Upverter vs. Circuit Maker

[asg32000]

Has anyone used Upverter, Circuit Maker (by Altium) or both?  I'm wondering what the notable differences are between these free, browser-based EDA packages are.  Further, I'd like to know how similar Circuit Maker is to Altium Designer, if anyone's used both.

Thanks!

[ehughes]

I have used both.   Bias warning:  I use Altium (the full version) daily but do like many other PCB tools.   

1.) Upverter is a brower based application and works on files in the cloud (I.E. google docs).  At the time I evaluated the product,  you need a persistent internet connection and it needs to be *fast*.  I did a board design evaluation and it is extremely slow for anything non-trivial.   Some browsers did a better job than others.   The ability to cross platform is attractive but that is much lower of my list of needs.   Performance and capabilities are my biggest requirements.

2.)  CircuitMaker is not browser based.  CircuitMaker runs locally on the machine and works on locally cached files.   Project files are version controlled (SVN backbone) to the cloud.   CM is essentially the Altium backend with a simpler GUI and the web/community backbone.  It literally uses the same back-end .dlls, etc.    It just has a simpler GUI with some of the advanced features (rigid-flex, etc) taken out.    There are a few things I miss about the full version but still has more features than any other free tool.   Internet connection is required to sign in to start and then when you need to commit.     You otherwise are working locally so it is a hybrid of sorts.

The PCB editor is light years better in CM (push-shove, differential pair routing, real 3d, etc.).     Upverter's PCB editor is similar to EAGLE (about 15 years behind everyone else) but with a better UI and a handful of extra features.  It is still primitive though.   

If you like the portability of a browser based app,  Upverter is nice.   The pricing of it is horrific for the limited capabilities of the tool though.   If actually had to purchase it, you might as well buy a real tool (Altium, Orcad, Diptrace, etc). 

The Schematic editor in CM allows for true hierarchical design.  When I evaluated Upverter,  it could not but may have since changed.  (This is a big one for me!)

Both tools have risk.   Upverter has yet to show a profitable model and has no other revenue stream and certainly could go away.   CM is new but Altium as a company has a very large ($80mil) yearly revenue stream from their other products.   It could always be pulled but they have invested quite a bit in it over the past 1.5 years and is starting to really shape up.  The way CM is compiled makes it easy for them to pull in new features without maintaining a 100% separate product.

Bottom line:    I have found the only way to evaluate a tool is to spend at least one non-trivial board design with it.   That usually will narrow down your choices.  Pick something and give both a try.    Chances are you will find things you don't like about either but it will give you a taste.

[asg32000]

Wow - thanks for the great break-down!  I'll definitely give both a try.  The only reason I wouldn't just go with CircuitMaker right away is the fact that when you check in your revisions, it gets published publicly.  I might not want to use this for a public design (e.g. if I'm working on a small start-up).  Could I theoretically just never check in my designs?  This was a topic of discussion in a previous thread (back in spring of 2015) that Dave was chiming in on.

[ehughes]

Yes,  CM is definitely made for open hardware.  I believe you get 1 or 2 private "sandbox" projects.       If your target is for a small startup, I would really consider risk if you want to use a non-free tool.     With CM,  you get files that can be imported into Altium Full version.     So, if CM went "away" you could keep your stuff.    Upverter is such a new concept it would seem very risky to me.  I would honestly go for a standard "offline" tool (Altium, Diptrace, etc) that has been around for awhile if it was money making venture and you want your files secret.     I would consider though if hiding your design files is necessary for your business.   The CAD data is only about 5% of a product.....   Your customers will love you more if you allow them to modify it :-)

FYI:   You need pay for upverter if it is non-commericial!    So, if startup is your route,  plan on $1200 a year.   Also, read the fine print.   You can only get gerber files if the project is open source.

There is also KiCad if you want free.  It is extremely rough around the edges IMHO but it only costs you your time to learn it. 

[xjordanx]

FYI

https://circuitmaker.com/blog/have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too

CM and Upverter are merging. Upverter has unlimited free designs as of the acquisition by Altium.

[ahbushnell]

If you want a commercial friendly CM, you can try circuit studio. A $3k stripped down version of $8k AD. No flex-rigid design, no xsignal, no ergonomic shortkeys, no advanced routing tools, no FPGA, but almost 2/3 cheaper.

Circuit Studio was 3k$.  It's now 1k$ unless you have Eagle then it's 500$ (in the US).  I have been using it and like it.   

[hc11hacker]

CircuitMaker and Upverter are completely different beasts. CircuitMaker is basically Altium lite (installed as a desktop application), and Upverter is a true cloud-based tool (which I'm not a fan of...)