And Todays Audiophool Product is................

[German_EE]

Cable Elevators

http://www.reddragonaudio.com/collections/cable-elevators/products/esd-xl-cable-elevators

" a spectacular tweak providing immediate benefits by removing a layer of grunge that rides the entire musical signal. Bass is tightened up, the midrange is smoother and the top end more pristine."

Just by lifting your cables off the floor 

[singapol]

To be fair have you listened or tried but I suspect because of your biases, no. In acoustics there is such term
called psycho acoutics this is not wishful thinking but the way the brain and ear interacts. There are papers on the subject. It is a fact that everything or object/element in this universe has a natural resonance even the planet earth has one it's called the Shumann resonance of late it is about 7 hertz. to pooh pooh anything
as audiophool is being closed or narrow minded. There are some things that cannot be scientifically explained currently although there is snake oil out there.

 Let's take a real world example, compare the sound of a wood violin with an electronic one made of metal and acrylic or a wood piano with an electronic one/synthesiser. It should be obvious. Why do violin players
sought after hundreds of years old violin made by Stradivari or  Guarnari? There are serious papers on this too. Even all the modern scientific instruments for analysis of these violin's acoustic properties NO one to date has manage to replicate the sound of the famous ancient luthiers (musical instrument craftsman). Is it just due to aging like fine wine or something esle? There is even speculation that the trees from a certain mountainous region in Italy that are transported down and then subsequently floated down in the sea ways to the place of trading due to this salt water emersion certain
chemical reaction took place and there are gold elements embedded in the wood fibres which could account for the specially sound quality and also the secret way the wood is being dried. All this even makes for the tendency to dismiss discoveries as make believe but you are entitled to your opinions.

PS: If you have the chance go visit the german Steinway piano company you will be surprised as to their ways of choosing the wood for their pianos. If music be the food of life play on. 

[Kilrah]

 

Wood differences and differences between a wood instrument and an electronic "recreation" of it are obvious.

Electricity however doesn't flow differently in a cable when it's 3cm above the floor. 

[rsjsouza]

This will be interesting...

You can surely have wood or mechanical design that influences the sound, but the product the OP mentioned is nothing but an overpriced cable holder. So yes, in this particular case it is intended to make an audio fanatic to be fooled into thinking this will improve its sound - the very definition of an audiophool product.

[ebclr]

It's a clear scam A very easy way to burn 149 USD with no tangible benefice

[janoc]

Singapol, a wall of text, but nothing really to the topic, I am afraid.

And yes, there is a scientific name for the effect - it is called a placebo everywhere else.

[singapol]

Wood differences and differences between a wood instrument and an electronic "recreation" of it are obvious.

Electricity however doesn't flow differently in a cable when it's 3cm above the floor. 

Tell that to Albert Einstein "Spooky action at a distance". He was also a violin player.
This is strange but true.

The spooky evidence:
http://www.nist.gov/pml/div686/20151105loophole.cfm

http://www.space.com/31562-weird-universe-revealed-in-quantum-entanglement-breakthrough.html

[BravoV]

So singapol, what say you on the product mentioned in the 1st post ? Please, that particular product only, don't drift the subject to wood, einstein etc.

Again, just that cable elevator only.

[Kilrah]

Tell that to Albert Einstein "Spooky action at a distance". He was also a violin player.

How off topic is that?

In acoustics there is such term called psycho acoutics

this is not wishful thinking but the way the brain and ear interacts. There are papers on the subject. It is a fact that everything or object/element in this universe has a natural resonance even the planet earth has one it's called the Shumann resonance of late it is about 7 hertz.

So just like with this thing we could come up with any kind of bullshit "product", write some completely made up "esoteric sounding explanation" for it and could unload you of $150 for a $2 piece of foam because you believe so strongly that this random description relates to something real, then because you have to live up to your beliefs you'll be 100% certain it made a difference... i.e congrats, you're a perfect example of an audiophool 

[Muttley Snickers]

They have succeeded in creating just another trip hazard, a clear example that some people should not be elevated but hung instead.

 

[wblock]

Pretty sure I saw a PBS show years ago where they did manage to duplicate the sound of Stradivarius violins.  As I recall, it was the finish, varnish or something.

The thing is, the way this was done was with scientific tests and measurements.

[helius]

"psychoacoustics" does not mean what it has been purported to mean in this thread.
It is the science of the perception of sound, including frequency masking and stereo perception. Psychoacoustics is what makes lossy audio compression possible, as well as the equal perception of tones at different sound pressure levels for reproduced sound (why your stereo has a "loudness" control)
It has absolutely nothing to do with snake oil bullshit like cable elevators, magic pebbles, etc

[andersm]

Why do violin players sought after hundreds of years old violin made by Stradivari or  Guarnari?

Because they're famous. A modern, well-made violin sounds just as good.

[mcinque]

Singapol, if any improvement in sound can be perceived (by a measuring instrument or by a "double blind" hearing test), it's real. Otherwise it's not.
Thinking that a 3cm cable elevator can improve the sound is nonsense.

[German_EE]

At nearly sixty my hearing is OK but nothing spectacular, but I did at one point meet someone who had AMAZING hearing. She was a violinist in the Budapest Radio Orchestra and she was able to tell the difference between a Stradivarius and a modern instrument by ear, every time. Could I hear it? Hell no, and that's after listening to classical music all my life.

