Author Topic: The Autodesk Eagle edition  (Read 84866 times)

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Offline ehughes

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #75 on: January 20, 2017, 02:12:30 PM »
I am an Altium user but I generally like the subscription model.    It means I can sign into any computer at any time.   No network license servers, etc.   It also allows me to spread the cost while still getting updates.       I now purchase Adobe and Office through subscriptions.    I was skeptical at 1st but really like it now.  It says me time and hassle.

I understand the connectivity issue but the 6 sigma case is that you are generally connected to the internet.     The cases when you are disconnected for that long are an extreme minority.     The fact that you are posting here regularly demonstrates that.     Don't tell me that you can sign in to bitch on forums but suddenly have no internet access for designs.     I am glad the days of large shelves of design books are gone.


There is risk with Autodesk being alive over the long term but I think a 25year history is a good start.

That and it costs money to develop software.    Look at EAGLE over the past 10 years.  There has been virtually no movement.   The updates have been trivial.     That is what you get when you don't have an active influx of money to pay people to work on a product.   I moved on at EAGLE 5 as the developers weren't doing anything with the tool.   It was obvious they didn't care to improve the product.   I would have gladly paid to get more features but Altium got my money instead and I haven't looked back.

 
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Offline calexanian

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2017, 02:16:06 PM »
I can't remember. Is Auto Trax any good? It is certainly affordable.
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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2017, 02:23:22 PM »
Dave, 
Now might be a good time for an AmpHour/EEVBlog Video Rant regarding CAD licensing stupidity, as pretty every *every* vendor (excluding KiCAD) seems to get this wrong. 

Was about to do a rant on it, already had the title "The Eagle Has Sunk". But I think that 14 day thing has saved them, at least for the low cost version. This limtation should not exist for the paid professional version though.
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't care what happens after 14 days.  I care what happens after 10-15 years.  I use tools of that age all the time, from everyday text editing to instrumentation control. 

Autodesk will never guarantee that they will continue to validate licenses a decade or more from now.  Their lawyers would kill them, and only idiots would believe them.

Yes, other software works that way.  Photoshop?  Fine, plenty of other ways to edit .bmp files.  Windows?  Not happy about that, but at the end of the day (or the end of 10 years), they're not about to stop running .exe files.  EAGLE?  That's different.  No other software package will allow me to view, manipulate, maintain, and archive files created in EAGLE.  That places EAGLE in a special category, one that absolutely cannot be held hostage by a subscription server.

And then there's the way that SaaS packages tend to take control of the update schedule away from the user.  How many engineers want their CAD program to upgrade itself in the middle of a project?  None?  Well, how about hobbyists?  Any hobbyists want that?  No?  How about managers?  Any managers want that?  Hmm, OK, no, huh.  How about idiots?  Any idio... Wait, wait, don't rush the stage all at once.   There'll be plenty for everybody.  :palm:
 
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Offline bgm

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2017, 02:37:32 PM »
Dave, 
Now might be a good time for an AmpHour/EEVBlog Video Rant regarding CAD licensing stupidity, as pretty every *every* vendor (excluding KiCAD) seems to get this wrong. 

Was about to do a rant on it, already had the title "The Eagle Has Sunk". But I think that 14 day thing has saved them, at least for the low cost version. This limtation should not exist for the paid professional version though.
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.

That 14 day part screwed me well and truly over, but that is simply because I think I'm in the minority of those who spend a fair bit of time in the middle of AU where there is either zero (or pretty close to that in terms of connectivity) for extended periods of time. 

While, I'm not jumping up and down *just* yet, these changes have have left me more than a bit nervous.  CAD Software is very much like religion, and that is for a very good reason - it takes a *huge* amount of time and effort to become comfortable and familiar with a tool (whether it is Altium, Eagle, KiCAD, DipCad, etc...), so naturally when a vendor decides to up and change the rules ... people get real excited ... *REAL* quick (I would image that it's the same for the FPGA/CPLD Dev software like ISE vs Vivaldi vs Quartus, etc). 

Autodesk has done a completely *CRAP* job on the licensing for this one ... in the same way that CadSOFT did a crap job with V5-V6 licensing changes a few years back. 

You would think that a vendor, if they are going to change the license, would have thought this one through completely.  Ok, this is what we are going to do.  Now, how do we communicate this effectively?  How to we handle the existing paid customer base so that we don't piss off our existing customer base.  How to do we handle the case where the new model *doesn't* fit an existing customer? 

So far, I've not seen this done (I've watched this on a few different forums) and all that we are left with is this little "gem" from Matt on the AutoDesk Community Eagle Forum:

---> CUT HERE <---
We'll provide an upgrade path to EAGLE v8.0 here very soon!  Expect an email about upgrades very soon.
 
Best regards,

Matt
---> END CUT <---

Now, this is from the same person who said that it won't be switching to a subscription model....   Yeah .... so lets' take this with a grain of salt. 

We watch with amusement .... they (Autodesk) can either make it or seriously break it with what they say next because if they screw it up, they will be giving up their niche that they carved out for themselves in the market, and Eagle just isn't the tool to go toe-to-toe with Altium. 


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Offline bgm

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2017, 02:54:13 PM »
Dave, 
Now might be a good time for an AmpHour/EEVBlog Video Rant regarding CAD licensing stupidity, as pretty every *every* vendor (excluding KiCAD) seems to get this wrong. 

Was about to do a rant on it, already had the title "The Eagle Has Sunk". But I think that 14 day thing has saved them, at least for the low cost version. This limtation should not exist for the paid professional version though.
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't care what happens after 14 days.  I care what happens after 10-15 years.  I use tools of that age all the time, from everyday text editing to instrumentation control. 

Preventing from editing, but allowing you to open/view is one thing. 

Preventing from doing anything at all (for example ... evening opening) is quite another, and in the latter case, this unfortunately already happens.  For example ... if you are using certain Cypress PLD devices, you can no longer get hold of the WARP software needed to program them.  The same is for older AMD/Lattice parts.  I say this as someone who has had to support old devices, and even with the software, you are unable to use it due to the activation nature of it.  These bits of software really do hold you (and your designs) to ransom. 

Now, while SaaS in itself isn't necessarily *EVIL*, locking your data most definitely *is*.  There are no points of negotiation or debate there.  The problem is that if vendors continue to peddle their wares like this, and people continue to buy it, then it will continue to occur.  The only way it will change is if the market forces the vendors to change by not giving them any money.  It's as simple as that.  People continue to give them money, they will continue to do it.  If people stop giving them money, they will change their ways (or they will go broke). 

Now in this case (Eagle), they (AutoDesk) appear to allow you to open your files after your subscription expires, but you can't then change them.  I don't know if they prevent you from exporting/printing/etc.  If they did that, then it truly *would* be EVIL (and then as a company would need to die), but from my reading, that just isn't the case. 

So ... I don't consider them 100% evil .... YET .... 

The jury is out on this one though, so let's watch what they have to say in the very near future.  If nothing else it should be "interesting" .... 

/BGM
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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #80 on: January 20, 2017, 05:27:10 PM »
Dave, 
Now might be a good time for an AmpHour/EEVBlog Video Rant regarding CAD licensing stupidity, as pretty every *every* vendor (excluding KiCAD) seems to get this wrong. 

Was about to do a rant on it, already had the title "The Eagle Has Sunk". But I think that 14 day thing has saved them, at least for the low cost version. This limtation should not exist for the paid professional version though.
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't care what happens after 14 days.  I care what happens after 10-15 years.  I use tools of that age all the time, from everyday text editing to instrumentation control. 
Autodesk will never guarantee that they will continue to validate licenses a decade or more from now.  Their lawyers would kill them, and only idiots would believe them.

Right.
Sure you can just buy a new license 10=15 years from now, but will it be compatible with your old files?
Presumably you won't be able to run the current (licence) version you are using in 15 years?
 

Offline bgm

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #81 on: January 20, 2017, 06:07:44 PM »
Dave, 
Now might be a good time for an AmpHour/EEVBlog Video Rant regarding CAD licensing stupidity, as pretty every *every* vendor (excluding KiCAD) seems to get this wrong. 

Was about to do a rant on it, already had the title "The Eagle Has Sunk". But I think that 14 day thing has saved them, at least for the low cost version. This limtation should not exist for the paid professional version though.
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't care what happens after 14 days.  I care what happens after 10-15 years.  I use tools of that age all the time, from everyday text editing to instrumentation control. 
Autodesk will never guarantee that they will continue to validate licenses a decade or more from now.  Their lawyers would kill them, and only idiots would believe them.

Right.
Sure you can just buy a new license 10=15 years from now, but will it be compatible with your old files?
Presumably you won't be able to run the current (licence) version you are using in 15 years?

In regard to license ... the current version uses an installer code, so if you have the install code, providing that the binaries will run, you *should* be in luck. 

In regard to file formats, I have a little more faith.  Remember that Eagle was one of the first (if not the first) to start using a more open document format (XML). 

Now in regard to actual file versions themselves are concerned though, yeah .... it is an issue ... even now it can be a problem. 

If you saved a library in <= v4 of Eagle and try to open it with anything other than Eagle 32bit under Windows or Linux it will puke all over your shoes.  The trick there is to open it with Eagle Windows 32bit and then save it, which then saves in the XML format, and then you can open it in the newer versions (which is one of the reasons I keep a version of Eagle for 32bit in a Windows XP VM). 

That does in no way detract from the problem that old stuff is a problem to deal with, and it isn't a problem that is limited to CAD software - you get it with all sorts of stuff (old spreadsheets such as Lotus, etc) - this from someone who not so recently had to deal with old Lotus spreadsheets for timings ....  (don't ask). 

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Offline Zom-B

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #82 on: January 20, 2017, 06:58:37 PM »
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.
Eagle has at least 100% sunk for our company, because we're a hardware security company and use physically separate networks (2 pc's per office seat), and moreover, the public networks use Ubuntu and isolated network Windows. Also, of course, no direct connection between PCs of different networks is ever allowed (only USB sticks/drives). We have a very small development group so we're definitly not going to pay for big licenses.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:05:51 PM by Zom-B »
 

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2017, 07:22:22 PM »
14 days is still not good of course, but it will still let 99% of people work offline.
Eagle has at least 100% sunk for our company, because we're a hardware security company and use physically separate networks (2 pc's per office seat), and moreover, the public networks use Ubuntu and isolated network Windows. Also, of course, no direct connection between PCs of different networks is ever allowed (only USB sticks/drives). We have a very small development group so we're definitly not going to pay for big licenses.

Yep, good point and quite common.

Guess what video I'm working on at the moment...  ;D
 

Offline daqq

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #84 on: January 20, 2017, 07:23:58 PM »
Quote
All that and more in just about 3 months, I'm excited to see what will come into EAGLE in the next year. I'm saddened that some of users just immediately react with a "Subscription is evil" response without really trying out the implementation. Hopefully, the above will motivate skeptics to try the new EAGLE and see that subscription isn't enough to demerit all of the other things Autodesk has added to EAGLE.
Well, subscription IS evil. Tell me how it benefits me, the customer?

As I understand it these are the differences between the models:
- I can't work offline for a longer period (which I occasionally need to)
- I can't work without paying for it even if I don't give a damn about some new turd polish
- I have to sign in because reasons


Here's my situation: Where I work we bought a few licenses for a design system (not Eagle). Over 10 years ago. We upgraded it once. The end. We were OK with the set of features provided, did not need or deemed the "new features" (read minor improvements/turd polish) worthy 1+k$/year/license. Had they this "awesome" mandatory subscription model, we would have payed around 30000$ more... assuming they did not "change the pricing to better reflect the current market conditions". We did not have to have an education every time they made some change.

I honestly don't care what kind of awesome new features you put into the software - if you bundle it with this kind of bullshit. Unless I'd have absolutely no other choice, I'll avoid a subscription based software like the plague 💩 . I honestly do not see any benefit from the customers' point of view to a mandatory subscription based system.

Oh, for bonus points: depending on how mandatory cloudy the software is I might not even have (reasonable) access to my files should:
- the company go tits up
- some managerial guru decides on some "awesome new model" that involves screwing the customer in a new and original way
- the Internet's down/laggy/slow
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:29:53 PM by daqq »
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Offline IanJ

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #85 on: January 20, 2017, 08:47:27 PM »
Hi all,

A little playing with my PC date and wifi connection and here it is.
Playing with the PC date afterwards doesn't fix things, the only thing that does appear to work is leaving Eagle running, i.e. the check only happens as you launch Eagle.

Ian.

