Author Topic: Imagine you have a deadline...  (Read 7621 times)

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Offline Karel

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #125 on: April 21, 2017, 07:49:43 AM »
Hi Karel,

Hi Jorge,

I understand that you are upset, you have made that very clear.

I understand that it's your job to promote Eagle & autodesk, you have made that very clear.

However, I disagree that Autodesk has mistreated you in anyway. Technically, you haven't lost anything. You still have the V7.7 license you originally paid for and no one will be taking that away from you. The subscription change only applies to Autodesk EAGLE, so you still have exactly what you paid for.

Autodesk does care about it's customers to do othewise just doesn't make business sense.

It was said by your colleague that Eagle should not go subscription.
There was no advance warning or grace period so that we could buy extra V7 licenses.
We got completely taken by surprise and now, if we want to hire another engineer, we don't have
enough licenses and we will be forced to switched to another package.
I call that a mistreatment.

The improvements in EAGLE are a testament to that, the fact that I'm here replying is also testament to that. EAGLE feature wise is far more powerful than it's ever been and all this has happened in less than a year. I know you've been copying issues from the Autodesk forum and posting them here, however you haven't been following up on the resolution of those issues. When Autodesk EAGLE first released it's stability wasn't what users were used to with V7 and prior. On the flip side, there wasn't as much change in EAGLE's codebase prior to Autodesk either so stability was easier to preserve. With that said many of the linux issues have or are being ironed out and every release is better than the last in terms of stability(I run a Linux Mint 18 box with MATE 1.14.2 desktop here). I think there is large Linux market that is a unique opportunity for us to capitalize on, since no other commercial tool natively supports linux(keyword: commercial, KiCAD and GEDA are not commercial entities).

The facts are that Eagle V6 & V7 were rock stable on all major Linux distro's.
V8 is a crash galore. And in addition, autodesk is going to limit the number of supported Linux distro's,
something that never was a problem in the past.

Never say from these waters I will not drink. I haven't heard anyone say they have actually tried the latest 8.1.1 here. You may discover that it's not what you thought it was. EAGLE's file format is XML so you are never truly locked in as can be seen by all of the converters available in other tools. You really have nothing to lose by trying it and then forming an informed opinion.

Just my 2 cents, if they are even worth that much. If you try it and run into any problems I'm here to help.

Subscription is not an option. It is not negotiable. For arguments read the 300+ posts.

Let me know if there's something else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

Kind Regards,
Karel
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 08:06:03 AM by Karel »
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Online hammy

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #126 on: April 21, 2017, 08:47:51 AM »
It is sad to see, how the relationship between a company und customers can suffer. But oviously there are still enough customers using the new subscription model.

Meeh! Whatever! It is always good to habe a plan B for the most critical tool. If your company relies on only one EDA software you are doomed. :-\
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 08:51:47 AM by hammy »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #127 on: April 21, 2017, 08:52:06 AM »
Is there? They must be out there, but I haven't see anyone saying they're using it yet.
 

Online hammy

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #128 on: April 21, 2017, 08:53:41 AM »
I remember some students in another forum saying ist is good to pay monthly. Much cheaper, you know ...
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #129 on: April 21, 2017, 08:58:33 AM »
Rental model probably works well for students, may or may not end up using that particular product long term. It's out of the question for any sort of real use though.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #130 on: April 21, 2017, 07:44:50 PM »
Just a quick field report from a long time Eagle user, in case someone wants to switch. I created a breakout board in KiCad as a simple demo project and was learning the program while doing it (mostly by watching Youtube videos and googling for questions how things work in KiCad that I know from Eagle). Including some time playing with it previously, I needed about two days to do this. I think with the next board I won't be much slower than with Eagle.

BTW, has Eagle now an integrated 3D view which you can interactively rotate and zoom, as in KiCad? I really like the improved 3D view of the latest stable KiCad release 4.0.6, which I compiled from source. My board (I know, I should add 3D models for the components) :



But the best 3D view has Altium Designer, because you can even edit your board in the 3D view.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #131 on: April 22, 2017, 01:37:15 AM »
The 3D view is cool, but in practice I find that it's way too much work to create 3D models for all the parts I make for the libraries and that part never gets done.
 

Offline ar__systems

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #132 on: April 22, 2017, 09:06:35 AM »
What do you use 3D view at all? Imho it is pretty useless, for the amount of work you need to do to create part models.
 

Offline macegr

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #133 on: April 22, 2017, 11:46:17 AM »
I have used 3D PCB design (manually) a lot, but usually because the PCBs themselves are critical to the design. It's also handy when trying to make something fit an enclosure...you know, so that your project is finished. In an enclosure.

A non-enclosure example:
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #134 on: April 22, 2017, 11:57:21 AM »
What do you use 3D view at all? Imho it is pretty useless, for the amount of work you need to do to create part models.

It doesn't need to win an art price, just the right dimensions are good enough to see if it fits somewhere. I just tried it for my circuit and created 3D models for the crystal and the QFN IC:



Took me a minute for the IC and two minutes for the crystal with ViaCAD Pro and basic shapes and boolean operations. Then export to VRL (format version 2, because KiCad crashed with version 1) and add it to the footprints with a mouse click. Strangely the VRL-export was in cm, but KiCad assumed inch, but you can enter a scaling factor in KiCad. The pin headers and cap was already available in KiCad, I just didn't configure the right path, because I compiled it from source. The pads for the cap are bigger than usual, because I chose the hand-solderable footprint variant.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 01:07:52 PM by FrankBuss »
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Offline sleemanj

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #135 on: April 22, 2017, 03:23:41 PM »
What do you use 3D view at all? Imho it is pretty useless, for the amount of work you need to do to create part models.

Even without 3d models 3d view can be very useful, I often spot problems or areas I could improve in the 3d view which were not so obvious in the 2d layout view alone, I can't explain why satisfactorily, but that is the case.

Adding models, even rough ones, allows you to see even more problems, mostly to do with "yeah I'm never going to get an iron tip into there" for me.
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