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Offline Karel

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Imagine you have a deadline...
« on: February 14, 2017, 06:28:47 AM »
... and you are in a rush to modify your pcb.
So you start your EDA and then this happens...
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 
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Online Mr.B

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 06:33:37 AM »
The unfortunate reality of being at the mercy of cloud service providers… >:(
Time is the overseer of all things.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2017, 08:43:35 AM »
The unfortunate reality of being at the mercy of cloud service providers… >:(

In the 60s, 70s and early 80s, most computing was done "in the cloud"[1]. The principal reason people in companies jumped on PCs was because they allowed individuals to gain control over their own data; they were no longer held hostage by their data being in silos owned by other companies.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

[1] called "timesharing bureaux".
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline MagicSmoker

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 09:23:17 AM »
... and you are in a rush to modify your pcb.
So you start your EDA and then this happens...

Erf... This is exactly why I won't do cloud-based (aka "thin client", aka "dumb terminal accessing a mainframe") software, even if  the value proposition is otherwise compelling. Thanks for posting this.

 
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Offline metrologist

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 09:34:50 AM »
You are on Cloud 9. Kick off your shoes, sit back, and relax...
 

Online Mr.B

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2017, 09:37:09 AM »
In the 60s, 70s and early 80s, most computing was done "in the cloud"[1].

Yes, I was there at the time.
Funny how things have gone full circle...
Time is the overseer of all things.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2017, 10:34:37 AM »
Yeah I don't do cloud, other than as a backup solution for files I want to access elsewhere. I flat out refuse to rent software, I won't support that business model, not gonna happen.
 
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Offline metrologist

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2017, 10:37:05 AM »
Yeah I don't do cloud, other than as a backup solution for files I want to access elsewhere. I flat out refuse to rent software, I won't support that business model, not gonna happen.

Resistance is futal. Just wait till they patent your DNA string and start charging your royalties for using their design lolol0
 

Online Mr.B

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 10:42:12 AM »
Yeah I don't do cloud, other than as a backup solution for files I want to access elsewhere. I flat out refuse to rent software, I won't support that business model, not gonna happen.

Resistance is futile.
It is the business model that most companies will move to.
It provides clearer visibility of consistent revenue.

Not saying I like it any more than you… Just reality unfortunately.
Time is the overseer of all things.
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 10:46:07 AM »
Yeah I don't do cloud, other than as a backup solution for files I want to access elsewhere. I flat out refuse to rent software, I won't support that business model, not gonna happen.

Resistance is futile.
It is the business model that most companies will move to.
It provides clearer visibility of consistent revenue.

Not saying I like it any more than you… Just reality unfortunately.
And better security from hacking of their products.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 
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Offline Avacee

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 10:51:41 AM »
The Cloud = Marketing BS for someone else computer that you have no control over.

Losing control the way the OP has is the wake-up call that control > cheaper.
 

Online james_s

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 11:29:30 AM »
Yeah I don't do cloud, other than as a backup solution for files I want to access elsewhere. I flat out refuse to rent software, I won't support that business model, not gonna happen.

Resistance is futile.
It is the business model that most companies will move to.
It provides clearer visibility of consistent revenue.

Not saying I like it any more than you… Just reality unfortunately.

I don't think resistance is futile. While companies focus less on innovation (which becomes less necessary as products mature) it gives the open source alternatives more time to catch up. Today I can do far more of my work using free/open source software than I could a decade ago and that is only going to continue. Why would I rent software when I can get something for free that does everything I need it to do?

Software rental is only viable if people bend over and take it.
 
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Offline Agent86

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 12:25:01 PM »
In the 60s, 70s and early 80s, most computing was done "in the cloud"[1]. The principal reason people in companies jumped on PCs was because they allowed individuals to gain control over their own data; they were no longer held hostage by their data being in silos owned by other companies.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".

[1] called "timesharing bureaux".
Indeed.  I have been in the computer business more than 30 years now.  Like the pendulum in fashion where skirt hems rise and fall, so computing has the pendulum that swings back and forth between thin client and thick client.  The cloud is merely the most recent version of thin client.  When customers realize they want to control their own computers and data, the pendulum will swing back to thick client.

The most compelling reason I have heard for using the cloud boils down to the idea that you can cut down your capital budget and allocate more to your operations budget.  It's all accounting shenanigans.  Nothing will change the cloud faster than a change in tax law...

There is no cloud.  It's just someone else's computer.
 

Online digsys

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 12:44:32 PM »
+1 for   -Rot in hell before I go cloud AND rent software. It's bad enough that my CAD program MUST connect to their license server before use - there's been a couple incidents when
their server was down, and I was up shlt creek without a paddle. When I complained on the forums, I was removed from them :-) .. and now I get NO replies from support emails.
So, if one day they decide to close it down, my canoe is suddenly full of holes ! Dongles are even stoopider.
Hello <tap> <tap> .. is this thing on?
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 12:50:42 PM »
Remember a few years ago when MS Money locked people out of their accounts?  Or way back when Hotmail tried to convert from Unix to Windows?
Several co-workers last year had Apple move their files to icloud.
If everyone donated even a 10th of what they would pay for software licensing to open source projects we'd all come out way ahead.
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2017, 01:31:45 PM »
 

Online FrankBuss

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2017, 01:49:50 PM »
Here's what's ultimately going to happen to EAGLE users...
https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/5t3k8k/just_for_a_laugh_enjoy_this_78_page_document/

Doesn't look too complicated, many steps seems to be optional and for companies with employees, and an IT department which manages the $$$k AutoCAD etc. packages and users.

I'm still happy with my Eagle 6, but I won't upgrade to the subscription version. I used Eagle for 20 years now, starting with the DOS version, but in the last weeks I tried KiCad and it has some quirks, but looks usable. Will try it for new projects. And another good thing is that if I don't like a quirk, now I can fix it myself (being mostly a programmer).
quadro copter flying, electronics, retro computing and other geeky things: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss/
 

Offline Elf

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2017, 02:27:58 PM »
I am just getting back into electronics after being out for almost a decade. I was going to buy Eagle (what would have been their $1100 layout and schematic license), but no longer. Autodesk and subscription based licensing; two major negatives for me, especially after previously having to deal with them for Maya and Combustion in the past (3d and video compositing).

It is looking like DipTrace or Circuitstudio are the way for me to go; leaning towards DipTrace.
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2017, 02:28:14 PM »
Doesn't look too complicated, many steps seems to be optional and for companies with employees, and an IT department which manages the $$$k AutoCAD etc. packages and users.

Read the comments in the Reddit thread.  Those are professional sysadmins. 

"Doesn't look too complicated."  That's a good one.  :wtf:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 02:30:26 PM by KE5FX »
 

Online james_s

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2017, 03:55:47 PM »

I'm still happy with my Eagle 6, but I won't upgrade to the subscription version. I used Eagle for 20 years now, starting with the DOS version, but in the last weeks I tried KiCad and it has some quirks, but looks usable. Will try it for new projects. And another good thing is that if I don't like a quirk, now I can fix it myself (being mostly a programmer).


Eagle has quirks too, you just don't notice them anymore after using it for 20 years. You get the same way after using KiCad for a while.

I tried out every EDA I could get my hands on about 8-9 years ago and came to the conclusion that they all suck, but once you get past the very limited hobbyist oriented products they will pretty much all do the job when you figure out how to work with them.
 

Offline jgarc063

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2017, 09:31:09 AM »
Hello Karel,

The solution to that particular error is to log out of your version 8.0.0 and then start 8.0.1. That's what worked for another user and I think it will work for you.

Please let me know if it doesn't.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
 

Offline MagicSmoker

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2017, 11:20:16 AM »
The solution to that particular error is to log out of your version 8.0.0 and then start 8.0.1. That's what worked for another user and I think it will work for you.

This sounds like you are forced to accept the update to a new version to continue working, something you said would not be required in that (overly long/overly bitter) thread on Autodesk taking over EAGLE.

So, please clarify what is going on here.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 03:35:19 AM »
Reliability is ...
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 03:44:19 AM »
Reliability is ...

But is the issue with eagle or windows :)
 

Offline Vtile

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Re: Imagine you have a deadline...
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 03:49:49 AM »
Pick your point and call it as a ground.
 


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