Author Topic: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O  (Read 16121 times)

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Offline SeanB

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2016, 02:19:11 am »
Acids are from car exhaust, the nitric and nitrous acid is from diesel combustion in most cases, the sulphur is from both diesel and petrol combustion, as both contain sulphur in them. Carbonic acid from CO2 in the air. Particulates are rubber worn off tyres, lead as residual lead in unleaded fuel ( which does contain a little lead, as it was either made, stored or pumped through old piping which had leaded fuel in it, plus a minor amount from lead based solders in piping and metal piping). Carbon is from incomplete combustion, which makes that brew of carbon black containing this. Skin because most dust indoors is made up from skin particles, outdoors a part is from skin, but also paint particles, pollen, fibres from vegetation and such.
 

Offline rpannen

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2016, 02:40:40 am »
There's also the energy that's needed to cool down the air to below the dew point.

For a realistic climate like 30°C, 75% rel. humidity you need to cool it down by 15° to harvest a significant amount of water.

30°C air at 75° rel. humidity holds 23g of water per m^3.
15°C air at full saturation holds 13g of water per m^3.

So you need to cool down 100m^3 of air by 15° to get 1l of water!

100m^3 of air have a weight of 116.5kg at 30° and standard pressure. Cooling down 116.5kg of air by 15° requires about 1800kJ. That plus the latent heat released by the condensation amounts to over 4000kJ (~ 1.1 kWh). Still at (impossible) 100% efficiency.

Maybe you'll need a solar roadway to plug in your magic bottle?
 

some fun math depending on their claim that they can condense 1L water in 150min if humidity is 99% at 46 deg C (picture).

Latent heat of evaporation of water: 2270 kJ/kg

=908 kJ/h = 252.2W + the fan in the Airo model + heat exchange pump
this needs about 2 sq meter solar panel
all at 100% efficiency


« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 02:54:12 am by rpannen »
 
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2016, 11:26:38 am »
It's made it to Facebook! 3.8 million views and 67,200+ shares. They should be fully funded in no time!

https://www.facebook.com/new.invention.technology/videos/726935180776734/
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2016, 10:07:21 am »
Thunderf00t bench test
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2016, 10:13:18 am »
I think I'm temped to pick up the whiteboard marker...
 
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Offline Delta

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2016, 10:56:16 am »
I think I'm temped to pick up the whiteboard marker...

DO IT!

Nothing tears these scams apart like numbers on a whiteboard!
 

Offline Kalidor

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2016, 10:44:18 pm »
The new video from Thunderf00t

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline rpannen

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2016, 11:41:25 pm »
Fine print on the project page:

It is explicitly pointed out that the products which serve as Perks are in the development phase. It cannot be excluded that during the development phase technical, economical or other circumstances arise which may result in (i) a delay of the delivery of the Perk or (ii) the production and delivery of the Perk in a different form as regards functionality and/or design or (iii) even non-production of the Perk. In the latter case there will be no Perk delivered to the Contributor. Contributions will not be refunded. By making a Contribution the Contributors explicitly acknowledge the risks associated with the occurrence of one of the aforementioned events.

Pure evil genius!
 

Offline Kalidor

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2016, 12:57:33 am »
Fine print on the project page:

It is explicitly pointed out that the products which serve as Perks are in the development phase. It cannot be excluded that during the development phase technical, economical or other circumstances arise which may result in (i) a delay of the delivery of the Perk or (ii) the production and delivery of the Perk in a different form as regards functionality and/or design or (iii) even non-production of the Perk. In the latter case there will be no Perk delivered to the Contributor. Contributions will not be refunded. By making a Contribution the Contributors explicitly acknowledge the risks associated with the occurrence of one of the aforementioned events.

Pure evil genius!

Many if not most of the backers do not understand one word English, the most I would say are from Asia. Like Triton or Ritot this product is professionally advertised in many languages, if you google "fontus ?" you get almost 5000 results, google "fontus ?" and you get over 40000 results. People then just go to Indigogo and think this is a internet shop and figuring out how to "buy" this super gadget. There are only 49 comments, another hint the backers can't speak English. Look how they react if it goes wrong like sProjector, they copy past sentence like "please refund me too fully. Thank you" or "tell me how a REFUND", maybe that's how google translates Korean to English. Another interesting fact is that most of the backers are new IGG customers that never backed anything else.
The hole damn internet press and their copy paste reporter clowns should be send to  >:D.

