Author Topic: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable  (Read 3139 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« on: January 03, 2019, 10:15:26 am »
£2,000 BNC cable

Quote
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere — at any price. Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science, Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies that sets the standard for quality and performance in the cable industry.

Sigma digital cables feature Shunyata Research’s exclusive patent-pending TAP Polarizer technology. TAP reduces electromagnetic polarization distortion. Ohno Continuous Cast Copper and PMZ conductors with exotic fluorocarbon dielectrics make for a true reference quality digital cable.

https://shunyata-uk.com/product/digital-cables/sigma-clock-50/

 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 10:54:05 am »
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/03/shunyata-research-transverse-axial.html

Is that a magnetic in there with a coil over it?

Quote
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/digital-cables/sigma-clock-50/
TAP (‌‌Transverse Axial Polarizer) is a device that interacts with the electromagnetic field generated by the signal traveling along the signal cable. ‌‌TAP improves the sonic performance of the cable by modifying the behavior of the electromagnetic wave that surrounds the signal cable. In effect, the ‌‌TAP blocks longitudinal-oriented waves while passing transverse-oriented waves. The effect in sonic terms is like using polarized sunglasses to reduce reflected sunlight. Correcting polarization micro-distortion reduces what some call sonic glare.
~ Patent Pending ~

Trying to associate vision with audio.

I see their "research:
https://shunyata.com/technology-guide/

I can hear just fine I don't want my audio polarised thank you very much.

Here's a joke:
A cable marketed for people with bipolar.
Helps them see and hear better to bring them out of their manic mood.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 10:57:16 am by MrMobodies »
 

Online wraper

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 11:03:34 am »
Container filled with exclusive 100% snake oil.

 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 12:35:00 pm »
 I bet that the impedance of this abomination is so bad it would actually cause real SWR issues and malfuntions in sensative equipment. Especually if that stupid load-coil thing is actually connected.


EDIT: Does the manual instruct to use excess SWR grease? >:D
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Offline cdev

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 12:42:58 pm »
Has anybody ever put these cables to the test on a real network analyzer?
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 01:17:24 pm »
Has anybody ever put these cables to the test on a real network analyzer?

Anyone with a network analyser is not dumb enough to buy one  ;D
 
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 06:30:02 pm »
Quote
Shunyata Research’s exclusive patent-pending TAP Polarizer technology

If it's patent-pending then the details of how it works (and what it is) will be available for public viewing. I'm pretty sure that here in the UK it's a very naughty thing indeed to do to say something is patented, or patent-pending, when it isn't. Don't know about less civilised places.

Edit: citation supplied:

Unauthorised patent claims
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 06:42:29 pm by dunkemhigh »
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 06:44:23 pm »
Quote
Shunyata Research’s exclusive patent-pending TAP Polarizer technology

If it's patent-pending then the details of how it works (and what it is) will be available for public viewing. I'm pretty sure that here in the UK it's a very naughty thing indeed to do to say something is patented, or patent-pending, when it isn't. Don't know about less civilised places.

Doubt it, probably just another mom & pop brick & mortar audio shop, that had been milking audiogoons for decades, and may be this creation is from their successor.

This scenes are so common and happened almost every big cities in this world.


Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 09:18:30 pm »
Hi Group,

The patent is probably real, and may have been granted.

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/caelin-gabriel

From the Shunyata Research website:

Link: https://shunyata-uk.com/about-us/

Caelin Gabriel is a former US military research scientist with a background in the research and design of ultra-sensitive data-acquisition systems. These systems were designed to detect extremely low-level signals otherwise obscured by random noise, requiring years of intensive research into the sources and effects of signal and power-line noise interference. Gabriel’s subsequent work experience involved development of high-speed networking devices including the 1GB/s fibre-channel interface and the present 100MB/s and 1GB/s ethernet devices. These unique work-related experiences were at the highest levels of government and computer science. This extensive design background led Gabriel to develop the fundamental design concepts for the patented technologies, measurements and custom-designed parts that form the cornerstone of the Shunyata product range. Gabriel holds more than 7 patents, with numerous additional patents-pending. These technical innovations have earned Gabriel’s product designs professional endorsements from the world’s finest recording studios and more recently, from heart surgeons and hospitals across the United States. Gabriel continues to advance his development of new technologies, part design, and construction, keeping Shunyata Research at the forefront of its field.

