Author Topic: DT features  (Read 5763 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline electrolust

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
  • Country: us
DT features
« on: November 20, 2015, 12:14:52 pm »
I really like the way diptrace works in schematic, with footprints completely disconnected from the part.  The footprint and schematic symbols are completely separate libraries, not intimately connected like in Eagle.

And I like the BOM feature and relatively easy to add supporting attributes (eg vendor PN).  The weakest aspect here is when selecting similar parts to apply attributes, there doesn't seem to be an option to select similar by refdes&&value.

What other software works similarly?  My survey of the various options under $1000 is, none of them.  Above $1000 I would be curious but it's out of my price range.

I wish diptrace had net flags in addition to the net name labels.  Eagle has them but pretty sucky that they are not directional so not too much better.
 

Offline John Coloccia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1199
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2015, 12:25:15 am »
As far as I know, there is nothing under $1000 that works as well or as easily as Diptrace for general work. The problems with Diptrace have to do with crazy library management/propagation (and lack of it), craziness with their grid precision, craziness importing board shapes, lack of transparency when working on multi-layer boards, and a long list of other little things. They all add up to make it a poor choice for a pro doing any sort of complex work in a real engineering environment.

But for hobbyists, and also for pros such as myself that are making mostly simple boards, I doubt you'll find anything more productive. Certainly, component and pattern creation is simpler than anything else I've seen, even though the library management itself is, more or less, amateurish and crappy.
 

Offline electrolust

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2015, 06:52:37 am »
Proteus seems close.
 

Offline John Coloccia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1199
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2015, 07:06:23 am »
Proteus is amateurish until you get to Level 2 for $1000. No cutouts, only full board power planes and no 3D board output is a complete non-starter. I wouldn't take anything under that for free. See, that's the thing. There's better out there, but if you can deal with some really dumb design decisions and a seeming complete lack of understanding what a pros need in their environment, I've yet to see anything touch DipTrace under $1000.

I'm going to have to check out their demo. I'd love to dump DipTrace. I'd much rather pay $1000 for a package that works properly than have to upgrade DipTrace and throw more money at it. I seem to recall not liking it for some reason, but that was a couple of years ago. Maybe I'll change my mind.
 

Offline electrolust

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2015, 07:34:23 am »
Well the Proteus library management looks to be even worse than DipTrace.  Looks like they took a page out of Altium's book and focused on "high value" features rather than core features.  (Simulation, in Proteus' case.)

Having a hard time wrapping my head around Proteus' UI and just general working model (eg no distinct library editor, you just make parts on PCB page and it is awkward) so I doubt it's the tool for me, but it's still early in the process.  Sucks that one has to spend so much time evaluating these packages to decide for/against.

Back to DipTrace, is there a way to change the pan/zoom behavior?  I need the mouse wheel to pan otherwise it's a complete non-starter for me.
 

Offline steve_w

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • Country: au
Re: DT features
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 12:19:24 am »
Hey Electrolust,

I'm no expert but I dont think the scroll wheel will perform the pan function.  The release notes for version 2.4 say you can pan with the scroll wheel in the print view but that not much use in schematic or PCB layout.

I agree with your assessment and would buy diptrace if I did PCBs professionally but I'm semi retired so I will just play for the time being.

Ki Cad may offer that functionality, personally I have invested too much in diptrace to bother changing.

The other point is that there are hardly any comments on diptrace in the forum, I know a lot of guys use it and interpret that as there aren't many things wrong with it for simple boards or hobby use.  When I check the othere forums there are always a lot of questions or bitches about functionality perhaps that because diptrace just works ?

regards

Steve W
So long and thanks for all the fish
 

Offline Warhawk

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Country: 00
    • Personal resume
Re: DT features
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 12:30:00 am »
I really like the way diptrace works in schematic, with footprints completely disconnected from the part.  The footprint and schematic symbols are completely separate libraries, not intimately connected like in Eagle.

Wait until you need to update a bug in a library...
http://www.diptrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10332

Offline kuromaku

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2016, 02:58:48 pm »
perhaps that because diptrace just works ?

In my experience, it "just works" for simple and quick things that I'm not going to build a bunch of. If things are of moderate complexity and require anything like controlled impedance, mechanical stuff, or has the potential for tricky routing, I'm reaching for Allegro, but most of what I work on are simple demo boards with a couple MCUs and not more than a handful of ICs that the client needs a few of to show off at a tradeshow or a meeting. In that case, Diptrace is great for banging out a design without doing "proper" manufacturing output in a small amount of time.
 

Offline kuromaku

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2016, 03:02:14 pm »

Wait until you need to update a bug in a library...
http://www.diptrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10332

I'm not sure what "reassigning all components manually" means, but after saving your pattern, go to your component library, select the component, attach the updated pattern, save the component library. Go to the schematic, right-click on one of the components already placed, select Update from Library, save. Go to Layout, Ctrl-Shift-U to update from schematic, done.
 

Offline BloodyCactus

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 460
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 11:41:49 am »
I'm not sure what "reassigning all components manually" means, but after saving your pattern, go to your component library, select the component, attach the updated pattern, save the component library. Go to the schematic, right-click on one of the components already placed, select Update from Library, save. Go to Layout, Ctrl-Shift-U to update from schematic, done.

great. you just did one part in one schematic. so next time you open a different schematic you remember which part you updated? maybe should just select each one and do manual update from library on it because not sure what current changes have been applied...

it would be nice if, when a schematic opened diptrace said 'oh, these parts are different from the library they were taken from, the library is newer. should I update {changed parts list} checkbox lsit....'

 

Offline John Coloccia

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1199
  • Country: us
Re: DT features
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 02:19:10 am »
And because the component attaches to the schematic via pin number (and it will change the pin number if you try and make it not match), there's no way to replace one JFet with another, for example, where the pins are numbered differently because it will completely rewire your entire schematic when you do it. There's some definite craziness in there.

It's to the point that moving forward, all new projects will have their own library and that will be that. It's impossible to figure out what component is used on what project.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf