Author Topic: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial  (Read 7604 times)

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Offline feeltech

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FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« on: April 04, 2018, 06:50:11 pm »
In order to thank our customers for their support and love for feeltech Technology Co., Ltd., the company decided to launch a “free trial” event.Five FY6800 signal generators will be distributed for free at this event.
Activity Rules:
1.   Activity time:2018.4.4-2018.4.13
2.   Must be a registered member of http://www.eevblog.com/.
3.   Must have more than five years of experience in the development of electronic engineers
4.   Must have electronic related instrumentation equipment (oscilloscope, multimeter).
5.   Users who have obtained "free trial" qualification and have received the signal generator must send relevant "performance test", "functional evaluation", "relevant advice" or "use tutorial" etc. on the eevblog forum or YouTube.Bowen or video.
6.   You must following to FeelTech's official Twitter before signing up for the trial, https://twitter.com/feelelec.
7.   Please send your own post or video address to activity@feeltech.net.
8.   We will conduct post or video quality monitoring and evaluation for all users who have obtained the "free trial". The top two users will be used as the next "free trial" quota.
9.   The right of final interpretation of this event is owned by FeelTech Technology Co., Ltd.?
how to apply:
Please send the following content to activity@feeltech.net to register successfully. We will announce the list of successful “free trial” activities on Twitter and eevblog forum at the same time.
1.Name
2. Country
3. Job position:
4. Working years:
5. own photo of the instrument
6. Forum Account
7. Related achievements in the electronics field (included in eevblog posts, related electronic products created by you, you own blogs, tweets...) All can prove that you possess electronic related ability.
Related product introduction
Appearance:
 

 
Product Description:

     FY6800 series Dual-channel Function / Arbitrary waveform generator is a set of Function Signal Generator, Arbitrary Waveform Generator, Pulse Generator, Analog / Digital modulator, VCO, Sweep, Counters and Frequency Meter and other functions in a high Performance, cost-effective, multi-function signal generator. Abundant shortcut keys and graphical user interface simplifies every operation. Users do not have to spend a lot of time to learn and familiar with the operation of the instrument, you can be skilled use. For education, research and development, production, testing, maintenance and other industries to provide a new choice.
     The instrument adopt the Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) technology and provide stable, precise, pure and low distortion signals. Surface mounting technology improves interference immunity and operational life span. Due to communications with extensive users and fully understanding to users’ practice, we regard users’ demand as the most important factor in R&D. Continuously innovation and listening users’ suggestions, we try to offer customers better products with higher cost performance.

Main Features:
?    Adopt the Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) technology and provide stable, precise, pure and low distortion signals.
?    2.4 inch TFT Color LCD with 320×240 resolution, displaying parameters and graphics of the two channels at the same time.
?    The instrument uses 14-bit high-speed D/A converter chip (5Vpp output quantization error is less than 1mV), 250MSa/s sample rate, 14bits vertical resolution.
?    Can output up to 97 groups of functions / arbitrary waveform, contains 33 groups of preset waveforms and 64 groups of user-defined waveforms. Preset waveforms: Sine, Square (Duty Cycle adjustable), Pulse (Pulse width and cycle time can be set accurately), Triangle/Ramp, CMOS(0~10V), Four channels TTL, Exponential Rise, Exponential Fall, Noise, ECG, DC etc.
?    Enable to store 64 arbitrary waveform data files, each one of waveform storage depth 8192 points * 14bits;
?    Various modulation types: AM, FM, PM, ASK, FSK and PSK modulations.
?    Sweep Function: It can sweep 4 properties of signals including frequency, amplitude, offset and duty cycle; It has Linear and Logarithm two sweep types; 0.01S~999.99S sweep time; Up, Down and roundtrip sweep directions.
?    VCO Function (Voltage Control Output): Can be achieved by an external input signal?  voltage controlling frequency, voltage controlling amplitude, voltage controlling offset, voltage controlling duty cycle and PWM modulations.
?    Burst Output Function: There has Manual Trigger, internal CH2 Trigger, and External Trigger for your options. It can output 1~1048575 pulse trains.
?    100M Frequency meter function: It can measure frequency, period, pulse width and duty cycle. Max. frequency workable is 100MHz and Min. frequency workable is 0.01 Hz.
?    Counter Function: It has 2 coupling measure modes including DC coupling and AC coupling. This design can solve inaccuracy problem of AC coupling.
?    Standard dual full functional channels which are equivalent to two independent generators.
?    Channel SYNC Function: Support waveform copy and state copy between channels.
?    Support two or more signal generators connected to achieve multi-channel output, the maximum support 16-channel synchronous output, the phase between each channel can be adjusted.
?    Precisely adjust the phases of the two channels, Precision can be 0.01°.
?    Minimum amplitude resolution can be up to 1 mV. Amplitude range is 0~20Vpp.
?    Duty-cycle of each channel can be adjusted independently0.01%-99.99%, the adjusting resolution is 0.01%.
?    -10V~+10V DC Offset function. Resolution 0.001V.
?    Save function: It can save 20 sets user-set parameters and can be loaded at anytime.
?    Communicating function: All functions can be controlled by PC program and the communication protocol is open for secondary development.
?    Output short-circuit protection: All channels can work more than 60 seconds when the load is short-circuited.
?    Provide powerful waveform editing PC software. Users can download arbitrary waveform to this instrument after edit through PC program which is included in user CD.
?    Adopt ABS plastic shell with table type design. Use 100-240V (AC) wide range voltage power supply.
?    Can choose our FYA2000S series or FPA1000 series power amplifier to output 20W~100W signal in DC-10MHz width without any distortion.

Technical Specification

Unless specified, all specifications can be guaranteed if the following two conditions are met.
?    The generator has passed self-inspection.
?    The generator has been working continuously for at least 30 minutes    under the specified temperature (18?~28?).

All the specifications are guaranteed unless those marked with “typical”





« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 06:59:51 pm by feeltech »
FeelTech-Professional signal generator and liquid crystal solution
Provide custom development services!
Invites all agents to join us.
 

Offline alpher

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2018, 10:52:45 pm »
I for once would like to know when can I buy one and how much they're going to cost?
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2018, 02:24:31 am »
FeelTech,

It's great that you're taking this opportunity to get the community involved in trying out your upcoming signal generator. However, if you really want to get your equipment in the hands of customers who can tell you what works and what doesn't, you'll find them at http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/ and should probably hire some of them. The work they're doing in that thread is pretty amazing.
You don't acquire TEA. It acquires you.
 

Offline Bob Sava

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2018, 02:34:53 am »
Can FY-6800 firmware be updated by customer or whole unit has to be shipped back to you?
 

Offline ikrase

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2018, 03:53:20 am »
Well looks like the other shoe has dropped. I'm interested in seeing the guts.

I definitely have a use for such a thing, and an application that would put it to the test, but I don't think I have the requirements for this.
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2018, 04:43:09 am »
Compared with users like fremen67 that definitely deserves a free unit, not to mention many others, I did almost nothing except starting the the avalanche a bit.
I still think I deserve my 3.1 firmware unit replaced, along with all the other 3.0/3.1 firmware units.
You have only one threat practically to look into it, but  I have a feeling that will be probably the only Feeltech post, or one of the very few, same like this "Amy" person that started the other thread.
And yes, would have been nice to actually answer my emails, sent long ago.

 Good luck to the winners, personally I will not give my private information for 100EUR, but some others maybe will do it.

 DC1MC
 
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2018, 04:45:00 am »
Buttons sure look nicer.

I sort of hope that it is similar enough to FY6600 that the custom firmware fremen67 is developing can be made to work with little effort.
The only difference in specs I see is "Save function: It can save 20 sets user-set parameters and can be loaded at anytime." and that is purely software.

So if the only real changes are the PSU and buttons, that should be the case.
Even if they improved XO and OpAmp

But the big question is: Is the factory firmware upgrade-able?
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2018, 04:54:27 am »
7. Related achievements in the electronics field (included in eevblog posts, related electronic products created by you, you own blogs, tweets...) All can prove that you possess electronic related ability.

Translation: 'Prove that you are a electronics professional, so we may send you this hobby instrument.....'

LOL. You guys do not understand your target audience do you? At least not the western part (not sure about china internal market I admit)
Just send one to fremen67 already. He already bought two of your devices and is the undisputed leader of the eevblog effort.


Anyway: Not signing up myself. I do not do stuff like twitter and facebook.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 05:32:44 am by cybermaus »
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2018, 05:01:49 am »
FeelTech, here's a link to fremen67's profile, for convenience. You can PM him a message. ;)
You don't acquire TEA. It acquires you.
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2018, 05:02:49 am »
7. Related achievements in the electronics field (included in eevblog posts, related electronic products created by you, you own blogs, tweets...) All can prove that you possess electronic related ability.

Translation: 'Prove that you are a electronics professional, so we may send you this hobby instrument.....'

LOL. You guys do not understand your target audience do you? At least not the western part (not sure about china internal market I admit)
Just send one to fremen67 already. He already bought two of your devices and is the undisputed leader of the eevblog effort.

Yes, just send one to fremen67, don't waste time, a good review from him may convince me to buy a new one and get rid of the old.

 DC1MC
 

Offline jleg

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2018, 06:05:19 am »
I still think I deserve my 3.1 firmware unit replaced, along with all the other 3.0/3.1 firmware units.
You have only one threat practically to look into it, but  I have a feeling that will be probably the only Feeltech post, or one of the very few, same like this "Amy" person that started the other thread.
And yes, would have been nice to actually answer my emails, sent long ago.

Yes, good idea to help potential owners of a FY6800 by praising Feeltech‘s support:
My FY6600-60 with FW3.0 suffered from known firmware-related „becoming a useless brick“ error, shortly after Paypal refund period.  The seller („echoii_mall“) promised to send a replacement when i pay additional shipping fee (which i did), of course i never got a replacement unit.
Contacted Feeltech, they promised to help - i never ever heard back from them. Chapter closed.
 
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Offline spec123

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2018, 06:44:54 am »
On the plus side on new FY6800...
They have fixed the ground problem with new AC power connector.
Front panel buttons and layout look good.. but was happy with old layout and buttons.
SYNC button is gone but there is now VCO button.
Added a new button labeled OK.  What is it for?

On the other side....
All the technical specifications of FY6800 seem to be the same as FY6600.
Frequency stability and accuracy specs seem to be the same.  FY6600 had frequency jitter and stability problems.
Are the output amplifiers the same? Distortion the same? Questions are not addressed.

It seems that this may be a repackaged FY6600 with a corrected AC power connector and new front panel buttons.

Not going to apply for free sample unit and give away all that private info.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2018, 08:13:28 am »
It's only a "Free trial" ?  I think this competition should be in the "Jobs" section.  :)
 
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Offline DaveR

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2018, 11:12:51 am »

It seems that this may be a repackaged FY6600 with a corrected AC power connector and new front panel buttons.

That's probably exactly what the FY6800 is, and now that we've demonstrated that different op amps and XO make a big improvement, they'll be included in the FY6900 model, to be released in August/September.

Any free samples should be given to those who bought the "lemon" versions, to show some goodwill towards previous customers.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 11:19:41 am by DaveR »
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2018, 07:43:29 am »
I still can't define "Free Trial", although with the conditions, I can see why you'd feel like you're On Trial!

Offline brainwash

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2018, 10:34:46 am »
I'm sorry to point the obvious, but, this thread doesn't belong in the 'contest' category. More like "lease in exchange of coming up with marketing material". So it belongs to "jobs", at best, but more accurately in "requesting free stuff", if there is such a topic.

Better to just send some units to the guys that have experience with previous Feeltech products (a few even mentioned above). Just shortcut the entire charade, it doesn't seem to be working that well anyway (2 followers on twitter as of now).
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2018, 12:12:26 pm »
I'm not sure if it is quite that obvious...

I, too, am a bit confused about the "Free Trial" bit in the title.

For this to be in the "Contests" section, I would be expecting the five units on offer to be given to the five winners, for them to keep - but nowhere is this explicitly stated.  Quite the contrary, the use of the word "Trial" indicates that after the review is submitted, they will want the units back.

Choosing the winners as has been described is not unreasonable, nor is the requirement that they provide a review - IMO - but the units would need to be kept by the winners, otherwise this is nothing but a poorly presented 'con' to get reviews.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2018, 02:52:16 pm »
A bit too negative with the comments guys. I am sure the confusion between "free" and "trail" is due to Chinglish, we would not fair much better with lingo reversed. I am not participating myself (no twitter for me, I only follow local police alerts), but let some kids win a free sample and be happy with it. But yes, some acknowledgement for the active other thread (name has already been named) would probably help set a more positive tone to Freetech's own advantage.
 

Offline spec123

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2018, 11:48:10 pm »
Free units or not, Feeltech is getting a lot of free publicity from this little sales campaign.

Those of us with older FY6600 units have an obligation to point out the problems for new buyers. Many older units failed prematurely. The original design had flaws, like failing to provide AC mains grounding. And there are others.

But, perhaps, worst of all is the lack of customer support. Many of us have contacted customer support without getting response. Or, they claim you do not know how to operate the unit. IMHO they actually understand the problem or question but fail to address it.

New buyers should be aware of these things. As for me, my unit is finally working good, thanks to the help from this group. But everyone cannot solder these tiny ICs and could end up stuck with a poor unit. In my case, I am not signing up for this promotion. I do not like the way it is presented. And, I shudder to think about how it would be to deal with  these guys.

 
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Offline Rasz

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2018, 01:48:27 am »
Free Trial, just like 6600 model was recalled, aka they stopped responding to customers with bad units.

My FY6600-60 with FW3.0 suffered from known firmware-related „becoming a useless brick“ error, shortly after Paypal refund period.  The seller („echoii_mall“) promised to send a replacement when i pay additional shipping fee (which i did), of course i never got a replacement unit.
Contacted Feeltech, they promised to help - i never ever heard back from them. Chapter closed.

dont squander the opportunity to repeat this great user experience by buying 6800 model now!!1
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Offline SMB784

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2018, 02:00:08 am »
If FeelTech is indeed reading this thread, listen up.

You have a PR disaster on your hands.  Two entire software revisions of your devices were defective; one of which resulted in bricked units which either you or your distributors refused to repair or replace.

Your customers are hobbyists and talented engineers.  You took their money, and left them with a broken device.  You have given them no options except one: take your broken equipment that you stuck them with and make it work again.  The result of this is that they have reverse engineered your entire device lineup for this model series.  They have no reason to buy another one, because they have already made yours better, and have published the inner workings, schematics, and detailed information on how to modify these devices online.

If you want to mitigate this disaster, you need to act immediately: send everyone whom you sold defective 3.0 and 3.1 units a working device (revision 3.2 seems to work ok so far, I suggest you start here).  Your new device that you are pushing on us isn't better than the ones that have already been modified.  Your new device is DOA if you don't fix this.  It may already be too late.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 02:17:19 am by SMB784 »
"Anything will lase if you hit it hard enough."

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Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2018, 02:23:20 am »
It can be even simpler: just release the 3.2 firmware as a up-loadable file. 90% or better of the user community here on eevblog will next fix their own devices without additional cost to Feeltech *and* the device has potential to become popular if mistakes can be fixed and it can be played with


Also, my note above toward negativity was on complaining over the wording whether this was a contest and how they mix up words for free and trail.  Not worth it.
The bad firmware remarks are very much to the point. Note that I asked about upgrade able firmware earlier in this thread. Those are the valid complaints


 

Offline ikrase

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2018, 03:16:10 am »
Oh yikes. I guess that definitely establishes a difference between the Feeltech and JDS units

 

Offline Brumby

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2018, 12:39:10 pm »
Also, my note above toward negativity was on complaining over the wording whether this was a contest and how they mix up words for free and trail.  Not worth it.
I disagree.

If it was an item to keep, then it has appeal and I would consider entering.  If I'm just being loaned a unit for the purpose of giving a review, then they can go jump.

Whether the unit is any good or not seems to have been buried under a cloud of prior experience.  That is a separate issue - but it seems to be the overriding one.
 

Offline Fire Doger

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2018, 01:07:38 pm »
It can be even simpler: just release the 3.2 firmware as a up-loadable file.
If they release the file then other manufacturers will replicate the unit veeery fast. If it was an obsolete model then loss would be small but their new model its the same with rubber buttons and new psu (according to specs)...
Of course they could implement an encryption and decryption on bootloader but that's should be done on a newer model with pre-programmed bootloader, idk if they have done in 6800 but I am sure they are not gonna release anything for 6600.

The positive is that we will have a better enclosure for the opensource software ;D
 

Offline alpher

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2018, 02:00:29 pm »
Not to be an ass here, but how much is a 15MHz AWG from let's say HP/Agilent or whatever their name is now?
How much doest it cost from TEK or keithey or whatever stupid name they adopt now ?
Give, those guys some slack, ~100 bucks versus several thousands, common.
 

Offline SMB784

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2018, 03:35:54 pm »
Not to be an ass here, but how much is a 15MHz AWG from let's say HP/Agilent or whatever their name is now?
How much doest it cost from TEK or keithey or whatever stupid name they adopt now ?
Give, those guys some slack, ~100 bucks versus several thousands, common.

Why should we give them slack when they sold us something broken and refused to replace it? Is my $100 worthless?

When they fix their mistake I will consider cutting them slack.
"Anything will lase if you hit it hard enough."

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Online Adrian_Arg.

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2018, 06:13:41 am »
I offer myself, I do not meet the requirements of engineer but I can prove them, and so we were on hand with the 6600 that never replenished me, it worked 45 days, suddenly started to go out, I end up in the trash can. So if any firm wants to donate one for testing, welcome it.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2018, 05:24:12 am »
Not to be an ass here, but how much is a 15MHz AWG from let's say HP/Agilent or whatever their name is now?
How much doest it cost from TEK or keithey or whatever stupid name they adopt now ?
Give, those guys some slack, ~100 bucks versus several thousands, common.
A $100 device that breaks down is as worthless as a $1000 dollar device that breaks down. They're both trash.
 

Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2018, 10:24:30 am »
I sent a PM about my V 3.0 FY-6600.  More "we fix for free".  When I asked for details about how to arrange that. feeltech got *very* quiet. just as back in December.
 

Offline ikrase

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2018, 10:53:02 am »
Other than telling everybody, is there a way to put pressure on them?
 

Offline Mozee

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2018, 04:00:25 am »
Where can we buy this unit? what is it's price?
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Offline Rasz

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2018, 04:37:24 pm »
Where can we buy this unit? what is it's price?

you can buy one from rhb, really cheap too
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Offline Calambres

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2018, 03:19:09 am »
I've got a Feeltech FY3224S for two years.

No problems so far but with the absolute the lack of customer support from this company, I'll never buy anything from them again!

Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2018, 06:34:24 am »
FWIW I sent feeltech a PM laying out what I plan to do if they don't fix all the forum members' units.  I gave them until Friday of next week to start a thread informing members how to get an acceptable repair at no cost to the owner.  So no "Here's a new chip, have fun soldering."

Otherwise I shall start a thread which will be *very* bad for US and EU sales.
 

Offline ikrase

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2018, 03:36:40 pm »
I just bought a JDS6600.
 

Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2018, 11:46:38 pm »
The question has been raised more than once as to what to do about the failure to fix defective units.    Probably most people who are aware of the FY6600 are also aware of the PS issue.  But no one seems to have connected the dots.

There are health and safety regulations in place worldwide regarding the requirements for power supplies.    A good summary is here:

https://www.cui.com/catalog/resource/power-supply-safety-standards-agencies-and-marks.pdf

Quote

The ability to sell power supplies, either built-in or external types, around the world depends on meeting the relevant safety standards that apply in those territories. These standards are defined and administered by national or international agencies with various government-recognized testing laboratories able to certify compliance with such statutory regulations


Has anyone seen any reference to the approvals required to sell the Feeltech products in the US or EU?  Does anyone think that they have gotten such approvals?

The sale of Feeltech's products in the US and EU are only possible because customs and the regulatory agencies are unaware of what is being done.  It's also part of the reason that no established T & M vendors carry the units along with the obviously bad customer support track record.

Alerting the US and EU trade regulators to the issue won't force Feeltech to fix defective units, but it will seriously impede their sales and protect other users from their products.  All it takes to make that happen is for a number of formal complaints to be made to the appropriate agency.
 

Offline Mozee

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2018, 04:34:52 am »
Where can we buy this unit? what is it's price?

you can buy one from rhb, really cheap too
What is RHB?



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Offline TechieTX

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2018, 01:22:49 pm »
Control-F is a wonderful thing.  RHB is a WHO, not a WHAT.  His is the post just above yours.   ;)

What really boggles imagination is that everything they've built up to this point needed a firmware upload at the factory in CHINA: no soft update.  Dudes, REALLY?

Around about 1990 a team of 3 people made a breakthrough emulator for a microcontroller... it was TINY compared to the other beasts on the market, around the size of a bar of soap.  One of the initial design considerations was 'soft updates', so we figured out how to make that work.  We had twice the Flash capacity that the firmware + FPGA needed so that we could fall back gracefully in case of a corrupted upload.  Overkill, but still handy.  We pretty much invented the whole 'soft update' thing from scratch 'cos nobody had documented such a thing, other than a few hints in EDN and Embedded Systems Programming mags.  One of the first units went to the Philips apps engineer, and he found a bug the first week.  He described an error that had to be in the FPGA. I pulled up the schematic, saw that I'd forgotten to invert one unusual state of one pin, and I told him I'd call him back.  I recompiled the FPGA, uploaded it and tested it, and it was good.  The hardest thing long ago was getting the update file to him.  I had to FTP it to a server Philips had (using my X.25 dialup account - not much Internet in 1990) as the hex file was too big for my neolithic email.  ~30 minutes after the 'customer' called with a problem, he had the fix in hand and was off working again.  Even though I'd screwed up, it proved that 'soft update' was great for keeping the customers happy.

28 years later, Feeltech is just now figuring out that 'soft update' is a Good Thing.  Jeebus Crisco, I feel like half of my life has been an utter waste.
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Offline Brumby

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2018, 02:27:02 pm »
Some people just like to find out for themselves that a circular object with an axle going through the middle might be useful for moving stuff around ... so they can then reinvent it.
 

Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2018, 03:28:05 pm »
It really comes down to they are Chinese entrepreneurs who steal from others, so they expect others to steal from them.

The really silly part is the requirement of proof of professional employment in electronics to be eligible for their promotion.  While the performance of a *working* unit is quite good, it is not a professional grade instrument and they are not capable of producing one. 

Keysight, Tektronix et al provide customer support.  If the instrument has a problem they fix it.  They charge for it.  If you provide no support, then all you have is competing on price on eBay. You can't even go to market in legitimate venues.  None of the major test equipment resellers carry FeelTech.  For very good reasons, demonstrated very effectively in this forum.

If FeelTech had any brains they would realize that a modest expense for customer support would move them from eBay to TEquipment.net at better profit margins.

I bought 10 BNC jumpers on eBay.  They  make great 50 MHz notch filters because the manufacturer twisted the shield and soldered it to a clamp on connector at a single point.  I am getting very tired of Chinese junk.  They do make good stuff in China, but only under watchful Western eyes.
 
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2018, 04:41:33 pm »
Of course, one of the many flaws is that the 'quality' of person they're asking for will already have a (better) FG.

This 'promotion' must have reduced sales quite a bit.  :palm:

From the 1st post  https://twitter.com/feelelec  is worth a look.

This is the only mention of it I've seen. https://twitter.com/scargill/status/975706864838172673
 :palm:

Offline Mozee

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2018, 07:34:04 pm »
Hmmm ... So where can one buy one of these feeltechs ??? Any authentic seller out there?
how much is it for too?
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Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2018, 10:34:02 pm »
Hmmm ... So where can one buy one of these feeltechs ??? Any authentic seller out there?
how much is it for too?

You *might* get better support for a counterfeit.  You certainly won't get worse support.  I think this is more on the order of "We're looking for people to test our products for us."  Do you *really* want to buy a $100+ paperweight?
 

Offline Mozee

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2018, 05:36:18 pm »
I think I would give it a try  ???, For something on the order of about 150$ and these spects, Why not?
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2018, 11:19:35 am »
I think I would give it a try  ???, For something on the order of about 150$ and these spects, Why not?
A device is only useful if it actually works and keeps working. This manufacturer is currently experiencing some reliability issues and not offering a lot of support.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 11:21:20 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline Philipp F.

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2018, 01:38:25 am »
Great,

after reading about the original unit a few months ago I just bought it despite the problems, I badly needed a low priced function gen, came with firmware 3.2.1.
And now this....  :palm:
Guess it will be going back, I can wait a little longer.

Any info on pricing and when it will be available?
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Offline ikrase

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2018, 05:20:51 am »
Get a JDS6600.
 

Offline Mozee

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2018, 05:46:37 am »
Get a JDS6600.
What do you think makes it a better option?



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Offline peteb2

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2018, 10:35:50 am »
Thanks to all who have posted, glad i came here and saved myself some $.... I have an 80s era Philips 5133 Function Generator which looks as if its hardly been used and works, good enough for home Lab-time anyway...

I'd faint thoughts of it being handy to do higher frequencies and all those special arbitrary test signals but for now i think i will give it a miss and save for something a bit more reliable.  Those somewhat garish front panel colours for me would be a bit hard to live with anyway....
 

Offline ikrase

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2018, 10:44:31 am »
Allegedly better support, nicer buttons, less power supply trouble
 

Offline lululu

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2018, 04:59:52 am »
So as far as I can see it, the FY6800 can now be purchased regularly. But the company changed its name from "Feeltech" to "FeelElec"??

Now what puzzles me a bit is that I find the FY6800 under several different brands. On Ebay I find it branded as "FeelElec", on Aliexpress you find it as "KMOON", "ZEAST" and "haoba". Are these all the same thing just shipped with a different front sticker? Or are some of these clones of the Feeltech one?

Also, I read many people had problems and even bricked their device running firmware v3.1 and earlier; so I contacted some seller of a "FeelElec FY6800" on Ebay and asked for the precise firmware version of the devices they are shipping and they told me today their firmware version was v1.6!? So are they using a new versioning scheme on this model or what?

About the output amp of the FY6800, does it work reliably on very low impedance? For instance I currently have to modulate a circuit with only 1 Ohm impedance and I wonder if I would blow up the FY6800's output amp with that circuit. I mean I see they are writing in their specs the device would run even short circuited for 60s, any real life confirmation on this one?
 

Offline brainwash

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2018, 10:21:50 am »
To answer the first question, at least KKMOON is a distributor and sometimes rebadges the products. I think I got my old model from them since they fulfill Amazon (DE) orders, avoiding a time-consuming and perhaps costly trip to the customs' authority.
My old model (FY*24*) could drive 4 Ohms (speaker) loads without complaining too. For what I do, though, a 50 Ohm BNC terminator does the job. Not sure why the need for 1-Ohm loads, that's subwoofer-amplifier range.
 

Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2018, 11:28:09 am »
Allegedly better support, nicer buttons, less power supply trouble

12 days after supplying shipping addresses (PO Box and street)  for a replacement FP board I got an email saying the addresses were incorrect.  They were not.  No explanation of why they thought that, but now they also wanted a contact number.   I'll believe they have better support when I see evidence of it.

FWIW I got so tired of dealing with it, I bought a Keysight 33622A from their eBay store.

I did *not* brick my V3.1 device.  It still works although the settings are all screwed up and the screen trashed.  It worked fine when I completed the PSU fix and ran it for a couple of hours.  I turned it off and went to bed.  The next morning when I powered it up it borked itself.  That was in November-December of last year.  Despite many efforts I am still waiting as are others.

Until they actually start delivering on customer support, I suggest avoiding like the plague.
 

Offline lululu

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2018, 10:15:44 am »
To answer the first question, at least KKMOON is a distributor and sometimes rebadges the products. I think I got my old model from them since they fulfill Amazon (DE) orders, avoiding a time-consuming and perhaps costly trip to the customs' authority.
My old model (FY*24*) could drive 4 Ohms (speaker) loads without complaining too.

Sounds good! Thanks! I'll give it a try and will purchase one from the east (~25 days delivery it seems). Right now I don't see anybody selling the FY6800 nearby unfortunately.

For what I do, though, a 50 Ohm BNC terminator does the job. Not sure why the need for 1-Ohm loads, that's subwoofer-amplifier range.

