Author Topic: Rayton Solar Scam? - 3.1M Raised and climbing! 60% Cheaper? 25% more efficient?  (Read 25671 times)

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Offline matthewpang

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Here is the patent in full in case anybody wants to read it


Also because experimental evidence is as important as theory lets consider: Green, M. A., Emery, K., Hishikawa, Y., Warta, W., Dunlop, E. D., Levi, D. H., and Ho-Baillie, A. W. Y. (2017) Solar cell efficiency tables (version 49). Prog. Photovolt: Res. Appl., 25: 3–13. doi: 10.1002/pip.2855.

Per the above:

1) The world record as for a "thin" Si cell (at 35 micron its still over 10x thicker than Rayton's claimed cell) is 21.2%±0.4%

Source:
Moslehi MM, Kapur P, Kramer J, Rana V, Seutter S, Deshpande A, Stalcup T, Kommera S, Ashjaee J, Calcaterra A, Grupp D, Dutton D, Brown R. World-record 20.6% efficiency 156?mm?×?156?mm full-square solar cells using low-cost kerfless ultrathin epitaxial silicon & porous silicon lift-off technology for industry-leading high-performance smart PV modules. PV Asia Pacific Conference (APVIA/PVAP), 24 October 2012.

2)  The world record for a Si cell in the neighborhood of Rayton's claimed thickness is 10.5%±0.3% for a ~2micron thick cell

Source :
Keevers MJ, Young TL, Schubert U, Green MA. 10% efficient CSG minimodules. 22nd European Photovoltaic Solar Energy Conference, Milan, September 2007.

If Rayton can truly produce a 24% efficient 3 micron thick cell - why are they not flooding the entire internet with their test data?

« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 02:54:12 pm by matthewpang »
 
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Offline uwezi

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There are almost no limits to how cheap you can make them once you go flexible. A little loss of efficiency is acceptable.

Do you mean like the https://www.infinitypv.com/ cells?

https://youtu.be/ZE3zf2lGyt8?t=13m33s


Looking at the prices in their shop this does not look like a cheap technology... But on the other hand 4% efficiency cannot be considered a little loss of efficiency...
 

Offline Marco

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I mean't more something like Highflex Solar and as previously mentioned 3M barrier films.

For now boutique items, but once all the patents runs out and the trade secrets leak out I believe this will be the future for cost reduction.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 12:57:09 am by Marco »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Got a reply from Pheonix Nuclear Labs:
Quote
Thank you for reaching out, happy to help!
1) Yes, we ran a test/proof of concept phase with one of our earlier generation accelerators.
2) Yes, we provided the implanted wafers to Rayton.
3) Rayton is under contract to purchase a machine and has made a down payment. The funds for the machine are coming from the Start Engine campaign.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

My first question would be how much money do they need to raise in order to buy the machine.
And once they have the machine, what else is involved in actually producing workable even pilot production solar panels (hint, it's a lot extra work)
 
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Offline LabSpokane

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Got a reply from Pheonix Nuclear Labs:
Quote
Thank you for reaching out, happy to help!
1) Yes, we ran a test/proof of concept phase with one of our earlier generation accelerators.
2) Yes, we provided the implanted wafers to Rayton.
3) Rayton is under contract to purchase a machine and has made a down payment. The funds for the machine are coming from the Start Engine campaign.
Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

My first question would be how much money do they need to raise in order to buy the machine.
And once they have the machine, what else is involved in actually producing workable even pilot production solar panels (hint, it's a lot extra work)

A first, major warning sign with this is that Rayton contracted with Phoenix, who appears competent to provide particle accelerator/generation equipment, but does not specialize in wafer cutting.  This likely means that the company that owns the "Smart Cut" process told Rayton to get lost, meaning that "Smart Cut, Co." feels either Rayton itself or its idea is not viable. 

The next warning sign is that there are no photos of the implanted wafter and its 3 micron progeny anywhere on Rayton's site. It's hard to believe that the jellyfish demo is the real deal. 
 

Offline uwezi

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It's hard to believe that the jellyfish demo is the real deal. 

Well actually, the laterally cracked piece of stuff which the jellyfish swallowed just before death could most possibly be a thin piece of silicon. Possibly even silicon which came from an exfoliation process. It looks as if it was so-called <100>-silicon, which means that one of the three right-angled stands vertical towards the surface - this because the cracks in the thin film appear to be in right angles themselves.

And while the jellyfish-sample shows the typical current-collecting finger pattern on the front there seems no way to be able to electrically contact this sample for measurements.
 

Offline Mukrakiish

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Just recently, I've seen many DIY youtubers that do some really neat stuff usually are now being 'sponsored' by Rayton Solar. These guys who usually have great credibility, immediately follow up with this "Rayton is so great" spiel after their video and fill the description with Raytons praise. I get needing money in this world but I start to wonder if anyone ever researches for 15 minutes before tagging their name to someone's company.  |O
 
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Offline matthewpang

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Links please!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Oh dear, Rayton Solar just sponsored none other than Minute Physics to do a video on their tech  :palm:
I think that's the trigger for me to look at a more practical and researched response video...

 

Offline hermit

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They better get their start up costs under control before the market squashes them completely.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/13/solar-to-get-crazy-cheap/

"Part of the cheap solar power will be unleashed because the cost of installing solar panels at big solar farms and on rooftops will drop 60% to an estimated average of around four cents per kilowatt hour by 2040, the report said. That's cheaper than coal and natural gas power in many regions."
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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They better get their start up costs under control before the market squashes them completely.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/13/solar-to-get-crazy-cheap/

"Part of the cheap solar power will be unleashed because the cost of installing solar panels at big solar farms and on rooftops will drop 60% to an estimated average of around four cents per kilowatt hour by 2040, the report said. That's cheaper than coal and natural gas power in many regions."

"UK offshore wind to become cheaper than gas generation"
https://www.renewableenergymagazine.com/wind/uk-offshore-wind-to-become-cheaper-than-20150727  :bullshit:

"Storage of Solar Energy to become Cheaper and Easier"
http://solarpower.com/blog/2016/07/19/storage-of-solar-energy-to-become-cheaper-and-easier/  :bullshit:

"Only renewables - not nuclear - could be too cheap to meter "
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2012/may/22/energy-nuclear-renewables  :bullshit:

"By 2010, electricity from new wind power projects will be cheaper than electricity from new conventional power plants, according to the DOE."
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/increase-renewable-energy/wind-power-agriculture#.WcY19rMo9R0  :bullshit:

"By 2018, Germans and Danes to have the 24/7 free unmetered electricity they were promised."
http://guardian.co.uk/Germans-and-Danes-to-receive-free-domestic-electricity  :clap:

OK, 404 there.

At least these guys' pet snakes don't have any friction problems.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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But...snakes require friction to slither and move. These guys are paralyzing snakes with their :bullshit:...get PETA!

Rayton Solar, garunteed to make floppy snakes since 2017... ;)
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline Lloyd3000

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There is a new video about this from "today i found out"...
You can see the "enigneers" and they say they aim to produce solar cells for 22.7ct/w



I thougt i mention it, beacause nobody else posted it here..

 
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