Low Cost PCB's Low Cost Components

Author Topic: Imagine you have a deadline...  (Read 23207 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bassman59

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 477
  • Country: us
  • Yes, I do this for a living
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #150 on: May 05, 2017, 02:25:42 AM »
I wish I could buy stock in KiCAD. 

Never used it in my life, but the rest of the industry seems to be falling over themselves trying to hand them as much market share as possible.

It's worth trying.
 

Offline macegr

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: us
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #151 on: May 26, 2017, 06:32:14 PM »
Seems to be flip-flapping on the river bank, as predicted. You get a lot of lively activity when you throw a fish on dry land, but pretty soon, it stops moving and becomes somebody's lunch. The official forums are packed with new problems appearing every minute, and even some of the former pennant-wavers are voicing exasperation with the fails du jour. They were all just told that Autodesk is going to dedicate not just one minute, not just one hour, or a day, but in self-stated "BRAVERY" they will focus on fixing 15-year-old bugs instead of creating toy ULP-based features FOR AN ENTIRE SOLID UNINTERRUPTED WEEK. The utter madmen and madwomen! Can you imagine any other ECAD company deciding to use one whole week out of a year for the express purposes of bugfixes? At least they're not halting "development" for TWO weeks, because what would they do with the extra time after fixing One (1) Bug...get started on the barest hint of stability testing and quality control or something? Nah that's boring, do the bugfix week and get back to breaking internet authentication and writing ULPs to draw emoji on your silkscreen or replace the UI with Fritzing.
 

Offline FrankBuss

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1774
  • Country: de
    • Frank Buss
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #152 on: May 26, 2017, 07:00:35 PM »
Hey, emojis are important. In a not to distant future this will be all humans can read anymore  :) ;) :D

quadro copter flying, electronics, retro computing and other geeky things: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss/
 

Online Karel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1018
  • Country: 00
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #153 on: May 26, 2017, 09:15:34 PM »
It was already clear to me that autodesk turned a rock-stable program into an wobbly toy.

Biggest accomplishments so far:

The Application was unable to start correctly (0xc0000005). Click OK to close the application.
 
After login I see white screen
 
Eagle differential pair hard crash
 
Eagle 8.2.1 crash while using library. Crash or instakill
 
Unable to run EAGLE on Debian GNU/Linux x64
 
V8.1.1 crashes after opening file explorer
 
Eagle 8.1.1 bug - program crash if you change DRC while routing
 
Eagle Crashes after closing the Cam window.
 
Installed Eagle 8.1.1 and crashes upon opening
 
Excessive Eagle CPU useage
 
Unable to run EAGLE on Debian GNU/Linux x64
 
Eagle 8 and 8.1 freezes on Windows 10
 
eagle.exe has stopped working
 
Intermittent eagle 8.1 starting
 
Segmentation fault on Fedora 24 64bit even with following the README
 
Eagle 8.0.2 Blank Screen on Load
 
Eagle Startup Fail
 
Eagle 8.0.1 "We’re experiencing some problems accessing your Autodesk account."
 
Eagle 8.1 wont start on ubuntu 16.04 64 bit. version 7.7 runs fine
 
EAGLE 8.1.0 Won't Start
 
Eagle 8.0.2 menu problems on Fedora 25

What worries me most is that they don't seem to have a clue about deploying software.
The problems started mainly because somebody thought it was a good idea to
- not to link static anymore (the Qt libraries)
- start to play with OpenGL
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2669
  • Country: us
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #154 on: May 27, 2017, 03:12:36 AM »
Seems to be flip-flapping on the river bank, as predicted. You get a lot of lively activity when you throw a fish on dry land, but pretty soon, it stops moving and becomes somebody's lunch. The official forums are packed with new problems appearing every minute, and even some of the former pennant-wavers are voicing exasperation with the fails du jour. They were all just told that Autodesk is going to dedicate not just one minute, not just one hour, or a day, but in self-stated "BRAVERY" they will focus on fixing 15-year-old bugs instead of creating toy ULP-based features FOR AN ENTIRE SOLID UNINTERRUPTED WEEK. The utter madmen and madwomen! Can you imagine any other ECAD company deciding to use one whole week out of a year for the express purposes of bugfixes? At least they're not halting "development" for TWO weeks, because what would they do with the extra time after fixing One (1) Bug...get started on the barest hint of stability testing and quality control or something? Nah that's boring, do the bugfix week and get back to breaking internet authentication and writing ULPs to draw emoji on your silkscreen or replace the UI with Fritzing.

 :palm:   |O   :popcorn:
 

Offline latigid on

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: de
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #155 on: May 28, 2017, 12:08:23 AM »
What was up with the "Answer Day" thingee? Was it a special forum section or something? 'Cause I didn't see any more traffic than usual.

