Author Topic: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!  (Read 4497 times)

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Online EEVblog

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eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« on: October 21, 2017, 06:39:28 pm »
Digikey are checking orders against the US Denied Persons list and holding orders until you can prove your generic name is not that person on the list.
Also, Element14 doing a similar thing.
https://www.eevblog.com/2014/02/24/element-14-holding-orders-based-on-us-government-watch-list/

 

Offline Towger

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2017, 08:24:35 pm »
It can get worse.  Yesterday there was a court case here were a man was fired from the Irish national electricity supply company,  because a 3rd party security agency said he was a danger to the national infrastructure of both Ireland and the UK.

They wanted to fire him quietly, but he has taken them to court, so it went public. 
There are no details of that he is accused/ member of, but he says he is guilty of nothing.   You can Google the case with "Graham Light  ESB", a genetic English name.  Lots of them around...

Added link:
High Court prevents dismissal of man after ESB considered him a 'risk to national infrastructure' http://jrnl.ie/3657092
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 08:29:52 pm by Towger »
 

Offline G0MJW

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2017, 09:25:53 pm »
Expect I am out of line with most people's thinking but I would rather details were checked than be blown up by some lunatic fanatic. Governments share watch list data, so I can see why things might be checked, even outside the US, against a US list. Ask yourself would you rather have a plot foiled in Australia based on US intelligence, or not foiled because only the local list was used?

David Jones, if it were not on the list, might be a good choice of pseudonym. Someone claiming to be Dave going down to the chemists for say, some sulphuric acid, some nitric acid, some glycerol, a lump of clay and a box of soda ash might elicit the response "no worries, he's just going blast fishing" whereas it they were anyone else it might be viewed differently.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40604543 or https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/28/britain-foiled-terror-attacks-plots-police-counter-terrorism-security-services

First name and last name like in Dave's case is a pretty crude flag, I can imagine what it's like for John Smith or Mohammed Khan or Zhang Wei.


Mike
 

Offline NivagSwerdna

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2017, 09:32:30 pm »
Firstly, I was stopped once, presumably as part of keeping the racial numbers balanced, in a 'random' stop and search at a mainline railway station... I gave my name etc and this was radioed in... once the response came the officers suddenly got hyper aggressive and it turned unpleasant... it wasn't until some time later that they decided I wasn't the guy they were looking for.  Names are definitely too ambiguous... we should all be bar coded or RFIDed.  ;)

Secondly, holding up orders is so dumb.  Just send the order details silently to the authorities.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2017, 09:43:56 pm »
In many countries it's in fact illegal and considered racist, to judge someone by his name, appearance, religion, skin tone, gender etc

The fact that this is even done blows my mind totally. Goes right against many laws and constitutions.

Moreover I don't get the pure overly dramatic answers from the US. If you look at the factual numbers there has been pretty much zero attacks from overseas weirdos in years. But instead many from weirdos from their own soil.
So basically they force the rest of the world giving up their privacy for something that's not even the biggest problem. In fact many other areas in the world (europe, but the pacific as well), having more and very serious issues.
To be clear, there has been zero prove and evidence that monitoring peoples data is even effective. In fact at a certain point it even does the exact opposite
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline Towger

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2017, 10:06:01 pm »
The problem is all the false matches.  I have heard of many strange/stupit matches and even the odd probable real match...  The only problem is they were just trying to pay bills.  In finance systems, if your name is on a list you have to provide you date and place/city of birth with each transaction for automatic clearance.  It the software supports this and the user/company knows how to enter.

It is not unheard of for a company to upgrade their systems and transactions to start  queue up for manual approval and no one in the company is any the wiser...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:14:08 pm by Towger »
 

Offline unclebob

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2017, 10:36:20 pm »
It's like the "I will not use this PC to build nuclear weapons" checkbox when you order something from Dell. The yanks are completely of the rocker. I ran into similar issues with Digikey because "hobbyist home automation device" was not specific enough as description for the use of the parts ("plant humidity sensor" finally was harmless enough for them). If I can get my parts from a non US or UK vendor, I always do so because it's much less annoying and I don't care if it costs more.
 
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Offline b_force

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2017, 11:20:05 pm »
("plant humidity sensor" finally was harmless enough for them).
Or is it?

Maybe you're a big 'green grass' supplier  ;) 8) 8) 8) ;D
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline unclebob

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 11:36:56 pm »
("plant humidity sensor" finally was harmless enough for them).
Or is it?

Maybe you're a big 'green grass' supplier  ;) 8) 8) 8) ;D
;D I should get a PO-Box in the Netherlands to "measure the impulse response"
 

Offline ebclr

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2017, 12:36:31 am »
China suppliers love this, The only question they ask is did you paid?
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2017, 01:45:09 am »
The upside is that eventually everyone will be on a watchlist, and life can go back to normal.?
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2017, 01:50:37 am »
China suppliers love this, The only question they ask is did you paid?

You're forgetting where they ask which fake marking you want.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 02:18:16 am »
You're forgetting where they ask which fake marking you want.
You're saying it as if a wide variety of choice is a bad thing.
 

Offline madires

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2017, 02:24:25 am »
Shoot first, ask later. :scared:
 

Offline coppice

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2017, 02:38:22 am »
Digikey are checking orders against the US Denied Persons list and holding orders until you can prove your generic name is not that person on the list.
Also, Element14 doing a similar thing.
Have you ever had problems with things like credit cards? People with very common names often do, and it doesn't matter much if you have a distinctive middle name. Even having a common initial can be problem. In London Patel is a common surname, and a lot of the given names that go with Patel begin with S. Friends have told me that if your name is S Patel, regardless of what the S stands for, you'll get credit check related issues from time to time.
 

Offline edy

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 06:43:59 am »
Can someone explain to me what it is they are trying to prevent by checking somebody against a watchlist? Do you think somebody building a bomb or trying to harm people is ordering parts off Element 14 or Digi-Key? Heck, you could just make your own suitcase clock bomb like our boy Mohamed by going down to your local Wal-Mart....  :palm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Mohamed_clock_incident



Dave, I agree this is complete and utter B.S..  I understand there may be some legitimacy in checking people buying industrial-sized quantities of fertilizer but if you are a terrorist, or some psychopath, as we have unfortunately seen lately in Las Vegas, you are not going to be stopped by some Digi-Key or Element 14 check against a US watchlist. You also can buy computers, electronics, etc... from many other places, including CHINA (eBay, Alibaba), and also dismantle and modify readily-available electronics from stores around you, electronics hobby shops, etc. Or even have someone else buy them for you.

It just boggles the mind what this "US Watch List" is really doing? What is it trying to prevent? Please someone explain to me what actual purpose it serves other than pure and utter B.S.? Or is it just a "show of force" or domination/imperialism by USA?



« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:47:24 am by edy »
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Offline blueskull

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2017, 07:22:52 am »
Happened to me once. Mouser asked me if my dev kit will be exported to a banned state or being used for biological or nuclear weapon research.
FFS, the board features an AES enabled DSP, and that's the only reason it made its way to EAR list.
The next time I go through US CBP I should wear a T-shirt with simplified RSA code, HDCP master key, MD5 seeds and AES coeffs printed on it and see how it goes.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Online Richard Crowley

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2017, 07:42:53 am »
What's all the fuss about here?  Isn't this simply typical ordinary and expected government bungling up what may have been a sensible idea at some point in the distant past?  They do the same thing in a hundred other areas. But those areas aren't the topic of the EEVblog forums.  You guys creack me up.   :-DD

I work for a company with operations worldwide, including a few "Controlled Countries".  We must be very careful about what is exchanged (both hardware and software, IP, etc.) with CC people.  We have whole gangs of lawyers dealing with this to keep us out of trouble.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 07:46:22 am by Richard Crowley »
 

Offline ebclr

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2017, 10:36:07 am »
All these work is a pure waste of time, The parts will go to the so "called" bad guys anyway.


“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”


? Benjamin Franklin
 
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Offline Old Don

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2017, 11:44:04 am »
It gets even dumber when it's California laws.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an opinion to uphold a California law that requires a full 10-day ‘cooling off’ period for all lawful purchases of firearms, even for purchasers who have previously bought guns and passed background checks in less than 10 days. Additionally, the Ninth Circuit took issue with the lower court’s determination that the cooling off period could not be justified as an effective crime deterrent when applied to those who already owned guns and passed background checks.  In essence, the lower court reasoned that if a gun owner wanted to go act impulsively, they already had the means to do so and did not need to go buy another gun to accomplish the task. So the fact that you have 4 or 5 (maybe 10 or 12 etc) other guns at home that suit the purpose if you want to go around the bend doesn't seem to compute with the pol's.

Hope you don't own cows in CA:  SB 1383: Controlling Cow Flatulence. Capture cow farts or suffer heavy fines.  CARB (CA Air Resources Board) suggests inserting a tube into the cow’s digestive system and venting into a backpack. 

Prop. 57:  Early Release for so-called Non-Violent Criminals.  Among those offenses considered “non-violent”:  rape of an unconscious person; human trafficking involving sex acts with minors; and assault with a deadly weapon. Blogger Felicia Wilson summed it up well (original emphasis):  “…Call me crazy, but shouldn’t a crime that includes the word rape or assault be considered, I don’t know… violent?”

Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship - so I hope they are good at measuring distances!
Retired - Formerly: Navy ET, University of Buffalo Electronic Tech, Field Engineer and former laptop repair business owner
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2017, 11:56:06 am »
What's all the fuss about here?  Isn't this simply typical ordinary and expected government bungling up what may have been a sensible idea at some point in the distant past?  They do the same thing in a hundred other areas. But those areas aren't the topic of the EEVblog forums.  You guys creack me up.   :-DD

I work for a company with operations worldwide, including a few "Controlled Countries".  We must be very careful about what is exchanged (both hardware and software, IP, etc.) with CC people.  We have whole gangs of lawyers dealing with this to keep us out of trouble.
If it were just the governments bungling up another thing, it wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that we're currently engaged in large scale security theatre. This distracts from the actual problem, causes all sorts of issues for law abiding citizens and happens at the expense of huge amounts of tax monetary units.

If this were to be limited to one country, it wouldn't even be that bad. Unfortunately, some countries insist on exporting the madness elsewhere, much like similar overreaching in other areas happened in the past. Erosion of the sovereignty of countries doesn't sound like some minor bungling.

Both are major geopolitical themes at the moment and can hardly be called typical or ordinary.
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2017, 12:14:11 pm »
What happened to the “inocent until proven guilty” ?
 

Offline ebclr

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2017, 12:49:48 pm »
"What happened to the “innocent until proven guilty” ?"

Was replaced by guilty until be proven innocent ( but only valid on court of appeal )
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2017, 01:37:24 pm »
It gets even dumber when it's California laws.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals issued an opinion to uphold a California law that requires a full 10-day ‘cooling off’ period for all lawful purchases of firearms, even for purchasers who have previously bought guns and passed background checks in less than 10 days. Additionally, the Ninth Circuit took issue with the lower court’s determination that the cooling off period could not be justified as an effective crime deterrent when applied to those who already owned guns and passed background checks.  In essence, the lower court reasoned that if a gun owner wanted to go act impulsively, they already had the means to do so and did not need to go buy another gun to accomplish the task. So the fact that you have 4 or 5 (maybe 10 or 12 etc) other guns at home that suit the purpose if you want to go around the bend doesn't seem to compute with the pol's.

Hope you don't own cows in CA:  SB 1383: Controlling Cow Flatulence. Capture cow farts or suffer heavy fines.  CARB (CA Air Resources Board) suggests inserting a tube into the cow’s digestive system and venting into a backpack. 

Prop. 57:  Early Release for so-called Non-Violent Criminals.  Among those offenses considered “non-violent”:  rape of an unconscious person; human trafficking involving sex acts with minors; and assault with a deadly weapon. Blogger Felicia Wilson summed it up well (original emphasis):  “…Call me crazy, but shouldn’t a crime that includes the word rape or assault be considered, I don’t know… violent?”

Animals are banned from mating publicly within 1,500 feet of a tavern, school, or place of worship - so I hope they are good at measuring distances!

The State of California is known to cause cancer and birth defectives or other reproductive harm.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline medical-nerd

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Re: eevBLAB #38 - Digikey & The US Government Watchlist!
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2017, 11:25:01 pm »
Hiya

I miss the early 90's. There was a unix simulator I found used for assessing armour resistance to low nuclear yields etc that could be run on Linux. It required a licence password from the USA DOD. I applied from the UK while a student and was granted a license. Wish I still had that letter cos it was a pretty letterhead!!! I look for rf microwave surplus to play with, many US companies will not send me junk saying its export restricted because UK is a country that supports terrorists and is blacklisted. They will however export to South Africa etc. I find more success finding junk from countries like Israel. God knows what watchlists I'm on...... :scared:

Cheers

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