Another laughable "high-end" audio product

[precaud]

Total absurd, but peppered with all the right buzz words/phrases; reference, timing imbalance, asymmetric, balance the polarities (which?), symbiosis, transfer, proprietary. Sheesh.

https://www.viking-acoustics.com/audio-accessories

Who buys this cr@p?

[rrinker]

 Total fail! After all that work, they go right ahead and bundle the two cables together! Think of the crosstalk and distortion from those two wires running in parallel! Think of the added capacitance! Least they could do would be to twist them. 

[BrianHG]

  I've been to audiophile store locally, even they would never carry this crap BS.  At least they are sensible about strict quality of products, not this 10x overpriced, under gauged for the cost for not even pure silver cables, they are half copper, while the insulator material is BS for an 8 ohm load system and the connectors are only plated + those worthless wooden blocks.  Yet, people still buy it.

2600$ + 240$ for 1/2 silver plated ends for a 3 meter pair, 1 conductor copper?  For an AC signal?  My ass that one polarity should be made of silver and the other polarity should be made of copper.  And doing this improves the sound quality...

Note I do have 100% pure silver cables, 3 meter with separate conductor pairs, for the tweeter and woofer, silver connector ends & I paid only 300$.  These guys must be making a profit killing on 2840$ for 1/4 the silver of what I got only paying 300$.  If I went for 4 pairs of equivalent high quality copper + ends properly done would have been around 75$.  Home made, around 25$.

[Mr. Scram]

Those laser cut triangles look horribly cheap. It looks like every other laser cutter project.

[jsi]

Total absurd, but peppered with all the right buzz words/phrases; reference, timing imbalance, asymmetric, balance the polarities (which?), symbiosis, transfer, proprietary. Sheesh.

https://www.viking-acoustics.com/audio-accessories

Who buys this cr@p?

I got BS all over me, should have worn boots.     

Seriously though         Audiophools 

[VK3DRB]

US $320,000 per pair of speakers. I guess they don't sell too many. Just 1.25 kg of cocaine from Mexico sold on the streets of Australia could buy a pair. Or seven illegal cash transfers out of China via the notorious HSBC bank could pay for it. Yep, maybe there is a market...

https://www.viking-acoustics.com/gottenburg-odin

[Mechatrommer]

i dont find any soothing to the music they linked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOuCiCR7rEc&feature=youtu.be, maybe its just my Altec Lansing speakers playing the sound here are crap or i just dont get the art, but i'd rather listening to Acon or Enigma music. anybody buying the cable deserve extinction imho.

[sd]

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/isolation/accessories/ect/
http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audio_video.htm
http://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/qr8/qr8_03.html
 

[hayatepilot]

It is one thing to sell those cables to people with too much money because they look nice, but the real problem is that the sellers say they sound better.
HiFi Voodoo in its purest form. 

[borjam]

Bollocks!

What a failure, they say that the cotton is unbleached, but seems it's not organic. I wonder what they fed their poor sheeps.

I wonder, what fertilizer do they use for their cotton? Is it transgenic free?? 

[rrinker]

 There you go, let's start a business. Almost the exact same cable, except we'll be sure to use 100% certifiable organic cotton. And trapezoids instead of triangles for better sound isolation.

 

[BrianHG]

There you go, let's start a business. Almost the exact same cable, except we'll be sure to use 100% certifiable organic cotton. And trapezoids instead of triangles for better sound isolation.

 

Instead, let's reverse the copper and silver conductor on the +&- sides of the cable, charge double & point out that we discovered that the other guys made a mistake in their testing.  Our reversed speaker cable actually doubles the sound quality features of theirs and we patent the reverse order the copper/silver conductors.

Basically we buy their cables and sell them for double with instructions to wire the + and - in reverse on both sides, the amp and speaker for double the sound performance.... 

[precaud]

I bet the guy is going to wonder what the hell is going on when he looks at his weekly google internet stats report, showing a huge increase in page views but no biz to show for it...   

