I wonder what effectively does this audiophool "cable burn-in device"...

[mcinque]

[ Specified attachment is not available ]After the 9K Euros for a 1,25Mt speaker cable (standard copper wires coated with an infinite thin 85 microns of silver, the same audio response of a standard 50 Cents/meter copper wire), I discovered a mystique "cable burner" device.

"When cables are first put into use, their directionality is not securely established. However, once the Vidar begins running current through the cables, the trapped gases are dissipated and small impurities in the conductor’s metal begin to act like a diode, favoring current flow in a particular direction. By using extremely wide bandwidth signal as well as a range of both ultra-low and high frequency sweeps, the Vidar stresses the conductors, neutralizes charges, improves the way that signals pass through metal and  ultrasonically conditions the surface of the conductors. It is these changes in both the conductor and insulation material that refines performance in audio cables."

I will never cease to wonder how many silly things you can find in the audiophool market. Instead focusing on music they like and believing in their ears, most audiophools put their attention to technical specs without knowing not even a 1/100th of the physics involved, loosing the true meaning of music: emotions.

I wonder what effectively do this 5 volts 3K "device" that a cheap function generator can't do to a cable (and with the same results: nothing).

EDIT: added the image to a post instead linking to preserve it from any change on the source website

[frog]

The purpose and function of this class of device are in fact very well known.  It's well established as an efficient and highly effective tool for separating credulous individuals from their money.  Don't forget to draw arrows on your CAT5s so the data knows which way to go.

[Gyro]

This looks like an untapped and potentially very lucrative market for Leo... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yet-another-fast-edge-pulse-generator/

Just think how well 40ps edges propogating down the cables would align them. Of course the cables would need to be properly terminated - you wouldn't want the edges reflecting back in the opposite direction and confusing them! 

[JPortici]

But this has orange ICs!

the purpose of the device is to squeeze all the juice

[mcinque]

Seriously, I would pay to be able to put an oscilloscope on the output of that thing and do a video about the results.

[Ian.M]

The *OTHER* purpose of a recommended burn-in period is to make it extremely unlikely (but not impossible) that the average audiophool listener will be able to complete the burn-in before their statuory right to a full refund expires. 

Now dealers can charge for the privilege of converting your new refundable cable into a used non-refundable cable! 

[mcinque]

The *OTHER* purpose of a recommended burn-in period is to make it extremely unlikely (but not impossible) that the average audiophool listener will be able to complete the burn-in before their statuory right to a full refund expires.

never thought in that way before, now it's crystal clear

[Cerebus]

coated with an infinite thin 85 microns of silver,

85 microns is quite generous, 1oz PCB copper is only 35 microns.

[Cerebus]

But this has orange ICs!

Resistor networks - Bourns I think.

[Cerebus]

Don't forget to draw arrows on your CAT5s so the data knows which way to go.

Fortunately the need to do this is at an end.

This month Underground Airlines is introducing its new Maxwell's Daemon Traffic Director^TM. Just install a Maxwell's Daemon Traffic Director^TM on your cables and the included Maxwell's Daemon will ensure that all electrons only go in the right direction. For a small monthly fee of $1000 Underground Airlines will ship you a regular replacement Daemon each quarter and you can return the used Daemon in the supplied packaging for refurbishment and feeding with our special grade Daemon food including Unobtainium and magnetic monopoles. Please specify if you require (1) Rock, (2) Easy Listening or (3) Classical music trained Daemons.

[ataradov]

This is some shitty layout.

[Electro Detective]

I'm an impoverished audioFILE forced to lower my standards as I can't afford the good stuff like Nordost Vidar   

I use a Megger insulation tester set to 1000 volts DC to burn in my new cables or pump life back into vintage pre-audiophool standard copper flex
it firmly advises the audio electrons which way to travel 
as well as not speed too much on the super audio highway   and avoid hitting kangaroos 

[cvanc]

I wonder if some of the components on that board don't do anything at all...

[cdev]

And to think all this started with "thick wire is incrementally better than thin wire" for speakers, at power.

That's it.

[stj]

lol - comment section:

the «directionality» of the cable reflects the souce end of the cable where the «floating ground wire» is connected – i.e. a drain wire whose purpose is to bring unwanted interference signals to ground so that it does NOT get to the output.

that's some prime bullshit there!

do they sell a deluxe model that actually uses turned-pin chipsockets? because that one looks like it's got stamped-contact 5c sockets!

look - the sign of a pro - ofc mains cable! 
http://www.nordost.com/ax-angel/power-cord.php

The Ax Angel Power Cord delivers remarkable dynamic range, superior sound, and extremely low noise levels from your Pro Audio equipment

[cdev]

I think that's a distinct possibility, yes.

I wonder if some of the components on that board don't do anything at all...

[BrianHG]

I think that's a distinct possibility, yes.

I wonder if some of the components on that board don't do anything at all...

Ummm, no, all the components on that board do nothing at all...

[StillTrying]

I think it's quite simple, Nordost should be locked up.

For a laugh have a very close look at the legs of the LEDs down the middle of the gold connectors.

[cdev]

I have a number of friends and neighbors who describe themselves as into audio and none of them are dumb enough to fall for any of this stuff.

Some of them have fairly expensive audio gear but usually for a reason. (professional involvement in music is one.)

[The Soulman]

  What will they think of next..

[stj]

What will they think of next..

how about - ethernet cable!!   
http://nordost.com/norse2/heimdall2/heimdall2-ethernet-cable.php

The Heimdall 2 Ethernet Cable allows hifi enthusiasts to integrate Network Attached Storage (NAS) devices and music streaming into their hifi systems, while simultaneously improving the sound quality.

let me be blunt, in most country's these fraudulent claims are illegal.

[ataradov]

I feel like this is some sort of money laundering scheme. Some contractor set up an audio system in a government facility, and use this entity as a a supplier for a 50% kick back.

[stj]

it could be a front for something.

[cvanc]

Touché!     

I think that's a distinct possibility, yes.

I wonder if some of the components on that board don't do anything at all...

Ummm, no, all the components on that board do nothing at all...

