Opinions - AutoTRAX Design Express 2020

[LarryR]

I too have had the same issue of no ackowledgement of a bug - in this case, a serious one.
In fact, Iliya won't even answer simple questions about how to invoke part of the application - the CNC viewer (Anyone know how? )

The bug I found has to do with allocation and de-allocation of system memory.
If you want to see the bug, start up MS task manager while DEX is tunning and highlite DEX. Look at how much memory it takes up.
Now, do some PCB manipulation - memory usage increases (especialy with 3D manipulation)
Keep doing editing, undo, re-do, normal stuff. Memory keeps increasing.
In my case, my PC ran out of memory (DEX had 2.3GB!!) and DEX crashed.
However, if you minimize the DEX window, memory goes  very low.
Maximize the window and look - you've just reclaimed (de-allocated) a pile of memory!!

I sent Iliya the exact steps on how to replicate this issue - nothing heard back.
I asked what sort of support users should expect to get - nothing heard back.
I entered the previous support question on his Autotrax forum - it never appeared so I assume he censors stuff like this.
I definately won't be renewing and will instead have a look at KiCad.
At least there is an active KiCad forum there where users offer help.

Pity

BTW - I used to administer Mentor Graphics ECAD waaaay back in the 80's (when a SW License and workstation were $150K each).

[DerekG]

I sent Iliya the exact steps on how to replicate this issue - nothing heard back.

I asked what sort of support users should expect to get - nothing heard back.

I entered the previous support question on his Autotrax forum - it never appeared so I assume he censors stuff like

I never heard anything back from Iliya either (web submission 8 weeks ago & emailed support 6 weeks ago).

I am interested in where you found his forum. I even joined Yahoo to find out that his forum could no longer be found.

Please share the link.

[LarryR]

You get to his forum using the FORUM button in the HELP menu of AutoTRAX.
It sends you here:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/autotrax/info

[DerekG]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/autotrax/info

Many thanks. I have just applied to join the group.

[pinchip]

I have only positive things to say about autotrax dex. I am total newbie, but I have still managed to made my first schematics and PCB with it and even ordered 10 pcs. of those. I think it is easy and intuitive to use. I even managed to create two new parts with it. In addition to dex I have tried Kicad and Eagle. For me dex wins hands down

[DerekG]

I have only positive things to say about autotrax dex. I am total newbie

That's great to hear. Unfortunately the developer (Iliya Kovac) appears to ignore support questions.

I'm sure you found something in AutoTRAX DEX 2020 that could be improved. Why don't you send Iliya a support email to see if you ever get a reply.

I sent him two requests (by standard email & via his web submission page - you can find my post in the previous page of this thread) & 3 months later still have no reply.

Please let us know how you go.

[pinchip]

That's great to hear. Unfortunately the developer (Iliya Kovac) appears to ignore support questions.

I'm sure you found something in AutoTRAX DEX 2020 that could be improved. Why don't you send Iliya a support email to see if you ever get a reply.

I haven't found anything to be improved yet, as said I am newbie still with these. However yesterday there was some support request in Dex yahoo group from some other member, after 50 minutes Iliya had answered to that question. I think that is quite fast reply.

[ElektroQuark]

Quote from: pinchip on Today at 05:36:51 PM

I think that is quite fast reply.






And I think you are somehow "biased".

[Wilksey]

I would have to agree with EdoNork about "biasing".

I downloaded this AutoTrax program, used it for about 5 minutes and removed it from my system, the interface is very over the top!

I would rather use Kicad or Eagle than AutoTrax personally.

[DerekG]

I downloaded this AutoTrax program, used it for about 5 minutes and removed it from my system ...

AutoTRAX DEX 2020 actually does not uninstall very well at all. Take a look in your Windows Registries now & you will find entries left all over the place.

[Wilksey]

Hi DerekG,

Hah, wonderful, good job I installed it under a VM!

One of the reasons I download things into the VM is for that purpose, if the image crashes I just copy over a new one and i've lost about 20 seconds rather than 20 hours getting my system back to how it was.

Bad software!

[pinchip]

And I think you are somehow "biased".

You can think or not think whatever you want. I was just telling my experience about software. I understand that some people might disagree and some agree. We all have our different needs and different ways of seeing things. That does not necessarily mean IMHO that anyone who does not think same way than you are "biased", does it?

[EEVblog]

isnt altium is like that?

Yep.
It was worse at one point. There was one year where people nothing for their yearly maintenance fee.

[Iliya]

AutoTRAX DEX does not add any registry entries.

All config settings are saved as XML (human readable) text files in
C:\Users\XXXX\AppData\Roaming\AutoTRAX Software\DEX
C:\Users\XXXX\AppData\Local\AutoTRAX Software\DEX

where XXX is your user name (Windows).

[IQ955]

Hello,

I'm considering to buy Autotrax DEX, but i have some doubts.
Could somebody help me to decide and answer some questions below:

1. Is the demo version EXACTLY the same as the licensed one,
or the license "opens" some more possibilities?

2. I've tried many times to launch the simulating of circuits both with my sketches
and attached examples - without effects. Finally I've copied VERY CAREFULLY
this simple circuit from manual (chapter: "Always Add a Ground").
So, I've ADDED a Ground and tried even all these three grounds available - flop as well.
Always only: "No ground node present".

Summing:
• Could somebody send me simplest but tested and sure working example of simulation?
(succesfully simulated circuit, step-by step way how to launch even simplest simulation)?
• Have somebody seen this simulating working? There is no example of it on the homepage.

3. Are these instruments (generator, multimeter etc.) just implemented, or there are
only beautiful pictures? I can't launch it.

4. In general - which functions are already implemented in licensed version? All? Some?

Regards, and many thanks in advance for any hint and help...

Marek.

[DerekG]

If you look back a page or two in this forum you will see there is a reference to the AutoTRAX DEX 2020 support forum on Yahoo. I would suggest you log your questions there.

I did not receive any replies to my support requests via the AutoTRAX website or via email, but perhaps you will have more success.

The developer (Iliya Kovac) posted just above, so you can message him direct through this blog site.

[IQ955]

Hello Derek,

Thanks for quick reply.
My problems were partially "self-solved" :-)
After automatic upgrade - simulation goes normally.
Other minor things I'll try to clear on this Yahoo forum.

Marek.

[DerekG]

Other minor things I'll try to clear on this Yahoo forum.

Please let us know how the Yahoo Forum goes & also let us know when you get your first lot of pcbs back as this is the final test that everything went well.

[DerekG]

Other minor things I'll try to clear on this Yahoo forum.

It has been 10 days now. Did you get any support from the AutoTRAX DEX 2020 Yahoo Forum?

[Mi_ka]

(Hi to all - 1st post  )

I came across Autotrax DEX the last few days after looking around for a tool of this caliber.
Last time I used a Capture/PCB program was 10+ years ago when I designed a pre-MP3 player Smartmedia memory (remember these?) music loop player for PBX telephone on-hold use.
So I remember just a few things from the Protel 99SE SCH+PCB suite and that's all - been wire wrapping ever since on a handful of PIC designs.
The need to have a proper SCH+PCB program just arose again and off I go searching the web for the likes of gEDA/KiCAD/Diptrace/Eagle/Target etc etc until my head is spinning by the quantity of forum reading I have done the last few days... A behemoth of the size Protel's offspring Altium Designer etc is not only out of my $$ reach but is also too much for the use I intend to do.

So I download and run DEX for a few minutes and the UI looks impressively self-explanatory vs the other few minutes tests I did of other similar abilities programs.
I really like the emphasis it gives to this self-explanatory approach since I intend to use whatever program I get into a handful of times a year so I will always be forgetting how it works and need to relearn it over and over again.
However I will not go for it.
Why?
From the web-searching I have done on it it seems that it is an one-man-show engineered product of Mr. Iliya Kovac.
Even if the developer Mr. Kovac is of super human abilities, there is no way to properly go through all stages a proper modern software suite demands. He must be going after bugs (his or of the underlaying environment software development tools) all the time so no way to provide proper user support or manage to have it all fixed up in time.
Modern software development goes through team work of mobile and active persons willing to listen to feedback.
So it seems I shall be going the route of the only company I found reporting that they have plans for a native Macinstosh port of their software  and steer clear of impressive but married-to-retailers solutions (also I would love going the Kicad/gEDA way but they still seem lacking a bit in polishing, though pretty capable).
Which is a shame since I really liked the potential I saw in the DEX approach...

[DerekG]

However I will not go for it.
Why?
Even if the developer Mr. Kovac is of super human abilities, there is no way to properly go through all stages a proper modern software suite demands. He must be going after bugs (his or of the underlaying environment software development tools) all the time so no way to provide proper user support or manage to have it all fixed up in time.
Which is a shame since I really liked the potential I saw in the DEX approach...

Yes, I fully agree. I liked the DEX 2020 software very much but it has many bugs that just never seem to get fixed. There is generally no feedback to support questions either. A shame really.

What people often forget is that "you & I" will be investing much of our time in learning the pcb design software. And you only want to go through that process once!

I use both Altium & DipTrace for work. I have also used Proteus (from the UK) which I like the most. The pin limited versions are pretty cheap too. Another nice package I have fiddled around with is Target 3001 from Germany. Also pretty inexpensive for the pin limited versions.

Anyway, just a few pointers that may interest you.

[Mechatrommer]

i dont have problem with one man show, i have problem with people (even many people) who are clueless at the workflow and try to fix and concentrate hard on the things that are not important in the workflow. as has been discussed, besides DEX, Altium is also one of them with they concentration on "fpga whatever" thing and "not hobbiest car expensive" market.

the really important part is a program that does the job, and does it well and bugless. i'm with many others too infact some are still using software from Win3.11 era today, why? because it is working and works very well, still, even though there is no support (even no company) anymore. why still need support for a perfectly working software?

if you really care about "one man" or "not one man" show "married to whom" guys, then you should go and pay for Altium (or the other names such as Cadence et al etc). it is very well "married" to the market and has very many men (clueless men). you'll be excited by their "supportive" support of an "otherwise" a perfectly working software.

[Mi_ka]

What people often forget is that "you & I" will be investing much of our time in learning the pcb design software. And you only want to go through that process once!

After 10 years away from EDA programs I expected them to have moved into the modern "iStuff age" at last. So very NOT so for the SCH-PCB part... 
The only impressive new feature I see in comparison to the Protel99SE is the properly functioning 3D mechanical view. All else seem to be minor improvement of last century stuff.
It seems that virtually ALL makers  of SCH+PCB programs think that you will be using their suites much of your living time so you will be getting to know their "productivity oriented" quirks and mentality at some point so no problem not taking the hassle to think out of that box.
This different approach is what I found intriguing with DEX until I realized that most people complain about lack of proper support that leaves them stranded. After looking more into it I came to the conclusion that DEX is different but not enough to really make the difference.
If childish looking software like Fritzling improves enough (improving all the time) it could mean big trouble for much of the EDA establishment as is today if they do not move into the iStuff age, me thinks. Why? Remember how "industry experts" were sure the iPhone and iPad are no serious devices and were going to fail miserably? I see a similar situation in the low-mid end in the EDA world. Fortunately for most of them, no "iEDASuite" in the horizon, at least till now...

i have problem with people (even many people) who are clueless at the workflow and try to fix and concentrate hard on the things that are not important in the workflow.

I thought the same about the Macintosh platform for 15 years until I acquired the old machine of my wife when I got her a new Macbook. Once I was hooked and said "OMG how many wasted years on Windows" I now find it infuriating that practically no SCH+PCB program is made for OSX (not counting half-baked WINE solutions).
I would just love a tethered iPad to an iEDA suite to use as a touch board to place/rotate/pan-zoom stuff selected in the Mac's monitor and even do work while on the move.
Why no one has gone that direction yet?

It seems that the EDA world is really conservative which is in dire contrast to the modern life changing products it materializes into production lines around the globe for everyone's daily use. 

[DerekG]

I now find it infuriating that practically no SCH+PCB program is made for OSX (not counting half-baked WINE solutions).

Quite right. One of the reasons I've remained a Windows user.

Many people have found that Altium & DipTrace runs fine under VMware or Parallels on a Mac.

http://www.andrewhazelden.com/blog/2010/11/diptrace-on-mac-os-x/

I'm running DipTrace on my iMac i5 8gb. Under VMware fusion 4. Works great and is faster then my windows machine. Yes you need a copy of Windows, but you need windows anyway on a mac if you're doing electronics  design, too much stuff out there needs it. I use unity mode and it's just like a Mac app.

The mac version of dip trace uses Wine, forget that wine is sloooow.

[Mi_ka]

Thanks!

Since this is the DEX' thread I would really like to see what Mr. Kovac or other affiliated person thinks on my mind-burp above but I suppose it is a way looooooong shot to ever happen