Author Topic: Tapplock  (Read 1200 times)

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Offline tsman

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Tapplock
« on: June 16, 2018, 10:00:45 am »
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/15/taplock_broken_screwdriver/

Major fail on multiple fronts. Physical, firmware and server all have glaring flaws. The only secret you needed to unlock it via BLE was the Bluetooth address itself. The API doesn't care who are you so long as you're logged in and will gladly give away all your account info over plain HTTP. The lock is made of a brittle alloy that snaps easily. Worst one is that the back of the lock can be easily unscrewed then the mechanism taken apart with just a Phillips screwdriver.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 11:16:13 am »
As has been the case so many times before, it turns out to be very hard to make a secure product. You can do a thousand things right, only to have a few omissions ruin the party. One leak can sink the boat.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2018, 02:19:15 pm »
A few ommisions? They didn't even try at all. :palm: :-DD

This is not a security device at this point, it's a children's toy. :--

They need to get the hell off the market...NOW, as they clearly don't know anything.
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 02:24:42 pm »
A few ommisions? They didn't even try at all. :palm: :-DD

This is not a security device at this point, it's a children's toy. :--

They need to get the hell off the market...NOW, as they clearly don't know anything.
You jest, but it really does seem to be an illustration how hard it is to develop a secure product. It's a pretty decent product otherwise, even good maybe. But security is so hard to do right and even major league players with tons of experience and resources fall flat on their face.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 02:36:03 pm »
What you describe is Masterlock, which usually has a few easy breach methods. No idea why they don't fix them but I guess for price reasons.

This thing has every single flaw in the book to the point of total uselessness other than intimidation. They had dirt simple sofware with no attempt at security at all beyond a password that was easily breached, their physical durability is weak, it can be shimmed (although so can Masterlock sometimes), cut, smashed, exc. They didn't even use security screws, and how secure is the back locking pin?

Yes, they say they are going to fix it, but letting the consumer teach you security 101 is usually not a good thing. How many more problems are lurking with it?
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline helius

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 04:33:20 pm »
"Security screws" are simply a nuisance, there is nothing secure about them. No reputable lock body contains security screws.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2018, 07:03:34 pm »
So much crap like this appearing on the market. Every feature you add to a security system is self-defeating.
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 03:53:42 pm »
You would not believe it, but this is not the most insecure smart lock. This one requires a Torx screwdriver and you can just open and close it back up without damaging the lock:

Alex
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 05:27:57 am »
"Security screws" are simply a nuisance, there is nothing secure about them. No reputable lock body contains security screws.

We're not talking about those toy screws you can open with an iFix kit. ::)

Use real security screws like...

https://www.brycefastener.com/key-rex-tamper-proof-screws-bolts.html
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Online bd139

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 05:33:22 am »
I could get one of them off in 5 seconds flat.
 

Offline dmills

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 06:22:13 am »
Any screw is a flat head when you have a battery powered dremel tool with a disk!

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 06:35:15 am »
"Security screws" are simply a nuisance, there is nothing secure about them. No reputable lock body contains security screws.
We're not talking about those toy screws you can open with an iFix kit. ::)
It actually doesn't matter how special the screws are. The entire concept of protecting a lock with a special kind of screw is amateurish.
In a real padlock, the screws (Phillips!) are beneath the shackle.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 06:40:41 am »
Any screw is a flat head when you have a battery powered dremel tool with a disk!

Regards, Dan.

Or a plant pot, sparkler, aluminium powder, iron oxide, sunglasses and a striped jumper.
 

Offline helius

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 06:46:22 am »
Opening locks with thermite is not that practical ;) It makes a big mess, and it's difficult to keep the slag in a useful place. "Breaking Bad" isn't a documentary...
However, thermic lances are used in some combat situations to achieve entry. Locksmiths prefer less crude methods.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 06:48:56 am by helius »
 

Online bd139

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 06:52:03 am »
IANAL (I am not a locksmith). Also I made thermite when I was at school in 1989 way before breaking bad and YouTube. I remember my chemistry teacher raising one eyebrow and saying “if I say no you’re just going to steal the chemicals and do it in the woods so I better let you do it here instead so I can call an ambulance if you burn your face off”
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2018, 06:54:00 am »
Never go for the lock, go for the bolt itself. The lovely high carbon steel lock, resistant to picking, bumping, grinder and such is almost always on a mild steel mount that is easier to cut. Did that with a very old Towne and Yale lock I wanted intact, so cut the steel bolt instead. Then drilled the pin out, made a key for it and put it back together again. I like that lock, even if it is not exactly secure these days, but it is a solid bronze unit.
 

Online CJay

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2018, 07:25:47 am »
IANAL (I am not a locksmith). Also I made thermite when I was at school in 1989 way before breaking bad and YouTube. I remember my chemistry teacher raising one eyebrow and saying “if I say no you’re just going to steal the chemicals and do it in the woods so I better let you do it here instead so I can call an ambulance if you burn your face off”

Hah, the tales I could tell but absolutely not on a public forum.

We left copious notes in the margins of the library chemistry books for future generations to follow.

(thermite was quite mild compared to some of the stuff we messed with)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 07:28:02 am by CJay »
M0UAW
 

Online CJay

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2018, 07:34:26 am »
Never go for the lock, go for the bolt itself. The lovely high carbon steel lock, resistant to picking, bumping, grinder and such is almost always on a mild steel mount that is easier to cut. Did that with a very old Towne and Yale lock I wanted intact, so cut the steel bolt instead. Then drilled the pin out, made a key for it and put it back together again. I like that lock, even if it is not exactly secure these days, but it is a solid bronze unit.

My wonderful ex lost the key for my old shed, her new bloke tried to cut the lock with various tools which all failed, he tried to cut the hasp, he tried to drill the core (snapped a bit in it) which was  fail as I had a spare key if only she'd asked first.

I took a junior hacksaw to the body of the lock and was into the shed in less than three minutes, locks vary :)
M0UAW
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2018, 07:42:29 am »
Round these parts:

What kind of key can open any lock?

A pikey!
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2018, 10:51:44 am »
At the point you have powertools to destroy the whole thing you're attacking the fasteners of coarse don't matter anymore. ::) That's not the point. The fasteners should always be at least as strong as the item, but being stronger than the material being fastened would be useless.

I could get one of them off in 5 seconds flat.

Again, if you have a large angle grinder to cut hardened steel, why are you going for the screws... ::)
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Online bd139

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2018, 04:35:45 pm »
That’s very true actually. When someone broke into our old shed, a flimsy metal structure, they just cut round the latch plate with some tin snips. They were very disappointed as there was only rusty shit that I hadn’t taken to the tip yet. And the shed was going to the tip too.
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2018, 03:38:03 am »
just about every security bold / screw on the market can be undone with the right size flathead screwdriver and some creativity, (Had to find some for my own company)

Turns out you can order custom screw heads pretty easily, went with a Reuleaux triangle with parrellel sides, so far short of cutting a slot they are not coming out with a flat head.

 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2018, 04:52:33 am »
Welder makes any screw an integral part of the material in a few seconds. Though why Xpanda decided that the nuts they supplied with the kit for the roller shutter must all be nylock nuts, as they all melted when the installer welded the nuts onto the studs to make it secure. When I had to undo these nuts to rebuild the gearbox ( they did not exactly go into any sort of QC on that part, as the new gears needed quite a bit of work on them with an angle grinder to first of all remove the casting sand in there, plus even more work to get them all to mesh in a method that was less Lada level clearance, and closer to something that would run smoothly. The old gears were so poorly meshing that they chipped off half the teeth in around 2 years and left a load of steel shards in the dry housing) I was able to grind out the weld and undo the nuts, and even was able to put the same nuts back again and weld them in place again, plus used a lot more grease than the dash of nasty sludge they used in the first place.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2018, 05:39:01 pm »
Turns out you can order custom screw heads pretty easily, went with a Reuleaux triangle with parrellel sides,

What would a "triangle with parallel sides" look like? Could you share a picture?
Thanks!
 
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Offline Rerouter

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Re: Tapplock
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2018, 09:13:28 pm »
sorry by parrellel sides, its the term they used for a non tapered hole, which required hot forming (or so they told me) as if it has a taper then a screwdriver can still turn it.
 
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