Mµ Thermal Imager - real or fake?

[Corporate666]

I don't know what the end game will be but I'll get some popcorn in. Someone has just thrown in the spanner about legal restrictions of exporting thermal imaging kit from the USA. BTW slight tangent, was watching a search and rescue documentary last night and the resolution of their imagers is pretty incredibly, anyone know what the actual resolution of that sort of kit is and what price it runs at?

Martin.

During the extreme heroism of the Boston police department and various Federal agencies in catching two of the worst people since Hitler and Stalin  , they talked a bit about the FLIR camera.  They said it was 640x480 (or maybe 800x600?) and that the unit cost around $100k.  It was also sensitive to a wide range of IR which allowed it to see through thin plastic.

[tim_h]

Hi all, just registered to let you know I was a funder on the Indigogo campaign, but having got frustrated at the lack of transparency and longer and longer delays between "weekly" updates I decided to pull the plug and request a refund. I emailed marcus@muoptics.com and had a reply within a few hours. The paypal refund was then sent to me a couple of days later.
Marcus and John made no attempt to talk me out of the refund, nor ask why I wanted one. Just a short note from John on the paypal refund thanking me for the initial interest in the project.

[iloveelectronics]

What's everyone's opinion on the Fluke VT02? http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/thermometers/infrared-thermometers/vt02-visual-ir-thermometer.htm?pid=75051

[EEVblog]

What's everyone's opinion on the Fluke VT02? http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/thermometers/infrared-thermometers/vt02-visual-ir-thermometer.htm?pid=75051

It's garbage!
I expected it to be good, but was dumbstruck by how much it's image performance sucked.
I tweeted some photos in comparison with a Flir i3




Basically, it is NOT a proper thermal imaging camera. Compare with the rather small 60x60 sensor in the Flir i3 and there is simply no contest. The Fluke just shows a blob for everything, no detail at all.
The price difference between the two is only a few hundred dollars, so IME the Fluke is massively overpriced for what it does. Compared to a Flir i3 it looks like a toy.

[iloveelectronics]

Thanks for the pictures Dave! We don't see you put "Fluke" and "sucked" in the same sentence very often 

[rolycat]

Fluke are very coy about the resolution of the VT02 sensor, but DeWalt have a very similar "Imaging Thermometer" with a 15 by 15 sensor. If this is also true of the Fluke, then the Flir i3 offers sixteen times the resolution for an extra $300 or so.

No wonder the Fluke specs don't mention that little detail...

[EEVblog]

Thanks for the pictures Dave! We don't see you put "Fluke" and "sucked" in the same sentence very often 

Yes, they are clearly playing off their brand name here.
I was quite shocked, it looked good in the blurb and I expected it to be pretty wizz bang.
It might suit some peoples needs, but most would be crazy not to pay a few hundred more for the Flir.
It's actually not fair to compare the two, because the Fluke is clearly not a "thermal imager". But the price is close enough it's impossible not to.

[EEVblog]

Fluke are very coy about the resolution of the VT02 sensor, but DeWalt have a very similar "Imaging Thermometer" with a 15 by 15 sensor.

There is too much similarity there.
Although they do say "Utilizes pyro-electric technology, exclusive to Fluke".
 

[rolycat]

Fluke are very coy about the resolution of the VT02 sensor, but DeWalt have a very similar "Imaging Thermometer" with a 15 by 15 sensor.

There is too much similarity there.
Although they do say "Utilizes pyro-electric technology, exclusive to Fluke".
 

I've just found this link http://instrotech.com/fluke-vt02-p-2091.html which explicitly states that:

"Whilst this is not a thermal imaging camera, the VT02 does feature a 15 x 15 pixel thermal detector."

Perhaps it's a little harsh to call it garbage, as it does offer (grotty) thermal images blended with a higher resolution conventional camera. If you are just looking for hotspots in equipment, that may be all you need.

The Chinese clone for a third of the price will probably sell like hotcakes...

[MFX]

Yes, they are clearly playing off their brand name here.

Nothing new for fluke, while the price for the actual kit may be acceptable given the quality, the price of many accessories is an obscene rip off! You can buy a Velleman pocket scope with the exact same probes that Fluke supply for their scope meters (all be it Fluke badged) for less than Fluke charge for a set of probes alone.

Martin.

[thermalguy]

Ran across the Mu Optics facebook page. Is this old news for this group?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mu-Optics/274122436049948

This is a post from the page...

"Hey everyone, we're thinking of getting the prototype up and running again to shoot some new videos. Anyone have any suggestions? I thought I might walk around the zoo and see if I can find everything I've missed in the past. And to see what the difference is between a cold blooded animal and a warm blooded one. Anyone have any odd or challenging ideas?"

Sounds like they had a prototype running.

[MFX]

If they had a prototype running then why haven't they been able to show ANY evidence of at at all.

Martin.

[thermalguy]

If they had a prototype running then why haven't they been able to show ANY evidence of at at all.

Martin.

I agree! I am just saying at one point it appears they had a prototype running. So amid all the chip changing and usb/wifi dicussions they could go back to that prototype and show a black box connected to a phone making pretty pictures.

[MacAttak]

At one point they alluded to having a prototype at some point in time prior to then. That post to Facebook was also made while the fundraising campaign was still underway.

They don't even state that the prototype is of the thermal camera they claim to be making.

I think that post is nothing more than an exaggerated claim (or perhaps outright lie) made in effort to attract more financial backing.

[CanadianAvenger]

I agree! I am just saying at one point it appears they had a prototype running. So amid all the chip changing and usb/wifi dicussions they could go back to that prototype and show a black box connected to a phone making pretty pictures.

They never had a prototype, what they had was a commercial camera from another vendor. [note the resolution of all the posted images is quite a bit higher than the specs for the Mu camera] It is outright deliberate deception in my opinion. [there was a comment on IGG where they admitted that the sample imagery was from an off the shelf camera, unfortunately IGG only maintains/exposes a 30day history of comments, so it has long since rolled off]

[MFX]

Latest update :-

"Hello All,

Sorry for the delayed update again, it’s been a very busy week here. We received new case models, and have been discussing slight changes now that we’ve actually been able to hold the new models with the new materials. We’re looking at ways to cut down the size a little and make it as comfortable to hold as possible. We are aiming to make it feel like you’re holding a point-and-shoot digital camera. We ordered a new reflow soldering oven for our new proto-boards, but unfortunately that oven was apparently damaged in shipping, so they’re sending us a new one which I hope will be here in the next few days. This board should hopefully be the last one that we use to tweak the system, and then we will be able to retool for the new case. These next few weeks are really looking like the end run for design. (At least that’s our hope, if everything comes together)."

So the ergonomics are their only problem at the moment, yet they still can't post a picture of it working. "retool for the new case" WTF! they've already shelled out for tooling and are now retooling?!?!?! Surely you 3D print the prototypes then only shell out for tooling once you've signed off on it. Then of course they still (if they're not lying through their teeth , which of course they are) There's still the slight issue of manufacture which they seem to think is going to be a walk in the park. What planet are these people on! Basically more bullshit delaying tactics, wonder how much longer they can string this out.

[c4757p]

...Jesus Christ this is a long thread. 

[MFX]

It's a geek soap opera.

Martin.

[mikeselectricstuff]

waffle waffle waffle - same old lies.... I really don't understand why they are continuing to string it out - they have the money, they're not going to get any more, no sign of any chance of ever shipping anything... 'spose it maybe adds credibility to a possible claim that they were trying to deliver something...

[Hypernova]

waffle waffle waffle - same old lies.... I really don't understand why they are continuing to string it out - they have the money, they're not going to get any more, no sign of any chance of ever shipping anything... 'spose it maybe adds credibility to a possible claim that they were trying to deliver something...

They need an excuse for this one so they don't get caught (immediately anyway) when they start their next scam.

[MacAttak]

Apparently the IR-Blue is actually shipping to backers: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyrawson/ir-blue-thermal-imaging-smartphone-accessory/posts/502053

That might mean that there is a shred of possibility of mu optics pulling through (however, very unlikely).

It also might mean increased hope / interest in mu optics from people who think "oh, the IR-Blue was able to be done for under $200, so the mu thermal should be fine." Even though these are vastly different, both in terms of features/specs as well as transparency of the project management.

[CanadianAvenger]

Mu will never deliver at that price point. The thermal array alone will cost more than what they are charging. 

IR-Blue also had a working prototype going in, unlike Mu. I would not infer any possibility for Mu to deliver, just because IR-Blue did. Other than being thermal imaging cameras that work with smart-phones there is no similarity between the two campaigns.

[EEVblog]

Sorry for the delayed update again, it’s been a very busy week here. We received new case models, and have been discussing slight changes now that we’ve actually been able to hold the new models with the new materials. We’re looking at ways to cut down the size a little and make it as comfortable to hold as possible. We are aiming to make it feel like you’re holding a point-and-shoot digital camera. We ordered a new reflow soldering oven for our new proto-boards, but unfortunately that oven was apparently damaged in shipping, so they’re sending us a new one which I hope will be here in the next few days. This board should hopefully be the last one that we use to tweak the system, and then we will be able to retool for the new case. These next few weeks are really looking like the end run for design. (At least that’s our hope, if everything comes together)."

Wow, this week it's SMD ovens!
Their prototype is the Loch Ness monster of the crowd source industry!
Except that there are alleged photos of Nessie 

[CanadianAvenger]

Well John does run a Visual FX company, perhaps he's responsible for Nessie too!

This week it's the oven, next week it'll be the watercooler, or coffee machine. How many times can his dog eat his homework?

[Corporate666]

These guys can't help stepping on rakes!

They have a prototype that they refuse to show, they are some weeks behind their promised delivery date, they have people asking for refunds daily, they continually miss their update deadline, and their belated update is about changing the form factor of the device to make it smaller and more "ergonomic" (which will mean major changes to the internals), and the latest setback is the reflow oven they ordered was broken?

My god... is there anyone here actually invested (still) in this turd?