ALL PCB - Cheap, but at a price..

[mrpackethead]

I just got burned by Allpcb.   What i foolishly did was trust them with a time critical board.  yes, i know its CNY, but i checked with them and it was in the allocated windows.   
today, ( nearly 48 hours later ) they inform me that they can't do it, and delivery is pushed out 3 weeks.   just a

Maybe i got lucky over the previous orders,  and things have gone well..  This one ( which was really important ) has burned me badly, and i'm left with no sensible options but to order somethign at US prices.   

Product / Price is just part of the equation.   they have to deliver on time when its critical.   

Shame on them, this time.   However shame on me if i allowed it to happen again, so After a year of great results, i'm going to have to find someone else for doing my proto and small volume boards.

Upshot. Allpcb are probably ok, if you are not time sensitive, and can allow a bit of 'slop' in delivery, ideal for hobbyists.        If you need guaranteed delivery, then they are not an option.  the risk is too high.     

a $200 order going wrong may not seem like much but the kick on down the track is just trouble.   

I am not looking forward to having to tell my customers why i have not delivered on time. They wont' be interestd in what happende, they will just be grumpy at me.    We'll just have to magicllly time compress this all up.

?

[Jeroen3]

Chinese New Year

[imidis]

 

[KE5FX]

Chinese New Year

... hasn't started yet.  AllPcb has a posted schedule. 

I know this because I just sent them a time-sensitive order today. 

[jeremy]

To be fair, I can tell this exact same story for both allpcb and pcbway. Not CNY related, just “I paid $300 for 24h turnaround, I got 5 days which is worth $5. Only $40 refund after getting very grumpy with their support”. IMO, for the really fast boards you have to go with the non-chinese board houses unfortunately.

Edit: you’re in NZ, circuitlabs is my go-to emergency board supplier. Only time they have ever been late (by 1 day) is because the DHL plane broke down.

[AndyC_772]

I know this because I just sent them a time-sensitive order today. 

Me too. Very simple, two layer board, which normally they'd turn around in 24 hrs. Fingers crossed they make it onto the plane before everyone goes home!

[racemaniac]

Over at the stm32duino forum we're also eagerly awaiting a first prototype of a board we're making
also sent in to allpcb last weekend so we still get it before chinese new year .

if everybody is doing that, i can imagine them not being able to make it for all orders... (but ofcourse then they should say so upfront)

[Yansi]

Sorry, not trying to offend, but sending your time critical boards a week before CNY, is a stupid move. That is not fault of the Chinese guys, that is your fault of not evaluating possible problems before ordering. Next time, please think critical first, before doing something.

If you are doing something time critical for your valuable customers, then I would expect a respective price for that - i.e. to use a local manufacturer, that will cost $800 for a 48h turnaround instead of $240, but it will be done. If you have such customers, that can't wait, then they should expect to pay for their "hurry".

[GreggD]

I just now got notice that my 100 boards are in DHLs hands.

Now at Cincinatti Ohio DHL customs.

[AndyC_772]

It is unwise to draw conclusions from incomplete infomation.

[ebastler]

It is unwise to draw conclusions from incomplete infomation.

... which makes it difficult to respond to your rather terse message. 

[mrpackethead]

Sorry, not trying to offend, but sending your time critical boards a week before CNY, is a stupid move. That is not fault of the Chinese guys, that is your fault of not evaluating possible problems before ordering. Next time, please think critical first, before doing something.

I knew it was CNY. I made a point of checking in with them, and asking if it coudl be done.    Yes Yes Yes it can be done.    So, i paid the bill, got a delivery date that was fine.  Two days later they are telling me that they can't do it any more.      In this case, yes, perhaps it was a little foolish.   But i double checked and all was fine.      All they would have had to to is say 'no'. and i would have ordered from someone else.       ( or readjusted my schedule ).    but based on their committment..

its a question of trust.

[Bassman59]

To be fair, I can tell this exact same story for both allpcb and pcbway. Not CNY related, just “I paid $300 for 24h turnaround, I got 5 days which is worth $5. Only $40 refund after getting very grumpy with their support”.

I use an American Express credit card for these sorts of orders, and Amex really goes to bat for the customer. If the vendor blew the delivery like that, I'd initiate a dispute with Amex and get the amount paid for the expedited service refunded. Amex will turn that around in a couple of days.

[mrpackethead]

To be fair, I can tell this exact same story for both allpcb and pcbway. Not CNY related, just “I paid $300 for 24h turnaround, I got 5 days which is worth $5. Only $40 refund after getting very grumpy with their support”.

I use an American Express credit card for these sorts of orders, and Amex really goes to bat for the customer. If the vendor blew the delivery like that, I'd initiate a dispute with Amex and get the amount paid for the expedited service refunded. Amex will turn that around in a couple of days.

to be fair in this case, Allpcb refunded me very quickly in full. so no complaints there.

[jeremy]

To be fair, I can tell this exact same story for both allpcb and pcbway. Not CNY related, just “I paid $300 for 24h turnaround, I got 5 days which is worth $5. Only $40 refund after getting very grumpy with their support”.

I use an American Express credit card for these sorts of orders, and Amex really goes to bat for the customer. If the vendor blew the delivery like that, I'd initiate a dispute with Amex and get the amount paid for the expedited service refunded. Amex will turn that around in a couple of days.

to be fair in this case, Allpcb refunded me very quickly in full. so no complaints there.

Yeah, I should have pushed them harder, but I had much more pressing things to do at the time as you can probably imagine

[KE5FX]

I know this because I just sent them a time-sensitive order today. 

Me too. Very simple, two layer board, which normally they'd turn around in 24 hrs. Fingers crossed they make it onto the plane before everyone goes home!

AllPcb: No dice.  Reportedly, their machines went "down for maintenance" at the last minute.  Order was refunded.  The story is longer, but suffice it to say they lived up (i.e., down) to expectations as the absolute cheapest solution possible.

WellPcb: AllPcb's job was actually to serve as an inexpensive hedge against the possibility that WellPcb would drop the ball on my order.  As it turned out, the boards from WellPcb shipped in time for the CNY cutoff.  They look great.

[mrpackethead]

At the price of PCBs, you coudl probably order from two companys in the hope that one does a great job.    I dont' think that they udnerstand the 'cost' in PCB's is not what they charge me.  The cost of pcbs ( espec prototype ones, ) is when they dnt' arrive when they need to, or are not up to spec.

Whats annoying is that i've actually had really good quality from Allpcb.  I do lots of 4 layer boards and they have done a great job qualiyt wise.  The problems always been around logistics, payment, freight, generally being organised.

[KE5FX]

Right, that's what I meant -- I was nervous about the upcoming holiday so I ordered the same boards from both.

I just wish someone in the US would try to compete with these guys in the prototyping sector.  I would probably pay 2x the typical Shenzhen pricing for a reliable US-based vendor with modern capabilities and a working website. 

The trouble is, US-based companies want more like 5x the Chinese pricing.  They also bitch, moan, and upcharge liberally if I use design rules that were common industry practice 10+ years ago.  At that point it's impossible to avoid feeling like I'm being robbed. 

[l0wside]

Depending on the size of your board, you might want to try OSH Park.

[KE5FX]

Depending on the size of your board, you might want to try OSH Park.

I've used them before, back when they were called BatchPCB.  They work well, but the delivery times for any sort of batching service are often prohibitive for professional work.  Especially when you're talking 4+ layer boards.  When I was using BatchPCB, it sometimes took more than 30 days for them to get enough orders to do a 4-layer panel. 

More recently I've dealt with OSH Stencils, but I'm not sure if they're affiliated.  Very good quality and pricing, I definitely recommend those guys.

[mrpackethead]

Depending on the size of your board, you might want to try OSH Park.

Found the quality ot be pretty marginal.

[janoc]

Depending on the size of your board, you might want to try OSH Park.

Found the quality ot be pretty marginal.

OSH Park? That's the first time I hear someone complaining about their quality - they are quite a bit above the cheap Chinese fabs. What problems did you have?

[mrpackethead]

Mask registration was well off.

[NorthGuy]

Mask registration was well off.

Never had this problem with them. Can you post a picture?

[mrpackethead]

Mask registration was well off.

Never had this problem with them. Can you post a picture?

Was quite some time ago, dont' have them any longer. Was a prototype board, will be long gone from being around here.

One of the issues when your testing out new fabs is that if you are 'unlucky' and get a bad result from them. is that your perception of them is that its crap.  You might be unlucky and be the 1 in 100 that was problematic.     But your 'sucess' rate was 0%.