iPhone killer on Indiegogo

[DomesticHacks]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-dragonfly-futurefon--3

I think they have to add a radio, a flashlight and a bottle opener. Then it is the perfect phone.

[electr_peter]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-dragonfly-futurefon--3

I think they have to add a radio, a flashlight and a bottle opener. Then it is the perfect phone.

Do not forget to add solar panels and a lighter.

All I can say is that this thing broke my BS detector

[corrado33]

Jack of all trades syndrome.

Sure, they may get this thing to work, but it will never be GOOD at any of the things it claims to do. It'll be a crappy cell-phone, and a crappy (too small, not powerful enough, etc) computer.

There's a reason that there aren't any mass produced computer/cell phones yet. They inherently need different interfaces and apps. I don't want a computer like interface on my phone and a certainly don't want a phone like interface on my computer (I'm looking at you windows 8.)

[janengelbrecht]

Bull Shitty products are all over
Well cant see any real market for that hybrid.

[ExclamationMarek]

Looking at projects like this gives me the shivers! Just like the "Kreyos" smartwatch, a $1.5 million project that ended up being a horribly bad quality product with it's creators admitting that they are "Marketing experts with no hardware experience".

This one is so incompetent that even the design specifications don't match the 3d model:

Oh and he is claiming that it will be manufactured by Benchmark Electronics in the USA. And that he is already working with them. Yeah right.

[gabhex21]

They already did an IG campaign one year ago and collected 18K.
Can't find any news of what happened after that (altough I can imagine ).

the-if-convertible-by-idealfuture-3-devices-2-screens-1-data-plan

I also found a few "prototype" pictures on the VP of Social Media linkedin page

[tszaboo]

OMG I went blind! Does it even have speakers to be able to use it as a phone?
Once, I'll do the KS campaign for the Sabre pyramid.
http://media.engadget.com/img/products/445/9jhs/9jhs-800.jpg

[wraper]

[wraper]

OMG I went blind! Does it even have speakers to be able to use it as a phone?

Sure they will licence tissue conduction technology http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/27/3045848/kyocera-urbano-progresso-au-launch-may-30-announcement

[carpelux]

fön is the swedish name for hairblower.

Go figure :-)

[jc101]

For the ultimate phone, you need one of these...

 http://www.pomegranatephone.com

[cloudscapes]

you've got to be joking

whoever stretched the screenshot over the photo in Photoshop did a really shitty job. nice ribbon cable between the screen and the main part too. or not.

I think for every crowdfund of over a couple tens of grand, they have to fly over somebody from IGG/KS to inspect the prototype personally. it'll never happen... but that's how it SHOULD be.

[tom66]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

[wraper]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

Therefore they have $10 000 goal and flexible funding 

[Corporate666]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

That's why IGG and KS are complicit in this.

Anyone who knows anything about the industry knows that the promises being made are completely impossible to achieve.  The backers are encouraged to back these projects without having a full understanding of the risk involved and, having heard of IGG or KS, believe there is a legitimacy to the project because it is on that site.  The creators tend to be young, naive, doe-eyed morons who don't understand the technology or design, and just presume that engineers are paid to build what designers create, and anything which can be designed can be created. 

Then those designers run into a brick wall called "reality" when everything takes 10x as long and costs 100x as much as they expected.  So they disappear from the crowdfunding website and offer sporadic and shitty updates along the way to blowing all their backers money on a stupid fantasy.

Kreyos, Lifx, Mu Thermal, Battery Vampire, 30-second rechargeable battery, that modular phone, ORSTO watches, Agent smartwatch... all of them have either not delivered or haven't come close to delivering on the promises they made.

The only KS projects that seem to ever work out are the incredibly simple ones - and even then, they deliver very late and tend to have unhappy backers.

Regulation will be coming soon.

[Warhawk]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

That's why IGG and KS are complicit in this.

Anyone who knows anything about the industry knows that the promises being made are completely impossible to achieve.  The backers are encouraged to back these projects without having a full understanding of the risk involved and, having heard of IGG or KS, believe there is a legitimacy to the project because it is on that site.  The creators tend to be young, naive, doe-eyed morons who don't understand the technology or design, and just presume that engineers are paid to build what designers create, and anything which can be designed can be created. 

Then those designers run into a brick wall called "reality" when everything takes 10x as long and costs 100x as much as they expected.  So they disappear from the crowdfunding website and offer sporadic and shitty updates along the way to blowing all their backers money on a stupid fantasy.

Kreyos, Lifx, Mu Thermal, Battery Vampire, 30-second rechargeable battery, that modular phone, ORSTO watches, Agent smartwatch... all of them have either not delivered or haven't come close to delivering on the promises they made.

The only KS projects that seem to ever work out are the incredibly simple ones - and even then, they deliver very late and tend to have unhappy backers.

Regulation will be coming soon.

It could not be told better. I guess those "morons" have Steve Jobs bibliography next to their bed and are dreaming about "visionary life" whole night.It s interesting how these people try to rule the business although they have no touch with the reality. "Start-my-own-consumer-oriented-company-in-father's-workshop-days" are gone and they didn't get it.

[cloudscapes]

*we* know you can't develop a competitite smartphone for less than a million, but the general public sees things like arduino celular kits, and things like these:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/26/2976703/mit-high-low-tech-diy-cellphone

and assume that with an extra few tens of thousands, you can up the resolution of the monitor, add a few clocks to the cpu and have some cases 3d printed. and from their perspective, it's not entirely unreasonable.

[Corporate666]

*we* know you can't develop a competitite smartphone for less than a million, but the general public sees things like arduino celular kits, and things like these:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/26/2976703/mit-high-low-tech-diy-cellphone

and assume that with an extra few tens of thousands, you can up the resolution of the monitor, add a few clocks to the cpu and have some cases 3d printed. and from their perspective, it's not entirely unreasonable.

I think the backers are incredibly naive, to the point of stupidity.

I don't know much about the mechanics of space travel, but if someone told me they could build a magnetic coil propulsion system to launch objects for 1/10th the cost of current technology, and he just needed $50k to build it and then could sell his system for $100k/ea, I wouldn't believe it... it's just so far ahead of what is currently possible as to be unbelievable.

These smartphone people are claiming to build a phone that is more capable than an iPhone, has (many) more parts, drastically more complicated to build, will be sold in much smaller volumes, and this company doesn't have 1 hundred-billionth of Apple's buying power or expertise... but yet they can do it for $100k (or less).

The backers are tremendous idiots, of course... but the only reason they are suspending their disbelief is the legitimacy given to these projects by virtue of being on KS or IGG.  Those sites go out of their way to not tell you that these projects are totally unvetted and there is zero due diligence done by them.  They also don't give backers the tools to perform that DD so, IMO, they are complicit.

[PointyOintment]

fön is the swedish name for hairblower.

Go figure :-)

…which is named after a meteorological phenomenon. Still doesn't make sense for this crazy thing.

[LabSpokane]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

I think that # might even be conservative. The tooling alone would blow through that amount quickly.  Let alone salaries and overhead for the two to three years it would take to get to market.

[mamalala]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

I think that # might even be conservative. The tooling alone would blow through that amount quickly.  Let alone salaries and overhead for the two to three years it would take to get to market.

And let's not forget to add a few million more to the budget to hand over to the lawyers. After all, this is supposed to be a mobile phone/tablet/whatever. That area is just a huge minefield of patent lawsuits about pretty much every aspect of such a device, thanks to a patent system that is broken beyond belief.

Greetings,

Chris

[tom66]

Additionally:
 - RAM upgrade from 4GB to 8GB. KISS guys, now you've got two SKUs to manage.
 - new operating system / dual boot "Windroid"  will require additional software development
 - advanced mechanical flip screens will be fragile and require careful testing
 - mechanical keyboard? great, time to engineer every single part of that very carefully.

I bet this would cost $20 million to actually develop.

[mikerj]

Has this just reinvented the Motorola Atrix which I had a few years back?

[janoc]

That's why IGG and KS are complicit in this.
The only KS projects that seem to ever work out are the incredibly simple ones - and even then, they deliver very late and tend to have unhappy backers.

I think you are a bit unfair to KS at least. There have been quite a few even complex projects there that have worked out just fine, with minor delays - Oculus Rift, for example.

I don't want to look like I am defending the scammers, but how would you want to regulate something like KS or Indiegogo without killing the crowd-funding concept (which is genuinely useful)?

How is it different from a pushy guy roping you into buying some dodgy speakers from a white van in a parking lot? Should we regulate parking lots because they facilitate this sort of activity and don't vet everyone coming to park there? Regulation won't protect against human stupidity, unfortunately.

I think Kickstarter is doing quite a bit to combat these scammers already and is pulling projects when it comes to their attention. Indiegogo plays a dead bug, I guess they will change their mind after a first successful class-action lawsuit.

[tom66]

Well, Oculus had a prototype, these guys have nothing.

If they can show a prototype of the final or near-final product then they have, in my opinion, most of the skills necessary to bring the project forwards.

Otherwise, they're either terribly misinformed about the costs required to bring such a product to market... or they're scammers.

[janoc]

Well, Oculus had a prototype, these guys have nothing.

If they can show a prototype of the final or near-final product then they have, in my opinion, most of the skills necessary to bring the project forwards.

Otherwise, they're either terribly misinformed about the costs required to bring such a product to market... or they're scammers.

Sure, agreed Tom. No dispute here at all.

I only disagree with the overgeneralization by Corporate666 earlier. I think that is unwarranted.

[Bassman59]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

I think that # might even be conservative. The tooling alone would blow through that amount quickly.  Let alone salaries and overhead for the two to three years it would take to get to market.

And once it's ready to go to market, they have to convince the carriers to allow the phones on their networks.

Yeah, right, like that will ever happen.

[Corporate666]

That's why IGG and KS are complicit in this.
The only KS projects that seem to ever work out are the incredibly simple ones - and even then, they deliver very late and tend to have unhappy backers.

I think you are a bit unfair to KS at least. There have been quite a few even complex projects there that have worked out just fine, with minor delays - Oculus Rift, for example.

I don't want to look like I am defending the scammers, but how would you want to regulate something like KS or Indiegogo without killing the crowd-funding concept (which is genuinely useful)?

How is it different from a pushy guy roping you into buying some dodgy speakers from a white van in a parking lot? Should we regulate parking lots because they facilitate this sort of activity and don't vet everyone coming to park there? Regulation won't protect against human stupidity, unfortunately.

I think Kickstarter is doing quite a bit to combat these scammers already and is pulling projects when it comes to their attention. Indiegogo plays a dead bug, I guess they will change their mind after a first successful class-action lawsuit.

And for those complex projects that worked out, was it KS's vetting process that assured it?  Absolutely not - in fact, their process actually serves to weed out companies more likely to succeed because they specifically reject the idea that it's a pre-ordering system (which is what it really is) and claim it's about funding ideas that would otherwise have trouble being funded.

As for regulating without killing the platform - it should be no different than any other platform of funding.  In other venues, there are specific rules and regulations that apply to companies soliciting funds in terms of what material statements they make or who they solicit funds from.  This is all intended to prevent the problems that arise through KS - in other words, funders who don't realize that it is entirely and purely their job to determine whether the project can actually succeed.  The only notice of this is a small box with a sentence or two saying "we don't check this stuff, that's up to you".  It's clear from the comments of many failed projects that the backers don't realize they have zero recourse through KS - and actually, KS acts as a buffer between the creator and backer, because the backers sole method of contact is through the KS website and KS doesn't enforce anything upon the creators after the projects complete.

If you look at the big money projects, virtually all of them were either horrendously late and/or had major quality problems of promises that went totally unfulfilled (like Lifx), or they were created by big groups that didn't need the $$ and just used KS as an advertising vehicle. 

[timb]

The guy behind this did come out with a horrible dual display laptop a few years back. But if you read the specs this is clearly way over promising. There's no way they can push this out the door at $800. Apple, maybe, but not a no-name company with no way to get all the molding and mechanics they'll need for this.

Also, fuck anyone who calls a phone/tablet a phablet. Fuck them right in the ear with a bag of duck dicks.


Sent from my Smartphone

[tom66]

Ugh. I just had a look at the specifications. I'd been dismissing it before but this takes the cake.

http://www.idealfuture.com/#!dragonfly-specification---android-versio/c1m9v

One of the displays is detachable and a separate phone altogether. It's way too thin to fit a large battery and electronics in it (FOR A NEW STARTUP - relying on existing technology rather than a unique battery) so I don't see it having a long battery life.

They have not one but TWO 1440p LCDs, 7 inches each, that's probably $80 per display onto the BOM. But they still don't know if they will use Corning or Sapphire glass -- won't this be decided by the display choice and touchscreen technology?

The base has up to 512GB of solid state storage... that's going to be stupidly expensive to add, especially in a space-constrained smartphone platform.

Then they have two 4K@30fps capable 16MP cameras... in a smartphone. I mean I'm sure it's possible but why on earth do you need TWO? And then there are two SECONDARY  5MP cameras... because this thing is basically two phones in 1... Wait, where did the $800 go so quickly?

It's a "Phat Phablet" ... there, I said it. 

[MiataMuc]

I think there is another point to this: the smartphone market is higly competetive, with chinese brands trying to get a part in the western markets. This companies do have a lot of money, and a lot of knowledge (Huawei, etc.). If one of them would see the chance for a phone with this specs, and a reasonable price, they would do it.. no KS/IGG needed. But they do not - and this project itself is not a real invention or something really new to the market, but just a combination of known technologie.

Flo

[janoc]

But they do not - and this project itself is not a real invention or something really new to the market, but just a combination of known technologie.

I  would rather say it is a fantasy of the project owner designed to milk money from a few suckers, not a combination of known tech. Those guys have zero track record having successfully built anything of this complexity, the budget is BS, etc. It is scam, nothing more.

[Corporate666]

The guy behind this did come out with a horrible dual display laptop a few years back. But if you read the specs this is clearly way over promising. There's no way they can push this out the door at $800. Apple, maybe, but not a no-name company with no way to get all the molding and mechanics they'll need for this.

Also, fuck anyone who calls a phone/tablet a phablet. Fuck them right in the ear with a bag of duck dicks.


Sent from my Smartphone

Somewhere (maybe here, or maybe there?) I read that not only did he merely come up with a concept that never went to production, but the people who funded the project ended up suing the company for fraud due to false representations.  Xentrex or something?

Also there was a picture somewhere of a couple of pieces of wood and a hinge as a "mock up" of an early dual/folding computer thing.

Insanity, really.  I can't believe this project is still active!  It's so obviously a steaming pile of horseshit and a black hole of any funds put in.

[Psi]

With a thread title of "iphone killer" i was hoping for a device that would kill all iphones within range, maybe with a malformed bt packet or something
 

[tom66]

Went to check back on this, raised just under $650,000. Not sure on 70% rebate bit, does that mean they'll give back $455k (oh how generous) or is that a discount on their product in future?

They have this video:

But pause at 0:54 and you can see the screen images are superimposed. So it doesn't work, of course, as would be expected. So if anything indicates this is a scam, then it's this.

[SL4P]

My next step will be a fully functional equivalent of the Lenovo X220T in a phone or 'phablet' form factor. 
i7 equiv with 16GB RAM + accessible uSD and uSATA SSD inboard.

Loaded 'lockable' docking base with support for LAN, 2x displays, optical drive, USB & ports etc.
Plug it in - use it as a workstation. Walk around underclocked as a phone/tablet.

A VGA/DCI/ HDMI out adapter cable woudl be useful for presentations along with generic BT keyboard & mouse support.

OS is a bit harder to choose - but it has to support a desktop OS for application compatibility - and probably Windows/'nix/ and IOS for consistency of the better apps. 
Android (mobile) is getting there, but still a lot of 'kiddie coders' making what could be potentially great apps.

Battery/mobile mode gets phablet lifespan, hard-docked gets AC/bigbattery life.

Perhaps dual OS / switchable when mobile vs. wired-or-wireless docked. 
Some app crossover for stuff like PDFs etc. (most already in IOS and Android)

With the docking WS capabilty - LAN backup / file / server authentication credentials etc as usual.

[cloudscapes]

the bit between 1:00 and 1:10 in that video pretty much shows that they "green screened" the actual physical screen (maybe even with green paper) and overlayed/chroma-keyed fake video where the screen is in post. her finger moves the screen slightly, but the objects on-screen don't move with it.

for those of us who work in graphics, it's pretty obvious.

normally we can compensate for it by keyframing the corners of the overlay to the corners of the fake screen. kind of like Photoshop's transform->distort, but for video. looks like they didn't bother.

[Corporate666]

Honestly, the people backing this one are fools in the fullest sense of the word.

It should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about technology that this one is a non-starter.  And for those that don't know anything about technology would uncover tons of information on why it's not a runner in moments with a simple Google search.

All the people getting rooked by this one have nobody to blame but themselves.  I almost want to contribute just to tell them how silly they were once they all start losing their tempers when the project is months behind and the creators have stopped all communication.

Oh, and that chick in the video is pretty hot... pity she's complicit in all this.

[Refrigerator]

Honestly, the people backing this one are fools in the fullest sense of the word.

It should be obvious to anyone who knows anything about technology that this one is a non-starter.  And for those that don't know anything about technology would uncover tons of information on why it's not a runner in moments with a simple Google search.

All the people getting rooked by this one have nobody to blame but themselves.  I almost want to contribute just to tell them how silly they were once they all start losing their tempers when the project is months behind and the creators have stopped all communication.

Oh, and that chick in the video is pretty hot... pity she's complicit in all this.

It does feel like she's making up stuff on the fly, and sound as if she's about to cry, imo.

[Monittosan]

I found it hard to get past the fake hair and those glasses just piss me off for some reason lol   

[Refrigerator]

I found it hard to get past the fake hair and those glasses just piss me off for some reason lol   

It's been told that EEs are allergic to bullshit.   

[Stonent]

It would be virtually impossible to design a smartphone, especially one that complicated, for less than $2 million.
My opinion.

Therefore they have $10 000 goal and flexible funding 

Yeah, to me it looks like just a cash grab or he's going to import something from China that is nothing like what was described and pass it off as his design.

[mrflibble]

Holy shit. 

Your smartphone just got smarter, your purchasing behavior just got dumber. Introducing the Dragönflut Knäckebrot by Sendmemoney.

That thing is just too funny on so many levels. Or is that tragic on so many levels? Probably both, which makes it even more funny.

[snoopy]

I just looked through their website and cannot see any real physical hardware or prototypes.

No pcbs, no mother boards, nothing wired up etc

It just seems to be a whole lot of concept 3D animations and MBA bullshit marketing wank. And people have forked out 650K for this !!!

This is a train wreck waiting to happen although I could be proved wrong

[janoc]

I just looked through their website and cannot see any real physical hardware or prototypes.

No pcbs, no mother boards, nothing wired up etc

It just seems to be a whole lot of concept 3D animations and MBA bullshit marketing wank. And people have forked out 650K for this !!!

This is a train wreck waiting to happen although I could be proved wrong

Oh you are too negative. Always the half-empty vs half-full glass, c'mon. The guy has just retired to Belize and you are calling that a train wreck waiting to happen? I would call it a very smart business move!

[NF6X]

Well, they have a nice VP of Social Media, but I think they need a VP of Engineering to tell them that the $650k they raised is unlikely to be enough to pay for the tooling for the plastics of their device, even if we assume that their graphic artist who makes all of their flashy renderings knows how to design production-ready plastics. Which I doubt, given that the animations appear to show the device folding at a sharp edge with no signs of any type of hinge assembly.

[Nerull]

They appear to have silently changed the android-only version to a chromebook (+ android?) version. Maybe they decided the BOM cost wasn't high enough?

All the specs refer to an android-only version, though. Maybe they just didn't notice the giant header which says CHROMEBOOK. Or that making the base run chrome os does require putting a x64 board in it.

[bigdawg]

Sure enough; they still dont have a working prototype. Latest comment from the creators:

"Please keep in mind, we are building the most complex and advanced mobile device which requires time.

We have our working prototype update coming in the next few weeks and are going to begin shipping by the end of December 2015."

[edy]

For the ultimate phone, you need one of these...

 http://www.pomegranatephone.com

 

That site is hilarious! Great for pranking people....

So is that a project by Nova Scotia provincial business development and tourism board? 

[ez24]

For the ultimate phone, you need one of these...

 http://www.pomegranatephone.com

I want one of these - but how to buy it?  The links did not work for me?

[firewalker]

Does anyone believe they are going to deliver?

Alexander.

[bigdawg]

Does anyone believe they are going to deliver?

Alexander.

I didnt trust this when they ran the campaign, and I still think they are just killing time to run out of the money so they can launch some other campaign to find more suckers. But one of my friends had contributed to this and he somehow still seems optimistic.

[rzeznicc]

People who back this clearly have disposable income, so they are not in the vicious cycle of dumb because poor, and poor because dumb.

Thus everyone who backs it, in fact doesn't invest in technology, but in education. Its a 800$ lesson how to not be dumb with your money.

There's one assuming that every time there are different people spending money on these projects, and not the same ones...


Here is an idea: let's make a topic on the forum, where EEVBLOG guys will collaborate and come up with some scamy too-good-to-be-true device.
Then we will Kickstart it, backed by a few CAD renders, hot girl and a few jargon buzzwords, and earn a few hundred thousand dollars.
We cant either split the cash or donate it to some educational foundation.

[Raj]

LOL,Iphone killer?
Almost every smartphone has better specs than an iphone

Multi-purpose device? photon Q anyone?

[Kalidor]

Looks like it is a deliberate scam.
https://thedanzing.com/the-worst-crowdfunding-scam-ever-the-story-of-the-dragonfly-futuref%C3%B6n-4808eb9ce4b3#.n6fiinvn4

In the second last update they did a mistake in the video, a sign from Amour patisserie which was there in Dec 2014.
And end of July the went from 100% responsive to 100% silent.

More evidence (from the article):
Between the years of 2006 and 2010, Jeff grifted approximately 75 would-be investors to the tune of $500,000. He did this in the form of selling “memberships” [shares] in a company called Armada Systems LLC.
Predictably, nothing ever materialized from Armada Systems LLC and Jeff Batio was subsequently banned from selling securities in the State of Illinois.