Yeah not very common I know; that's a tube amp which I currently have to debug and repair which has a somewhat odd design. It has a coil with only 1 Ohm at the heart of its signal routing (between preamp and power amp section). But ... who cares about internal design details when it sounds great, period.


FWIW I got so tired of dealing with it, I bought a Keysight 33622A from their eBay store.

Mja, considering the price difference I rather give the FY6800 a try. I don't need a signal generator that often. And besides, my oscilloscope is also an Asian one which many people were complaining about, but it is running fine for me for more than 10 years without any issues so far. *fingers crossed*

I just hope the FY6800's PSU won't cause any serious signal noise issue. We will see.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2018, 07:09:36 pm »
I just hope the FY6800's PSU won't cause any serious signal noise issue. We will see.

Well, if you are really running it at 1 Ohm, I think you should more worry about distortions from the drive-OpAmp than from the PSU. You are running it massively out of spec, it's anyone's guess what the waveform will do.

Maybe you should consider this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/121799023133
Not sure how good it is, but at least it is spec'ed >=1 Ohm
(its a special variant of that model, build for low impedance)

Or at the very least use this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/132112656266
Still out of spec, but a bit more in the direction you are thinking of using it.

 

Offline lululu

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2018, 11:23:24 pm »
Well, if you are really running it at 1 Ohm, I think you should more worry about distortions from the drive-OpAmp than from the PSU. You are running it massively out of spec, it's anyone's guess what the waveform will do.

Well, I was actually just referring to the DC resistance of that circuit, at 1kHz it's rather ~10 Ohm. However in the meantime I actually "tested" the FY6800 accidentally also short circuited. Still alive and working well. ;)

Question: is it normal for function generators that the secondary circuit's (output) ground is always connected with primary (net) ground? At least that's the case with the FY6800, so in practice I often have to take care of polarity with the FY6800 when doing some quick circuit hacks. For me that's a bit inconvenient. For my uses it would be handy to rather have the output voltage completely separated.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2018, 01:50:47 am »
Question: is it normal for function generators that the secondary circuit's (output) ground is always connected with primary (net) ground? At least that's the case with the FY6800, so in practice I often have to take care of polarity with the FY6800 when doing some quick circuit hacks. For me that's a bit inconvenient. For my uses it would be handy to rather have the output voltage completely separated.

I am not an owner of a large array of generators, nor a true expert.

But while researching how to get rid of the floating voltage of the FY6600, I did read on a FAQ from I think Siglent that they normally have the two connected by a high value resistor to avoid this. As I was considering the same, I saw confirmation of my plans in that.
And from that I would also infer that no, apparently Siglent (was it Siglent, nor sure anymore) does not think it normal or wise to connect the two.

So if the FY6800 indeed has a zero ohm connection between earth (and thus neutral) and signal ground, then FeelTech was not paying as much attention to this forum as we hoped they were.


Unlike Scopes of course, where the two are always connected, see the "how to (not) blow up your scope" video from Dave.

Edit: can't find the exact FAQ anymore, but this one is nearly as good:
https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=OM&lc=eng&ckey=356756&nid=-11143.0.00&id=356756
 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 02:06:44 am by cybermaus »
 

Offline precaud

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2018, 02:10:25 am »
Question: is it normal for function generators that the secondary circuit's (output) ground is always connected with primary (net) ground?

Not just for function generators. It is quite common (pun intended) for devices with unbalanced outputs to have circuit ground and earth ground bonded at the outputs.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2018, 03:07:21 am »
The older 3200 series also has all its commons tied together. The front panel even shows that they all go to ground. Measuring, I get about 2.2 ohms between the BNC shields.
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Offline Mozee

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2018, 06:01:36 am »
So how to overcome this? Adding a big value resistor between gnd and the mains gnd


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Online rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2018, 07:39:01 am »
If you have an FY-6800 would you please post a set of teardown photos?  Front and back of all boards, case panels, etc.  I'm curious what has changed from the FY-6600 besides the power connector.
 

Offline precaud

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Re: FeelTech FY6800 Signal Generator Free Trial
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2018, 10:56:43 pm »
Here are some pics of the FY6800 boards.
 


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