From the  Patent Application (Application #20180183227)

Link: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180183227

BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

Field of the Invention

The present invention relates most generally to audio sound systems and devices that improve the performance of cables used for audio and video production or reproduction. The invention is more particularly directed to a device improves the performance of audio interconnects, speaker cables, video cables, and digital audio cables used to interconnect consumer and professional electronic components.

Background Discussion

It is well known that cables interconnecting audio systems can have a significant effect upon the perceived sonic performance of a system. There are many cables that are claimed to improve the sonic performance through the use of higher purity copper conductors, lower dielectric coefficient insulation, complex braided geometries, superior types of connectors, and even charged shielding to reduce dielectric absorption.

The physics of electromagnetic signal propagation through an insulated conductor is well known. The conductor for a signal cable provides a current path for an alternating current signal. The associated electromagnetic wave propagates not only through the conductor but also outside the boundaries of the electrical conductor itself. This EM field travels axially along the path of the signal wire. It is also well-known to physicists that that the EM field that surrounds the signal wire can affect nearby electrical conductors and circuitry through the principles of induction and capacitive coupling. Further, it is understood that electromagnetic fields from other conductors and electronic components external to the signal wire can affect the signal traveling through the wire.


You can find the full patent here:

Link: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20180183227.pdf

It basically describes adding between 4 and 28 washers on the wire:



So if you want to work around this patent just use 29 washers.  :D

[sarcasm]

29 washers should have a similar effect upon the perceived sonic performance of a system.

[/sarcasm]

There are other gems such as:


Cable elevator


Aug 22, 2008


A cable support apparatus for suspending audio and/or video system cables above the floor. The device is configured as a sandwich of at least three layers of electrically conductive foam, including first and second outer layers fabricated from a low density electrically conductive foam, and an inner layer disposed between said first and second outer layers and fabricated from a foam having a higher density and greater rigidity than the foam of said first and second layers. The inner layer includes a V-shaped crotch for supporting a cable with minimal surface contact. The cable support minimizes floor vibrations transmitted to the cable, breaks up resonant vibration modes within the cable support itself, and neutralizes static-electrical charge differentials between the cable and the floor.



This is a block of antistatic foam:



I can't find these for sale.

Other patents include: Drift current coulombic storage apparatus

But, I don't want to take this thread off topic  :P

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:33:31 pm by Jay_Diddy_B »
 
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2019, 09:39:22 pm »
Cool! Thanks for turning those up. Seems to be a fair amount of money involved, especially if they all get accepted.
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2019, 10:05:20 pm »
Hi group,

Here is another 'gem' from the same company, the $425.00 USD, extension cord:



I left the 'need help?', if you buy a $425.00 extension cord, this question is redundant, you NEED help.

Whenever I see these special power cables, I always wonder about all the wiring in the wall. Is there an untapped market for special wiring in the wall?

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2019, 10:08:55 pm »
28 washers on the wire in a see through plastic cover for $2,000 using standard bnc coax connectors.

I'll be waiting to see when they start with a beeswax variant.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2019, 01:50:02 am »
Why are there so many of these audiophool companies ?


Seems to me like the audiophool subculture would be a good candidate for some research to be done on them and it. The prices and ridiculous arguments made in the products just keep getting more and more sketchy (same as dodgy) and outrageous.

Why now?



Edit: removed speculation there were more of this kind of company in one country when it was pointed out that didn't apply to this case and also was wrong.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 06:05:36 am by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2019, 03:09:30 am »
Why are there so many of these audiophool companies in the UK now? (Seems much fewer in the US+Australia, don't know about India.)

Snip...

That would explain it.

Shunyata Research is a USA based company.

Shunyata UK is a distributor in the UK, The Shunyata Distribution Company Ltd.

A lot of HiFi comes from the UK because of pioneering work done in conjunction with the BBC. This was great engineering, not 'dodgy technology'.


Jay_Diddy_B
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2019, 04:45:47 am »
Oh, but they also sell an RCA cable with the same "technology" for twice as much:
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/

 :-DD
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 04:53:40 am »
Oh, but they also sell an RCA cable with the same "technology" for twice as much:
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/

 :-DD

 
 
From the website:
  
 

 

£4,000.00


Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere — at any price. Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science, Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies that sets the standard for quality and performance in the cable industry.

Price is per pair of interconnect cables.
Standard length of each cable is 1 metre.
 Please contact us for custom lengths.

All prices include VAT.


The RCA cables are sold in pairs, so the price per cable is the same.

£4,000.00 for one cable would be unreasonable, apparently £2,000.00 is okay!!  ;)

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 05:08:30 am »
The RCA cables are sold in pairs, so the price per cable is the same.

£4,000.00 for one cable would be unreasonable, apparently £2,000.00 is okay!!  ;)

Oh, damn.  This all makes sense now.
£2000 is the price per meter of TAP cable. ;D

Note that they seem to justify the nonsense for their Sigma cable for high-speed digital signals based on transmission line properties, yet they use the same approach for cables that are labeled as "analog cables". Would be interesting to understand the line of reasoning. :popcorn:

 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2019, 05:51:44 am »
Hi Group,
The patent is probably real, and may have been granted.
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/caelin-gabriel

While it's a real patent application, nothing has been granted so far. The patent examiner issued a "non-final rejection" last year, because -- surprise! -- the claimed invention is not deemed to be new. (The whole patent examination file gets published, starting 18 months after the patent filing. Available online here: https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair.)

In the examiner's opinion, the claimed features of the "polarizer" are the same at what was described by a third party ealier, for a different purpose:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130112477A1/en?oq=20130112477
That invention looks more legit, and aims to supress higher transverse modes in a coaxial conductor.

But that story is not over yet; the applicant could still reply to the office action and keep trying to obtain a patent. I am not sure whether patent examiners would get into the "this just doesn't make physical sense" argument at all?
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 06:08:07 am »
I've heard that there is a real shortage of appropriately skilled patent examiners globally.

It requires a wider scope of knowledge than most professions.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2019, 06:22:15 am »
Hi,

Thank you to eblaster for being more diligent than I was.

The Spinner application looks more professional, and is at microwave frequencies.

The patent office doesn't judge whether an idea is sound engineering or not. They are just determining whether it is new or novel.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 07:41:25 am »
The patent office doesn't judge whether an idea is sound engineering or not. They are just determining whether it is new or novel.

Yes, that's what I thought. It might actually be easier to obtain a patent on something that just doesn't work: The more absurd it is, the more "inventive" -- i.e. "one skilled in the art" would never have thought of it...  ;)
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2019, 08:06:41 am »
Yes. Patents are not scientific publications. They are just meant to protect a form of intellectual property. Such property can include ideas that are unpractical, stupid, or dangerous.

Just for fun: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2019, 11:27:59 am »
Here's a joke:

Is it me or am I reading words that are not there.

https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/

Quote
shun ya ta "Shun you thank you"
Cable: Oh no 16 gauge coaxial, VTX™ geometry, FEP dielectric, silver-plated braided shielding

Termination: Shun ya ta Research RCA connectors

I don't remember coming across this amount of BS claims before in such a short paragraph:

Quote
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere :bullshit:at any price. :bullshit: Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement :bullshit: and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. :blah: Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science :bullshit: , Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies :bullshit: that sets the standard for quality :bullshit: and performance in the cable industry. :bullshit:


Does not exist anywhere. Of course it does in their heads and there seem to be many of them about.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 11:38:22 am by MrMobodies »
 

Online Richard Crowley

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2019, 12:05:37 pm »
The patent office doesn't judge whether an idea is sound engineering or not. They are just determining whether it is new or novel.
However, The USPTO does reputedly require a functional model of any proposed "perpetual motion" device/scheme/machine.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Audiophool: £2,000.00 BNC cable
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2019, 09:07:38 pm »
I'm reporting these fuckers to trading standards:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/regulation/5/made
 


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