Author Topic: tiq probe - did not fund on Kickstarter - but will be going into production!  (Read 46405 times)

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Offline free_electron

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tiny oleds

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-91-inch-15P-Pins-128x32-OLED-LED-LCD-Display-Module-White-SPI-Interface-/161197919549?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2588250d3d
http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-0-96-inch-128x64-OLED-Display-Graphic-Module-I2C-Serial-Interface-SSD1306-/301026775154?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4616981072

how about embedding a small vibrator motor instead of a beep ?

i dont like the power cable when using it. put a prismatic liion cell in it. charge from usb powerport. put a small 5v 5v dc dc converter in the probe that way you are alwys floating !
if im poking around in a system that is a few hundred voltas above ground i want a complete floater ! no wires coming out. way too dangerous.

there are 5v dc dc converters in dip-8 package with 1000 volt standoff voltage. cost a few dollar. easy to embed.
internal buildu coud be
Code: [Select]
mini usb - dcdc - liion charger - prismatic cell - oled - probe tip

[code]
[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prismatic-UF653450R-3-7-V-1100-mAh-Li-Ion-Battery-/110745104538?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c8ec309a]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prismatic-UF653450R-3-7-V-1100-mAh-Li-Ion-Battery-/110745104538?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c8ec309a[/url]
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Quote
tiny oleds

They are nice, but at my age I want BIG oleds so I can see them without glasses :)

But... if those meant you could one each side (for left- and right-hand) that would be a winner.

Quote
a small vibrator motor instead of a beep

As a deaf person, this gets my vote  :-+
 

Offline fcb

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I think reading the display might be an issue with the tiq.

I don't think separate left/right handed designs are the best way to solve the issue (I ordered a right handed unit, but I've found I use scope probes in both hands).  Also, if I'm probing around an IC (even an SOIC) I change the angle dramatically with a scope probe - this would require some contortion to read the tiq display.

I guess I could just leave the tiq at the edge of the board and use a flying lead? Sort of defeating the object of the handheldness of the tiq.

It would be great to see a video of mark probing a bunch of varied IC pins on a board.

 

Offline lewis

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Acceleration sensor to flip the display?
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Offline free_electron

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Acceleration sensor to flip the display?
good idea.
with a graph lcd you can rotate image 180 degrees.
instead of a single led use oje above and one below probe tip.

then there is no need for left or right handed operation
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Offline markhen

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Quote
tiny oleds

They are nice, but at my age I want BIG oleds so I can see them without glasses :)

I'll try to remember to post a picture tomorrow of a bunch of OLEDs I've evaluated - as you will see, they are either smaller/too small, or larger to the point tiq would have to be made larger (in the worst direction).

Quote
a small vibrator motor instead of a beep

As a deaf person, this gets my vote  :-+

Hmm, this is something to think about.

It would be great to see a video of mark probing a bunch of varied IC pins on a board.

I'll try to make such a video this week (I'm building up a piece of hardware for portable demos at Maker Faire next weekend so that might be the "target"! pSoC based, of course ;) ).

Acceleration sensor to flip the display?
with a graph lcd you can rotate image 180 degrees.

This was discussed quite early in this thread. Unfortunately the acceleration sensor and flippable display won't help move the buttons....

Thanks to all!

Mark
 

Offline zapta

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MicroUSB is better, you just need to be able to leave the past behind and understand that smaller doesn't mean worse.

+1 for micro USB and make sure the housing is solder to through hole pads, not just SMD pads, otherwise they peel off too easily.   

BTW, a good source for very flexible usb cables are those retracted cables, you open the screw, remove the cable and straighten it.

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Quote
a small vibrator motor instead of a beep

As a deaf person, this gets my vote  :-+

Hmm, this is something to think about.

Mark

If you need a small motor to practice, take apart an oral-B toothbrush
16mm long 5mm diameter. A phone one might be better (smaller) this one might make you think you are getting shocked!  :scared:
 

Offline fcb

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I'm sorry to not be all politically correct, but I don't think i'd bother with a vibrator in the unit - how are you going to decide what 'vibrate' means??? Yet more menus etc....

At least with a piezo, you can signal to the user the voltage and any 'movement' on that voltage. And they are pretty low-cost and easy to source - the vibrators less so. Steady low tone for logic low, high tone for high and a warble for pulses.

I thought about the MEMS for flipping the display, but if it's anything like my phone this could get (very) annoying.

 

Offline markhen

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For interest, picture of some of the many small format displays I've evaluated...

OLEDs on the left (Ebay varieties) are TOO SMALL - viewable area is tiny. Good contrast, but TINY characters....

OLED on the right is nice, but would require making tiq quite a bit bigger in the "worst" direction...

LCD in the middle is current front runner - bigger viewable area, larger characters, more compact than proto LCD, MUCH MORE READABLE (pic attached).

Keep it sharp -

Mark
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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That display is significantly better, indeed.

Mind, it would be super-cool if it were RGB as well  >:D
 

Offline lewis

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Unfortunately the acceleration sensor and flippable display won't help move the buttons....

Do the buttons need to be pressed much during probing?

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Offline markhen

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Do the buttons need to be pressed much during probing?

Lewis - good point - no, the buttons don't need to be pushed at all in normal probing. There are 3 cases where you might push buttons:

1. If you select single pulse acquisition mode (via the menu button and menus) then one of the buttons is used to re-arm the acquisition after a pulse capture.

2. If you select "n pulses" in the pulse generator menu then another button is used to initiate the pulse stream.

3. The menu button is used for setting up the various probe functions.

Control layout and menu ref attached.

Cheers -

Mark
 

Offline fcb

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Thanks for that Mark.

Good luck at the Maker-Faire, hopefully you can find those extra sales needed to hit MVP on KS.

 

Offline markhen

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Thanks for that Mark. Good luck at the Maker-Faire, hopefully you can find those extra sales needed to hit MVP on KS.

Thank you! Very excited to be going to Maker Faire in the SF Bay Area this weekend - they expect >120,000 people!? I have connected with folks from KS, Cypress, Hackaday etc. and several tiq backers - and expect to meet many more "makers"!

If you want to catch me at the Faire (I'll be roaming a lot) please email me, or use Twitter (@Innavatus).

For those going to the Faire, I will be demonstrating tiq prototypes and people can get hands-on with them. I've built a little box with test points on it to show how tiq automatically transitions between widely different types of signals - pic attached. Built it using Cypress pSoC 4 Pioneer demo board ($25) - I'm totally hooked on these Cypress pSoC devices - the ability to put your own analog and digital circuitry into the chip is amazing - and a really good, free, IDE. More powerful than the Arduino IDE, not a lot harder to use, either. There's even a Cypress pSoC 4 prototype board for $4 !! The pSoC 5LP is the real business, much more powerful and flexible than the 4, but the 4 will let you do a lot of projects. Recommended.

I'll report back after the weekend!

Cheers -

Mark
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #140 on: May 20, 2014, 04:03:46 am »
To anyone who hasn't been to a Maker Faire - GO! What an amazing show! I was not prepared for a (large) county fair-sized show for tech enthusiasts!? Absolutely amazing.

Since I didn't book a year ago, I couldn't get a booth/table - so I was a walking demo :-) tiq had a very good reception, everyone who went hands-on with it loved it.

One of the many highlights was meeting, and socializing with, the Hackaday team. I read Hackaday every day (along with EEVblog)!

Hoping the extra publicity leads to more pledges in the coming days - 2 weeks left on KS. Interim prototype cases arrive from Shapeways today (see my updates above, and on KS), and I'm well into the schematic redesign for the next rev of the PCB (planned around the end of this month - pre-production version).

Cheers -

Mark
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #141 on: May 25, 2014, 07:12:32 am »
Hi EEVbloggers!

Heading into the last week on Kickstarter for tiq! tiq is behind goal, so if you're not already a backer, and you'd like to help get this new kind of high-performance and time-saving tool into the world, please head over to Kickstarter! EEVbloggers make up most of the support received so far, and with >5500 views on this forum, and >50 views per day, I know we can do it! Thanks to all.

Just posted a project update detailing pre-production enhancements that I've been working on over the last month, largely driven by inputs received right here on this forum - thanks again to faithful EEVblog supporters! These changes include: new curvier case, new power and ground connectors, new, replaceable probe tips - and compatibility with a wide range of commercially available probe tips. Some pics attached (note the display is a mock-up since this rev of the case was sent off for 3D printing before the display choice was locked in - Shapeways are printing the case with the final cutout now!).

For the full update, please visit:

http://kck.st/1h0sYvv

Cheers -

Mark
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 07:16:22 am by markhen »
 

Offline fcb

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #142 on: May 25, 2014, 07:17:39 am »
Thanks for the update Mark.

Are you going to do a more in-depth video showing the tiq in use?
Also, can you confirm that the USB port can be used to update the firmware in the tiq?
 

Offline Kean

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #143 on: May 25, 2014, 01:15:32 pm »
It doesn't look like this will get funded now, and I think the reason is the price. If you can get it down to about half I think a lot more people would go for it.
While the price may be a factor in getting more backers, I don't think it is at all unreasonable.  A much simpler logic probe from DigiKey with a fraction of the functionality is $40, and I suspect the BOM/tooling/assembly costs are significant portion of the goal, with little room for the improvements recently made.
To my mind, the problem is limited use case, and limited audience.  A handheld instrument that needs an external power source doesn't give much benefit over equipment many people already have.  If you're tied to your bench, the kind of people who are likely to use this also probably have a 'scope/logic analyser/multimeter/etc available.  Yes, a portable USB power pack can be had cheap, but it "feels" clumsy.
Obviously it is more complicated than this, but I do think that is a significant factor based on myself and reading the earlier comments.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #144 on: May 25, 2014, 08:39:36 pm »
Quote
also probably have a 'scope/logic analyser/multimeter/etc available.

Indeed. But the USP of this is that you don't have to look up to read the screen, or move your hands to adjust some knob. IME of probing, the most likely time to slip and short some pin is when you look away to see what the scope/meter/etc is saying.
 

Offline fcb

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #145 on: May 25, 2014, 08:57:45 pm »
To my mind, the problem is limited use case, and limited audience.  A handheld instrument that needs an external power source doesn't give much benefit over equipment many people already have.  If you're tied to your bench, the kind of people who are likely to use this also probably have a 'scope/logic analyser/multimeter/etc available.  Yes, a portable USB power pack can be had cheap, but it "feels" clumsy.
Obviously it is more complicated than this, but I do think that is a significant factor based on myself and reading the earlier comments.
I think you are bang on Kean.  This is a niche instrument and the lack of internal power does further limit the use case, also the need for left and right handed versions can't help. Price doesn't bother me really as I can see the benefit and it won't be a 'toy'.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #146 on: May 25, 2014, 09:11:48 pm »
But the USP of this is that you don't have to look up to read the screen, or move your hands to adjust some knob.
Despite what I said above, I do see a a use case for it for just these reasons.  I'd be very happy to have one on my bench, and decided to back the project a while ago even though I already have a Logic Dart and many logic probes.
If it doesn't reach the goal on KS, hopefully Mark will still work out a way to get the PCBs made up and let us 3D print our own enclosures.  Even better if he can work on open sourcing it (e.g. releasing the schematic and what he can of the PSoC config/code under something like CC BY-NC).
 

Offline lewis

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #147 on: May 26, 2014, 03:07:38 am »
That new case is much better, I love the symmetry and the curvy sides. And the 4mm compatible probe tips.

Speaking of symmetry, this gives you a great opportunity to combine the left-handed and right-handed versions into the same product. Make some holes in the 'other' side of the box for the switches and away you go. Now you only need one box. While you're at it, make some space on the PCB for the 'other' switches and use custom upside-down characters to update the LCD for the flipped version. Now you only need one PCB. Hell, if you're doing all this, permanently add some buttons on the other side of the probe all the time and have a menu option to determine which 'hand' the probe is.

This way the probe can be used by those, like me, who use probes ambidextrously. And you can see the advantages in terms of production cost reduction.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 03:10:08 am by lewis »
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Offline all_repair

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #148 on: May 28, 2014, 05:01:35 am »
I hope Mark would not be dishearted if the target is not hit.  Please push on ver 2.0 with internal power source.  It maybe a good thing that the funding is not hit, the money on the casing mold might have been wasted if the case could not be used beyond the current design.  Frankly, the current design is at pre Alpha state to me.  I hope Mark can come back with a post Beta design that People wanted. 
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: tiq probe - on KickStarter through June 1st!
« Reply #149 on: May 28, 2014, 05:55:00 am »
the money on the casing mold might have been wasted

This is on of the things I didn't understand about this project. Small quantity, but own custom, injection molded enclosure?  :wtf:

Buy them off-the-shelf http://www.teko.it/it/prodotti/famiglia/AC/serie/29


Get it machined and fit the electronic to the case (yes, this is the second time today that I write this on the forum and use teko as an example).

A few years ago I used the LP1 for a small series of special-purpose probes. We had to shell out some extra money, because the tips that came with the enclosures were all corroded.  :-- And we didn't recognize in advance that a rectangular cable strain relieve was the best way to get the cable out. But it was easy to get them machined, because they have a separate flat "front panel" plate. And all in all it was still much cheaper than getting custom enclosures molded.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 06:04:32 am by Bored@Work »
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