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Offline valgamaa

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #86 on: January 20, 2017, 08:51:30 PM »
I have been with Eagle through several major version upgrades, and been happy to pay the upgrade price each time. Major releases don't come along that often, and the upgrade price has been fair. The new pricing model ratchets the price up significantly - beyond the value I place on the software, compared with the many alternatives that try to persuade me to switch each week. I bet that most of the competitors will be offering great deals to switch over the next couple of months, Autodesk has given them all a late Christmas present.
One point that hasn't been discussed here is which regions will Autodesk choose to sell to? I clicked on the subscribe button to find that, even if I WANT to give them money, they won't sell in the country I live in. This looks like an amicable divorce to me; I don't want subscription-based software, and they wouldn't sell it to me anyway.
 

Offline madires

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #87 on: January 20, 2017, 10:56:00 PM »
What I really want to talk about is all of the new features in EAGLE. EAGLE has grown more in the last three months under Autodesk then it did in three years with Farnell.

All that and more in just about 3 months, I'm excited to see what will come into EAGLE in the next year. I'm saddened that some of users just immediately react with a "Subscription is evil" response without really trying out the implementation. Hopefully, the above will motivate skeptics to try the new EAGLE and see that subscription isn't enough to demerit all of the other things Autodesk has added to EAGLE.

Since Autodesk has put a show stopper in place all the exciting new features don't matter at all. And Eagle is only a semi-professional tool. It lacks several features, a few were just added in the last years while other tools had them for more than 15 years, and some stuff is simply :palm:. So the subscription fee isn't in proportion to the value Eagle offers. Companies with ever-changing demands like subscription models, because they don't risk unused licenses. But there are also companies prefering the old standard licence and not being forced to be cloudified. And if you have an isolated R&D network to protect your IP, which should be standard, you can't run any software requiring an internet connection. Has Autodesk heard of about contingency plans? Companies also think long-term and are asking themselves what will happen with the software and - more importantly - with the data when a software company shuts down their servers. For this kind of requirements a subscription model is an absolute no-go. Maybe Autodesk will realise this all when they see sales numbers dropping.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2017, 01:01:08 AM »

One point that hasn't been discussed here is which regions will Autodesk choose to sell to? I clicked on the subscribe button to find that, even if I WANT to give them money, they won't sell in the country I live in.
Here's another thought, prompted by my recent discovery that Digikey need software export paperwork to be able to use their device programming service - let's suppose some batshit-crazy US president decides to tighten export controls so US companies are no longer allowed to export  technical design software to certain countries.
With a subscription model , Autodesk would be forced to stop access to existing subscribers.
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Offline jgriggs

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2017, 02:20:04 AM »
Check out this post by user macegr over at Hackaday (http://hackaday.com/2017/01/19/autodesk-moves-eagle-to-subscription-only-pricing/comment-page-2/#comment-3371325):

Paragraph 1.2.1 in your EULA says we can’t downgrade to our legacy versions after upgrading to Eagle 8.0. It says that our old license is no longer valid and that if Autodesk requests it, we are to provide proof that we have returned or destroyed any copy of the previous software. What are your thoughts? Please note that if this is not true for Eagle, we’ll need to see an amended EULA because your comments on a blog will not hold the necessary legal weight. http://download.autodesk.com/us/FY17/Suites/LSA/en-US/lsa.html

Here is the text from the EULA posted at the link above by macegr (http://download.autodesk.com/us/FY17/Suites/LSA/en-US/lsa.html):

“1.2.1 Effect of Upgrades. If Autodesk or a Reseller provides Licensee with an Upgrade to other Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee, the Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee and any other Autodesk Materials relating thereto will thereafter be deemed to be a “Previous Version.” Except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), the license grant and other rights with respect to any Previous Version will terminate one hundred twenty (120) days after Installation of the Upgrade. Within such one hundred twenty (120) day period, except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), (a) Licensee must cease all use of any Previous Version and Uninstall all copies of the Previous Version, and (b) upon expiration of such period, such Previous Version will no longer constitute Licensed Materials but rather will be deemed to be Excluded Materials and Licensee will no longer have a license for any such Previous Version. At Autodesk’s request, Licensee agrees to destroy or return to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired all copies of the Previous Version. Autodesk reserves the right to require Licensee to show satisfactory proof that all copies of any Previous Version have been Uninstalled and, if so requested by Autodesk, destroyed or returned to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired.”

This is extremely concerning and very user hostile. Nothing about the EULA is in the user’s best interest, it’s completely one-sided. This emphasizes the point that EAGLE user’s should NOT support Autodesk and their one-side subscription based licensing model.
 
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Offline philpem

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2017, 02:36:48 AM »
Check out this post by user macegr over at Hackaday (http://hackaday.com/2017/01/19/autodesk-moves-eagle-to-subscription-only-pricing/comment-page-2/#comment-3371325):

Paragraph 1.2.1 in your EULA says we can’t downgrade to our legacy versions after upgrading to Eagle 8.0. It says that our old license is no longer valid and that if Autodesk requests it, we are to provide proof that we have returned or destroyed any copy of the previous software. What are your thoughts? Please note that if this is not true for Eagle, we’ll need to see an amended EULA because your comments on a blog will not hold the necessary legal weight. http://download.autodesk.com/us/FY17/Suites/LSA/en-US/lsa.html

Here is the text from the EULA posted at the link above by macegr (http://download.autodesk.com/us/FY17/Suites/LSA/en-US/lsa.html):

“1.2.1 Effect of Upgrades. If Autodesk or a Reseller provides Licensee with an Upgrade to other Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee, the Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee and any other Autodesk Materials relating thereto will thereafter be deemed to be a “Previous Version.” Except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), the license grant and other rights with respect to any Previous Version will terminate one hundred twenty (120) days after Installation of the Upgrade. Within such one hundred twenty (120) day period, except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), (a) Licensee must cease all use of any Previous Version and Uninstall all copies of the Previous Version, and (b) upon expiration of such period, such Previous Version will no longer constitute Licensed Materials but rather will be deemed to be Excluded Materials and Licensee will no longer have a license for any such Previous Version. At Autodesk’s request, Licensee agrees to destroy or return to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired all copies of the Previous Version. Autodesk reserves the right to require Licensee to show satisfactory proof that all copies of any Previous Version have been Uninstalled and, if so requested by Autodesk, destroyed or returned to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired.”

This is extremely concerning and very user hostile. Nothing about the EULA is in the user’s best interest, it’s completely one-sided. This emphasizes the point that EAGLE user’s should NOT support Autodesk and their one-side subscription based licensing model.

I guess that's so that if you, for instance, bought Autocad 10 and then bought an upgrade from 10 to 11, you can't then sell your copy of AC10 to someone else.  Not that Autocad is still a current product, it's just an example because that's the only non-EAGLE Autodesk product I can name  -- hooray for market penetration! (and other types of penetration?) ;D

The question for the lawyers to argue over is, does this apply to a subscription licence, and if so, how?
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Offline XFDDesign

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #91 on: January 21, 2017, 02:39:44 AM »
Analogies are generally horrible, but I think this is a pretty appropriate one:

I buy my cars. I have and maintain them for as long as I want to keep them. I've been buying my cars from one brand over the years, trading in my old one for a new model because it was powerful enough and affordable (even if it was ugly and used a square steeringwheel). This brand was the best option as the nearest competing brands were 3x more money. Now my brand has decided to only lease vehicles. I can trade in my old car, but if I do so, I'm putting in equal dollars to rent something I don't own. There isn't any assurance the new car will run, if it breaks down and dies off I'll be shit-out-of-luck, and I can't get my old but known-working car back. No matter what, at the end of the lease, they'll take back the car and I'm left with nothing.

This, is somehow what autodesk considers value when the fellow whines about 'people are saying subscriptions = evil,' well when you provide less value than the older product and uphold that as improvement you're going to get called out. "But features!"/"because reasons!" - I don't care. This is no different than politicians making political promises. It works for people who have no skin in the game, but for the rest of us we work with what we can touch. You can fix the clunky UI of Eagle, but don't call it a value when the cost is kicking me in the balls every time I take advantage of the feature. I'm certain the people at Autodesk have taken the same Solution Selling or similar training that goes around the major firms. You win through solving a customer's pain, not through creating new pain.

All this new scheme does, is introduce more pain to use Eagle. It is an anti-value. Many of us are now making evaluations and coming to the conclusion that the pain Autodesk is forcing on the customer exceeds the pain of learning an entirely new cad package. Off to something else.
 