Has EAGLE lost its relevance? I'd've at least expected a few posts asking if they'd come to their senses already regarding licencing, but I suppose that's  :horse:
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2669
  • Country: us
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #156 on: May 28, 2017, 02:12:06 AM »
It would seem so. Everyone I know who was using Eagle has either switched to another EDA or is sticking with the last version they have. I can't see there being many folks interested in renting it when there are other products available that are just as good.
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 203
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #157 on: May 29, 2017, 03:24:37 PM »
Calm down everyone, The bugs, the instability are more than offset by the switch to a customer friendly subscription model.  :palm:
 
The following users thanked this post: XFDDesign

Offline jgarc063

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #158 on: May 31, 2017, 06:12:33 AM »
...
Never say from these waters I will not drink. I haven't heard anyone say they have actually tried the latest 8.1.1 here. You may discover that it's not what you thought it was. EAGLE's file format is XML so you are never truly locked in as can be seen by all of the converters available in other tools. You really have nothing to lose by trying it and then forming an informed opinion.
...
Suppose you had a v7.7 user that signed up for autodesk eagle for a year (or whatever) and proceeded in earnest to give v8.1.1 a chance.

They work with it for a year and decide it's not worth the licensing hassle, or cost for added features, or perhaps some forced upgrade along the way introduces instability with their platform or graphics card.  Whatever the reason, they don't want to use the new version anymore.

Over the course of the year they have been saving their work in the native XML format.  It's unavoidable that the format of the XML files will be continuously enhanced by autodesk to support saving of files that were produced using the new features.

What guarantees can autodesk make that a user can drop back to 7.7 and not lose a year of work because the XML files are no longer backwards compatible?  Sure the new features won't work, but what survives in a .BRD/.SCH file in a downgrade from 8.1.1 to 7.7?  And I mean specifically.

I'm interested in the new modularity feature, but not at the cost of a lock in.  I'm not seeing your "nothing to lose" scenario.  Please explain how it could work with no risk.

Hello All,

I had previously mentioned that there would be a response to the above quoted concern and that I would post it once it was available. See the attached picture below.

This is the answer, if ever you wanted to switch back you would use this function to export your design files to a 8.1.1 or earlier  ;) format. EAGLE V8.2.0 was the first version of EAGLE to introduce a change to the XML structure with the online libraries feature. New features that affect the XML will converted to something that older version of EAGLE can understand to the extent possible(Hierarchy is what comes to mind here).

For those of you who where concerned about legalese and Autodesk coming after you think about what this feature implies for you as well. Would Autodesk implement this feature if there was some legal problem with a user using V7.7? Many of those working with V8 still keep and sometimes fall back to V7.7 when issues that affect their workflow have come up. It's thanks to their efforts that the week of only bug fixing was declared. A week may not sound like much, but you would be surprised what can be accomplished in that time frame with the team we have now. In any case you guys will be the judge of whether that was successful or not. I hope that this helps those who have not tried EAGLE V8 for whatever reason, to feel more comfortable in trying it out.

I hope this information is useful and if not, at least I kept my word.

Let me know if there is anything I can do for you guys(keep in mind what I can actually do :) )

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
 

Offline jgarc063

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #159 on: May 31, 2017, 06:18:59 AM »
What was up with the "Answer Day" thingee? Was it a special forum section or something? 'Cause I didn't see any more traffic than usual.

Has EAGLE lost its relevance? I'd've at least expected a few posts asking if they'd come to their senses already regarding licencing, but I suppose that's  :horse:

Hi latigid,

For EAGLE, you weren't going to see much difference. The goal of answer day is to get Autodesk employees to be more involved with the respective tools they serve. Since I'm on the Autodesk forums practically my entire workday there wasn't going to be much of a difference. Most of our users already know that the EAGLE autodesk forum is actively monitored so there is no rush to post questions. With that said, the Autodesk EAGLE forums have been pretty active. In the 4 months it's been operating we have seen about 3200 posts which is pretty good for such a short time span, it's kept me busy.

There was no special forum section or anything just the normal forums with Autodesk employees who committed to be active that day.

Hope that clarifies things.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
 

Offline H.O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 528
  • Country: se
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #160 on: May 31, 2017, 03:36:37 PM »
Quote
I hope that this helps those who have not tried EAGLE V8 for whatever reason, to feel more comfortable in trying it out.
Nah, for me and apparently a few others, it doesn't matter how good it might be as long as you stick to the subscription model - which you (Autodesk) said wasn't even on the horizon just 6 months prior to doing a full 180°.

IMO that goes to show that the horizon really isn't that far away in your case, implying you might just ditch the whole thing 6 months from now, or you just plain out lied to your customers who pretty much immediately raised the very concern of the software going subscription. Neither is very comforting.

Then again, if it was going to happen it was probably better it did so sooner than later. Oh well, the ship has sailed, I gave my money to Altium.
 

Online Karel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1018
  • Country: 00
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #161 on: May 31, 2017, 04:35:24 PM »
Quote
I hope that this helps those who have not tried EAGLE V8 for whatever reason, to feel more comfortable in trying it out.
Nah, for me and apparently a few others, it doesn't matter how good it might be as long as you stick to the subscription model - which you (Autodesk) said wasn't even on the horizon just 6 months prior to doing a full 180°.

IMO that goes to show that the horizon really isn't that far away in your case, implying you might just ditch the whole thing 6 months from now, or you just plain out lied to your customers who pretty much immediately raised the very concern of the software going subscription. Neither is very comforting.

Then again, if it was going to happen it was probably better it did so sooner than later. Oh well, the ship has sailed, I gave my money to Altium.

I couldn't have said it better.

We still have to decide if it's going to be Altium or another package like Orcad...

Btw, what pisses me off as well is that, in the past, the license, was also valid for older versions.
Now, the new subscription model is not valid for older versions prior to V8.
They really want you to eat their shit. No way that that is going to happen.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4217
  • Country: id
  • An EEE (Eternal Electronics Enthusiast)
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #162 on: May 31, 2017, 05:08:47 PM »
Btw, what pisses me off as well is that, in the past, the license, was also valid for older versions.
Now, the new subscription model is not valid for older versions prior to V8.
They really want you to eat their shit. No way that that is going to happen.

Subscription model = forever stuck and pay ransom "periodically" as long you want to use it.

The old offline software "installation" model that once installed, you can use it as long as you like is no longer valid with this business model, as simple as that.

Your problem is not technical, its purely new business model that takes time for them to cook it up in the conversion process from old to new, and this time frame allowance while they're cooking it, is what they expect from all the current old version users willing to sacrifice patiently wait and struggle, like you've been experiencing since the 1st post of this thread.

Take note again the date of the 1st post of this thread, just to remind yourself.  ;)

Time to make a decision, either to abandon boat or stuck .. errr stay.  :-DD

Offline bgm

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 34
  • Country: au
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #163 on: June 02, 2017, 06:37:06 PM »
Btw, what pisses me off as well is that, in the past, the license, was also valid for older versions.
Now, the new subscription model is not valid for older versions prior to V8.
They really want you to eat their shit. No way that that is going to happen.

Subscription model = forever stuck and pay ransom "periodically" as long you want to use it.

The old offline software "installation" model that once installed, you can use it as long as you like is no longer valid with this business model, as simple as that.

Your problem is not technical, its purely new business model that takes time for them to cook it up in the conversion process from old to new, and this time frame allowance while they're cooking it, is what they expect from all the current old version users willing to sacrifice patiently wait and struggle, like you've been experiencing since the 1st post of this thread.

Take note again the date of the 1st post of this thread, just to remind yourself.  ;)

Time to make a decision, either to abandon boat or stuck .. errr stay.  :-DD

Unfortunately, this is not the first time that Autodesk have pulled this kind of crap.  They didn't learn before with other products that they acquired and then destroyed, so I doubt that they will learn now. 

I, like so many others, are in the same boat, though in my case, my gripe is not so much with a subscription based model (that I'm actually in favour of), its the constant connection requirement.  When you spend 6-8 weeks in the middle of no-where with bugger all internet connectivity .. how is that supposed to work. 

I even went so far as to ask Matt that, and surprise surprise ... the silence has been deafening. 

Of course, one should not be surprised as this is the same individual who outright said that what has now transpired was unlikely to happen so yeah ... take that with a very large grain of salt. 

The only one at Autodesk who can hold their head high with any degree of pride is Jorge.  He at least has had the decency to call me to explain what was (and wasn't happening) and possible options. 

The process (and cost) of transitioning to an alternate tool has so far been a real bitch.   |O


BGM
/BGM
"Forward to the past!"
 

Offline abraxa

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Country: de
  • Sigrok associate
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #164 on: June 02, 2017, 09:00:00 PM »
Quote
I hope that this helps those who have not tried EAGLE V8 for whatever reason, to feel more comfortable in trying it out.
Nah, for me and apparently a few others, it doesn't matter how good it might be as long as you stick to the subscription model - which you (Autodesk) said wasn't even on the horizon just 6 months prior to doing a full 180°.

With KiCAD developing really quickly and being available for free (not counting work hours for converting libraries, schematics and boards of course), the managers at Autodesk didn't have much choice if they ever wanted to go for a subscription model. People may be willing to do the switch now but in 2 or 3 years, when KiCAD is running circles around Eagle (which it appears to already be doing for certain features), the number of people willing to be milked would probably be much less. So it probably was now or never.

That however is assuming that Eagle-using companies are willing to switch to KiCAD. I wouldn't be surprised to see consulting companies provide KiCAD support to allow managers to make the switch.
 

Offline Agent86

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 25
Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #165 on: June 03, 2017, 02:53:43 AM »
I even went so far as to ask Matt that, and surprise surprise ... the silence has been deafening.
I used to live in southern California (couldn't take it, had to leave) and I dealt with many probably well-meaning, but very ineffectual people who never accomplished anything, the kind that dealt with problems by ignoring them until they went away, while continuously pointing out how busy they were, claiming they were doing great things.  The way Matt swoops in, interacts on the forums, then disappears, just makes me think that he's a seagull manager...

Quote
The only one at Autodesk who can hold their head high with any degree of pride is Jorge.
I think you should give Ed a bit of credit as well...
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf