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Author Topic: I did it - switched to KiCad  (Read 10135 times)

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Offline hendorog

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2017, 07:23:05 AM »
It is my utopia using the keyboard all of the time like typing. One of the annoyances of KiCad for me is having to use the mouse so much for things which I could use the keyboard for. And I don't mean the 'MS Windows way' of keyboard use - that is not pleasant or efficient for me.
I guess everyone has his own utopia  ;)

Why not than use a mouse only interface? (or as close as possible)


As per Karels post, because a good keyboard interface can be very fast and accurate (once it is learned).
Yes, but the point is, that this is for everyone different (that's why I said everyone has a different utopia)

Not sure what you mean? I accepted your point and agreed with it earlier. Then I simply answered your question - from my perspective naturally.

Most professional CAD and 3D programs I know of, are all mouse by default and keyboard shortcuts can be programed in such a way that in the end you can do most things by keyboard if that's your fancy.
Most companies I worked with most people just use the mouse with some basic shortcut-keys.
(another annoying part about KiCad is that they don't use default shortcut key combinations)
The whole point of this, is that it can be programmed to anyone's like.
That is what is missing right now.

Don't see how accuracy should be an argument.
If you want to be accurate, just use absolute values filled in.

I don't get the whole 'fast' and 'efficient' issue anyway.
On a decent board design that will maybe safe you 5% at MOST from the total hours spent.
If people think that's the way to safe time and money, they have a lot to learn......


Cool, lets just call it personal preference then.

 

Offline james_s

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2017, 02:47:06 AM »
I don't get the whole 'fast' and 'efficient' issue anyway.
On a decent board design that will maybe safe you 5% at MOST from the total hours spent.
If people think that's the way to safe time and money, they have a lot to learn......

Given the amount of time spent on a typical layout, 5% represents a very significant savings.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2017, 03:14:48 AM »
I don't get the whole 'fast' and 'efficient' issue anyway.
On a decent board design that will maybe safe you 5% at MOST from the total hours spent.
If people think that's the way to safe time and money, they have a lot to learn......

Given the amount of time spent on a typical layout, 5% represents a very significant savings.
I said at the very most.
So not a general number at all!!!

In the projects I have done, managed and seen, it's more like 1 or 2% (or less)
You also have to put it into perspective. I rather run a team that is happy working with some kind of software (even if it's not the most efficient), than I team that's constantly complaining or is having trouble following the workflow.
(Reason why we skipped Altium a few times for example).

Besides, people should spend more time and effort improving working on a clever way.
These numbers are so extremely minor.

I don't see how on earth someone can actually say that 5% is significant??  :-//
Maybe statistics and physics work different in other types of the world?  :o
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline Deridex

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2017, 03:55:23 AM »
I think the Hotkeys in KiCad are not bad at all.
I just took a few days to get used to it. And now i even catch myself trying to use em in Eagle at work  8)

Some people just use a "cheatsheet" at the start. But after a short time you probaly won't need it any longer.
 

Offline bson

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2017, 04:59:26 AM »
Given the amount of time spent on a typical layout, 5% represents a very significant savings.
More importantly, workflow problems forces an engineer to focus on how to drive the tool rather than what they want to do.  It's a distraction that causes loss of train of thought.  Nobody cares about 5% of time, because in the end the old saying that we can't type faster than we can think applies, but breaking focus and causing loss of attention is very disruptive.
<This space intentionally left blank>
 

Offline james_s

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2017, 05:10:21 AM »
Well it's all a matter of personal preference, I like having the option of using the mouse, but generally I get in the groove and use the keyboard for the majority of my interaction, and reaching for the mouse and hunting for the option I want in the GUI is what breaks my attention and interrupts my workflow. I grew up in DOS though and tend to use the command line frequently, I find it faster and more efficient, I recognize that not everyone does and that's fine but it works for me.

Similarly I've seen guys trying to program CPLD and FPGAs using the graphical schematic entry tool, sure it makes it easy for a beginner to get their feet wet and create very simple designs but beyond that it's tedious and only holds you back, taking the time to learn VHDL or Verilog is hugely more efficient even though at the beginning it is a steep learning curve that takes a lot of time and effort to learn but the investment pays off.



 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #56 on: March 29, 2017, 03:47:14 AM »
by copy/paste, I think we all think of something like : open two documents, select one item in a document, do copy, and paste it in the other document. it's been in our computer live for decades, but not in cad softwares and not in kicad.
No I was thinking of making multiple copies of one section of a schematic or layout.

Making multiple copies of one section of a layout is best done by putting that section in its own hierarchical sheet.

Making multiple copies of a section of layout is more complicated. Think of Altium's "Rooms." It's a feature Kicad needs, the developers know that, and I suppose the real issue is how to design the application to support this.
 

Online boffin

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2017, 05:20:36 PM »
I think the Hotkeys in KiCad are not bad at all.
I just took a few days to get used to it. And now i even catch myself trying to use em in Eagle at work  8)

Some people just use a "cheatsheet" at the start. But after a short time you probaly won't need it any longer.

The one that I don't like is that it's
W - the schematic editor to draw a wire
X - the layout editor to draw a trace

why the heck are they not the same?
 

Offline b_force

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2017, 01:02:39 AM »
I don't get why to hit a shortut key in the first place.
Why not automatic drawing on every node?
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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Offline Deridex

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2017, 03:39:54 PM »
The one that I don't like is that it's
W - the schematic editor to draw a wire
X - the layout editor to draw a trace

why the heck are they not the same?
I can't answer on that one. But it's true that some points of the user interface  might be questionable.

On the other hand: I still think it's possible to get used to it. And i don't think that you will find a EDA-Tool without some questionable points in the user interface.
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2017, 08:07:01 PM »
All right, I've just finished my first board in KiCad. To my surprise it was easier than I expected. Some processes are rather unusual (libraries, vias stitching, polygon priorities) but possible. KiCad crashed two times when playing with polygons. This is as many as my Altium does per day. I am surprised how good the interactive router is.

Good night Eagle....

Offline james_s

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2017, 07:50:08 AM »
That's a bit worrying that KiCAD is crashing. I've occasionally left it running for months at a time as I tinkered with various back-burner layouts a little here and there. I don't recall ever once having it crash but the version I'm using is a few years old now.

I wonder how that Eagle subscription thing is working out for them? I only personally know one guy still using Eagle and he's sticking with whatever version he had.
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2017, 07:50:09 PM »
I would be also interested on some inside info about Eagle. Folks around switched to KiCad too and my formal department did not obtain a new eagle license either. I would say that a number of Kicad tutorials online and stable releases brought it closer to normal engineers.

Offline Rerouter

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Re: I did it - switched to KiCad
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2017, 08:13:26 PM »
I'm using 4.0.6, and one of my projects has been open in the background for at-least 2 months without crashing, (Cannot speak for 4.0.7),

The other nicity is that you can have multiple versions installed on a machine without conflict, the forward and backward compatibility has for the most part meant opening in 4.0.6 or the old 2103 stable version just works.
 


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