A quick example of how good her hearing was. One evening we were listening to a CD of Beethoven's 5th and suddenly she got up, paused the CD, and then shifted it back ten seconds or so. Can you hear the sneeze she asked? I'd been listening to that CD since 1985, it was one of the first CDs that I bought, and I had never heard that orchestra member sneeze, but she did.

I can guarantee that she would not hear the difference between a cable on the floor and a cable elevated 3cm above it. The varnish and the wood used to make a Stradivarius are things that make a measurable difference on an audio spectrum analyzer and some (but not all) can hear the difference, even in a double blind test. Elevating a cable above the floor to improve the sound makes no electrical difference to the signal and thus is an audiophool product.

One final thing, I wired up her stereo system using 6mm shower cable to connect the speakers and she thought that it was wonderful, even though the cables were on the floor.

[amyk]

Elevating a cable above the floor to improve the sound makes no electrical difference to the signal and thus is an audiophool product.

It makes no audible difference, which is what really matters here. I'm sure it might have some very slight effect on very high frequency signals... anyone who knows microwave/RF voodoo care to comment?

[CatalinaWOW]

There are some plausible physics for this to make a difference in some situations.  For example a ferro-magnetic floor, poorly attached to the sub-floor so that it rattled under foot traffic.  The varying inductance as the cable bounced on the floor could result in intermodulation and other tones that could be heard by some golden ears.

Of course most of the rest of us would be hearing the rattle of the floor directly, and would fix that first if we had to listen to our music there.  Which would then make these devices worthless.   Same kind of logic applies to other plausible physics explanations.  Puts these cable elevators in the audiophool class for me.

[Brumby]

"psychoacoustics" does not mean what it has been purported to mean in this thread.

Maybe they meant "psycho acoustics"?

[R005T3r]

Honestly, I'd initially thought that it was a fool fish or some kind of joke... Then I saw "buy"... 

[madires]

"psychoacoustics" does not mean what it has been purported to mean in this thread.
It is the science of the perception of sound, including frequency masking and stereo perception. Psychoacoustics is what makes lossy audio compression possible, as well as the equal perception of tones at different sound pressure levels for reproduced sound (why your stereo has a "loudness" control)
It has absolutely nothing to do with snake oil bullshit like cable elevators, magic pebbles, etc

Exactly! That's why there's dB(A).

[station240]

Rather expensive for a block of foam with a V cut out of it.
The only slight benefit this could possibly have, is to prevent vibration transfer between the floor and speaker cabinet via the cable. But then who cares if the floor rattles a bit, the whole point of speakers is to rattle floorboards. 

Given the average Audiophool has 100% OFC copper, 1million strand count, ultraflexable cables, I fail to see how much vibration could be transferred anyway.
Lets be honest, this is a product for idiots that don't want their overpriced cable getting dirt and dust on it.

[djQUAN]

The advantage I could see with it is that the uber expensive audiophool cable is lifted off the floor so it does not get dirty, cosmetic wise.

[daqq]

Do they have ones for my optical cables?

[retrolefty]

Cable Elevators

http://www.reddragonaudio.com/collections/cable-elevators/products/esd-xl-cable-elevators

" a spectacular tweak providing immediate benefits by removing a layer of grunge that rides the entire musical signal. Bass is tightened up, the midrange is smoother and the top end more pristine."

Just by lifting your cables off the floor 

 I'm surprised that it doesn't also improve the 'sound stage' effect. Maybe that will be on the upgrade map? 

[rdl]

There was a time years ago, when I was a borderline audiophool. I have a pair of Audioquest speaker wires and some fancy RCA cables, but I bought bottom of the line and I wanted them mainly for the looks. I never did hear any actual improvement in the sound nor did I expect to.

I first saw "elevators" for wires being sold back in the 90s and I knew even then that they were pretty useless. The ones I remember were made of wood and not terribly expensive though. Of course 10 for $150 isn't all that ridiculous considering there are cables that run thousands of $$$ per meter.

[jh15]

Shouldn't they be a half wavelength over the floor? I would imagine if you want your bass to propagate predictably. Now what is the wavelength of 20 HZ hehe.

As for the violinist, she is a performer, and am sure she doesn't like coughing sneezing and hacking during the quiet parts of her solo. So is 'tuned' to it.

Unless I was using the best of tape recorders , I always could hear (or imagine to hear) flutter in piano or similar pieces. The invention of CDs was a boon to me.

Unless I use the finest of CD players, I  can always  hear jitter(just kidding)

[george.b]

Tell that to Albert Einstein "Spooky action at a distance". He was also a violin player.
This is strange but true.

The spooky evidence:
http://www.nist.gov/pml/div686/20151105loophole.cfm

http://www.space.com/31562-weird-universe-revealed-in-quantum-entanglement-breakthrough.html

Why, if the cable is quantum entangled to the floor, then the cable elevator won't help   

[Halcyon]

I'm annoyed I didn't think of this myself.

[ruffy91]

Of course 10 for $150 isn't all that ridiculous considering there are cables that run thousands of $$$ per meter.

When I buy cables for several hundred $/meter i expect them to come with connectors like these or equivalent:

[Halcyon]

Of course 10 for $150 isn't all that ridiculous considering there are cables that run thousands of $$$ per meter.

When I buy cables for several hundred $/meter i expect them to come with connectors like these or equivalent:

What's wrong with the Direct Neural Interface from The Matrix? Ultra-high bandwidth through a thin coaxial cable.

[Urs42]

My Navibot is trying to eat all my cables, those cable elevators could be THE solution ;-)

[mcinque]

Rather expensive for a block of foam with a V cut out of it.

It's made of DARK MATTER. Something that physics has prove only in theory. And they have made that foam with it!

I'm sure it might have some very slight effect on very high frequency signals... anyone who knows microwave/RF voodoo care to comment?

Without being a RF engineer: of course, expecially depending on the scenario, floor material and substrate etc.. With a spectrum analyzer and a TG connected you can see how much a little position change in an unshielded cable can affect high frequencies.

But considering that our hearing bandwidth is very limited (20-20KHz at best) I don't think this should even take in consideration.

[CJay]

Duh, obvious improvements to  be made by raising the cable above the noise floor...

 

[Gyro]

Maybe time for some lateral thinking... 

https://www.anixter.com/en_us/products/Manufacturers/DRAKA-ELEVATOR-CABLES/c/DRAKA%20ELEVATOR%20CABLES?q=%3Arelevance%3AallAnixterGroups%3Aname%3DElectrical+Wire+and+Cable%7Ccode%3DGROUP_EW%7Clevel%3DG%7Cparent%3D%5BCATEGORY_01%5D&text=&op=

[XOIIO]

Damn, the staff approves reviews, I wrote one about how it was great because I could use a teeny tiny vacuum without lifting the cables instead of having to lift them up to use a full sized one, but that's never going to go through.

[djQUAN]

Mike has a low cost version from a while back.

http://electricstuff.co.uk/marxgen.htm

[Tinkerer]

Why do violin players sought after hundreds of years old violin made by Stradivari or  Guarnari?

Because they're famous. A modern, well-made violin sounds just as good.

Actually there was a study done that attributed the sound to the properties of the wood itself. It was made with wood from trees that had very thin growth rings, thus altering the acoustic properties. Growth rings due to the 'extreme' period cold that occurred back then.
I dont know how valid that is but may or may not be.

[apis]

Why do violin players sought after hundreds of years old violin made by Stradivari or  Guarnari?

Because they're famous. A modern, well-made violin sounds just as good.

Actually there was a study done that attributed the sound to the properties of the wood itself. It was made with wood from trees that had very thin growth rings, thus altering the acoustic properties. Growth rings due to the 'extreme' period cold that occurred back then.
I dont know how valid that is but may or may not be.

They have also made blind test where an experienced audience wasn't allowed to see the instrument and then asked which they preferred and naturally there was no correlation with the hyped famous brands. (I.e. old high-end brand compared to modern high-end model.)

[HP-ILnerd]

Get a load of the description of this one.  Looks like the wankery let the magic smoke out of google translate.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LSPX-S1-SONY-Bluetooth-Enabled-Glass-Sound-Speaker-13W-Relax-Space-JAPAN-F-S/272305953367

[rdl]

Sountina (sauntina) is Sony's original Speaker drive technology to produce sound wave. Because the vibration is handed down to the whole organic glass side to every corner, it is cylindrical sound source, and there is little decrement of sound at away distance, and all directions can open clear sound.

Baloney. I had a cheap Zenith "Allegro" stereo back in the 70s that had the same kind of cylindrical diffusers on its speakers. Only difference is they were on the top instead of the bottom. Cheaper too.

[cloudscapes]

I get a kick out of vinyl, own a couple pairs of quality headphones, and use a dedicated portable DAP

..and I'm terribly ashamed of being even remotely associated with audiophools like these. 

[Brumby]

Duh, obvious improvements to  be made by raising the cable above the noise floor...

 

Don't laugh too loud.

I can see a marketing angle on that which could strike a chord with an audiophool that has heard the term. but not understood it.

[helius]

Don't laugh too loud.

I can see a marketing angle on that which could strike a chord with an audiophool that has heard the term. but not understood it.

You say that as if it's not the single strategy powering the audiophile industry!
Do consumers understand "jitter", "skin effect", "linearity", or a hundred other buzzwords? Who cares, they sure sound fancy!

[CJay]

Duh, obvious improvements to  be made by raising the cable above the noise floor...

 

Don't laugh too loud.

I can see a marketing angle on that which could strike a chord with an audiophool that has heard the term. but not understood it.

Audiophile signal transmission across long distance obviously requires greater separation and distance from the noise floor

http://www.choishine.com/Projects/giants.html

[German_EE]

10/10 for the link to the land of giants project, stuff like that needs more exposure.

[Refrigerator]

There's also a review for it.

Large and versatile cable elevators
These are large, easy to use cable elevators which can accommodate just about any size or shape of cable. If they have one slight problem it is that they are very light and, therefore, will fall over quite easily. Taping them down is a solution, but that can be something of an inconvenience. They do improve the sound when used to elevate speaker cables off the floor, relieving some "congestion" from the music and improving the clarity of the sound somewhat. Not earthshaking, but a nice addition.

