Author Topic: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA  (Read 27028 times)

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Offline ez24

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2015, 08:54:14 am »
Seems the Canadian warning was off subject (but true).  But there have been a lot of stories like this in the US and as a US citizen, when I carry cash, I am more afraid of the police than thieves (and if you think about it, a thief is more honest).  If you say "yes" to a search and they find cash - they own it not you.  After all they like electronic toys just as much as you do.

So to get back on topic, EEs who earn a lot in the US, be careful when carrying cash that you earn.  ALWAYS check your tail lights and signal when changing lanes. (and save some for those traffic stops)

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Offline zapta

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2015, 09:41:49 am »
So to get back on topic, EEs who earn a lot in the US, be careful when carrying cash that you earn.  ALWAYS check your tail lights and signal when changing lanes. (and save some for those traffic stops)

I had my share of traffic tickets over the years but the police never tried to search my car or on me. I must say they were always polite.
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Offline ez24

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2015, 11:57:04 am »
Quote
I must say they were always polite.
  I live in San Diego and have always had the same experience.  I just do not have enough money  :-DD  My problem is I think they may take my car away from me as not being road worthy.  Seems everything on it is broken, I have to shout to them because the windows do not go down.  I need to stop this hobby and get my windows fixed.  Umm I wonder if anyone here knows how to fix electric car windows?
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Online Circlotron

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2015, 01:14:07 pm »

Tax wedge by country:

Tax rates = welfare rates = rate of invasion by illegal immigrants.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2015, 05:16:54 pm »
I tried to find the wedge chart and found this one.

England is going down and Iceland going up ?  See what your country is doing.  Mine is going up.

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Offline TheElectricChicken

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2015, 09:04:15 pm »
The charts don't include countries where there is no income tax at all, like indonesia for example. That place is a paradise for business as there is NO paperwork or council regulations to stop you. You just set up a shop and that's that. Nobody tells you not to.
 

Offline SteveC

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2015, 08:36:04 am »

There also seems to be scope for self-taught entrants to the field who can specialize in narrow areas without necessarily going through broad professional training and potentially needing to satisfy professional registration requirements.

Same in Aus.  When I was a computer service engineer, our management claimed they could take someone off the street and train them in a few weeks.  Having spent 10 years gaining my quals, I was not impressed.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2015, 08:42:14 am »
[Same in Aus.  When I was a computer service engineer, our management claimed they could take someone off the street and train them in a few weeks. 

We also have here a street like that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Loop_(street)
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Offline vodka

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2015, 03:01:48 am »
Spikee  don't complain too , that it could be worse. Here in Spain  for 40k€ per year ,you would pay from  taxes a 40%, besides  paying a 20% for the money that you have saved in the bank ,more the immovable property tax and others taxes. On resume , the table graphic posted by you ,it is wrong .

And here the Engineerer and the Technical Engineerer salaries per  year are 12k - 24k per year, and the recent graduated are worse : jobless or perpetual scholarship (when the maxim time allowed from scholarship is the 2 years )

 

Offline Dago

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2015, 04:05:16 pm »
Wages in other European countries seem quite comparable to Finland. With a quick look the average for an electronics designer (first website I checked, but sounds about right) is around 41 k€/year which results in a tax rate of around 28,85% (top that off with a high cost of food/living in general). Free healthcare and retirement savings included in the taxes though and otherwise high quality of life.

For an electrical designer the wages seems to be bit less (like 37k).

I have a feeling that all of the numbers in this topic have seemed fairly low because the titles kinda include the "basic" -kind of engineering in a sense. I bet the numbers would be a fair bit higher when you'd include all more specialized and "senior" etc. positions.
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Offline LY1

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2016, 05:46:13 pm »
In Lithuania Electronics Engineer with 3 years skills can get 700-750€ (730-782$) in hands after taxes in a month.
40h working time in a week.   
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2016, 06:37:21 pm »
In Lithuania Electronics Engineer with 3 years skills can get 700-750€ (730-782$) in hands after taxes in a month.
40h working time in a week.

Gee, that's terrible. Either the wages are low or the taxes are high.

I presume the cost of living is quite a lot lower in the Baltic countries over those in Western Europe?
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Offline pelule

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2016, 07:06:31 am »
I assume, it's the salary range of R&D engineers. At least out of my personal view (Germany) the range is far too low otherwise.
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Online NANDBlog

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2016, 09:09:49 am »
In Lithuania Electronics Engineer with 3 years skills can get 700-750€ (730-782$) in hands after taxes in a month.
40h working time in a week.

Gee, that's terrible. Either the wages are low or the taxes are high.

I presume the cost of living is quite a lot lower in the Baltic countries over those in Western Europe?
Nope. East europe is like a different continent. I've noticed this with many colleagues of mine, they mind dont even register the information, if you say how much an engineer earns in Hungary in my case. They try to rationalize, that living cost is less there. So here is the thing:
Salaries in east europe are 40 to 20% of the ones in west europe. No this is not a mistake, I was earning 3 times as much when I moved here. Yes, living cost is less, but goods aren't. You cannot afford a new car. Or a fancy TV (600 EUR) will cost 1 month of your salary. Fuel is almost the same. You spend considerable amount just paying your utility bills, the rest goes to the bank, because you cannot afford to buy anything out of the pocket. It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.
And there are professions, who are underplayed there. Like doctors, where the salary is 8-10 times in the west. Or look at the minimal wage. Someone with minimal wage will earn ~6 times as much in Luxembourg than in Poland. The two countries are 500 km from each other.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2016, 09:44:34 am »
There is a big push to "liberalise" skilled services in the world, its been going on for more than 20 years, however, we've been blissfully unaware of it in the US which has to be intentional on the part of the media.

However, people need to be aware of both it and the fact that whenever wages are higher than global norms in a country, people are likely scheming to change that situation as soon as possible. Sooner than people think.


"WTO members reviewed the global trade body’s annual report on the state of the international trading environment last week, which reiterated past warnings of a “worryingly high” level of trade-restrictive measures. According to the report, WTO members implemented 182 trade-restrictive measures between mid-October 2015 to mid-October 2016, representing a slight decline from the last reporting period. However, Director-General Roberto Azevêdo warned that this does not necessarily represent a “downward trend” overall, and added that the overall stockpile of these measures remains high.“The last thing the global economy needs today is trade restrictive measures,” Azevêdo said. “They can have a further chilling effect on trade flows, with knock-on effects for economic growth and job creation.”

At least four pending (and several existing US FTAs (international treaties) make it possible for corporations to move their employees around at will, rights which sometimes even allow using their cheapest employees in their most expensive countries, basically making that into a right which countries must allow, a change which I think could under some conditions spell potential disaster for many working people.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 10:27:48 am by cdev »
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Online ChristopherN

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2016, 04:08:41 am »
EE's with a few years (5) of experience should earn between 35k€ an maybe 72k€ as employees. But there are big differences across Germany. An EE in Berlin will be paid way less than one in the south. The salary may go up with age, but most raises require more work or management skills. Big cooperations like Siemens or all the automotive brands will pay more, small companies will pay less.

Freelancers will make between 60€ and 120€ an hour, most will be around 75€. This is form long term jobs, for example 6 months full time. Shorter jobs will have higher hourly rates (all rates plus 19% VAT).

You can live very well on those salaries, especially if you're not located in Hamburg or Munich.

However, I see many EE's (and other professions) that want to stay in their narrow band of knowledge. This can work in big companies but usually is a no-go for smaller companies. It's a pity cause we have a real problem in Germany, many old owners of small(er) companies are searching for successors. That can be a big chance and lead to higher salaries.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2016, 06:44:42 am »
Here in the US, unless you want to take your life in your hands, people need to consider the cost of health insurance and medical savings accounts which can be QUITE substantial and are likely to rise indefinitely in cost. The only way to address it is as other countries have, via regulation, but (would devolve into lengthy political and economics discussion so not for here)

Just- figure that into the cost of living here in the US. It changes everything. People with some fairly common conditions, even if they are well-to-do,  find it impossible to get decent health care here, unless they leave the health insurance system completely and pay 100% out of pocket.  It adds tremendously to the cost of living and is like a huge weight around the whole country's neck.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2016, 06:50:33 am »
Just- figure that into the cost of living here in the US. It changes everything. People with some fairly common conditions, even if they are well-to-do,  find it impossible to get decent health care here, unless they leave the health insurance system completely and pay 100% out of pocket.  It adds tremendously to the cost of living and is like a huge weight around the whole country's neck.
This is exactly what I told to someone who moved to the US recently and was pleasantly surprised by the huge salary. At the end of the day you'll have to pay for the days you are sick, your healthcare and retirement. In the NL the rule of thumb is that an employee costs 2.5 to 3 times his/her salary due to all kind of (mandatory) insurance premiums and retirement fund payments.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2016, 07:02:46 am »
Thats not surprising. And the health insurance everybody gets there would cost really big bucks here, (more than most Americans entire salaries) because its far more comprehensive.

This is leading to huge gaps in longevity between rich and poor in some parts of the US.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 07:04:47 am by cdev »
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Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2016, 07:16:38 am »
One thing that would lower the cost of living in some areas significantly, is a tax on vacant housing so high that it would force absent owners to rent them out.

In some communities there are significant numbers of houses (stand-alone residences usually but some condos) which are owned by absentee owners and not lived in.

Locals in the Bay Area call them "ghost houses".

This may be because absent owners/investors are so wealthy that the hassle of renting it out does not add up to enough profit for them to bother with it, or perhaps because they want a place they can move into with zero lead time, in other words, a ready to go escape hatch from whatever or where-ever they live now.

This practice of buying houses but not using them pushes up the cost of housing some small but significant amount.  How expensive is housing in the Bay Area? So expensive that it is rapidly pricing a great many would be residents out of the market.
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Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2016, 07:37:55 am »
Wow those salaries are low. If they keep paying fuck all for engineers, they can continue to expect an engineer "shortage."  I strongly recommend anyone considering electronics engineering as a profession in the US to become a plumber instead. They literally make in an hour what some electronics engineers listed in these surveys make in one day.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2016, 07:40:59 am »
Thats not surprising. And the health insurance everybody gets there would cost really big bucks here, (more than most Americans entire salaries) because its far more comprehensive.

This is leading to huge gaps in longevity between rich and poor in some parts of the US.

That's what I find so puzzling, there doesn't seem to be the public demand or the political will to do anything about it in the US. From here it seems like even 'Obamacare' is unpopular with the majority of the population and most stories regarding healthcare in the US politicians seem to pour scorn on the 'poor standard' of the NHS in the UK, and prsumably other countries with a state healthcare system (that's how it seems to be reported here anyway).

Is it really that people prefer to pay so much for private medical cover (if they can afford to) and those with most money have the biggest voice (or at least vote) or is it a case of medical bills having got so high because of 'bottomless' insurance pots that it is no longer feasible to have more (Edit:) realistic state provision.

The nearest analogy I can come up with is the way that vetinary bills have shot up here in the last decade or so as most pet owners now have pet insurance.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 07:46:34 am by Gyro »
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Offline razberik

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2016, 08:29:45 am »
Eastern EU, CZ, second largest city with significant amount of EE-related jobs:

Fresh graduate in EE field gets ~1000€ brutto/mo, after all taxation he got ~820€.
Rental of 2-room flat is about 450€/mo.

And it is still considered to be well-payed job.

Taxation includes compulsory healthcare and retirement levy.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 08:31:53 am by razberik »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2016, 09:07:39 am »
Gyro,

Both the UK and the US are stuck in terms of policy space by little known agreements signed back in the 1990s which greatly complicate everything. In addition to committing us to a gradual one way privatization ("Progressive liberalisation") those agreements also freeze financial services regulations (they actually commit countries to further de-regulation which is totally unwise given the increasingly out of control "too big to fail" international banking..   These deals, some of which are long standing, others of which are new and pending commit countries to open up their services markets to temporary firms, so not just doctors and nurses and teachers, also if they allow it once, potentially large numbers of very low cost engineers. (The use of quotas is currently being challenged in the WTO in a case aimed at the US but which would also have implications for others.)

These deals might have seemed like a good idea back in the 1990s but they look (to me) like economic suicide now.  Basically a few very well connected very big business lobbies are arguing that the high wages US (and EU)  firms must pay are crimping their global ambitions, and if they could just replace their current high cost employees with cheaper ones by using a combination of so called "Mode Four" and cross border data flows (for the back office workers) they could export more.  My theory is that here where I live they want to use a manufactured (they knew this was going to happen in advance) health care "emergency" as a sort of Trojan Horse to start this wage lowering trade in services going.
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #49 on: December 29, 2016, 09:36:04 am »
Very interesing references, thank you cdev.
Chris

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