Opinions - AutoTRAX Design Express 2020

[c4757p]

Oh I failed to mention I have a Black Belt in Taekwondo so I know and understand exactly what honor and integrity mean!!!

    

[mstevens]

You claim to be a professional.

Well this is a very non-professional way to deal with a problem:
- Not believing in customers.
- Using non-professional expresions: OMG!!! DUDE!!! LET IT GO!!!! DUDE GET A LIFE!!
- Using caps on a forum ( Which means you are screaming ).
- Posting information without knowledge about a person: I suggest you get some more education, particularly an engineering degree and get you a better job!!

Is this what people is going to expect from Customer Service from AutoTRAX ? Maybe because I already had that kind of bad experience.

You guys better change the way you are doing business.

David.

I am in no way affiliated with www.kov.com, Ilija, Autotrax or DEX other than being a paid user of the software.  For full disclosure I also own licenses to and use (for Engineering):
 -TINA -- www.tina.com
 -SuperSpice  -- www.anasoft.co.uk
 -Altium Designer -- live.altium.com
 -LTSpice  -- www.linear.com/ltspice
 -Circuit Maker 2000 www.altium.com
 -Mathcad -- www.ptc.com
 -Creo Parametric -- www.ptc.com
 -Alibre Design -- www.alibre.com
 
So please don't lump me in with the vendor!!! I am just a guy who likes to read through the forums and learn. But you SPAM impedes that process.

I am sure I could give you a long list of transactions where they did not pan out to my liking but guess what I moved on with my life!! You know what is the funny thing about... ...my wife says that I hang on to thing and don't "let go."  Geez... if I have been aggravating her only half as much as you are aggravating me with this BS I owe here a sincere apology!

I know one thing though for every post you make about this... I am going to post at least once, maybe more that you are a petty person who need some education, enlightenment, and A LIFE!!!

As for the customer issue... just as in life no vendor will please 100% of their customers 100% of the time.  As one who has owned more than one business my advice to business people is to:

  1. Be honest with everyone
  2. Try to always do the right thing.
  3. Do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to try to DO THE THINGS YOU SAY YOU ARE GOING TO DO!
  4. Don't buy into that BS that the customer is ALWAY RIGHT!!
  5. Succinctly, have some honor and integrity ...loyalty is also a must.

Uhhhhmmmm Can someone find this guy A LIFE!!!  He seems to have some trouble doing so.

[c4757p]

mstevens, just so you know - whether or not you have a valid point, you kind of sound like a nut, and it's probably making people ignore you and not actually read your valid point. You have an air of "Fetch me my meds, I'm starting to hyperventilate".

[mstevens]

mstevens, just so you know - whether or not you have a valid point, you kind of sound like a nut, and it's probably making people ignore you and not actually read your valid point. You have an air of "Fetch me my meds, I'm starting to hyperventilate".

Yeah that is pretty much it.  Because what I really want to say to him is that I DON'T GIVE A SH** ABOUT HIS 99 FRACKING DOLLARS!!! I have read more than one too many posts about it!!!  I really don't care if the rest of the world ignores me, they are not my intended target, DavidDLC is.  And I want him to understand that he is SPAMMING this forum with BS that no one wants to hear about!!! Ok can I get a show of hands of anyone that wants to hear his story more than one time??? Anyone? Anyone?!!!!??? just respond with a simple "me"... anyone???

I hate being a jerk. It really is not my nature but I am more than capable when necessary!

Anyone???!!!???

[c4757p]

Er... can't you just ignore his posts if they bother you?

[Mechatrommer]

I feel this whole thread has been a missed opportunity.

if you really follow the thread, you should see something doesnt add up. "denial of marketing lip service? you dont have to do a thing everything's automatic", "change your graphic card", "format your HDD" etc. i dont expect these kind of replies from a programmer dated from 1984 (see *1). i wish i could make this dude a friend, but to make it short... i kinda pissed off, "friendly speaking"

We have the author of an interesting product pop in for a chat about his software efforts and rather than discuss avenues for improvement or ideas for direction of the software, as was attempted by some,

instead of admitting to improve it or defer the replies, he asked us to buy new card, format our system and try to make complex stuff with it on our own. he didnt provide any example required or helpfull links. he didnt mention the limitation clearly (free version). no, i'm not going to waste my time do a complex stuff with it for the reason i've mentioned above, and obscure stuffs (limit) that i'm going to discover along the way. and he opted to stand face to face with novarm44 et al. wise! wait until Mr Nick Martin is around.

instead we put him into a defensive stance because...

is it wrong to bow and "yes sire i'm going to improve that" or simply just "shut up"?

a few users don't understand PC and OS requirements to run particular software...

so how are we going to understand PC? is it not enough playing with it worth of 10+ years 8 hours daily average? OS requirement? what? its stated somewhere there, what else? should we script something? the target users are a bunch of ee designer, not programmers try to make a program works.

Now, a word of friendly advice: ... it's another 'arduino-class' device routed by baboons..."

now thats what i call "unfriendly", i tried to make as friendly as i can when i tried to re-route the existing example (arduino), i felt like a "baboon", its like oh F, i'm going to have a headache with this. or maybe i dont know the setting i'm overwhelmed with the fancy foobars. a friendly advice to ilija for "software improvement", try to make the "routing style" by default similar to diptrace (snap only to 0,45,90 degree) its alot painless, esp on decently complex circuit.

*1: http://www.kov.com/AboutUs/

"DEX 2020 (AutoTRAX Software) is a leading software design company specializing in the development of highly interactive 2D and 3D computer graphics program.
Since its formation back in June 1984 AutoTRAX Software has developed several software packages for many clients including Silicon Graphics, Solid Works and Spatial Technology."

Silicon Graphics? dude get Real! no offense. i used many CAD graphics softwares, for "leading design level" the performances are far away from this particular DEX app. dont brag where it doesnt belong.

[mstevens]

Er... can't you just ignore his posts if they bother you?

No. That's sorta the definition of SPAM it is supposed to be obnoxious and in your face! It is sent out to invoke a response, clearly what DavidDLC intends with his posts on the subject matter.  I refrain from saying what I really want to say; I deserve come credit for being self constrained.

Honestly though you are right and in 99% of the cases I would, guess this case just met my 1% criteria.  Sorry.

[c4757p]

...but it's not "sent out". It's just here on a forum for you to click on and read if you want to. Don't click.

And sure, I'll give you some credit for self-restraint - I mean, you didn't go on a murder spree or anything 

[free_electron]

For the record : my remark is aimed at the demo board shown , not the software. I have no gripe with the software. I am not going to comment on the software. I have never used it , probably never will as i have a tool that fits my needs perfectly.

My comment is that, as a pcb tool vendor you want to show off your product. And that's done by showing a fully routed board with some complexity in it.

That 'arduino community' class example reflects bad on the product trying to be sold.
Now, there's nothing wrong with the arduino itself . With 'arduino community' i label a category of boards that were slapped together by amateurs that have no clue how to design or layout or route a board. Just because they can make a led blink they think all pf a sudden to be super electronic guru's. they need to grab an arduino because taking an atmel chip and adding a crystal , 2 caps and an ftdi chip with some resistors is already way above their head...  It' like a little kid putting game cards between the spokes of the wheels and pretends he's a race car driver...

If you're trying to sell racecars you wouldn't be caught dead using the kids bycicle as a prime example of what you can do....

[DavidDLC]

mstevens, just so you know - whether or not you have a valid point, you kind of sound like a nut, and it's probably making people ignore you and not actually read your valid point. You have an air of "Fetch me my meds, I'm starting to hyperventilate".

Yeah that is pretty much it.  Because what I really want to say to him is that I DON'T GIVE A SH** ABOUT HIS 99 FRACKING DOLLARS!!! I have read more than one too many posts about it!!!  I really don't care if the rest of the world ignores me, they are not my intended target, DavidDLC is.  And I want him to understand that he is SPAMMING this forum with BS that no one wants to hear about!!! Ok can I get a show of hands of anyone that wants to hear his story more than one time??? Anyone? Anyone?!!!!??? just respond with a simple "me"... anyone???

I hate being a jerk. It really is not my nature but I am more than capable when necessary!

Anyone???!!!???

I have post several times before: It's not about the money. Just to make people aware of possible situations they may have.

Some lessons for you:

Life in a forum is easy, you subscribe to a forum and be aware that you will find comments that you like and you will find comments that bother you, it is up to you how to deal with the ones that bother you. Are you going to attack every comment that you don't like ? Good luck with that. I'm not the first one and I'm not the last one to give negative feedback about a bad experience. This is a free forum for everybody to comment his opinions if you follow the rules that Dave has put ( Some times we forget about them ), people already gave you some good advice, if you do not like what you read, ignore it. That is what I'm going to do with your posts, so if you receive no answer from me, you know why.

AutoTRAX as a vendor should be aware that if they do not have a good customer service they will expect negative feedback, even Dave does not sell a product with his is free videos on Youtube and he receives positive and negative feedback. When I buy stuff, let's say Amazon, I go and read the feedback on the product/service, I read the positives and the negatives. I have read sh!t about a product, very offensive, but I don't take that to make the decision to purchase it or not, I make a balance, if a product has considerable more positives than negatives that will affect my decision to purchase it or not.
So what AutoTRAX should do is to work hard to balance the comments about his product to the positive feedback.

I will not change my mind based on any comments you may put. I have not and I will not feel offended of any of your personal comments you have made. This is a forum to comment about electronic topics and that is what most of the people do here.

David.

[mstevens]

I have post several times before: It's not about the money. Just to make people aware of possible situations they may have.

Obviously it is.  In a message this morning you remarked this morning:

      "If I would have my refund, today I would be posting: "They have a great customer service" what a difference !

So basically it IS about the money for you!!  I knew that was the issue and you have just obfuscated it!! But I really don't care that you did I only care that you have stated it MORE THAN ONCE OR EVEN TWICE!!!

Some lessons for you:

Life in a forum is easy,

First, someone who does not have a life is not going to teach me anything!

Second, I owned an operated several BBSes in the past including a 12 line MajorBBS and later became a Worldgroup system.  Thus I own 2 x 256 count licenses and development kits for that software/platform as well.  So I'm quite familiar with how forums work; I did them long before the Internet was available for public use.  I'm not into bragging and/or boasting I am just making those reading this aware that I have the essential background to be speaking to the issues to which I respond.

So NO DUDE YOU'RE NOT GOING GIVE ME ANY LESSONS!  I would gladly welcome your silence or input on a topic with which you have familiarity... say the search for a life...

When I buy stuff, let's say Amazon, I go and read the feedback on the product/service, I read the positives and the negatives. I have read sh!t about a product, very offensive, but I don't take that to make the decision to purchase it or not, I make a balance, if a product has considerable more positives than negatives that will affect my decision to purchase it or not.

On the Amazon site, do you find any reviews, negative or positive that are posted 3, 4, 5 time or more... the same exact review. Or do you see the same review posting any review more than once?!!?? ....Ummmm right you just proved my point!!!!  I laugh at people's intelligence at times!!

I will not change my mind based on any comments you may put. I have not and I will not feel offended of any of your personal comments you have made. This is a forum to comment about electronic topics and that is what most of the people do here.

David.

Please point to any post where I ask that you change your mind.  I want you to voice you opinion, if anyone has questions, let them ask and then you clarify, and then you should STFU!!  I don't care to hear you harp on the issue!! Uhhmmm based on my early call for anyone that would... at this point it does not seem as if anyone else does either!!!

Here is a real lesson, (I generally don't give them as I believe everyone learns in time)...

Sometime things are just outside of your control, and no amount of crying, pouting, begging or pleading will not change things.  Ponder this in your pursuit of a REAL LIFE!!

Anyone...!!!???  Anyone?? ...hmmm

[ElektroQuark]

Can we KiCAD users taste that better product too for free?

[DavidDLC]

Hi

I have decided to let all you Diptrace users with a paid license have a free full version of AutoTRAX DEX 2020.
Just go to http://www.dex2020.com/Diptrace

I have not forgotten you Eagle users. Yes you can get a free have a free full version of AutoTRAX DEX 2020.
Just go to http://www.dex2020.com/Eagle

Why am I doing this; well to show you a better product. ‘The proof of the pudding is in the eating’ so give it a try.
What have you got to lose?

Of course this post will be followed by the usual bitching and complaints. 

Enjoy
Iliya Kovac

No worries Ilija, for the good of the forum I will not give a feedback anymore.

Please try to provide a good customer experience to anyone that may want to use your application.

David.

[mstevens]

No worries Ilija, for the good of the forum I will not give a feedback anymore.

Please try to provide a good customer experience to anyone that may want to use your application.

David.

{In the SE corner of the room you see a figure that is similar in height and weight to mstevens bowing to DavidDLC}

Thanks David

[EEVblog]

MODERATOR NOTE:
mstevens has received a warning for his personal attacks in this thread.
This sort of stuff is not wanted here.

Dave.

[mstevens]

I would like to apologize to all that endured my posts in this thread.  I got somewhat carried away and was wrong for the "personal attacks" on DavidDLC.  I meant no disrespect to David or anyone else in this community.  I am sorry. 

David, although I sent you a PM ealier I felt it necessary to make a public apology to you!

Folks, thanks for you patients with me.

[DavidDLC]

No problem, as I mentioned to you, sometimes we put to so much passion here that this type of things happen.

Everything is Ok on my side.

David.

[ElektroQuark]

Can we KiCAD users taste that better product too for free?

It seems we can't.

[DerekG]

I have decided to let all you Diptrace users with a paid license have a free full version of AutoTRAX DEX 2020.
Just go to http://www.dex2020.com/Diptrace
I have not forgotten you Eagle users. Yes you can get a free have a free full version of AutoTRAX DEX 2020.
Just go to http://www.dex2020.com/Eagle

Interesting. I note the two links given above by Iliya Kovac (the Developer & Programmer of Autotrax DEX 2020 no longer work (they are about a year old).

I note that Iliya Kovac has deleted his membership from this forum.

I also note that the former mentioned official Yahoo Forum no longer exists.

I have searched for another Autotrax DEX forum without success.

The software is actually quite nice for Schematic & PCB design under $300 (it is actually US$49), however it does have some bugs in it that need working on.

I have sent two requests to Iliya Kovac regarding these (one via his website & one directly to his in-box), however I have not had any replies.

I'm not asking other EEV Blog members if they like or dislike the software (this has been previously thrashed to death in this thread), however I am interested if someone knows of/has located a discussion forum for Autotrax DEX 2020 that is active.

Thanks.

[DerekG]

I have sent two requests to Iliya Kovac regarding these (one via his website & one directly to his in-box), however I have not had any replies.

Following on from my post above, I unfortunately have to report that there is no support forthcoming from AutoTrax DEX 2020. Iliya Kovac (the single guy who developed AutoTRAX DEX 2020) has failed to respond to a bug I reported in the ribbon menu. I firstly submitted this via his web submission page (6 weeks ago), then again via email (4 weeks ago).

I have searched for his members forum, but the old Yahoo forum has been deleted & the one that Google turns up in its cache on the KOV website, no longer exists.

I see that Iliya Kovac is still working on his program. You can see the listed bug reports & new features here http://kov.com/DownloadFiles/whatsnew.pdf

Given that the "bug fixes" are almost daily, I suspect that Iliya works on a bug fix, implements it but does not properly check that the updated code has not affected other code in the AutoTRAX program.

I guess, when you sell a program for US$49 you can't afford to employ extra staff, yet you don't have enough time yourself to provide all the support that is required to respond to your customers.

The program used to sell for US$299, but (the limited) versions of DipTrace & Proteus along with the free PCB design programs such as Eagle, KiCAD & Design Spark probably meant that Iliya could not sell enough licenses to make a living.

Without customer support & without requested bug fixes, there is little point in investing one's time to learn a program such as AutoTRAX DEX 2020.

[nctnico]

Maybe 'your' bug isn't severe enough or it may not even a bug at all. When developing software there are always bugs which don't get fixed because they are not very serious.

[DerekG]

When developing software there are always bugs which don't get fixed because they are not very serious.

Yes, you are correct, but this does not excuse NO support by the AutoTRAX DEX 2020 developers.

Let's say someone found a serious bug. Would there be any forthcoming support or would there simply be silence (as has been my case ............. for more than 6 weeks now)?

[Mechatrommer]

i believe minor bug is not really the issue. i believe the major bug is that dex2020 is somewhat a more advanced MSPaint, the last time i tried it. and then came the major release or bug fix or somesort into my inbox, i keen to re-check, what he linked was a video... to my surprise he put much effort into making it to a more advanced MSPaint3D again ie extending 3D render to capable cartoon fartbook selfie type outlined charcoaled board render. if you ask me between $50 dex and $500 diptrace, i'll work hard and get the $500 diptrace rather than donating $50 into the air.

[Cobra]

Yes, I can understand your thoughts on this software.
I have just finished a 10 month stint with Autotrax DEX2020 In those ten months I have had to download over 50 updates to install! Even after all that, the software still does not work very well at all. I produced a project that I intended to send to my CNC machine - I never sent it! I just could not trust Dex2020. The forum is almost exclusively questions about why this or that in Dex2020 does no seem to work. I have now started to use TARGET 3001 from a German Company. I had never used it before,but in one weekend I had completed a large project including 3D parts.
I could not do that with Dex2020. The cost of Dex2020, if you take into consideration the fact that you have to pay a fee every year for updates (which means that if you don't pay for the updates you cannot fix any of the many problems) is more costly than my version of TARGET 3001.
A piece of software so complex without sufficient 'support' is a problem to say the least - and Dex2020 support is poor!
This Dex2020 is not fit for purpose - it just does not work well enough even for hobby projects!

[Mechatrommer]

isnt altium is like that? and this dex2020 only copycatting it at fraction of price? paying altium for $9K plus (including) 1 year maintenance? if unlucky, the bugs will never be fully fixed by the end of the year, and then you have to continue pay subscription for the fix, otherwise you'll be left with "still buggy" software without any support.