[ArdWar]

Instead, let's reverse the copper and silver conductor on the +&- sides of the cable, charge double & point out that we discovered that the other guys made a mistake in their testing.  Our reversed speaker cable actually doubles the sound quality features of theirs and we patent the reverse order the copper/silver conductors.

Basically we buy their cables and sell them for double with instructions to wire the + and - in reverse on both sides, the amp and speaker for double the sound performance.... 

Would be hilarious of the patent is actually granted. I'm not holding my breath, though...

[Halcyon]

Those laser cut triangles look horribly cheap. It looks like every other laser cutter project.

You mean the "tonewood" ?

 

[jonovid]

Those laser cut triangles look horribly cheap. It looks like every other laser cutter project.

You mean the "tonewood" ?

 

speakers get there own viking cable Hyperloop

[borjam]

I can only imagine the next business. Some kind of air purifier for wireless sound systems? 

(PS. If someone here patents it, I want my cut!)

[precaud]

Or fuses with polarity markings...

[borjam]

Or fuses with polarity markings...

I've seen "balanced" cables used with RCA connectors. Yes, I mean "balanced" like two wires connecting the center pins. Of course together with directional markings.

[Brumby]

I've seen "balanced" cables used with RCA connectors. Yes, I mean "balanced" like two wires connecting the center pins. Of course together with directional markings.

  

[julianhigginson]

I've seen "balanced" cables used with RCA connectors. Yes, I mean "balanced" like two wires connecting the center pins. Of course together with directional markings.

But how else do you expect people with a stereo component system with only normal RCA sockets to be able to achieve foamy enhanced dynamic clarity and holographic 3d bass with their systems?

[Jaymo]

You know what they say, "A fool and his money are soon parted".

[LeoTech]

The sad part about this is that people apparently actually buy these! And the fact that people make money of these!

I mean seriously, what has happened to this world? Where people forget all logic and everything they have learned in school, and end up buying this stuff?

The interesting part would be if someone had access to sales statistics and similar of these companies. Anyone?

Leo

[jh15]

Because they learned nothing in school, you got it!

Well now in USA they have to spend hours learnig learn duck and cover again.

[cgroen]

The sad part about this is that people apparently actually buy these! And the fact that people make money of these!

I mean seriously, what has happened to this world? Where people forget all logic and everything they have learned in school, and end up buying this stuff?

The interesting part would be if someone had access to sales statistics and similar of these companies. Anyone?

Leo

Some people also go to church on sundays....

[Cyberdragon]

The sad part about this is that people apparently actually buy these! And the fact that people make money of these!

I mean seriously, what has happened to this world? Where people forget all logic and everything they have learned in school, and end up buying this stuff?

The interesting part would be if someone had access to sales statistics and similar of these companies. Anyone?

Leo

These people will surely get Darwinized eventually. Unlike real tube heads, they obviously know nothing about actual electronics. The high voltage (or something exploding) will get them soon enough, we just have to wait.

[frog_jr]

OK, I will confess...
I have a client that sells high end audio equipment that he "builds".
Among his equipment is an amplifier for which I designed a pre-amp.
When he was telling me what specs he wanted to meet, he also added that he wanted it to have "features" that would set it apart. 

After I finished the board layout, he had lots of material to add to his marketing...
It has a trapezoidal shape (not that anything came close to requiring it).
With matched signal lengths (after all, if it is good enough for 10G it should be great for audio).
Not a hard angle to be found in the copper, all very smooth and rounded (don't want any electrons bouncing out!)
Oh, and a special finned heat sink since the entire pre-amp dissipates nearly a quarter watt.

I still can't believe what people are paying for these things!

Edit: typo

[borjam]

With matched signal lengths (after all, if it is good enough for 10G it should be great for audio).

Hmmm. I smell big business. Microwave waveguides for phono preamps so that it's more transparent to high frequencies?

Imagine not only the cost of the waveguides, but the installation fees!

[HalFET]

OK, I will confess...
I have a client that sells high end audio equipment that he "builds".
Among his equipment is an amplifier for which I designed a pre-amp.
When he was telling me what specs he wanted to meet, he also added that he wanted it to have "features" that would set it apart. 

After I finished the board layout, he had lots of material to add to his marketing...
It has a trapezoidal shape (not that anything came close to requiring it).
With matched signal lengths (after all, if it is good enough for 10G it should be great for audio).
Not a hard angle to be found in the copper, all very smooth and rounded (don't want any electrons bouncing out!)
Oh, and a special finned heat sink since the entire pre-amp dissipates nearly a quarter watt.

I still can't believe people what are paying for these things!

I did layout for such a board (freelance on location) while in college. I added "isolation slots" around the opamp, left the soldermask open on the audio traces so they were gold plated, and so on. It's funny in a way if they pay you per hour to layout their bullshit. My favourite was how they demanded vias around the signal path, main issue with that entire concept was that they weren't hooked up to anything and that it made it near impossible to route things to the other side of the board. Worst power layout design ever. Don't think it ever made it to market, doubt it'd pass any EM compliance testing for that matter.

[BrianHG]

Don't think it ever made it to market, doubt it'd pass any EM compliance testing for that matter.

EM compliance?  Your audio frequency linear amp design emitted radio waves?  Or was it switching?

[Cyberdragon]

Don't think it ever made it to market, doubt it'd pass any EM compliance testing for that matter.

EM compliance?  Your audio frequency linear amp design emitted radio waves?  Or was it switching?

An amplifier designed poorly enough would be an oscillator.

[borjam]

Anyway, the best kept secret in the audio industry is, the "best sounding" equipment is not the most linear and cleaner, quite the contrary!

Some people prefer vinyl and analog tape because the way it distorts sounds beautiful. When recording music distortion is added on purpose. Why are studios using microphones with a valve preamplifier? Because valve distortion sounds good. Now there are even digital emulations of the distortion of different pieces of equipment.

I have a very good audio interface with two very good microphone preamps. It's so good some people says it's "lifeless". But it has a DSP with a lot of processing blocks you can activate (equalization, etc) and a commonly used feature is the preamplifier emulation for the inputs. You can enable it and you get a distortion model called "British mic pre 1" (could be an emulation of a Neve or SSL mixing desk channel)

Remember, it's music, not laboratory measurements. Distorting the sound (in a good way!) is part of the creative process.

[jh15]

Adding a desirable sound is not hifi, but common. Look at new crappy turntables I cringe at, vs modest ones of the 70's.

They play a vinyl on a massless turntable, crappy cartridge, wow and flutter up the kazoo, and think it sounds better than a cd or even an mp3?

Well same thing here: proposed  Jaguar ev car. You can make fake exhaust sound in the drivers compartment of your choice. They sell it so as to listen and know what speed you are going.

Not related to some new laws to make ev cars noisy so blind people won't step in front of them. (I like sneaking up on neighbors in the road anyway)

There is some crappy soviet or western bloc film camera that takes crappy pictures for fun, is what I think of casual vinyl lovers.

When my ears were good, I could hear differences in stylus cantilever materials. Recent vinyl revolution (pun?) is a joke. Sill hear crappy artifacts in compressed audio.

Rather have full dynamic range on a perfectly mastered cd or FLAC.

[Brumby]

In other words, if my system is almost ideal, by doing some DSP trick, I can clone the sound characteristics of any existing, lower performance systems. This allows me to quickly adapt to customers' preference and competitors' latest product.

I understand what you are saying - but that just caused a lot of people to choke on their breakfast.

[BrianHG]

There exist some good Audio purist grade hardware, and, such speakers and amps / preamps are not too expensive and are usually minimalist in design.  This stuff isn't cheap, but today, you can manage a really good setup below 2k$, (Includes speakers, amp, preamp, wiring)  though it's hard to navigate past low quality fake junk at this low price level.  With a slightly larger budget, you can get an awesome setup.  I personally stay away from any processing in favor of properly designed speakers / amp / preamp / dac.  (Though I did design a sub-woofer processor for special uses...)

