Author Topic: I'm loosing respect for Elon Musk... promises $1 rides in LA transit tunnels.  (Read 5977 times)

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Offline 3roomlab

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Even most of his ideas are not really practical, like what do we gain from space rockets he is building? I mean, we the common masses?

Communications satellites and weather satellites are used indirectly by almost everyone in every developed nation on earth, I'd say that launching satellites into orbit is a pretty hugely practical thing the common masses gain. The cheaper it is to launch satellites, the cheaper all this technology is to use.

I agree with james

but there is something more, before spacex, ULA/grumman have been using russian engines to do pentagon defense launch contracts. $0.98b in 2017, $1.2b this year? If I understood spacex proposal, using made in USA rockets, their cost to pentagon is less than $0.5b? (for 36 launches?). ULA have the audacity to suggest to the US senate that spacex are not reliable as a launch contractor. An american company, ULA, proposing to the government that using russian products is the way to have the most secure US defense  :-DD. very nice. very very nice  :-DD. the entire picture is just so weird to me, it is like the military contractors are not defending USA at all. How to describe this? they have become too fat drunk with profits to do their jobs?

nobody knows how much money is wasted or misused. Sen McCain was suppose to investigate this I think.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 09:01:03 am by 3roomlab »
why doesnt a black hole eat dark matter like it eats everything else?
 

Online wraper

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Even most of his ideas are not really practical, like what do we gain from space rockets he is building? I mean, we the common masses?
In addition to said above, what about satellite maps? Don't say you never used one. Never used GPS? SpaceX launched GPS satellite a few days ago.

SpaceX launched a payload (they didn't design or build and is therefore irrelevant) to a point in space for $$ the profits of which benefit their shareholders.

The only benefit we the common masses derived from that is we used at best a cheaper courier service or one who could deliver on time to that location for a price that was affordable in a budget.
I guess you need to be slapped with $100+ delivery charge on every online order you make. To let you think about it's importance. Nonetheless soon they will launch their own communication satellites.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 08:46:14 am by wraper »
 

Online beanflying

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I guess you need to be slapped with $100+ delivery charge on every online order you make. To let you think about it's importance. Nonetheless soon they will launch their own communication satellites.

What does that first sentence even mean or what point are you trying to make with it  :-//
As to your second line WOW SpaceX will be launching satellites to make $$ for shareholders and I am supposed to be impressed because?

SpaceX and your cult leader Musk is doing this for a $.
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Online wraper

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I guess you need to be slapped with $100+ delivery charge on every online order you make. To let you think about it's importance. Nonetheless soon they will launch their own communication satellites.

What does that first sentence even mean or what point are you trying to make with it  :-//
As to your second line WOW SpaceX will be launching satellites to make $$ for shareholders and I am supposed to be impressed because?

SpaceX and your cult leader Musk is doing this for a $.
It means that it makes space more accessible. When you pay for launch as much as for satellite itself or even more, it certainly does not help to develop space technologies. If you get charged $100 for delivery, you simply would not order most things online at all. If he was simply going after $, he would not invest all of his paypal money into Spacex and Tesla. There are far more profitable and less risky businesses. Both of them marginally survived. Starting private space launch company was especially crazy.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 09:11:23 am by wraper »
 

Online beanflying

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That makes more sense than an ambit claim made in your previous post. And I had stated it worded differently already in my post before that.

The only benefit we the common masses derived from that is we used at best a cheaper courier service or one who could deliver on time to that location for a price that was affordable in a budget.

Never Forget Tesla, SpaceX etc are listed companies and as such they are expected to make a profit for the shareholders. Never confuse the Musk myth of doing good for mankind with the first sentence.

While he indulges some brain farts because he can through Boardroom control or his own money being used his full commitment to the idea or concept above reason becomes an issue when it doesn't add up in the real world. For reasons of credibility, ego or keeping the share price up in his companies these concepts need to keep positive PR spin going even if they are going to be duds. Sometimes you need to walk away but for some that is just to hard.
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Online wraper

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SpaceX etc are listed companies and as such they are expected to make a profit for the shareholders.
Get your facts right first. Spacex is a private company.
 

Online beanflying

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SpaceX etc are listed companies and as such they are expected to make a profit for the shareholders.
Get your facts right first. Spacex is a private company.

Wow what a body blow to you  :-DD He still has shareholders regardless of it being private or public.
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Online wraper

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Wow what a body blow to you  :-DD He still has shareholders regardless of it being private or public.
Wow, Musk owns more than 50% of shares so he can do whatever he wants.
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Elon Musk Trust
(54% equity; 78% voting control)
 

Online beanflying

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Wow what a body blow to you  :-DD He still has shareholders regardless of it being private or public.
Wow, Musk owns more than 50% of shares so he can do whatever he wants.

Please READ what I wrote above about BOARDROOM control. I am aware of what share he has  :palm:
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Online beanflying

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You may also like to reflect on your debate technique and how this may be relevant.

Quote
Fanboy
An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.
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Online wraper

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Wow what a body blow to you  :-DD He still has shareholders regardless of it being private or public.
Wow, Musk owns more than 50% of shares so he can do whatever he wants.

Please READ what I wrote above about BOARDROOM control. I am aware of what share he has  :palm:
If he has majority control, he does not care whatever other shareholders may want. Secondly there is no such thing as share price in private company.
 

Online wraper

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You may also like to reflect on your debate technique and how this may be relevant.

Quote
Fanboy
An extreme fan or follower of a particular medium or concept, whether it be sports, television, film directors, video games (the most common usage), etc.

Known for a complete lack of objectivity in relation to their preferred focus. Usually argue with circular logic that they refuse to acknowledge. Arguments or debates with such are usually futile. Every flaw is spun into semi-virtues and everything else, blown to comedic, complimentary proportions.
At least I usually get my facts right. Instead of spewing out false facts/arguments. You would qualify for 'hater' pretty well.
 

Online beanflying

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[
Nope, it will be 30 miles in different directions  :palm:. They are not supposed to be in parallel. And as you won't be running one train in 15 minutes (or few minutes in decent underground) but a car every few seconds, throughput of 1 narrow tunnel probably will be even better than one crappy LA subway line has. Then multiply by 30.

Lets try this incorrect fact you tried to use. There are plenty more but I can't be bothered listing them or wasting further bandwidth on them.

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The Boring Company started construction on its first tunnel at the start of 2017, placed at the SpaceX campus, with a view to ultimately make tunneling more efficient and construct a network 30 layers deep in highly congested cities.

You were wrong by a factor of 30 tunnels to your one. I ignored it at the time because you had either clearly never read the quote or bothered to watch the video it was used in that I posted.
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Online wraper

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[
Nope, it will be 30 miles in different directions  :palm:. They are not supposed to be in parallel. And as you won't be running one train in 15 minutes (or few minutes in decent underground) but a car every few seconds, throughput of 1 narrow tunnel probably will be even better than one crappy LA subway line has. Then multiply by 30.

Lets try this incorrect fact you tried to use. There are plenty more but I can't be bothered listing them or wasting further bandwidth on them.

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The Boring Company started construction on its first tunnel at the start of 2017, placed at the SpaceX campus, with a view to ultimately make tunneling more efficient and construct a network 30 layers deep in highly congested cities.

You were wrong by a factor of 30 tunnels to your one. I ignored it at the time because you had either clearly never read the quote or bothered to watch the video it was used in that I posted.
So what are you refuting here by second quote? Does it state they are going to run them in parallel? Or your mind adds up what is not written there? Or what?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:13:52 am by wraper »
 

Online wraper

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https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-talks-plan-for-100-layers-of-boring-company-tunnels-in-la-2018-11
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By 3-D, Musk means making more tunnels — tunnels that go deeper into the earth's crust, where they can crisscross, overlap, and do things traditional tunnels haven't done because of how expensive they are to bore.
 

Online beanflying

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You repeated the claim of $10million/mile and 30 miles of tunnel which last time I worked it out was $300 million. This is complete  :bullshit:

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And then is sure as hell won't be 10 Million a mile. Please stop my brain hurts  :-D

It certainly does as you obviously cannot understand simple things. Please explain why it won't be 10 million?

30 layers deep covering even a portion of LA @ $10 million/mile is at least a factor of 30 more. So try $9 Billion+ and most likely double or triple that to make a workable system.

Are you in denial of the FACT that Musk/Boring company made a statement of '30 layers deep' ?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:26:59 am by beanflying »
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Online wraper

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You repeated the claim of $10/mile and 30 miles of tunnel which last time I worked it out was $300 million. This is complete  :bullshit:

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And then is sure as hell won't be 10 Million a mile. Please stop my brain hurts  :-D

It certainly does as you obviously cannot understand simple things. Please explain why it won't be 10 million?

30 layers deep covering even a portion of LA @ $10 million/mile is at least a factor of 30 more. So try $9 Billion+ and most likely double or triple that to make a workable system.

Are you in denial of the FACT that Musk/Boring company made a statement of '30 layers deep' ?
:bullshit: WTF are you talking about here? What I said is that every mile of tunnel has length of it's own. If you have 30 layers with 1 mile tunnel on each layer, it's 30 miles of tunnel length in total. But you obviously cannot get basic math right and still count them as 1 mile as if they run in parallel and have the same entry and exit points :palm:.
 

Online beanflying

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I can't argue with your logic as there is none.

30 miles (assuming that is a limit of sorts for LA) of tunnel 30 layers deep is 900 miles plus whatever interconnecting nodes and branches would be required is NOT 30 miles.

Or are you trying to suggest that Musk was proposing a 1 mile long system 30 layers deep to make your maths work?

Or is there a third option of larger pods in larger tunnels with maybe fixed destinations that makes sense like maybe a subway  :o
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Online wraper

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Please point to a single post of me mentioning length of tunnels they will need to build.
 

Online wraper

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I was particularly refuting this nonsense of yours.
So then you will have wasted $300 million a mile based on 'Musk's' figures  :-DD

Please give at least a ball park idea of the 'true' cost of moving 1 million humans a day on a tunnel system across a city like LA using individual or even shared pods to half the number of pods? $1x10^10 or 12?
 

Online wraper

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I can't argue with your logic as there is none.

30 miles (assuming that is a limit of sorts for LA) of tunnel 30 layers deep is 900 miles plus whatever interconnecting nodes and branches would be required is NOT 30 miles.

Or are you trying to suggest that Musk was proposing a 1 mile long system 30 layers deep to make your maths work?

Or is there a third option of larger pods in larger tunnels with maybe fixed destinations that makes sense like maybe a subway  :o
Even if they need to make 900 miles of tunnels for $9 billion, it would be awesome. This is the same as was spent to build 11 miles of LA subway or 3.5 miles of NY Second Avenue Subway :palm:. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/
 

Offline james_s

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Have you looked into the reason the subway is as expensive to build as it is? Why not apply Musk's lower cost building technique to expanding the existing subway? The subway/light rail is the future, private autonomous cars in tunnels will never happen. People who know what they're talking about say it doesn't scale, and I along with many other engineers agree.
 

Online wraper

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Have you looked into the reason the subway is as expensive to build as it is? Why not apply Musk's lower cost building technique to expanding the existing subway?
Because usual subway trains won't fit there.
 

Offline KL27x

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Because usual subway trains won't fit there.
Why would 30 tunnels take less space than 1 infinitely more efficient tunnel?

How would Elon stations for CARS fit in smaller spaces than those packed with humans without the automobile wrappers?

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Nope, it will be 30 miles in different directions  :palm:. They are not supposed to be in parallel. And as you won't be running one train in 15 minutes (or few minutes in decent underground) but a car every few seconds, throughput of 1 narrow tunnel probably will be even better than one crappy LA subway line has. Then multiply by 30.

Why do you trust Elon's involvement makes it possible to do this? He is such a genius to figure out how to load/unload cars into a tunnel like a gatling gun, but he couldn't apply the same thing to a slow moving subway car? With his genius and vision, he could have traditional trains arriving and leaving every station every 20 seconds. Miss your train? Don't worry, the next one is here in 3, 2, 1.. Bing! This could never result in half a million people packed like sardines in a hole for 20 hours while a billion dollar rescue mission is executed.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 12:46:58 pm by KL27x »
 

Online wraper

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Because usual subway trains won't fit there.
Why would 30 tunnels take less space than 1 infinitely more efficient tunnel?
It's apples vs oranges. Those tunnels would be in different directions. It's like comparing one big power transistor with 30 small ones and saying that the big one is better.
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Why do you trust Elon's involvement makes it possible to do this?
Why mentioning Elon causes so much butthurt for some people? I will just wait and look if something comes out of this.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 03:09:42 pm by wraper »
 


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