Author Topic: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards  (Read 13793 times)

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Offline kindiana

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Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« on: February 28, 2015, 08:42:31 am »
Here is an improvement on the age old stripboard or perfboard, it allows two dimensional connections with only small solder bridge connections, an kickstarter campaign will be up soon but I want to get your opinions first. Constructive criticism, bashing and disapproval allowed.
Images:
http://imgur.com/a/GpXoO
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 09:16:24 am by kindiana »
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Perf+
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 08:52:17 am »
I am sorry, but I don't see that much improvement over normal perfboard with single pads or with strips.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Perf+
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 08:56:31 am »
I rather like it.  I would rather use that vs. the traditoinal (pad per hole) perf or (strip) vero boards. It is somewhat the best of both worlds.

I would prefer that the strips be centrally located between the holes. To make it less accidental that you would make a connection,
and also to allow connection from either side.
 

Offline kindiana

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Re: Perf+
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 09:07:22 am »
I am sorry, but I don't see that much improvement over normal perfboard with single pads or with strips.
It allows you to route an connection between any two points while only using a small amount of solder
e.g. red = solder
http://imgur.com/i12UoOR
 

Offline electr_peter

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 09:29:48 am »
I think it could be a good idea. Are the lines in the centre between the holes? It looks as if lines are almost touching holes. Also, if you are going in this direction, why not add small strip lines in perpendicular direction as well? (full vertical lines and dashed horizontal lines)

I don't like pad per hole boards because I need to add massive amounts of solder or add wire for connections, it gets messy. Strip lines are better because you can use strip lines as bus bars and easily cut out unneeded parts.
 

Offline kindiana

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 09:34:57 am »
I think it could be a good idea. Are the lines in the centre between the holes? It looks as if lines are almost touching holes. Also, if you are going in this direction, why not add small strip lines in perpendicular direction as well? (full vertical lines and dashed horizontal lines)

I don't like pad per hole boards because I need to add massive amounts of solder or add wire for connections, it gets messy. Strip lines are better because you can use strip lines as bus bars and easily cut out unneeded parts.
There are vertical lines in the back so you can just flip it over because the holes are plated through so it connects both sides. The lines are 8 mills(0.2mm) off the  holes, within tolerance to the fabs I'm using.
 

Offline Pillager

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 10:07:22 am »
I've been working on something similar, still haven't got it just right. Wish you the best of luck!  :-+
Greets

Tom
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 10:30:41 am »
You need to define the "value proposition" clearly and succinctly. I will spend 30 seconds determining whether to continue looking at your product.

The value proposition is "I suggest <X>. If you follow my suggestion, then you will get benefits <B>, will loose <L>, and <U> will remain unchanged".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline kindiana

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2015, 11:07:25 am »
You need to define the "value proposition" clearly and succinctly. I will spend 30 seconds determining whether to continue looking at your product.

The value proposition is "I suggest <X>. If you follow my suggestion, then you will get benefits <B>, will loose <L>, and <U> will remain unchanged".
Thanks for the tips, I'll keep that in mind when I am writing for the Kickstarter
 

Online edavid

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2015, 12:10:03 pm »
I think it would require too much time-consuming board flipping to be practical.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2015, 04:36:55 pm »
I quite like the idea, but perhaps some shaping of the pads - maybe one side shaped to X-busses, and the other to Y busses...

Also some way to incorporate SMD pitched components on main board - or daughter 'conversion' boards with solder mask - so they can be dropped flush to the carrier 'buss' board.

My mind is racing, and I can see a few ways to make this work really nicely.
Image is just one part of the idea I'm suggesting... works top & bottom copper, with rotated 90-degrees for other side of the board as mentioned.
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline kindiana

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2015, 05:11:06 pm »
I quite like the idea, but perhaps some shaping of the pads - maybe one side shaped to X-busses, and the other to Y busses...

Also some way to incorporate SMD pitched components on main board - or daughter 'conversion' boards with solder mask - so they can be dropped flush to the carrier 'buss' board.

