Author Topic: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1  (Read 8457 times)

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Online Smallsmt

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cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« on: December 15, 2016, 10:21:35 am »
http://nextd1.com/
It's a multi material printer having 20x20x20cm build space and can use up to 6 materials in one job!
 

Offline edavid

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2016, 11:17:51 am »
It costs 2800 euro.
 

Offline purfield

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2016, 12:41:13 pm »
Hope these guys have their IP sorted out, because it seems like they're tiptoeing through a patent minefield.  Also, I'm a little skeptical about a few guys in a makerspace building their own 200 nozzle inkjet head.  What am I missing?
 

Offline casinada

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 01:33:54 am »
Too expensive.....
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dobot/dobot-m1-pro-robotic-arm-for-makers-and-businesses/description
still too expensive....
It won't sell in big quantities at those prices.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 01:36:03 am by casinada »
 

Offline janekm

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 03:25:31 am »
I think it's very interesting. It's already hit its (fairly low) target.
It's doing quite a few new things compared to the common low-cost 3D printers (inkjet-style print nozzle, laser curing, 6 materials, conductive material, dissolvable support) which could, if all goes well, make it a much more useful device than most other 3D printers.

I also don't see any obvious warning signs that they don't know what they're doing or have unrealistic manufacturing expectations (well, the price is fairly low for what's involved, but not completely crazy). One of the prototype pictures shows what looks like a tray of their nozzles, which is probably the hardest component to achieve.
 

Online Smallsmt

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Offline rob77

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2016, 10:42:14 am »
Hope these guys have their IP sorted out, because it seems like they're tiptoeing through a patent minefield.  Also, I'm a little skeptical about a few guys in a makerspace building their own 200 nozzle inkjet head.  What am I missing?

no worries you're not missing anything ;) apparently they're missing something, and it will bite them badly.... i think it's a yet another case of a few overly enthusiastic makers who started a project beyond their capabilities.

making a 200 nozzle piezo print-head would require some serious manufacturing technology and complex manufacturing processes... i would say the complexity of manufacturing that head is on par with manufacturing your own hi resolution LCD displays.. such a print head is simply beyond the possibilities of any startup or crowdfunding project.

furthermore in their video they "printed" a shape which is not possible without supports using a UV cured resin sprayed from above.... (but is possible with FDM or UV cured resin print where you pull the object form a pond of resin).  i'm talking about 1:44 in their kickstarter video - they fake the printing action there. if you look better the "printout" is already there they just raise the "print head" to reveal the "printed product".. and exactly that shape is not possible without supports with their printing technique - you simply can't print overhangs without support when spraying liquid from above and curing it afterwards.
 

Offline synvox

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 09:08:37 pm »
Actually even the 2nd video of the printing process (in their Kickstarter-Update #2), which they posted on request of many increasingly sceptic backers, they clearly faked that too. When you watch it, it's so obvious that they're not actually printing the object but just moving the x and y a bit and slowly lifting the head to reveal an already printed object (probably on a real PolyJet) behind the print head. Even with the video being a timelapse of the process one can clearly see that the z is moving up too fast compared to the movement of x and y (i downloaded the video and analysed it frame by frame). In some frames in the video one can see the reflection of the operator on the glossy surface (of the printer) moving, which then reveals that they have indeed choosen a very short timelapse interval (or even no real timelapse but just speed up the video after recording).
Then there is absolutely no sign of any UV or blue light reflecting off the object and off the build surface or at least being visible scattering through the translucent support material, which should absolutely be visible given the light intensity needed for the process, even if they use a laser. That should be absolutely obvious, when you look at videos from the printing process on a real PolyJet and even SLA-Printers with Lasers. There is only the light of a rather faint blue LED lighting their Logo on the build head from behind. There are so many things wrong and stupidly faked in their video, that i can't even cover them all here.

I'm a backer of their Kickstarter too, but if they don't get their act together and show that they indeed have a working prototype, i'm going to cancel my pledge. Sadly by now i'm actually not very positive that they will be able to show anything convincing.

Regards
Neni
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 09:12:32 pm by synvox »
 

Online donotdespisethesnake

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2017, 02:37:35 am »
It looks a bit dodgy to me. I would wait a year to see if they can deliver something that works reliably. €2800 is a lot to pay for something that nearly works.

If they don't get sued by Stratasys I will be surprised!
Bob
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Offline purfield

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2017, 05:35:19 am »
The backers in the Kickstarter comments are getting suspicious.  Apparently nobody has actually seen the printer in operation, and there are now claims that videos of the printer working are faked.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 07:13:38 pm »
Yeah, someone has turned up in the comments and pointed out that one of samples they show is their own copyrighted design and not available for download, and only available for purchase as a printed object from Shapeways.  Similarly one of the other samples is also only available via Shapeways.

So far I don't think there is an independent report of anyone seeing it actually print.
This really doesn't look good for them!   :popcorn:

Quote
Bathsheba Grossman 2 days ago

I'm posting here to repeat a comment which I made on the most recent update, because I think it may be important to some backers. I believe that this campaign has either copied a copyrighted artwork, or presented as coming from their machine a part which they did not print.
------------
In the first photo [in that update], the colored part shown on the right is this design:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/VLVPULJKM/the-code-prize-fire-colour
I created this, and its STL file is not released. (Its use is restricted by my contract with the BBC, which commissioned the design.) It is however available for sale on Shapeways, and I see that one was sold recently, with a ship date of January 6.

Did you buy this part from Shapeways? Or did you reverse engineer my copyrighted artwork to create this print yourself?

The black-and-rainbow egg on the left is this design:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/WYJFR5ZY4/mosaic-egg-5
which is likewise not available for download.
------------
 

Offline synvox

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 05:08:34 am »
Yes, and by now there's even more evidence that this campaign is a scam. Actually it's almost a fact by now that they intentionally lied to and deceived their backers.

I (like some others too) cancelled my pledge for a printer and just pledged 1 € to be able to participate in the discussion 'til the end. I also reported this campaign to Kickstarter under the "false claims" category and many other backers did it similarly. It remains to be seen if Kickstarter actually will do something about it.

Btw. as a backer i'm "Nenad Milosevic" (for the people who read the comments there too and possibly want to know who posted what).

Best regards
Neni
 

Offline Kean

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2017, 07:41:50 am »
Yeah, I'm a $1 backer there too - purely to get updats or suspension alerts  >:D
I also reported the campaign, but for "Misrepresentative support" because Kickstarter have a rule against shills or people involved in the campaign pledging toward it, and this co-founder/investor guy has admitted to pledging for 2 printers in the comments.
Will be interesting to see how Kickstarter react.  A few of us here managed to shut down another campaign yesterday by reporting it - see http://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/is-this-one-to-cheap-usb-protector/
 

Offline newbadboy

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 06:17:08 pm »
WTF is going on Kean.

Soon it's only shitty campaigns left and nobody will try to start up real ones nor pay pay pledges. :(
 

Offline concernedbacker324

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2017, 01:58:30 am »
Someone please share this back to the Kickstarter comments https://justpaste.it/12pu0

Also try to reach out to backers tell them to go read the comments
 

Offline synvox

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2017, 05:18:29 am »
Hello concernedbacker324,

i just did that.

And i have to pass the thanks of the Kickstarter backers to the person, who made the abstract:
Quote
@Synvox, please pass on our thanks to whoever wrote that - fantastic effort pulling out all the relevant comments.

If it's you, you deserve all the credits  :), very well done  :-+ .

Best regards
Neni
 
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Offline Kean

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2017, 04:29:13 pm »
And suspended!  Some last ditch efforts by the creators just didn't stand up to the backers scrutiny (& KS I guesss).

The KS suspension notification indicates that ND are weldome to re-submit, but a suspension is just such a big black mark against them I think they've screwed themselves.  They should have cancelled earlier when things turned sour, refined their prototypes, regrouped and showed real demos, and then relaunched.  And I reckon they had a good chance to get a couple of million Euro, as this would be fantastic for the price.  Of course there would be push back due to the very suspicious sample prints (from Shapeways) and poor communication and videos, but they probably could have overcome that with decent marketing and some actual proof via live demos.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Offline synvox

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2017, 10:23:49 am »
I think, 3dprint.com has actually made the best writeup and media coverage of the things that happened with the NexD1 campaign:
https://3dprint.com/162920/nexd1-campaign-suspended/

Btw. they not only posted a picture of my frame analysis of the last video of the NexD1 'printing' process but also the link to the small HTML and Javascript Page that i set up, showing 5 frames in a row from one swipe of the print head, where one can clearly see the impossible supportless bridging (at least with the claimed technology). Clicking on Frame 1 and Frame 5 subsequently shows it most obviously. -> The Frame Buttons are below the image at the left side.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38380100/index.html

Best regards
Neni
 
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Offline Lawlessssor

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2017, 12:55:00 pm »
Think of how I feel....

I launched our Kickstarter campaign for our L2S printer, our company is CALT Dynamics

Literally a few days later Next Dynamics launches their scam

They were funded pretty quickly while our legit printer barely saw the light of day beside their media frenzy

I feel bad for the people who backed them

 

Offline janekm

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2017, 03:25:39 pm »
Think of how I feel....

I launched our Kickstarter campaign for our L2S printer, our company is CALT Dynamics

Literally a few days later Next Dynamics launches their scam

They were funded pretty quickly while our legit printer barely saw the light of day beside their media frenzy

I feel bad for the people who backed them

To be honest I doubt the Next Dynamics campaign had that much impact on yours... From what I've seen Kickstarter mostly works well for very "polished" campaigns that appeal to the core audience of Kickstarter members with too much disposable income, who like to buy flashy toys. Your printer might have real appeal in industry (though your video didn't really sell me on the advantages, I think you went a bit too quickly into niggling details while barely even mentioning what type of printer it is, and for whom it is useful and why), but it doesn't really have that "toy appeal".
 

Offline Lawlessssor

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Re: cool new 3d printer project on kickstarter nextd1
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2017, 11:36:33 pm »
I agree, I don't think their campaign had any effect either.we missed the target.

 I'm just pointing out that it's getting more difficult to launch a project because expectations are so high.

If next Dynamics actually had examples of their machine they would need to have significant funding already
 


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