new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[norks]

These are images I've seen of the logic pods for this scope. I'm expecting they are included with the MSO option.

http://www.datatec.de/Rohde-RTB-B1-Oszilloskop-Mixed-Signal-Option.htm
(on the table in this clip) https://youtu.be/SqrGF5yNYe8?t=256

To me they look nearly identical to the ones for the HMO1000, although in specs for the RTB I'm seeing 250MHz max whereas the HMO pod listed 350MHz (maybe just a re-spec instead of a HW change?).

[stuartk]

Hi Mike,

Quick first impression - some UI aspects are fractionally more sluggish than you might like, e.g. rotary but probably not enough to be annoying. Probably the most annoying thing so far is the position and general entry knobs are detented.
UART Decode looks reasonably good, though datasheet says UART to 32Mbaud but it seems to stop at 3Mbaud. I have queried this as IMO 3M is too low.
I've also had the touchscreen completely stop working on one occasion, needing a power cycle to restore.

Did it come with the digital logic probes for the MSO?

[mikeselectricstuff]

The remote web access is awesome - it's pretty much like having the scope in front of you.
Even worked pretty well via my phone/wifi, though screen size makes the UI knobs less useable

[pm.llb]

It all seems pretty clear -- the distributors had a few units they could ship quickly, and all remaining orders will come from the next shipment.  The 11 number is how many units TestEquity have left to sell from their promo allocation, and has no relationship to the timing of shipments.  Probably that number will fluctuate, I'm sure a few people will end up cancelling their orders.

Mike got a demo unit in the UK, so that has no connection at all with sale units in the US.

5-6 weeks of delivery ( 05'17) ? They probably are sitting now 24/7 and glueing parts together to meet the orders. Does anybody know where scopes are assemblied ? Hopefully not in China .
In the other way, if there were some late hw/sw updates it should be delivered in the second wave ...

[corn11]

It all seems pretty clear -- the distributors had a few units they could ship quickly, and all remaining orders will come from the next shipment.  The 11 number is how many units TestEquity have left to sell from their promo allocation, and has no relationship to the timing of shipments.  Probably that number will fluctuate, I'm sure a few people will end up cancelling their orders.

Mike got a demo unit in the UK, so that has no connection at all with sale units in the US.

5-6 weeks of delivery ( 05'17) ? They probably are sitting now 24/7 and glueings parts together to meet orders. Does anybody know where scopes are assemblied ? Hopefully not in China . In the other way, if there were some late software updates it should be delivered in the second wave ...

They're probably manufactured at the R&S factory in the Czech Republic.

edit: I haven't remembered that correctly, the factory in Vimperk, CZ already belonged to R&S before they've bought Hameg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hameg

[mikeselectricstuff]

The UK people are currently talking to each other to see if they can offer a launch deal.
Will post if I hear more. Apparently Farnell should have stock any day ( but at list price ATM).

[mikeselectricstuff]

It all seems pretty clear -- the distributors had a few units they could ship quickly, and all remaining orders will come from the next shipment.  The 11 number is how many units TestEquity have left to sell from their promo allocation, and has no relationship to the timing of shipments.  Probably that number will fluctuate, I'm sure a few people will end up cancelling their orders.

Mike got a demo unit in the UK, so that has no connection at all with sale units in the US.

5-6 weeks of delivery ( 05'17) ? They probably are sitting now 24/7 and glueings parts together to meet orders. Does anybody know where scopes are assemblied ? Hopefully not in China . In the other way, if there were some late software updates it should be delivered in the second wave ...

They're probably manufactured at the former Hameg factory in the Czech Republic.

No indication of manufacture location on unit or packaging

[Neganur]

confirmed shipping day for me is 28.04.  that's 6 weeks since the day of placing the order 16.03. ugh...(and they already have the money)

[maginnovision]

The remote web access is awesome - it's pretty much like having the scope in front of you.
Even worked pretty well via my phone/wifi, though screen size makes the UI knobs less useable

That's good to hear, I just assumed it'd be useless like some others.

[LaurentR]

Just got 04/28 shipment date from TEquipment (ordered Friday).

[NA5WH]

R&S released 3 more marketing videos, all short and pretty unhelpful:


Waveform Gen


Logic Analyzer


Annotation tool.

*shrugs*     Come on Mike, we're dieing to get some real info 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Just finishing quick first impressions and teardown - not sure if I have the energy  to edit tonight.
After that will do a few vids covering particular areas as there's way too much to do a comprehensive review on one go. ( assuming it works after i put it back together!)

Only minor downsides so far :
Detented fine/position knobs.
Wfms/sec not stellar, and reduces with memory depth -  pretty much par for the course with a non-ASIC design.
Touchscreen hung once.
UART decode only up to 3MBaud ( Datasheet says 32 but possibly a typo - have made enquiries)
UI more sluggish than Keysight, but don't think too annoying - time will tell.
Shiny screen is very fingermarky. They should ship it with a cloth.

Lots and lots of good stuff though - launch bundle is still a total no-brainer if you can get it.

And nobody can complain about the PSU. Nichicon caps and the PSU is a stock item in Digikey!

[nctnico]

For clarity: the PSU is an off-the-shelve part?

[trevwhite]

Mike, how would you say it holds up against the MSOX3000A series? I know its target is the 2000 series but am curious as it looks a nice piece of kit.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Mike, how would you say it holds up against the MSOX3000A series? I know its target is the 2000 series but am curious as it looks a nice piece of kit.

Major pros and cons both ways. Will go into more detail later, definitely no clear winner, and will depend a lot on what you need.

[mikeselectricstuff]

For clarity: the PSU is an off-the-shelve part?

Yes.
http://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/xp-power/ECS65US12/1470-1296-ND/4487677

[mrpackethead]

Mike, how would you say it holds up against the MSOX3000A series? I know its target is the 2000 series but am curious as it looks a nice piece of kit.

3000A can be upgraded to 1G.,.. 2000 only to 200Mhz..     it seems to me it sits inbtween a 2000 and 3000?

[irakandjii]

Mike, how would you say it holds up against the MSOX3000A series? I know its target is the 2000 series but am curious as it looks a nice piece of kit.

3000A can be upgraded to 1G.,.. 2000 only to 200Mhz..     it seems to me it sits inbtween a 2000 and 3000?

Interesting a Keysight
MSOX3034A Mixed Signal Oscilloscope, with options is ~$12,500 (US)
MSOX2024A Mixed Signal Oscilloscope, with options    ~$  4,800 (US)

I look forward to the comparisons

[ci11]

How is it for low level sensitivity and triggering, say with a 20Hz, 500µV sine wave?

[mikeselectricstuff]

How is it for low level sensitivity and triggering, say with a 20Hz, 500µV sine wave?

Pretty good - there is a few mV offset on trigger level. Self-cal reduces this a bit but not entirely.
At 1mv/div with the input unconnected there's about half a div worst-case noise, in peak-det mode at max waveform intensity, right up to 300MHz.

[nctnico]

That seems pretty noisy. Does the noise get less at less sensitive input settings? Or put differently: does the noise come from the frontend or the ADCs?

[agdr]

At 1mv/div with the input unconnected there's about half a div worst-case noise, in peak-det mode at max waveform intensity, right up to 300MHz.

I'm curious - does it have an averaging acquisition mode?  If that noise is truly random then averaging should pretty much eliminate it.  Except on my Rigol DS2202A which produces a sinc waveform.  I'm curious what a real scope does here with averaging.

Also - any difference if the input is shorted instead of open?

Thanks! 

[mikeselectricstuff]

That seems pretty noisy. Does the noise get less at less sensitive input settings? Or put differently: does the noise come from the frontend or the ADCs?

The front-end - at lower sensitivities it's pretty much a flat line.

[ci11]

Attached is a test done on a HMO1202, using a 20Hz, ~500µV sine wave. It triggered perfectly and the Hi-Res mode cleaned it up so it can be seen. Mike - would you mind trying to see of the RTB can do this? Thank you!

[mikeselectricstuff]