When it comes to Audiophile/Audiophool stuff, yes, 1k$ to 10k$ speaker cables are BS.  50k$ speakers are just too much.  All the write-ups on such products are all subjective BS with no real background.  But, if you want to make 9.8k$ profit on a pair of speaker cables, you have no choice but to write such things.  And, these things do sell as my friend owns a high end audio/video shop here in Montreal, and this is what a particular set of clientele of his wants.  So, he sells it to them.  And this type of clientele come back every few years wanting more AV equipment for him to set up in one of their new homes, or new summertime cottage up north because they have 0 complaints about what he sold them previously.

[Cyberdragon]

The people that buy that shit are usually incredibly stupid...

Darwin advises avoiding contact...

[BrianHG]

The people that buy that shit are usually incredibly stupid...

Darwin advises avoiding contact...

But they have BIG $$$.  Owning multiple 8 figure $ homes, approximate 7 figure $ cars with more money than what they know what to do with, selling products they will pay for is a valid means of making money.

Just avoiding them means you can never get your hands on any of that money they are willing to give away with just the right stories.

[peteb2]

True 'argument' experience from when i had a meet up with a seriously dedicated Audiophile (Audiophool).

The guy had spent thousands of dollars on seriously expensive gear and was excited he believed he could now hear a marked quality better sound from his setup when he invested in an expensive bespoke made silver-conductors power cable... From wall-outlet into the amplifier chassis, the IEC chassis connect, bassically an electric kettle lead!

I kid you not...

I horsed with him a bit and agreed then added he could now more than likely determine if the mains electricity had been generated either by hyrdo (as in lake damned water) or if it had come from a gas/coal powered station (no nuclear in my country)... It took him no time to agree and that he was aware of a distinctive difference...

That's when i added he really needed to do all his monitoring a VACUUM chamber so that 99% of all the bad air in the room was removed that colored so much of what he heard...

The guy wrinkled up his face and absolutely agreed.... !!!

 

[BrianHG]

and wooden RCA connector caps.

What, no shielding there?  An open point for EMI or RF to penetrate.

[borjam]

As a HiFi hobbyist, I would like to defend the HiFI concept. We all know HiFi doesn't sound the best, but HiFi grants little to no unintended distortion and noise, which gives a clean system for the user or DSP engineer to add intentional distortion and flavor.

In other words, if my system is almost ideal, by doing some DSP trick, I can clone the sound characteristics of any existing, lower performance systems. This allows me to quickly adapt to customers' preference and competitors' latest product.

HiFi or even audiophile equipment is not the same as audiophool voodoo.

I have tried expensive loudspeakers (Kef, Tannoy, B&W and ProAc models at around $5000 euro a pair) and the sound was really awesome. That said, no system is perfect. I remember a pair of Epos loudspeakers I tried once. The voices from a recording of Bach's Matthaus Passion were incredible, like the singers were in front of me. But the orchestra was a bit mushy, like behind a thick curtain.  More expensive than that? Probably it's like comparing a Rolex to a Seiko.

With amplifiers I think that the main difference is how they distort. I remember, when I read some HiFi magazines now and then, some esoteric amplifiers that got the highest scores in the listening tests were the ones with more distortion and RF interference susceptibility. Which wasn't surprising to me of course!

Anyway it comes down to what you like. Some people like loudspeakers with boomy, exagerated bass around 100 - 200 Hz. Other people, especially with age, like a small oomph on high frequencies. What's wrong with that? Moreover, unless I am wrong loudspeakers can play interesting tricks with amplifiers because of their impedance curve. Some "8 ohm" speakers can have as little as 2 ohms at certain frequencies and that can induce some distortion depending on the frequency content falling into those "hotspots". So often the "hey, this amplifier sounds great with these speakers" can very well mean that you hit a hotspot you particularly enjoy.

The only way to judge how authentic your equipment sounds is to go to the studio where the recordings have been mixed and compare the sound. The carefully calibrated monitors in a well designed room will be the real reference.

