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Author Topic: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA  (Read 15406 times)

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Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2016, 10:10:40 AM »
yes, thats ALSO the real reason they are privatizing your NHS. :(

Here in the US the anticipation of (IMO get rich scheme to get ultra cheap workers for far less than they are worth) has corrupted our politics with institutionalized lying and kept our healthcare in a permanent state of dysfunction (as the negotiations dragged on and on and repeatedly collapsed) for more than 20 yrs and we Americans still don't know a damn thing about it.

Around a million people (more than 50k a year) died during that time because they couldn't get health care!

It shows how badly the US media has been (not) doing their job here. God forbid that the world figure out these schemes being pulled on us.

These two sentences are the key to how a key part of it - the governmental services exception (which almost NEVER applies) works.

"For the purposes of this Agreement…

(b) 'services' includes any service in any sector except services supplied in the exercise of governmental authority;
(c) 'a service supplied in the exercise of governmental authority' means any service which is supplied neither on a commercial basis, nor in competition with one or more service suppliers."

Good explanation can be found in Chapter 2 of "Public Handbook of Trade in Services - FMAT 1..24" at World Bank.org site


Note, I do support international trade in services, just not when its twisted into what amounts to modern day slavery.
We all should be treated fairly, workers, business and the public.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 11:19:32 AM by cdev »
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2017, 08:42:04 AM »
It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.

Didn't Soviet Union broke down in 1991 ? It has been 25 years since and you guys were not able  to rebuild your places? How's that Soviet Union's fault? Anyone saying that should walk down to a wall and do this  |O because there is nobody to blame but yourself.
 

Offline bson

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2017, 08:46:35 AM »
I don't think those numbers are correct in the sense of what engineers make, only for engineers with a generic title.  A senior staff engineer in Silicon Valley or the SF Bay Area in general would have a low end higher than the top end of those figures, and with 20-30 years experience will in many cases top $200k, not counting stock options, benefits, and fringe benefits (like free food).  The numbers quoted in generic surveys like this are pretty much for entry-level, junior positions.  Salaries are slightly lower in other areas, like Seattle or Austin - but cost of living in either of those is MUCH lower, so probably makes it a net toss up.  Besides, if you lived in the SF Bay area the last 20-30 years like me you probably bought a house for $150-$200k with the mortgage long since paid off, so cost of living is likely very reasonable unless you stepped of the boat last week.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 08:50:20 AM by bson »
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Online NANDBlog

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2017, 09:44:16 AM »
It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.

Didn't Soviet Union broke down in 1991 ? It has been 25 years since and you guys were not able  to rebuild your places? How's that Soviet Union's fault? Anyone saying that should walk down to a wall and do this  |O because there is nobody to blame but yourself.
Look at this map:

Notice anything? Look at the map in 1989 if you are not familiar with it.
You only need wishful thinking and positive attitude to quadruple your economy, right? Then please do so.
I give you an example: GDP of Poland 1938: 1000 USD/head, 1990: 1700 USD/head. Same for Italy is 1300 and 16800 (not a typo and that is 1990 dollars). I think that should explain how much the Warsaw pact screwed up East Europe. As I said: you dont know what it is like.
 

Offline MasterBuilder

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2017, 10:49:18 AM »
It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.

Didn't Soviet Union broke down in 1991 ? It has been 25 years since and you guys were not able  to rebuild your places? How's that Soviet Union's fault? Anyone saying that should walk down to a wall and do this  |O because there is nobody to blame but yourself.

How long does it take to educate a new generation of people who can rebuild a country, lets say 15 years and then for these people to make a difference that's going to be another 15 years. Speaking from my own experience of Poland I think its making great progress with services and infrastructure. These are long term projects it is more likely to take 50+ years for parity with western Europe to be reached. There are plenty of well educated and hard working people in these countries to make it happen.

Back on topic, from experience in a small engineering company in Ireland, senior engineers were around the 50K level. They would be expected to work about 47 hours per week for this, contracted work hours were 40 hours. Other engineers were on about 40K and would work about 44 hours per week.
In a larger engineering company here, senior engineers earn less than 60K and would have some benefits.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2017, 11:11:18 AM »
Has anybody heard of the idea of the Gross National Happiness?  (GNH) measure, which originated in Bhutan, of all places. Its a concept which is catching on fast.  I like that idea a lot.

With GNP, because of FTAs and various back room deals we're on a one way road with no exits to a place that nobody wants. But with GNH, everything changes.
 

Offline vodka

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2017, 02:59:24 AM »
It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.

Didn't Soviet Union broke down in 1991 ? It has been 25 years since and you guys were not able  to rebuild your places? How's that Soviet Union's fault? Anyone saying that should walk down to a wall and do this  |O because there is nobody to blame but yourself.

How long does it take to educate a new generation of people who can rebuild a country, lets say 15 years and then for these people to make a difference that's going to be another 15 years. Speaking from my own experience of Poland I think its making great progress with services and infrastructure. These are long term projects it is more likely to take 50+ years for parity with western Europe to be reached. There are plenty of well educated and hard working people in these countries to make it happen.


Poland grew thanks to European Funds to Development that all the CEE members paid.  Furthermore, the polish  still have  their  national currency  after  staying for 13 years when they will adapt  their currency to Euro . We will see that they do.

 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2017, 08:07:47 AM »
Unfortunately, the Eastern European countries made some bad trade deals with Western European nations in the first few years after the end of the Cold War, etc. (i.e. " Intra-EU BITs ") and now are seemingly bound by them in-perpetuity.

Even when it clearly makes no economic sense for them, its being done on principle.

Lesson to be taken away, don't let your country be swindled into signing trade deals that end the ability to change key policies - taking them off the table perpetually. 

There simply is no way they can be made compatible with democracy.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 08:50:25 AM by cdev »
 

Offline XynxNet

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2017, 08:41:46 AM »
How long does it take to educate a new generation of people who can rebuild a country, lets say 15 years and then for these people to make a difference that's going to be another 15 years. Speaking from my own experience of Poland I think its making great progress with services and infrastructure. These are long term projects it is more likely to take 50+ years for parity with western Europe to be reached.
That's about right for a best case scenario.
In germany it took 40 years of clever local economy politics and a massiv federal subsidaries program to change bavaria from a poor, mostly argicultural state into one of our most successful high tech industry states.
 

Offline ptricks

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2017, 10:44:56 PM »
I think it also depends on what you are comparing when you say electrical engineer. 
People that design transmission lines for power plants make more than someone who designs a widget to sell for under $5.
 

Offline dorin

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2017, 08:55:38 PM »
It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.
How's that Soviet Union's fault? Anyone saying that should walk down to a wall and do this  |O because there is nobody to blame but yourself.

Look at the map in 1989 if you are not familiar with it.
You only need wishful thinking and positive attitude to quadruple your economy, right? Then please do so.

You guys are both correct, but it's a good idea to consider what 'blame' really means. Is it the same thing as 'cause'?
It is pretty obvious that the Soviet Union is a cause of that unfortunate situation, but are they to blame? Well, not really, because we can argue "But why did Eastern Europe let themselves invaded?" or "Why did they choose to live in that geographical area". And then, who is to blame for what the Soviet Union has become? There are other historical causes behind that, and so on we can chase down the blame up to Adam and Eve if we really want.
TLDR: It's important to be responsible of the present, but to also keep in mind what caused it.

Now more on topic: Indeed there seem to be significant differences in salaries across the world (and not just in engineering), some of them are illusory when considering all aspects and some are pretty darn real. People are commodities on a free market so feel free to move if you can.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2017, 03:45:53 AM »
It sucks and everyone hates it. [censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.
Blame communism. It still destroys economic activity, exactly the same way, independent of the regime that applies it.
Being professional is making money while showing less dedication than a hobbyist.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2017, 07:37:54 AM »
At the Yalta conference postwar Europe was divided up on a cocktail napkin.


Shhh!
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2017, 07:48:58 AM »
TPTB in some countries now. are so selfish they are totally in it for themselves so refuse to invest in their own countries instead preferring to extract as much rent as possible from their "tenants" and then evict them.


Germany is far far ahead of the US in terms of investment in society.
 

Offline mc172

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2017, 07:55:51 AM »
Look at the map in 1989 if you are not familiar with it.

I searched for quite a while to find out how to do this, but couldn't find anything. Please can you explain how to do this? I'm genuinely interested.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 08:00:15 AM by mc172 »
 

Online NANDBlog

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2017, 01:57:50 AM »
Look at the map in 1989 if you are not familiar with it.

I searched for quite a while to find out how to do this, but couldn't find anything. Please can you explain how to do this? I'm genuinely interested.
Step one, build time machine
Step two... OK, I'm not a native english.
"Look at the map,how it looked like in 1989, if you are not familiar with it.
Here it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Curtain maps on the right side.

How long does it take to educate a new generation of people who can rebuild a country, lets say 15 years and then for these people to make a difference that's going to be another 15 years.
And it will take another 50 or so years, until people who were raised in it, and got used to that era are not going to vote anymore.
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2017, 11:43:54 AM »
I think what we currently have is what's called a market failure due to lack of competition between rival political systems. Certainly there would be little argument that Communism sucks the life out of society in certain ways, but a similar argument could be made for Neoliberalism (or corporatism) , in fact thats what the definition of profit extraction is.



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If you  listen to advocates of neoliberalism-  on the surface it pushes all the right buttons but their claims (especially their taking credit for the last 50 years of gains which were largely due to technology and therefore apolitical)  do not stand up to close scrutiny. 

Neither did Communism's. I think what happened was basically that the same kinds of crooks ended up in charge under both systems, they just changed their shirts or something.

Note, I am not trying to say Mr. Moore ("Mad Mike") - who is in the video, is a crook. In my opinion he is by far one of the more articulate advocates for neoliberalism and the corporate state. However, he has been an extremely divisive figure because its a divisive agenda, fighting as it is against democracy and "mob rule" as they put it.

And if you listen to the end, the questions brought up are good ones and he never answered them.


You know what they say about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.  People should know upfront that the main goal of the neoliberal agenda is putting corporations in the drivers seat, forever, basically emasculating voting and elections so they can't do anything of economic importance. And they are almost there, at least here in the US.

Another huge goal is lowering wages, a lot.

And they have no idea what people are going to do in that situation. They don't really care and certainly don't have any answers.  Its going to be a big disaster that creates more problems than it could ever solve. (They just want more profits, not to help the Third World in any way as they say.)

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Quote from: Galenbo on 2017-05-11, 11:45:53>Quote from: NANDBlog on 2016-12-22, 17:09:49
It sucks and everyone hates it.
[censored] you soviet union, its all your fault.
Blame communism. It still destroys economic activity, exactly the same way, independent of the regime that applies it.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 11:51:46 AM by cdev »
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2017, 12:45:00 PM »
There is a shift to "deindustrialization" as people become less crucial to manufacturing. Thats behind a lot of slow or no growth. There is a good argument that society should not be so focused on growth and instead push for sustainability and quality of life/work life balance. As people will have more and more free time and likely retire earlier and earlier, there should be more opportunities for people to spend time with friends and family instead of working themselves to death in an ever more competitive race to the bottom.
 

Offline 4CX35000

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Re: Engineering salaries western EU , UK , AUS, USA
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2017, 11:01:42 PM »
I can't remember when I last met a decent electronics designer in the UK on less than £40k.

I have no idea what scope that survey used to define "electrical engineer"

Depends on were you work and who you work for. I know a couple of companies were a engineer employed by the company for some 20 odd years will be paid £45k or higher and yet a new engineer with experience will only get paid £28k due to the way the employers manipulates the contracts. Unfortunately not everybody finds it easy to up sticks and live in the Cambridge fens or the south east of England to find a better job and therefore have to make do with what they can find locally.
 


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