The Autodesk Eagle edition

[kaz911]

[...] if we get another market crash - some of the first stocks I'll short will be Adobe and AutoDesk as they will loose a lot of revenue fast due to their subscription models.

That one I don't understand. If they were still selling permanent licenses, they would take a disproportionate hit if the economy turns bad -- because many of their customers will postpone buying the next upgrade, or investing in an entirely new software platform, when money is tight.

Subscription income should actually make them more resilient in this respect: Customers will have to continue paying their subscription fees if they want to stay productive. Subscription fees are operating expenses, not investments, and hence more likely to remain steady. Good for Autodesk (and presumably one of their reasons for the transition to subscriptions...)

Or did I misunderstand your point here?

No - before if you had a license that expired - it would cost you dearly to "come back" in the upgrade/maintenance fold. So if you stopped updating at v2012 - to update to v2015 you would have to pay extra for the time missed. Now you just stop - and when you want to restart - you just subscribe again. So it is a no-brainer to stop subscriptions. Any financial departments will focus on expensive subscriptions in a downturn. If only downside is " loss of access " at end of period - that is the first place they will insist on saving. A big company might now cut all subscriptions - but maybe take 75% offline for a while.

[flukester]

I just received an email from Autodesk about EAGLE 8.1.

Apparently, they added Obstacle Avoidance to the routing tool. They have a little video to demonstrate.

In the email, there is also a promo code to get 50% off the Premium Subscription price, because I am a *legacy EAGLE customer*.. (I own one of the "Maker" license they were offering for a while).

It's good that they try to improve the product but like many others who have posted here, this is probably not enough to get me to Subscribe.. Perhaps if and when they fully integrate with Fusion 360, we'll see..


Antoine

[Cerebus]

A further twist. The beta of Diptrace 3.1 was out a few days ago. They have added Eagle XML import.

[timb]

A further twist. The beta of Diptrace 3.1 was out a few days ago. They have added Eagle XML import.

So, it can natively import an Eagle file now? Good! I always found it quite a pain that you actually had to install Eagle and run a ULP to export to DipTrace.

I didn't realize the beta was out, will have to pick it up tonight!

[latigid on]

The sad thing, especially for the developers, is that we're still talking about the unworkable subscription model over the new software features.

Imagine if the announcement was: EAGLE 8.1 with obstacle avoidance and follow-me router, full version $1299, upgrade from v7.x: $500, upgrade from v6.x: $850.

Especially for v6 users, I think a lot would go for this route. Could AD be convinced otherwise? 

[MarkL]

A further twist. The beta of Diptrace 3.1 was out a few days ago. They have added Eagle XML import.

Wow!  Someone who actually cares about the Eagle customer base!

I'll definitely be checking out DipTrace.

[ebastler]

Imagine if the announcement was: EAGLE 8.1 with obstacle avoidance and follow-me router, full version $1299, upgrade from v7.x: $500, upgrade from v6.x: $850.

You aren't asking a lot, aren't you? 
Just give me the permanent license model back, Autodesk, and give me a bunch of significant new features, and I'll be alright. 

[macegr]

Could someone even attempt to describe to me how obstacle avoidance is any different from the follow-me router in single-ended mode, as demonstrated in this video from 2011?


Did they really just change the name, perhaps tweak 5% of the behavior, and call it a new feature? It's not even push-and-shove!!!

What the actual eff.

[GlowingGhoul]

Did they really just change the name, perhaps tweak 5% of the behavior, and call it a new feature? It's not even push-and-shove!!!

What the actual eff.

[macegr]

In the "sneak peak" two weeks ago Matt said it was not an upgraded Follow Me but was developed from scratch. But if it does virtually the same thing with maybe a 5% tweak in improved behavior, does it really matter what happened behind the scenes? Do customers ever see that or care beyond how it works? More evidence that what happens internally within their company is more important than customer experience.

[ahbushnell]

I have worked on multiple projects that the network we used had to be air gaped from the internet.  That would preclude using Eagle now.

[PCB.Wiz]

I have worked on multiple projects that the network we used had to be air gaped from the internet.  That would preclude using Eagle now.

Indeed, & I would say such cases are increasing, not decreasing.
Every week there are more reports of  leaks and attacks....

[gildasd]

I have worked on multiple projects that the network we used had to be air gaped from the internet.  That would preclude using Eagle now.

Same thing here, air gapping isthe only viable option for smaller companies.

[jgarc063]

Could someone even attempt to describe to me how obstacle avoidance is any different from the follow-me router in single-ended mode, as demonstrated in this video from 2011?


Did they really just change the name, perhaps tweak 5% of the behavior, and call it a new feature? It's not even push-and-shove!!!

What the actual eff.

Hi Macegr,

It's actually very different, you would have to try it for yourself to see the difference. But here's the explanation.

Obstacle avoidance sets the ground floor to build push and shove so this is a milestone on the way to push and shove. The follow-me router is basically the autorouter being run on a single airwire either from one end or from both ends of the airwire. Depending on your mouse position the Autorouter will come up with a route which may include any number of transitions or bends, you can't predict what the follow-me router will produce in relation to your mouse position.

The Obstacle avoidance mode works differently, as long as you don't encounter an obstacle you are just manually routing like normal with full control. Once you encounter an obstacle, EAGLE will immediately walk around it, following your mouse cursor. This affords more predictability and hence greater control while routing. With the Follow-Me Router you are merely giving EAGLE two points and letting EAGLE figure out how it wants to get there, with this mode your dictating to EAGLE how it gets from point A to point B and it's smart enough to walk around barriers.