When I go shopping for HiFi gear I take 10 CDs that I know well with me, two recorded by myself even, and I judge wether I enjoy the sound or some weakness gets especially obvious. That's it.

And what do I have at home? Well, nothing especially fancy. A 25 year old combination of a Nad 302 amplifier and Tannoy 632 loudspeakers.  I know its shortcomings of course. I have a very expensive audio interface for recording (Metric Halo ULN-2) but the reason is simple, it has awesome microphone preamplifiers with a very high S/N ratio and a lot of gain if needed. As I said it's so good, some people find it "boring", "cold" and "surgical" and resort to the equipment emulation (ie, adding very mild and gentle distortion) to give it some "spark"

[BrianHG]

and wooden RCA connector caps.

What, no shielding there?  An open point for EMI or RF to penetrate.

Never seen a single "audiophile" RCA covers made of metal. Always wooden or plastic.

Funny, mine are solid brass with everything else all heavy 24k gold plated, though the outside grip has an electrostatic black paint on it, with a white/red painted ring.  They are designed to be fully repairable.

[grifftech]

I believe the claim on their highest end cables "Demo them for 30 days and compare with any cable of any cost -- you will hear the difference or you'll send them back!"

they will sound better than this wire: https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-GearIT-Meters-Theater-Speakers/dp/B00HZX453I/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1521645225&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=speaker+cable&psc=1
and these spades: https://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-BVST6-Terminal-Connector/dp/B005HQ4QTI/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1521645612&sr=1-7&keywords=spade+connectors

[BrianHG]

I believe the claim on their highest end cables "Demo them for 30 days and compare with any cable of any cost -- you will hear the difference or you'll send them back!"

they will sound better than this wire: https://www.amazon.com/Speaker-GearIT-Meters-Theater-Speakers/dp/B00HZX453I/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1521645225&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=speaker+cable&psc=1
and these spades: https://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-BVST6-Terminal-Connector/dp/B005HQ4QTI/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1521645612&sr=1-7&keywords=spade+connectors

Maybe, and I stress maybe, but, it will not sound better than this wire, especially if you use 2 pairs/speaker, 1 for the woofer and 1 for the mid&tweeter like I do:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-250-ft-12-2-Solid-Romex-SIMpull-CU-NM-B-W-G-Wire-28828255/100048873

That's 29 cents a foot.  (My setup at 8 feet X 4 cables = under 20$)  And don't use the stupid spades.  They introduce another point of 1 type of metal crimped/soldered to another type of metal contact.  Just use my suggested solid conductor copper core wire and crunch the end slightly in a vice to flatten it into shape.  You removed another potential point of resistance.  Just buy an amp and speaker with real sturdy binding posts.

And having the 2 pairs with speakers which have separate inputs for woofer and tweeter is the one time you gain performance with speaker cable if your amp is wired properly internally with 2 sets of outputs as well.

[helius]

Bi-amping has nothing to do with the performance of the speaker cable, unless you mean that you need twice as much of it.
Do you know how to improve the performance of the speaker cable? Just use a heavier gauge wire, like 9awg instead of 14awg. That's all.
"Oxygen Free" cable is also bullshit.

[BrianHG]

Bi-amping has nothing to do with the performance of the speaker cable, unless you mean that you need twice as much of it.
Do you know how to improve the performance of the speaker cable? Just use a heavier gauge wire, like 9awg instead of 14awg. That's all.
"Oxygen Free" cable is also bullshit.

I am not Bi-amping.  The amp is wired internally with all the MOSFET's source pads are wired to 1 internal point/post internally.  At that 1 point, the negative feedback is taken and at that point, the 2 separate wires feeding the 2 separate speaker binding posts at the rear of the amp.  That point is in theory the perfect 0 ohms and perfect signal.  The separate wires going to the speaker after that just deals with the unusual LPF crossover for the woofer in the speaker which can express a load across the series resistance of the speaker cable.  The mid/tweeter wire is completely free from that load being taken with a separate wire right from that negative feedback reference point.  Sort of like what is done inside a linear high current regulator where the output source is wire bonded to the low impedance pin, then, there is another wire bond from that pin back to the regulator IC as feedback.

