the rate of change in the past.

Thats why politicians, economists, etc, again and again make horrible mistakes hugely underestimating the disruption caused by technology, the disruption it causes.

Back in the day, we used to joke that on the Internet everything happened in dog years.  In other words, seven times faster.

(That situation likely was the inspiration for the famous New Yorker cartoon.)  The Internet may not be the science where the biggest most earthshaking changes are happening any more, but its still changing the world very quickly, and not in a way thats likely to have a positive impact on employment.

Unrelated but important. The hype train and the cult of putting 'growth' and 'efficiency' for its own sake above everything else in a sort of race to the bottom on everything that matters to the people of the human race makes no sense to any smart person and indeed it is a Pied Piper leading us into (multiple) disasters.

At its core, its a bad model thats trying its best to obfuscate and steal the amazing gifts technology is giving us. Upon examining its core tenets, one sees that despite its hype, its not trying to facilitate progress, its actually trying to prevent and steal it.

Tooki, I agree with you - totally, but you have to understand, we're heading into uncharted territory now economically because of something important.

Exponential growth in knowledge and for that reason, uncertainty. Its a very good thing in almost all ways, or should be. But it would need democracy to be navigated successfully.

I doubt that the rate of knowledge increase is exponential. I can't see any mechanism that would be substantially higher than quadratic with time. (The world population is growing much closer to linearly - an R2 fit against a straight line of over 0.999, and knowledge acquisition is likely to be governed at the upper bound by some integration of previous knowledge and population.)

We need to start thinking about something important. Setting a good example for our offspring. Being good parents.

Treating others, no matter who or what they are, with respect in the way we ourselves would like to be treated.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 09:37:07 am by cdev »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #94 on: October 10, 2018, 10:12:53 am »
The melodrama seems to be getting high here.
This is a simple case of a commercial lease and a new owner wanting to end the lease once it's up. Nothing new here at all, happens all day every day in every city in the world.
Fran has a lease, and I doubt they can throw her out until the lease is up, subject to local laws.
It's the risk every company takes when they lease a place. And also the risk the owner takes in giving a lease (that usually includes extension "options"), in that they can't get it back until the lease expires.
 
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Offline edy

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #95 on: October 10, 2018, 10:21:29 am »
I'm also surprised more places don't do what Canada did and tax the hell out of properties owned by non-resident foreign investors.

Believe it or not, the amount of foreign investment is small.... it is NOT the main reason for prices going up, at least not in Toronto. I don't think that's the case necessarily in Vancouver either, or any of the other major cities.

The main problem is low interest rates, lack of new developments and generally just immigration of mostly ethnic populations (now the MAJORITY in many large Canadian cities) who wish to move to the large cities where they find their communities (food needs, religious, social, language, etc).

I happen to be a minority as well, just not VISIBLE... who happens to live in Toronto also to be close to my community that shares the same needs (schooling, religion, food, social groups, etc). And many people I work with are VISIBLE minorities who also wish to stay close to their ethnic communities. There is a lack of housing, historically low interest rates, and demand/supply is skewed... hence the housing "bubble".

We blame it on the foreign investors but even with them taken out of the picture or taxed like crazy, there is still a huge problem. If you move out of the major cities into small-town Canadian white-majority population areas you will not see this kind of housing feeding frenzy, and you can buy a huge house with tons of land at prices that have barely moved up.

The destruction and renewal of building spaces in large cities is necessary to create more space vertically for condos or other types of tentants because location is key, and the urban sprawl cannot continue indefinitely as it creates even worse traffic, pollution and inefficiencies.

Also, there is a general thought that purchasing property is a means of savings so even if you are paying a huge amount, you figure that it will go up in value and you will eventually cash out when you down-size. So as long as interest is fairly low and you can afford to pay, you buy... even if it seems a crazy amount, because when you rent you will save up NOTHING and build absolutely no equity. And also the longer you wait to enter the market, the harder it will be..

So once again, foreign investors are just a scape-goat for problems caused by our own country that nobody wants to really dig deep and look at. Americans may be more thinking of "melting-pot" mentality so ethnic people will go almost anywhere as long as it is close to their job. But Canadians are used to more of a "patchwork quilt" and so the major cities are attracting and keeping more people because that is where their ethnic social fabric and family and needs are.

Remember... the FREE MARKET will eventually push people away to other smaller cities/communities that are more affordable as long as people are willing to do it, and can give up their ties or rebuild new ones. How bad does it have to be before you leave Toronto? You can ask the same about New Yorkers... they love living in NYC and cannot imagine leaving, even though it costs them more and adds more stress to their lives, they have a love/hate relationship with the city. I lived and commuted through NYC for a number of years and talked to many people about this.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 10:29:09 am by edy »
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Offline thm_w

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #96 on: October 10, 2018, 10:23:12 am »
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China

Quote
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.

https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf

Quote
Consequently, local  governments  ultimately  control  the  rules  for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed  real  estate  is  much  more  than  the  compensation  fees  given  to  the evictees.
 

Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #97 on: October 10, 2018, 11:44:01 am »
For the purpose of this discussion is the difference between "quadratic" and "exponential" growth that material?
When discussing or contemplating the pace at which society must adapt to any type of sustained change, the difference between "adapt at a linear rate" (the first differential of x2) and "adapt at an exponential rate" (the first differential of 2x) is massive, IMO.
 

Offline technix

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #98 on: October 10, 2018, 12:52:31 pm »
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China

Quote
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.

https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf

Quote
Consequently, local  governments  ultimately  control  the  rules  for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed  real  estate  is  much  more  than  the  compensation  fees  given  to  the evictees.
At least in Shanghai the local authorities is currently maintaining a stiff upper lip regarding evictions - the government can help you hanging out banners, but it is up to the developer to negotiate, and no force is allowed or face immediate criminal liability. As of renters protection most of the residents are renters but they get the same treatment as homeowners really, since there is a belief in China that people should not be stripped of their last roof over their head. Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
 

Online langwadt

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #99 on: October 10, 2018, 12:59:09 pm »
Can Fran at least get some sensible compensation for evicting? Here in China after a few high-profile eviction dramas (those "nail tenants") the legislature actually passed laws criminalized those building cleaners and giving tremendous negotiation power. At least in Shanghai eviction for redevelopment usually leads to the tenant being given a new residence, often more than one if the tenant has kids or grandkids, and a lump sum of money as compensation.

Should Fran's situation happen here in Xuhui (kind of equivalent of Fran's current location in her city) she would get at least one apartment in the suburbs like Minhang (a bit far from he city center but close enough to the Metro lines) and close to US$1M in cash, and she is entitled to stay there until the redeveloper paid up.

I would never imagine when referencing renters rights, China would be used as a good example. Perhaps your information is correct in high-profile cases, as you say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China

Quote
Although forced evictions occur throughout China in both rural and urban environments, there are several notable examples in which hundreds of thousands of people were evicted. From 1993 to 2003, 2.5 million people were evicted in the city of Shanghai.[8] In preparation for the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, many of Beijing's densely populated neighborhoods were torn down in order to make way for new developments and infrastructure projects. The Center on Housing Rights and Evictions estimated that 1.5 million people in and around Beijing were forced from their homes, often with inadequate compensation. Chinese authorities maintained only 6,000 families were relocated, and that all received proper compensation.

https://www.ft.com/content/eac3c59e-41e5-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2
https://www.victoria.ac.nz/law/research/publications/about-nzacl/publications/nzacl-yearbooks/yearbook-15,-2009/05-Feng1.pdf

Quote
Consequently, local  governments  ultimately  control  the  rules  for market appraisal as well as the bodies that carry out the market appraisals. Evictees have no rights of resistance and no right to petition. Naturally, the developers put pressure on local governments. In particular, the sale price of commodity houses usually includes all kinds of costs. The result is that the high price of newly developed  real  estate  is  much  more  than  the  compensation  fees  given  to  the evictees.
At least in Shanghai the local authorities is currently maintaining a stiff upper lip regarding evictions - the government can help you hanging out banners, but it is up to the developer to negotiate, and no force is allowed or face immediate criminal liability. As of renters protection most of the residents are renters but they get the same treatment as homeowners really, since there is a belief in China that people should not be stripped of their last roof over their head. Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.

does she live at her shop? the rules are usually quite different for homes and "professional"
 

Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #100 on: October 10, 2018, 11:59:34 pm »
Somehow from what I can see the new developer at Fran's place have no regard about this and is willing to force people into hoboism just so they can mark up a piece of land and get richer.
Until someone clearly says that this is more than "we're not renewing anyone's lease once the term runs out", I'm going to work under the assumption that that's what happening, which is a simple, clear, and fair "both sides lived up to the bargain to which they agreed" outcome. I haven't heard anything to the contrary yet.
 
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Online schmitt trigger

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2018, 12:15:38 am »


Let's say she halved the space, 1000sqft is 92sqm. Only a few more than my lab+office.
Have you seen my lab?



This clearly demonstrates, that Nature abhors vacuum.

Specifically in an electronics lab.
 

Online schmitt trigger

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2018, 12:41:10 am »


You can also get blood pressure raising stuff like someone demanding a carpenter to come in to tighten a screw on a cabinet door (for real). Electrical inspection because someone 'smelled something'.

Someone in my family was a super.. and believe me it can be super frustrating. Going to your property and you see the place is a pig sty.


I have been a small landlord for 32 years. Only two units. Everything, and I mean everything, that you have mentioned is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. It is a whore job.
On top of it, insurance and taxes have been skyrocketing faster than what I can increase the rent.
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2018, 01:17:33 am »
Paterson, NJ, birthplace of beat poet Allen Ginsburg, and the American labor movement, was also the

...birthplace of the industrial revolution in the US (because of easily available hydro-power from the nearby Passaic River, which Alexander Hamilton and others harnessed).

 Paterson still has a lot of huge, well-illuminated (from natural light) surviving red brick industrial buildings from that period.

I don't know the current status of the buildings (besides the fact that the area recently attained status as a national historic park) but my gut feeling is that, if one can deal with the issues of a community thats still struggling with lots of poverty, (IMHO the  best way to do that would be by providing a resource that helped interested people learn about technology!) that it would be an ideal and welcoming place for a maker renaissance, with lots of available warehouse space, and that because of that rich tradition, something like a big maker space could likely get lots of support from the local community and maybe even grants from ???.

It sounds like the kind of proposal that can sometimes get supported by grant funds in various ways.

Because it helps people learn and get their lives going in a positive direction.

I should add the caveat though that parts of Paterson are still very poor, and it has its share of urban problems.  The area near the falls however is pretty and there are still many visible remnants of a thriving industrial area.

Although the area has the classic Rust Belt feel, the huge old buildings have a lot going for them because of the habit back then of providing factories with lots of natural light. The ones that remain, (that have not already been torn down) for the most part have NOT fallen into quite the level of disrepair I've seen elsewhere.

You can check the area out using Google Earth.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 01:43:09 am by cdev »
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Offline technix

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2018, 05:35:26 pm »
Paterson, NJ, birthplace of beat poet Allen Ginsburg, and the American labor movement, was also the

...birthplace of the industrial revolution in the US (because of easily available hydro-power from the nearby Passaic River, which Alexander Hamilton and others harnessed).

 Paterson still has a lot of huge, well-illuminated (from natural light) surviving red brick industrial buildings from that period.

I don't know the current status of the buildings (besides the fact that the area recently attained status as a national historic park) but my gut feeling is that, if one can deal with the issues of a community thats still struggling with lots of poverty, (IMHO the  best way to do that would be by providing a resource that helped interested people learn about technology!) that it would be an ideal and welcoming place for a maker renaissance, with lots of available warehouse space, and that because of that rich tradition, something like a big maker space could likely get lots of support from the local community and maybe even grants from ???.

It sounds like the kind of proposal that can sometimes get supported by grant funds in various ways.

Because it helps people learn and get their lives going in a positive direction.

I should add the caveat though that parts of Paterson are still very poor, and it has its share of urban problems.  The area near the falls however is pretty and there are still many visible remnants of a thriving industrial area.

Although the area has the classic Rust Belt feel, the huge old buildings have a lot going for them because of the habit back then of providing factories with lots of natural light. The ones that remain, (that have not already been torn down) for the most part have NOT fallen into quite the level of disrepair I've seen elsewhere.

You can check the area out using Google Earth.
This kind of reminded me that some rust belt cities might even have above average universities and other infrastructure built back in their heyday but the land price there plummeted due to the factories closing down. If Fran move there she might get easy access to materials and manufacturing services from the remaining factories, can just outright buy what remains of a closed down factory an sell whatever that is in the building to recoup some of the money, a steady source of well educated employees from the universities there, and MIT isn't far from there if she really need a star engineer on her team.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #105 on: October 11, 2018, 11:05:00 pm »
but moving to NJ or a 'rust belt' state could be pretty depressing.
not quite moldova but not exactly ivy league . and NJ smells bad.

even driving through some parts of PA I was like 'damn' .

what is it, like ancient turn of the century ware houses with those slatted windows on the ceiling your supposed to open up to keep the heat down?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 11:09:57 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #106 on: October 11, 2018, 11:22:59 pm »
The buildings I've seen have huge south facing windows, lots of them. This was because they were built before electricity was common, for natural light, when factories were largely powered by water. The mills were typically built right alongside major waterways. Those kinds of buildings, when renovated, are really nice.

That is, if they don't turn out to be filled with liquid mercury, as one in Hoboken, I think was. (Unusual situation which displaced an artists collective.)
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #107 on: October 11, 2018, 11:50:59 pm »
Just my 2c worth...

These replies seem to miss the point of the OP's video....

Fran clearly stated that she has a money problem both with money generally and money in the short term to pay for a move.

So the real issue seems to be revenue generation... There seem to be a number of approaches to that... The most obvious being YouTube ad revenue and Patreon but also Fran has a portfolio of products, both electronic and textile, that have made money in the past.

Perhaps the solution lies more in scaling those products to make money (and possibly outsourcing manufacture to places where labour and space is cheap)?

(Cost of premises is a universal problem... e.g. London Hackspace has just had to move out from central-ish London to the wilds of NW London for similar reasons)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2018, 07:33:29 pm »
These replies seem to miss the point of the OP's video....
Fran clearly stated that she has a money problem both with money generally and money in the short term to pay for a move.
So the real issue seems to be revenue generation... There seem to be a number of approaches to that... The most obvious being YouTube ad revene and Patreon but also Fran has a portfolio of products, both electronic and textile, that have made money in the past.
Perhaps the solution lies more in scaling those products to make money (and possibly outsourcing manufacture to places where labour and space is cheap)?
(Cost of premises is a universal problem... e.g. London Hackspace has just had to move out from central-ish London to the wilds of NW London for similar reasons)

I think if she just did a GoFundMe to move, she'd get a fair amount.
I still think if she makes her budget and requirements public (for the space + living + how far she's willing to move) and get the crowd to work on finding a suitable place she'd find somewhere nice.

As someone who is currently searching for a bigger combined place, just assessing all the option in my current business park is hard work. There are probably dozen of nice options she hasn't even thought about.
 
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Online schmitt trigger

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2018, 12:26:18 am »
I believe that Dave has nailed it.
She has some loyal followers, and if each one donated say $20US, she would obtain a significant amount of money.
I certainly would.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2018, 12:59:05 am »
If she could get some kind of grant to do education for what she does that might help (may have to be for kids though, as adult education in the US is now commercial.)

Does anybody in Philadelphia get to live in boats? (Are there stable communities of boat-dwellers anywhere?) Owning a small boat (they might be sold by a previous resident who is leaving the area, cheap) is a good way to have a cheap(er)(sometimes), semi-permanent place to live in some areas. In the not too distant past it was like that in the Bay Area, with lots of small marinas, some of which were also communities of boat dwellers.

Don't know the situation now. Back then it was somewhere in cost between living in an RV and renting. (RV's are another possibility but they can also be a trap when they are not in good shape, as can boats)

One friend I had back in the day had spent I think around $30k to buy a small piece of a much larger boat that was shared by a bunch of people and used as a home and office space. It was in Sausalito. At Gate Five. He got a small suite of rooms out of the deal. It was a pretty big boat.  Similar communities exist even on the usually insanely expensive Peninsula. (i.e Silicon Valley) At the edges of the Bay. Worth taking a trip around the edges of your local waterways to explore them on a nice weather (weekend) day and ask residents.. who will often be out enjoying the sun or working on their boats- now you know where to look. Also check out web sites for boaters. See the one below.

That seems like both potentially fun (if one makes the right choices which would seem to me to need help) and has the potential to be suitable for a semi-normal life.

At least with self-owned boats of moderate size, depending on the local environment for boat residents it may or may not have an advantage of being able to move it if your ability to tie it up in one place ends.

In SF, over the years I've had a number of friends who lived on their own, or shared boats. My mom who lived in Sausalito for a while in the 50s, before I was born, had friends who did too, back then. All sorts of artists and writers lived there back then and as far as I know, at least some still do.

Its (sometimes) less expensive than many other kinds of housing/rentals. Plus if you fix your boat up, you get the benefit of that work, not your landlord.

Flat boats, houseboats that are more for inland waterways than the ocean seem to be more appropriate for long term living. Bigger sailboats (with motors for backup) that are seaworthy are popular for living too, and there is a huge 'cruiser' community who travel and live on boats now. (Check out "Cruisers Forum" for info. The very cool boaters charting and navigation program OpenCPN is maintained by a core group of people who hang out there)

Boats aren't always cool.. they only are when they aren't holes people pour their money into - or traps for the unwary, which has always been my biggest fear (and should be Fran's)

This is where having a community of online supporters can really help. She has the best chance of finding a stable housing and work space if she's flexible in what she does next.

If only it wasn't for all that old "boat anchor" equipment it likely would be a lot easier for her. A small number of modern tools could likely replace a whole rack of old test equipment and work so much more flexibly she would never look back as far as most of it.

If in the future she finds a place to expand (not unlikely as many people get more resourceful in creative ways as we get older) she likely could rapidly accumulate a similar wealth of old test equipment quickly because of this housing and work space crunch. If someone has access to a vehicle, they often can get tech stuff for next to nothing, because its often advertised in local papers, craigslist for free, or close to it, if somebody would just come and pick it up.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 01:39:33 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #111 on: October 13, 2018, 01:22:09 am »
The weather in San Francisco is much more live-aboard friendly than in New England.
People do it (in very limited amounts) up here, but the winter conditions (cold, ice, snow) make for a "more sacrifices required" lifestyle than is true in climates without a deep winter.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2018, 01:48:02 am »
Good point (about the weather) Philly is quite a bit warmer than New England (in both winter and summer) but not quite Florida either. Not by a long shot.

I live not super far from there and although the weather is getting warmer, we're not even remotely at the point yet where its sub tropical.

Still, despite our cold winters, a few of the hardiest most cold-tolerant palms are beginning to be seen around here, in actual plantings (not pots)

although they all are pretty small, and subject to die back in a real cold snap.
 
Things I have read recently are making me wonder if perhaps the potential for very rapid climate change is increasing. Thats what experts seem to be saying now.

In particular, the situation with methane clathrate - is scary, Methane ice is trapped around the world in Arctic permafrost and along the coastal areas in the Continental shelf.

A look at the phase diagram for methane will show why its hydrate is problematic.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 02:08:02 am by cdev »
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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #113 on: October 13, 2018, 10:33:33 am »
I believe that Dave has nailed it.
She has some loyal followers, and if each one donated say $20US, she would obtain a significant amount of money.
I certainly would.
My idea was to make a "no IT knowledge required" cryptocurrency miner to help her. As an American, she should have no problem accepting Bitcoin which really expands what coins would be workable - basically any coin that's profitable to mine. I vote Curecoin/Foldingcoin to get some medical research done at the same time.

I thought about giving her my latest Amazon gift card from exchanging some Swagbucks, but had to abandon the idea since the exchange is not very trustworthy and best practice is to redeem the cards ASAP. (There's exactly one thing I like about Swagbucks and that's the high mining efficiency, even though it's way down compared to what it was last year.)
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #114 on: October 13, 2018, 11:51:19 am »
Patreon video, but I'm sure will be released shortly, shows the task ahead of her in moving, and she has about 7 weeks before the building is knocked down.
She can of course "stay" until her lease is up in July  ::) how generous of them.
They aren't buying out her lease.


 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #115 on: October 13, 2018, 12:16:20 pm »
I'm not surprised. Their permits probably don't allow them to work until all the leases were due up anyway. Typically permits aren't until done, you need a date so putting an early date in hopes you can start would be risky since it could shift your finish date. Of course in that case they can apply for new permits but why raise the costs for no reason.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2018, 01:39:37 pm »
Patreon video, but I'm sure will be released shortly, shows the task ahead of her in moving, and she has about 7 weeks before the building is knocked down.
She can of course "stay" until her lease is up in July  ::) how generous of them.
They aren't buying out her lease.

Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
VE7FM
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #117 on: October 13, 2018, 03:17:00 pm »
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.

Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2018, 01:00:22 am »
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.

Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
Exactly. The pressure to leave becomes unsurmountable, which may include recklessness (on purpose or not). I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
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Offline modrobert

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2018, 02:02:07 am »
Fran,

Snap out of that apathy and get busy with the move!

Clean out the stuff rarely used first, move it to temporary storage (or sell it) and go for something smaller than 2000 square feet, half of it will do fine. You will feel better when it's over, less boxed up junk in the lab, less shit to worry about. It's hard to feel sorry about your situation when most us make do with far less space, and less junk.

Use that insomnia for something useful instead of whining. If you need cash via Patreon or similar it's always easier by being specific, set goals where people can help with each part which also makes it less overwhelming. Looking forward to more of your videos about electronics, but no more whining, that sucks.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #120 on: October 14, 2018, 02:16:30 am »
i wanna see someone throw old vacuum tube at bull dozers
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #121 on: October 14, 2018, 05:12:35 am »
Clearly they can't actually knock the building down while she is still there. They can begin to demo the units all around her but if they really want to knock it down and start again they would need to wait until the end of her lease if she decided to stay. No way they need to do 9 months of demo work - maybe she should wait and see what happens.
Bad idea.
They'll make her life a living hell. It's a no-win game, get out now.
I agree. However from the video I also get the impression Fran is a bit of a hoarder as well. It seems to me 75% can be thrown away because A) it isn't used and B) it is cheaper to buy when needed instead of paying for storage.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #122 on: October 14, 2018, 05:27:21 am »
Too many home electronics labs looks like hoarder's rooms. It might be a professional disease, or some side effects caused by too much soldering fumes.

Please don't take this as offensive. I am an electronics hoarder myself, too.
Let's look for a moment at the funny side of owning "stuff".  ^-^

« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 05:32:12 am by RoGeorge »
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #123 on: October 14, 2018, 05:45:50 am »
I think it just comes with the territory. Engineers see the world differently, we know what's inside stuff, when something is broken we often see value in some of the parts contained within and think that some day we might repair the thing or harvest parts from it. I certainly do both of the above, although I also have a lot of stuff I haven't gotten around to doing anything with yet and may never.
 
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Offline G0HZU

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #124 on: October 14, 2018, 06:06:10 am »
One idea would be to find something amongst all that hoarded stuff/junk that is worth $3500 and sell it. Then use this to rent a nearby 1 bed flat for 6 months. Use the existing building for 'storage' until most of the stuff is sold. Also, this gives time to find an alternative (smaller) premises. If you don't sell or dispose of all the excess in time then I guess you can leave some of the clutter behind to get demolished with the building.

Otherwise it is going to cost a lot of money to move and store that stuff and also fund somewhere to live.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 06:09:33 am by G0HZU »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #125 on: October 14, 2018, 06:20:40 am »
If you don't sell or dispose of all the excess in time then I guess you can leave some of the clutter behind to get demolished with the building.
I don't think leaving stuff is a good idea. I bet the lease contract says that the premises must be left clean. Leaving stuff usually means the land lord hires cleaners at your expense and they don't choose the cheapest ones.

I think it just comes with the territory. Engineers see the world differently, we know what's inside stuff, when something is broken we often see value in some of the parts contained within and think that some day we might repair the thing or harvest parts from it. I certainly do both of the above, although I also have a lot of stuff I haven't gotten around to doing anything with yet and may never.
That is the hoarder's prayer. I used to hoard stuff as well and in reality you use maybe 0.01% of it. The space to store it costs more than the components are worth. Things get different if you turn it into a repair business but then you have to be disciplined and throw the really old stuff out. For example: back in the day when I repaired PCs I bought some boxes with PC parts. So when I got to an older computer I'd always have a spare VGA card or IDE interface to fix an old PC cheap. When I stopped fixing PCs I threw most of the stuff out or sold it. Discipline is everything.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 06:25:54 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #126 on: October 14, 2018, 08:28:28 am »
i cant see accumulation of expensive high tech equipment as hording.

I always saw it as a test equipment library. Can you really fault someone for owning a library? So long you don;t have a pile of shit to the sealing and its ergonomic how is it hording?

If you had a nicely arranged library in your home thats dust free, properly maintained an ergonomic no one would say shit. One of my big regrets was selling a old vacuum powered electrometer. I thought I got a digital one, but shortly after I sold it I realized it's nice to have more then one when working on weird circuits like hybrid amplifiers.

To me it seems hording is almost always proportional to your wealth, because wealth is required for proper storage and organization. If someone kept a private library of easily accessible old news papers to archive their towns history or something, and it was neat, no one would say anything bad about it, other then notice someone has money to spend and they have a fancy of archival of information. At that point its considered a private library.

If the same library of old news papers was found in poor conditions, unorganized and stacked in a way thats condusive to fire hazard, mold etc.. then it would be considered the road to a mental illness... even if all the news papers are theoretically readable...

But to follow best practice in manufacturing, like making test circuits in data sheets and all that stuff to categorize your circuits well, you need ALOT of stuff. Look at the PROPER requirements for something like a spectrum analyzer calibration (as per a HP manual). Its a room full of shit for one thing.

If you deviate that means you trust yourself to do research, compare equipment, etc. this can take alot of time for weird tests. Some people want to do it right and don't want to follow rules of thumb that work most of the time or spend their lives becoming a 'substitution expert'. While valuable for a companies bottom line, its not necessarily pleasant to do something like categorize an unknown comb generator to to some test... or figure out why you might get away without needing one

Same with high end mechanical shop. Imagine having all the go-no go gauges, different calipers, different standards etc.. quickly it looks alot different then shoving a bridge port, few end mills and calipers in your garage and calling it a equipped machine shop

Reading this thread I see alot of 'commercial get her done' talk, not actual deep interest in underlying physics, quality, etc.

I call this 'transfer functionitus', where you start to save money and time by making assumptions or making transfer functions equal to eachother in your head in order to solve electrical problems. There is alot more to engineering/design then just transfer functions. Also the more you get into metrology the harder it is to make substitutes. Everything starts to appear as a specifically engineered solution to a specific problem


TLDR:
"u don't work for NASA LOL NO NEED' (and the ~ is EVERYWHERE in your work)


Same thing for shop tools. I did work with my old family crap before I accumulated my own stuff and got used to working at a certain pace, at a certain stress level and certain expected quality per time/energy investment.

When I got higher quality tools of my own, more optimized to the tasks even with things like simple ergonomics, cordless, etc.. all aspects of the job were improved so long I planned out how to use everything. When I got certain tools I got criticism (whats the difference with the drill we had), then after a year I am the one complaining my tools don't get put back in the right spot. Sometimes it was the smallest most insignificant detail that changed how a problem is solved... to the point where I was scared that I wasted money.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:58:04 am by coppercone2 »
 
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #127 on: October 14, 2018, 08:56:24 am »
Fran, you've accumulated far too much stuff, you got to sell some of it, stuff is nice to have but do you really need it ? Sell the stuff you don't use or the stuff that gets seldom use, it's a difficult decision because there is always that "I can use it for this or that" excuse so I will keep it. What is important is the stuff you carry around in your head, the ideas, the projects, the knowlege you can pass on to others, that's something you carry around all day 24/7 and it takes up optimum storage space. It's what is in your head, your persona, that's what defines you woman and not the shiney toys, so just ditch the shiney toys because they are luggage you don't need.
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #128 on: October 14, 2018, 09:05:26 am »
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
 
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #129 on: October 14, 2018, 09:59:42 am »
Quote
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning
I wasn't calling the equipment toys but more like the attitude of the collectors, look at me I've got a whole shelf full of toys I seldom use.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 10:18:54 am by chris_leyson »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #130 on: October 14, 2018, 11:39:08 am »
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Even the highest quality equipment becomes old junk at some point. It is not easy to see because you get older as well. I have fallen into that trap myself by buying equipment which was way too old. Nowadays you can often buy better performing equipment which is much smaller and/or cheaper. It is better to have less space to fill because it forces you to think about what you really need in order to be effective. Having one oscilloscope which can do 3 things well is better and easier than 3 old boat anchors each with their quirks and short comings. Sometimes less really is better.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 11:47:08 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #131 on: October 14, 2018, 11:54:33 am »
I think calling equipment built by brilliant engineers to solve serious problems toys is down right demeaning. I don't know who conditioned craftsmen to call their stuff toys.
Even the highest quality equipment becomes old junk at some point. It is not easy to see because you get older as well. I have fallen into that trap myself by buying equipment which was way too old. Nowadays you can often buy better performing equipment which is much smaller and/or cheaper.
The problem is that in many cases, the modern replacement just doesn't have the charm of the original. It's not very difficult to build a digital audio player that will outperform any record player, but it just isn't the same overall experience.
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #132 on: October 14, 2018, 12:48:13 pm »
I sort of feel like the osciloscope is a edge case in terms of test equipment. Its something thats really useful to everyone so I feel like its been hyper focused on for development.

But in terms of practical use, its difficult to compare a quality tektronix analog oscilloscope to something like a rigol 1052e. I find low end oscilloscopes downright annoying to use, plus you need to consider all the very advanced plugins that were made for certain scopes. With low end stuff you can get hit by firmware bugs.

I actually think that just now you can start to get really good quality digital scopes.. I think I also prefer the trigger system on older scopes.

There is also the repair factor, which can be a big thing, and the up time factor, if your scope breaks and its real expensive you can be in a world of hurt (say a 8000$ scope vs some 100$ old ebay deal).

But some other stuff, like power supplies, there is little reason for the modern ones. Something like a old lambda precision series PSU is a great value, and other then the fact that the display is limited, its very stable, very low noise and very cheap. I would actually consider it a questionable business decision to buy things like a 800$ wheras you can get like 3-5 high quality power supplies (between 1-3 channels each) on ebay for the same price, or even more, to have redundancy and ruggedness, high quality parts being used, established documentation.

I think that tools useful for digital circuit work have reduced in cost vastly, but still, I would never use a freaking bus pirate over something like a 1660 logic analyzer system, and there are even merits to using things like serial mainframes/mini computer things for some work so you have known good hardware that will work. Easy to access setup, quality cables, good UI, your never gonna be writing fucking useless code to test blink LED's if you have a setup like that.

This is a bit of a stretch, but take something like a PLUTOSDR that I bought. Extremely cheap, extremely good capabilities for the cost in terms of digital/communications work.. but I have had to struggle to use it, pretty much I need to run a separate with a version of linux I don't like to make the thing work, without too much work, otherwise I will be on linux forums all day.

All the minaturization and modern design trends are not all peachy IMO.

I for instance have some Sorensen power supplies for high current use, which are remarkably small and light for their power output but they are a complete bitch to fix, built super compact.. I actually would prefer to dedicate a space to a big old hunking linear supply to work with for the same power levels.. and they are pretty noisy (in both senses) too. I don't wanna deal with that shit when I am making a prototype really. I see it as something to use post development on a test bench after some high power subassembly is already tested in categorized, to approximate what can happen in a realistic power use scenario (where you might use something like a meanwell switcher of the right kind to power it). You end up dealing with more variables that can mask intrinsic problems.

I have a large 3A/8V power supply from HP. Made in 1960. All I ever needed to do with it was replace capacitor.. I see no reason why its junk or why I should replace it with anything else. I can take it off the shelf, put it anywhere I want and do something like a circuit burn in, remote module test, all sorts of things, with no effort to build a power supply, relocate primary lab units, etc. Boat anchor digital stuff often has weird input ranges that make it robust too. You can conveniently probe some weird signal level along with all the other ones without making adapters etc. If its some gigantic digital stream your gonna need  to go with the poorly engineered cheap modern solution, but for nuts and bolt shit, keep it in a drawer. So much less frustrating.

But to be fair, I do have a fair bit of damaged/broke gear that is partially usable. But a economic and space analysis shows me that it siting on a cheap wire rack in the basement, with its cost, still is worth while compared to buying pricier equipment.. just the psychological factor is hard to get over sometimes. It mostly stays broke because there are fucking annoying ass design features which make it hard to fix (there is a HP function generator made of 4 PCB's all connected to each other in a cube made out of card edge connectors). Complete bitch to probe compared to some things. But I consider it a outlier compared to some other stuff. But I have also been getting side tracked alot and not planning it well. If I had to do it for a job, rather then enjoyment, it would all be fixed promptly with minor investment... I could strip and solder in the 40 or whatever bodge wires pretty quickly so it can be laid out on a bench and fixed, but I just dont wanna do that in my free time... if I got paid to do it though it would be done in a jiffy

with it being a hobby its just so easy to find other more entertaining things you can do once you reach a critical mass of crap...


***I do pitty the fool that does not have a digital oscilloscope
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 01:14:10 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #133 on: October 14, 2018, 02:00:31 pm »
Too many home electronics labs looks like hoarder's rooms. It might be a professional disease, or some side effects caused by too much soldering fumes.
Please don't take this as offensive. I am an electronics hoarder myself, too.

I won't show a photo of the current state of my 44sqm storage bunker...
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:42:40 pm by EEVblog »
 
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Online Bud

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #134 on: October 14, 2018, 03:08:08 pm »
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #135 on: October 15, 2018, 03:05:30 am »
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
 
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Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2018, 03:21:48 am »


for some reason this song comes to mind with some of the responses in this thread, in regards to being condescending lol
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2018, 05:21:14 am »
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location?  As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?

I tend to believe that the problem is mainly psychological and not practical reasons. Tired of moving, bored of the process etc.

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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2018, 05:49:37 am »
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?

My guess is 1k patreons, after all fees and taxes, means way, way less than $1500.
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Online Bud

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #139 on: October 15, 2018, 06:51:38 am »
When are you  guys going to realize that relying on donations is not a sustainable business model. If what Fran is doing is not making her living she should think about doing something different. Like it or not.
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #140 on: October 15, 2018, 06:55:51 am »
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?

I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ? 
 

Online ebastler

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #141 on: October 15, 2018, 07:21:56 am »
I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?

I do live in my own place, and have done so for many years. But not everybody does, because not everybody has a sufficient (and sufficiently steady) income to afford property and convince the bank to bridge the gap. Or people live in rented property by choice, because they actually want to stay flexible and mobile: In Germany, only 45% of the population own the place they live in. The cost of selling and buying a new place adds up to around 10% of the property value; so you are far less mobile once you own property.

But whether someone lives in rented space by choice or by necessity -- I would not demand that they reduce their lives to the contents of a couple of suitcases. Or tell them "that will teach you" when things go wrong and they have to (painfully) figure out new solution for their life.
 
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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #142 on: October 15, 2018, 07:47:06 am »
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?

My guess is 1k patreons, after all fees and taxes, means way, way less than $1500.
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I calculated that if supporters were to use some old smartphones/tablets to mine Swagbucks (at current profitability - i.e. including the recent halving) and send her all the profit, it would only take a little more than 100 supporters (each running one old smartphone/tablet) to basically double her donation income.

Now I wonder how to make use of that to actually help her. If I release the code used to make my miner run so well, would supporters be encouraged to set up their own mining rigs and pass a significant amount of the profit onto her or would all I end up accomplishing is destroy the only thing I like about Swagbucks - the high mining profitability?

There are other coins to mine, of course. Given it's entering winter in the northern hemisphere, maybe some less efficient coins are also worth considering?
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Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #143 on: October 15, 2018, 07:59:09 am »
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
I speak from experience. When i did not own a place i only had what i literally carry in hands, and two suitcases. I moved all stuff in 3-4 trips by Public Transit. Have You never owned a place ?
I don't think owning or renting a place is the issue. Even if you own a place you can be evicted for various reasons (toxic ground, unstable ground, building a road, etc, etc). The trick is to buy or rent something which is not going to be subject to those kind of problems.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #144 on: October 15, 2018, 08:06:21 am »
I don't drive so for me it's public transport. Last year I was made redundant, owed two months salary and was living away from home in a single rented room, quite a large room. No money for rent so I sold the two TEK7000 scopes and all of the plugins. Had enough to pay the rent and I managed to bundle all of the other miscellaneous crap into a taxi to get me the 150 miles back home.
It was an easy decision to sell the TEK gear, I needed the money and didn't have room for it back home. Loads of stuff just went into the local "electrical waste" recycling bin, some of which I regret, but you got to make tough choices. It took me about a week to sort everything out and finally move, dump the stuff you don't need and pack to stuff you might need. Managed to get it all into three 42L plastic storage containers and one of them was for books ! In the six years living and working away from home I had managed to collect a reasonable sized pile of stuff and out of 5 scopes I sold two, dumped two and kept a working one. Maybe I should have kept the 2465 and 2235 both with only one working channel but they came with the 54610B at auction. That was my biggest regret.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #145 on: October 15, 2018, 08:25:35 am »
I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #146 on: October 15, 2018, 08:31:21 am »
I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #147 on: October 15, 2018, 09:12:16 am »
Good luck Fran.

Sure if she owned the place there would be no question. Sure if she was making a lot more money it would be easier. Not everyone does either though.

A lot of creative people tend to accumulate tools and parts and think more about their passion and making stuff than about potential long-term issues.
That's just how it is. As long as it's not hurting anyone...

Since we don't know squat about her life outside of this (at least I don't), there's not much we can say. Just hope she'll be able to relocate without having to give up too much.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #148 on: October 15, 2018, 10:10:37 am »
I think the point is that if you have the space and money for everything you want have at it. If however a time comes you don't have that option you do the responsible thing and downsize. Selling stuff, giving it away, throwing it out, all valid when you don't have the option of keeping everything. I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe. It's not even a dillema you just do it.
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.

Sure, and that can vary case to case. However most people I've known end up collecting stuff they don't need over time(For working or hobbies). I was an automotive technician who moved into electronics design. I have 2 10' wide, 3' deep, 8' tall shelves in the garage, a large and a small toolbox, 4 large inside shelving units, and 2 decent size workbenches(one for each discipline). I have way more stuff I could get rid of than I need. Probably close to 4:1, in volume it'd be even greater. I wouldn't hesitate to get rid of anything not damn near worth its weight in gold and if it makes you money it probably is. Some stuff will absolutely make sense to keep, way more isn't worth the hassle if I had issues. I stopped using storage units years ago because I decided if I was storing it, it was likely losing me money. I'd be better off selling it or getting rid of it rather than letting it get old(er) in storage and paying for the privilege.
 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #149 on: October 15, 2018, 10:25:04 am »
Quote
I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe.
Quote
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
That's two different perspectives on "gear" business or hobby. How much gear do you really need and Fran has collected one hell of a lot gear. So if there is anyone in Philly please drop by Frans lab and give her a hand to help sort shit out or a least organise and help pack it, the clock is counting.
How many guitar effects pedals did FranTone Labs sell ? I don't know I don't play guitar.
That's the problem with creative people, we are like moths we flit from one "light bulb" to another, and collect all of the gear we need for the next "light bulb".
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 11:04:46 am by chris_leyson »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #150 on: October 15, 2018, 11:05:56 am »
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Reminds me of an old Mad TV skit where Oprah is explaining how she deals with post-9/11 economic uncertainty: “Three words: Buy. A. Mountain!”




Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.

Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?
It is a bit condescending. And yet, if you’re used to what it’s like renting in Europe, it may come as a shock that it’s also totally true. In most places in USA you can be kicked out with little to no notice. The US’s history as a place where homeownership is expected (outside of a few major cities), means that renting has always had a clear “second rate citizen” status. It’s something you do because you’re young and haven’t figured things out yet, goes the story. That it’s untrue, and that we need to create more equitable relations between landlords and tenants, gets forgotten in the “homeownership is the goal” chatter.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2018, 08:03:33 pm »
Let this be a lesson for her. If you do not have your own place you have to be mobile.
Has it occurred to you that this might come across as condescending?

Engineers tend to lack tact.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2018, 08:07:56 pm »
Quote
I'd get rid of everything I have to keep my wife, kids, and myself together and safe.
Quote
That depends on whether you'd need the gear to make money or whether it is 'just hobby stuff'.
That's two different perspectives on "gear" business or hobby. How much gear do you really need and Fran has collected one hell of a lot gear.

Fran has lots of interests, that tends to accumulate more stuff as a result.
Her Twitter username is ContourCorsets, she's had a sewing business for a long time as well.
 

Offline @rt

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2018, 08:14:25 pm »
The life of a renter. Not an exclusive club.
I’m not even sure why this is a thread. There’s a period I moved more often than Fran mentioned.
I just sold up a large and rare collection of retro computing in anticipation of it.
It’s heartbreaking, but I don’t expect the details to interest anyone else.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2018, 08:38:27 pm »
The life of a renter. Not an exclusive club.
I’m not even sure why this is a thread.

Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.

I'm looking at a big move right now. I currently own the lab and rent the 2nd office. This was always a stop-gap because the 50sqm lab was too small and buying a larger space wasn't really an option. My required 100sqm would cost >$800k. And it's next to impossible to get credit for commercial property.
So the options are:
1) Stay with what I've got.
2) Consolidate the lab and office into one bigger rented space, and then rent out my lab space.

I have found I space I like, the rent is reasonable, but they are being aggressive on terms. I'm not sure what to do.

Why bring it up? Because it impacts my audience too, I'd have to move the entire lab and set it up practically from scratch again.
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2018, 09:07:54 pm »
Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
Viewership is typically far less than 10k views per video. Looks like some significant downsizing is required with funds being raised by selling some of that stuff.  The move itself looks like a major endeavor.
Over the past few months I have been looking at my own stuff, in the context of making a will, and thinking how awful it would be to sort this out after I am gone.  I'm planning on selling or throwing my hoard but it is hard work parting with things that might have a use in the future  ;)
 

Online Alex Eisenhut

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Offline @rt

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #157 on: October 15, 2018, 09:12:12 pm »
That might be true, but it’s not the crux of the OP, nor what it occurs to me the video is about.
I relate to it sure, but sympathy, not from me.

In your case, I’d guess the move would be quite the undertaking, but in Fran’s case... I’m quite sure my stuff is much heavier, at least as much drama, and at least as often.

I’m glad I don’t work on vehicles.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #158 on: October 15, 2018, 09:31:04 pm »
Because Fran has 80k+ subscribers and a huge fan base. This will impact her audience immensely, not to mention herself.
Viewership is typically far less than 10k views per video.

What does that imply?, that's it's not worth discussing here?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #159 on: October 15, 2018, 09:32:47 pm »
Looks like some significant downsizing is required with funds being raised by selling some of that stuff.

I don't think that needs to be the case, and I've outlined a plan to help with that.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #160 on: October 15, 2018, 10:27:24 pm »
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?

i noticed in USA i heard stuff like 'sell it' quite a bit. It was always a fucked up last measure in my head. It's much less stressful to borrow money then to sell property.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 10:30:08 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #161 on: October 15, 2018, 10:54:45 pm »
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?

My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

That can make it very uneconomic, to regularly buy and sell (move) property. Because a significant chunk of the money (in percentage terms), goes straight to the government. So, if you borrowed most of the money, anyway. The loss is especially hard hitting.

Hypothetical countries example:
Loan $250,000 to buy property.
24 months later, sell for $250,000
You now owe the government $25,000 (or some percentage)
You still owe the loan people $250,000
So you have to somehow magic up $25,000 plus all the loan interest rates and other bills.
 

Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #162 on: October 15, 2018, 11:12:41 pm »
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?

i noticed in USA i heard stuff like 'sell it' quite a bit. It was always a fucked up last measure in my head. It's much less stressful to borrow money then to sell property.
If you have a short-term, temporary cash crunch and otherwise strong prospects for mid and long-term income, borrowing is better than selling useful assets.
If you have a long-term, structural deficiency on your income statement, borrowing money is only going to delay and worsen the inevitable day of reckoning and selling assets might be a better course of action.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #163 on: October 16, 2018, 12:10:11 am »
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #164 on: October 16, 2018, 12:11:35 am »
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.

Same in the UK (capital gains tax), but I know little about Australia, so that is interesting to know, thanks!

Despite being the other side, of a big planet. It is amazing (at least to me), how much similarity there is between the UK and Australia. Driving on the left, language, etc etc.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 12:13:14 am by MK14 »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #165 on: October 16, 2018, 12:16:02 am »
Despite being the other side, of a big planet. It is amazing (at least to me), how much similarity there is between the UK and Australia. Driving on the left, language, etc etc.

Strange... I wonder how that came about...  ::) ;)
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #166 on: October 16, 2018, 12:39:15 am »
Strange... I wonder how that came about...  ::) ;)

If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.

Ignoring obvious language differences.
I somewhat consider Germany, more similar (especially culturally) to the UK, than America.
Despite the history, of how the UK/Britain's involvement with the creation of America/Australia etc.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 12:43:03 am by MK14 »
 

Online glarsson

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #167 on: October 16, 2018, 12:45:00 am »
If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.
Some English subjects didn't want to stay in England and sailed to the new America, changing some bits just to make a statement.
Some English subjects wanted to stay but was forced to sail to Australia.
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #168 on: October 16, 2018, 12:46:04 am »
Back on topic.

Because Fran is just one person, there seems to be a huge amount of stuff and not much time to deal with the situation.
I think that things are not going to go, too well.

But maybe Fran's apparent intention, to put a huge number of things, into more storage, may ease up the situation enough, to give her time to settle things better in the longer term.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #169 on: October 16, 2018, 01:00:22 am »
Strange... I wonder how that came about...  ::) ;)

If you take America, as a similar, example.
There are quite a few, noticeable differences.
Such as driving on the right, some words in English are different, some noticeable cultural differences etc.

Ignoring obvious language differences.
I somewhat consider Germany, more similar (especially culturally) to the UK, than America.
Despite the history, of how the UK/Britain's involvement with the creation of America/Australia etc.
It's almost as though the radically different histories of USA and Australia could have had an impact on the end result!

As for USA vs Germany… (FYI, I'm an American who's lived in Europe for about 17 years.) Well, for one thing, "German" is the #1 self-identified background in USA, even above English, Irish, Italian, etc. And let me tell you, northern Germany is clearly where many American traditions came from. But ultimately, USA is a melting pot of countless influences.


As for differences in English by country: USA tends to have retained the historical (original) forms of many words which then changed in British English (and from there went on to be exported to the younger colonies). For example, the widely known difference in "can/can't" (where American English pronounces the vowels the same, while British English pronounces them differently) is not the result of American laziness (as is usually claimed), but because that was the original form, the form used when the American colonies were established.

Add to this new words added to both vocabularies, changes that happened on one side or the other, and the influx in USA of other native English speakers (namely, Irish and Scottish, and the occasional Welsh), and it's no surprise the accents are different. But at the same time, it's important IMHO not to dwell on the 0.1% that's different, and instead to remember the 99.9% that's the same. :)
 

Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #170 on: October 16, 2018, 01:55:19 am »
What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #171 on: October 16, 2018, 03:32:34 am »
Well, in the UK we have a kind of financial bubble in which houses fetch crazy prices, far more than they are worth. In fact it isn't so much the house that's worth that amount, but the land. You can pay almost as much for a plot with planning permission as land with a completed house. Whilst a plot which can't get permission to build is worth little. At the same time, interest rates on savings are next to nil. The lack of returns on other ways to invest money pushes investors to buy-up land or housing as an investment, and that exacerbates the housing price problem.

Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.

I've often thought of moving to other European countries where I could have a far better house and workshop, and some cash to spare, for the price of this place. That, and the taxes would be lower.  Of course the incomes are lower too, that's the only thing.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #172 on: October 16, 2018, 04:32:17 am »
{I've intentionally NOT replied to the secondary "English/UK" discussion, I accidentally seemed to have started. In an attempt to NOT derail the thread. Which could be important, for Fran. Sorry, if it affects you}

If Fran is truly, fed up with moving and all the hassle of dealing with huge amounts of equipment. Being moved from place to place and re-installed/sorted-out in the "new" premises.

Then, significant reduction in the amount of stuff she has, is probably required.
Just putting it all into extra storage, is only really a very short term fix.

I feel sorry for her. Because the more I think about it. The more of a problem, I can see with her current situation.

It is annoying that they are (in real terms), NOT giving Fran plenty of notice/time to sort things out.
They should be compensating her, for the shortened lease/contract time, as well.

I guess life can be hard, at times.

 

Online langwadt

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #173 on: October 16, 2018, 06:26:48 am »
are australians culturally less likely to sell property then english/americans?
My guess, is that it is probably because of big tax bills, on buying and selling properties, such as stamp duty.

If it's not your home then you get hit with capital gains tax.

surely that would depend on there being a gain
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #174 on: October 16, 2018, 07:17:51 am »
Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. Almost always in the cases I've seen, the storage bill far outweighs the value if the items.

IMHO the only time a storage unit makes sense is when there is a short term need with a finite timespan and a well thought out plan for dealing with it. We used one once to deal with an influx of stuff from a deceased relative so their house could be sold but we decided ahead of time it would be for no more than 3 months and then set right to work going through things deciding what to keep, what to sell and what to give away. I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #175 on: October 16, 2018, 07:22:54 am »
Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. Almost always in the cases I've seen, the storage bill far outweighs the value if the items.

IMHO the only time a storage unit makes sense is when there is a short term need with a finite timespan and a well thought out plan for dealing with it. We used one once to deal with an influx of stuff from a deceased relative so their house could be sold but we decided ahead of time it would be for no more than 3 months and then set right to work going through things deciding what to keep, what to sell and what to give away. I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

That is similar to what I fear is going to happen.
I get the impression from the unpublished-video in this thread, that Fran, is (sadly) in denial of this situation.
They really need to NOT have a lot of the stuff. There are all sorts of ways of getting it to a good home or disposing of stuff.

I'm too far away to help (directly), and would probably not be the right sort of person, to be able to help, either.

But they just seem to have far too much stuff, and don't seem to properly realize it.

Without a massive home or workshop, they are going to get into big difficulties.

I think the real problem here, is they have way too much stuff. If they had a normal amount of stuff, like most people. This would be an easy problem to sort out.
Find a new rented or bought place and spend a day moving the stuff into it. Problem sorted.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 07:24:57 am by MK14 »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #176 on: October 16, 2018, 07:29:29 am »
I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;) 

Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...
 

Offline KL27x

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #177 on: October 16, 2018, 07:34:56 am »
Quote
I have met people that went through this, with the strategically falling debris or the inadvertent blown water or sewage pipe invading the shop (hard to know the real intentions).
In Chicago, they used to just hire crackheads to break into your place to "burglarize" it every 3 weeks until you leave.

If I had nothing better to do, 9 months left on my lease, and no buyout offer, I might consider buying every type of insurance to cover any theft or incidental damage and maybe come out on top, lol. If your lease is costing the owner hundreds of thousands of dollars, they could at least make a decent offer for a buyout. 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 07:44:58 am by KL27x »
 

Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #178 on: October 16, 2018, 07:35:49 am »
I've known multiple people though who clean their house by piling stuff in a storage unit with no long term plan. Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;) 

Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...

But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).
Which accumulates over the years, to become a somewhat big total, of fairly wasted money.
Which would be better spent, towards buying somewhere permanent to live or other things.

I.e. Maybe it would be better, to treat the situation, like a failed/bankrupt business.
Have a big "fire" sale, and get rid of most of the stuff.
I guess it's easier said than done, in practice.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 07:42:18 am by MK14 »
 

Offline PointyOintment

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #179 on: October 16, 2018, 07:50:09 am »
Having helped clean out a few storage units, I strongly suspect that a majority of what gets stored in those places never moves until it gets discarded or given away when the unit is cleared out. […] Then pretty soon there's so much stuff in the storage unit that they don't know what's there and can't easily access most of it.

Indeed. I wouldn't recommend anyone get a storage unit for long-term occupancy unless they have a really good, usable inventory system to keep track of what's in there and also exactly where in the storage unit each item is. Preferably they would also reasonably expect to put in and take out items on a regular basis, such that they keep the storage unit and contents in mind.

Regarding Fran & Dave downsizing: Why not sell stuff to subscribers and other fans? That would keep the equipment in good hands, and raise a bit of money for moving. Possibly add a condition that the buyer give yearly updates on what they've done with it, even if the update is nothing more than "it's still here" or "I sold it on", to ease everyone's minds about nixie gear getting scrapped and the like.

Online Bud

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #180 on: October 16, 2018, 08:14:49 am »
Before you sell you need to inventory the stuff, then you need to ship the items, let alone create listings for sale. This is huge work. 
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #181 on: October 16, 2018, 08:49:11 am »
Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.

This isn't true - the problem with UK vs other EU countries like Germany are 6 month short hold tenancies. You WILL be kicked out every 6 months by default if your landlord decides there are better paying tenants or just doesn't like you on a whim, or that the latest batch of "refugees" are far more profitable as they are paid and guaranteed by the state.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #182 on: October 16, 2018, 08:53:30 am »
What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Google “glottal stop”. It’s a common sound in many languages.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #183 on: October 16, 2018, 09:22:28 am »
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location?  As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?

I tend to believe that the problem is mainly psychological and not practical reasons. Tired of moving, bored of the process etc.

She is hiding her donation dollar total, which many people do, but it could be anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per month ($951 x $1-3).

For comparison: Dave $2.73 donation per person, Julian I. $1.56, Micah $4.33. Its nice that some post the info publicly to compare.
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #184 on: October 16, 2018, 09:45:12 am »
Renting is also ridiculously expensive. Although, you do have a fair amount of security here as a tenant. You can't easily be kicked out unless you fail to pay the rent, and if the landlord tries to increase it unreasonably, you can go to a tribunal.

This isn't true - the problem with UK vs other EU countries like Germany are 6 month short hold tenancies. You WILL be kicked out every 6 months by default if your landlord decides there are better paying tenants or just doesn't like you on a whim, or that the latest batch of "refugees" are far more profitable as they are paid and guaranteed by the state.

here that is because if the contract is not time limited, the landlord lets the renter stay beyond the limits and bunch of other traps it basically
becomes interminable

 

Offline KL27x

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #185 on: October 16, 2018, 10:16:36 am »
Quote
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month? Aren;t those money enough to grand her a nice place as a lab in her location?  As far for the moving process she could ask the help of people from a local hackerspace?

I know plenty of people that live paycheck to paycheck and are constantly "broke" and need to borrow money for any trouble in their life. Sure, they have a retirement account worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. But they are "broke," and that's the story they stick with.

this is the new modern day thing. Socking away most of your savings into a 401K, have a nice retirement account, and still live the bohemian life.

But if she's making 1000 a month from Youtube and she's actually broke, then she probably makes a large percentage of her income from Youtube, compared to w/e she's doing with the other 1500 square feet of metro real estate/workshop/production (making guitar pedals/effects or w/e she does). Maybe she ought to take a trip to the dumpster and downsize a little, if she wants to stay in the city. Focus on what brings in the net profit per square foot of lease.
 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 10:31:12 am by KL27x »
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #186 on: October 16, 2018, 10:50:44 am »
the bohemian life is pretty shit.

people get stuck doing that stuff. leaving the lights on turns into some kind of capital offense. don't you notice your sanity slowly leaving you around those kinds of people?

went to college, designed high tech equipment for rich people, pp&j on toast for lunch?  :scared:
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2018, 11:41:59 am »
Only an idiot would dip into their 401k to pay for day to day expenses. Most people greatly underestimate the amount of money they need to retire and do not save nearly enough, not the other way around. This is one reason that retirement is a pipe dream for many.

Taking in $1k/month would be poverty in this area. You'd be lucky to scrape by renting a room in someone's house and relying on public transit.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #188 on: October 16, 2018, 04:51:06 pm »
What is the city she lives?

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Online ebastler

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #189 on: October 16, 2018, 05:11:29 pm »
What is the city she lives?

Alexander.

It is perfectly acceptable to actually read the thread (or at least, say, the original post) before asking questions.  :P
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #190 on: October 16, 2018, 09:02:59 pm »
What I don't understand with English from England is how in some accents the letter "t" disappears completely. "Saturday" become "Sa - urday".
Google “glottal stop”. It’s a common sound in many languages.

Or ask any native of the East End of London to pronounce "glottal stop" for you — a dialect in which that phrase is self-defining, alright Guv?
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Offline station240

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #191 on: October 16, 2018, 09:11:41 pm »
She has about 1k of patreons. She must be receiving what? Around 1500 USD per month?

She is hiding her donation dollar total, which many people do, but it could be anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 per month ($951 x $1-3).

Fran for whatever reason has a few trolls that post in every single one of her videos.
Comments like "stop begging for money" "what is this [swear word]" etc.
It's about the time this started, that she hid the total donation amount.

My understanding is the donations cover the youtube channel and related projects, without that money the channel would be abandoned mostly a the time spent making things to sell instead.
However given the recent landlord decision to screw Fran out of a year's lease, she needs the money.

To the fools telling Fran to just bin most of her stuff, and move into a caravan or something. You owe Fran an apology.
You have no idea what Fran owns, what she uses it for, or what it's worth.
If someone binned your most useful but ugly looking tool/machine as it was taking up space, you would be livid.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #192 on: October 16, 2018, 10:34:07 pm »
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #193 on: October 16, 2018, 10:40:39 pm »
Regarding Fran & Dave downsizing

I'm not downsizing, in fact I'm upsizing, I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
And I'll be saving money by upsizing actually.
 
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Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #194 on: October 16, 2018, 10:54:06 pm »
I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
I hope it was selected purely on the basis of the other tenants.... i.e. the dumpster room potential  :)
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #195 on: October 16, 2018, 11:49:00 pm »
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price

So about £16 per square foot per annum - which is the standard way of thinking about commercial rents in the UK. To put that into perspective, the current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #196 on: October 17, 2018, 12:10:15 am »
I just paid a lease deposit on a larger space and will be combining my lab and office again shortly.
I hope it was selected purely on the basis of the other tenants.... i.e. the dumpster room potential  :)

Same dumpster room!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #197 on: October 17, 2018, 12:15:03 am »
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

 :o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.
 

Online coppercone2

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #198 on: October 17, 2018, 12:23:50 am »
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...



Does anyone actually have alot of respect for their land lord? :-DD
 

Online ebastler

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #199 on: October 17, 2018, 12:24:59 am »
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

 :o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.

The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.

Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #200 on: October 17, 2018, 12:50:44 am »
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

Maybe that owner actually worked running a factory or doing R&D to afford to buy the land in the first place?
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #201 on: October 17, 2018, 12:51:11 am »
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.

 :o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.

The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.

Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?

That would usually include some joint facilities management fees (which are almost inescapable in UK rented commercial properties) but excludes everything else. UK commercial property has always been expensive and recent (10-20 yrs) general shifts in the property market have made it even more so. You can get better rates in the north of England, but most technology companies are in the South/South East where rents are the highest. At the very bottom end it can be a little cheaper, renting a single (grotty) office with a desk over a local shop would set me back £300 per month.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #202 on: October 17, 2018, 12:55:55 am »
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

Does anyone actually have alot of respect for their land lord? :-DD
At somewhere along the way, rather than using money to consume, someone used money to invest in land, buildings, or other rentable improvements. That they are now reaping the benefit of that foregone consumption is no more offensive to me than someone enjoying the shade of a tree they planted 20 years earlier.

I respected all three of my individual landlords. One was a divorced woman renting a third of her house where she'd done some remodeling to block off a hallway, add a kitchen and bath, and make what would be an illegal apartment in most cities (but out in the unincorporated area, it was likely legally unfettered). She was giving up a third of her house to me to make ends meet. The second was a mid-60s (estimated) handyman who converted his basement of a split-level into a similar setup and renting to me to make ends meet. The third was a real-estate agent who bought a triplex, lived in the bottom unit, rented the top two out to make the mortgage, then moved out and bought another triplex to continue to the same process and I moved into his old owner's unit. He was doing better financially than the previous two, but there was an obvious linkage between his sacrifice (of time and money) and the little real estate empire he was beginning to build for himself.

So, yes, I have a lot of respect for all three of them. The commercial landlord I rented from I have no information or knowledge of, but given that their investment allowed me to live in a place that I enjoyed and couldn't afford to buy and that they lived up to every aspect of their end of the lease, I also respect them.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #203 on: October 17, 2018, 01:01:43 am »
The current UK commercial rental on light industrial/office space in a business park in a so-so location is around the £70/sqft/annum mark - that's advertised asking price one might negotiate some discount.
:o
Rates in my business park start at about AU$300sqm (AU$28 sqft /£15.1)
And it's a very upmarket business park. Resmed, Woolworths and other big names are there.

The UK rate seems very high indeed. Here (in Hamburg, one of the more expensive cities in Germany) you would be looking at costs close to what Dave mentioned for Sidney. Unless you want an office right in the city center, that is.

Just to make sure: We are talking about net rent, excluding utilities, facility management etc., right?

Yes, my price does not include "outgoings" as they are called here.
The smaller the office gets the more expensive per sqm. For example, my current office is about $500 sqm for the 33sqm, $400sqm for a larger one, again, not including outgoings. But it's probably the best and most prestigious building in the park and has a front desk concierge. Really schmick, I hate to leave it actually.

In the park across the road you can get large office spaces for under $200 sqm, like this random one:
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-offices-nsw-castle+hill-502666534
The combined warehouse/office thing is cheaper again at about $180sqm
https://www.realcommercial.com.au/property-industrial+warehouse-nsw-castle+hill-502898898
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 01:15:37 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #204 on: October 17, 2018, 01:04:25 am »
My old lab will be available for rent shortly, anyone want me as landlord?  ;D

Actually, most commercial (and residential) places are run by management agencies, so you never really know who your landlord actually is.
 

Offline RickBrant

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #205 on: October 17, 2018, 05:11:45 am »
Fran should maybe investigate rural-ish western PA - the rural areas around Pittsburgh, in Washington County, etc.

I don't know the situation around Philadelphia but rural western PA is extremely depressed and yet not that far from "civilization".

I'd donate to a GoFundMe.

(This thread is increasing my resolve to hold a garage sale.)

« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 06:44:03 am by RickBrant »
"banging meter needles into stop pins since 1965"
 

Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #206 on: October 17, 2018, 06:50:00 am »
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price

It is a fairly expensive thing, at those prices.
For you, with a thriving YouTube and other stuff, business. You can justify (business case) and afford it.

Similarly, if the area in the US's, storage rental rates can drop enough, in a unpopular, not so convenient location. Which I hope is possible, but I'm not familiar enough with the US, to be sure.

Maybe Fran's YouTube and business activities, can afford the storage.
If they CAN'T afford them, then solutions, such as downsizing, need to be considered.
But maybe Fran could raise prices (on the other activities) and attempt to make more money via the YouTube things.

In fairness to Fran and others, stuff in life costs money. If Fran has effectively created a tiny/modest TV channel like thing (YouTube), then there is a need for some revenues to come in and pay for things, like rent etc.

I've seen and enjoyed some of Fran's videos, in the past. Such as weird, somewhat long forgotten, display devices. Which they very determinedly, researched and got it working, for the video. It was very nice to watch.

Actually, I've just had a look, to refresh my memory.
I've really enjoyed, lots of Fran's videos, on various rare things. Such as rare electronics kits, rare LED's, space related electronics etc.

I'm now beginning to feel guilty. I'm not particularly good, at brand recognition. I tend to just watch interesting videos, without necessarily remembering the channel it was. I'd forgotten how many of Fran's videos I'd watched and enjoyed.

Unfortunately, I'm the sort of person, who watches electronics related videos, but who doesn't send any money. (I don't want to admit my adblock status, but you can probably guess ).

In the case of Daves EEVblog, he does sometimes sell things, which I am at least tempted to buy, at times. Such as multimeters, and microcurrent devices. So, sooner or later, I could end up contributing, indirectly, financially.

This post has got, too big, sorry.
Modern life seems to have created this YouTube channels thing, whereby MOST viewers, can just not directly pay any money for it (i.e. it is "free"). Rightly or wrongly, that is the way of the world (of youtube), at the moment. But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.

i.e. A sort of Netflix for YouTube. So if you watch lots of electronics related videos, they get a significant chunk of your subscription to youtube. Hence can carry on, doing their stuff.
But I'm a tiny/minute cog, in a massive machine, full of giant cogs, so can't initiate changes like this, myself. Unless I turn into Bill Gates, or similar, and do it myself.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #207 on: October 17, 2018, 07:34:09 am »

And then, once you have convinced yourself that you don't even remember what's there, and that you have never accessed anything over the past 5 years, chuck it all out! ;) 

Doesn't sound like the worst of plans to me; it takes some pain out of the decision-making process...

That sounds like a good way to waste a lot of really valuable stuff potentially. No sense in throwing the baby out with the bath water, at least take some time to go through it, I regularly find treasures I forgot I had or didn't know what I had done with when I clean out a closet or the garage.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #208 on: October 17, 2018, 07:38:44 am »
Before you sell you need to inventory the stuff, then you need to ship the items, let alone create listings for sale. This is huge work.

What I've done a few times and helped others do is do is first do a quick sort between keep and dispose of, then do another quick sort through the dispose of pile, cherry picking all the stuff that I'm fairly sure will fetch enough to be worth the trouble of selling, then I get a bunch of flat rate boxes from the post office and start listing a few items each evening on ebay, packing them up in a shipping box as I finish listing them. Then I start going through the less valuable stuff and make some collections of similar stuff and list these for sale as small lots, then if I have time I list some of the lower value stuff or just give it away. Anything not worth selling that I can't give away, that's when I consider tossing it out. The key is to make sure you deal with a few items every day, until it's all gone.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #209 on: October 17, 2018, 09:48:04 am »
But that will cost money (I'm not sure exactly how much, in the US), to rent the storage space(s).

In Sydney a 6m x 9m (54sqm/580sqft) storage shed is about $1400/month. $1000/month for 6m x 6m.
You can actually lease a unit/apartment for the same price

It is a fairly expensive thing, at those prices.
For you, with a thriving YouTube and other stuff, business. You can justify (business case) and afford it.

I actually own my own 44sqm storage unit and rent it to myself  ;D (yes, it's legal)
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #210 on: October 17, 2018, 09:50:47 am »
But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.


They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #211 on: October 17, 2018, 10:40:20 am »
I actually own my own 44sqm storage unit and rent it to myself  ;D (yes, it's legal)

That makes perfect sense. The UK is similar, where similar things are done, to (usually fully legally), allow you to pay the tax you need to, but not more. But some extreme tax saving schemes are both morally wrong (arguably), and potentially illegal these days. Which for example, some massive plc companies do.

They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.

I will seriously consider that, for the coming future.
Google messed up partly, because some time ago, I was seriously considering getting it. But then found out, that at that time, it was NOT available in the UK  :(
Now that it is available, I can look into it.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #212 on: October 17, 2018, 12:54:10 pm »
But google sooner or later (I know they already partly started this), may move to a more subscription like model, and allow people like me, to essentially contribute to the channels, without actually specifically paying a particular channel with contributions.


They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
Alas, only available in a few handfuls of countries. :(
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #213 on: October 17, 2018, 01:27:30 pm »
Youtube is down hard at the moment - can't be good for anyone's video based business!
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #214 on: October 17, 2018, 02:14:22 pm »
It's kind of irritating how much someone can charge for owning land and get rich off of it and the hard work of running a factory or doing R&D is taxed so heavily...

Maybe that owner actually worked running a factory or doing R&D to afford to buy the land in the first place?

Good point. ;D

Thing is, in some countries, real productive work is actually taxed more than rental income. That's probably this part that is highly debatable, not the fact you can make money off owning a property - and the fact that some owner actually worked hard (and got taxed accordingly at the time) to own a property (which is not always the case but obviously happens) doesn't really change the idea that this tax policy is biased.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #215 on: October 17, 2018, 02:21:51 pm »
Lots of people who put stuff in storage lose their possessions to the bills, which mount up. It ends up being auctioned off to whomever shows up with cash.

And its just heartbreaking to see people pleading to get some prized item, family photo or important document out of the auction items. Lots of the time, of course, they dont even know its going to be sold, not having an address to receive the notification at. Evictions and homelessness in the US are at all time highs.

Best to just sell the bulky stuff and not put things in storage unless they are really irreplaceable. The cost is too high for storing anything like old electronics unless it really is valuable. Not just interesting.

Personally, I think its a bubble that is bound to break. There is less and less real wealth creation, much of what we see is just churning, money-mad landlords displacing good tenants like Fran in order to get some pie in the sky deal that may never pan out.

Last I looked my old apartment in SF was still on the market for one and a half million dollars. Or had it been sold and then resold. It doesnt matter. It was a nice top floor flat. I lived there a long time, and it made me really ill. A super toxic challenge for anybidy because the mold was just inside everythunbg inside the walls and they never cleaned it out. Just painted it over. beware, the inside of the building's walls were is a mold trap.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #216 on: October 17, 2018, 02:25:38 pm »
Now I own and my walls are my own. Thank god.

Looking to finish a survey of my house I am doing for Photogrammetry

Dense point cloud....
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #217 on: October 18, 2018, 03:38:46 am »
Thing is, in some countries, real productive work is actually taxed more than rental income.

Such as Finland, with work-based income taxed quickly at 70%, while capital income is at 34% max. (Both progressive as of now, but the latter is almost linear.)

The progressivity which quickly gets over 50% causes interesting things, and the whole system works around no one actually getting a big payroll, but through other legal, "gray" or even illegal ways, so after this, we basically have a non-progressive tax system. For example, we have a system in which the employer can pay tax free money for the employee driving their own car quite arbitrarily, by a rate much more than the car maintaining or fuel costs, which encourages people to drive as much as possible to get extra tax free money. This is freaking great for our environment...

This is designed so that it's best to either be super rich (being able to circumvent the taxes in multiple ways), or be in the "higher low class" with low enough income so that the progression doesn't feel yet, then live wisely with what you have. Middle class easily pays 50-60% taxes (and they often feel they need to have high-class symbols they can't afford, typically bought with loans), and the absolutely lowest class tends to drop out through the gaping holes in the overly-complex social security system, whose primary purpose is to give "social security" to the social security workers themselves by having as many different parallel systems as possible, and a lot of paperwork. Here, it's rare not to receive any kind of monetary social benefit directly or indirectly, usually meaninglessly small for the big picture, but it keeps the bureaus running.

What it's worth, it's inevitable that living in a largish city with big premises is going to be expensive, but I guess this isn't news to anyone. While most seem to be suggesting downsizing the space requirements, my suggestion wouldn't necessarily be downsizing, but instead, maybe compromising with the location. Yeah, not that much café culture on countryside, but living peacefully closer to the nature may work as well. For me, my heart is in the forest, in serenity. (Which is one of the reasons I like being where I am, even though I loathe "the system".)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:41:29 am by Siwastaja »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #218 on: October 18, 2018, 05:08:08 am »
This is designed so that it's best to either be super rich (being able to circumvent the taxes in multiple ways), or be in the "higher low class" with low enough income so that the progression doesn't feel yet

Absolutely, same as in France. I guess those countries that have (or at least pretend to have) heavy social programs actually tend to favor the super-rich. Something to think about.
Additionally, taxing productive work too much is counter-productive IMO and as you said, tends to be an incentive for tricking the system when you can. Not morally sane IMO.

What it's worth, it's inevitable that living in a largish city with big premises is going to be expensive, but I guess this isn't news to anyone. While most seem to be suggesting downsizing the space requirements, my suggestion wouldn't necessarily be downsizing, but instead, maybe compromising with the location

Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #219 on: October 18, 2018, 01:05:19 pm »
Absolutely, same as in France. I guess those countries that have (or at least pretend to have) heavy social programs actually tend to favor the super-rich. Something to think about.
Additionally, taxing productive work too much is counter-productive IMO and as you said, tends to be an incentive for tricking the system when you can. Not morally sane IMO.

Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
Even if your job doesn't tie you to a specific location, jobs tend to be clustered around city areas and also higher paying in those places. Only if your job is fully independent of the location it really pays.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #220 on: October 19, 2018, 01:25:46 pm »
Two words: Services Liberalization.

Fully agree here. Especially if your job doesn't tie you to any specific location and you have no young kids. Just find yourself a nice place outside of the city for much cheaper.
Even if your job doesn't tie you to a specific location, jobs tend to be clustered around city areas and also higher paying in those places. Only if your job is fully independent of the location it really pays.

Enjoy your life while you can! Just don't make any binding financial commitments based on things remaining as they are. Churners - like Fran's new LL, are likely to over-leverage themselves and find themselves in debt to the Mob. Except this time the Mob will be overseas investors who have no mercy. The sharks are circling.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 02:16:03 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #221 on: October 19, 2018, 02:00:12 pm »
They already have that, Youtube Premium. Sign up and you get no ads, access to Premium content shows, and all the creators you watch get a cut of your money without you having to worry about it.
What % of the fee actually goes to the creators? What about creators who do not have it set up to accept payments? I don't think the ad free part is worth much when there are many free adblockers for that, but the premium content might be worth it. (What is "premium" content anyways? Movies?)
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #222 on: October 19, 2018, 03:30:48 pm »
What % of the fee actually goes to the creators?

Complex algorithm. Depends on how long they watch, and how many others to watch. It gets auto-magically divvied up

Quote
What about creators who do not have it set up to accept payments?

Anyone who has a monetisation enabled gets Premium income as well if a premium user watches their video.

Quote
I don't think the ad free part is worth much when there are many free adblockers for that, but the premium content might be worth it. (What is "premium" content anyways? Movies?)

Movies and shows like Kobra Kai (worth it just for that!)
I think I can make content Premium users only, but haven't looked into that.
 

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #223 on: October 19, 2018, 03:51:15 pm »
I'd be quite reluctant to pay for a service that "promises" to pay the creators without proof of how much actually goes to them. It could be something like 10% or less in which case it would be even more of a scam than record company deals. In contrast, Patreon boasts that 90% goes to the creator and some cryptocurrencies (not Bitcoin except for large transactions or special cases) do even more than that.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #224 on: October 20, 2018, 08:43:24 am »
She finally has a GoFundMe set up, and it's doing very well!

https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home/
 
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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #225 on: October 20, 2018, 01:36:24 pm »
Is she able to accept Paypal or Bitcoin?
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline Towger

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #226 on: October 20, 2018, 04:37:01 pm »
She has already exceeded her 10k goal in 13 hours.
 
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Online sokoloff

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #227 on: October 20, 2018, 10:04:20 pm »
She has already exceeded her 10k goal in 13 hours.
Which is roughly 5% of the time that EEVBlog forum wrung hands and tossed opinions about it... ;)
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #228 on: October 22, 2018, 11:23:50 am »
And now over $20K in just 2 days! :)
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #229 on: October 22, 2018, 11:48:26 am »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #230 on: October 22, 2018, 02:11:08 pm »
Thats great. I hope she can get enough to find a good new space with room for her equipment.

Philly, with its gentrification, is still nowhere near as bad as SF or NYC!
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #231 on: October 22, 2018, 03:06:05 pm »
I'm still creaming at the screen to let us help crowd source a place!
99% of the recommendations might be not suitable, but all it takes is that one gem of a place to make it all worthwile.
Finding a new place to uproot your life too must be very difficult, it's not like she it just moving a lab, it's her home as well.
 

Online Richard Crowley

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #232 on: October 22, 2018, 03:19:27 pm »
In two days Fran has raised over $21 thousand of her $10 thousand goal on Gofundme.
In an update video she said her landlord is helping to pay for moving, and the donation $$$ will go for a down payment on rent-to-buy in her new place.

Ref:  https://www.gofundme.com/franlab-needs-a-new-home

 
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Offline Towger

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #233 on: October 22, 2018, 04:06:34 pm »
I'm still creaming at the screen

Too much detail Dave,  we already know you have a thing for the vintage test equipment, even if it is in the background!!
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: FranLab is getting evicted
« Reply #234 on: October 23, 2018, 01:59:45 pm »
Thats great but - Fran if you read this, please try to raise more money. $20k may seem like a lot but - trust me, it isn't in any urban context. You should try to have this next move be a permanent one, i.e. try to buy a place to work and live if possible. Otherwise its not at all unlikely you'll find yourself in the same position again and all this is going to get old fast.

Some urban areas change so quickly you go away for a few years and when you come back you almost don't recognize it. The funky livable areas become popular and trendy and thats what kills them. All that oppressive trendy-ness makes it too popular which ruins everything, and of course its soon too expensive for the people who made it happen in the first place and they flee.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 02:13:58 pm by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

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