I understand the confusion from the videos since you can't see the mouse clicks, but try it out and you'll see it's nothing like the Follow me router.

I hope this is helpful.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

[Karel]

 

[timgiles]

Yeah, I always wondered why Eagle devs could not keep the GUI reactive whilst Eagle was caching info like the Library - and provide feeback to the user this was happening... 

[ElectronicCat]

Anyone know how licence migration from 7.0 to 8.0 is supposed to work? I applied for a free student licence just before they were bought out which I've mostly been using, but I recently downloaded 8.0 to try. I only just noticed, but it seems to think I have a full unlimited commercial licence for 8.0 whereas on 7.7 it is correctly identified as a student licence which expires at the end of this year. Have I really managed to get a free unlimited commercial licence?

[GlowingGhoul]

 

  just.keeps.getting.better

[ebastler]

Anyone know how licence migration from 7.0 to 8.0 is supposed to work? I applied for a free student licence just before they were bought out which I've mostly been using, but I recently downloaded 8.0 to try. I only just noticed, but it seems to think I have a full unlimited commercial licence for 8.0 whereas on 7.7 it is correctly identified as a student licence which expires at the end of this year. Have I really managed to get a free unlimited commercial licence?

Technically, the educational version should be identical to the commercial premium version anyway. Whether commercial use is now allowed or not is debatable, I would say. Even if the splash screen does not state the "educational use only" clause, your applicable license contract still does. On the other hand, if you choose to release a small PCB commercially, or do some freelance PCB design with your Eagle version, I doubt that Autodesk would come to haunt you... Unless you start bragging about it in online forums, maybe... 

As to the "unlimited" aspect: All Eagle licenses are time-limited (subscription only) now, and I'm pretty sure so is yours. 
 

[KE5FX]

Nothing's more educational than shipping hardware!

[jgarc063]

 

Hi Karel,

I hope you're having a good day. Try running EAGLE using the eagle_SW_OpenGL.bat that comes in EAGLE's installation directory. For users that just get the blank screen this is the current solution.

Please let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.(Remember it's about stuff that I can actually do).

Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia

[XFDDesign]

No - before if you had a license that expired - it would cost you dearly to "come back" in the upgrade/maintenance fold. So if you stopped updating at v2012 - to update to v2015 you would have to pay extra for the time missed. Now you just stop - and when you want to restart - you just subscribe again. So it is a no-brainer to stop subscriptions. Any financial departments will focus on expensive subscriptions in a downturn. If only downside is " loss of access " at end of period - that is the first place they will insist on saving. A big company might now cut all subscriptions - but maybe take 75% offline for a while.

You're assuming that the subscription price is going to be a constant throughout time, however. No one has any reason to believe that is going to be the case.

[EBRAddict]

World of Tanks    I played 2011-2013.

[DerekG]

For EAGLE users who dislike the new subscription model introduced by Autodesk, here is a special offer from DipTrace to entice you to make the move:

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/diptrace/diptrace-special-offer-for-eagle-users/

Added: DipTrace Ver 3.2 added full support to export DipTrace files back to EAGLE. An import filter (for EAGLE to DipTrace) was already in place from an earlier version:

https://diptrace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11893

[rx8pilot]

I finally [hesitantly] paid up to Autodesk for Fusion 360 and Eagle to replace Solidworks, MasterCAM, and Eagle 6.5.

I prefer not to have a cloud data system, but for my business, it is not a deal killer. Overall, the price difference is staggering and the capability of Fusion 360 is rather amazing. After 20 years of Solidworks I was very hesitant but pleasantly surprised to see what I get for a fraction of the cost. This is not the thread for me to dive into that part of it though....let me comment on Eagle.

First - let me thank the Autodesk Eagle team for introducing some critical and welcome updates. They have effectively brought the software up from 1998 to about 2007. Reasonably useful push and shove routing, some updates in part management, some integration into Fusion 360 are all excellent things. It still feels like 10 year old software in so many ways. The graphics are comedy gold. Especially crappy when working on multilayer boards. The graphics in Circuit Studio and Altium Designer are literally a decade (or more) ahead. Vastly easier to interpret. Eagle has made some updates that amount to putting lipstick on a pig. It just makes a prettier pig.

The good news is that they seem to be rather aggressive at making improvements. Obviously, I am able to make PCB's with the tool but just with some frustration.
New CAM processor is better - direct ZIP output, more control over output details.
Obstacle avoidance routing is VERY welcome.
Loop delete routing saves time.
Net labels on traces is nice (this happened a while ago I think)


Critical things that are still awful.
[still learning and discovering new features, but some observations]
Differential routing is still level 0.
Editing an existing trace with push and shove does not seem to be a feature [maybe I have not yet figured it out?]
The graphics engine is still 1998 - they added a patch feature that shows a rendered PCB in a separate window which is at least an effort.
Layer transparency is TERRIBLE.
Selection tool is still not able to select an entire track to change width
I still cannot edit a track with radiused corners and keep the radii tangent to the track.
There is still no (apparent) snap vertical-horizontal-45 degree. Making small edits to tracks a pain since they tend to end up crooked and with various angles.
While making a new part footprint - there is still no way to directly dimension as you would in any other CAD program. SO MUCH WASTED TIME trying to figure out the distances based only on the center of the pad. This is roughly 1990 level software design. Windows 3.1.
The stupid HTML tags are still needed in the comments/descriptions - seriously. Put a text bar at the top to format text like people do in 2018.

Those are just a few low-lights for the moment. Overall, I am happy with the updates and upgrades. Eagle side by side with Fusion 360 is like a 20 year old dating a 75 year old though. Just looks wrong even if they are in love.