I do not believe in having a separate amp with active crossover because of the need for perfectly matching everything across 2 amps + the price is getting out of hand.  That extra filter box in the middle and all those RCA cables & how good is that filter box & are the speakers well matched for it & the etcetera can of worms involved.  I prefer a simpler route & I take some advantages where I can if the cost is only an extra 10$-50$ at the end of the day.  After all, the amp was 2.5k$.  I went for a really high quality discrete amp instead, having this 1 additional double speaker binding posts option as it is a minimal additional cost.  Obviously, the difference here is becoming insurmountable except when driving the full 500w into a 4 ohm woofer unless there was 12 gauge speaker wiring inside the amp, which there isn't.

[Synthtech]

There is a “high end” Hifi dealer here in Sydney with a big reputation that you need very deep pockets to even walk in the door. I remember hearing about a customer that purchased a premium stereo system from them that included installation and they installed and commissioned it and handed it over to the proud customer with the speakers wired out of phase.

[Cyberdragon]

There is a “high end” Hifi dealer here in Sydney with a big reputation that you need very deep pockets to even walk in the door. I remember hearing about a customer that purchased a premium stereo system from them that included installation and they installed and commissioned it and handed it over to the proud customer with the speakers wired out of phase.

You seem to expect audiophools to have working brains...

[Brumby]

... they installed and commissioned it and handed it over to the proud customer with the speakers wired out of phase.

   Instant credibility vaporisation.


Tell me - who worked out the phase goof?

[helius]

It wouldn't be too surprising if the speakers were miswired internally, the installer just connects red to red and calls it good. You need to listen to test tracks to identify a phase reversal problem, it isn't usually obvious with ordinary music.

[Cyberdragon]

Some amps have a deliberate reverse setting as an effect. So if it was miswired you could just run it in reverse.

EDIT: Phase reverse that is, not LR reverse. Phase reverse seems to mostly be a preamp thing. Some output amps might have it though.

[BrianHG]

There is a “high end” Hifi dealer here in Sydney with a big reputation that you need very deep pockets to even walk in the door. I remember hearing about a customer that purchased a premium stereo system from them that included installation and they installed and commissioned it and handed it over to the proud customer with the speakers wired out of phase.

You seem to expect audiophools to have working brains...

You seem to expect audiophools to have any matter whatsoever in their heads... 

[Brumby]

Since sound doesn't travel through a vacuum, one would hope there is something in there.

[HalFET]

Don't think it ever made it to market, doubt it'd pass any EM compliance testing for that matter.

EM compliance?  Your audio frequency linear amp design emitted radio waves?  Or was it switching?

The remote control did, and I saw a prototype of that board and it was certainly a creative "revolutionary" design 

[strawberry]

What about cheap audio foolery.. fake gold plating, steel copper ''polarized'' audio cables,  ... spatial HiFi/UHD RCA/SPDIF cables for blueray/4K or what not

[Synthtech]

... they installed and commissioned it and handed it over to the proud customer with the speakers wired out of phase.

   Instant credibility vaporisation.


Tell me - who worked out the phase goof?

Presumably the first person who stood between the speakers and felt dizzy and wondered why there was no bottom end.

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

What about cheap audio foolery.. fake gold plating, steel copper ''polarized'' audio cables,  ... spatial HiFi/UHD RCA/SPDIF cables for blueray/4K or what not

Welcome to Ukraine: http://www.abbasaudio.com/

P.S. But their bullshit is priceless! "The digital roughening, importunity of the vocals disappears, the sibilant consonants cease to be emphasized, and the violins acquire natural melodiousness, getting rid of the increased itch-tickling "rosinity" characteristic even for very expensive digital paths."(c)google-translated advertising of their voltage regulator (simple circuit with (supposedly) TL431 and ancient germanium BJT).