Author Topic: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light  (Read 11079 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28128
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« on: July 20, 2016, 06:49:56 pm »
My mate Doug Ford who many of you will have seen on the blog has an Indiegogo, check it out:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/plantilium-phg-150-led-grow-light--3#/

Because it's Doug you know it's going to be good.
 
The following users thanked this post: jancumps

Offline sleemanj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2246
  • Country: nz
  • Professional tightwad.
    • The electronics hobby components I sell.
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 08:21:57 pm »
Flexible funding.

* sleemanj raises one eyebrow
~~~
EEVBlog Members - get yourself 10% discount off all my electronic components for sale just use the Buy Direct links and use Coupon Code "eevblog" during checkout.  Shipping from New Zealand, international orders welcome :-)
 
The following users thanked this post: bitwelder, Towger, Kilrah

Offline elgonzo

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
  • Country: 00
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 09:11:06 pm »
Indiegogo, flexible goal...?
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1126
  • Country: no
  • Cut me some slack, I'm a biochemist!
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 09:49:43 pm »
And $599 USD for one bulb! Smells like growphoolery to me!

I want to know who the market audience is for this? Drug lords and ... ?
I collect [corporate] mugs.
MTBF ~ 700.000 h
 

Offline hayatepilot

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 262
  • Country: ch
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 11:00:22 pm »
I'm suprised that plants don't need any green light for growing...  :o
But I'm sure he did the research.

This will be most definitely be used for growing Cannabis. Hopefully only where it is legal...  ::)

Greetings
 

Offline nowlan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 639
  • Country: au
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 11:01:01 pm »
Still waiting on plasma to go mainstream. (http://luxim.resilient.lighting/products/grow-lighting)

$550 for a light? sheesh. Need someone to do cost analsysis for a 600w MH/HPS to see break even point.
Skeptical about 10,000 hours too, psu always fail before then.

Plenty of 'coral' growers testing the waters with led, without raising eyebrows.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 11:08:25 pm by nowlan »
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1126
  • Country: no
  • Cut me some slack, I'm a biochemist!
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 11:12:06 pm »
I'm suprised that plants don't need any green light for growing...  :o
But I'm sure he did the research.

This will be most definitely be used for growing Cannabis. Hopefully only where it is legal...  ::)

Greetings

Plants don't absorb green, that's why they are green!

Chlorophyll a and chlorophyll b both have two absorption peaks, two at the red end of the spectrum (640 and 660 nm) and two at the blue end (430 and 450 nm). Grow lights are usually a 50/50 mix of red and blue LEDs close to these wavelengths, regular white light emits a lot of colors that plants won't get much use of - and thus be less efficient at making plants grow for every watt.
I collect [corporate] mugs.
MTBF ~ 700.000 h
 

Offline StuUK

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 387
  • Country: gb
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 11:34:14 pm »
I could definitely see a market for this product, surprised he's chosen to go with crowdfunding in some respects...
 

Offline hayatepilot

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 262
  • Country: ch
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 11:46:20 pm »
Still waiting on plasma to go mainstream. (http://luxim.resilient.lighting/products/grow-lighting)

$550 for a light? sheesh. Need someone to do cost analsysis for a 600w MH/HPS to see break even point.
Skeptical about 10,000 hours too, psu always fail before then.

Plenty of 'coral' growers testing the waters with led, without raising eyebrows.

Assuming the 150W LED provides the same growth as a 600w MH then the Calculation is easy:
(550$ (LED cost) - 100$ (MH lamp cost))/0.2$ (cost per kWh)*1/(0.6kW-0.15kW)= 5000h

So after 5000 hours the LED is cheaper. Not bad at all!

Greetings
 

Offline bookaboo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 604
  • Country: ie
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 11:49:04 pm »
Still waiting on plasma to go mainstream. (http://luxim.resilient.lighting/products/grow-lighting)

$550 for a light? sheesh. Need someone to do cost analsysis for a 600w MH/HPS to see break even point.
Skeptical about 10,000 hours too, psu always fail before then.


Cheap drivers will pop before 10k hours but something like Meanwell/Inventronics/Philips are rated at 100k.Whether they actually hit that figure remains to be seen but even at half that an LED fitting will have paid it's costs several times over. On projects we are seeing <1% failure rates on good quality drivers in industrial environments some of which are approaching 5 years now.

I'd love to see a blog or Amphour with Doug on discussing this, driver choice, spectrum etc. Also at what point in efficiency and energy costs do grow lights become practical and economic for commercial or hobby farming of foodstuffs?
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1126
  • Country: no
  • Cut me some slack, I'm a biochemist!
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2016, 12:05:19 am »
Still waiting on plasma to go mainstream. (http://luxim.resilient.lighting/products/grow-lighting)

$550 for a light? sheesh. Need someone to do cost analsysis for a 600w MH/HPS to see break even point.
Skeptical about 10,000 hours too, psu always fail before then.

Plenty of 'coral' growers testing the waters with led, without raising eyebrows.

Assuming the 150W LED provides the same growth as a 600w MH then the Calculation is easy:
(550$ (LED cost) - 100$ (MH lamp cost))/0.2$ (cost per kWh)*1/(0.6kW-0.15kW)= 5000h

So after 5000 hours the LED is cheaper. Not bad at all!

Greetings

In our plant pathology lab we use 400W HPS bulbs that cost $14 each, electricity is 0.04 USD/kWh. The bulbs have an MTBF of 20,000 hours. And I'm sure they cover a much bigger area than one of those LEDs that are spotlight-shaped. (400W GE 85379 are $9/ea and MTBF of 24,000 hours).

We did "pilot-project" with using LEDs as grow lights (in cooperation with the University of Oslo: http://www.nhm.uio.no/fakta/botanikk/nyheter/2013/hvorfor-lilla-vekstlys.html), results were "good" - but the plants develops darker leaves, grows in a more compact fashion and grows slower as compared with the HPS lamps (don't have any values on how much slower).
I collect [corporate] mugs.
MTBF ~ 700.000 h
 

Offline hayatepilot

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 262
  • Country: ch
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2016, 12:27:46 am »
4ct per kWh?? Thats insanely cheap!
In my country it's at least 4 times more, even for  big industrial customers.

I've assumed 100$ for the conventional bulb including a reflector, driver ect.
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1126
  • Country: no
  • Cut me some slack, I'm a biochemist!
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 12:40:44 am »
4ct per kWh?? Thats insanely cheap!
In my country it's at least 4 times more, even for  big industrial customers.

I've assumed 100$ for the conventional bulb including a reflector, driver ect.

Blessed with a lot of hydroelectric power I guess! I'm surprised Switzerland isn't?
I collect [corporate] mugs.
MTBF ~ 700.000 h
 

Offline Corporate666

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1998
  • Country: us
  • Remember, you are unique, just like everybody else
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2016, 11:01:40 am »
I wish him success, however I think it's going to be an impossible task based on his price point.

He does a comparison with metal halide and white LED but doesn't say anything about why his product is better than the (literally) thousands of other brands of red/blue LED grow lights in the world.   There are lots of established name brand grow lights for a much lower price-per-watt point than these (many of which are also fanless), so I'm curious what the differentiator is on this one?  Most of the big brands have been touting custom LED wavelengths and high-end LED's too.

Then there is the avalanche of Chinese junk on the market that is so cheap that even if it's not great quality, it is very hard to compete against.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Country: us
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 11:29:17 am »
I'm suprised that plants don't need any green light for growing...  :o
But I'm sure he did the research.

This will be most definitely be used for growing Cannabis. Hopefully only where it is legal...  ::)

Greetings
They don't I have had Aquariums and live aquatic plants and they are in the right wavelengths for plant growing.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3078
  • Country: ca
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2016, 01:16:37 pm »
This will be most definitely be used for growing Cannabis.

Doug Ford that we know of here is brother of Rob Ford (RIP) , the former crack smoking mayor of Toronto.
 

Offline Plantilium

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: au
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2016, 06:18:25 pm »
Hi All,

Aaron here. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the PHG-150  :) PS. Doug is sitting opposite me. He'll really be answering the questions....
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1126
  • Country: no
  • Cut me some slack, I'm a biochemist!
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2016, 06:35:09 pm »
Hi All,

Aaron here. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the PHG-150  :) PS. Doug is sitting opposite me. He'll really be answering the questions....

Who do you see as your target audience?
I collect [corporate] mugs.
MTBF ~ 700.000 h
 

Offline Towger

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1466
  • Country: ie
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2016, 07:06:16 pm »
Who do you see as your target audience?

Fellows who want to grow lettuce and have a concrete bunker without a meter on their electricity supply ::)

A house a couple of doors from a friend was rented out, it is in a good area of (South County) Dublin .  They thought a nice Chinese family was living there and would wave when they saw them.  One day they arrived home to discover the house raided by the police.  It had been converted into a grow house.  He was in it afterwards and it was destroyed, electricity bypassed, ventilation ducting cut through walls and the ceiling, water from the hydroponics allowed to leak everywhere, it looked as if they just watered the plants upstairs and allowed the water to drip through the ceiling to the plants down stairs.  The house had to be rebuilt, just keeping the 4 exterior walls and roof.

Back on topic:
I have no interest in such things but Indiegogo + Flexible funding + high price =  :--
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:09:04 pm by Towger »
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 28128
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2016, 09:07:16 pm »
Assuming the 150W LED provides the same growth as a 600w MH then the Calculation is easy:
(550$ (LED cost) - 100$ (MH lamp cost))/0.2$ (cost per kWh)*1/(0.6kW-0.15kW)= 5000h
So after 5000 hours the LED is cheaper. Not bad at all!

That's the kicker. Closer to 25c here for power, or a lot more if you have a smart meter during peak hours. I assume these things run 24/7?
And if you are a professional (or serious) grower running 24/7, you don't want to be buying Alibaba or Ebay crap.
Quality costs money, and I'd be very surprised if the pro model lights aren't the same price point as Doug's.
 

Offline StuUK

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 387
  • Country: gb
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2016, 09:23:09 pm »
Assuming the 150W LED provides the same growth as a 600w MH then the Calculation is easy:
(550$ (LED cost) - 100$ (MH lamp cost))/0.2$ (cost per kWh)*1/(0.6kW-0.15kW)= 5000h
So after 5000 hours the LED is cheaper. Not bad at all!

That's the kicker. Closer to 25c here for power, or a lot more if you have a smart meter during peak hours. I assume these things run 24/7?
And if you are a professional (or serious) grower running 24/7, you don't want to be buying Alibaba or Ebay crap.
Quality costs money, and I'd be very surprised if the pro model lights aren't the same price point as Doug's.

Indeed, I'm pretty sure there is a market (and I'm referring to legal commercial growers of flora and fauna not pot!!!) for these but I'm still not convinced that Indiegogo is going to attract that particular audience, but hey nothing ventured nothing gained.
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1918
  • Country: au
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2016, 09:27:04 pm »
At least if you get it off Doug, you'll know a lot of thought and experience and brainpower has gone into the design, so you will get your moneys worth.

I myself bought a light off him about 3 years ago, it's on right now.
 

Offline Plantilium

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: au
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2016, 11:02:23 pm »
Hi All,

Aaron here. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the PHG-150  :) PS. Doug is sitting opposite me. He'll really be answering the questions....

Who do you see as your target audience?

As per the video (if you've seen it). Its a high end product. hence the price points. it really is the Ferrari of grow lights. I had no choice in the matter btw  :-X

Doug of course spent hours researching and testing numerous combinations of LEDs from various manufacturers. The OSRAM's were the best on the day. If we do find a market i'm expecting it to be with commercial growers. in saying that there's nothing stopping the do-it-yourself crowd from getting involved. time will tell i guess.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 11:32:11 pm by Plantilium »
 

Offline Plantilium

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: au
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2016, 11:12:34 pm »
Who do you see as your target audience?

Fellows who want to grow lettuce and have a concrete bunker without a meter on their electricity supply ::)

A house a couple of doors from a friend was rented out, it is in a good area of (South County) Dublin .  They thought a nice Chinese family was living there and would wave when they saw them.  One day they arrived home to discover the house raided by the police.  It had been converted into a grow house.  He was in it afterwards and it was destroyed, electricity bypassed, ventilation ducting cut through walls and the ceiling, water from the hydroponics allowed to leak everywhere, it looked as if they just watered the plants upstairs and allowed the water to drip through the ceiling to the plants down stairs.  The house had to be rebuilt, just keeping the 4 exterior walls and roof.

Back on topic:
I have no interest in such things but Indiegogo + Flexible funding + high price =  :--

We think the price is reasonable, plus given the quality we're not making a whole lot of money.... I do note your comment re the flexi-funding. It appears to be a common theme on the thread. If you're interest i'm building the KStarter as we speak. Given that we already have 10 units ready for sale we don't anticipate any issues with the KStarter registration. Unfortunately this is my second job. Only so many hours in the day....  |O The KStarter should be ready in the next week or so. :)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 11:20:23 pm by Plantilium »
 

Offline LabSpokane

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1899
  • Country: us
Re: Doug Ford: Plantilium PHG-150 LED Grow Light
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2016, 03:32:33 am »
If you already have production units, you're *definitely* not indiegogo material.  :-DD
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf