Opinions - AutoTRAX Design Express 2020

[free_electron]

DEX does not need to import 3D models. It generates the 3D automatically from the part. No need for you to do anything! 

Regards
Iliya Kovac

Hmmm . So how do you deal with part height ? Like of qfn packages ? Some are 1.2 mm some are 1.5 mm..

On this whole 3D subject. I met the guys from diptrace yesterday at devcon. They were handing out flyers. They had a strange attitude. Didn't seem friendly, looked kinda bored. Pushed a flyer in your hand and that was sorta it. I asked them about their 3D capabilities as they had a kind of video playing. In essnece all that 3D stuff is only eye-candy. What's you opinion ?

I want 3D design rule checking! ( like altium does) being able to load a step file of a complex mechanical chasis, slice it, project the slice to a board contour , place parts and heve the tool tell me : you can't place that part here because it is too tall.

When i'm done i want to export a mechanically accurate step file so my mechanical engineers can crosscheck. That is what 3d should be used for. Anyhting else is just a fancy renderer. Big whoop.

Couple of weeks ago i had to help a customer doing a layout. Mechanical tolerances were very thight. We had to handpick parts , i created mechanically accurate linraires by pulling the step files from the parts vendors. Pulled in the chassis ( a harddisk drive ) did the placement. Altium worked like a charm. I had realtime feedback of what could and could not be done. In half a day i closed the layout.
Board fits perfectly.

Now, i dont know avout autotrax, but if that is not what you intend to do with 3d, please drop it and focus on something else .

So i am wondering about this automatic generation of parts. There is no way you can do this. What about connectors ? That auto stuff may work for old crap like dil and idc pinheaders but there's thousands of other packages out there. Better make sure you can read and write Step. As that is the common 3d format out there.

[poorchava]

That's exactly the problem with DipTrace - VRML is no good. Most 3d cads (tried Solidworks, Catia, Alibre) can't convert VRML to STEP/IGES which makes is useless for mechanical engineering purposes.

[free_electron]

Not only diptrace. Loook we do sketchup integration. (Eagle)

So what. Come back when you support the standards. Thats like making a pcb layout tool that cannot create gerber.  Only 75 dpi dithered bitmaps printed at 1:3 scale...

That is the problem with all these entry level tools. They want to slap on 3d desperately because it looks cool, but it has no functionality. The time wasted on that should be spent on adding elementary things for pcb layout. Like push-n-shove , realtime drc and other things that make life easy.

[Mechatrommer]

That is the problem with all these entry level tools.

another problem is... they are cheap. i think its not fair to ask $K feature(s) to be implemented in these cheaper packages. even if they can, then they deserve to increase the price to $K entry.

They want to slap on 3d desperately because it looks cool, but it has no functionality.

imho it has. even though they cannot automatically detect collision course, but at least i can do it in my head by looking at the rendered 3d models. something is better than nothing.

realtime drc and other things that make life easy.

i cant recall one pcb eda i used last time. with its own wisdom tried to reroute my currently routed trace to avoid existing traces (i guess thats the realtime drc). slightly moving the trace (mouse) to the left or right changed the routing dramatically around, made my head felt dizzy, i prefer to do it manually one step at a time. i agree with automatic/realtime drc feature, but if it cannot be disabled, i prefer they dont do it at all, easier for others sometime difficult for others, just like a luxurious AT car if driven by a lady with mosquito net on her face compared to by a street racer.

just look at the comments on "autorouter" feature how shitty it is even in Al?ium. if i'm the developer i'll think twice if i have to put my first effort on it. imo they can make it "not shitty" but that requires a bunch of proffesors sitting around formulating the theory for that, and that can cost another multi $K cost.

[free_electron]

they are cheap. i think its not fair to ask $K feature(s) to be implemented in these cheaper packages. even if they can, then they deserve to increase the price to $K entry.

price got nothing to do with it. it's the know-how that costs time and money. and is way above the skills of the programmers.

i can do it in my head by looking at the rendered 3d models. something is better than nothing.

that's the same way as eyeballing if table will go through the door. not until yo physically try it will you be sure.. you either measure it , or try it. 'guessing is bullshit'.
That is the reasen there are things like CAd exchange through STEP or IGES files. people hve been doing that for years. tie to bring it into the PCB world.

(i guess thats the realtime drc).

no. realtime drc is design roule checking. if you try to do something that violates the ruleset the tool refuses.

  "autorouter" feature how shitty it is even in Al?ium.

autorouters are 'shitty' because people don't feed them information and expect the thing to do everything by itself. garbage in is garbage out.
'programming' the router criteria ( the design rules) is an art in itself. and will take a lot of effort.
you will never reach full automatic routing. autorouters are good for interactrive usage like bus routing, controlled impedance, matched lengths etc. That is what autorouters are to be used for.

[mamalala]

That is the problem with all these entry level tools. They want to slap on 3d desperately because it looks cool, but it has no functionality.

Very true. Most of them just use it as a "look, how shiny!" gimmick. It gets useful only once the part dimensions of the 3D models are exact, and if the stuff is used to find out how it fits into a specific enclosure. The tool should be able to tell you that, basically a design rule check against the 3D parameters of the project. Pretty pictures alone just don't cut it.

Greetings,

Chris

[Mechatrommer]

I am sorry to hear this.

I think this is a problem with your graphics driver.
DEX uses .NET and DirectX and pushes the graphics.

Please try upgrading your graphics card.

i've downloaded the latest version 1.12.84. the GUI mangling is gone, now its showing perfectly again. since the programmer blaimed on my graphic card i believe he has made "accidental fix" on it. kudos to ilija for this "accidental repair" now i can relearn DEX from where i was last time . be it that i followed the advice, by now i should already have another extra spare graphic card

[DavidDLC]

Ilja, how do you like the free publicity ?

You better talk to Dave and paid him to have your add on the main page.

When I bought your horrible program for $99.00 USD, I didn't know that I need to pay that every year.

So if that is the case with your current price, explain the people that need to pay $49.00 every year for that toy application.

Again, what an easy way to get free publicity, go ahead and pay Dave for this.

[Mechatrommer]

Ilja, how do you like the free publicity ?
You better talk to Dave and paid him to have your add on the main page.
When I bought your horrible program for $99.00 USD, I didn't know that I need to pay that every year.
So if that is the case with your current price, explain the people that need to pay $49.00 every year for that toy application.
Again, what an easy way to get free publicity, go ahead and pay Dave for this.

i agree. not just he has to pay to admin, but he also needs to clarify some obscure stuffs. such as by claiming "fully functional" demo version, but it turned out i missed some of the fundamental features, such as previewing 3D picture (in the video it is a breeze as clicking a tab or button, but not in my installed version). not indicating such thing including this yearly fee is very unprofessional and users unfriendly, imho. anyway, dex is too slow for my taste now and i have yet to see it doing complex stuff, so i will hold my money in my ash for this moment.

[Mechatrommer]

i mean in example tutorial or anywhere else. i only play with small test circuit. but unfortunately... my computer is quite slow, hmm.

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

i mean in example tutorial or anywhere else. i only play with small test circuit. but unfortunately... my computer is quite slow, hmm.

Very Unfortunate ,
    One PCB Software designer is himself is on the forum instead of appreciating what he has he is being grilled by three or four people of the forum

Note :  Again and again its happening ,You People do not like his software please forget and and do not comment  .

[Mechatrommer]

its just my opinion, just as the title said. so i believe i'm still on-topic, am i not?
reports like this are very valuable imho, since not all matters are presented by the creator. it can be a lesson for anybody else, direct advice or opinion from real users.
the creator should be flattered since we are bunch of people who are willing wasting time testing his creation and give CnC, its up to him to accept it, or try to defend (deny) it to infinity.

[DavidDLC]

Very Unfortunate ,
    One PCB Software designer is himself is on the forum instead of appreciating what he has he is being grilled by three or four people of the forum

Note :  Again and again its happening ,You People do not like his software please forget and and do not comment  .
[/quote]

He would not have this comments from me, I was honest with him that his software didn't work on my computer, I followed all his recommendations ( even format the HDD ) and still didn't work, so I asked for a refund and he didn't do it.

Put on my side as a customer, I paid for the product it never worked, so my money was robbed.

Even if the price is $0.01, if the product does not work you deserve the refund. In my case I lost $99.00 USD, even with $99.00 USD today I will be able to buy a mid-range multimeter or solder station or something else.

He never thought of me as a customer, maybe he was thinking only on the money side.

I want to know the people to be aware of my bad experience with this, and hopefully Ilija would learn his lesson.

I'm still a very mad AutoTrash customer after several years passed from my bad experience.

So any comment Ilija will make on my comments, please people put on my side as a customer.

David

[free_electron]

There is a trend to not do this and developers want to rent the program to you e.g. Altium.

Check your sources on that one. That just is not true. A licence is perpetual. you get 12 months of updates. after that you need to pay for antohr 12 months. If you don;t pay the software continues to work . So this is exactly what you do : after 12 months you pay for continued updates. ( except altium doesn't charge full price like you do )

Now, a word of friendly advice : if you want this program to be taken seriously  change the last video you posted on youtube. The routing of that board makes my eyes water and toes curl, it's another 'arduino-class' device routed by baboons...

Why don't you make a real board layout and make a video of that. Any PCB designer looking for a tool that sees that kind of a layout will flag this is 'junk'. I know this is a perception but it does your business no good to have a crappy board used as 'showcase'. Nobody is going to take it seriously.

[free_electron]

Umm. Why am I posting on to a forum that sells DipTrace. 

Cause you think yours is better ? ( not meant negatively )
Cause you want to push your business ?

All perfectly valid reasons.

But go fix that demo video. No pcb tool company that wants to be taken seriously would be caught showing that kind of layout work ..... it reflects bad on the tool...

Now on diptrace.. They were at Devcon two weeks ago. Three grumpy guys shoving a folder in your hand , looking very uninterested ... not a good impression. They were only showing a prepackaged video. Not even a computer with a live version in sight... Not a good idea to be at Devcon which puls 20000 visitors and has Altium / Cadence / Mentor /  Zuken / Elemtn 14(eagle) all showcasing their stuff as well... wrong pond to be fishing in. Especially with that attitude.

[mstevens]

Very Unfortunate ,
    One PCB Software designer is himself is on the forum instead of appreciating what he has he is being grilled by three or four people of the forum

Note :  Again and again its happening ,You People do not like his software please forget and and do not comment  .

He would not have this comments from me, I was honest with him that his software didn't work on my computer, I followed all his recommendations ( even format the HDD ) and still didn't work, so I asked for a refund and he didn't do it.

Put on my side as a customer, I paid for the product it never worked, so my money was robbed.

David
[/quote]

OMG!!! DUDE!!! LET IT GO!!!!

... ok I am going to say it even though I know it must be a thought in at least someone else's mine.  It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the software did not run on your machine!! Unless you were not running a true Microsoft Window OS.  Can you bring one other person to this forum that could corroborate your story?!?  In other word do you know of ANY other single person who can verify that Autotrax or DEX did not work on their system?!!??

I would bet that you could not.  Your tenacity to this TRIVIAL issue is quite ABSURD!!!  You really are just SPAMMING THIS FORUM!!!!  STOP IT!!!

As far as I am concerned you are just someone who is looking for something for free.  It probably worked fine and you just did not want to pay for it!!  To prove me wrong on this, can you provide information as to any PCB/EDA package for which you have actually paid for a license and still own the license?

I don't mind people giving their experiences and I don't even mind when people trash others but D**N  reading the same post over and over is just OLD!! AND AGREVATING!!!  DUDE GET A LIFE!!  If $99 means that much to you I suggest you get some more education, particularly an engineering degree and get you a better job!!

[c4757p]

...you seriously don't believe him that it doesn't work on his computer?  There are so many variables - graphics driver first of all, conflicting software and DLLs, etc... It is not unlikely at all. For example, I have a computer that won't take an install of MPLAB X at all, even with a fresh installation of Windows and nothing else. Sometimes things just don't work.

[mstevens]

...you seriously don't believe him that it doesn't work on his computer?  There are so many variables - graphics driver first of all, conflicting software and DLLs, etc... It is not unlikely at all. For example, I have a computer that won't take an install of MPLAB X at all, even with a fresh installation of Windows and nothing else. Sometimes things just don't work.

No I don't believe him! But perhaps that is because by profession I am an IT Professional (25+ years) and currently work in a group that runs large labs ( >500 desktops, macs and pcs).  I also hold several MS Certifications and a BSEE from one of the top EE curriculums in the US.   ...Well now that I put it that way I am a little over-qualified to double-click a setup program and install a package ...I guess it take a little more than a caveman to install the package.  I take it for granted that I know how to solve such problems.

I also wanted to note that I understand all the variables.  Heck, having an EE degree and having taken many digital design, including processor design, I even understand how cosmic rays could affect a computer system.  ...ummm yeah... I don't buy into his story.

But say I did believe him. O FRACKING K ALREADY!! There comes a time when you have to quit SPAMMING others!!!  I do believe however that it is most probable that he is not give the full truth of the story.  I am anxious to hear from him on the PCB/EDA package for which he has paid and still own a license or for him to bring forth someone else for whom the package also did not work!

[DavidDLC]

"OMG!!! DUDE!!! LET IT GO!!!! "

As I mentioned before I won't

"... ok I am going to say it even though I know it must be a thought in at least someone else's mine.  It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the software did not run on your machine!! Unless you were not running a true Microsoft Window OS."

Do you want a copy of the Windows installation disk ? A scan ? I still have the installation disks for XP, Vista and currently Windows 7.


  "Can you bring one other person to this forum that could corroborate your story?!?  In other word do you know of ANY other single person who can verify that Autotrax or DEX did not work on their system?!!?? "

Can you prove that it worked on my system and I was looking for free software ?

"I would bet that you could not.  Your tenacity to this TRIVIAL issue is quite ABSURD!!!  You really are just SPAMMING THIS FORUM!!!!  STOP IT!!! "

I also would bet that you cannot prove that it worked on my system


"As far as I am concerned you are just someone who is looking for something for free.  It probably worked fine and you just did not want to pay for it!!

I was not looking for something for free, because I paid the $99.00 USD. And I did follow all the recommendations trying to make it to work.


"To prove me wrong on this, can you provide information as to any PCB/EDA package for which you have actually paid for a license and still own the license?"

Oh fuck I will prove you wrong, I bought a $500.00 USD license for Eagle that I'm still using and have not paid any single dime for updates.

Do you want the receipt ? Do you want an email from them telling you I bought the software ? Just tell me and I will provide.



I don't mind people giving their experiences and I don't even mind when people trash others but D**N  reading the same post over and over is just OLD!! AND AGREVATING!!!  DUDE GET A LIFE!!

I just want people to be aware of the bad customer experience I had. It's not about the money.


 "If $99 means that much to you I suggest you get some more education, particularly an engineering degree and get you a better job!!"

Make some investigation before posting things you don't know, it's not about the money, just don't want people to have a bad experience, you seem to desperate to stop this.

[DavidDLC]

...you seriously don't believe him that it doesn't work on his computer?  There are so many variables - graphics driver first of all, conflicting software and DLLs, etc... It is not unlikely at all. For example, I have a computer that won't take an install of MPLAB X at all, even with a fresh installation of Windows and nothing else. Sometimes things just don't work.

No I don't believe him! But perhaps that is because by profession I am an IT Professional (25+ years) and currently work in a group that runs large labs ( >500 desktops, macs and pcs).  I also hold several MS Certifications and a BSEE from one of the top EE curriculums in the US.   ...Well now that I put it that way I am a little over-qualified to double-click a setup program and install a package ...I guess it take a little more than a caveman to install the package.  I take it for granted that I know how to solve such problems.

I also wanted to note that I understand all the variables.  Heck, having an EE degree and having taken many digital design, including processor design, I even understand how cosmic rays could affect a computer system.  ...ummm yeah... I don't buy into his story.

But say I did believe him. O FRACKING K ALREADY!! There comes a time when you have to quit SPAMMING others!!!  I do believe however that it is most probable that he is not give the full truth of the story.  I am anxious to hear from him on the PCB/EDA package for which he has paid and still own a license or for him to bring forth someone else for whom the package also did not work!

I mentioned before I bought a $500.00 USD Eagle license, how do you want me to prove ? Let me know and I will.

David.

[DavidDLC]

Is this enough ?

If you still think this is an edited image or I got the license by cracking the application, let me know, I can provide you with a copy of the invoice maybe ?

Well the license number is there, you can contact Eagle and prove that I bought it.

Now that I proved to you, I expect you to be more cautious with your comments.

And learn the lesson: Is better to have 10 happy customers than 1 upset customer.

Be honest with the information you provide and have a good customer service, believe in your customers. If I would have my refund, today I would be posting: "They have a great customer service" what a difference !


David.

[DavidDLC]

Very Unfortunate ,
    One PCB Software designer is himself is on the forum instead of appreciating what he has he is being grilled by three or four people of the forum

Note :  Again and again its happening ,You People do not like his software please forget and and do not comment  .

He would not have this comments from me, I was honest with him that his software didn't work on my computer, I followed all his recommendations ( even format the HDD ) and still didn't work, so I asked for a refund and he didn't do it.

Put on my side as a customer, I paid for the product it never worked, so my money was robbed.

David


OMG!!! DUDE!!! LET IT GO!!!!

... ok I am going to say it even though I know it must be a thought in at least someone else's mine.  It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the software did not run on your machine!! Unless you were not running a true Microsoft Window OS.  Can you bring one other person to this forum that could corroborate your story?!?  In other word do you know of ANY other single person who can verify that Autotrax or DEX did not work on their system?!!??

I would bet that you could not.  Your tenacity to this TRIVIAL issue is quite ABSURD!!!  You really are just SPAMMING THIS FORUM!!!!  STOP IT!!!

As far as I am concerned you are just someone who is looking for something for free.  It probably worked fine and you just did not want to pay for it!!  To prove me wrong on this, can you provide information as to any PCB/EDA package for which you have actually paid for a license and still own the license?

I don't mind people giving their experiences and I don't even mind when people trash others but D**N  reading the same post over and over is just OLD!! AND AGREVATING!!!  DUDE GET A LIFE!!  If $99 means that much to you I suggest you get some more education, particularly an engineering degree and get you a better job!!

You claim to be a professional.

Well this is a very non-professional way to deal with a problem:
- Not believing in customers.
- Using non-professional expresions: OMG!!! DUDE!!! LET IT GO!!!! DUDE GET A LIFE!!
- Using caps on a forum ( Which means you are screaming ).
- Posting information without knowledge about a person: I suggest you get some more education, particularly an engineering degree and get you a better job!!

Is this what people is going to expect from Customer Service from AutoTRAX ? Maybe because I already had that kind of bad experience.

You guys better change the way you are doing business.

David.

[AlfBaz]

You claim to be a professional.
...
I suggest you get some more education, particularly an engineering degree and get you a better job!!

If you had any of these traits, you wouldn't have spent $100 on a pcb package to begin with, what makes this even sillier is you have the ability to d/l a trial version...

I feel this whole thread has been a missed opportunity. We have the author of an interesting product pop in for a chat about his software efforts and rather than discuss avenues for improvement or ideas for direction of the software, as was attempted by some, instead we put him into a defensive stance because a few users don't understand PC and OS requirements to run particular software...

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

The licensing systems sounds fairly straight forward. What's the problem?

Alternatively you could all use some open source design package, such as gEDA or Kicad. Then you could improve it, and change it as we want to.
Then you won't have to worry about licence fees, serial numbers, support contracts, getting approval for purchase, number of seats, expiry dates etc.

[mstevens]

Is this enough ?

Now that I proved to you, I expect you to be more cautious with your comments.

David.

Nope, my comments were meant to antagonize the HELL out of you just as you are doing to the rest of us!!!!! So as long as you keep stating that you got ripped off I am going to continue to voice my opinion about how petty a person you are.  You lack honor which is quite clear, generally those who have no honor also lack integrity, hence my last comments.  I REALLY DON'T GIVE A FRACK ABOUT HOW YOU GOT RIPPED OFF!! I would bet no one else here does either, and this is not to defend Ilija but rather to get you to QUIT SPAMMING THIS AND OTHER FORUMS!!!  Oh I failed to mention I have a Black Belt in Taekwondo so I know and understand exactly what honor and integrity mean!!!

I guess your hope is that if you scream loud enough you will get your $99 back!!! <laugh> You are a joke.  I've lot tens of thousands if not more on fail endeavors that did not work out and I am still doing quite well; because you know why... I don't spend ALL OF MY WAKING TIME harping on it... I move on and find other ways to make money ... or it not even about the money I just don't want to die thinking about that dime I misplace when I was 5 years old.

AGAIN DUDE GET A LIFE!!