Author Topic: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands  (Read 1341 times)

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Offline lolimpol

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Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« on: August 20, 2017, 06:24:25 AM »
So, I made my first board. it's a simple LED driver and it only uses one layer. So please (lightly) judge it. I want to make it myself but I don't have a laserprinter. I want to know if doing it myself would be cheaper (if I can somehow get my hands on a laserprinter). then for the last question: what is a good (cheap) boardhouse for the Netherlands? thanks!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 06:37:26 AM by lolimpol »
*Insert cool inspirational text here*
 

Offline Chris935

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 10:04:58 PM »
I submitted a board to https://aisler.net on Monday night and it has just been sent to the fab over the border in Germany this morning.

45EUR for three 100 X 80 mm boards, including postage to the UK.

Chris
 
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Offline george.b

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 12:23:57 PM »
Turnaround is longer if you have it done by a board house, and between manufacturing and shipping costs, doing it yourself is probably cheaper. The results usually aren't nearly as good, though, but then it's a matter of whether you actually need them to be that good.

Personally, if I were you, I'd do it myself, it'd be quicker, cheaper (especially since there aren't too many inexpensive board houses around here) and the board seems simple enough. If you can't get a laser printer, you could print it on inkjet and have it photocopied somewhere.
 

Online woody

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 08:14:37 PM »
Submitted a 116x90mm board to Aisler yesterday. €72,- for 3 pieces, including stencil, shipping and VAT.

I'll let you know when I get them and what they look like.
 

Offline Chris935

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 12:41:50 AM »
I got my boards back from Aisler, I think it was a total of 12 days from ordering to receiving. They're the first boards I've had made so I' not fully qualified to judge, but they seem at least as high quality as the PCBs from expensive equipment I've worked on, very impressed.

What's also nice is that they didn't add any of their own silkscreen to ID the board as I believe some other services do.

Chris
 

Online woody

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 12:13:08 AM »
Got mine today   :D

Submitted the board the 9th, received the 18th. Nine days is quite quick for three beautiful (as in made, not designed) PCB's and a nice looking, stainless steel stencil.

They look absolutely on par with the professional boards I had made earlier.

I will try the stencil tomorrow and find out if they solder well.

So far I am very content with Aisler. Thanks for your tip!



 

Offline Mattylad

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 06:42:25 AM »
Is no one commenting on the board itself?

I'm no Eagle expert however it does not look complete to me, there is an incomplete net for the GND from the connector.
(OK I poured the polygon - see the later comment about swapping to improve it)

The mounting holes are too close to the TIP31 and IC corners, terminal block  - whats going through those holes? (screws have heads, plastic pegs sometimes do too).
The TIP31's you can get away with as your renders show them standing up (could you not find a vertical version?)

Will the transistors get hot?

How does the arduino board get +power? I see no connection to it for that.

Swapping the pinout on the terminal block will make the track layout far easier, put +pwr closer to the pwr in connector to see what I mean.
This also improves the GND pour to be more continuous. (although I'm getting a big gap betweent he GND that covers the board and the GND that goes under the arduino, ought these both be solidly connected instead of a thin track?


If your not in a hurry you could use one of the fabs such as https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html who will make you 10 of these for very little (under $10)



Matty
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Offline paddi

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 08:44:30 AM »
Hi all,

this is Patrick from AISLER, glad you like the PCBs  :D We're always happy to see what the creative genius does with the stuff we manufacture! If you've any questions feel free to ask.

One thing about Seeedstudio, we really like these guys as it is a quite reliable source in China. But if you compare prices it mostly ends up more expensive than just ordering in Europe. Woody's PCBs would cost 118USD for 5pcs. with about 3 weeks delivery, 6 with us are 112EUR. Please note that I selected a comparable configuration at Seeedstudio.
I don't want to start a price war here, as we in general focus more on the complete prototype and thus also deliver all necessary parts and stencils.

Cheers!
 

Online woody

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2017, 05:52:19 PM »
Seeedstudio looks like they have many more features. AFAIK Aisler does not do 4 layer boards, which might be a showstopper at times.

Then about price. A thing that is important to me in PCB manufacturing is the environmental load it creates. Making PCB's is an inherently dirty business, it really matters how it is done and if and how waste is treated. I am willing to pay extra for it to be done right. In this respect I have to rely on the on-line information I'm given by the manufacturer as I lack the skills to check this myself. Call it prejudice, call it chauvinism, call it  Euro-centrism but here I have more faith in a local operation falling under local environmental laws. And local also means my PCB's have to travel fewer miles from the fab to my doorstep. YMMV   :D
 

Offline homebrew

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Re: Good PCB design? / good boardhouse for the Netherlands
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 04:31:20 AM »
Is no one commenting on the board itself?

I'm no Eagle expert however it does not look complete to me, there is an incomplete net for the GND from the connector.
(OK I poured the polygon - see the later comment about swapping to improve it)

The mounting holes are too close to the TIP31 and IC corners, terminal block  - whats going through those holes? (screws have heads, plastic pegs sometimes do too).
The TIP31's you can get away with as your renders show them standing up (could you not find a vertical version?)

Will the transistors get hot?

How does the arduino board get +power? I see no connection to it for that.

Swapping the pinout on the terminal block will make the track layout far easier, put +pwr closer to the pwr in connector to see what I mean.
This also improves the GND pour to be more continuous. (although I'm getting a big gap betweent he GND that covers the board and the GND that goes under the arduino, ought these both be solidly connected instead of a thin track?


If your not in a hurry you could use one of the fabs such as https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html who will make you 10 of these for very little (under $10)

Oh, just seen the thread - hopefully it is not too late ...

Anyway, the board has hardly any chance to work:
1) The trace for the blue LEDs runs through the mounting hole of another transistor, so it might be drilled away.
2) The ground pour has hardly any insulation spacing. Did you set up the DRC rules right? But there is absolutely NO reason for that. Just give it at lease 0.5mm clearance.
3) The transistors are connected the wrong way. It is an NPN transistor, hence you need to connect the emitter to ground, not the collector ... otherwise the gain will be MUCH lower -> so no power available...
4) The TIP31 is a single power transistor with quite a low amplification. The Arduino can at best sink 20mA. Given a worst case hFE of 25 (look into the datasheet), you might not get more than 500mA output current. Also the voltage drop in the transistor is around 1.2V. Hence it will dissipate 1.2W for each A flowing through. It will get HOT!

Maybe you want to you an N-channel mosfet instead?

 


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