new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[BravoV]

Do the Hameg and GW Instek so you have something new to show & tell. Others have already beaten you when it comes to the other scopes.

I don't care about being beaten.

Nope, you're not beaten at all, just take your time Dave.

Don't get provoked just because some grasshopper is not patience. 

When it comes to Dave vs Mike on scope's review, to me at least, its like tea vs coffee, and I love both, you guys are just different.

[vokars]

and with the presale event over it is a very expensive scope.

I think some options are too expensive but the base versions and the bandwidth-upgrades are ok. Even if it would be an 8bit DSO. But it is not. And it is the only 10bit device in that price class as far as I know. No competition for the moment. How to evaluate the fair price? Depends on the user and how much he needs I device that has less noise than other DSOs.

[agdr]

...and with the presale event over it is a very expensive scope.

Just a reminder that the $2080 promo package deal on the RTB2004 *is* still going on at Newark, but apparently they can only sell into the USA market.  They have a pricing mixup with their system though.  I exchanged some PMs today with a fellow buying one and Rich from R&S.  The website shows $2080 here

http://www.newark.com/rohde-schwarz/rtb2k-com4/rtb2004-complete-bundle-300-mhz/dp/08AC3745?ost=rtb2004&categoryId=800000047008&searchView=table&iscrfnonsku=false

But when you put it in your cart the number may flip to the $7900 (or $8600 I just learned) list price for the package.  Or it may show the correct price in the cart and $8600 then show up in the email confirm.  The system is grabbing from a database that doesn't have the promo pricing now that the deal is over at the other two US distributors.  Rich says you have to call into Newark's sales department and talk to them to get it priced correctly, until they can get the database thing worked out.

Only 50 units available apparently, total, at the promo price. No idea how many are sold already.

So in a nutshell, for USA buyers anyway, this really is a second chance if you missed the first round at the other 2 US distributors.

[Neganur]

If you are really interested in buying it then have to do more homework, get one on loan and do your own tests to see if it fits your needs.

OFC I am interested, why do you think I keep posting in here - which IS part of "doing the homework". Man I dislike remarks like that.
You can't get a loaner of this, hell you can't even buy it (5-6 weeks lead time) since there is no stock in EU. Which is the whole point of the reviewers getting early units.

[EEVblog]

I think some options are too expensive but the base versions and the bandwidth-upgrades are ok. Even if it would be an 8bit DSO. But it is not. And it is the only 10bit device in that price class as far as I know. No competition for the moment. How to evaluate the fair price? Depends on the user and how much he needs I device that has less noise than other DSOs.

Exactly. Hard to compare apples with apples here. Only way to do that is based on price, and this is actually not a cheap scope.
And you can't do a review based on a one-off launch special either. In fact it shouldn't even be mentioned.
If I did a quick "first impressions" video now then I'd mention it, but in a review, no.

[EEVblog]

Only 50 units available apparenlty, total, at the promo price. No idea how many are sold already.

I was told there are 300 units in each market. US/EU/APAC

[nctnico]

If you are really interested in buying it then have to do more homework, get one on loan and do your own tests to see if it fits your needs.

OFC I am interested, why do you think I keep posting in here - which IS part of "doing the homework". Man I dislike remarks like that.
You can't get a loaner of this, hell you can't even buy it (5-6 weeks lead time) since there is no stock in EU. Which is the whole point of the reviewers getting early units.

Homework=reading the specifications and user manual(s) to determine the exact functions and limitations. Review videos are just like a articles in a magazine to get people's interest going but by no means a good source of information to make a purchase decission for several $k.

[Neganur]

Thanks for stating the obvious...and I do not share your opinion regarding review videos.

[Octane]

I, for example, would like to see how the RTB2000 rises up to the waveform update rate expectations in different timebases and memory depth. I guess R&S can not really mess that up, but it still would be interesting to see.

Michael

[EEVblog]

Used it for a few minutes and found an acquisition bug:

[agdr]

Only 50 units available apparenlty, total, at the promo price. No idea how many are sold already.

I was told there are 300 units in each market. US/EU/APAC

Probably is the case, but I'm pretty sure from the discussions today that Newark's allocation of that lot for round 2 is just 50.  I'll bet the other 250 is what already was sold in round 1 by the 2 US and 2 Canadian distributors.

I just figured out where the $8,600 number comes from.   The $7,900 list price plus tax.  That is one issue with Newark, they likely have a presence in all 50 states so everyone in the US gets taxed.  Expect to pay state tax on the $2080 promo bundle.  I had to pay tax at one of the first round distributors, $171 I think it was.

EDIT! just saw the review!  That is great.  Right off the bat you found a bug!    Thanks!

[EEVblog]

And another (probably related) bug switching channels off and on at slow timebase

[Octane]

I hope those can be fixed by firmware....

[EEVblog]

I hope those can be fixed by firmware....

Absolutely no doubt.
If the channel switch off thing is like a relay breaking the input circuit or whatever and causing actual sampling signal issues, then even that can be fixed in software by masking off first. It's a display thing.

[Octane]

Right. The first bug, though could be sampling hardware timing related, no? Which worst case could be at least pretty hard to fix or just with a workaround.

[EEVblog]

Right. The first bug, though could be sampling hardware timing related, no?

Maybe just an FPGA acquisition memory sizing bug, some dodgy Verilog somewhere or something maybe. 

[Octane]

True. Time will tell I guess... 

[maginnovision]

True. Time will tell I guess... 

There is very little that can't be fixed, one way or another, in software. Both bugs just look like they're displaying/interpreting the stored data erroneously.

[oh2hyt]

I contacted local R&S at start of this week. They kindly told they do not have promotion here and price for that set is 7190e + tax. 

[EEVblog]

All I needed was another few minutes using it and I just found a fairly serious issue.
Was going to do a 2nd channel video, but decided to compare with every other scope in the lab for the same issue and it's interesting enough to put on the main channel.
Stay tuned...

[ws2812b]

How does one actually compare the noise correctly? If I see it correctly in the review videos the RTB2000 seems to have 10 vertical divisions? On the other boxes it seems to be 8? Is this true or are my eyes getting old?
So do I have to scale the numbers in some way?

P.S. Still waiting at my delivery: expected next week :-). Did anybody else already get his box?

[maginnovision]

How does one actually compare the noise correctly? If I see it correctly in the review videos the RTB2000 seems to have 10 vertical divisions? On the other boxes it seems to be 8? Is this true or are my eyes getting old?
So do I have to scale the numbers in some way?

P.S. Still waiting at my delivery: expected next week :-). Did anybody else already get his box?

1mv/div is always 1mv/div despite the number of divisions unless you can't fit the noise on screen. If that's the case you can toss that scope out the window.

[mrpackethead]

Dear R&S. Thanks for yoru marketing stunt. Was going to buy one, but seems i cant'. And now i just dont' like you.

[mikeselectricstuff]

If you are really interested in buying it then have to do more homework, get one on loan and do your own tests to see if it fits your needs.

OFC I am interested, why do you think I keep posting in here - which IS part of "doing the homework". Man I dislike remarks like that.
You can't get a loaner of this, hell you can't even buy it (5-6 weeks lead time) since there is no stock in EU. Which is the whole point of the reviewers getting early units.

Homework=reading the specifications and user manual(s) to determine the exact functions and limitations. Review videos are just like a articles in a magazine to get people's interest going but by no means a good source of information to make a purchase decission for several $k.

That's useful, except the user manual is far from complete - in particular no significant docs on any of the options. There are also errors in the datasheets ( e.g. UART baudrate)

[mikeselectricstuff]

I was seeing some occasional, minor glitches in roll mode when doing the nyanscope demo.
It does often seem to do more apparently intialising- type stuff when changing apparently minor things, like it's reinitialising everything on any change that might affect something rather than only changing what's needed - I think maybe this makes some things fell a little more clunky than they should.

e.g. you hear relay clicks when sample rate changes from 2.5 to 1.25Gs/s.
I agree it should show memory in the top-right area.