Author Topic: Snake oil  (Read 310103 times)

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Offline WorldPowerLabs

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2012, 05:17:21 am »
I do believe that there is merit to *some* types of unconventional electrotherapy for certain medical conditions.  I do think that Rife's research is promising, and it has been clinically proven that a minute DC current will stimulate bone growth in humans (I have a background in medical device design).
I'm not going to exclude the possibility that electric current might have some positive effect, but to claim that it has been clinically proven is not very scientific. Some studies have shown a benefit, others have shown no significant benefit. To conclude from weak and conflicting evidence that 'it's been clinically proven that it will help' is not very accurate.

More information here:  http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/300_399/0343.html
(Scroll down to "Electrical Stimulation for Nonunion" heading).  An excerpt:  "Available evidence suggests that each of these systems [implanted / capacitive] gives comparable success rates of 80 to 90 percent in properly selected patients.  There are no known side effects to treatment with electrical stimulation.... In 1979, the FDA approved [= safe and effective, emphasis mine] electrical stimulation therapy devices for treatment of nonunion, congenital pseudarthrosis, and failed fusion.  A number of prospective studies, including controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated the effectiveness of electrical stimulation in nonunions of long bones... Electrical stimulation therapy has not, however, been adequately evaluated for treatment of nonunions of the flat bones, such as the pelvis, scapula, and skull.  Nor has electrical stimulation therapy been well evaluated for treatment of fractures of the ribs or sternum."

As a side note (and unrelated to DC current), I used to work for Exogen on the refinement of the ultrasound fracture-healing systems mentioned in that article.  These absolutely work... patented and proven over several decades on humans and animals.  I have no connection with, or financial interest in, this particular company anymore -- this is just for information.
 
Now, I'm not claiming that the BS product mentioned in the original link is anything other than a scam.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 05:48:26 am by WorldPowerLabs »
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2012, 06:07:28 am »
What about the claim or inferred claim  that it cures infections of parasites etc the power requirement to stun worms would be painful if not harmful to humans.
 

Offline WorldPowerLabs

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2012, 06:30:32 am »
What about the claim or inferred claim  that it cures infections of parasites etc the power requirement to stun worms would be painful if not harmful to humans.

Yes, I don't see any legitimate mechanism by which that advertised device could do what it claims...

My comments are only intended to illustrate that electricity does have a certain place in medicine, and that certain types of treatments are in fact considered safe and effective... but there is certainly plenty of BS, too -- probably 95% BS and 5% legit...

 

Offline voidptr

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2012, 10:42:12 am »
I do believe that there is merit to *some* types of unconventional electrotherapy for certain medical conditions.  I do think that Rife's research is promising, and it has been clinically proven that a minute DC current will stimulate bone growth in humans (I have a background in medical device design).
I'm not going to exclude the possibility that electric current might have some positive effect, but to claim that it has been clinically proven is not very scientific. Some studies have shown a benefit, others have shown no significant benefit. To conclude from weak and conflicting evidence that 'it's been clinically proven that it will help' is not very accurate.

i did received electric shocks few years ago, not on my brain tho  :o
but on my ankle and muscle torn over ...  it helps a bit , i think...., it stimulates muscles so they can restart working better ... i think this is common practice since many years .... 

but  wait !  if i believed that document,  they can kill all kind of diseases ... cancer , bugs, worms, bacteries ...

cool ! i just order myself a waveform generator, im pretty sure i will tests all sort of waveform !  it doesn't have a frequency sweep with a square wave tho,  only freq sweep of the evil sinwave (read the doc),     but this isn t that hard to build one tho  ...
and at some point the device can kill bugs in hardware too if you crank up the clock until your design fail, might need in MHz tho :oP

beware, even if it is cool to kill all your diseases on you, it might kill you if you short your heart ... :-/

 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 10:46:26 am by voidptr »
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #79 on: June 12, 2012, 08:50:48 pm »
Greetings EEVBees:

--Check this one out. As I understand it the possible sums involved are not chicken feed.

http://vimeo.com/climaterealityproject/climate101

--A point by point refutation can be viewed here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/gore-and-bill-nye-fail-at-doing-a-simple-co2-experiment/

--Some of you are engineers. Leaving the greater issue of AGW aside for the moment. What do you think about the Scientific Rigor of this experiment.

“Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people."
W. C. Fields (William Claude Dunkenfield) 1880 - 1946

Best Regards
Clear Ether
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:14:06 am by SgtRock »
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2012, 01:56:39 am »
Greetings EEVBees:

--Check this one out. As I understand it the possible sums involved are not chicken feed.

http://vimeo.com/climaterealityproject/climate101

--A point by point refutation can be viewed here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/gore-and-bill-nye-fail-at-doing-a-simple-co2-experiment/

--Some of you are engineers. Leaving the greater issue of AGW aside for the moment. What do you think about the Scientific Rigor of this experiment.
I think the first video was demonstrating the experiment rather poorly. The refutation seems a bit iffy too.

I see problems with the experiment setup in both links. The first flaw is the placement of the thermometers, they should be not directly exposed to infrared radiation. They should be completely shielded with reflective foil and only measure the ambient temperature in a shadow.

However, the biggest problem is the inadequate number of trials. You'd have to perform a great number of experiments, and before each trial one must swap jars, heat lamps and thermometers in statistically random fashion.

 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2012, 04:21:31 am »
For whatever reason climate change is a reality and it will adversely erect every one on this planet. These stupid people trying to deny the problem by picking holes in films which are trying to highlight the problem to the "ignorant masses" and which in order to do so have to use visuals that do not stand up to proper scientific scrutiny are doing no one any favors. Whether the climate change is entirely due to human activity or only partially we ought to be trying to do something to mitigate it and its effects. If the water is rising high in the levy you dont just turn the taps on in order to fill it more you try to get the water out and also raise its height, likewise we should be trying to do something about climate change as well.   
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2012, 04:36:32 am »
Dear G7PSK:

--Would you please cite some scientific proof for your claim?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
Carl Sagan 1934-1996

Best Regards
Clear Ether
 

Offline PeterG

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2012, 04:51:14 am »
For whatever reason climate change is a reality and it will adversely erect every one on this planet. These stupid people trying to deny the problem by picking holes in films which are trying to highlight the problem to the "ignorant masses" and which in order to do so have to use visuals that do not stand up to proper scientific scrutiny are doing no one any favors. Whether the climate change is entirely due to human activity or only partially we ought to be trying to do something to mitigate it and its effects. If the water is rising high in the levy you dont just turn the taps on in order to fill it more you try to get the water out and also raise its height, likewise we should be trying to do something about climate change as well.

Agreed
Testing one two three...
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2012, 04:18:09 am »
Greetings EEVBees:

--More of the usual from the "smart people" who are not part of the "ignorant masses". At first is was the old snake oil huckster himself "Al Gore" making millions from the snake oil of carbon credits, now it is Sudan, Iran, North Korea. Duh, I know, let's take more money out of the private economy and give it to government to prevent AGW. Remember, real proof is just for stupid people and the ignorant masses.

http://freebeacon.com/carbon-corruption/

“World consumption of oil is still going up. If it were possible to keep it rising during the 1970s and 1980s by 5 percent a year as it has in the past, we could use up all the proven reserves of oil in the entire world by the end of the next decade.”
James Earl Carter 1924 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2012, 03:23:29 am »
The United Nations gives money to many corrupt states not just the oil producing states and wherever there is a trade in a commodity you will always find corruption, that is not proof that there is not a problem of global warming.
There is one aspect of burning fossil fuels that is not taken into account and to my mind should be,oxygen levels, produce more CO2 and you lower the oxygen in the atmosphere, it is already at lower levels than it used to be at some point it will get to such a low level that it will make life difficult for air breathing animals that is already the case for some marine life and as CO2 is heavier than air and oxygen it will pool exacerbating the problem. The present and past high oxygen levels were the result of blue green algae which is no longer around in the quantities required to sustain oxygen levels.The oceans are already polluted such that if the CO" levels rose sufficiently to support the algae at the levels it was in past history it is not like to flourish and any way by that time the oxygen level in the atmosphere will be too low to support mammalian life (that's us folks). Also you would not like it if people dumped their garbage in you back yard so why accept them dumping it into your sky. 
 

Offline T4P

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2012, 03:55:54 am »
The United Nations gives money to many corrupt states not just the oil producing states and wherever there is a trade in a commodity you will always find corruption, that is not proof that there is not a problem of global warming.
The UN?
Within striking distance from Ground Zero sits a smoldering international cauldron
The United "Abominations" as it were
Forged to prevent wars and froze in the face of disaster
And stood silent while terrorization took hostage of the world
In a mire of hypocrisy, the UN ignored sex crimes by its blue helmets
And enables terrorism, so, in the end, it's failed
And the UN is where our so-called friends get to stab us in the back
And we pay twenty-two percent of their tab to host our enemies here at home
Ambassadors from countries otherwise known as a catastrophe
Enjoy diplomatic immunity living in Manhattan
While their children are turned into prostitutes
It's a complete and utter disgrace, a blot on the face of humanity
And they get away with it ?!

