Author Topic: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding  (Read 37324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« on: December 09, 2016, 10:28:56 PM »
I'm opening this new topic to discuss crowdfunding related things connected to the open source project that is active for some time here and that is shaped to the great extend by valuable comments and ideas from many members of this forum. I'd like to thanks to all of them once again.

The project is "positioned" to bridge the gap between the DIY and professional worlds, and have a great potential to disappear in that gap or become an example how to combine the best practice from both worlds :).

The campaign will be conducted on the CrowdSupply and I'd like to hear your opinions about pledge levels. First please note that I'm not going to offer a completed solution. The reason for that is CE/FCC certification that is very costly and for 100 units that is campaign goal it could make a whole calculation completely unattractive.
Also please note the campaign is conceived as group buy to achieve few goals:
  • Manufacture assembled modules (combined they have almost 800 items and that is far too much for many DIYers/makers despite the fact that DIY-friendly SMD packages are solely used)
  • Manufacture compact metal enclosure to mount safely all parts and
  • Decrease the cost per unit
Again, this is a group buy, not a new product production kick start, because it's not a profit driven (I have another source of money for living). Therefore prices of all pledges will be set to cover without loss the cost of manufacturing, transportation cost, crowdfunding platform (12%) and payment gateway fees (2.9%).
I was thinking about the following pledge levels (the final number and contents will be set in accordance with your wishes):
  • Set of bare PCBs only (4 of them, 2 layer)
  • As above + metal enclosure (with other metal parts such as TFT display support, AC/DC modules support, channel's heatsinks)
  • Set of assembled PCBs only
  • As above + metal enclosure set + wire harness
  • As above + TFT display + AC/DC modules (2 of them)
  • As above + Arduino Due
The latest one include all what is needed to assembly a fully functional unit that can be ready to run after firmware is uploaded. In essence you'll need a screwdriver for that operation and PC with Arduino IDE for uploading. Of course, you also need multimeter to calibrate it using built-in calibration wizard.

Thanks in advance for your valuable inputs.
 

Offline Tazz

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
  • Country: fr
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2016, 11:41:14 PM »
Hello Prasimix,
For the fun and my solely personal view of the spirit electronic DIY, I will pledge for the level 2.
My ideal level would be a 2b level which include wire harness and all the most costly components that could benefit from a group buy.

anyway  :-+ :clap:

 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 12:56:39 AM »
Thanks Tazz, point taken. "2B" makes sense: Bare PCBs + enclosure set (or lets call it all mechanical parts) + wire harness
 

Offline Theboel

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • Country: id
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2016, 02:03:41 AM »
May I know the approximate cost for each level ?
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2016, 09:16:24 PM »
May I know the approximate cost for each level ?

I still don't have a complete calculation, but you can get some idea if you spent some time studying BOM that is published here.
 

Offline sdouble

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 123
  • Country: fr
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 12:48:17 AM »
do you have a simulation of the noise density of the device ?
Any hope to get several assembled units ?
i would be interested in such a product if the expected noise level would be very low.
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 03:53:14 AM »
The crowdfunding should start any day now, and I decided to reduce number of pledge levels to four to simplify logistics:

Level A (PCBs)
Set of four bare PCBs that has to be populated using convenient SMT components for hand soldering.

Level B (Mechanical parts)
2U height metal enclosure predrilled and painted, nuts&bolts, wire harness and electromechanical parts (AC inlet, cooling fan, binding posts, etc.) required to mount and interconnect all modules inside the enclosure.

Level C (Core modules)
Fully assembled and tested set of four modules that represents the core of the EEZ H24005:
  • 1 x AUX PS module,
  • 2 x Power board, and
  • 1 x Arduino shield (carry Arduino Due or compatible board)
Level D (Almost completed)
Include all from Level B and Level C and few items to make fully functional unit, or when listed all together that is:
  • enclosure,
  • nuts&bolts,
  • wire harness and electromechanical parts,
  • fully assembled and tested core modules,
  • 3.2" color touch-screen display,
  • Arduino Due board and
  • 2 x AC/DC modules (115/230VAC) with power cable.
All other combinations we can manage individually if this group buy succeed.
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 04:09:12 AM »
do you have a simulation of the noise density of the device ?
Any hope to get several assembled units ?
i would be interested in such a product if the expected noise level would be very low.

Don't have any simulation but measured it with different loads and currents. In general it's about 10-20 mVpp, 250-500 uVavg, 1-1.5 mVrms @ 20 MHz without additional Cout and measured without differential probing. Instead of adding huge output capacitor (e.g. 100uF and more) it has 10-22uF on the output and for application where lower noise is needed you can connect that capacitor on the output terminals. I think that is still better then have huge capacitor connected permanently regardless of the built-in down programmer circuit that speed up its discharge. Another possibility (another revision) is to add MCU controlled switch for selecting between "high Cout/slow" and "low Cout/fast" output as you can find is some professional PSUs.
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Full teardown picture...
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2017, 11:48:08 PM »
The CrowdSupply team spent some time to make a full teardown of the PSU :clap:. That is a picture of what will be included into Complete kit pledge level:

 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w, Kean, alexanderbrevig, timgiles, krho

Offline timgiles

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 106
  • Country: se
  • Programmer, DB architect
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2017, 05:06:52 AM »
Great to see the project coming together as a successful (I am sure) crowd funded project.

I take it there will be a fairly long timeframe on how long the crowdfunding project is open for? a month?
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2017, 05:11:28 AM »
We are planning not longer then 45 days, but if accidentally everything is happened faster we could also notify manufacturers earlier that delivery date can be also earlier then what will be set in campaign.
 

Offline ChrisG

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2017, 05:42:29 AM »
Not being aware of this plan/crown idea before but it looks like a decent thing! Keep it going and count me (nearly) in.
 

Offline kolesar007

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 10
  • Country: si
    • Products and solutions for the development of electronics
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2017, 07:31:59 AM »
Really nice teardown :).
I'm interesting only for wire harness, because I have almost all material, enclosure and PCBs. But till now I don't have time to complete assembled all the parts. So wire harness will spare me some time :).

BR
Sandi


 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
EEZ H24005 campaign is now live
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2017, 07:32:35 AM »
Dear all, please note that campaign is now live and I'd like to thanks once again to all good people from this forum who contribute in various way to this project. Here is the campaign link.
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2017, 07:38:35 AM »
Really nice teardown :).
I'm interesting only for wire harness, because I have almost all material, enclosure and PCBs. But till now I don't have time to complete assembled all the parts. So wire harness will spare me some time :).

BR
Sandi

Thanks, I'll take a note about that. And all others who have some other combinations/demands in their mind that are not covered with announced pledge levels please post them here as a reminder for us, and we'll contact you if campaign succeed.
 

Offline ChrisG

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2017, 01:29:30 AM »
Whishing you all the best with crowdfunding of this great project! You deserve the recognition by a well funded project! Great job so far.
 
The following users thanked this post: prasimix

Offline LapTop006

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 46
  • Country: au
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2017, 01:17:02 AM »
I've backed since it'd be handy to have a power supply that goes over 30v, even though I've 8 channels worth of very nice Agilent supplies waiting for me to get around to fix them.

I would like a few more physical controls, an output on/off button for each channel would be really handy, as would a rotary encoded for values, to be more tactile than just swiping a touch screen.
 

Offline ChrisG

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2017, 02:16:14 AM »
Hi all, I agree with Laptop006 here. A knob to change values is more user-friendly. If you wanted to you could reach for the knob change value whilst looking somewhere else (board, equipment). Also a physical knob channel on/off is more intuitive. I guess one would be able to implement this by hacking the case and sensing those buttons by the Arduino right?
 

Offline timgiles

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 106
  • Country: se
  • Programmer, DB architect
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 02:34:10 AM »
Hi,

Am I right in thinking everything is being shipped from US/Canada? So EU backers will likely get hit by import taxes? Its not an issue, but I just wanted to check.

Also, are the heatsinks for the modules included with the Enclosure and Assemblies option?

Thanks Timothy
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2017, 03:12:36 AM »
First of all, I want to thanks all of you who make it possible that in a less then a two days we are almost on the half way to the target.

This PSU started to look "suspicious" to many from the moment when touch-screen is introduced :). No one can believe that it could be usable and real/practical substitution for the good old knobs. That's fine. Finally not a single manufacturer who is dominate in this sector didn't offer it (yet). That must be a valid reason for that, right? I'd like to believe that the main reason is still high cost (and especially cost of developing workable/usable GUI) and not usability issue.

Anyway, we have enough time to add encoder (but one not up to four as someone already suggested :phew:). The main challenge is not firmware development but finding a place on the front panel (and Arduino Shield board) that everything can be housed in presented enclosure. Situation with OE switches is much worser if we want to keep this form factor and internal wiring with power relays for coupling in series and parallel. But, thanks to EEZ Studio, we can easily produce another GUI layout with dedicated and clearly displayed OE buttons. What we are really missing (and this group buy could change that) is other people experience with real device, not something that is result of "thought experiment", "wishful thinking" or analogy with other/existing UIs. Please also understand that I do not want to underestimate many real life stories where some of them that are related to mission critical operations. Some people already expressed their concern about possible mistake, or inability to react in as in case of simple knob or switch. I think that 13 different type of already built-in protections could assist one if something like that eventually is happen.

One could also vote now for different enclosure, perhaps vertical instead of horizontal one. I that case we could rearrange everything to make more space for OE switches. But I'm not sure is that completely fair and in line with what is presented in campaign. We should in that case get approval for every single backer for such modification (redesign of Arduino PCB is not an issue here).
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 03:21:21 AM »
Hi,

Am I right in thinking everything is being shipped from US/Canada? So EU backers will likely get hit by import taxes? Its not an issue, but I just wanted to check.

You're right, same with the rest of the world. This is a part of the game. Even if we could organize something else for EU, you should pay 25% Croatian VAT if you cannot provide valid EU company VAT No.

Also, are the heatsinks for the modules included with the Enclosure and Assemblies option?

Thanks Timothy

Yes, as shown on the picture here. It also include AC/DC and TFT display mounting rails and will be sourced from the Varisom, PT.

If you are not going to pledge for Enclosure and Assemblies, but wants Core modules please let me know and we'll manage just heatsinks separately for you.

 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 03:34:43 AM »
What we are really missing (and this group buy could change that) is other people experience with real device...
Oops, this is not completely true, I got feedback from first guy who successfully assembled unit (from experimental group buy organized few months ago) ;). Here is what he said.
 

Offline Romain

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: wales
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2017, 07:01:34 AM »
Hi, it's an amazing job you did there! Good luck with the crowd supply, I'll probably join as well :)
For the like of me, I can't find the review Dave made of your power supply. I think it was in a mailbag, but I couldn't find the link anywhere.
 

Offline prasimix

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 837
  • Country: hr
    • EEZ
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2017, 07:05:16 AM »
Thanks for good wishes. I didn't sent it to Dave so it shouldn't be in the Mail bag ;)
 

Offline Romain

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: wales
Re: Preparing EEZ H24005 for crowdfunding
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2017, 07:08:05 AM »
Woops, sorry about that. I was convinced I saw it somewhere though.  :-//
Then I guess the question is: when do you send a unit to Dave for teardown?  :-/O ;D
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf