Author Topic: Eagle has moved up, way up.  (Read 2585 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2366
  • Country: de
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2019, 04:34:58 pm »
2 people who never read the EULA.
you probably also think that gmail doesnt scan your mails and open your attachments for a good look.

Just give us two relevant examples from the many EULAs you have read, wise guy.
 

Online stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2054
  • Country: gb
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2019, 06:16:30 pm »
i already gave you one - go read the bs that comes with teamview.
all data goes through the company servers (why? VNC was p2p)
all traffic is logged. ( i wonder why, and who they give/sell it too............)

if you want to live the dream go ahead - but dont go trying to trick others into thinking they live in a decent world with respect & privacy for all.
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2366
  • Country: de
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2019, 06:26:52 pm »
i already gave you one - go read the bs that comes with teamview.
all data goes through the company servers (why? VNC was p2p)
all traffic is logged. ( i wonder why, and who they give/sell it too............)

If TeamViewer is the best example you have, I am not impressed.

Of course all traffic goes through their servers -- it's the whole point of these connection management servers that both clients reach out to the server to establish the connection. You do want local firewalls on both clients to stop illicit incoming connections; only outgoing connections are allowed. That's why a pure peer-to-peer approach does not work. Once the connection is established, the actual traffic between the clients is end-to-end encrypted; no third party (including TeamViewer) can read it.

Anyway, I'm done here. You have lost a few credibility points with me.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16260
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2019, 06:48:19 pm »
p2p (peer to peer) networking usually means being able to setup a connection between two systems behind a firewall (like Bittorrent). If VNC has this capability then it can do the same what teamviewer does.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 06:49:59 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2054
  • Country: gb
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2019, 10:25:29 pm »
VNC was secure and encrypted.
claiming routing via a strangers server is more secure than a direct link is ridiculous - would you like to see some puppies?
 

Offline langwadt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1117
  • Country: dk
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2019, 10:57:58 pm »
i already gave you one - go read the bs that comes with teamview.
all data goes through the company servers (why? VNC was p2p)
all traffic is logged. ( i wonder why, and who they give/sell it too............)

if you want to live the dream go ahead - but dont go trying to trick others into thinking they live in a decent world with respect & privacy for all.

teamviewer is also p2p when ever possible, which it is in most cases. The servers are used for establishing the connection and if it isn't possible
to get a direct connection
 

Online Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5128
  • Country: nl
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2019, 04:20:06 am »
@Rxpilot, looks impressive.
So how far does this integration between eagle and fusion go?
Can you for instance make an aluminium enclosure where the lid is milled so it barely touches some "hot" components so it acts as a good heatsink after applying some tiny thin thermal conductive layer?
Is it reliable enough?
Do you need to enter the exact height of those components, how?
Just curious how far they are.
 

Offline BigMark

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: 00
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2019, 08:09:25 am »
Correct Matseng. The main part of GDPR covers the storage and use of personal data. This is considered to be anything from name, personal number (SWE), National Insurance number (UK), address, DoB, ..... that identifies you.

It also covers any unique IDs that are generated to reference you - even if those IDs are random, the instance of the ID being linked to you means it is covered.

However - GDPR is also much broader. Importantly for us in Europe, is that it gives us the right to know who a company will use our data, have the right to have any data related to ourselves deleted or cleaned (ie. the personal data or link to personal data is replaced - in logs this means you keep the log, you know the number of unique users - but - you dont know any particular log record was down to me or you using the system in question)...

Tons more good stuff in GDPR. Cloud services are AOK, if the user is informed that they are storing data, publishing / sharing data - GDPR has no effect.

Seems I poorly explained the problems which my employer has. But to expand.

The main reason for implementing GDPR in the way my employer has; was mainly engineering drawings have editorial details which can contain engineer’s names and client details such as individual names and associated contact details that can be added to the editorial notes alongside the drawings. These editorial notes can also contain client requested changes which have been added to a version of the drawing for specific reasons.

For example, if a client asks for a bespoke update to be made to a production item then the editorial notes along the drawings will contain information on the client and the requests made including the project numbers. This item might have ten associated drawings and with the notes alongside the drawings will also have details such as engineer’s names, client names, client project numbering, client email addresses and so on. These for practical reasons are always kept together to trace historical changes which have been made.

On top of this, our clients require complete confidentiality to the stage that all engineering drawings are treated in the same way as other confidential information, hence applying GDPR as a global rule to all technical and none technical documentation. So, any drawing or associated technical notes always are considered to contain personal identifiable information.

To make changes to the way projects are manged to accommodate a new software package or a method of working would be too complex and time consuming at present.

At the moment we are looking to replace our old version of AutoCad and we might end up having to look at alternatives to AutoCad due to issues which might conflict with our client requirements as we have to read the EULA details in detail to see if the EULA meets our client’s specification and legal requirements such as GDPR, even location of servers outside of Europe might need to be considered. For this reason, a change from the older version of AutoCad will take years to implement, but thankfully Windows 10 works fine with this older AutoCad package.

All this might seem odd to some, but I have heard similar from engineers who work with a government contractor who are not allowed to use any method of sending data between offices such as email, Dropbox or even remote access directly into a server. All data has to be sent on passworded hard drives which meet certain US Government specification (FIPS 140-2) were more than three attempts at the password the HDD is deleted. Even the servers are isolated from the internet and very limited access in the office. Drawings and project details are always secured behind a passworded vault.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 09:01:43 am by BigMark »
 
The following users thanked this post: Karel

Offline langwadt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1117
  • Country: dk
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2019, 08:42:44 am »
@Rxpilot, looks impressive.
So how far does this integration between eagle and fusion go?
Can you for instance make an aluminium enclosure where the lid is milled so it barely touches some "hot" components so it acts as a good heatsink after applying some tiny thin thermal conductive layer?
Is it reliable enough?
Do you need to enter the exact height of those components, how?
Just curious how far they are.

as always, it depends on how accurate your models are

 

Offline radioactive

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Country: us
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2019, 09:06:44 am »
In the past, I have been particularly critical of Eagle. There was so much to fuel my disappointment - enough that I was just about to pull the trigger on a 'real' piece of software Altium Designer. I use Eagle for commercial designs and it was so slow, cumbersome, and limited in capability that my business was being hindered by sticking with it.

I have been happy with Eagle <=7.6 for >20 years now.  I am still using version 7.6 as of now.  I realize that it doesn't have all the features that a $30k package would, but it has served me very well over the years.  The subscription model will never work for me.  I have been donating money to CERN (in amounts equal to usual Eagle updates in the past) for Kicad development since Autodesk took over, but haven't quite been able to get used to the UI enough to make the switch.  Getting closer, but as most would probably admit, it is very hard to give up what you know after decades of use.

Quote
Curious if anyone else using Eagle for commercial designs has a similar experience. My current project has 14 PCBs in a very tight enclosure - very integrated and high-density packaging. Not sure I could have pulled it all off without the integration with F360. This feature really starts to pull Eagle out of the muck of hobby oriented software and into the realm of pro software. Still low-end overall, but professional nonetheless IMHO.

I found Eagle to be perfectly fine for advanced designs before Autodesk, so not sure how the new stuff compares.  I do really like the push-and-shove routing that CERN added to Kicad  (I understand that made it into the newer versions of Eagle).  Have to admit, that would be nice.  As for the integrated mechanical design...  dont care.  I would rather have Cadsoft non-subscription based licensing back.  Luckily, the import on Kicad does seem quite good now, even for the really advanced layouts.  Once the UI gets cleaned up a bit more, I don't think the move will be all that difficult.
 
The following users thanked this post: KE5FX, Karel

Offline rx8pilot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3422
  • Country: us
  • If you want more money, be more valuable.
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2019, 01:04:57 pm »
@Rxpilot, looks impressive.
So how far does this integration between eagle and fusion go?
Can you for instance make an aluminium enclosure where the lid is milled so it barely touches some "hot" components so it acts as a good heatsink after applying some tiny thin thermal conductive layer?
Is it reliable enough?
Do you need to enter the exact height of those components, how?
Just curious how far they are.

I have done a number of very tightly integrated designs where electronics are coupled closely in the mechanical design in Eagle/Fusion360. From full enclosures to delicately designed heat spreaders that need to make contact with specific components. The component models only need to be very basic geometry, but obviously, the dimensions need to be accurate. Some people go nuts modeling every stupid detail including solder joints which is a waste of time.

The components can be defined in a web-based Autodesk app that can deal with fairly common packages. I mainly downloaded STEP models from manufacturers, UltraLibrarian, and SnapEDA. Of course, you can model from scratch if you really need to. Inside Eagle, you marry your footprint, schematic symbol, and 3D models into a complete device. For devices that have various values or attributes, I create a family which is a single set of symbols, models, and footprints but with a list of values/configurations to choose from. All of my library parts are mapped to my internal part numbering system. That allows integration with pick and place, BOM's, storage, and semi-automated DigiKey and Mouser orders - directly from the Eagle data.

As long as you build the parts correctly in the library - output is a few mouse clicks to push to Fusion360. It is pretty reliable overall, but there are unwritten rules you have to follow to keep a complicated design stable. When I ran into trouble, Autodesk set up an hour-long conference call with a product manager and two software engineers to develop an approach that was stable.  My current design is a little over 1,000 parts and still nice and stable even on Windows 7 and very old PC hardware.


In general, I rough in the mechanics and use that to define the PCB's with provisions for hard external features like buttons, connectors, LEDs, etc. The PCB outlines and proposed hard points are pushed to Eagle where I can rough-in the layout. As I run into physical conflicts - I can make the changes in Eagle or Fusion360 depending on what is driving the decision.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. http://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 
The following users thanked this post: Christina

Offline rx8pilot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3422
  • Country: us
  • If you want more money, be more valuable.
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2019, 01:21:25 pm »
This is one of the enclosures for a project that was really packed tight. A lot of custom PCB's handling high-speed data IO and power management of multiple power sources and backup battery with an Intl NUC PC guts stuck in the middle. A lot of connectors, wiring and thermal management.

Photos are prototype assembly, but at least show how packed the enclosure is. The empty space was filled with connectors and LiFePO4 battery pack.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. http://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline dcarr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 85
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2019, 02:00:09 pm »
That looks expensive.   :D
 

Offline KE5FX

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 996
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2019, 06:23:41 pm »
That looks expensive.   :D

Looks great.  It has to be admitted that you don't see that kind of engineering coming out of an EAGLE shop (including mine) very often!  :-+
 

Online Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5128
  • Country: nl
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2019, 06:48:20 pm »
Very impressive.  :-+
The housing is milled from a solid block of aluminium?
Are these prototypes so the customer can test before starting mass production or just small series?
 

Offline radioactive

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Country: us
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2019, 09:02:07 am »
@rx8pilot,

The milled enclosures do look really nice!
 

Offline rx8pilot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3422
  • Country: us
  • If you want more money, be more valuable.
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2019, 11:12:36 am »
Very impressive.  :-+
The housing is milled from a solid block of aluminium?
Are these prototypes so the customer can test before starting mass production or just small series?

Thank you!

Yes - they started as solid blocks of aluminum that I machine in my garage factory. The money I saved sticking with Eagle over Altium was directly responsible for me being able to get a fancy CNC. For those unaware of my background....I spent nearly 10 years focused on machined parts as an engineer and machinist. The enclosures really taxed my skills developed as a designer and machinist over all that time.

Video from roughly a year ago - still crazy messy.


An 'unboxing' video showing the arrival of the enclosure making machine.


Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. http://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2366
  • Country: de
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2019, 04:44:47 pm »
Loved the unboxing video! I like your style, and it helps when one has a cool story to tell!   :-+
 

Online Tmstony

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: at
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2019, 08:48:28 pm »
Hi rx8pilot

I have watched your Eagle videos/pictures with great interest - thx for putting those up. :-+ It's helping me a lot to understand the progress Autodesk made in the last year. Right now i am in a position were i can choose either Eagle, Circuit Studio/Solidworks Pcb or Orcad as an Ecad Pcb program. I have made some small test projects with their trial programs, but i am curious - why did you select Eagle?

Since i need an Mcad program as well - the same decision is on the table with Fusion 360 and the integration between Mcad and Ecad. The price point would be a key point but can be neglected as i am a student. Known issues like cloud based, licencing and bug fixing from these manufacturers are well known and need no in-depth discussion (from my point of view).

It would be very helpful to hear your view on this. :)
Thx Benjamin
 

Offline Christina

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: us
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2019, 05:28:29 am »
I just wanted to echo @rx8pilot's sentiments about Eagle moving up.

I started using Eagle in 2014, so did not experience a lot of the trauma most old timers had to go through. However, even I noticed, less than a year after Autodesk bought Eagle in August 2016 (mid 2017?), that the updates were introducing a lot of useful features and I started to really pay attention to learn the content of each release.

The Autodesk Eagle features which were released thereafter in 2018 continued to make my life a little less painful and Eagle more easier to use (paintroller, etc.). Yet the introduction of linking Eagle to Fusion 360 was a complete game changer for me. I could now make enclosures with a lot more spatial information about the board and components at my fingertips.

That being said, it took a host of swear words for me to get up to speed on Fusion 360. As a ME novice, my only prior experience had been via SketchUp. I am still struggling with the Fusion 360 side, but I think that there is huge potential here to be explored and leveraged to improve product quality (my enclosure fits even better!) and speed up the development cycle (hand-off from EE to ME is quicker and with more information).

To nail it down further, Autodesk Fusion 360 has a ton (100?) of videos about learning the ins and outs of the product, and I tried to allocate time to go through this library even before I learned about the merge. However, all of the information seemed irrelevant to me as a beginner because I simply wanted to make an enclosure for my PCB. Yet, especially now that Eagle has been linked to Fusion 360, what is desperately needed is a handful of videos which can help us learn and leverage Fusion 360 around the topic of making an enclosure around a PCB. Kevin Schneider’s casual yet extremely valuable CrowdSupply video https://youtu.be/oqSg1mZ-1vU?t=1980 just scratched the surface on the potential of making even your library component's have a 3D "Keep Out" space (skip to ~minute 32:00), so that you can add them to multiple projects and yet reduce the amount of work each time. I would love the information in his video, broken into 3 videos, written for the beginner (What is a Sketch? How do you manipulate Planes? Etc.).

GDPR: Also, even though GDPR can be a topic all on it's own, I realize the subject will creep into a plethora of topics over the coming years, and I wanted to give thanks for the GDPR discussion on this thread. I think all of us are still trying to wrap our heads around the regulations, and it is helpful to hear about the ramifications people are experiencing at their current jobs, especially in different parts of the world.
 

Offline macegr

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 79
  • Country: us
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2019, 09:01:26 am »
All true enough. I'd love to pay ~$1500 for the current version of Eagle without the login requirement. Maybe even do it again in a couple years, or buy an upgrade pack along the way for several hundred. It's a lot more than the $0 I'll pay for subscription software.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6311
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2019, 09:34:05 am »
All true enough. I'd love to pay ~$1500 for the current version of Eagle without the login requirement. Maybe even do it again in a couple years, or buy an upgrade pack along the way for several hundred. It's a lot more than the $0 I'll pay for subscription software.
I concede that the software and integration sounds interesting, but the subscription model and especially the cloud dependency ends any interest.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16260
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2019, 09:45:52 am »
All true enough. I'd love to pay ~$1500 for the current version of Eagle without the login requirement. Maybe even do it again in a couple years, or buy an upgrade pack along the way for several hundred. It's a lot more than the $0 I'll pay for subscription software.
I concede that the software and integration sounds interesting, but the subscription model and especially the cloud dependency ends any interest.
I agree the features look mighty interesting but I also agree on the licensing model. Software must be able to run forever. What if Autodesk discontinues the software? Or what if you have to open an old design 5 years from now but you moved to a different package?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6311
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2019, 09:54:31 am »
I agree the features look mighty interesting but I also agree on the licensing model. Software must be able to run forever. What if Autodesk discontinues the software? Or what if you have to open an old design 5 years from now but you moved to a different package?
Not just that, but continuity is rather important. Just the other day Microsoft had issues with their cloud services. I can only assume they've got their bases in that regard covered better than pretty much anyone, possibly bar Google or Amazon. You're essentially relegated to sitting tight when that happens and Murphy will ensure it happens at the worst possible time.

Companies spend fortunes on high end enterprise graphics cards with enhanced support to reduce the chances of downtime as much as possible. Depending on a cloud infrastructure under someone else's control seems counterproductive in that regard. I don't even want to think about what happens when there's a more persistent outage.
 

Offline Karel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1303
  • Country: 00
Re: Eagle has moved up, way up.
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2019, 07:20:42 pm »
All true enough. I'd love to pay ~$1500 for the current version of Eagle without the login requirement. Maybe even do it again in a couple years, or buy an upgrade pack along the way for several hundred. It's a lot more than the $0 I'll pay for subscription software.
I concede that the software and integration sounds interesting, but the subscription model and especially the cloud dependency ends any interest.
I agree the features look mighty interesting but I also agree on the licensing model. Software must be able to run forever. What if Autodesk discontinues the software? Or what if you have to open an old design 5 years from now but you moved to a different package?
Same here. Software must be able to be installed and used without an internet connection.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf