Author Topic: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?  (Read 10502 times)

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Offline nctnico

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2017, 03:10:47 am »
Given that marketing is all about understanding what the market wants, I can't quite reconcile all your statements.
No, marketing is making people believe they need your product!  8)
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Offline rhb

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2017, 04:04:53 am »
BTW  I spent most of my career as a contractor.  Typically about 3 years each place except for the last which ran 8 years.  I did not look for work.  It found me.  At the start I worked through a one man job shop for about 4 years until I discovered my SEP funds had been embezzled.  I did get the money back, but it took a while.

I've been laid off twice.  The first time was my last regular employee job.  I bought a Sun 3/60 and taught myself Unix system admin and lex & yacc over the course of 5 months.  My first contract task was a perfect fit for lex & yacc.  The client had allotted 2 months for completion.  I finished in 2 weeks along with doing a lot of other stuff on the side.  I had worked 10-12 hours a day during the 5 months.  Pure luck, but it had an excellent payoff.  It established my personal brand.  At one point I had 2 regular employees working exclusively for me for a couple of months!

Throughout my career I spent a lot of personal time and money buying and reading books I thought might be useful in my work.  This gave the perception that I worked much longer hours than I did.  My hourly rate made up for only working 35-37 hours a week.  My Dad was a professional engineer, but I grew up in a restaurant because he got tired of engineering sales.  It was very valuable experience as it taught me good customer service skills.  If I finished a task close to quitting time, I went home, I did not run out the clock, nor did I bill my client for eating lunch as I've seen other contractors do all too often.

The 2nd time I bought $15k of computer gear and started developing some seismic processing software. I went to walk the dog during a test run and when I got back there was a message from a friend informing me that an old boss was looking for a "Reg type".  That gig lasted 6 years before the merger and 2 years after even though the person who hired me had moved to another assignment.  I put $100k of labor into that software and never made a dime from it.  But I learned a great deal.  I'd do it all over with no changes.

If you don't have a paying job, you should be doing real work on your nickel.  Stuff that is important to potential employers.  If you won't invest in yourself, why should anyone else?  Attitude makes all the difference in the world.
 

Offline embeddedguy85

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2017, 05:14:23 am »
Honestly I am depressed and at a crossroads with this. I am 33 and I've accomplished nothing.

I know I would like to do embedded work but it seems like as a freelancer I would be at such a big disadvantage to those who have years of experience and those who already have the contacts.

One option is to build something so good it gets attention.

Another is to look for someone to take me on as an apprentice and pay me a low salary. Right now I make $850 per month as a copywriter. Would love to trade it for something I enjoy.  Plus I could barter my web app expertise to help the transition.

Maybe I should do a proper post with that offer?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:19:43 am by embeddedguy85 »
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2017, 05:29:38 am »
Given that marketing is all about understanding what the market wants, I can't quite reconcile all your statements.
No, marketing is making people believe they need your product!  8)

That's selling.

Marketing tells the factory what the customers want/need.
Selling tells the customers what the factory can sell them, and why they want/need it.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2017, 05:47:37 am »
Honestly I am depressed and at a crossroads with this. I am 33 and I've accomplished nothing.

We all have those feelings at various times! Famously it is said that "all political careers end in failure"; personally I think it applies to most people's careers. There's always more you could have achieved.

Quote
I know I would like to do embedded work but it seems like as a freelancer I would be at such a big disadvantage to those who have years of experience and those who already have the contacts.

Another is to look for someone to take me on as an apprentice and pay me a low salary. Right now I make $850 per month as a copywriter. Would love to trade it for something I enjoy.  Plus I could barter my web app expertise to help the transition.

Maybe I should do a proper post with that offer?

People hire freelancers because the freelancers have experience they don't have. They don't hire freelances so the freelancers "can learn on their dime". Alternatively people hire temporary staff for peak workloads, and give them stuff that can be done with little training.

As a student or freelancer or as an employee you have to be developing your skills so that you can demonstrate to the next employer that you like the subject and will solve their problems. That implies that on your own time you should be picking subjects, learning them, picking suitable tasks, implementing the tasks using what you learned, and being able to state what worked and how/why you would do it better next time.

Note that doesn't depend on the technical topic; it is true for anything. The task doesn't have to result in anything saleable, except that the experiences/knowledge should be saleable.

Be aware that there is rampant ageism in some parts of the industry, a true downer for us all. Circumvention requires either inside personal knowledge or specialist skills.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline dmills

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2017, 05:56:28 am »
Marketing tells the factory what the customers want/need.
Selling tells the customers what the factory can sell them, and why they want/need it.
A critical difference that all too many people involved in either activity do not understand!
Marketing being generally lumped in with publicity does not exactly help matters...

Our marketing people are generally considered useful by our engineering shop, they identify market needs for us without us having to deal with customers... The sales guys on the other hand are the sworn enemy, mostly because they do not understand that when we give a delivery date we generally don't pad by anything like as much as they think we do.

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2017, 06:09:34 am »
Honestly I am depressed and at a crossroads with this. I am 33 and I've accomplished nothing.
It feels like you are putting the cart before the horse, trying to push a wet noodle.
How did you pick embedded software development without knowing whether you have the talent/temperament for programming? 

Do you have an Arduino (or similar dev board)?  Have you been programming it and constructing circuits, etc?  If you haven't been doing that already as a hobby, forcing yourself into such a technically-demanding "niche" seems almost like you are fixated on some "random" job.   You seem to be concerned about getting work when you don't even know if you like or can do the work.  I didn't see any mention that you had actually done any programming at any level, perhaps I missed it?

Quote
Right now I make $850 per month as a copywriter.
Writing what kind of "copy"?
What about technical writing? It would be rather "morphing" your career towards programming/design.  By giving you exposure to people who work in that arena.  Heaven knows we need more/better technical writers judging by the ridiculous things that are put out there as "documentation". 

You don't read Mandarin by any chance, do you?  Much (most?) of the stuff coming out of China is howling ridiculous.  You might even to get away with taking online translations of Chinese copy and morphing it into Proper English. That could be a marketable skill to Chinese businesses?
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2017, 06:15:02 am »
A embedded computer and the software to run its applications is the ultimate Swiss Army Knife of all history, really. There is very little you cannot do with one, somehow.

Often in some radically new, easier, cheaper way.

You'll be a natural in your field when you walk into a business and automatically start having ideas on how you would save them money with your custom embedded device(s).

Instinctively.

In many cases lots of money.

There is lots and lots of work out these doing just that. However, another level of profit is often to be had by (over-broad definition alert) bringing in sophisticated math in new ways.

Much of the low hanging fruit in web applications has already been taken. So the remaining problems often involve sophisticated math.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:17:52 am by cdev »
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Offline cdev

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2017, 06:30:06 am »
Reconcile my statements? Its called market research! Asking those on the inside questions about the market.


I cant speak for others but to me some of the things you've said strike me as inconsistent with your stated goal.

Richard Crowley used the phrase "putting the cart before the horse" - that says it perfectly.

You have to walk before you can run.  Thats why I suggested doing it for fun first. Then you have zero expectations for making money. You're just doing it for fun and for the satisfaction of doing something interesting. Just get involved in it, try to develop good habits (so you'll learn more) and don't waste your time and it all might just fall into place.

Stop thinking so much.

I think the gist of my advice to you is mostly don't quit your current job, (because you're not going to get a job in the field unless you're either really good or somehow connected to a business already (family member)

Keep learning, don't waste precious time.

Are you still living with parents? If you have a good relationship with your parents, thats good, that kind of situation will give you freedom to spend your time learning. The income you make can go into the bank.

You couldn't have found a more affordable and at the same time, potentially empowering and interesting hobby.


Richard Crowley's other suggestion - if you're bilingual in any language, especially Chinese (right now) thats a big plus.


« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:35:37 am by cdev »
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Offline timb

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Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2017, 11:45:35 am »
Honestly I am depressed and at a crossroads with this. I am 33 and I've accomplished nothing.

I know I would like to do embedded work but it seems like as a freelancer I would be at such a big disadvantage to those who have years of experience and those who already have the contacts.

For what it’s worth, I’m around the same age as you. Back when I was a kid, I really enjoyed electronics and computers, however computers ended up being a bigger lure for me. As a teenager the Internet revolution was unfolding before my eyes, so it seemed a better choice for my future.

I spent my late teens and most of 20’s tangled in the IT web. Don’t get me wrong, I was successful, but it got boring, repetitive and tedious. So I retired in 2010.

I had always kept up with electronics and embedded hardware/software, as a hobby, but now that I had more time on my hands I started taking it more seriously.

Before you know it I was doing reviews and writing articles and then a book deal fell in my lap! I started helping work on the firmware (plus some hardware and software demos) of a new IOT platform, which ultimately gave me tons of contacts and things just continued to grow.

In a few years I went from just a hobby to professional consultant. You can to.

1) Just be persistent. You should constantly be working on cool projects in your spare time. Help other people with their projects. You should always be doing something to showcase your knowledge. People will see that and find you out.

2) Don’t work on contingency. Don’t work for a percentage of future profits, stock options or whatever. It’s highly unlikely they’re the next Apple and you have to eat now, not in six months.

3) For new clients , demand a flat fee upfront (say, the first 12 hours) plus a fair hourly rate payable at each milestone. Also, don’t be afraid to ask for timely reimbursement of expenses; you shouldn’t have to come out of pocket for parts and such.

4) Never, ever turn over any completed PCBs, final firmware or source code until you’re paid. Once you do, you can forget ever seeing another dime from them, so don’t cave no matter how much they complain or pressure you.

At first you’ll get some challenging clients, but eventually you’re figure out how to weed the serious from the pie in the sky dreamers.

Follow these rules and you’ll have mad bread to break up.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 11:38:23 pm by timb »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2017, 07:40:51 pm »
timb makes sensible points.

I'll add a rule of thumb. If a client blows hot very quickly ("absolutely vital I have this done soonest") then they will probably blow cold very quickly.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2017, 08:09:12 pm »
2) Don’t work on contingency. Don’t work for a percentage of future profits, stock options or whatever. It’s highly unlikely they’re the next Apple and you have to eat now, not in six months.

3) For new clients , demand a flat fee upfront (say, the first 12 hours) plus a fair hourly rate payable at each milestone. Also, don’t be afraid to ask for timely reimbursement of expenses; you shouldn’t have to come out of pocket for parts and such.

4) Never, ever turn over any completed PCBs, final firmware or source code until you’re paid. Once you do, you can forget ever seeing another dime from them, so don’t cave no matter how much they complain or pressure you.
These are good points but I want to add another one:
- Try to work out how much time a project is going to take (*) and provide a customer with a solid number upfront. If that is impossible then split the project into a research part and an implementation part or work at one part at a time. All companies budgetize for product development so you can't say something costs $10000 and send a bill for $30000.

Working with a blank cheque is to be avoided unless you are an extra pair of hands in a bigger team.

Also if you take on a project and do this on your own then the copyright is yours. Customers tend to not know this.

(*) If you split a project into sub-projects (starting a new C project, setup microcontroller, test library, create I/O drivers, create logic, testing, installation) you can assign a number of hours or days to each activity and add that up. This gives me an awfully good estimate on the amount of time I need.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 08:14:45 pm by nctnico »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2017, 08:50:17 pm »
- Try to work out how much time a project is going to take (*) and provide a customer with a solid number upfront. If that is impossible then split the project into a research part and an implementation part or work at one part at a time. All companies budgetize for product development so you can't say something costs $10000 and send a bill for $30000.

It is reasonable to provide an indication of cost, but if a freelancer is really in that position then they aren't "just" a freelancer, but are in a full-blown business relationship. At that point you need formal contracts stating what each party will/won't do and when.

Quote
Also if you take on a project and do this on your own then the copyright is yours. Customers tend to not know this.

IPR can be tricky with inexperienced clients. It is practical for you to define in the contract that "client can use it for their products". If the client doesn't want you also selling it to their competition, "we will not develop another X for a period of Y years", where X is tightly defined. If they object, point out that they are benefiting from the work you have previously done for other non-competing clients.

Do not restrict your ability to get work in the future. Local laws vary in this respect.

Quote
(*) If you split a project into sub-projects (starting a new C project, setup microcontroller, test library, create I/O drivers, create logic, testing, installation) you can assign a number of hours or days to each activity and add that up. This gives me an awfully good estimate on the amount of time I need.

If you don't have a track record of estimating, work out how long you think it will take, then either convert to the next higher time unit or multiply by 3 or 4. There are solid reasons for the latter, and it seems to work in practice.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2017, 02:06:23 am »
Try to give a good estimate and if you don't know, try to overestimate not underestimate the cost. And then stick to it. Document the time you spend in a log, and make it as accurate as possible.

Make sure your project has clear "deliverables" and that the scope of work is well defined. Try to break the work up into three phases, each with a deliverable and their payment being required before moving to the next phase. Don't get way ahead of yourself as far as work on their project goes, make sure you get paid for the first part before moving to the next.

.....

If a customer bounces a check on you, demand cash as payment and/or thereafter don't treat their checks as payment until after they have cleared.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 02:12:17 am by cdev »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2017, 02:16:24 am »
Try to give a good estimate and if you don't know, try to overestimate not underestimate the cost.

Risky. I'd never do that. In the past I've either insisted on an initial find-the-problems phase, and then quoted for the rest of the work, or I've quoted time+materials.

Quote
Make sure your project has clear "deliverables" and that the scope of work is well defined. Try to break the work up into three phases, each with a deliverable and their payment being required before moving to the next phase. Don't get way ahead of yourself as far as work on their project goes, make sure you get paid for the first part before moving to the next.

Also explicitly state what you require from the client, and when.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Gliding aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2017, 03:09:00 am »
I should have qualified that the first phase should be to ascertain the size of the project, and that your quote depends on what the client submits to you then. And you should be paid for that time.

(in my case it was a web deliverable so I needed to know specifics about what they desired in terms of its functionality, and they needed to give me the content that needed to go into it.)

The first phase deliverable would typically be a mock up of what the web site would do, a storyboard.

The second phase would be a working model on my own laptop, the third phase would be a completely functioning site, but to see it one would need to login to my server.

The site would be transferred to their server upon payment of the third payment.

 (And the code would be well documented so that they could likely fix most things themselves if they were willing to spend a bit of time learning how to do it..)

Often clients don't know what they want and then you run into the problem of them wanting you to explain what functionality in your opinion it should have. That exchange of ideas should be semi-formal so that you can get paid for it.

The hard thing with some clients is getting money for that time early on that you are working on their problem.

Some clients will go around from one firm to another and basically suck them for ideas. With no intention of paying any of them.

To make your business profitable and to avoid endless wasting of time in expensive flaky client interactions its essential that you figure out a way to have that time be included in the first deliverable.

Don't give it away for free. 

Also, once you have started working on it, have a procedure for adding new content and functionality that's fairly formal or they may keep trying to add more features to "the" deliverable after a price has been agreed upon. I've only had one client hat really abused that but she was enough to make me realize how important defining the scope very formally is.

You want a procedure in place at the outset that will make them understand that "feature creep" will cost them more money because its more work.

They need to give you all their needs upfront or accept that later stuff will be moved- that additional functionality will go into its own version two set of deliverables with appropriate payments.

You should try to avoid projects where there are lots of red flags that they don't understand that.

If they want you to be "on retainer", so to speak. At their beck and call, make sure they pay you what you're worth for that time. All of your time if that is what they want. You should consider the fact that while you are on call for them you will need to turn down other work. Just assume you will be working very long hours and wont be able to accept new work until you know its finished and bill accordingly. Bill at least twice what you would make in a salaried job. Maybe three times as much.

Because the cost of health insurance and out of pocket costs as you get older is astronomical. (Probably over a million dollars per person over your lifetime already and only going to go up.) and you need to start saving money now for it.

Or, kiss ever getting married or having children goodbye. You wont be able to afford it. The same goes for owning a home or even a car.

"Crowd out" its called.

Try to give a good estimate and if you don't know, try to overestimate not underestimate the cost.

Risky. I'd never do that. In the past I've either insisted on an initial find-the-problems phase, and then quoted for the rest of the work, or I've quoted time+materials.

Quote
Make sure your project has clear "deliverables" and that the scope of work is well defined. Try to break the work up into three phases, each with a deliverable and their payment being required before moving to the next phase. Don't get way ahead of yourself as far as work on their project goes, make sure you get paid for the first part before moving to the next.

Also explicitly state what you require from the client, and when.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 03:24:40 am by cdev »
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2017, 03:32:54 am »
All of cdev's statements are sensible, but it is worth noting that his comments on healthcare are specific to one country and aren't true everywhere. That's another topic for another forum.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline timb

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2017, 09:44:26 am »
All of cdev's statements are sensible, but it is worth noting that his comments on healthcare are specific to one country and aren't true everywhere. That's another topic for another forum.

Yes, however it’s always good to put aside money as a buffer. I’ve always tried to keep 6 months worth of bills and expenses saved up as a financial “runway” in case I was fired, injured, whatever.

Now that I freelance, I keep a 12 month runway. (When you work for yourself, you’re not guaranteed a paycheck, I’ve gone months without a contract on occasion.)

So, make like a squirrel and stash a really large nut for the future.
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Offline timb

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2017, 09:49:11 am »
Oh, here’s another rule:

If the one man startup wanting to hire you is insisting you sign an NDA, walk away. Trust me, their idea isn’t unique and isn’t worth stealing. The NDA means they have an overinflated sense of themselves and their abilities.
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2017, 10:24:21 am »
Oh, here’s another rule:

If the one man startup wanting to hire you is insisting you sign an NDA, walk away. Trust me, their idea isn’t unique and isn’t worth stealing. The NDA means they have an overinflated sense of themselves and their abilities.

Maybe not. Sometimes it's just a "standard protocol".
I know a few guys that like the protocol thing more than the real deal, and I would say this is definitely not uncommon.
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Offline rhb

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2017, 11:06:07 am »
Most of my professional work was as a contractor.  I kept 18 months expenses as cash on hand at a minimum and consider 3 years comfortable.

I generally agree with timb's comment.  But the real test is are you getting paid.  I worked with some contractors who had friends at the place they'd left who were not getting paid on time.  I was quite incredulous.  If you're not getting paid on time, it's not a job any more and time to walk.
 

Offline timb

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2017, 08:08:52 pm »
Oh, here’s another rule:

If the one man startup wanting to hire you is insisting you sign an NDA, walk away. Trust me, their idea isn’t unique and isn’t worth stealing. The NDA means they have an overinflated sense of themselves and their abilities.

Maybe not. Sometimes it's just a "standard protocol".
I know a few guys that like the protocol thing more than the real deal, and I would say this is definitely not uncommon.

If it’s a large company hiring you, sure, an NDA may be part of the standard package all contractors sign. In that case, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. However, if it’s a one man band or other very small startup, I’ve found it to be a good warning indicator that you might want to decline the project. You can generally pick these guys out, as they won’t even give you a basic overview of the project before you sign an NDA. (They don’t want you to steal their brilliant idea that’s totally never been done before, honest.)

When you actually read the NDA, you’ll often find it’s some boilerplate NDA from LegalZoom and not even appropriately customized!

Basically, trust your inner voice to guide you. If something seems off about the job, pass on it. There’s a whole group of people out there that try to capitalize on the desperation of freelancers just starting out.

That’s another thing, don’t set your hourly rates too low. It attracts the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of clients. You can’t make a living off $20/hr doing this type of work (in the US at least, for hardware+firmware design) and the clients you’ll get at that rate will be so abusive, picky and demanding that you’ll soon be frustrated and want to give up.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2017, 08:31:39 pm »
When you actually read the NDA, you’ll often find it’s some boilerplate NDA from LegalZoom and not even appropriately customized!

There's nothing stopping you having your own NDA, and politely declining to sign anyone else's. Your own NDA should be completely symmetrical, ie. neither party is permitted to disclose the IP belonging to the other.

Most important of all, is *never* sign any document which is presented to you as an NDA, but which actually includes a "transfer of IP" clause. Basically, "you must keep confidential anything we tell you, but we *own* anything you tell us".

I can virtually guarantee that people will try and get you to sign one of these at some point. The person you're dealing with may simply not have read their legal department's standard, ridiculously one-sided NDA-and-IP-grab document, or they may know perfectly well what's in it and are trying to get you to simply hand over your intellectual property.

Either way, the first answer is a polite but firm 'no'. If they persist, the second answer is 'goodbye'.

Quote
don’t set your hourly rates too low. It attracts the absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of clients. You can’t make a living off $20/hr doing this type of work (in the US at least, for hardware+firmware design) and the clients you’ll get at that rate will be so abusive, picky and demanding that you’ll soon be frustrated and want to give up.

They'll also keep insisting that you quote for every last detail, and even then, they'll push back and insist on a discount for not doing <insert trivial feature>. You'll spend as long preparing quotes and arguing over them as you spend on the actual job, and no client expects to have to explicitly pay for the time you spend on this.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2017, 11:36:46 pm »
Yes, however it’s always good to put aside money as a buffer. I’ve always tried to keep 6 months worth of bills and expenses saved up as a financial “runway” in case I was fired, injured, whatever.

Now that I freelance, I keep a 12 month runway. (When you work for yourself, you’re not guaranteed a paycheck, I’ve gone months without a contract on occasion.)

So, make like a squirrel and stash a really large nut for the future.

Not as easy as it sounds, especially when you're a freelancer.

Or maybe I'm just a terrible freelancer. I did it most of the 90s and about half of the 00s. The freedom is great. I hate wasting my life (especially sunny days) in a cubicle. Getting the work done successfully was never a problem. The problem was justifying quotes -- especially when mine was $10k while the client had a quote from a university student for $500 -- and sometimes getting payment afterwards (especially, for some reason, in 2000-2001).

I always managed to live, but there was nothing extra to put aside or invest.

Now, working for $MEGACOMPANY for the last 2.5 years I've already saved enough runway to live for three or four years. Soul-destroying office environment, and extremely unproductive compared to working at home, but it pays the bills.

 

Online AndyC_772

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Re: Would you hire a self taught embedded software developer?
« Reply #74 on: October 24, 2017, 11:39:32 pm »
and sometimes getting payment afterwards (especially, for some reason, in 2000-2001).

That's when the .COM bubble burst. Lots of tech companies, who thought they had loads of money, suddenly found they didn't.
 


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