Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?

[Chet T16]

I was thinking about an affordable thermal imager today when I was passing a couple of amps through various traces to see how they were performing. Of course the biggest attraction would be as a toy!

[thermalguy]

Is there anyone on here that has actually contributed money to the Mu Optics project on IGG?

[MFX]

I did based on the fact that I'd seen Chinese imager modules starting to appear on Alibaba etc. and had heard about some patents expiring so it seemed possible that a breakthrough in cheap imaging had been made but it quickly started to smell bad and I got a refund. I'll kick myself if it turns out to be legit (but incredibly badly managed) project (slim chance of that) but then even at their full MRSP it would be a bargain.

Martin.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Incidentally I wonder what the legalities would be of hacking an exported  9FPS camera outside the US....

Who cares.
It's yours, you can do what you want with it subject to local law.

Yeah but as the US consider them the same as arms, it could have repercussions  on the manufacturer if their gear turned out to be hackable. Obviously the regs were written before this sort of possibility was even thought of.
It's not beyond the  realms of possibility that someone who published a hack could be arrested on entry to US for subverting export regs.

[EEVblog]

Is there anyone on here that has actually contributed money to the Mu Optics project on IGG?

Yes, several people at least. I think they have all pulled their money and ran.

[EEVblog]

It's not beyond the  realms of possibility that someone who published a hack could be arrested on entry to US for subverting export regs.

Nothing is beyond the realms of possibility with the Yanks, because they think international law does not apply to them, and they can do anything they like.
Always reminds me of this:

[lemmegraphdat]

It's not beyond the  realms of possibility that someone who published a hack could be arrested on entry to US for subverting export regs.

Nothing is beyond the realms of possibility with the Yanks, because they think international law does not apply to them, and they can do anything they like.
Always reminds me of this:

Heh.

[CanadianAvenger]

Is there anyone on here that has actually contributed money to the Mu Optics project on IGG?

I'm a former backer as well, but pulled out and got a refund when the BS started getting too deep.

[PlainName]

Is there anyone on here that has actually contributed money to the Mu Optics project on IGG?

I was one. I already have a Thermacam which I use mostly for electronics: during initial power up testing to save burned fingers (and nowadays fingers can be too big to get in and feel some tiny SMT thing), for reflow work to see the exact point at which a QFP will lift off without bringing tracks with it, or all the solder will have melted, etc. Whilst it's not an absolutely necessary thing, I would miss it if I didn't have it, but the form factor is pants for this sort of work. The Mu device looked good in that respect: easily mountable over the bench hands free, and at a price where you're not afraid to take ti out of its box.

When the spec changed enough to make it useless for this sort of application I asked for a refund. Didn't get a reply so asked again a bit more strongly and got one. They even sent an extra $6 which was apparently to cover what PayPal should have charged me for the tranfer, so I have no complaints at all.

I would be quite worried if I still had money in it, though.

[thermalguy]

Okay. I am going to go ahead and do this. When the proof of concept is complete, I will do a youtube video showing how it works. If the feedback looks good we will do a costing exercise to see where it can go. Like I said, about 4 weeks or so working in the evenings.

For those wondering our company website is www.cstimaging.com and you can find us on YouTube.

Also, I am not sure if anyone has seen this...

http://www.builtinchicago.org/blog/innovative-factory-clients-mu-optics-and-scout-alarm-taking-crowdfunding-new-heights

Am I reading that correctly? Mu Optics raised $1.93M!? I would have LOVED to have that much funding...damn!

[Rasz]

http://www.builtinchicago.org/blog/innovative-factory-clients-mu-optics-and-scout-alarm-taking-crowdfunding-new-heights

Am I reading that correctly? Mu Optics raised $1.93M!? I would have LOVED to have that much funding...damn!

I think its a type, at the end of article they add both numbers and come up with "almost $400K"

[EEVblog]

Also, I am not sure if anyone has seen this...
http://www.builtinchicago.org/blog/innovative-factory-clients-mu-optics-and-scout-alarm-taking-crowdfunding-new-heights
Am I reading that correctly? Mu Optics raised $1.93M!? I would have LOVED to have that much funding...damn!

Haven't seen that before.
That must be a typo, and the article written when the campaign was still going, they must have meant $193,000
So Mu Optics used this "innovation factory" mob to produce the "original design and 3d printed prototype". By that it seems the "design" is simply the 3D CAD housing we see in the campaign.
So they definitely have a 3D printed prototype case, yet they won't show it? Why?
Not that the case matters squat, it's the electronics and the sensor and optics that are the important part. You know, the hard bits that "entrepreneurs" have no clue about 

[MacAttak]

Is there anyone on here that has actually contributed money to the Mu Optics project on IGG?

I too was a backer, but once I became more than 90% confident that they had no chance of delivering a product I pursued a refund.

The more recent messages from the muoptics people just seems more and more like this is a full-fledged scam. They are using nothing but evasion and delay tactics while trying as hard as they can to snare even more contribution cash.

[MacAttak]

And yes, that had to be a typo. The campaign raised slightly more than $200,000 by the time it completed.

They claim to have other investment capital, but haven't answered any questions about the source or size of those investments. Personally, I don't believe that they have any outside investment capital.

[Legit-Design]

I really really wanted one of these. It was just too good to be true. Luckily I already had bad experiences with "too good to be true" things in the internet, so I opted for waiting. There was only few days left on this project and negative comments on the hackaday.com article about mu thermal camera were starting to pile up.
Then I noticed the hackaday comments regarding mu thermal disappeared? Anyone else notice this? The hackaday mu thermal comments came back after the funding time ran out. When the comments disappeared I checked and none of the other hackaday articles comments were gone. So it couldn't have been problem with website/database or anything like that.

[jancumps]

Aha, conspiracy. Now it gets interesting 

[Rasz]

I really really wanted one of these. It was just too good to be true. Luckily I already had bad experiences with "too good to be true" things in the internet, so I opted for waiting. There was only few days left on this project and negative comments on the hackaday.com article about mu thermal camera were starting to pile up.
Then I noticed the hackaday comments regarding mu thermal disappeared? Anyone else notice this? The hackaday mu thermal comments came back after the funding time ran out. When the comments disappeared I checked and none of the other hackaday articles comments were gone. So it couldn't have been problem with website/database or anything like that.

hackaday was playing with layouts at the time, you must of  visited mid layout swap or something

[Legit-Design]

hackaday was playing with layouts at the time, you must of  visited mid layout swap or something

I dont think they change layout for every post separately, since some posts still had their comments. But then again most of the posts didn't have any comments and I didn't know if there were supposed to be any. Or maybe the new layout was broken for posts with too many comments. So instead of trying to show the comments, they disappeared all together. And after the campaign ended they fixed the comments. This wasn't just one evening, it was atleast on two different evenings.   

Luckily mu thermal guys were saying things I would say if progress didn't match up with reality... "we are doing our best" "we are trying very hard"  And trying to avoid answering the easiest of questions so it's technically not lying.

[sleemanj]

Then I noticed the hackaday comments regarding mu thermal disappeared?

Earlier this year HaD tried moving to a different commenting system, they were to import all the old comments, but it wasn't working, from memory for a few days (don't remember how long exactly) only new comments were showing.  Eventually HaD saw the error of their ways and ditched the "better more social" comment system and went back to the good old one, and all the old comments came back with it.

So it's possible you just happened to look at that time.

[MFX]

Might be a false alarm but :-

" exponentialdevelopme said 12 hours ago

I’ve been asking for a refund for the last month – no response!"

Wonder if this is the beginning of the end?

Martin.

[CanadianAvenger]

Looks like the guy that complained about the lack of a refund has been contacted... but there has been no update now publicly for the past 2 Mondays, so who knows what's going on?  Have we reached the end-game? Will the excuse be that too many people pulled out, and now they can't finish due to a lack of funds?

[MFX]

I don't know what the end game will be but I'll get some popcorn in. Someone has just thrown in the spanner about legal restrictions of exporting thermal imaging kit from the USA. BTW slight tangent, was watching a search and rescue documentary last night and the resolution of their imagers is pretty incredibly, anyone know what the actual resolution of that sort of kit is and what price it runs at?

Martin.

[tom66]

I have heard of 800x600 thermal sensors... If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

[Fraser]

In the UK they used 320x240 FLIR kit but I believe 640x480 is now employed. The image produced is very dependant upon the thermal detectors noise contribution, and the performance of the image processing HW+FW package attached to it. All such high resolution, fast image refresh TICs are subject to military control for obvious reasons. Sadly you will not find such performance in a Commercial Fluke unit any time soon. My AGEMA/FLIR 570 produces a decent thermal image at 320x240 but it is a first generation uncooled micro-bolometer so noise is presented on the output image as a sort of graininess. Later versions have superior detectors and image processing. My FLIR 570 sells for around US$6000 to $10000 (depending upon condition and accessories) on the used market. It is a US DoD controlled product. You can't (shouldn't) just buy such a unit and have it shipped overseas.

[cyr]

I have used a 1280x1024 thermal imager, although that apparently used a 640x480 sensor that was mechanically "scanned" by half-pixels to get the full resolution.

I've also seen images from a 1080p IR sensor, seriously impressive! 

And no, I didn't ask about the price of either