Author Topic: 3d Pocketcopter  (Read 5082 times)

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Offline macgyver0815

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3d Pocketcopter
« on: September 21, 2014, 12:10:14 am »
Saw this today:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/3d-pocketcopter-the-flying-camera

2 "Software / Web / Marketing guys" and 1 "micro electrician" want to create a coaxial copter with a 3D camera - pocket sized 19 x 4.5cm.
Wifi / Bluetooth
12V Battery (=min. 3 cells)! 
25min flight time.
Water resistant
Cost 89 Euro.

NO real development done yet, only some renderings.
Want to deliver May 2015.

I'd say very unrealistic, what do you think?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 12:12:22 am by macgyver0815 »
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 02:10:57 am »
I am only sorry for the fools that gave these guys 110k already.

They will most likely never see neither the copter nor the money. No engineering experience in the team, the device should have flight time of 25 minutes, but there is no specified mass - in no way could they fit a meaningful battery, motor, gearbox, radios and a camera into a pen-sized form factor. Even a thick marker would be extremely difficult if not impossible.

I do wonder how they want to steer the thing, the computer rendered images show only two coaxial rotors, with no swash plate assembly on neither of the rotors.

If this is not outright scam, these guys have absolutely no idea how to manufacture something like that. But they got 110k EUR for it already!.

BTW, the video interview in the campaign is completely unrelated (they claim it as inspiration). It is from German TV, they guy is Prof. Rechenberg (TU Berlin), he doesn't have anything to do with this project. I wonder whether they got permission to use the video for their commercial pitch.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 02:15:31 am by janoc »
 

Offline macgyver0815

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2014, 04:54:30 am »
BTW, the video interview in the campaign is completely unrelated (they claim it as inspiration). It is from German TV, they guy is Prof. Rechenberg (TU Berlin), he doesn't have anything to do with this project. I wonder whether they got permission to use the video for their commercial pitch.

I am pretty sure they did NOT ask for permission.
That TV show aired beginning of this year - not much time for newbies to work out such an idea in their spare time  :-BROKE

 

Offline Whales

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 07:55:41 am »
Those blades have a uniform cross-section and no tilt....
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2014, 06:35:25 am »
Those blades have a uniform cross-section and no tilt....

Yeah, they are perfectly flat, so that certainly wouldn't fly. But as it was an "artistic impression" of the product, not CAD, I was willing to let that slide. The lack of any steering mechanism is a significant issue, though.

 

Offline sunnyhighway

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2014, 08:00:31 am »
I do wonder how they want to steer the thing, the computer rendered images show only two coaxial rotors, with no swash plate assembly on neither of the rotors.

I guess they will be using CoG (Center of Gravity) steering.

Here is some good reading about CoG steering on Coaxial Helicopters:

http://www.dei.unipd.it/~emg/downloads/SIMPAR08-nuovo/MiniAndMicroUAV/Bermes.pdf
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2014, 08:05:57 am »
I guess they will be using CoG (Center of Gravity) steering.

They won't get the thing (well, assuming they will actually try to build anything) off the ground unless they'll be using magical fairy dust as well.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2014, 01:04:56 am »

I guess they will be using CoG (Center of Gravity) steering.

Here is some good reading about CoG steering on Coaxial Helicopters:

http://www.dei.unipd.it/~emg/downloads/SIMPAR08-nuovo/MiniAndMicroUAV/Bermes.pdf

Right, but that requires some significant moving mass that is off-axis from the main rotor(s). There isn't much space (if any) for that in the pen-sized tube they are showing.

 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 01:26:00 am »

I guess they will be using CoG (Center of Gravity) steering.

Here is some good reading about CoG steering on Coaxial Helicopters:

http://www.dei.unipd.it/~emg/downloads/SIMPAR08-nuovo/MiniAndMicroUAV/Bermes.pdf

Right, but that requires some significant moving mass that is off-axis from the main rotor(s). There isn't much space (if any) for that in the pen-sized tube they are showing.

BTW - While it might be pen-shaped, it's certainly not pen-sized.  Reading through the comments, that tube is actually 5cm x 20cm...it's pretty damn big.
 

Offline Dongulus

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2014, 01:51:46 am »
The particular design that this project seems to have been inspired by appears at the 6' minute mark of the German interview video. The pilot looks to have decent control of the steering. Does anyone have any speculation on how the steering on the German design works?
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2014, 06:21:51 am »
The particular design that this project seems to have been inspired by appears at the 6' minute mark of the German interview video. The pilot looks to have decent control of the steering. Does anyone have any speculation on how the steering on the German design works?

By employing a proper (although simplified to cyclic control only) swashplate assembly on the lower rotor.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 06:26:01 am by Zbig »
 

Offline electr_peter

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 04:16:46 am »
12V Battery (=min. 3 cells)!
Small RC aircraft usually don't use 3 or more cells - there is little the point if those small cells cannot provide any current for motors.

25min flight time.
Yeah, right.
See examples in RC hobby market - only bigger quadcopters(with wide props) or RC planes with big wings and huge batteries could have such fligh time.

There are multiple other reasons why you would like to choose bigger multicopters or RC planes for aerial video/photo/FPV and not small helicopters.

Quote from: Indiegogo campaign text
Previous tests showed that the running time of a fully charged battery is about 6 hours (camera) and 25 min flight time.
Show some test results then. What exactly and how it was tested?

2 "Software / Web / Marketing guys" and 1 "micro electrician" want to create a coaxial copter with a 3D camera - pocket sized 19 x 4.5cm.
Wifi / Bluetooth
...
Water resistant
Cost 89 Euro.
NO real development done yet, only some renderings.
Want to deliver May 2015.
Campaign could add more features for this flashy project. Add solar panels in blades for a good measure ;D
Additional features will not likely have any effect on implementation and delivery...

I'd say very unrealistic, what do you think?
I agree 100%, there is no chance they will pull this off.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 04:20:45 am by electr_peter »
 

Offline macgyver0815

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 06:09:24 am »
Add solar panels in blades for a good measure ;D

Solar frigg'n bladezz!
 O0
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2014, 07:17:59 am »

BTW - While it might be pen-shaped, it's certainly not pen-sized.  Reading through the comments, that tube is actually 5cm x 20cm...it's pretty damn big.

OK, I didn't go through the comments. The size certainly wasn't clear from the project description!

On the other hand, even 5cm diameter is not all that much - if there was to be some sort of moving mass for steering in there, then most of that tube would be taken up by that mechanism. And where do they put the electronics, camera, radios, battery, etc?

I think that these guys have absolutely no idea how to build a helicopter like that and are in way over their heads.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 07:21:35 am by janoc »
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: 3d Pocketcopter
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2014, 09:59:36 am »
Saw this today:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/3d-pocketcopter-the-flying-camera

2 "Software / Web / Marketing guys" and 1 "micro electrician" want to create a coaxial copter with a 3D camera - pocket sized 19 x 4.5cm.
Wifi / Bluetooth
12V Battery (=min. 3 cells)! 
25min flight time.
Water resistant
Cost 89 Euro.

NO real development done yet, only some renderings.
Want to deliver May 2015.

I'd say very unrealistic, what do you think?

Buy a DJI Phantom with FPV and buy a really big pocket?
 


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