Author Topic: I tried a Mac for video editing...  (Read 172574 times)

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Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #450 on: May 03, 2013, 03:06:47 am »
wait for it, 342 MH/s on my 7850 OC'd to 1170/1320 Can't do anymore RAM or i would BSOD  :scared:

That's why you replace resistors with trim pots :P
 

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #451 on: May 03, 2013, 06:41:19 am »
Can you borrow bitcoins with nerd credits? It's like street cred but for nerds,

Example:

Daves video blog site is pretty popular with nerds thus he would have a higher nerd cred rating, so he could borrow more bit coins at a lower interest rate
Just so you know bitcoins are used for the black market ... like drugs and gambling ...

wait for it, 342 MH/s on my 7850 OC'd to 1170/1320 Can't do anymore RAM or i would BSOD  :scared:

That's why you replace resistors with trim pots :P
Voltmod?  :P But 1320 is already more than enough for a mid-range GPU because it's a 256-bit bus
1170 will crash @ max 1.225V on OCCT and 1160 won't make it through BC2 but 1160 works for other games  :-//
 

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #452 on: May 03, 2013, 03:28:43 pm »
::) Gasp.....I didn't know that, so when you borrow some and don't pay up a nerd comes and breaks your fingers? That doesn't make much sense.  ;D

Well......not everyone is using them for illegal extracurricular activities:

http://www.10news.com/news/worlds-first-bitcoin-atm-coming-to-san-diego-050213
I don't know man ... you just convert your bitcoins to money on a "ewallet" although sometimes i find bitcoin mining ... a bit of a waste
I only earn 0.02 per day (and i have to keep on restarting whenever i find a new block ...) and that 0.02 is roughly about 2USD only
Considering i am actually drawing 150W (Or maybe more ... because it's OC'd) and electricity tariff is 0.2USD/1kwhr i will earn roughly (3.6*0.2 - 2) $1.28 per day ... and that's not counting the fact that it might draw more power actually or my CPU ... at 5W. (Idle is 0.8W though) and my motherboard TDP ... easily 20-30W ...  :palm:
Mining with a 7950 brings more bang for buck but i'm not interested ... i can earn WAY more from my part-time job or simply my allowances  :palm:
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #453 on: May 03, 2013, 03:53:39 pm »
Kids, there are TONS of general PC related forums out there like TomsHardware, AnandTech, ArsTechnica, HardOCP etc to brag discuss about general PC related topic, yes, just in case you're not aware, that include GFX, PSU, mobo, cpu, overclocking, heatsink, tweaking, modding, bitcoin, warez, kewl & leet thingy bla..bla.. and etc.  :palm:

Its really annoying that one has to skip thru tons of these non related PC junk posts in this thread just to watch, follow closely or help/contribute on Dave's "related" problem.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 04:26:24 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline 4to20Milliamps

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #454 on: May 04, 2013, 01:39:46 am »
Kids, there are TONS of general PC related forums out there like TomsHardware, AnandTech, ArsTechnica, HardOCP etc to brag discuss about general PC related topic, yes, just in case you're not aware, that include GFX, PSU, mobo, cpu, overclocking, heatsink, tweaking, modding, bitcoin, warez, kewl & leet thingy bla..bla.. and etc.  :palm:

Its really annoying that one has to skip thru tons of these non related PC junk posts in this thread just to watch, follow closely or help/contribute on Dave's "related" problem.


 ::) Somebody didn't read the description of this category "occasional off topic is o.k."

Sorry your grace......it won't happen again  ;D


anyway the bottleneck is the software in my opinion, so an option like a frame server may help out:

http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/

I used to be into video stuff years ago not so much now, so I will leave it to the experts from here  ;)
 

Offline Zad

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #455 on: May 06, 2013, 03:00:10 pm »
For anyone looking at buying a new machine (or CPU) be aware that the next generation of Intel processors will be launched on June 3rd.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/54653-intel-haswell-cpus-officially-launched-3rd-june/

Even if you aren't interested in the new processors (which will inevitably be at a price premium to start with) then the prices of existing units will immediately drop to make way for the new hardware. Intel seem to be pushing the reduced power consumption aspect, but in the past this has generally meant they are very good to overclock. They are still flogging the old "no, honestly, our integrated graphics are as fast as a separate card" dead horse.

According to the graphic, it has faster QuickSync , JPEG/MPEG decode and OpenCL1.2. leveraged through the integrated graphics system.



ETA: Want to see some cringe-inducing audiophool stuff?

http://hexus.net/tech/news/mainboard/54905-gigabytes-haswell-motherboards-feature-amp-up-audio/

Quote
If you look at the motherboard layouts you will observe that the audio functionality has been “fenced off” by a vivid green line (lit up when powered up) as if to emphasise its separation, a kind of PCB quiet-zone. Gigabyte describes it as the “Audio Noise Guard – with path lighting”.

Yes, because when I want the best in audio quality, I put my expensive and sensitive analogue components right next to a wideband RF noise source, and then light it with a magic force field (what seems to be) EL cable. Expect to see a flood of fake OPA627s on Ebay in the next few months...

« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 03:16:51 pm by Zad »
 

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #456 on: May 06, 2013, 05:01:23 pm »
There has always been a flood of fake OPA627s all this while  ;) And also BIOSTAR's Puro HiFi cringe inducing stuff
they are not alone ...
 

Offline elgonzo

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #457 on: May 06, 2013, 05:08:21 pm »
ETA: Want to see some cringe-inducing audiophool stuff?

http://hexus.net/tech/news/mainboard/54905-gigabytes-haswell-motherboards-feature-amp-up-audio/

I have to disappoint you. That's not audiophilool stuff, but gamer sh*t.
(I am not saying that there is much of a difference between the audiophool and gamer markets, except the lore perhaps...)
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #458 on: May 07, 2013, 12:58:09 am »
ETA: Want to see some cringe-inducing audiophool stuff?

http://hexus.net/tech/news/mainboard/54905-gigabytes-haswell-motherboards-feature-amp-up-audio/

Quote
If you look at the motherboard layouts you will observe that the audio functionality has been “fenced off” by a vivid green line (lit up when powered up) as if to emphasise its separation, a kind of PCB quiet-zone. Gigabyte describes it as the “Audio Noise Guard – with path lighting”.

Yes, because when I want the best in audio quality, I put my expensive and sensitive analogue components right next to a wideband RF noise source, and then light it with a magic force field (what seems to be) EL cable. Expect to see a flood of fake OPA627s on Ebay in the next few months...
It makes basically no difference with digital, which is just data anyways. (It is possible for a copper cable to conduct EMI, but that's rarely a problem. And fiber eliminates that problem.) As for the analog stuff, DSOs seem to have no problem with digital logic on the same board as the input amplifiers.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline Zad

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #459 on: May 07, 2013, 02:10:04 am »
I'm sure you have seen all the screening, shielding and guard planes / traces that DSOs have, they also put the most sensitive parts as far as possible from the noise sources. Very little of that evident on the motherboard.

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #460 on: May 10, 2013, 07:31:39 pm »
I'm sure you have seen all the screening, shielding and guard planes / traces that DSOs have, they also put the most sensitive parts as far as possible from the noise sources. Very little of that evident on the motherboard.
But somehow most motherboards do fine  :) It's just typical PC market bullshit to sell more ... Like painting the caps  :-// Or putting in real high-grade stuff on MSI cheap arse motherboards making them look really premium
I mean c'mon which speaker in the world will allow you to notice 100db SNR? I don't think any can do so. And 100db is easily achievable on modern soundchips like ALC892 898 and older ALC898
They really don't have a problem with wideband EMI even if their audio input output is routed all the way to the bottom  :-// (or earlier motherboards right next to the northbridge ... which is transmitting to the CPU via a 3.2GHz link)
Look at the layout of my motherboard ... it's as f'ed up as possible. And there are the super cramped ones

and look at a modern high-end motherboard
http://assets.vr-zone.net/15206/x79_extreme11.jpg
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #461 on: May 11, 2013, 11:20:04 pm »
Look at the layout of my motherboard ... it's as f'ed up as possible. And there are the super cramped ones

You get that when you have fixed defined industry form factor but a continual change in requirements components and feature sets.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #462 on: May 13, 2013, 02:15:03 pm »
Look at the layout of my motherboard ... it's as f'ed up as possible. And there are the super cramped ones

You get that when you have fixed defined industry form factor but a continual change in requirements components and feature sets.

Agreed  :)
 

Offline M. András

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #463 on: May 13, 2013, 09:08:50 pm »
they definetly need to bring out a new and much bigger form factor for pc motherboards. and pls no traces at mounting holes around 5mm radius.....
 

Offline gnif

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #464 on: May 14, 2013, 12:20:40 am »
Don't think so, a video of this size can be written in 1-2s by a modern HDD. So give it some additional seconds for seeks, and you're still on the safe side.

This is just a test video - I assume the videos Dave would actually be encoding would be much much larger - which is what I was referring to.

This has nothing to do with the final file size, it is to do with the write data rate. A modern decent mechanical HDD is able to write at around 110MB/s, and the transfer to the disk is handled by DMA, so it is completely offloaded from the CPU, using a SSD, or even a RAID0 SSD array would only help on the load/read stage during video editing, not encoding. What would be more beneficial here would be loads of RAM, talking 8GB+.

Also, setting up a RAID0 anything array is just asking for trouble, loose one disk and you loose everything, if you want to go down this path get an additional disk and setup RAID5 (Stripe with parity), or for better performance with redundancy go for RAID10 (that is RAID1 + RAID0, so clone & stripe). If you are using SSDs in a RAID array and really do need that kind of performance, get a real RAID card, do not use your so called 'RAID' function of your motherboard, as it is software RAID and is all done on the CPU.

Honestly though, those that need striped SSDs are just kidding themselves, I work in the hosting industry and we only every deploy these configurations to servers where they have 100GB+ databases and enormous I/O on them, which you never see in your day to day usage on your desktop computer, and even then we usually opt for more RAM first (32GB or more) so we can cache everything we can as RAM is loads faster.

Here is a cost estimation for a RAID6 array:

120GB SSD = ~$300
6Gb/s RAID Controller = ~$200
Total = ~$500

And cost estimation for a stack of RAM which is hundreds of times faster then any SSD:

32GB DDR3 RAM = ~$250-$300

But... Don't get me wrong here, I love SSDs and I use them in my Desktop and Laptop and would never go back to a mechanical HDD for my OS disk, and I would love a RAID10 SSD array, but the amount of times that I would actually use it to its full potential would be very very rare, and shaving 500ms off a disk wide search for a file just is not worth the cost.

Also, I often grep enormous directories with tens of thousands of files that contain projects such as XBMC or Openbricks which contains the linux kernel source + every source file you could need for a basic GNU system and find it only takes a few seconds on a single standard SSD, I do not see RAID giving me enough of a performance boost here to warrant the cost.
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #465 on: May 14, 2013, 09:55:35 am »
Quote
get an additional disk and setup RAID5

RAID5 is slightly out of favour in the enterprise space at present.

One factor is that arrays are usually set up with disks bought at the same time and all of the same manufacturer - which means a high probablility of being from the same batch (I've managed to buy a set of disks with consecutive serial numbers before now) - so it is quite likely that they will fail together.

RAID6 can survive 2 failed disks.

I've had two failures on RAID5 arrays on my home server. The first time the array ran fine in degraded mode for the week that it took the manufacturer to send me a replacement disk.

The second time the array also ran fine while I sourced a replacement for the (just out ofwarranty :( ) disk. Unfortunately I then had a SATA port fail while the array was rebuilding which corrupted one of the other disks - all data lost  |O

Fortunately I had backups but I've stopped using RAID5 and now just use mirrored pairs (or even triples) - I reckon that RAID5 is just too fragile when degraded (it basically degenerates to RAID0).
 

Offline gnif

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #466 on: May 14, 2013, 02:29:52 pm »
Quote
get an additional disk and setup RAID5

RAID5 is slightly out of favour in the enterprise space at present.


Completely agree with you there, but here RAID0 was suggested with zero redundancy which many people do not think about how dangerous that is to your data, so for cost vs performance, IMO RAID5 is a good middle ground for a desktop PC where the data is not absolutely mission critical, and I would never deploy anything less than RAID10 in an enterprise environment.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #467 on: May 17, 2013, 09:27:30 am »
This has nothing to do with the final file size, it is to do with the write data rate. A modern decent mechanical HDD is able to write at around 110MB/s, and the transfer to the disk is handled by DMA, so it is completely offloaded from the CPU, using a SSD, or even a RAID0 SSD array would only help on the load/read stage during video editing, not encoding. What would be more beneficial here would be loads of RAM, talking 8GB+.
And cost estimation for a stack of RAM which is hundreds of times faster then any SSD:

32GB DDR3 RAM = ~$250-$300

But... Don't get me wrong here, I love SSDs and I use them in my Desktop and Laptop and would never go back to a mechanical HDD for my OS disk, and I would love a RAID10 SSD array, but the amount of times that I would actually use it to its full potential would be very very rare, and shaving 500ms off a disk wide search for a file just is not worth the cost.

Also, I often grep enormous directories with tens of thousands of files that contain projects such as XBMC or Openbricks which contains the linux kernel source + every source file you could need for a basic GNU system and find it only takes a few seconds on a single standard SSD, I do not see RAID giving me enough of a performance boost here to warrant the cost.
110MBPS ... How 2008 is that. My cheap Hitachi 1TB drives do 200mbps. YES 200MBPS! I have several of them in RAID6 on my file server (and a few 3TB drives)
Extra RAM is useless if you don't use it. If you're thinking of RAMDrives they're bloody ridiculous. Extended shutdown times and the risk of files going corrupt (No ECC!)
Okay there ... SSDs makes a significant boost in loading time unless your SSD is from 2009 :-// The time shaven is actually HUGE as on a harddisk the OS would have to wait every access time cycle before it can search for another file (and it's in the region of 20mS) and it still takes a bloody long time even with search indexing. I'm sorry i turned off my search indexing on my SSD and i still find files within split seconds
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #468 on: May 17, 2013, 09:32:17 am »
I still need to do a video on this, but FYI, my new machines screams.
Boot time is incredibly quick with the SSD for the Windows boot partition, and rendering in Sony to XDCAM format is about 3 times real-time. So a 30min video in 10min. A 3 fold increase in speed.
Handbrake conversion is about double, at about 2.5 times real-time.
I decided to have a 2nd internal backup drive instead of a software RAID. Set to differential update copy every night. Less chance of any accidental deletion propagating over.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #469 on: May 17, 2013, 03:26:50 pm »
110MBPS ... How 2008 is that. My cheap Hitachi 1TB drives do 200mbps. YES 200MBPS! I have several of them in RAID6 on my file server (and a few 3TB drives)

I really doubt you get that out of a single drive, and you really want to watch your capitalisation. It matters, put a little effort into it.

Quote
Extra RAM is useless if you don't use it.

You always use it.

Quote
20mS

*cough*
 

Offline T4P

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #470 on: May 18, 2013, 05:00:36 am »
Oops i forget. Sometimes. But it IS in megabytes per sec. MBPS < isn't it? And yes i AM getting it out of a single drive

Don't worry about the periodic dips, it's due to it being accessed
 

Offline elgonzo

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #471 on: May 18, 2013, 07:08:03 pm »
110MBPS ... How 2008 is that. My cheap Hitachi 1TB drives do 200mbps. YES 200MBPS! I have several of them in RAID6 on my file server (and a few 3TB drives)

I really doubt you get that out of a single drive, and you really want to watch your capitalisation. It matters, put a little effort into it.


T4P is right with this one. Seagate specifies for the 7200rpm Barracuda consumder HDDs already a sustained data rate of 210 MB/s. Which actually sounds quite amazing, until you are reminded of access times. It's always access times that kill HDD performance.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #472 on: May 18, 2013, 08:26:21 pm »
110MBPS ... How 2008 is that. My cheap Hitachi 1TB drives do 200mbps. YES 200MBPS! I have several of them in RAID6 on my file server (and a few 3TB drives)

I really doubt you get that out of a single drive, and you really want to watch your capitalisation. It matters, put a little effort into it.


T4P is right with this one. Seagate specifies for the 7200rpm Barracuda consumder HDDs already a sustained data rate of 210 MB/s. Which actually sounds quite amazing, until you are reminded of access times. It's always access times that kill HDD performance.

Sustained data rate is totally useless in reality anyway (not to mention regularly exaggerated), so..
 

Offline elgonzo

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #473 on: May 18, 2013, 08:54:51 pm »
Sustained data rate is totally useless in reality anyway (not to mention regularly exaggerated), so..

No, those numbers are not regularly exaggerated. Yes, this number is totally useless to judge performance of a HDD. :)
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: I tried a Mac for video editing...
« Reply #474 on: May 18, 2013, 09:00:37 pm »
Sustained data rate is totally useless in reality anyway (not to mention regularly exaggerated), so..

No, those numbers are not regularly exaggerated. Yes, this number is totally useless to judge performance of a HDD. :)

I have never been able to sustain the published rate for any model of HDD. Always 10-15% lower. Seagate ones I've seen 60% down (they've had some horrific firmware, there's a reason I won't buy them).
 


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