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Offline rob77

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2017, 02:53:28 AM »
hmm... interesting change to the  licensing model... actually i'm a eagle user , using that Make edition (160x100mm, 6layers, 99 schematic). technically speaking i have absolutely no issue to switch to subscription model and i have absolutely no issue to pay 15$ per month... but i will not because they limited the 15$ version to 2 layers... and i simply will NOT pay 65$ per month to get 4 layers.
i used to be a happy eagle user, but now i really don't know what i'm going to do.... actually i know.. i will use the latest version of eagle which is working with my perpetual license and for the future i'll definitely switch to a different software.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2017, 02:57:31 AM »
Dear Autodesk,

THANK YOU for switching to a subscription model. This will ensure continuous development and support for Eagle. My license will be affected by this change, but I think it's a great move overall for all the obvious reasons.

 :-+

As for everyone vilifying Autodesk for paying its developers and actually expecting to make <gasp!> profits, shut yer pie holes, go run KiCad and hope that the EU keeps on subsidizing its development costs.

Sheesh...
 

Offline XFDDesign

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2017, 03:00:36 AM »
As for everyone vilifying Autodesk for paying its developers and actually expecting to make <gasp!> profits, shut yer pie holes, go run KiCad and hope that the EU keeps on subsidizing its development costs.

I remember all of those automakers going bankrupt until the ones who survived switched to lease-only cars. Sad times that.
I remember all of those scope makers going bankrupt until the ones who survived switched to lease-only scopes. Sad times that.
I remember all of those <tangible product> manufacturers going bankrupt until the ones who survived switched to lease-only <tangible product>. Sad times that.
etc.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 03:25:17 AM by XFDDesign »
 

Offline rob77

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2017, 03:19:42 AM »
Dear Autodesk,

THANK YOU for switching to a subscription model. This will ensure continuous development and support for Eagle. My license will be affected by this change, but I think it's a great move overall for all the obvious reasons.

 :-+

As for everyone vilifying Autodesk for paying its developers and actually expecting to make <gasp!> profits, shut yer pie holes, go run KiCad and hope that the EU keeps on subsidizing its development costs.

Sheesh...

i would like to switch to the subscription model as well... but they simply don't offer a subscription equivalent to my current license.... if they would make the 15$/month subscription to have 4 layers, then i would be in.
 

Offline JonnyH

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2017, 05:07:48 AM »
I'm surprised that no one noticed this little crap-bomb in the license agreement (below, long, quoted)

In short, at least according to my reading, it means that Autodesk can upload any user data in the background without notification, use it for their purposes and/or provide it to third parties and affiliates, for any purpose. While I'm certain that it doesn't mean that they have any rights to your designs, it does mean (again, according to my reading) that they're taking your data, including design data, and monetizing in some respect. And it means that your data is (potentially) no longer in your sole possession, and possibly by unnamed entities that may not treat the data as well as Autodesk would.

To be fair, it doesn't mean that they will do this. But they are retaining that right. Not cool. Makes Eagle a non-starter in my org.

Quote
4. Privacy; Use of Information; Connectivity

4.1 Privacy and Use of Information. Licensee acknowledges and agrees that Licensee (and third parties acting on Licensee’s behalf) may provide, and Autodesk and its Resellers (and third parties acting on behalf of Autodesk and its Resellers) may obtain, certain information and data with respect to Licensee (including, without limitation, personal information) and Licensee’s business in connection with this Agreement, including, without limitation, information and data provided to or obtained by Autodesk and its Resellers (or third parties acting on behalf of Autodesk and its Resellers) through the Customer Information Form and otherwise, in connection with ordering, registration, activation, updating, validating entitlement to, auditing, monitoring Installation of and Access to Autodesk Materials, Relationship Programs and Services and managing the relationship with Licensee. Licensee hereby consents to Autodesk maintaining, using, storing and disclosing such information and data (including, without limitation, personal information, if any) in conformity with Autodesk’s policies on privacy and data protection, as such policies may be updated from time to time, including without limitation Autodesk’s Privacy Statement, as currently located at http://usa.autodesk.com/privacy/. Without limitation of the generality of the foregoing, Licensee acknowledges and agrees that: (a) Autodesk may from time to time prompt Licensee (and third parties acting on Licensee’s behalf) to provide express agreement to the terms of Autodesk’s Privacy Statement and/or express agreement to specific uses of information and data (including, without limitation, personal information); (b) Autodesk may provide information and data, including, without limitation, information and data about Licensee’s use of Autodesk Materials, Relationship Programs, and Licensee’s support requests, to Autodesk subsidiaries and affiliates, Resellers and other third parties in connection with the provision, maintenance, administration or usage of Licensed Materials, Relationship Programs or Services or in connection with enforcement of any agreements relating to Licensed Materials, Relationship Programs or Services; and (c) Autodesk may make cross-border transfers of such information and data, including to jurisdictions with privacy or data protection laws that are less protective of Licensee than the jurisdiction in which Licensee is domiciled. Licensee acknowledges and agrees that such policies may be changed from time to time by Autodesk and that, effective upon posting on Autodesk’s website or other written notice from Autodesk, Licensee will be subject to such changes.

4.2 Connectivity. Certain Licensed Materials may facilitate or require Licensee’s access to and use of content and services that are hosted on websites maintained by Autodesk or by third parties. In some cases, such content and services may appear to be a feature or function within, or extension of, the Licensed Materials on Licensee’s Computer even though hosted on such websites. Accessing such content or services and use of Licensed Materials may cause Licensee’s Computer, without additional notice, to connect automatically to the Internet (transitorily, intermittently or on a regular basis) and to communicate with an Autodesk or third-party website—for example, for purposes of providing Licensee with additional information, features and functionality or to validate that the Licensed Materials and/or content or services are being used as permitted under this Agreement or other applicable terms. Such connectivity to Autodesk websites is governed by Autodesk’s policies on privacy and data protection described in this Section 4 (Privacy; Use of Information; Connectivity). Such connectivity to websites of third parties is governed by the terms (including the disclaimers and notices) found on such sites or otherwise associated with the third-party content or services. Autodesk does not control, endorse, or accept responsibility for any such third-party content or services, and any dealings between Licensee and any third party in connection with such content or services, including, without limitation, such third party’s privacy policies, use of personal information, delivery of and payment for goods and services, and any other terms associated with such dealings, are solely between Licensee and such third party. Autodesk may at any time, for any reason, modify or discontinue the availability of any third-party content or services. Access to and use of certain content and services (whether of Autodesk or third parties) may require assent to separate terms and/or payment of additional fees.
 

Offline valgamaa

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2017, 05:22:25 AM »

As for everyone vilifying Autodesk for paying its developers and actually expecting to make <gasp!> profits, shut yer pie holes, go run KiCad and hope that the EU keeps on subsidizing its development costs.

Sheesh...

I don't think anyone has suggested that Autodesk shouldn't make a profit. The new model is a massive change from what was originally promised, so not surprisingly that has irritated people.
Count yourself lucky that you can shut your pie hole and subscribe - there are a number of countries they simply won't sell the subscription at any price.
 

Online Jeroen3

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #98 on: January 21, 2017, 05:34:20 AM »
7.7 is going to be a popular version for a long time.
Olders versions are available here.
ftp://ftp.cadsoft.de/eagle/program/
for now...
 

Offline jgriggs

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Re: The Autodesk Eagle edition
« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2017, 05:39:27 AM »
Dear Autodesk,

THANK YOU for switching to a subscription model. This will ensure continuous development and support for Eagle. My license will be affected by this change, but I think it's a great move overall for all the obvious reasons.

 :-+

As for everyone vilifying Autodesk for paying its developers and actually expecting to make <gasp!> profits, shut yer pie holes, go run KiCad and hope that the EU keeps on subsidizing its development costs.

Sheesh...

This is an extremely counter productive post to your argument and is also quite rude. The problem is not with Autodesk making money on Eagle as a product or fairly paying their developers for their time and effort to make improvements. It's about the change to the licensing model and how it affects longtime Eagle users. I truly support paying a fair price for Eagle but I want a perpetual license that doesn't phone-home.  I'm more then willing to pay a fair yearly fee for a maintenance upgrade so long as the license is perpetual. I don't support subscription based licensing because it makes me dependent on the software provider. I want to own the things I purchase. This may be a foreign concept to you, or maybe you just don't care, but I assure you many of us do value ownership and the lack of reliance on a third-party to use the products we purchase. Please think next time before you post.
 
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