Demagnetising vinyl, CDs for 300 bucks?

[Asn]

Hello my dudes

I am looking at the following product, and I have not found a single opinion doubting that it works, but I doubt that the magnets inside are worth more than 3 bucks, instead of the 300 price tag:


https://walkeraudio.com/?product=talisman-magnetic-optimizer

Some review states there are "a number of magnets of various size and strength inside", but I think stacking up a bunch of Ebay magnets does the same trick?

They have instructions, of course:

https://walkeraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Talisman-Instructions.pdf

Any guess as to what's inside? (= can I make my own?)

Also, people now "condition" their RCA and power cables, as well as speaker drivers with this...

[ataradov]

This site is an idiot's gold. There is a chunk of turned brass for $2200 https://walkeraudio.com/product/record-clamp/ .

Where do people that stupid get this kind of money?

[Rerouter]

a proper demagnetiser doesn't work with physical magnets, you just pipe mains into a transformer core (iron) to build a high intensity magnetic field, and by this field rapidly changing direction with high intensity fields, leaves the item with a random assortment of magnetic alignments that mostly cancel.

The key is the feild strength where it hits your metal must be higher than the permeability of the material, but in short if it can demagnetize a standard magnet, it will work for anything.

so take a normal EI transformer core, cut a corner so there is a gap of about 1cm, and run your record over that gap, the magnetic field lines intersect through the record to complete the loop, which demagnetizes the effected area in a bit of a figure 8 pattern.

If you wanted to make a machine to do it, either shape the metal and size the number of turns to cover the radius, or move a much smaller EI core across the radius.

[ataradov]

There is also nothing to demagnetize on vinyl and CDs So permanent magnets will be fine too, event though they would cause even more problems if this thing actually did anything.

[Rerouter]

I suppose someone could try and demagnetize there speakers :p

All good scams start with the faintest whiff of truth, most records are injection molded plastic, however they do pickup a very small trace of the master disks nickel plating on the surface from the pressing (this is why master pressing disks are only used X many times) the quantities would be stupidly tiny, but of cause nickel is a ferromagnetic material. thus the scam.

[ataradov]

but of cause nickel is a ferromagnetic material. thus the scam.

But the vinyl pickup is mechanical, why would it even matter? There is no way trace amounts of nickel will have any influence on the actual coil.

[Rerouter]

I agree, the tip of the pickup is also generally a non magnetic material, I was just doing as best I could to unpack where the scam may have started, The people that follow and buy these things generally only have enough information on the subject to be dangerous.

e.g. tiny nanometer sized flakes of nickel being a magnet, that is moving near sensitive electronics, To me and you it makes sense that if you perfectly magnetized what traces are there the field would not extend a micron above the record, but thrown into the audiophile echo chamber, It may end up spit out like such:

"oh no! the magnets in your record impart a voltage into the sensitive electronic pickup as the spin by, creating noise!",

[Asn]

but of cause nickel is a ferromagnetic material. thus the scam.

But the vinyl pickup is mechanical, why would it even matter? There is no way trace amounts of nickel will have any influence on the actual coil.

Well, the issue is not magnetism - the issue is that the static makes dust stick to your vinyl and that of course interferes with the playback. So we are really talking about keeping the vinyl clean, not free from esoteric magnetic interference. At least as far as I am concerned, because obviously, the same argument cannot be made for RCAs and woofers, which this device also claims to "treat".

[Rerouter]

Ok, static I can understand, but a magnet does not solve static, even creating your own static field does not solve static on plastics,

If you really wanted a dust free record, then put a plastic cover over the record player and keep the area surrounding it clean, ironically most of the cheaper all in one hifi units with a record player had one. (If you want to be pedantic about it, get a water misting bottle and spritz it near to the covered record player 30 or so seconds before you uncover it)

Also if you demagnetize a speaker / woofer, you get a resistive test load, without the permanent magnet the coils cannot move. (unless things have gotten fancier since I last checked and they are using reverse wired coils for active and static)

[Asn]

Hahaha spritzing water near the TT - playing vinyl becomes more cumbersome and complicated every day To be honest, I am getting the TT out of the attic after a decade or so simply because I never understood how to set it up properly when I was young - but now, educated by the Youtube University, I want to do the manly man thing and try to do the stylus pressure, skating etc settings myself, just so see how it goes. Also bought a "does not read discs"-CD player off Ebay, because I thought maybe I am the only fool around who cannot change a CD laser... will find out any day now, I have the lens already

[IDEngineer]

If you want to be pedantic about it, get a water misting bottle and spritz it near to the covered record player 30 or so seconds before you uncover it

Back in the 70's and 80's they used to sell an ionizing gun. Used a piezo crystal to generate high voltage to a needle-sharp point. Actually worked, I ran some experiments and it did reduce the attraction of dust and other lightweight particles to a vinyl LP. None of the mess of a water misting bottle, either! {grin} I still have mine tucked away somewhere, along with my Technics turntable.

I'll say it once again: For some reason audio attracts a unique brand of gullible people. When I was a teenager in the golden years of high end audio, I too fawned over the latest low distortion figures for pre and power amps, etc. Every hundredth of a percentage was important. Then I took a acoustics physics class, during part of which we studied microphones and speakers in an anechoic chamber. We proved that virtually all electromechanical transducers distort several whole percent, regardless of cost. So no matter how low the distortion in your electronics signal path, you start off with several percent from the microphones and you finish with several more percent at the speakers! The cutting heads for mastering LP's also distorted several percent, as did phono cartridges whether moving magnet or moving coil.

From that day forward I paid more attention to lowering the noise floor (still a passion of mine) than distortion. At least distortion is related to the original signal, while noise is inherently foreign. I don't waste money chasing after the lowest possible distortion, because it literally doesn't matter.

Meanwhile, folks are apparently still buying "oriented speaker cables" and other such audiophool tripe. If I were less honest I could be a whole lot wealthier.

[Cyberdragon]

Back in the 70s mics were garbage. Modern mics have <1% distortion.

[james_s]

Back in the 70's and 80's they used to sell an ionizing gun. Used a piezo crystal to generate high voltage to a needle-sharp point. Actually worked, I ran some experiments and it did reduce the attraction of dust and other lightweight particles to a vinyl LP. None of the mess of a water misting bottle, either! {grin} I still have mine tucked away somewhere, along with my Technics turntable.

They still sell those, blue thing, I think it's called a Zero-Stat. I have one an audiophile friend gave me and it does actually work. I use it occasionally on my records and also it works well to get those stupid foam packing peanuts and bits of them off of me and the object I've unpacked.

[Blocco]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Black Diamond Room Treatment Crystals:
https://walkeraudio.com/product/black-diamond-room-treatment-crystals/

[ataradov]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Black Diamond Room Treatment Crystals:
https://walkeraudio.com/product/black-diamond-room-treatment-crystals/

They are a bargain compared to turned brass. They have some other crystal-based products too. But I think they are not charging enough for them.

Plus there is a trick they don't want you to know - even the crystals in their warehouse are strong enough to treat the whole surface of the planet.

[IDEngineer]

They offer a turntable for $110,000.

That is not a typo on my part. I certainly hope it is on their part.

[james_s]

I guess if one considers it art...

I mean I've seen paintings that are worth millions that to me look like something that could be bought for $20 at a thrift store.

[SiliconWizard]

Yes, I guess it's a bit in the same league. Between art and luxury.
As long as buyers are satisfied with the products, it's their call whatever price they're willing to shell out.

Some people will pay over $100,000 for a wrist watch. It may look good, but may not work significantly better than a $100 one. Should the luxury watch industry be banned?

I guess as engineers/tech people we always tend to emphasize the technical matters over everything else. Business people know that technics alone doesn't sell much of anything (except maybe the Technics company ).

[james_s]

If somebody had enough cash that they could blow $110k on a turntable, then I'd rather see them spend the money and get it back into circulation than just sit on it. There are people out there who have such vast sums of wealth that dropping that much on a toy is like me spending a couple dollars on something. Good for those who manage to come with something that someone is willing to pay that much for, it's not like they're scamming old ladies out of their savings.

[electromotive]

If somebody had enough cash that they could blow $110k on a turntable, then I'd rather see them spend the money and get it back into circulation than just sit on it.

Gotta make sure you buy the $50k+ Sennheiser Orpheus/HE 1 headphones to go with it.

[james_s]

Well, *I* wouldn't think of spending that kind of money, but someone in a third world country earning a dollar a day might feel that things like me spending $700 on a scope to be equally outlandish, it's all a matter of perspective. Then there is the art thing I already mentioned, I'd rather have a good set of headphones than a painting, even not being an audiophile at least the headphones do something, the painting just sits there. It's not unusual for paintings to be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, why? Beats me, I can't tell the difference between a $100 painting and a $100k painting.  I do like to see wealthy people spending their money though, it's better for the rest of us than hoarding it or pushing it around using it to earn more money for themselves.

[Refrigerator]

This site is an idiot's gold. There is a chunk of turned brass for $2200 https://walkeraudio.com/product/record-clamp/ .

Where do people that stupid get this kind of money?

Last year, we improved our Reference record clamp by adding our Black Diamond technology.  Now, we’ve improved the record clamp again with the White Diamond crystal on top that intercepts and cancels harmful RF interference.

Could it be that the weight just dampens vibrations?

[GregDunn]

It's good that the credulous wealthy are being duped into putting their money back into circulation, but the damage this does to the audio industry is not so good.  Memes like this have convinced a large part of society that audio enthusiasts (and many designers) are woo-woo followers.  Instead of audio manufacturers spending their efforts trying to make more efficient or compact, affordable electronics and exploring better speaker implementations, we have their energies diverted into magic crystals and marketing.

It also convinces a fair number of people (again, the credulous ones) that there must be something to it and a cult is built up around something that has no demonstrable value.  It fits in with the general dumbing-down of society and the Dunning-Kruger effect.  It does make it difficult to have discussions on audio with people when their immediate response to skepticism is "you can't tell me whether I can hear something or not!"  The proper answer is, of course, "and neither can you, without a proper blind test."  The reason credulous people fear the blind test is that it will expose their beliefs as un-justified and (they think) make them look like fools.  I'll happily talk about failing blind tests in the service of psychology because it's for the greater good.  Well, that and I'd rather not waste money on something that doesn't do anything.

[cvanc]

We should totally start a thread here where we go on and on about how MAGNETIZING your records and CDs makes them sound unquestionably better and then sit back and wait to see how long it takes for some shyster to cite us as a reference 

[GregDunn]

We'll either get that, or some audiophool claiming that we've done it wrong because his way is better.