NATO invaded Yugoslavia to end ethnic cleansing, there was no U.N.
The U.S. invaded Afghanistan after 9/11, there was no U.N.
Saddam Hussein violated seventeen U.N. resolutions
The U.N. was asked to join the war in Iraq
The U.S. invaded, there was no U.N.
Libya bombed a discotheque in Berlin killing Americans, there was no U.N.
And Iran funds Hamas and attacked the U.S. in the seventies, there was no U.N.
Facing war without end, looking into the future, there was no more U.N.
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2012, 06:01:13 am »
Dear G7PSK:

--I assume when you mention the decline of the cyanobacteria, you are referring to the paper in Nature, by Scientists at Dalhousie University, which discussed the decline in the upper layers of the oceans. Presently this decline is thought to result from stratification and a lack of nutrition in the top layer, which is not generally the depth at which these bacteria are densest. This nutrition shortage is exacerbated by increased temperature in the upper layer, and not do to pollution of the water.

--Also, there are some possible problems with the methodology of the study, I.E. using a Secci disk instead of satellite data. See the below link for an article which does not refute the study but does point out some important caveats.

http://climatide.wgbh.org/2011/01/phytoplankton-in-decline-maybe-not/

"Ohman concludes that “closer scrutiny … fails to support [the] conclusion of a significant global phytoplankton decline,” that phytoplankton levels are doing different things in different parts of the ocean for different reasons."

--I do not believe it is time to double power bills for working families just yet.

"Don't believe a word I say, check, Do not trust the opinions of Scientists, trust the data"
Christopher Monckton 1952 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2012, 06:39:24 am »
I am referring to the fact that at one time the world had a reducing atmosphere which was converted to an oxidizing one during the protezoic era  by a type of cyanobacteria that can now only be found in a few places along the coast of Australia the modern varieties that are far more common are not so efficient at conversion.
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2012, 05:26:00 am »
Greetings EEVBees:

--Al Gore moves Carbon Credit money from one pocket to the other. See below link

http://digitaljournal.com/article/251232

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
Al Gore 1948 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2012, 07:14:15 am »
It is people like Al Gore hijacking the global warming issue that fans the flames of the skeptics and discredits those who actually want to do something about the problem.
 

Offline gxti

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2012, 08:09:24 am »
Could you have this discussion somewhere else?  This was a rather delightful thread about shoddy products and scumbag advertising but now you've gone and turned into a boring argument about politics.
 

Offline gxti

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2012, 10:32:12 am »
Ran across this while shopping for a new DAC: http://www.goodwinshighend.com/music_servers/SOtM/SOtM_In-Line_SATA_Power_Noise_Filter.htm



It's not accompanied by the usual grab-bag of nonsense about what a tremendous positive impact it had on the sound, so I have to wonder if their heart is really in it. Retails for 65 USD. They also have a USB host card that looks like a stock design with a few dozen oversized capacitors (300 USD) and a friggin' power filter for fans (25 USD). "Must have", indeed.
 

Offline M. András

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2012, 06:07:59 am »
Ran across this while shopping for a new DAC: http://www.goodwinshighend.com/music_servers/SOtM/SOtM_In-Line_SATA_Power_Noise_Filter.htm



It's not accompanied by the usual grab-bag of nonsense about what a tremendous positive impact it had on the sound, so I have to wonder if their heart is really in it. Retails for 65 USD. They also have a USB host card that looks like a stock design with a few dozen oversized capacitors (300 USD) and a friggin' power filter for fans (25 USD). "Must have", indeed.
the drives already have sufficient filtering in their power converters right? anyway a better quality psu would never need such a nonsense thing. and those who buys a 10 bucks worh 1kw psu for their pc deserves their faith :)
 

Offline Jad.z

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #94 on: June 28, 2012, 07:31:19 am »
http://www.power4home.com/MakeElectricity.php


What a lovely novel ;D
He should really get into the writing business....Seriously!!
 

Offline RCMR

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #95 on: July 08, 2012, 06:13:48 pm »
Here's a guy who clearly knows a few buzzwords -- but also, just as clearly, has little idea what they mean.

If you've got 10 minutes of your life to throw away -- watch this video about the future of energy.



His other videos are also a bit of a crack-up, albeit somewhat repetitive.

I find it hard to believe that people have actually given this guy money.
 

Offline digsys

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #96 on: July 08, 2012, 09:49:21 pm »
Quote
Here's a guy who clearly knows a few buzzwords -- but also, just as clearly, has little idea what they mean.
I find it hard to believe that people have actually given this guy money.
Holly Batsh*t !! What a load of KAKA. It's probably TOO late to stop the spread of his DNA !!
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #97 on: July 08, 2012, 11:12:44 pm »
Here's a guy who clearly knows a few buzzwords -- but also, just as clearly, has little idea what they mean.

He got one thing right, the bottled water called "naive" when spelled correctly http://www.evian.com/ The rest? Bah.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Offline Time

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-Time
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: The snake oil thread...
« Reply #99 on: July 26, 2012, 06:02:10 am »
I do have some cables with that ability, as I have cut the plug off the one end..........
 


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