Note, looks like this forum is not in Unicode, replace the ? with the Korean and Chinese symbol of water.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 01:09:37 am by Kalidor »
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2016, 01:31:24 am »
Who wants to drink water anyway? Fish do it in it. Get me a self-filling beer bottle.
 
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Offline edy

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2016, 02:52:53 am »

The new video from Thunderf00t


What I got out of that video is a new Kickstarter/IndieGogo idea... It would take less energy to purify 1 L of your URINE than to condense 1 L of water out of air.

How about it everyone? Let's put together a URINE PURIFICATION DEVICE powered by solar so we can have an endless supply of water.  :-DD
YouTube: www.devhackmod.com
"Ye cannae change the laws of physics, captain" - Scotty
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2016, 05:44:38 pm »
Also, I had to use a room dehumidifier at some point. It was a unit cca 700x500x300mm in size, and you had to plug it into the wall, it was making quite some noise. So after a day, you had something like a liter of water in it, when a room was very humid. It was using something more than 100W. So the same thing portable? I dont see that happening.
 

Offline 3db

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2016, 02:06:04 am »
On the subject of human waste.
On top of the urine,sweat and vapour we exhale we also drop about 7 billion turds every day.
Our planet has a lot to deal with.
That's without even mentioning the terrible things we do to our ecosystem
ALL the time.

3DB   :-[
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2016, 05:31:33 am »

The new video from Thunderf00t


What I got out of that video is a new Kickstarter/IndieGogo idea... It would take less energy to purify 1 L of your URINE than to condense 1 L of water out of air.

How about it everyone? Let's put together a URINE PURIFICATION DEVICE powered by solar so we can have an endless supply of water.  :-DD

Already exists, called a solar still. Works with urine, brackish water or even brine.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 07:29:34 pm »
Not released until tomorrow, but for those following this:
I know the campaign is almost over, but never to late to bust a dodgy product  ;D
NOTE: Video has been updated with some added stuff.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 11:17:49 pm by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Kean

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 01:43:14 am »
I just noticed the last paragaph regarding his testing process on the James Dyson Award page
http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/projects/fontus-2/

Quote
I conducted a series of experiments trying to identify the ideal conditions, materials and cooling systems. I simulated different climatic conditions in my bathroom, modifying the air temperature and humidity. After more than 30 experiments, I finally achieved a constant drop-flow of one drop of condensed water per minute. After developing a functioning inner system, I designed a compact and practical hull which can be easily attached to a bicycle, integrates the water bottle and can be comfortably handled.

So he tested it, and after "more than 30" attempts, managed to get one drop per minute in a rather unrealistic setup.
150 drops (over 150 minutes) is about 8ml (@ 50ul per drop).  That's rather a long way off 1 litre!
 

Offline rpannen

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2016, 02:01:31 am »
I doubt that this is just a scam. I rather think that the guys are very stupid and belive this can be done (at least the design guy).
 

Online edavid

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2016, 02:23:45 am »
Well, that's the really interesting question: stupidity or scam?   I'm leaning toward scam, but... how could he think he could get away with it?  I guess that's also a form of stupidity.  Or maybe I'm stupid for thinking he won't get away with it  :-//
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 02:25:30 am by edavid »
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2016, 03:45:42 am »
I doubt that this is just a scam. I rather think that the guys are very stupid and belive this can be done (at least the design guy).

Well, that's what you often get with these industrial design and marketing/business guys. They just want to be "creative" and visionary, the unsexy part of making it actually work is the job of the engies in the dungeon. So when something doesn't work, it is the always fault of the engies for not trying hard enough and being negative and unconstructive with all their remarks how it can't work! If they only worked harder and were bringing solutions and not problems!

uBeam is/was a stellar example of that approach.

As far as I know, understanding thermodynamics or physics in general is not a requirement for a degree in design. Neither is math ...



 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2016, 05:22:43 am »
I doubt that this is just a scam. I rather think that the guys are very stupid and belive this can be done (at least the design guy).

Well, that's what you often get with these industrial design and marketing/business guys. They just want to be "creative" and visionary, the unsexy part of making it actually work is the job of the engies in the dungeon. So when something doesn't work, it is the always fault of the engies for not trying hard enough and being negative and unconstructive with all their remarks how it can't work! If they only worked harder and were bringing solutions and not problems!

uBeam is/was a stellar example of that approach.

As far as I know, understanding thermodynamics or physics in general is not a requirement for a degree in design. Neither is math ...

exactly, listen to the BS flowing out of the uBeam scammer, sorry CEO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=805&v=ukgnU2aXM2c

 

Offline Kalidor

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2016, 08:12:39 pm »
I think he is a dreamer, otherwise he would not sent his private contact information  :palm:

http://postimg.org/image/urg3jp0sx/full/

Kristof Retezár
rkristof@gmx.at
+43 68110868897
www.fontus.at
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 10:54:46 pm by Kalidor »
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2016, 09:09:22 pm »
I think he is a dreamer, otherwise he would not send his private contact information  :palm:

http://postimg.org/image/urg3jp0sx/full/


The contact info is public anyway, because Fontus is a corporation in Austria and the registration info in the "Firmenbuch" is public. You only have to pay a small fee to access it (which is quite unusual, actually - in many countries the basic information is freely available). That info will contain personal information of the people acting for the company, things like shareholder structure (if applicable), etc.

If you don't mind to pay a few bucks, you can get the info here (through an UK registry lookup service, because the Austrian ones are byzantine ...):
http://www.gbrdirect.co.uk/AvailableProducts.aspx?code=450879+h&regAuthor=007

BTW, did you read what he wrote? He basically admits that the stuff they posted on the IGG page is complete BS in order to not reveal their secret sauce before it is "protected" (patented?) and that the real product will use "other energy inputs", etc. Isn't that a textbook bait and switch? Aka we promise one thing and deliver (if ever) something else?

I think that admission alone should get him in hot water for false advertising. I am quite certain that Austrian laws are fairly strict on such things.

I think that the guy is an industrial designer freshly out of school who has just dreamed up something, made a Powerpoint deck with a sales pitch and got an award from a business association for it, collecting a few design awards in the process (aka awards that judge the looks and presentation of the thing, not actual feasibility). And he then uses those as some sort of validation of his idea.

He has obviously absolutely no idea how to make it work or whether or not it is even feasible. I think they are hoping on getting a patent and then will shop around for a fool of a VC to license it to.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 09:13:20 pm by janoc »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2016, 09:23:21 pm »
http://postimg.org/image/urg3jp0sx/full/



Bullshit they didn't release data, they gave a very detailed graph of volume out vs time, temperature, and humidity.
They are now saying this is all made up, so they were deliberately lying and being deceptive.
Just like Batteriser, uBeam, et.al they didn't expect the engineering community to call them out on their claims.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2016, 09:26:13 pm »
I think that the guy is an industrial designer freshly out of school who has just dreamed up something, made a Powerpoint deck with a sales pitch and got an award from a business association for it, collecting a few design awards in the process (aka awards that judge the looks and presentation of the thing, not actual feasibility). And he then uses those as some sort of validation of his idea.
He has obviously absolutely no idea how to make it work or whether or not it is even feasible. I think they are hoping on getting a patent and then will shop around for a fool of a VC to license it to.

There is a person on twitter who went to school with him who is "99% sure" the project came from a subject they had were they had to come up with a fictional product.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Self-Filling Water Bottle Converts Humid Air into Drinkable H2O
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2016, 09:31:11 pm »
I just noticed the last paragaph regarding his testing process on the James Dyson Award page
http://www.jamesdysonaward.org/projects/fontus-2/

Quote
I conducted a series of experiments trying to identify the ideal conditions, materials and cooling systems. I simulated different climatic conditions in my bathroom, modifying the air temperature and humidity. After more than 30 experiments, I finally achieved a constant drop-flow of one drop of condensed water per minute. After developing a functioning inner system, I designed a compact and practical hull which can be easily attached to a bicycle, integrates the water bottle and can be comfortably handled.

So he tested it, and after "more than 30" attempts, managed to get one drop per minute in a rather unrealistic setup.
150 drops (over 150 minutes) is about 8ml (@ 50ul per drop).  That's rather a long way off 1 litre!

Admittedly that was in 2014, so maybe after another 100 design tweaks he managed to get two orders of magnitude improvement  ::)
 


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