Author Topic: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS  (Read 30253 times)

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Offline DrGeoff

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2015, 02:36:12 pm »
Sadly this appears to be the cost-cutting strategy. If you have coax in your street you weill probably remain connected to that, with all the shared-bandwidth limitations. And they will probably try and charge you more for less than what you already have.
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Offline mswhin63

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2015, 12:49:05 am »
Looks like we are getting it next year. Telstra already have fibre to RIM's in our area so it should be straight forward cut over with residence only if Telstra release their fibre.
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2015, 11:39:57 pm »
"Helen Coonan, our Minister of Communications and Information Technology demonstrated live on TV on at least two occasions she did not even know what bandwidth was."

"Bandwidth" is like happiness in the old song,"different things to different people"...
...People trying to refer to what we happily used to call  "bandwidth" have to say "occupied spectrum",because the "tech savvy " generation will get confused.
So,what is bandwidth?

I heard our outsourced IT guy say more than once, "You've run out of bandwidth." What he meant to say was "You've reached your monthly limit on the volume of of data you can receive or transmit." I kindly explained to him what bandwidth is, without offending him. Other than that, he is actually a very good IT person compared to most of them - good advice, always responsive.

Helen Coonan said on the ABC's 7:30 report something along the lines of, "The country gets one megabit and the city gets two megabits."  :-DD
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 11:41:51 pm by VK3DRB »
 

Offline madires

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2015, 12:31:18 am »
"Helen Coonan, our Minister of Communications and Information Technology demonstrated live on TV on at least two occasions she did not even know what bandwidth was."

"Bandwidth" is like happiness in the old song,"different things to different people"...
...People trying to refer to what we happily used to call  "bandwidth" have to say "occupied spectrum",because the "tech savvy " generation will get confused.
So,what is bandwidth?

I heard our outsourced IT guy say more than once, "You've run out of bandwidth." What he meant to say was "You've reached your monthly limit on the volume of of data you can receive or transmit." I kindly explained to him what bandwidth is, without offending him. Other than that, he is actually a very good IT person compared to most of them - good advice, always responsive.

I don't think it's that simple. When someone says "1MHz bandwidth", it's clear it's about some signal with a bandwidth of 1MHz. The signal occupies 1MHz in the frequency domain. That could be 0-1MHz or 20-21MHz for example. In the network world it's bps. So we can say that a bandwidth of 1Mbps occupies 1Mbps in the bps domain. It's literally the same way of thinking as for the frequency domain. Take a channelized E1 for example. It got 32 timeslots with 64kbps each. When your 64kbps line is multiplexed into the E1 you might got timeslot #10, i.e. your line occupies the bandwidth between timeslots #9 and #11, i.e. 640-704 kbps.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2015, 07:38:27 am »
Bandwidth also have another meaning as in the resources available to do a task.

Someone can say "We (as a group) don't have enough bandwidth (resources) to take into a new project"

Bad usage of the original meaning? maybe, but it is common use. So when someone says that you've run out of bandwidth they really are saying you are out of resources for the task at hand.

Myself I don't find it confusing since bandwidth, in the frequency domain, relates to frequencies (resources) available per unit of time.

All of them are time related but one is more instant limits per short unit of time (what you don't use is gone) the other is a cap limit per longer unit of time (what you don't use is gone as well)

 

Offline gnif

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #80 on: November 05, 2015, 10:14:24 am »
Everyone keeps complaining about the city areas that need NBN, but what about the areas that barely have ADSL1 services?

Those city areas have options, starting with ADSL2 to Fibre, but up here in the Blue Mountains, if you are lucky you might get ADSL2+, but for most of us we only have ADSL1. My work relies on the internet, and the last two days have been an absolute nightmare for me as I had to upload a 2.1GiB file for work. This took me 18 hours.... that is 18 hours I just have to sit and twiddle my thumbs for.

