Opinions - AutoTRAX Design Express 2020

[IanJ]

All,

Ok, I video'd the issue at 50fps and uploaded to YouTube.

Compare the same pcb loaded into both EaglePCB and DEX and as I pan it around. See how the pcb (graphics) lags behind the cursor on DEX.

https://youtu.be/tH8bpYkotcc

Ian.

[rsjsouza]

0.5".....meaning half an inch.

Error! Can't compute word "inch" with my metric mindset... (I was thinking about the "prime" symbol)

I saw the video and it looks similar to what I see, but I can't tell for sure as my install is at the home PC. I will do a comparison tonight.

[IanJ]

Hi Ian,

Saw it on mine, not sure if it a graphics issue instead some else. I must admit I would never move a PCB that fast or even move it to a degree of accuracy at that speed anyway so I never really noticed it when first posted the problem.

Not sure I would consider it as a serious issue but if something can be done then by all means it should be done. The movement of the PCB board between EagleCAD and DEX though, DEX is better (smoother) than EagleCAD. Maybe that is the key to why the mouse follows slower.

What I did on the Youtube video is just a way to try and demonstrate the issue.
In real life problem is just moving the board around on-screen in the normal course of editing a pcb and the board 'lagging' behind the mouse movements......even if it's just plain moving the board once, say an inch to the left.

Ian.

[Monkeh]

The movement of the PCB board between EagleCAD and DEX though, DEX is better (smoother) than EagleCAD. Maybe that is the key to why the mouse follows slower.

It is far more important to have the display follow your input than to draw it pixel-perfect every frame. Eagle is better.

Eagle slows down badly with multiple layers and polygons. I dread to think how DEX copes.

[mswhin63]

When you do multiple layers tell us and we will know! no comparison so no way to even assume.

It is far more important to have the display follow your input than to draw it pixel-perfect every frame. Eagle is better.

Eagle slows down badly with multiple layers and polygons. I dread to think how DEX copes.

[rsjsouza]

Ian, I guess I see the same lag, although it doesn't bother me too much:

https://youtu.be/OVqSnpFadtg

The board is the provided Arduino example; only two layers

[Monkeh]

When you do multiple layers tell us and we will know! no comparison so no way to even assume.

It is far more important to have the display follow your input than to draw it pixel-perfect every frame. Eagle is better.

Eagle slows down badly with multiple layers and polygons. I dread to think how DEX copes.

It already behaves badly so it can't get any better. Not investing the time to deal with learning it, and it's incapable of importing Eagle files correctly.

[Warhawk]

When you do multiple layers tell us and we will know! no comparison so no way to even assume.

It is far more important to have the display follow your input than to draw it pixel-perfect every frame. Eagle is better.

Eagle slows down badly with multiple layers and polygons. I dread to think how DEX copes.

It already behaves badly so it can't get any better. Not investing the time to deal with learning it, and it's incapable of importing Eagle files correctly.

+1 , I am definitely with you. Especially after I saw how the author ignores comments which are not easy to explain, to fix or simply to comment.

[Takto]

It already behaves badly so it can't get any better. Not investing the time to deal with learning it, and it's incapable of importing Eagle files correctly.

I couldn't agree more. 

[IanJ]

Well, I have dipped a toe and this next pcb for the project I am working on now is being designed using DEX (hand held precision programmable voltage source)..........been on it just 1-day so far and already I've designed a custom part in the library, made an error on the part and edited it..........all without much problem. Have to say managing the library is sooooo much easier than EaglePCB.

But yes, the author seems to go quiet and unresponsive at times (I have one on-going issue), but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt as it is just 1-guy from what I know.

Ian.

[IanJ]

Hi all,

As an update, I spent most of the weekend working on my first AutoTrax DEX project and give the author his due, I came across several issues over the weekend and reported them.......and he fixed them right there and then. Mostly related to schematic design.

I even managed to get some new functionality added in in relation to the library management, which I have to say overall works really well......and coming from EaglePCB it's like chalk n cheese compared.

One thing I did make use of was importing my entire EaglePCB library at the press of a button......over 30k components, and only a couple thousand failed to import.

Haven't done any routing though, that comes later this week.

Ian.

[c4757p]

Uhm.

Okaaaaaay.

Next time you consider using this software, realize it was written by the sort of developer who thinks it's perfectly fine to send someone his damned password in  his email.

Must have learned to code at clown school.


Kids, this is why you don't use the same password at multiple sites. Sometimes you don't even have to wait for a hacker kiddie to steal them somehow, the idiot website owner will do it all on his own...

Iliya, hand in your programmer card until your password database is hashed and salted and you don't have plaintext passwords anywhere anymore.

[mswhin63]

Get a more recent reference. That is 2013 password issue. Mine is not sent across any-more and it is so secure it can't saved in my Norton Vault.

Uhm.

Okaaaaaay.

Next time you consider using this software, realize it was written by the sort of developer who thinks it's perfectly fine to send someone his damned password in  his email.

Must have learned to code at clown school.


Kids, this is why you don't use the same password at multiple sites. Sometimes you don't even have to wait for a hacker kiddie to steal them somehow, the idiot website owner will do it all on his own...

Iliya, hand in your programmer card until your password database is hashed and salted and you don't have plaintext passwords anywhere anymore.

[c4757p]

I got that email this morning, dude.

[IanJ]

I got that email this morning, dude.

Not good!

Might as well update.............I've temporarily (I hope!) gone back to Eagle for the moment until 3 or 4 issues are fixed......well, I call them issues anyways. I am hopeful though that Iliya will fix these.

- Copper pours cannot be used a full-on ground planes (despite fact you can assign a net name), result is that netwires still exist after you drop a via from say pin 4 of an op-amp to pick up GND.

- No full manual tracking per Eagle, i.e. you can't lay down a track and then assign/terminate it to a net later. You have to start with a net. This reduces the flexibility when compared to Eagle. You can lay down polylines which achieves the same thing, however, their are outwith the DRC and don't get a net name.

- UI is slow when tracking.

- Block moving stuff needs work. Not everything moves, some traces get left behind.

Here's a board I developed from scratch in both Eagle (left) and DEX (right). The DEX one pictured is at the point I gave up and went back to Eagle when I couldn't get DEX to do what I wanted without mucking about forever or compromising too much.

Saying that, I still think DEX is a winner if the various issue scan be resolved. The best bit about the software is the library management & the schematic design module.......real nice.

PS. Iliya is working on some of the issues above.

Ian.

[zapta]

Must have learned to code at clown school.

Come on, he programed this entire product by himself. That's very impressive.

[Mechatrommer]

Here's a board I developed from scratch in both Eagle (left) and DEX (right). The DEX one pictured is at the point I gave up and went back to Eagle when I couldn't get DEX to do what I wanted without mucking about forever or compromising too much.

can you make the picture a little bigger? i cant make any difference, they both seem identical, not like what you said.

Must have learned to code at clown school.

Come on, he programed this entire product by himself. That's very impressive.

indeed. only the problem is he cant afford to hire a marketing or support personnel to do the right job. risking security is something not good. imagine you lost $1000 from your wallet thats sheet happening.

[c4757p]

Must have learned to code at clown school.

Come on, he programed this entire product by himself. That's very impressive.

Fuck that. He's storing passwords in plaintext and mailing them out, who gives a damn if he also did some things that don't take massive risks with his users' security? Good things don't cancel bad ones.

Besides, I'd much rather a product that wasn't programmed by a one-man band, it might actually be usable.

[IanJ]

Here's a board I developed from scratch in both Eagle (left) and DEX (right). The DEX one pictured is at the point I gave up and went back to Eagle when I couldn't get DEX to do what I wanted without mucking about forever or compromising too much.

can you make the picture a little bigger? i cant make any difference, they both seem identical, not like what you said.

See a bunch of unrouted nets on the Dex screenshot. I can upload higher res pic If you still want but......

Ian.

[BytesGuy]

I have played with this once before a long time ago and it seemed like quite a nice program and reasonable price for a hobbyist such as myself.

Since then I have been mostly using diptrace after giving up with eagle. Problem is I am reaching the pin limit on diptrace, so I am going to give autotrax another shot and see how I get on.

It does seem to be update regularly and although there is a single author he does seem fairly onto it when you contact him.

There does seem to be an issue when using a retina macbook with a virtual machine though. Not sure if there is any fix.

[Neganur]

What's up with so many of the replies missing?

[Monkeh]

What's up with so many of the replies missing?

Looks like Iliya thought it was somehow a good idea to delete all his posts and pretend he was never here.

[miguelvp]

What's up with so many of the replies missing?

Looks like Iliya thought it was somehow a good idea to delete all his posts and pretend he was never here.

He still have posts in this thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/opinions-autotrax-design-express-2020/msg532051/#msg532051

But I didn't go through the whole thing to see who deleted what.

[Monkeh]

What's up with so many of the replies missing?

Looks like Iliya thought it was somehow a good idea to delete all his posts and pretend he was never here.

He still have posts in this thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/opinions-autotrax-design-express-2020/msg532051/#msg532051

But I didn't go through the whole thing to see who deleted what.

Oh, so he does.

[BengtR]

Hi! (Just registered so this is my first time here).
DEX uses what you can call "Net wire routing". With that I mean that you route, and are restricted to, route by the net wires. Net wires are similar to the, for all I know, more common rats nest lines but more strictly correlated to the routing. Rats nests are instead only representing guides to unconnected nodes but you can put down a trace anywhere you want. I have understood that DesignSpark also uses this method but for me it was new until I saw it in DEX. After trying this I can see a minor benefit in some situation or for early beginners but mostly it only complicates things, both for the user and the developer of the program - there have been, and still are, a lot of bugs concerning net wires. Using the normal method you only need on way to create traces, you just do it using one tool like "create trace" or something. With net wires you need extra tools or options to be able to create parallel traces, stubs or unconnected free traces. Can anyone tell me if there are more programs that uses net wires and when and how this method came to use? And also it there are any specific benefits that I have not thought about.