[AmmoJammo]

I'm annoyed I didn't think of this myself.

you could make cable elevator elevators, to isolate the cable from the elevator, that may induce noise in to the cable 

[German_EE]

"If they have one slight problem it is that they are very light and, therefore, will fall over quite easily. Taping them down is a solution, "

Hang on, I missed that bit. If you tape an isolator down to the floor so that it cannot move wouldn't that affect the isolation?

[CJay]

Dip the audiophool in liquid nitrogen overnight, all perceived and psycho acoustic bollocks cease almost immediately

[Refrigerator]

"If they have one slight problem it is that they are very light and, therefore, will fall over quite easily. Taping them down is a solution, "

Hang on, I missed that bit. If you tape an isolator down to the floor so that it cannot move wouldn't that affect the isolation?

The molecular arrangement in the tape would totally ruin the sound !!!!!!! 

[Buriedcode]

To be fair have you listened or tried but I suspect because of your biases, no. In acoustics there is such term
called psycho acoutics this is not wishful thinking but the way the brain and ear interacts. There are papers on the subject. It is a fact that everything or object/element in this universe has a natural resonance even the planet earth has one it's called the Shumann resonance of late it is about 7 hertz. to pooh pooh anything
as audiophool is being closed or narrow minded. There are some things that cannot be scientifically explained currently although there is snake oil out there.

 Let's take a real world example, compare the sound of a wood violin with an electronic one made of metal and acrylic or a wood piano with an electronic one/synthesiser. It should be obvious. Why do violin players
sought after hundreds of years old violin made by Stradivari or  Guarnari? There are serious papers on this too. Even all the modern scientific instruments for analysis of these violin's acoustic properties NO one to date has manage to replicate the sound of the famous ancient luthiers (musical instrument craftsman). Is it just due to aging like fine wine or something esle? There is even speculation that the trees from a certain mountainous region in Italy that are transported down and then subsequently floated down in the sea ways to the place of trading due to this salt water emersion certain
chemical reaction took place and there are gold elements embedded in the wood fibres which could account for the specially sound quality and also the secret way the wood is being dried. All this even makes for the tendency to dismiss discoveries as make believe but you are entitled to your opinions.

PS: If you have the chance go visit the german Steinway piano company you will be surprised as to their ways of choosing the wood for their pianos. If music be the food of life play on. 

Jesus wept. I don't know where to start.  I think I'll leave the whole post in quote so people can re-read it.  Violin players, and many instrument players generally go for famous names because they are famous and expensive.  This also means others have looked after the instruments, so they are likely to be in good order.  As for sound..:
http://www.thestrad.com/cpt-latests/blind-tested-soloists-unable-to-tell-stradivarius-violins-from-modern-instruments/

Also, a misunderstanding of 'psycho acoustics', mixed in with words like 'resonance' doesn't help trying to convince others that raising a cable off the floor improves its electrical qualities.  Psycho-acoustics is very well understood (although no dobut, there is more to discover).  I'm sure you have listened to MP3's, or watched a DVD, or used a telephone - all of which use really quite complicated processing to abuse how our brains process sound in order to reduce bandwidth for high storage density and lower transmission bandwidth.

'Shumann resonance' is a generally seen as a red flag by many engineers.  Yes everything has resonance, insofar as a cavity, to physical dimensions.  But how does this relate to psycho acoustics?  Perhaps the brain automatically equalises sound to flatten out any natural resonance of the ear, but its generally all non-linear anyway.

And then you bring wine into this. Wine. I suppose your point is, we all have our opinions, and experience things differently, we see, hear, and taste differently and there is no real way to know exactly what others sense.  But other than that, god knows what you're on about.

Gold in wood makes it 'sound' better? Why would gold make it better? why not chocolate, or rat droppings?  Is it because gold is seen as valuable, and therefore must make everything 'better' in some grossly subjective way?   I have in fact played on a steinway (was given 10 minutes on it!) and it sounded beautiful.  As I would expect seeing as it costs so much.  But I suspect they are choosy about the wood they use because nature doesn't have quality control to the specifications of piano makers, and their customers expect them to have some strict materials selection if they are going to charge as much as they do.

I really shouldn't have seen this thread as it just makes me look like a ranty mcrantface :/

Edit: I fell for it didn't I? it was a troll post. Thank god I'm not a fish, I would not survive long.

[Greg Robinson]

Don't think this has been posted before: REV33.

And here's what I guess they think passes for a white-paper.

"Hear your music. Experience less ear-fatigue."
"REV33 cleans noise and distortion without ever processing your music."
"Patent Pending Technology"
"Designed by electrical engineers with a combined 50 years of experience, the REV33 currently has 6 patents pending towards its innovative technology. Depending on the headphones or earbuds being used, REV33 can provide a peak improvement the signal to noise ratio by up to 12 dB."

"Music takes an electrical path to your ears.
An electrical signal travels from the audio source through a system of cables to your headphones.  The speakers inside your headphones convert the electrical signal into vibrations that are heard by our ears as acoustic energy or audible sound."

"While your speakers are busy converting electrical signals into acoustic energy, they are being hit by sound waves and unwanted electrical energy coming from other sources.
These external sound waves and electrical energy causes the speakers to vibrate and create an unwanted electrical signal that travels all the way back through the circuit. This creates a layer of noise and distortion that lies on top of the original signal."

"REV33 utilizes proprietary technologies to identify and isolate unwanted electrical signals as they move through the circuit.
The REV33 is a passive device that sits inline between your audio source and headphones. With both a forward and reverse transfer function, REV33 allows music content sourced by the amplifier to pass unaltered to the driver but resists the flow of unwanted current from your headphones back into the audio circuit."

"Free from unwanted noise and distortion, you can hear your true sound with unsurpassed clarity.
When noise and distortion are managed, there is a dramatic increase in sonic clarity coupled with a reduction in symptoms of ear-fatigue, even in the most dynamic of performance environments"

[R005T3r]

Not to be a dick, but Why are you willing to pay with such things, when you can get:
1. decent pair of headphones
2. decent audio board
3. audio repair suite like Audition or Rx3?

You will have set up your lab and you are good to go. If you want you can also buy an audio test sutie and keep your gear calibrated.I hardly doubt you are going to pay more than a stereo +speaker audiophool grade equipment...

[Greg Robinson]

Not to be a dick, but Why are you willing to pay with such things, when you can get:
1. decent pair of headphones
2. decent audio board
3. audio repair suite like Audition or Rx3?

You will have set up your lab and you are good to go. If you want you can also buy an audio test sutie and keep your gear calibrated.I hardly doubt you are going to pay more than a stereo +speaker audiophool grade equipment...

Huh?
Sorry, may be a language barrier, but this is a thread poking fun at audiophool products, I posted a link to an audiophool product in order to mock it, and you seem to have misunderstood that I'm the proud owner of one, and mock me as an audiophool? No, I'M the one doing the mocking here, thankyouverymuch!

[rrinker]

 This one HAS to work  they have professional musicians endorsing it! 

[helius]

You can easily detect bullshit by red flags, such as a description of a phenomenon that would apply even more generally than its context implies. The expression that's used is that "the argument proves too much".

"While your speakers are busy converting electrical signals into acoustic energy, they are being hit by sound waves and unwanted electrical energy coming from other sources.
These external sound waves and electrical energy causes the speakers to vibrate and create an unwanted electrical signal that travels all the way back through the circuit. This creates a layer of noise and distortion that lies on top of the original signal."

Just like every transmitting antenna also receives radio waves. (The phenomenon described applies to any radiator.) Or just like every LED also receives light waves. Does this mean you need "proprietary technologies" to transmit wireless data without "unwanted electrical signals"? That sounds like a big deal. Why aren't these inventors pitching their breakthrough to Broadcom or Qualcom, but only to a few clueless audiophiles? Oh wait.

In actual practice, the amplifier has a high damping factor and such received signals do not significantly affect its operation.

[TheBay]

I put this on here a couple of years ago, but this still takes the biscuit!
http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html

[edy]

Let's *assume* raising cables off the ground improves the sound quality, for argument's sake (even though most of us think it's all BS).... Why would we pay $150 for these "risers" when we can get a bunch of plastic or wood blocks with grooves in it and do it yourself? For a fraction of the cost Where does it end? $300? $500? $1000?

If someone believes raising cables off the ground does something, then I should invent a device that "cleans up the electromagnetic spectrum at Bluetooth frequencies" to help improve the sound in a room when people use a wireless Bluetooth headphone set. What do you think? I'll make the device out of wood and attach gold-colored antennas and a bunch of blue blinky lights, it will look AWESOME! 

[rrinker]

 Because if you just use plain ordinary items to lift the cables off the floor, they will still be subject to induced oscillations at audio frequencies. Only the special $150 each support towers have the proper acoustical insulation properties to clean up the sound signals in your speaker wires. Of course if you don't use the pure copper oxygen free unidirectional speaker cables, you're just wasting your money on the cable towers.

[tatus1969]

unidirectional speaker cables

buuuahahaaa 
guys be careful. you are creating so many business ideas for the audiophool industry and if they read that here they will make all the money

[rdl]

unidirectional speaker cables

I'm pretty sure you can already buy them. As a matter of fact, I think they've been around for quite a while. I'm not sure audiofools even believe it makes a difference though.

[raptor1956]

If there's anything good about the decline in the audio business it is that there is less money going to hucksters.  But they will always take there cut as there IS a sucker born every second.

Perhaps as the younger generation that have grown up listening to low bit rate mp3's etc and quite happy doing so the hucksters will have to find a new market for there talents.  If you can't tell the difference between low/moderate bit rate lossy compressed music then you probably won't be in the market for a better audio system and maybe that is where this story ends...


Brian

[tatus1969]

unidirectional speaker cables

I'm pretty sure you can already buy them. As a matter of fact, I think they've been around for quite a while. I'm not sure audiofools even believe it makes a difference though.

shhh, dont disclose this to any electron around. They might spread their word, and at the end of the day one of the ones working in a serious audiophile's directional cable, being forced going the wrong way half of the time, will get irritated and mess up the music experience. Bloody amps not keeping up with technology and still creating AC at their outputs.

[Groucho2005]

While your speakers are busy converting electrical signals into acoustic energy, they are being hit by sound waves and unwanted electrical energy coming from other sources.
These external sound waves and electrical energy causes the speakers to vibrate and create an unwanted electrical signal that travels all the way back through the circuit. This creates a layer of noise and distortion that lies on top of the original signal.

Unbelievable bullshit. A speaker is a reactive load, if you feed a signal, it kicks back to the amplifier like a mule. This reactive energy is several orders of magnitude higher that any signals it may pick up from "other sources" and is actually one of the main challenges for amplifier designers.

[CJay]

If there's anything good about the decline in the audio business it is that there is less money going to hucksters.  But they will always take there cut as there IS a sucker born every second.

Perhaps as the younger generation that have grown up listening to low bit rate mp3's etc and quite happy doing so the hucksters will have to find a new market for there talents.  If you can't tell the difference between low/moderate bit rate lossy compressed music then you probably won't be in the market for a better audio system and maybe that is where this story ends...


Brian

Nope, the technology and BS evolves to meet the demands of the new market. See the beginnings of a whole new area here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/639945/can-the-read-speed-of-micro-sd-effect-audio-quality

and Dave's take:

[tatus1969]

If there's anything good about the decline in the audio business it is that there is less money going to hucksters.  But they will always take there cut as there IS a sucker born every second.

Perhaps as the younger generation that have grown up listening to low bit rate mp3's etc and quite happy doing so the hucksters will have to find a new market for there talents.  If you can't tell the difference between low/moderate bit rate lossy compressed music then you probably won't be in the market for a better audio system and maybe that is where this story ends...


Brian

another business opportunity (jeh should it be simple like this?): a low-qual-compression-artefacts sound processor that you can add to your $10k pro audio gear for that warm comfort feeling of recognition. Optionally available a iOs/Android app for $9,99/month.

[Bud]

"Designed by electrical engineers with a combined 50 years of experience

You cannot "combine" experience. This statement alone makes no sense whatsoever.

[Kilrah]

You cannot "combine" experience. This statement alone makes no sense whatsoever.

While the wording may be bad, you certainly can.

A guy with 25 years of experience in analog design and another with 25 years in digital design will certainly be able to do better work quicker than either of them would when working on a system combining analog and digital systems.

The analog guy would be dabbling at the digital part making all the mistakes when the digital guy would in a glance be able to say "your problem's there, do that".

[rrinker]

 Not sure if I've seen unidirectional speaker cables - now there's an idea - not only unidirectional speaker cables, but different materials for the two conductors. One for enhancing the flow of electrons, the other for enhancing the flow of positive charges, so you definitely have to hook them up the right way round. Throw in some physics terminology, maybe mention that research done at the LHC has proven this effect, boom, instant sales of $25k per meter speaker cables.

 However - there definitely is a unidirectional audiophool ETHERNET cable. Might have been included in this thread even. Insanely expensive, of course, and it has directional arrows on it. I reject it outright as I demand that my ACK packets have the same high quality as my data packets!

[rdl]

unidirectional speaker cables

My bad. I was remembering interconnects. I think the directional part has to do with the shield only being grounded at one end.

Example:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQTORR

[tatus1969]

Not sure if I've seen unidirectional speaker cables - now there's an idea - not only unidirectional speaker cables, but different materials for the two conductors. One for enhancing the flow of electrons, the other for enhancing the flow of positive charges, so you definitely have to hook them up the right way round. Throw in some physics terminology, maybe mention that research done at the LHC has proven this effect, boom, instant sales of $25k per meter speaker cables.

 However - there definitely is a unidirectional audiophool ETHERNET cable. Might have been included in this thread even. Insanely expensive, of course, and it has directional arrows on it. I reject it outright as I demand that my ACK packets have the same high quality as my data packets!

great! almost as good as low jitter audio grade SD cards   

[tatus1969]

unidirectional speaker cables

My bad. I was remembering interconnects. I think the directional part has to do with the shield only being grounded at one end.

Example:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AQTORR

these are line level connects, you need to have the shield connected at both sides, or you would completely lose ground reference. Another audio phooling. High end RCA is stupid anyway in my opinion, when there is hum-free differential signaling available, or even better digital links.

[rdl]

these are line level connects, you need to have the shield connected at both sides, or you would completely lose ground reference. Another audio phooling. High end RCA is stupid anyway in my opinion, when there is hum-free differential signaling available, or even better digital links.

Maybe. I am not an audiophool, nor am I an expert in making fun of them.
For those particular cables (with directional arrows) they state that the signal ground and shield ground are separate.

[NiHaoMike]

these are line level connects, you need to have the shield connected at both sides, or you would completely lose ground reference. Another audio phooling. High end RCA is stupid anyway in my opinion, when there is hum-free differential signaling available, or even better digital links.

Maybe. I am not an audiophool, nor am I an expert in making fun of them.
For those particular cables (with directional arrows) they state that the signal ground and shield ground are separate.

True directional cables have multiple layers of shielding. The inner layer is connected at both ends and the outer layer connected to whatever end is less sensitive to noise, usually the source. The main exceptions are sources that do not have a direct connection to ground such as microphones and guitars.

[Red Squirrel]

Over 100 bucks for pieces of foam.    To think I throw that stuff in the recycling when I get a new TV, I did not realize it was for the cables!

[grifftech]

Well I think it is a good idea to keep the cables from your audio source to your amp away from mains cables.

[tatus1969]

these are line level connects, you need to have the shield connected at both sides, or you would completely lose ground reference. Another audio phooling. High end RCA is stupid anyway in my opinion, when there is hum-free differential signaling available, or even better digital links.

Maybe. I am not an audiophool, nor am I an expert in making fun of them.
For those particular cables (with directional arrows) they state that the signal ground and shield ground are separate.

True directional cables have multiple layers of shielding. The inner layer is connected at both ends and the outer layer connected to whatever end is less sensitive to noise, usually the source. The main exceptions are sources that do not have a direct connection to ground such as microphones and guitars.

Whew, didn't know that. What an effort (and still not solving ground loops and hum), instead of using a simple shielded twisted pair cable and differential signaling. *plop* next business idea popping up. We could even use correct wave impedance termination and sell them KillAReflection[tm] as an extra. They don't need to know that this is pretty irrelevant for audio frequencies

[tatus1969]

Well I think it is a good idea to keep the cables from your audio source to your amp away from mains cables.

Yeah, shielding helps so much against H fields. Or do they use Permalloy there? *pop* was that the next business opportunity that I just heard popping up?

Sorry, but can't just keep shaking my heads here...

[Bicurico]

While I do agree that there is a lot of ridiculous stuff sold in the audiophile world, not everything is totally stupid.

I have had the priviledge to spend some time on listening sessions with audiophile equipment in propper rooms.

I too came with the preconceived idea that 10.000 Euro speakers are bullshit, as well as 5.000 Euro valve amplifiers.

To make it short: for the first time I HEARD how bad an ipod sounds, when connected to a propper audio equipment. I had brought it along with "my" songs and after one or two I resorted to CD's...

Same goes for mp3 with up to and including 128 kbps. It sounds lousy against a CD. And yes, I can hear that.

At 160 kbps upwards I cannot distinguish the source (CD or mp3), except on special occasions when I am hinted to pay attention to given details. Different people do have different perceptions and you can train your ear. So I am not defending the impossible - i.e. mp3 at 320kbps will be undestinguishable for most people, except people with exceptional hearing and propper training. Many audiophile would disagree, but I think that would be bullshitting.

But the really overwhealming difference for me was to experience familiar songs in a way, where I could hear details I never noticed before. Also, with a propper setup you can locate each instrument in space. All of this gives you an experience as if you were entering the stage where the music is being done. Great listening experience!

After some time I got used to this sound quality and I started for instance to notice how aweful the sound is at many live concerts!

Now to the "audiophool":

Because I am neither rich nor an audiophile willing to sell his car in exchange of an amplifier and speakers, I got my own stereo out of eBay components. Vintage audio from the 70ies and early 80ies is pretty cheap, but probably produces the best sound per buck.

The best of my systems has cost me about 250 Euro and uses a PC to reproduce music (over an Audio Fidelity DAC). The sound is pretty good and beats any modern system based on iPod stuff hands down.

So what do you get if you pay 15.000 Euro instead of the 250 Euro I spent?

First off, you get something new and don't have to repair, clean or exchange cracking potis...

Then you get a much better sound. Imagine having a FullHD 42" LCD and then you move over to an 84" 4K screen playing native 4k material. That is the difference. Is it worth the price tag? That has to be decided by yourself.

And if you spend 15.000 Euro or more (I have listened to one setup with a 100.000 Euro price tag), you need a propper room to benefit from the sound. And then you need matching furniture: a comfortable couch, etc. And after spending this fortune, would you the buy cheap speaker cable?

Also, audiphile equipment in this price range is to be considered art - it doesn't only sound great, it looks great, too. It has the signature of the brand and engineer who developed it. Hence why there is a market for speaker support, cable support, etc. You wouldn't put a cheap frame on an authentic Renoir, would you?

Much is indeed nonsense, but not everything. I recommend that you seek an audiophile store and ask for a listening session. Serious stores will be happy to let you sit and listen for an hour or so, helping you through your preferred bands. Listen to the sound and enjoy. Relax and never mind if some components (monster cable) are silly: at a given price, nothing matters.

And after spending one hour listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, try to listen to this same album on a modern 200 Euro system.

Audiophile stores are happy to let you listen to their setups because they rely on making people familiar again to great sound - I was never refused by any store. And they won't be agressiviley trying to sell you anything.

Regards,
Vitor

[NiHaoMike]

Same goes for mp3 with up to and including 128 kbps. It sounds lousy against a CD. And yes, I can hear that.

At 160 kbps upwards I cannot distinguish the source (CD or mp3), except on special occasions when I am hinted to pay attention to given details. Different people do have different perceptions and you can train your ear. So I am not defending the impossible - i.e. mp3 at 320kbps will be undestinguishable for most people, except people with exceptional hearing and propper training. Many audiophile would disagree, but I think that would be bullshitting.
...
Then you get a much better sound. Imagine having a FullHD 42" LCD and then you move over to an 84" 4K screen playing native 4k material. That is the difference. Is it worth the price tag? That has to be decided by yourself.

It's content dependent. Most music does indeed seem to do well at 192kbps, but the compression artifacts are audible in a few songs with complex content. Storage is cheap enough nowadays that there's little reason to use anything less than 320kbps or (if supported) FLAC.

I have actually seen a 85" 4K display at work. As a desktop display, it would be way too pixellated. But it works great for giving presentations. A 85" 5K display (if it existed) would be better. Or indeed, an 8K, but that's many years away.

[Martin.M]

a true audiofool will only like a perfect analog stream 

[Bicurico]

I have actually seen a 85" 4K display at work. As a desktop display, it would be way too pixellated. But it works great for giving presentations. A 85" 5K display (if it existed) would be better. Or indeed, an 8K, but that's many years away.

8k displays do exist. Japanese TV Channel (I think NHS) has shown it at IBC a couple of years ago. The question is if it is worth it, as you cannot see any difference at reasonable distance of the screen.

Anyway, what I wanted to express with my post was that one should listen to audiophile equipment before bashing it. Much is bullshit but not everything.

Regards,
Vitor

[tatus1969]

I have actually seen a 85" 4K display at work. As a desktop display, it would be way too pixellated. But it works great for giving presentations. A 85" 5K display (if it existed) would be better. Or indeed, an 8K, but that's many years away.

8k displays do exist. Japanese TV Channel (I think NHS) has shown it at IBC a couple of years ago. The question is if it is worth it, as you cannot see any difference at reasonable distance of the screen.

Anyway, what I wanted to express with my post was that one should listen to audiophile equipment before bashing it. Much is bullshit but not everything.

Regards,
Vitor

The human eye is supposed to have approx 140 mega"pixels". When sitting 2m away from a screen, and assuming that the eye is roughly covering a half sphere, I calculate

A1 = 0.5 * 4 PI *  r^2 = 25.1 m^2.

An eye "pixel" projected onto this surface would then be

Apixel = A1 / 140e6 = 0.18 mm^2,

or, assuming square pixels (which they of aren't),

Apixel = 0.4mm x 0.4mm.

If we now have an 3840 × 2160 8k TV screen, that must at least be 1.6 x 0.9 meters large, or 64'' x 36'', or 74'' diagonal.

If my calculations are correct, then 8k 74'' TVs and up do make sense, you could sell them as Retina TVs.

[Cyberdragon]

The human eye has 576 megapixels.

[alexanderbrevig]

I put this on here a couple of years ago, but this still takes the biscuit!
http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html

You led me to this http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html notice the MP3 previews! Hilarious

Btw crossing signal and power is a good idea if you are not certain proper balun is in place. This has saved me at concerts more than once.

[tatus1969]

I put this on here a couple of years ago, but this still takes the biscuit!
http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html

You led me to this http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html notice the MP3 previews! Hilarious

Btw crossing signal and power is a good idea if you are not certain proper balun is in place. This has saved me at concerts more than once.

A bargain for $595!

"Our Skin-filtering technology ... —without impeding dynamics (unlike traditional power filters)."

So in other words, power filters in front of an audio amp can impede its dynamic response, do I get that right?

Without words.

[Cyberdragon]

"Our Skin-filtering technology ... —without impeding dynamics (unlike traditional power filters)."

So in other words, power filters in front of an audio amp can impede its dynamic response, do I get that right?

Without words.

Oh yeah? Will it protect against this?!

*plugs into the Photonicinduction Big Boy Supply and makes sure it is properly elevated by more *
*rams the skull lever to max*
"AVADA KADAVRA!"
*click* *BZZZZZZAAAAAAP* *sizzle*

"And Todays Audiophool Product is............DESTROYED! Voltamort approves."

EDIT: "On next weeks Voltamort show... we "service" the server hosting the "

[0xFFF0]

I live near a fair campus. After the audio fair, there will always be an Esoteric fair. People do not need to dismantle their exhibition booths.

[dmills]

I got kicked out of a "hifi" (It was nothing of the sort!) show once, turns out that bringing a SSB capable handheld radio clipped to your belt reveals a few too many immunity issues in the tweaky stuff when you squeeze the key.

Regards, Dan.

[Cyberdragon]

I got kicked out of a "hifi" (It was nothing of the sort!) show once, turns out that bringing a SSB capable handheld radio clipped to your belt reveals a few too many immunity issues in the tweaky stuff when you squeeze the key.

Regards, Dan.

You've given me far too many ideas for trolling these idiots.

[SL4P]

Now I’m on to it.
Cables with thicker insulation will sound better because they increase the distance between the floor and the conductor!  You could extrapolate that out by using the thinnest conductors capable of carrying the load.

I think a cheaper, easier solution is to increase the distance between the audiophool and the music.

[GregDunn]

The best, and in fact what should be the only way to decide whether a component, technology or signal encoding makes a difference in the sound is to run a properly moderated ABX test using the two things in question.  Granted, it's not easy to set one up for things like power amplifiers, but low level components, passive items, and source signals can be tested pretty easily.  It's amazing (or maybe just satisfying) to see alleged differences evaporate when they are properly compared with a methodology that takes the visual evidence away from the audiophool.  I've done this with lossy audio sources and even preamps, and it's evident that the human ear is terrible at distinguishing some things, somewhat better at others.

https://hometheaterreview.com/why-do-audiophiles-fear-abx-testing/

I haven't read the comments, but I fear they would destroy my faith in humanity all over again.