Honestly Dave, you are lucky to be in an area where fibre is an option despite the cost. I would gladly pay a premium for fibre in the BM if it was an option.
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Offline TomS_

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2015, 09:51:44 am »
Serious question, is there a link between the east coast and the west coast?
When i was in Australia in 2010-ish, people told me that internet between Sydney and Perth was only via cables going to Americas to Europe to Asia to west coast, all the way around the planet.
Was that the case, and is it still?

Old post I know, but total rubbish and has never been the case.

There are 2 companies that have cables across the Nullarbor Plain: Telstra, Nextgen, and I think there used to be a 3rd that was bought out by Telstra. So at least 3 cables anyway, with Telstra having diversity.

Telstra also has alternate routes via the north, but they have the means and necessity to do so.

Preceeding optical fibre, Telstra had microwave across the Nullarbor, rolled out in the 60's or 70's or thereabouts. Prior to even that they had some satellite capacity (late in the game) along side open wire carriers.

So who ever told you that we have to go the long way around just to get from one side of the country to the other just has no clue about what they are talking about.

For the future there are murmurings of a submarine cable to connect the west and east coasts, with potential for spurs to Adelaide, Melbourne and Hobart. Thats being planned by SubPartners and is called APX Central, and would form part of a larger system connecting Asia and the US to Australias west and east coasts respectively.
 

Offline DrGeoff

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2015, 10:07:30 am »
Serious question, is there a link between the east coast and the west coast?
When i was in Australia in 2010-ish, people told me that internet between Sydney and Perth was only via cables going to Americas to Europe to Asia to west coast, all the way around the planet.
Was that the case, and is it still?

Old post I know, but total rubbish and has never been the case.

There are 2 companies that have cables across the Nullarbor Plain: Telstra, Nextgen, and I think there used to be a 3rd that was bought out by Telstra. So at least 3 cables anyway, with Telstra having diversity.

Telstra also has alternate routes via the north, but they have the means and necessity to do so.

Preceeding optical fibre, Telstra had microwave across the Nullarbor, rolled out in the 60's or 70's or thereabouts. Prior to even that they had some satellite capacity (late in the game) along side open wire carriers.

So who ever told you that we have to go the long way around just to get from one side of the country to the other just has no clue about what they are talking about.

For the future there are murmurings of a submarine cable to connect the west and east coasts, with potential for spurs to Adelaide, Melbourne and Hobart. Thats being planned by SubPartners and is called APX Central, and would form part of a larger system connecting Asia and the US to Australias west and east coasts respectively.

Plus we also have the long piece of string with a Milo tin at each end. In case of intense solar flare activity :)
Was it really supposed to do that?
 

Online Richard Crowley

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2015, 12:08:59 pm »
Preceeding optical fibre, Telstra had microwave across the Nullarbor, rolled out in the 60's or 70's or thereabouts. Prior to even that they had some satellite capacity (late in the game) along side open wire carriers.

Quote
The need for a communications link across the continent was the spur for the development of an east–west crossing. Once Eyre had proved that a link between South Australia and Western Australia was possible, efforts to connect them via telegraph began. In 1877, after two years of labour, the first messages were sent on the new telegraph line, boosted by eight repeater stations along the way. The line operated for about 50 years before being superseded, and remnants of it remain visible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullarbor_Plain#Telegraph

So somewhere in the 1930s they replaced the telegraph with voice-grade telephone lines?

Eight repeater stations!  Presumably, essentially what we would call a "relay" today.  (Is that where it got the name?)
How were they powered?  Did somebody have to take batteries out to the stations on horseback every week?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #84 on: December 23, 2015, 01:37:50 pm »
Everyone keeps complaining about the city areas that need NBN, but what about the areas that barely have ADSL1 services?
Those city areas have options, starting with ADSL2 to Fibre, but up here in the Blue Mountains, if you are lucky you might get ADSL2+, but for most of us we only have ADSL1. My work relies on the internet, and the last two days have been an absolute nightmare for me as I had to upload a 2.1GiB file for work. This took me 18 hours.... that is 18 hours I just have to sit and twiddle my thumbs for.
Honestly Dave, you are lucky to be in an area where fibre is an option despite the cost. I would gladly pay a premium for fibre in the BM if it was an option.

In your line of business I don't know why you'd tolerate crap internet. That would be reason for me to move!
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2015, 06:11:31 pm »
Preceeding optical fibre, Telstra had microwave across the Nullarbor, rolled out in the 60's or 70's or thereabouts. Prior to even that they had some satellite capacity (late in the game) along side open wire carriers.

Quote
The need for a communications link across the continent was the spur for the development of an east–west crossing. Once Eyre had proved that a link between South Australia and Western Australia was possible, efforts to connect them via telegraph began. In 1877, after two years of labour, the first messages were sent on the new telegraph line, boosted by eight repeater stations along the way. The line operated for about 50 years before being superseded, and remnants of it remain visible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullarbor_Plain#Telegraph

So somewhere in the 1930s they replaced the telegraph with voice-grade telephone lines?

Eight repeater stations!  Presumably, essentially what we would call a "relay" today.  (Is that where it got the name?)
How were they powered?  Did somebody have to take batteries out to the stations on horseback every week?

The original East-West Telegraph link was built before Federation,when,in effect,the States were different countries.
The Repeater Station at Eucla,on the SA/WA border,for instance,had two separate operating stations on either side of a large room.
For a Westbound message,the South Oz guy would read the Morse Code coming in,write it down,& pass it to the WA guy,who would send it on,& vice versa.

The Telegraphists,& their families lived in houses associated with the station.
This is how Line Telegraphy was done in the early days,& these were very early days,indeed

Yes,this is exactly where the term "Relay" comes from.
Although,the Electrical Relay had been invented,& ultimately,did allow unattended "repeater stations". it was not immediately adopted throughout the world.

The pressure to do this was not as great in Australia,& the American West,as in Europe,& the more populated East of the USA.
After all,if you had to station Linesmen at remote places to keep the line operating,why not keep the tried & true Operators?

Batteries,& indeed,other essentials were usually brought by sea,as most of the old Telegraph stations on the East-West Telegraph were near the coast.

The Trans Australia Railway was completed in 1917,& a new set of telegraph lines were run alongside that,with unattended repeaters,using Electromagnetic relays.

The old East-West line finally closed in 1927,according to Wiki.(another Wiki page)
I would suggest it was mainly used as a standby system for the last few years of its existence.
I guess,the Phone lines would have been installed in the 1930s,or so.

By the time I had any interest in the "new" E-W lines,they carried Multichannel voice systems,& VFT Telegraph systems.
The Long Line guys were pretty good at cramming channels onto a couple of pairs of wire!

We had a ISB HF Radio backup system for the E-W landline,where I worked.
It had four speech channels & two VFT Telegraph channels,but it was not an adequate backup for the landline.

At the time,"the writing was on the wall",for both systems,as the East-West microwave system came into being.opening in 1969.

Interestingly,the microwave system fairly closely followed the route of the original E-W Telegraph line.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 06:17:29 pm by vk6zgo »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2015, 07:04:24 pm »
Microwave following the lines is simple, no need for additional rights of way, and the differences are just from not needing to follow contours of land, so only going from high point to high point. That is why telephone and such also went along railway lines and power lines, if they were owned by the same company. Other companies also would rent the additional space in the right of way for the same reason, it is much cheaper.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2015, 07:50:49 pm »
Nope! The Microwave link followed the route of the original Telegraph line,hugging the South coast,as does the Eyre Highway.

The Trans train line & the second East West Telegraph line went straight across the "guts" of the country!
Following the train track made sense,as the "Eyre Highway" was nothing but a goat track in 1917.

The train made access to the line easy at the time,just as the road did for the Microwave,later.
 

Online Richard Crowley

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #88 on: December 24, 2015, 03:09:41 am »
Microwave following the lines is simple, no need for additional rights of way, and the differences are just from not needing to follow contours of land, so only going from high point to high point. That is why telephone and such also went along railway lines and power lines, if they were owned by the same company. Other companies also would rent the additional space in the right of way for the same reason, it is much cheaper.
One of the large communication providers here in the US grew directly out of the previous-century railroad business. Sprint started out as the Southern-Pacific Railroad communication operation.  Very early in the history of optical fibre, they installed major links along their rail rights-of-way.

Eucla has a very interesting history. Apparently it was the largest telegraph station outside a capitol city in Australia.  Telegraphy appears to be one of the larger employers in the village. And the relay point was apparently necessitated by half the continent using International Morse (as used today) and the other half using Victorian/old US Morse code. So the operators had to write messages and then hand them to other operators to "re-key" them on to the destination. 



And then there was the rabbit invasion that ended up creating sand dunes that "ate" the town in the best tradition of "B-grade" horror movies. And then there was the "Nullarbor Nymph" sensation/hoax. And we thought all those things were a modern invention!   :-DD

http://members.iinet.net.au/~oseagram/eucla.html
 

Offline station240

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2016, 09:23:59 am »
Everyone keeps complaining about the city areas that need NBN, but what about the areas that barely have ADSL1 services?
Those city areas have options, starting with ADSL2 to Fibre, but up here in the Blue Mountains, if you are lucky you might get ADSL2+, but for most of us we only have ADSL1. My work relies on the internet, and the last two days have been an absolute nightmare for me as I had to upload a 2.1GiB file for work. This took me 18 hours.... that is 18 hours I just have to sit and twiddle my thumbs for.
Honestly Dave, you are lucky to be in an area where fibre is an option despite the cost. I would gladly pay a premium for fibre in the BM if it was an option.

In your line of business I don't know why you'd tolerate crap internet. That would be reason for me to move!

Problem is businesses don't exist only where "good internet"* exists. Businesses exist where their customers are.
I can think of several businesses where being local is vital, despite need to fast internet. What about accountants, tax agents, real estate.

You're only half right about Telstra though, the monopoly is 50%, the other 50% is they have never really accepted that supply of internet connections are just as important as telephone. They have been dragging their feet since the early 90's. The old "no one needs more than 640KB".

I too have am crippled by ADSL1 speeds, with capped upload on top. 8/0.33 is BS in this day and age.
NBNco started field work in my street 4 years ago to install fibre, they also ran 8Km of fibre through the suburb to feed new estates in my suburb. So naturally I'm getting FTTN bullshit, as Turnbull and the council dicked with NBNco's design/financal rules to ensure the expensive suburb got done instead.

* Quote from Turnbull himself, when he was trying to spin his watered down NBN.
 

Offline ehtkhr

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Re: eevBLAB #17 - The Australian NBN SUCKS
« Reply #90 on: February 29, 2016, 02:50:43 pm »
If you are in a business park there should be non-NB fibre running past your 'front door', you should just need to pay for the fibre to be run in to your lot (it could set you back $tens of thoudands)    I think the government really wanted to aim the NBN at the country where they don't have any decent Internet connectivity (with broadband not being available due to the distances between the houses and the switch).  NOOOOOWWWWW, this all went to pot when they looked at the real cost of providing the fibre to the door of every farm in Australia and went for 'wireless broadband'.  They then started looking for some quick wins by getting some 'on net' places on the NBN.  From what I can see now is, if the builder is prepared to foot the cost of getting NBN into the estate or building they put it in as a sweetener to pull in new buyers  otherwise they are concentrating on their POC locations or out lying areas.  Don't hold your breath for business parks and the like (unless they have fitted out the local switch (POP) for NBN and everyone in the park gets together to foot the bill for the cabling).
 


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