My mind is racing, and I can see a few ways to make this work really nicely.
Image is just one part of the idea I'm suggesting... works top & bottom copper, with rotated 90-degrees for other side of the board as mentioned.

I quite like your SMD component idea, although the pad shapes looks like the bottom should be rotated 180 degrees so there will be one rail per row of pads, here is my original pad design
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2015, 05:16:14 pm »
Yes - in fact. I was suggesting both top & bottom 'extensions' (to meet either or both interleaved X busses...)
--- and identical (rotated 90 deg) on the other side of PCB to match the Y busses.
Extend the copper half-way - not just mask the solder mask - so solder bridges are easy and robust (no need to wick across to the curved edge of the ring).

Sorry quick scrappy sketch wasn't all that great.
SMD 'slices' would be really useful - and maybe other odd footprints.

I have LOTs of spare time, so can chat offline for a whole 'system' - which I reckon could have some legs...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 05:18:19 pm by SL4P »
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Online dunkemhigh

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2015, 10:06:20 pm »
Interesting idea, but IME the hard work with stripboard is not making solder bridges - hell, I get those for free! - but cutting the strips. These boards make neat connections, but you still need to cut the strips (and now on both sides). Some way of dealing with that would be really cool, IMO.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2015, 11:20:46 pm »
Another thought - running two (very thin) busses in each gap could be nice.
Combine them as a single buss if needed, or use independently for data or supply pins on either side... it needs a little more design with slightly smaller rings, and tiny lay-bys on the bus tracks (with solder mask between the buss lay-bys) to help with solderability...
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Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2015, 12:26:15 am »
I think it would require too much time-consuming board flipping to be practical.

+1

And after a few connections I think I would quickly lose track of what is connected to what.

I would put the bus strips into groups of 5 to minimize need for bridging and track cutting.
Bob
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Offline rastro

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2015, 02:53:29 am »
I think it would require too much time-consuming board flipping to be practical.
...
And after a few connections I think I would quickly lose track of what is connected to what.
...
These are great prototyping PCB ideas.  It also seems like there needs to be an application for circuit layout to keep track of the "nodes" and parts placement. 
 

Offline sunnyhighway

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2015, 03:00:44 am »
I like the idea. But why not go for dual layer instead of double sided?
Much easier to keep track of your connections.

As a downside it will be more challenging to cut tracks.
 

Offline Neganur

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2015, 05:48:06 am »
Biting my tongue here, but you're supposed to use real wire on those perf boards not just smear solder across two pads.

I'd rather see two-sided normal perf board with round pads.
 

Offline kindiana

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2015, 07:04:53 am »
Another thought - running two (very thin) busses in each gap could be nice.
Combine them as a single buss if needed, or use independently for data or supply pins on either side... it needs a little more design with slightly smaller rings, and tiny lay-bys on the bus tracks (with solder mask between the buss lay-bys) to help with solderability...
The problem with running two strips is that you need to separate them by at least the tolerance of the pcb fab, and have reasonable width for the tracks for current carrying capacity, so you quickly run out of the couple millimeters between the holes.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2015, 02:01:56 pm »
You could patent this. Just saying.
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Offline SL4P

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 02:34:19 pm »
Biting my tongue here, but you're supposed to use real wire on those perf boards not just smear solder across two pads.

I'd rather see two-sided normal perf board with round pads.
And you can if you want to.
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Online matseng

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 03:41:38 pm »
A few years back I saw this pcb that is the opposite of this idea - instead of make the tracks easy to cut they made it easy to make controlled solder bridges.  I kinda like the idea, but I've never tried it myself.

http://www.elecfreaks.com/2362.html


 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2015, 03:44:06 pm »
Nice lateral thinking...  X busses on one side, Y busses on the other
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Online tggzzz

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Re: Perf+: an improvement on perfboards and Veroboards
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 08:27:58 pm »
You could patent this. Just saying.
Not any more, he couldn't. It has been disclosed by publication.

OTOH nobody else could patent it and prevent him from making it himself.

There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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