[retrolefty]

Just what I've always wanted, cable with directional preference, for my audio AC audio signals, that prefer to flow in both directions equally. Which way should the cable's preference arrow point?   

[EEVblog]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

[hermit]

I have a number of friends and neighbors who describe themselves as into audio and none of them are dumb enough to fall for any of this stuff.

Some of them have fairly expensive audio gear but usually for a reason. (professional involvement in music is one.)

What some people know about audio equipment is how much they spent and every cent they spend translates into something to brag about.  While this is an 'Emperor's New Clothes" scenario and we see them as buck naked, they differ from the original story in that they will never see the truth because they simply don't want to.

[ataradov]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!

You don't get it, not used, "burned in". It is got to be way more expensive, you have a bargain here.

[basinstreetdesign]

   The last time I saw something like this was in a magazine for US$800.  It was a metal box and included power cable connectors so that your gold-plated audio power cables could be burned in.  And it took only a week of continuous excersize!   

[cdev]

Dave,

you should invite them to explain their apparatus's theory of operation.

[tszaboo]

Dave,

you should invite them to explain their apparatus's theory of operation.

It is clearly explained:

When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality.
Although the cable signal is an alternating current, small impurities in the conductor act as diodes allowing signal flow to be better in one direction over time. This effect is also called quantum tunneling, w hich has been observed in experiments over 25 years ago. Regardless of the purity of the metal used, there are still diode effects in all conductors. In addition, the insulation material will change when it is subjected to an electrical field.

See, diodes in the cable and quantum tunneling. Probably also resonance cascade, thermal micro singularities and bos taurus excrement.

[Electro Detective]

Holy Bullshit Batman

Almost $10k USED!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

US $9,499.00

From $442 for 24 months


Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair, at that -Buy It Now- price (small change/maccas money for serious audiophools)  Thor should deliver and install,

and to sweeten the deal two Valkyries spend a week with the purchaser (male or female) to ensure EVERYTHING is operating correctly
and offer protection from underhanded s*** by Loki or the Enchantress 


Seller information: highperformancestereocom (345 )
100% Positive feedback

It's no brainer    unless you have a real listening room and need 8 meters and a bigger cheque book   

[mcinque]

So let me understand: they sell and promote supreme quantum treated cables capable to transport every single detail of signal (sound) from source to the speakers without any loss. Huge materials, insulations, connectors, plating for a small bandwith of 20-20KHz. Even power cables should be silver quantum treated (while the house mains cabling, up to the power grid, is standard copper).

Now this silly device to do "Burn-in" treatement to the cables.

But in all this attention to details, they don't care or take in consideration that the original sound came out from a guitar or a synth or has been caught by a mic that use internally standard copper wire and has traveled to the mixer thru standard or "unquantum untreated quality" studio cables?

Why the "end-user" cables should be treated while the source not?

[Electro Detective]

So let me understand: they sell and promote supreme quantum treated cables capable to transport every single detail of signal (sound) from source to the speakers without any loss. Huge materials, insulations, connectors, plating for a small bandwith of 20-20KHz. Even power cables should be silver quantum treated (while the house mains cabling, up to the power grid, is standard copper).

Now this silly device to do "Burn-in" treatement to the cables.

But in all this attention to details, they don't care or take in consideration that the original sound came out from a guitar or a synth or has been caught by a mic that use internally standard copper wire and has traveled to the mixer thru standard or "unquantum untreated quality" studio cables?

Why the "end-user" cables should be treated while the source not?

Apparently the cable compensates for all those shortcomings,

and saves on  recording the performances all over again and re-releasing the product as Audiophile Quality

i.e. Let the discerning customers pay for it   


Seller's Link: How to Install Speaker Cable

www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Install-Speaker-Cable-/10000000178706037/g.html

Check out the red and white 'speaker connectors' before reading the rest of it



 

[mcinque]

Check out the red and white 'speaker connectors' before reading the rest of it

[martinator]

Those cables are useless without the Actinium cable elevation blocks to keep the cables from touching the ground, otherwise you get seismic microphonic transconductance inertia every time you involuntarily vent due to the relaxing sounds of Sade. How could you idiots not know that?

[stj]

Those cables are useless without the Actinium cable elevation blocks to keep the cables from touching the ground,

no worries - they have those!!

 

[Roeland_R]

When my bluetooth connection is bad I use BlueTooth Paste. Made it myself and am working on a patent. Also developping a very special BlueToothBrush. Anyone interested? [emoji14]

[hermit]

When my bluetooth connection is bad I use BlueTooth Paste. Made it myself and am working on a patent. Also developping a very special BlueToothBrush. Anyone interested? [emoji14]

Sorry.  Your marketing jargon is quite deficient.  Perhaps it is the language barrier?  Does it fill quantum cavities?  Does it leave the signal minty fresh?  Does it leave the signal squeaky clean?  I need to know these things before investing.  It will take suitable answers to these questions in suitably flowery terms before I part with my hardly earned spit coins.

[mcinque]

For a laugh have a very close look at the legs of the LEDs down the middle of the gold connectors.

Nope, those are specifically bended legs to be harmonically tuned with alpha centauri resonance.

[GreggD]

Audio speaker cables should be run as straight as possible. They should be placed across the earths magnetic field not aligned with the field so as not to cause back EMF as current flows to and from the speakers.

[mcinque]

Another one...

this one it's cheaper, starting from 999$

https://www.thecablecooker.com/

[Buriedcode]

This is some shitty layout.

That's what I was thinking.  Looks like Eagle autoroute that hasn't even been tidied up.  Also, why socket the IC's and resistor networks? Sure I used to do it for TH projects so I could re-purpose the devices, but why?

[hans]

I was most surprised by the amount of decoupling capacitors on the board.

Although.. maybe I am expecting too much.. like as if it matters that the device is 'functional'.

[mcinque]

At http://www.sonicflare.com/archives/acoustic-zen-adagio-jr-followup-w-dk.php they say that

the Nordost cable burner flashes like a disco when it's on

It has many blinking lights, so it works. Right?

[mcinque]

Just in theme of break-in/burn-in, I found this interesting tech-article about testing speakers before and after burn-in and comparing the results.

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

The are no differences in impedence and frequency response, the only change was in SPL (1dB) and is inegible.

Speakers are electomecanichal devices and there is more "low level" physics involved in them (speaker suspension modifications due to stress, glue used in the box, screws etc), so if there is no change in audio in them after the break-in, how one can even believe to change something in a cable?

[Mechatrommer]

hey dont blame the manufacturer. when there are customers there will be the market. at least this market will make those fat arses in new greenwich work much harder.

[boffin]

I found a High res photo here:
http://nordost.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Vidar.jpg

You can see that most of the chips are just 74HC, (including one that's marked 74HC04) the 'orange' chips are just 220R resistor packs.  I wonder how the guys like having all that digital next to their precious analogue cables.

[mcinque]

hey dont blame the manufacturer. when there are customers there will be the market.

I disagree. This kind of bullshit is dramatically similar to homeopathy and false cancer cures; they exploit the ignorance of people that become victims.

[grumpydoc]

"When cables are first put into use, their directionality is not securely established. However, once the Vidar begins running current through the cables, the trapped gases are dissipated and small impurities in the conductor’s metal begin to act like a diode, favoring current flow in a particular direction. By using extremely wide bandwidth signal as well as a range of both ultra-low and high frequency sweeps, the Vidar stresses the conductors, neutralizes charges, improves the way that signals pass through metal and  ultrasonically conditions the surface of the conductors. It is these changes in both the conductor and insulation material that refines performance in audio cables."

Rats   

I forgot to fit my bullshit meter with its 50000dB input attenuator so this just turned it into a smoking heap as soon as I navigated to the page - despite being in a completely separate room.

The idea that anyone would believe this crap leaves me at a loss for words.

[ataradov]

The idea that anyone would believe this crap leave me at a loss for words.

Now wait a minute. I think we need to study this effect of diodes forming in wires. I think $10mil will cover this research nicely. Time to apply for government funding and/or KS.

I've also heard that this effect shows itself even more in Hawaii, so that's where we will establish the lab.

[Cerebus]

Now wait a minute. I think we need to study this effect of diodes forming in wires. I think $10mil will cover this research nicely. Time to apply for government funding and/or KS.

I've also heard that this effect shows itself even more in Hawaii, so that's where we will establish the lab.

The grants committee has considered your application and has approved it with one condition, They have been informed that the Earth's magnetic field is at the wrong angle in Hawaii, but fortuitously ideal conditions can be found in either Siberia or Kamchatka.

[gamalot]

Those are old fashioned resistor networks. 

[kalel]

Are there any review videos of these types of devices?

[peteb2]

The entire class of followers of Audiophoolery will never go away. I guess that if they have an enjoyment from listening to prerecorded music (etc) and that they have a massive and bottomless to most of us disposable income for such superfluous toys then i am not one to complain as long as they are not my neighbours cranking up the system in the wee hours.

I made the stupid move once to enter a HiFi AudioPhool Retail outlet (purely to see if there were any tube/valved systems and what the retailed for) hidden away in a quaint back alley of a busy city. There were other customers there one of whom eventually spoke to me and the conversation soon came to a point that it was all about the 'Sound'.

With 40+ years in electronics and much in Studio Broadcast maintenance  i took this  'believer' on a merry-go-round finishing with the classic that my ears are able to discern the mode by which the mains electricity operating any topend system has been generated, either by Hydro-turbine, Gas fired, Geo-thermal or Solar.... The chap agreed entirely...

Proof you can get these people to believe anything....

[vltr]

This is some shitty layout.

That's what I was thinking.  Looks like Eagle autoroute that hasn't even been tidied up.  Also, why socket the IC's and resistor networks? Sure I used to do it for TH projects so I could re-purpose the devices, but why?

The sockets obviously allow you to send it in to "The Guru" who for the low low price of $500 dollars with spend 3 months replacing each IC with genuine vintage NOS components originally specced for NASA.

[vk6zgo]

The entire class of followers of Audiophoolery will never go away. I guess that if they have an enjoyment from listening to prerecorded music (etc) and that they have a massive and bottomless to most of us disposable income for such superfluous toys then i am not one to complain as long as they are not my neighbours cranking up the system in the wee hours.

I made the stupid move once to enter a HiFi AudioPhool Retail outlet (purely to see if there were any tube/valved systems and what the retailed for) hidden away in a quaint back alley of a busy city. There were other customers there one of whom eventually spoke to me and the conversation soon came to a point that it was all about the 'Sound'.

With 40+ years in electronics and much in Studio Broadcast maintenance  i took this  'believer' on a merry-go-round finishing with the classic that my ears are able to discern the mode by which the mains electricity operating any topend system has been generated, either by Hydro-turbine, Gas fired, Geo-thermal or Solar.... The chap agreed entirely...

Proof you can get these people to believe anything....

I have a similar background to you, & have the same attitude to  the "Golden Ears" brigade.
On two separate occasions, though,I have been caught out when someone I had dismissed as a member of that group actually did hear something different.

The first occasion was when I was employed at a Manned country TV/FM site.
One bloke maintained that there was a phase error between the Stereo channels of the ABCFM  transmission.
Nobody else could hear it, though in fairness, we were listening in the quite noisy transmitter control room & he used Stereo headphones.

The ABC, unlike some others, sent baseband L & R out on the feed.
Because they had many remote sites, they, in conjunction with Telecom Aust, inserted very low level 15kHz pilot tones on each channel.

The device which monitored these was set up to determine loss of signal, not phase error, but it gave us something to look at.
And ,yes, there was a phase error.
It turns out that part of the feed was via landline.
One side of the Stereo pair failed, & the local Telecom Techs re-routed it via an extra 160km  work-around.
They were more used to finding feeds for Mono AM.

The next occasion was at a Commercial TV Station, where someone reported  low level "white noise" on the TV sound, on one particular Aural exciter.
We checked, couldn't hear it, or see anything with a Spectrum Analyser.
Called him a "Golden ear".
Ultimately, the exciter got worse,spreading the noise across the pass band.

[mcinque]

The first occasion was when I was employed at a Manned country TV/FM site.
We checked, couldn't hear it, or see anything with a Spectrum Analyser.
Called him a "Golden ear".
Ultimately, the exciter got worse,spreading the noise across the pass band.

So that bloke discovered noise that nobody else or even instruments can hear?
Sorry, I don't want to offend you, but unless he was the guy that injected before that noise intentionally just to fake discovering it after, I can't believe this story: if nobody else could hear it and it was not measurable, it wasn't real.

Also, could be interesting to know how many other "discoveries" that bloke did in years that wasn't correct as this you reported. I mean, it's like rabdomancy: just say there is water under this or that place and after 20 drillings you will find something for sure.

[ruffy91]

Most receivers and audio gear have lower noise floor than a spectrum analyser. So it's plausible.

[vk6zgo]

The first occasion was when I was employed at a Manned country TV/FM site.
We checked, couldn't hear it, or see anything with a Spectrum Analyser.
Called him a "Golden ear".
Ultimately, the exciter got worse,spreading the noise across the pass band.

So that bloke discovered noise that nobody else or even instruments can hear?
Sorry, I don't want to offend you, but unless he was the guy that injected before that noise intentionally just to fake discovering it after, I can't believe this story: if nobody else could hear it and it was not measurable, it wasn't real.

Also, could be interesting to know how many other "discoveries" that bloke did in years that wasn't correct as this you reported. I mean, it's like rabdomancy: just say there is water under this or that place and after 20 drillings you will find something for sure.

He heard some noise on one particular exciter, the real fault was on that exciter.
It wasn't really all that odd that he picked up on it, he was listening at home in a low ambient noise environment, whereas we listened to it in Master Control, with all the normal background noise of a busy TV Studio.

The fact that the SA didn't see it is not that unusual, either, as looking at it at the exciter output meant that it was very close to the first Sound Carrier, which probably hid it in the early stages of development.

Looking at the demodulated Audio meant running into the low frequency limitations of the Tektronix 7L12 plug in, where any noise was probably hidden by the "zero" mark of the SA.
My point here, was not that either of these people had some sort of "super sense", but that they listened for extended periods in excellent monitoring conditions, & picked up faults which were very hard to find otherwise.

If we had obtained a low frequency Spectrum Analyser & spent enough time, we would almost certainly have seen the noise.

[Jeroen3]

Most receivers and audio gear have lower noise floor than a spectrum analyser. So it's plausible.

How could they have determined this noise floor then?

Don't forget this 350 Euro ground wire.

[Mechatrommer]

hey dont blame the manufacturer. when there are customers there will be the market.

I disagree. This kind of bullshit is dramatically similar to homeopathy and false cancer cures; they exploit the ignorance of people that become victims.

in medical its different story. i've seen from time to time, a bunch of people who like to modify their car into hell car. the car become impractically slow on the road pissing off everybody behind. some of them even experience burnt car to the ground due to improper mod wiring. these people when you ask them to study hard in school they will show you a boring face but like to talk how good their car mod is, they struggle for the biggest speaker to blast their neighboorhood in the middle of the night. well, this bunch of people are the very right people as customers for this audio fool stuffs.

[SeanB]

This is some shitty layout.

That's what I was thinking.  Looks like Eagle autoroute that hasn't even been tidied up.  Also, why socket the IC's and resistor networks? Sure I used to do it for TH projects so I could re-purpose the devices, but why?

The sockets obviously allow you to send it in to "The Guru" who for the low low price of $500 dollars with spend 3 months replacing each IC with genuine vintage NOS components originally specced for NASA.

no, it is because the components and resistor networks will be contaminated by the burning in of the previous cable, and thus to burn in a new cable you have to replace all those parts, so the new cable will not get an unwanted colouration from the bad effects of those parts that have been subjected to the previous cable "newness" and which have thus been subjected to a parametric change that renders them unusable to be used on the new cable.

As well you will have to send it in for servicing every 20 cables or annually for a calibration and service, to ensure that all the internal cabling and connectors has not been contaminated by the burn in process, and that they will not cause any unwanted effects on the cables being burnt in. Calibration unfortunately is a long process, and might take a few months to accomplish correctly, so it is best to have 2 of the burn in units, so that you can have one in for calibration while using the other one.

Calibration and service unfortunately, due to the specialised and arduous testing required, does cost a little more, and is only $5000 per unit, postage and shipping to and from sadly being the customers responsibility, along with insurance. Payment with request for service only, by bank draft, International letter of credit, bank guaranteed cheque or cash with device only, due to unforseen circumstances that have occurred before.

[StillTrying]

Quantum QRT Resonance Technology
QKORE GROUND UNIT

only £4,900.00 for an empty aluminium box.

http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20QKORE.htm

The contents of this site are not meant to mislead.

LOL

[Spuddevans]

I wonder how long you should "burn in" the "burn in" device before using it to "burn in" cables 

Tim

[Cerebus]

I wonder how long you should "burn in" the "burn in" device before using it to "burn in" cables 

Tim

2 hours, 1200 C.

[Jeroen3]

Quantum QRT Resonance Technology
QKORE GROUND UNIT

only £4,900.00 for an empty aluminium box.

http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20QKORE.htm

They work even better when you put the empty boxes on fancy cones.

[mcinque]

only £4,900.00 for an empty aluminium box.

Except that is not alluminium but a "special magic tesla quantum proprietary alloy", I'm unable to understand how that would create ground.

[mcinque]

Nordost has reached a level of ridiculousness that I never encountered before.

"a fluid that can be wiped on the surface of cables to disperse existing static charge as well as inhibit future accumulation. The effects are easily heard, with a dramatic increase in the sense of life and presence, greater transparency, wider dynamics and richer colors."

"ECO 3X is also very effective for treating Compact Discs. When applied to the label side of a CD you will notice a large improvement in sound quality, as stray electrical charges that build up on the discs are removed. Eliminating this noise at the source results in a much more detailed and musical performance."


http://www.nordost.com/accessories/eco-3x.php
http://www.analogueseduction.net/cable-treatment/nordost-eco-3x-static-inhibitor.html

Water and maybe aroma, just €44.75

[taydin]

It isn't possible to make any fraud claims for these, because the human hearing and the satisfaction that you are getting from your 10K cable cannot be quantified by court. So if the sucker likes the sound of that cable and is willing to shell out the money, then who's to blame the manufacturer?

[Ian.M]

They are definitely bad boys.  Nordost is incorporated in the USA but they don't publish a MSDS for their 'ECO 3X' fluid.   

[taydin]

Those guys at Nordost are highly acclaimed artist even !!! 

Firstly, they master the art of creating advanced bullshit marketing paragraphs, which sound quite plausible to the uninitiated.
And secondly, they master the art of robbing somebody of their hard earned cash and having the victim thank them and shake their hand after the fact

[ataradov]

I'm not sure if that cash is so hard earned, when you can spare $9000 for a cable. That's for rich people, that learned the magic of compound interest.

[mcinque]

It isn't possible to make any fraud claims for these, because the human hearing and the satisfaction that you are getting from your 10K cable cannot be quantified by court. So if the sucker likes the sound of that cable and is willing to shell out the money, then who's to blame the manufacturer?

Of course but I think it's not dignified to make money by exploiting people's technical ignorance.

[ataradov]

Of course but I think it's not dignified to make money by exploiting people's technical ignorance.

It is not about technical ignorance, it is about lack of critical thinking. And I believe it is perfectly fine to exploit that.

And sometimes it is also about showing off. There is no reason anyone needs $100000 Vertu Android phone, but certain groups of people consider it cool and a status symbol.

[Twoflower]

Except that is not alluminium but a "special magic tesla quantum proprietary alloy", I'm unable to understand how that would create ground.

Don't you remember the 'wireless ESD hand-wrist' (EEvBlog #768)? They're using the same technique!

[Cerebus]

Of course but I think it's not dignified to make money by exploiting people's technical ignorance.

It is not about technical ignorance, it is about lack of critical thinking. And I believe it is perfectly fine to exploit that.

And sometimes it is also about showing off. There is no reason anyone needs $100000 Vertu Android phone, but certain groups of people consider it cool and a status symbol.

Apparently they don't, as Vertu went bust back in July.

[ataradov]

Apparently they don't, as Vertu went bust back in July.

Was not aware of that. Now I have to buy a Ferrari, I guess

I feel like all those audio scam companies are not getting all that many orders, it is just their operating expenses are very minimal, and you can probably run one of those as a side business.

[technix]

Apparently they don't, as Vertu went bust back in July.

Was not aware of that. Now I have to buy a Ferrari, I guess

I feel like all those audio scam companies are not getting all that many orders, it is just their operating expenses are very minimal, and you can probably run one of those as a side business.

Since I am designing a Bluetooth headphone adapter, maybe I should also set up a "audiophile" branch, selling the same circuit board but in a different case, and maybe have the decency to put in the work fine tuning the DSP matrices a bit... For this design there are likely a few times more work being put into the product, fine tuning the DSP matrices, than those...

[tszaboo]

Apparently they don't, as Vertu went bust back in July.

Was not aware of that. Now I have to buy a Ferrari, I guess

I feel like all those audio scam companies are not getting all that many orders, it is just their operating expenses are very minimal, and you can probably run one of those as a side business.

Since I am designing a Bluetooth headphone adapter, maybe I should also set up a "audiophile" branch, selling the same circuit board but in a different case, and maybe have the decency to put in the work fine tuning the DSP matrices a bit... For this design there are likely a few times more work being put into the product, fine tuning the DSP matrices, than those...

Come on, bluetooth is not really audiophile. Not because it is compressed and clocks and wireless. Because it is digital. Everyone know digital is bad. Cylinder phonographs are the real deal.

[cdev]

There are credible arguments for using a lot more bits and faster sampling rates in digital audio and they are legitimate - what they do it for is to get more dynamic range and more ability to process the signal many times without multiplying errors..

[free_electron]

diode ? yeah. sure go stick a diode in your audio path. it will get very interesting .... dumbasses
and run off the mill ST opamps ? if they at least had used some exotic analog devices or burr-brown part ...

[free_electron]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

Used ? yuckk . who knows what usic has run through those cables. i don't want any residual metallica electrons contaminating my bachs 5th overture ...

[Electro Detective]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

Used ? yuckk . who knows what usic has run through those cables. i don't want any residual metallica electrons contaminating my bachs 5th overture ...

or banged b!tch electrons from rap moozique   

[Buriedcode]

Since I am designing a Bluetooth headphone adapter, maybe I should also set up a "audiophile" branch, selling the same circuit board but in a different case, and maybe have the decency to put in the work fine tuning the DSP matrices a bit... For this design there are likely a few times more work being put into the product, fine tuning the DSP matrices, than those...

Probably too late to the market, as I keep seeing 'Apt-X lossless' being thrown about (doesn't exist), along with claims of 24-bit @ 96kHz (with the Apt-x enabled transport of 16-bit@48kHz).  These are of course not from trusted sources but I don't think Qualcomm is going to correct anyone.

Generally, anything that an engineer can think of to 'improve' quality won't cut it.  It has to be expensive and unique, both of which are seen as signs it "must be good".  This is why a lot of "audiophool products" are so basic.  No complicated electronics, DSP, or acoustic design, but a basic cable WITH ALIGNED CRYSTALS.  Or a very simple valve amp, with capacitors 'rescued' from the the iron curtain, and transformers, wound to receive the shumann resonance.  Any actual 'technology'.. many will trust engineers, but add some unique mystery to it, and engineers know nothing - they're just sheeple or part of the conspiracy.

[dashpuppy]

Notice in this picture, it shows you whats inside a pair of 10K$ pair of speaker cables.  I bet the piece of the outer jacket of the cut off of that cable is helping as it's glued into the box for weight.   FAIL !

[ataradov]

This is proverbial virgin snot, it makes things sound better

[vk6zgo]

Most receivers and audio gear have lower noise floor than a spectrum analyser. So it's plausible.

How could they have determined this noise floor then?

Don't forget this 350 Euro ground wire.

Well, to determine the noise floor at baseband, they would have done a conventional signal/noise test, 
similar to that which we did as a normal routine, except they would use a calibrated standard modulator.

That said, I don't think the noise floor is that spectacular with any intercarrier sound receiver.

I think the main problem with the SA was lack of resolution at the thirty odd MHz IF frequency, &, for the baseband case, running out of range at the low end of its coverage.

The FFT range on a DSO may have done the trick, but such Devices were only in their infancy at that time.

In both the cases I related, there was no question of the problem being something that could only be heard by the "gifted".
They were real faults which were not immediately apparent in the relatively limited time available to busy Technical staff, but did appear to an enthusiast listening in a good monitoring situation.

In both cases, the people concerned were staff members, not random audiophiles "off the street".

[ChrisLX200]

Assuming you're never going to get better signal quality out of a system than that of the source you push into it, just what are these audiophool zealots using as a music source? I'm pretty sure none of the common recording methods (and uncommon ones...) involved the use of any of this phoolery. :-)

[free_electron]

Apparently they don't, as Vertu went bust back in July.

Was not aware of that. Now I have to buy a Ferrari, I guess

I feel like all those audio scam companies are not getting all that many orders, it is just their operating expenses are very minimal, and you can probably run one of those as a side business.

Since I am designing a Bluetooth headphone adapter, maybe I should also set up a "audiophile" branch, selling the same circuit board but in a different case, and maybe have the decency to put in the work fine tuning the DSP matrices a bit... For this design there are likely a few times more work being put into the product, fine tuning the DSP matrices, than those...

Come on, bluetooth is not really audiophile. Not because it is compressed and clocks and wireless. Because it is digital. Everyone know digital is bad. Cylinder phonographs are the real deal.

Real audiophiles hire the orchestra to come play live. any form of recording is lossy. Wanna listen to Gaga ? pay a few million.

[mcinque]

Notice in this picture, it shows you whats inside a pair of 10K$ pair of speaker cables.

Source please, pleeeeease!

[mcinque]

I found some true EE in audiophile cables, a Zobel network.

It's only a bit overpriced but at least it's science.

[Fungus]

small impurities in the conductor’s metal begin to act like a diode, favoring current flow in a particular direction.

Um, isn't that a bad thing for an AC signal?

Surely even audiophools know about diodes and AC. 

[technix]

Probably too late to the market, as I keep seeing 'Apt-X lossless' being thrown about (doesn't exist), along with claims of 24-bit @ 96kHz (with the Apt-x enabled transport of 16-bit@48kHz).  These are of course not from trusted sources but I don't think Qualcomm is going to correct anyone.

What I am trying is a multi-input multi-output device that can function with any combination of Bluetooth, USB, line-level analog and headphone with mic.

Generally, anything that an engineer can think of to 'improve' quality won't cut it.  It has to be expensive and unique, both of which are seen as signs it "must be good".  This is why a lot of "audiophool products" are so basic.  No complicated electronics, DSP, or acoustic design, but a basic cable WITH ALIGNED CRYSTALS.  Or a very simple valve amp, with capacitors 'rescued' from the the iron curtain, and transformers, wound to receive the shumann resonance.  Any actual 'technology'.. many will trust engineers, but add some unique mystery to it, and engineers know nothing - they're just sheeple or part of the conspiracy.

I may end up selling some slightly better tuned DSP matrices...

[technix]

There are credible arguments for using a lot more bits and faster sampling rates in digital audio and they are legitimate - what they do it for is to get more dynamic range and more ability to process the signal many times without multiplying errors..

True, but human senses don't have infinite resolution either, as determined by the laws of thermodynamics and the finite power draw of a human brain (about 45W as chemical energy). There is no point designing a circuit that can go beyond that. You start to burn performance and money away on minute details that even yourself cannot process.

[ruffy91]

There are credible arguments for using a lot more bits and faster sampling rates in digital audio and they are legitimate - what they do it for is to get more dynamic range and more ability to process the signal many times without multiplying errors..

True, but human senses don't have infinite resolution either, as determined by the laws of thermodynamics and the finite power draw of a human brain (about 45W as chemical energy). There is no point designing a circuit that can go beyond that. You start to burn performance and money away on minute details that even yourself cannot process.

A 100Gb/s optical transceiver uses <3.5W so we should use AT LEAST 1Tb/s for true audiophile music transmission.


ATM I'm creating an audiophile converter which converts a spotify stream to a 64bit, 15.625GHz WAV.
I also sell audiophile cloud storage for your converted streams, just 499,95$/TB. The clouds are made of absolutely pure nitrogen.

[technix]

There are credible arguments for using a lot more bits and faster sampling rates in digital audio and they are legitimate - what they do it for is to get more dynamic range and more ability to process the signal many times without multiplying errors..

True, but human senses don't have infinite resolution either, as determined by the laws of thermodynamics and the finite power draw of a human brain (about 45W as chemical energy). There is no point designing a circuit that can go beyond that. You start to burn performance and money away on minute details that even yourself cannot process.

A 100Gb/s optical transceiver uses <3.5W so we should use AT LEAST 1Tb/s for true audiophile music transmission.

OTOH a single 4-core 64-bit Xeon E3-1231v3 consumes about 80W at 3.6GHz. So 256-bit wide processing at 1.8GHz? Optical transceiver don't process information, so not quite comparable here.

ATM I'm creating an audiophile converter which converts a spotify stream to a 64bit, 15.625GHz WAV.
I also sell audiophile cloud storage for your converted streams, just 499,95$/TB. The clouds are made of absolutely pure nitrogen.

Mine may be more realistic, with a finely tuned DSP matrix that can boost your 16-bit@48kHz to 24-bit@96kHz performance.

[ruffy91]

I don't think I'm that far off. A GTX 1080 will do ~8000 GFLOPS with 180 W and has a memory bandwith of 320GB/s
So with 45 W 80GB/s (~600Gb/s) and 2000 GFLOPS are possible (but I think these are half-precision). Also I think the brain should be more efficient than a current graphics card.

I sell my GTX 1080 where I changed all the electrolytics to foil capacitors (which are way better suited for audio as everyone knows). So that you can get all that clarity and width of the stage on your TV speaker via HDMI. Only 24'995$ and it's yours.

Also it should be able to decode the audiostream and sample it back down to 24bit/192kHz PCM so that your TV should be able to play it.

I think I'm way to technical to sell something to a sucker.

[CJay]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

I think somebody needs to ask them what sort of music has been played through those cables so they can be sure they've not been tainted

[CJay]

hey dont blame the manufacturer. when there are customers there will be the market.

I disagree. This kind of bullshit is dramatically similar to homeopathy and false cancer cures; they exploit the ignorance of people that become victims.

No, none of this is life threatening, a cancer cure which doesn't work is.

These items are a choice, medicines aren't and there's a reason why things like 'cancer cures' are illegal to advertise and sell.

Nobody dies because they got sold some bullshit cable conditioner.

[technix]

At least with FFT and a proper DSP matrix I am properly interpolating samples, extrapolating lower order bits and nulling out amplifier frequency response. At least there is a mathematical and physical basis for the audiophile-grade DSP action. Unlike this audiophoolery which is pure BS.

If you really need to make sure your speaker is behaving, instead of this ridiculousness, put the speaker in a feedback loop. High side current sensing isn’t that hard.

[daqq]

hey dont blame the manufacturer. when there are customers there will be the market. at least this market will make those fat arses in new greenwich work much harder.

So, don't blame the thief, blame the guy who left his wallet sticking out of his jacket a bit more than usual?

[Siwastaja]

It's not so serious.

Stupid idiots (who lack passion to do better things) con other stupid idiots (who have somehow succeeded getting money they most likely didn't deserve by doing anything sensible), and the rest get a good laugh (although it gets old very quickly).

Everybody wins, and everybody feels good. No need to victimize anyone.

If you feel bad because others are making "easy money" in immoral ways, just get over it and start doing valuable, moral things in your own life.

[daqq]

Stupid idiots (who lack passion to do better things) con other stupid idiots (who have somehow succeeded getting money they most likely didn't deserve by doing anything sensible), and the rest get a good laugh (although it gets old very quickly).

Everybody wins, and everybody feels good. No need to victimize anyone.

Legit manufacturers suffer when people just spec things with bullshit numbers. Lets say that you spend years on R&D, creating a device/method that actually improves sound quality by a little bit. You publish the true and proper specs and await your audio quality possessed customers business... which doesn't come, because they bought the Scam-O-Tron that eliminates noise by means of Quantum Gobbledygook and has much better (claimed) specs than your system.

Basically not combating bullshit claims is in the long run hurting legit manufacturers and the customers. The customer might not know it (audiophiles) or might find out too late (fake cancer 'treatment' victims), but they aren't getting their moneys worth.

While I do chuckle and laugh at the BS claims, devices, prices, I'd love to see the guys selling these devices behind bars.

If you feel bad because others are making "easy money" in immoral ways, just get over it and start doing valuable, moral things in your own life.

During my whole life of designing and making useful, functioning, non-scamy devices that actually do some good I will probably not make what a good scam artist makes in a week.

So, yeah, I'm not that OK with this concept and view people who knowingly and intentionally deceive people for gain in this manner as evil.

[Siwastaja]

I don't think these scam artists make too much. This business is probably based on very low operational costs, and they celebrate every single order. I guess there is quite a competition because this kind of scam is so easy to set up, only a little bit of imagination and some social skills needed. Generally high moral of an average person I believe in, is the only limiting factor.

Note that while it may look like they are actually selling the products in significant numbers (e.g., by claiming distributors, or actually having them distributed at physical stores, or having "used" units sold at Ebay, or posting "user experiences" on the Internet), that is just a part of the strategy to make them look like a "real player", most likely fabricated.

There is a lot more immorality - and moneyz 4-5 orders of magnitude higher - going on in established, well respected large businesses, especially in the field of medicine, healthcare, food chain, attorneys of law, you name it. Even when it's really affecting the lives of millions of people in horrific ways, and the immoral (even criminal, but rarely goes to court) gain is measured in billions instead of tens of thousands, the risk of getting negative attention is extremely small (every now and then, one big company gets to be the "bad guy" for a while, but nothing actually ever happens); quite contrary to the audiophoolery scams, which "everyone" is eager to expose, because it's so simple, and not so scary to do.

And it's not scary to expose cable con artists, because they are so freaking pathetic, and utterly meaningless.

If you were to really try to change the world by exposing the really "bad things", you'd most likely get killed. So people look up to them, and respect them as model citizens. And they usually have billions of $.

So these audiophoolery artists are like the least respected lowest level criminals everybody spit at.

Also, money is not the most important thing in the world. Enjoy the fact how you have earned what you have; if you are unhappy with the number of monetary units in your hands, work ways to make more without compromising your moral. If you find it difficult, it's most likely because deep down, you are not so motivated on the money side of things; I consider this means you have healthy relationship with money, so I respect it. Keep doing good things, and it's quite likely the money will follow automatically. And when it happens, you'll have a clear conscience.

[Cerebus]

Nobody dies because they got sold some bullshit cable conditioner.

They do when SWMBO finds the receipt...

[Cerebus]

So, yeah, I'm not that OK with this concept and view people who knowingly and intentionally deceive people for gain in this manner as evil.

You're making the assumption that there is both an actus reus and mens rea (that is a guilty act and a guilty mind) involved. Over the years I've met a few manufacturers of audiophile products that actually believe their own claims; they aren't making it up for the sake of conning someone, they are just implementing received wisdom and charging the market price for it.

I vaguely knew (40 years ago, yes this rubbish has been going on a long time) one manufacturer of very high end valve amps who did extraordinary things to condition parts before using them, conditioning that actually cost time and money, and was totally unnecessary. He had a side line in importing (mostly for personal use) very high grade cannabis resin, which goes some way to explaining his outré belief systems. So they aren't all crooks, some are merely credulous fools. I'd say the split is probably 50:50.

[Fungus]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

I think somebody needs to ask them what sort of music has been played through those cables so they can be sure they've not been tainted

Cable memory can be a terrible thing. They might take months to reform if they've had country music played over them.

Nobody dies because they got sold some bullshit cable conditioner.

No, but it's a slippery slope once you start valuing opinions as being equal to facts.

Next thing you're not vaccinating your children (or whatever).

[Cerebus]

Cable memory can be a terrible thing. They might take months to reform if they've had country music played over them.

The kindest thing would be to take them around to the back of the barn and shoot them.

[james_s]

The purpose and function of this class of device are in fact very well known.  It's well established as an efficient and highly effective tool for separating credulous individuals from their money.  Don't forget to draw arrows on your CAT5s so the data knows which way to go.

Came here to say that.

It looks like it would be very effective at draining your wallet, not much else.

[stj]

i am considering selling special soap - made by elves!!

you wash your ears with it to increase sensitivity to higher & lower frequency's.
(this is not a medical claim - so the FDA can get f'd) 

[Ian.M]

No No. NO! - that'd be dangerously close to a medical claim.

It 'clarifies your auditory response to the tonality of the sound stage' (i.e. washes away some earwax)

[Cyberdragon]

Someone should start selling acoustic guitar amps as ultra-low-distortion electric guitar amps. Of course people will be stupid enough to buy it, they don't know how things work, and that would teach them a hard lesson.

[raptor1956]

Holy Bullshit Batman
Almost $10k USED!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nordost-Valhalla-2-speaker-cables-4-meter-pair-/263221331798

I think somebody needs to ask them what sort of music has been played through those cables so they can be sure they've not been tainted

Maybe low bitrate MP3's!


Brian

[hamster_nz]

Cable memory can be a terrible thing. They might take months to reform if they've had country music played over them.

An EEVblog Kickstarter idea - all I ask is 5% of sales :-)

Device X
A device that "conditions and reconditions audio cables"

(Pseudo)science behind it.

Like any other item you own, cables and interconnects degrade over time, and the more "refined" and "specialized" the cable is, the faster it degrades as impurities and wear and tear take their toll, first making cables perform like low-end cables, and over time they will perform exactly like regular cables . Issues like work hardening (due to the flexing of the cables) and constant exposure to low frequencies signals, and the leaching of impurities from the insulator to the conductor. The initial stages of this process are wanted as "burning in" the cable, but it does not stop after the burn in period, and with extended use cables gradually "burn out". 

Very few people realize it, but similar to how the rubber surrounds that supports your speaker cones ages and change over time, degrading your system's performance, the cables and connectors age too.

Unlike speaker aging which is an irreversible process, Device X allows you to undo most of this damage, It sends a short, high current pulses down the cable - much higher voltage, current and frequencies than standard audio content . Connecting your cable to Device X and applying the current pulse causes any microscopic spots of resistance that have formed (for example, due to oxygen ingress into OFC wires) to microscopic defects of the heat up very quickly, and in tandem with the process of electromigration allows the connector and conductor to perform closer to "as new" condition.

For older cables, you can think of it is much like an Auto Battery Desulfator, which uses pulses of electricity to restore aged lead acid battery to function, it doesn't make it "like new" but it definitely restores a significant level of performance.

However, like the way human skin ages, cable damage in cumulative and cannot be completely rejuvenated, so to ensure that you maintain the sonic purity of your cables it is best to treat them with "Device X" at regular, monthly intervals, maintaining the cable's youth for as long as possible, for your listening pleasure.

As an extra feature, because it controls the direction of the pulse, it can also repair any damage that may have been caused by accidentally using directional cables the wrong way around, it can also make standard 'bidirectional' cables perform like their higher value 'directional' cousins.

Other features
Oh, it also has to charge from USB. That is a must. And Bluetooth - must have Bluetooth. Yes and Wifi to monitor the rejuvenation process with a HTML5 GUI, from anywhere on the planet.

Business model
Kickstarter for a limited edition run of 20 at at $1,999 each, and spend $300 on case aesthetics and cool looking sockets and $5 on a LM555 PCB and a $5 ESP32 for Wifi & Bluetooth for then we are onto a winner!

[james_s]

If I had less of a conscience I'd develop some sort of audiophool device. The engineering is easy, all it really has to do is pass an audio signal without horribly mangling it. The most important aspect is creatively describing what supposed benefits it offers, and make sure you use gold plated connectors and the most exotic looking components you can find. The vast majority of devices like this are simply expensive placebos, and to that extent they do work. The placebo effect is a real thing, if you believe something makes the music sound better then you will perceive it to sound somewhat better.

[TerraHertz]

Wow. The audacity of these guys. Cable burn in... I can't even...

I bet Mr Nordost was so peeved he couldn't find ultra-cheap BNC and Cannon connectors with that yellow fake-gold plating, to match all the others. Really spoils the look.

So, do you think there might be a market for 'controlled humidity environmental jackets' for audio cables? Because you know, all that random atmospheric moisture content must be playing Hell with the crystalline microstructure of the oxygen-free copper core cables. Probably half the time the current is actually reversing because of excess water.

Now I just need to find some PVC spaghetti tubing with a carbon-fiber pattern, and my fortune will be assured.


PS. Somehow I seem to have missed the existence of this topic on eevblog, till just now. It looks like a lot of fun.

[Brumby]

You should really learn to stop giving away all the good ideas!!

[fonograph]

This was funniest thread I ever read on this forum.     The LED leg alpha centauri resonance post made me almost cry from laughter. 

[AVGresponding]

You will also notice that R11 has been specifically tuned (by placing it at a slight angle), and solder joints are all randomly different in quality, so that no harmful resonance can build up.

Just found this thread, very entertaining Sunday morning read 

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

Come on, bluetooth is not really audiophile. Not because it is compressed and clocks and wireless. Because it is digital. Everyone know digital is bad.

Well… Just add 72V and it's became perfectly audiophilic. Even USB:
https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables

[Fungus]

Come on, bluetooth is not really audiophile. Not because it is compressed and clocks and wireless. Because it is digital. Everyone know digital is bad. Cylinder phonographs are the real deal.

Too much jitter on the bluetooth signals.