EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

Onlooker has a great point. Lets do the math:

I would estimate as follows for brand name AA.

(SOC = state of charge)

At 50% SOC

V= 1.4, Battery ESR = 0.3 Ohms

Maximum Power Theorem, gives max power in load as

(V/2)² / ESR = 1.6W

If you allow a conversion efficiency of 85% in the Batteriser

Max current at 50% SOC is 1.6W x 0.85/1.5V = 0.9A


At 20% SOC

V= 1V, ESR =0.6 Ohm

(V/2)² / ESR = 0.42W

If you allow a conversion efficiency of 85% in the Batteriser

Max current at 50% SOC is 0.42W x 0.85/1.5V = 0.24A


Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B

[Rasz]

It is quite surprising that, with all the credentials of the batteriser guys, their EE knowledge are dubious for that they can't, at least in theory, properly argue the roll of internal resistance

For all we know the main fraudster could of been thrown out of Broadcom when they started getting ready for the merger and someone with a clue finally had a talk with him.

I just checked on their PSU "debunking" video, 1140 thumbs down 

1,141 now...

better to click more / report / spam or misleading / report as SCAM

[ccs46]

Enough words Bob. If your theory is proven in practice, just send one unit to Dave (or any other reliable person) and lets verify it! Or... you could start by putting Batteriser into that clapping monkey after batteries have run out. It should keep on clapping 8 times longer than the initial stage without batteriser... right?

Axel.

(and yes... this comment was deliberately pointed to Bob using EEVblog forum)

I bet they would put brand new batteries in.

[LabSpokane]

Good Morning Dr. Roohparvar!

I am so sorry to hear that your retail channels have abandoned you at this critical juncture.

Now, regarding your apparent transformation into a DOD supplier, we'll need to do a little brushing up on your Latin vocabulary. There are two words that will be critical to your future:

Qui Tam

You should talk long and hard with your attorney before selling a product to the U.S. Government with the claims you are making. You might be very unhappy with the outcome.

[Smokey]

Maker of Useless Dowsing Rod for Bombs Convicted for Fraud

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/04/29/dowsing_for_bombs_maker_of_useless_bomb_detectors_convicted_of_fraud.html

[AccountRemovedPerUsersRequest]

Enough words Bob. If your theory is proven in practice, just send one unit to Dave (or any other reliable person) and lets verify it! Or... you could start by putting Batteriser into that clapping monkey after batteries have run out. It should keep on clapping 8 times longer than the initial stage without batteriser... right?

I bet they would put brand new batteries in.

Yep, or some other trick IMHO.
Anyhow, even if this debate is fun to follow, I would like to see some actual evidences already. Bob, if you were able to bend physical laws by creating such device, prove it. And... by proving I mean demovideo with and without Batteriser. Not verbal slideshow or twin girls rapping on video or anything braindead like that. Clapping monkey with and without Batteriser is my request.

As my honest personal opinion, that video would be shown many times already if it really works. After 5 years of development they must have quite many prototypes already.

This is either a hoax or "N Ray" effect. Sorry investors...

Axel.

[AmmoJammo]

Something I've only just realised...

They're flogging these off as being for AAA, AA, C and D cells.... but have only ever shown the AA version in use...

The problem here, is that a AAA battery has about half the area available for a boost regulator, compared to a AA...

There is no chance of fitting a boost regulator on the top of a AAA cell, and yet, they've been selling AAA butterisers 

[EEVblog]

The problem here, is that a AAA battery has about half the area available for a boost regulator, compared to a AA...
There is no chance of fitting a boost regulator on the top of a AAA cell, and yet, they've been selling AAA butterisers 

I've been wondering that too, but have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
The issue is that unless all the specs are designed around the AAA physical build size, and that's unlikely given the lack of prototypes, the AA version will have better performance. They aren't telling you what the performance of each size device is.

[Stephan_T]

They're two very easy, obvious tests. Either one of them will go a long way towards silencing every critic on the planet.

Because that's impossible...

Can you imagine how dangerous a Monkey at 800% will be? 

[AmmoJammo]

One device I looked at, had about 0.25mm clearance above the AAA cells...

How many devices will the butteriser not even physically fit in?

What's the physically smallest 1.5 amp inductor available? Or even 500ma for that matter?

[LabSpokane]

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the Batteriser on a miniaturization argument. Even if these guys don't have the skills personally, they surely know people who do. 

[meeder]

One device I looked at, had about 0.25mm clearance above the AAA cells...

How many devices will the butteriser not even physically fit in?

What's the physically smallest 1.5 amp inductor available? Or even 500ma for that matter?

In my Garmin GPSmap 62st it is already a tight fit with normal AA's so adding the batteriser will probably cause problems.
I even had trouble fitting some NiMH batteries because they tend to be slightly longer, Eneloops just fit in it without any room to spare.

[AmmoJammo]

One device I looked at, had about 0.25mm clearance above the AAA cells...

How many devices will the butteriser not even physically fit in?

What's the physically smallest 1.5 amp inductor available? Or even 500ma for that matter?

In my Garmin GPSmap 62st it is already a tight fit with normal AA's so adding the batteriser will probably cause problems.
I even had trouble fitting some NiMH batteries because they tend to be slightly longer, Eneloops just fit in it without any room to spare.

Perhaps this is why they tested their GPS, with the batteries in a holder... claiming it was to measure current (which wasn't needing, and was basically a pointless measurement) and voltage, but then never even posting the voltage results...

[meeder]

I am going to do a quick check with batteries to see when my Garmin cuts out. I don't have a accurate power supply so I can't test it like that.
It normally runs for 15 to 20 hours on NiMH's.

[EEVblog]

A reddit thread on the GPS test:
https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/3gygee/batteriser_5x_longer_life_than_normal_batteries/

[AmmoJammo]

A reddit thread on the GPS test:
https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/3gygee/batteriser_5x_longer_life_than_normal_batteries/

hah, I suspected the message was something along those lines, but couldn't find any reference to it online.

They should start a kickstarter campaign to buy themselves a shovel...

[Fungus]

Oh, I hadn't seen that one.

It actually says something about "NiMH" on screen when their GPS dies. Look in the video at 1:10.

Does anybody own the GPS unit to see the complete message?

[AmmoJammo]

It says "Use rechargable Nimh or *****? batteries to prevent this limitation"

I have no clue what the first few lines say though.

[firewalker]

This seem to confirm that the GPS is set to the alkaline option. Also it shows that it was just an info message, and they should continue the "experiment".

Alexander.

[AmmoJammo]

This seem to confirm that the GPS is set to the alkaline option. Also it shows that it was just an info message, and they should continue the "experiment".

Alexander.

I do believe you're right... and when the battery voltage was artificially boosted, the info message simply never appeared as the gps wasn't monitoring the actual battery voltage 

[firewalker]

The software detected a "stupid" user that was continuously touching the screen and notified him. I doubt that the message came up for first time after two hours...

Alexander.

[Fungus]

The software detected a "stupid" user that was continuously touching the screen and notified him. I doubt that the message came up for first time after two hours...

So is that why they went to all the trouble of building a finger instead of just going to the menu and selecting "don't sleep".   

[AmmoJammo]

"The data shows that the gps will stop functioning after one hour and 52 minutes, and the screen dims to dark"

That isn't them saying the batteries are flat....

[rollatorwieltje]

http://forums.mtbr.com/gps-hrm-bike-computer/rechargeable-batteries-will-keep-my-oregons-screen-bright-681088.html

In the settings menu switch the battery type to Ni-mh. If you have it set for Alkaline the screen will dim when battery level reaches a certain point. As long as you have it set to Ni-mh the screen will stay bright until the batteries' bitter end, even if you are using alkalines.

The Oregon is a slightly bigger version of this thing.
So apparently in order to get the most use out of alkalines the device actually limits the brightness of the screen. That also explains why it crapped out at about 10 hours with Batteriser installed, Garmin figured the device wouldn't come near the advertised operating time with alkalines.  This also proves the device was also set to alkaline mode. So another fabricated piece of bullshit by Batteriser, the device never stopped working, just the screen dimmed, completely as designed.

[firewalker]

This totally makes sense.

Alexander.