Author Topic: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind  (Read 4936 times)

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Offline 5ky

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Figured being into electronics and having a solar array on your own home, you'd be pissed about this.  Perhaps a good topic for a blab?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27908-australian-government-sets-up-renewable-energy-body-to-fail/
 

Offline JohnMoosenl

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 08:09:19 pm »
The idea is that these renewable energy industries must be able to economically operate without being heavily subsidized from any government. Emissions have nothing to do with it, thats just marketing bla bla.
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 08:29:56 pm »
Sadly were going to see more and more of this as renewable energy become more viable.  Governments don't want renewable energy to possibly threaten big oil.   If it gets to a point where more people start putting solar panels on their roofs or using wind turbines they'll start to make it illegal.  There are already places in the states with HOAs where this is the case.  Some places also don't allow you to collect rain water because it's considered owned by the city so they could easily do the same with wind or sun.   
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 08:47:55 pm »
Some places might be like that, but most countries welcome renewable/cheap energy solutions.
And the simple fact is that something has to be done to handle the electric car revolution. The grid just cant handle everyone having/charging an electric car.

I think Tesla have the right idea with a home battery bank.  This way you can charge it up however you want, solar/wind etc.
It can run your house direct most off the time as well as fast charge your electric car.
It only needs to draw power from the grid if total output exceeds total input, and even then it's more of a constant trickle of electricity from the grid. Exactly what the grid needs, no more building to peak demand!

« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 08:54:28 pm by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 08:57:29 pm »
Some places also don't allow you to collect rain water because it's considered owned by the city so they could easily do the same with wind or sun.

Seriously?  WTF, that is insane. 

Like Dave said, I want off this world.

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 09:37:02 pm »
There's a significant problem with wind/water/solar renewables: intermittency. That requires an equivalent amount of conventional plant to be available when the renewables aren't. Conventional plant cannot simply be turned on and off - it reduces their life/reliability and increases costs. The industry term for this is "dispatch", and there's a reasonable explanation of it here: http://www.templar.co.uk/downloads/Renewable%20Energy%20Limitations.pdf

The key point is that renewables should be responsible for the costs of keeping that conventional plant available for when the renewables aren't "doing their job".

Looking at the total UK wind power generation over the past year, from http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/download.php , shows the probability of wind power.  Notice particularly the traditional statement that "if the wind isn't blowing here then it will be blowing there" is demonstrably false.

From that we can see
Percentage of Time                 Power is Less Than This Percentage of Peak Power                 Comment
12%10%Once a week you have "lost" 90% of the wind output
50%35%Every other day you have "lost" 65% of the wind output
And that "whoops, sorry, we can't do it today" "ungenerated" power has to come from conventional plant.


There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline AndreasF

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 10:07:13 pm »
From that we can see
Percentage of Time                 Power is Less Than This Percentage of Peak Power                 Comment
12%10%Once a week you have "lost" 90% of the wind output
50%35%Every other day you have "lost" 65% of the wind output
And that "whoops, sorry, we can't do it today" "ungenerated" power has to come from conventional plant.

Just saying.  ;)
my random ramblings mind-dump.net
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2015, 12:02:14 am »
From that we can see
Percentage of Time                 Power is Less Than This Percentage of Peak Power                 Comment
12%10%Once a week you have "lost" 90% of the wind output
50%35%Every other day you have "lost" 65% of the wind output
And that "whoops, sorry, we can't do it today" "ungenerated" power has to come from conventional plant.

Just saying.  ;)

I'm not sure why you think that is important.

The peak power is the important figure, since it defines the total range of "replacement" power that must be sourced from conventional plant when renewables have given up the ghost. In the UK the wind power varies from 0 to 6.8GW. So 6.8GW must be available when wind doesn't deliver on its promises.

The mean power is relevant for other purposes, but the peak and minimum are very important figures that "the greens" like to ignore.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline neotesla

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2015, 08:15:48 am »
Likewise, the "tech fixers" love to put too much emphasis on baseload power.

Everybody likes to grind their own ax, while in reality, not any individual "one thing" will solve everything at once. (Eg. see here).
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Australian PM bans renewable energy body from investing in wind
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2015, 09:10:14 am »
Anyway Tony is gone now, and hopefully this ridiculous limitation will go too.
 


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